Bye, bye Nebraska and Coalition... Hello Rose Bowl.

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Emerson Wilson

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.

Can you say OVERRATED?

I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have
referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?

If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is not
nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but beating a
ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.

Also evident is the fact that the Big-12 is the MOST OVERRATED CONFERENCE IN
COLLEGE FOOTBALL. From Nebraska to Colorado to Texas to Texas A&M, the
conference has lost games against very strong teams like Michigan and Notre
Dame, up and coming teams like Arizona State, and absolutely pathetic teams
like Southwest Louisiana University. Because of this failure, the Big-12 is,
in my opinion, insignificant as far as the national championship is concerned.
I mean, if you can't beat anyone outside of your own conference, you obviously
aren't the best.

Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU
team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.

Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really
nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
alliance and play for the national championship someday...


go...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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Far too early in the season to be talking this way.........

Gov

Robert Gretta

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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Emerson Wilson (wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
> What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
> everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.

> Can you say OVERRATED?

> I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have
> referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?

drugs.

<snip>

> Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
> football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU
> team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
> undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.

It wouldn't matter.

> Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really
> nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
> alliance and play for the national championship someday...

<snicker>

Everybody's a comedian. What was the combined total of big10 and pac10
bowl victories last year? Or the year before. or the year before....

Jeff Smith

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <523pme$d...@natinst.com>, rob...@natinst.com (Robert Gretta) wrote:
<Snip>

> Everybody's a comedian. What was the combined total of big10 and pac10
> bowl victories last year? Or the year before. or the year before....

While the Big Te(leve)n went a dismal 2-4 in bowls this past season, I'm
fairly sure we did quite well the season before that...

*****************************************************************
Jeff Smith Fight On State!
jrs...@email.psu.edu Fight On State!...
GO STATE! BEAT THE BADGERS! ...Roar, Lions, Roar!...

Scott McCartney

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Emerson Wilson) writes:

>What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
>everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.

>Can you say OVERRATED?

Well emerson its good to see you are a good enough man to not gloat like
you hacked on the NU fans for after tOSU's annual michigan choke.
Don't worry, Iowa started the Big 10 choking tonight, by losing to
Tulsa.

>I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have
>referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?

>If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is not

>nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but beating a
>ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.

>Also evident is the fact that the Big-12 is the MOST OVERRATED CONFERENCE IN
>COLLEGE FOOTBALL. From Nebraska to Colorado to Texas to Texas A&M, the
>conference has lost games against very strong teams like Michigan and Notre
>Dame, up and coming teams like Arizona State, and absolutely pathetic teams
>like Southwest Louisiana University. Because of this failure, the Big-12 is,
>in my opinion, insignificant as far as the national championship is concerned.

This year perhaps. Of course NU is still rated 7th in the coaches poll
after the loss. And with all the teams ranked above them having to play
each other in some combination, who knows? could be chaotic '93 type
think all over again.

>I mean, if you can't beat anyone outside of your own conference, you obviously
>aren't the best.

>Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college

I definately see why tOSU should be included. Man Rice and Pitt are just
the cat's meow. You guys have the audacity to make fun of NU's schedule.
sheesh.

>football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU

>team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
>undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.

Doubtful. The Big 10 and Pac 10 teams always seem to find a way to blow
it. Both rose blow teams will not be undefeated before the game.

>Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really

Of course you are forgetting about a couple of teams from Florida ranked
1 and 2 right now aren't you?

>nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
>alliance and play for the national championship someday...

All sniping aside, this is going to be an interesting year to see who wins
the MNC. With the PSU-tOSU-Mich round robin, at most one team survives
ASU might survive the Pac 10, but I think it will probably be hard for
them to duplicate the emotion they played with, particularly on the road.
UF-FSU are probably headed for a 1 vs 2 collision course, if FSU can
beat North Carolina and Miami, probably the only realistic teams they face
till UF.

After the Domers play tOSU, they'll probably roll as well. The ND-tOSU
game will probably decide if the Rose Bowl has an undefeated Big 10 team--
I think tOSU is the best big 10 team, and will beat Mich and PSU. If
ND wins, the alliance will decide the MNC, business as usual. If tOSU
can finally win a big game, then a '94 type of situation will probably
result--a tOSU vs UF-FSU war. My guess is the pollsters will favor
the UF-FSU cluster, because of the Wuerfel Hiesman talk and the perenial
top 5 finishes by FSU.


Jim Shiely

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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Scott McCartney wrote:
>
> All sniping aside, this is going to be an interesting year to see who wins
> the MNC. With the PSU-tOSU-Mich round robin, at most one team survives
> ASU might survive the Pac 10, but I think it will probably be hard for
> them to duplicate the emotion they played with, particularly on the road.
> UF-FSU are probably headed for a 1 vs 2 collision course, if FSU can
> beat North Carolina and Miami, probably the only realistic teams they face
> till UF.
>
> After the Domers play tOSU, they'll probably roll as well. The ND-tOSU
> game will probably decide if the Rose Bowl has an undefeated Big 10 team--
> I think tOSU is the best big 10 team, and will beat Mich and PSU. If
> ND wins, the alliance will decide the MNC, business as usual. If tOSU
> can finally win a big game, then a '94 type of situation will probably
> result--a tOSU vs UF-FSU war. My guess is the pollsters will favor
> the UF-FSU cluster, because of the Wuerfel Hiesman talk and the perenial
> top 5 finishes by FSU.

Hmm. So, while its way too early to justify any MNC discussions, is
there a consensus that the current favorite matchup for the bowl
coalition
folks is ND vs. the winner of UF-FSU?

How about Miami-UF or ND-Miami. These would be magnificent,
historic contests for renewing old rivalries, even without the national
title ramifications.

Jim

Arthur Raymond Ream

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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Emerson Wilson (wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:

Hi, Emerson. I was surprised it took me so long to find your post. I
figured you'd be the first one on the net to gloat our loss. You
would have really loved being in Lincoln last night. Fraternity row
went apeshit about 1:15 while I was trying to sleep...

: What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above

: everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.
:
: Can you say OVERRATED?

:
: I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have

: referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?
:
: If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is not
: nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but beating a
: ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.

We got beat. ASU stuffed our running game and we can't win if we
can't run. Our defense did it's part, but they didn't play well
enough to win the game for us. They needed help from the offense and
special teams. The defense gave up very few points, but what they
needed to do was make ASU go 3 and out to get the ball back to the
offense. They didn't. ASU was able to pass against us. They
protected the QB against our usually monster pass rush. They were
able to RUN against us. Even though they didn't score, they kept the
ball and kept our offense off the field, preventing them from getting
it together.

Notice I didn't say that our defense "mistackled". I'm not talking
about the lenght of cleats the opponents wore. I'm not whining
and complaining about Ann Arbor, I mean Tempe. I'm not saying "our
team could STILL beat your team cause of all our player that are going
to play in the NFL someday". We got our asses whipped fair and
square, and there's no excuse for that.

: Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
: football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5.

Why am I not surprised.

: Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really
: nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl

: alliance and play for the national championship someday...

I'm really looking forward to your annual loss to Michigan. Will your
defense be mistackling again, or will Orlando Pace "just have a bad
day?" I'd also be tickled pink if an undefeated Penn State wastes the
pac-10 champ (probably ranked somewhere between #6 and #10) and STILL
end up #2 behind the winner of the Sugar Bowl. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
Death to the IYB! (Wouldn't it beat all if the irrelavant yawner was
a rematch between Penn State and USC?)

And Big Red isn't OUT of the MNC hunt, we've just fallen to the back
of the pack. Notre Dame will lose to OSU, OSU will lose to Michigan.
Miami will lose to FSU. That leaves Penn State (who hopefully will
lose to OSU, if they play?) and the winner of Florida/FSU as
undefeated. If our team gets its shit together, we can win the rest
of our games and be the highest ranked team with a loss. That would
put us in the Sugar Bowl against FU/FSU (please don't make us play
Bobby Bowden in a bowl game). We won't be able to pass an undefeated
Big-10, champ, though, so GO PAC-10!

Yes, the Huskers 3peating is now a long shot. I'm not holding my
breath. But it's early in the season, and anything could happen.
It'll be a long, interesting season. GO BIG RED!

Art Ream

Neil

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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On 22 Sep 1996, Arthur Raymond Ream wrote:

[snip]


> Yes, the Huskers 3peating is now a long shot. I'm not holding my
> breath. But it's early in the season, and anything could happen.
> It'll be a long, interesting season. GO BIG RED!

One emotional factor maybe Nebraska fans didn't realize existed: Nebraska
played ASU a year ago, and the final score was 77-28. Nebraska scored 63
points in the first half. ASU's head coach accused Nebraska of running up
the score, and regardless of whether or not they did, the perception
around here has been that they did.

The players you watched stuffing the Nebraska rushing game were the same
ones who were on that team last year. For an entire year, Coach Snyder
didn't let them forget what happened last year. We all know the results of
that strategy.

GO DEVILS!

Neil
Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A.


Jeff Smith

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <523ugg$7...@crcnis3.unl.edu>, 0004...@bigred.unl.edu (Arthur Raymond Ream) wrote:
<Snip>

>I'd also be tickled pink if an undefeated Penn State wastes the
>pac-10 champ (probably ranked somewhere between #6 and #10) and STILL
>end up #2 behind the winner of the Sugar Bowl. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
>Death to the IYB! (Wouldn't it beat all if the irrelavant yawner was
>a rematch between Penn State and USC?)

How 'bout an undefeated Sun Devil - Husker killing squad versus an
undefeated Big Te(leve)n Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State squad? This
would make for quite an interesting matchup. As I see it, the Sun Devils have
only one BIG hurdle left <Besides their in-state rivalry...> in Southern Cal,
and that game is at -you guessed it- Sun Devil Stadium. I'd imagine those Sun
Devil fans are real wound up right now! ;)

>And Big Red isn't OUT of the MNC hunt, we've just fallen to the back
>of the pack. Notre Dame will lose to OSU, OSU will lose to Michigan.
>Miami will lose to FSU. That leaves Penn State (who hopefully will
>lose to OSU, if they play?)

<Snip>

Still insecure over that '94 NC, I see. ;) I wouldn't count out Notre
Dame based upon the Buckeyes blowouts as Ohio State has only played Rice and
Pitt to date. The Buckeyes DO look great, though.
FYI, the Nittany Lions travel to the 'Shoe on October 5, following the
Penn State at Wisconsin and Ohio State at Notre Dame matchups.

On an interesting side note, the Lions won their 699th football game
yesterday. Considering how much trouble the Huskers had this past weekend
attempting to break the mystic 700 win mark, I must admit a bit of concern
about traveling to Camp Randall this coming weekend... ;)

Emerson Wilson

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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><Snip>
>> Everybody's a comedian. What was the combined total of big10 and pac10
>> bowl victories last year? Or the year before. or the year before....

> While the Big Te(leve)n went a dismal 2-4 in bowls this past season, I'm
>fairly sure we did quite well the season before that...

6-1 the year before last.

Emerson Wilson

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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>Emerson Wilson (wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:

>Hi, Emerson. I was surprised it took me so long to find your post. I
>figured you'd be the first one on the net to gloat our loss. You
>would have really loved being in Lincoln last night. Fraternity row
>went apeshit about 1:15 while I was trying to sleep...

Well, after 2-3 years of Nebraska gloating over their football prowess, last
night was very special for me, yes...

>: If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is
not >: nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but
beating a >: ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.

>Notice I didn't say that our defense "mistackled". I'm not talking
>about the lenght of cleats the opponents wore. I'm not whining
>and complaining about Ann Arbor, I mean Tempe. I'm not saying "our
>team could STILL beat your team cause of all our player that are going
>to play in the NFL someday". We got our asses whipped fair and
>square, and there's no excuse for that.

1) It's much easier to be a good sport - like you are trying to be - after you
have won back to back national championships.

2) It's much harder to be a good sport when you hear that the other team wore
extra length cleats in extremely poor conditions while in a very close game.

3) It's - ahhhh, drop it...

>: Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
>: football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5.

>Why am I not surprised.

The Big-Ten is tough this year.


>And Big Red isn't OUT of the MNC hunt, we've just fallen to the back
>of the pack. Notre Dame will lose to OSU, OSU will lose to Michigan.

I don't see Ohio State losing to Michigan this year. Michigan's offense is
not that great, and it's at the horseshoe. I think the toughest game will be
at Notre Dame. PSU at home will be tough, too. But, it should be somewhat
easier than playing in South Bend.

>Miami will lose to FSU. That leaves Penn State (who hopefully will

>lose to OSU, if they play?) and the winner of Florida/FSU as
>undefeated. If our team gets its shit together, we can win the rest
>of our games and be the highest ranked team with a loss. That would
>put us in the Sugar Bowl against FU/FSU (please don't make us play
>Bobby Bowden in a bowl game). We won't be able to pass an undefeated
>Big-10, champ, though, so GO PAC-10!

The situation should be cleared up a bit more in 2 weeks after Ohio State has
played ND and PSU.

Let's talk then.

Emerson Wilson

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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>wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Emerson Wilson) writes:

>>What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
>>everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.

>>Can you say OVERRATED?

>Well emerson its good to see you are a good enough man to not gloat like


>you hacked on the NU fans for after tOSU's annual michigan choke.
>Don't worry, Iowa started the Big 10 choking tonight, by losing to
>Tulsa.

Sorry, buddy. This was something coming to every Nebraska fan for 2-3 years
now. It will be my only gloat, though.


>>Also evident is the fact that the Big-12 is the MOST OVERRATED CONFERENCE IN
>>COLLEGE FOOTBALL. From Nebraska to Colorado to Texas to Texas A&M, the
>>conference has lost games against very strong teams like Michigan and Notre
>>Dame, up and coming teams like Arizona State, and absolutely pathetic teams
>>like Southwest Louisiana University. Because of this failure, the Big-12 is,
>>in my opinion, insignificant as far as the national championship is concerned.

>This year perhaps. Of course NU is still rated 7th in the coaches poll
>after the loss. And with all the teams ranked above them having to play
>each other in some combination, who knows? could be chaotic '93 type
>think all over again.

I agree. It is a bit early yet. Things will straighten out after #5ND vs.
#4OSU this weekend and #3PSU vs. #4OSU next weekend.

If: 1) ND beats Ohio State, they will be the favorites to go undefeated and
into the Sugar Bowl, 2) OSU beats ND and loses to PSU, it will set up a HUGE
match-up between Penn State and Michigan, 3) OSU beats ND and PSU, it will set
up a potentially HUGE, HUGE, HUGE match-up between OSU and UM, provided that
UM can beat PSU.

Basically, the Rose Bowl NC game depends a great deal on OSU beating ND this
next weekend.

It is a BIG game not only for the teams and their conferences but also for the
status of the Rose Bowl and the Bowl Coalition.

>>I mean, if you can't beat anyone outside of your own conference, you obviously
>>aren't the best.

>>Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college

>I definately see why tOSU should be included. Man Rice and Pitt are just


>the cat's meow. You guys have the audacity to make fun of NU's schedule.
>sheesh.

Ummm, unlike Nebraska from a year ago, Ohio State plays #5 ND next weekend at
South Bend while still in their out of conference schedule.

I do admit that Ohio State has only proved that they can kill pansy football
teams - but then again, who has FSU beaten to be ranked #2 in the nation:

Duke
North Carolina State

Your point was???

>>football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU

>>team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
>>undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.

>Doubtful. The Big 10 and Pac 10 teams always seem to find a way to blow
>it. Both rose blow teams will not be undefeated before the game.

We'll see. The odds are much better than in the coalition.

>>Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really

>Of course you are forgetting about a couple of teams from Florida ranked


>1 and 2 right now aren't you?

Who eventually play each other...

>>nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
>>alliance and play for the national championship someday...

>After the Domers play tOSU, they'll probably roll as well. The ND-tOSU
>game will probably decide if the Rose Bowl has an undefeated Big 10 team--
>I think tOSU is the best big 10 team, and will beat Mich and PSU. If
>ND wins, the alliance will decide the MNC, business as usual. If tOSU
>can finally win a big game, then a '94 type of situation will probably
>result--a tOSU vs UF-FSU war. My guess is the pollsters will favor
>the UF-FSU cluster, because of the Wuerfel Hiesman talk and the perenial
>top 5 finishes by FSU.

I agree with what you said about the ND game.

But, if there is a similar situation to '94, the NC will be split. The
pollsters just don't want another confrontation like that.


Yvonne Lee

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <52450s$1o...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, jrs...@email.psu.edu (Jeff
Smith) wrote:

> In article <523ugg$7...@crcnis3.unl.edu>, 0004...@bigred.unl.edu (Arthur
Raymond Ream) wrote:
> <Snip>
> >I'd also be tickled pink if an undefeated Penn State wastes the
> >pac-10 champ (probably ranked somewhere between #6 and #10) and STILL
> >end up #2 behind the winner of the Sugar Bowl. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
> >Death to the IYB! (Wouldn't it beat all if the irrelavant yawner was
> >a rematch between Penn State and USC?)
>
> How 'bout an undefeated Sun Devil - Husker killing squad versus an
> undefeated Big Te(leve)n Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State squad? This
> would make for quite an interesting matchup. As I see it, the Sun
Devils have
> only one BIG hurdle left <Besides their in-state rivalry...> in Southern Cal,
> and that game is at -you guessed it- Sun Devil Stadium. I'd imagine
those Sun
> Devil fans are real wound up right now! ;)
>

No way! ASU's biggest hurdle is Oregon next week.

ASU has a good team, and could very well go undefeated, but at the same
time, a lot of what the team did last night was with heart. It's hard to
get up to back-to-back tough games. Beating Oregon next week will be
harder to do than beating USC down the road if they're still undefeated.

I'm not trying to take anything at all away from ASU. They had to be a
good team to win last night. Now, the mammoth task is making sure the
team stays focused for next week.

Bonehead

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.96092...@general2.asu.edu>,
Neil <ne...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote:

[snip]

Cool, I've wanted to ask an ASU fan this: who chose those butt ugly school
colors for you? I think I'd rather have barf orange and Purina dog chow
endzones to that awful crap your team was wearing last night.

--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu

Neil

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:

> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.

You're right, butthead. After Nebraska fell to ASU last night, I applied
for, was admitted to, and registered for classes at that very school by 5
am this morning. Phew! Finally, I have a school to be proud of. [major eye
rolling here]

Bonehead

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.96092...@general5.asu.edu>, Neil
<ne...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote:

}On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:
}
}> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.
}
}You're right, butthead. After Nebraska fell to ASU last night, I applied
}for, was admitted to, and registered for classes at that very school by 5
}am this morning. Phew! Finally, I have a school to be proud of. [major eye
}rolling here]

Hint: when did you first post here?

--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu

Bonehead

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <524n9r$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, me...@chem.psu.edu (Scot
Mente) wrote:

}: }On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:
}: }
}: }> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.

}: }
}
}In article <dylan-22099...@news.tamu.edu> you wrote:
}: Hint: when did you first post here?
} ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
}
}OOOOHHHHH!!! The RSFC good-ole'boy club rears its ugly head. Shouldn't
it read
}"Hint: how many times a day do you post here?"

No, I'm just looking for a sign you're a real fan. The (apparent) fact
you didn't post when ASU didn't look really good isn't exactly a sign
in your favor.

Newbies who crawl out of the woodwork when their team does well and then
dissappear when they lose are always to be loathed and despised. Your
entrance doesn't look real promising thus far; don't pull a quick fade
when ASU starts looking really bad, and we'll talk.

--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu

Charles John Mace

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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In article <524n9r$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>,

Scot Mente <me...@chem.psu.edu> wrote:
>OOOOHHHHH!!! The RSFC good-ole'boy club rears its ugly head. Shouldn't it read
>"Hint: how many times a day do you post here?" That way the same 20 geeks
>can pretend they chartered the group.

>I suppose I should brace my .killfile for the ensuing thread about newbies.

>Scot Mente
>me...@chem.psu.edu

Well, you got a couple of things going for you:
1) Your email address not contain aol.
2) Your email address does not include psuvm.
3) You never made the claim that Clemson has a 99.97% chance of winning
the MNC.

cmuck

Laaaaaaazzz!!!

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Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
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On 22 Sep 1996, Charles John Mace wrote:
> Well, you got a couple of things going for you:
> 1) Your email address not contain aol.
> 2) Your email address does not include psuvm.

Hey, nobody uses /psuvm/ much anymore... it's psu.edu now!

> 3) You never made the claim that Clemson has a 99.97% chance of winning
> the MNC.

-Lazaros T. Volikas Go Nittany Lions!
LTV...@cac.psu.edu
LTV...@psuvm.psu.edu
sp...@psu.edu URL: http://cac.psu.edu/~ltv100


Neil

unread,
Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
to

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bonehead wrote:

> Hint: when did you first post here?

Ohhhh so THAT'S what all this is about! Those who don't post here, simply
do not exist as fans, correct? You're entitled to that belief. I came here
specifically to seek out and annoy Nebraska fans, very many of whom had
annoyed the HELL out of me here in the real world (that lady on the news
sticks out in my mind the most, when she said "It's going to be a saaad
day for ASU, Arizona!"). I must say that they're on-line fans are not
annoying at all, by the way.

Of course, for those of you (one in particular ;)) who know my sports
past, I could be the source of even more controversy, but I'll let the
rest of you wonder what the hell I'm talking about for a while, and see
how civilized you really are about this affair.

Neil

unread,
Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
to

On 23 Sep 1996, Steve Casburn wrote:

> I doubt that Trent's (or Dylan's) complaint was that "Neil" is a new
> poster. It's that his first post(s) to r.s.f.c.:
>
> 1) Came immediately after a huge win for his team.
> 2) Contained a lot of taunting of Nebraska.

Well, I have to say that I understand exactly what you are saying, Steve,
and others. Fairweather fans are the most annoying species of human beings
God cursed us by putting on this earth. Every time I see someone walking
around with a spanking new Dallas Cowboys jersey, for example, it takes
everything I have to not throw up all over the floor. (We won't even talk
about Notre Dame and Michigan)

But as for this situation: what can I say? Do you know how long I've
cheered for ASU? Do you know whether or not I was excited about this game
before I posted here? Of course not. The only thing you do know is that it
hadn't occurred to me to find and post to r.s.f.c. until after the
Nebraska game. Since it seems so important to some people, I'll admit that
it DIDN'T occur to me until I had this sudden urge to vent against
Nebraska fans, and I realized that Usenet would be the perfect place to do
so. Does this mean that before the Nebraska game, I had no interest in ASU
whatsoever, and that I wasn't taunting the many UofA (ASU's rivals, and my
former classmates FYI) fans who were giving ME crap about this game? Not
as far you know, it doesn't.

You mentioned OSU fans who flooded the newsgroup when they beat Notre
Dame:

> I remember how embarassed I was last year when r.s.f.c. was flooded
> by tOSU "fans" after tOSU beat Notre Dame -- people saying things like
> "OHIO STATE R00LZ" and "NOTRE LAME SUCKS". It's not that I don't want new
> people from Ohio State posting here about our team (by my count, there are
> only four tOSU fans posting right now -- I *want* newbies to come in),
> it's that if they were real fans, they would be here talking about their
> team when times suck as well as when times are good. None of those post-ND
> "fans" were anywhere to be seen after we lost to Michigan and Tennessee. I
> expect that they'll show up again if we beat Notre Dame Saturday. And I'll
> be embarassed all over again (of course, I'm willing to pay that price for
> an Ohio State victory :-) ).

Sorry bud, but I don't quite agree with your opinion of what a "true fan"
is. A "true fan" is a person who believes in his team whether it's good or
bad. A "true fan" is NOT (as you are saying above) a person who has
Internet access, and posts regularly to some Usenet newsgroup on a regular
basis to let Steve C. or John B. at aol.com or bubba.edu know that he is a
"true fan". I sincerely hope the rest of your life doesn't revolve around
this newsgroup the way you seem to be indicating it does.

> As far as there being a "good ol' boy" club in r.s.f.c. -- so what?
> One of the newbie netiquette guides (which are posted regularly to
> news.announce.newusers and that *everyone* should read before posting for
> the first time) gives this good advice:

As far as someone not posting on some newsgroup that he hadn't even heard
of 24 hours ago -- so what?

> | Be familiar with the group you are posting to before you post! You
> | shouldn't post to groups you do not read, or post to groups you've
> | only read a few articles from -- you may not be familiar with the on-going
> | conventions and themes of the group. One normally does not join
> | a conversation by just walking up and talking. Instead, you listen
> | first and then join in if you have something pertinent to contribute.
>
>
> Why should people who have posted here for years about their teams,
> who know and respect each other, and who have developed their own rituals
> have to give up all that to make win-drunk newbies happy?

They're not giving anything up. This is a public forum. If it makes you
unhappy to see someone from ASU post here directly after the biggest win
they've had this decade, too freakin' bad. You know nothing about me, you
know nothing about my personality, you know nothing about my team loyalty.
I'll post here when I want, cheer for whomever I want to cheer for, and
communicate with whichever sensible and more friendly people there are out
there about college football when I want. And if I get bored and decide
not to post here, I'll do that too. Wow! Imagine that!

Now, I believe this newsgroup was created in order for people to
electronically shoot the breeze about college football, so why don't you
do just that? Personally, I'm looking forward to next week's Oregon game
to see if ASU defeated Nebraska with its skill, or its emotion.

Neil

unread,
Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
to

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bonehead wrote:

> No, I'm just looking for a sign you're a real fan. The (apparent) fact
> you didn't post when ASU didn't look really good isn't exactly a sign
> in your favor.

Uh, no. It isn't a sign in my favour in YOUR Internet-dependent opinion.
I've been a rabid Montreal Expos fan for my entire life, but how many of
my posts will you find on rec.sport.baseball-mtl-expos (or whatever it's
called)? Zero.

> Newbies who crawl out of the woodwork when their team does well and then
> dissappear when they lose are always to be loathed and despised. Your
> entrance doesn't look real promising thus far; don't pull a quick fade
> when ASU starts looking really bad, and we'll talk.

My loyalty to ASU (or my country, or my religion, or my girlfriend, or my
family) doesn't vary according to how many posts I send to a Usenet group.
Sorry I don't fit your bizarre standards of what a "true fan" is (there
are only about 50 or so of them in this entire country, according to your
logic), but if you don't want to hear what I have to say, killfile me.
Please.

And thanks for the wonderful welcome. I feel like Pat Buchanan after
stumbling into an NAACP meeting.

Gregory Jackson

unread,
Sep 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/22/96
to

> On 23 Sep 1996, Steve Casburn wrote:

> Well, I have to say that I understand exactly what you are saying, Steve,
> and others. Fairweather fans are the most annoying species of human beings

Ha Ha...

Ok, I never heard of ASU but I love them...Roll Tide or whatever...They
*did* beat the Huskers...


> God cursed us by putting on this earth. Every time I see someone walking
> around with a spanking new Dallas Cowboys jersey, for example, it takes
> everything I have to not throw up all over the floor.

Well sales may suffer after this year...

(We won't even talk
> about Notre Dame and Michigan)

All they sell besides SEC crap around here is Michigan and Notre Dame stuff...
(That will light up my mailbox...)


To the tell the truth, I did not care about ASU until the third qtr....

I am happy about the game because now people will not think it a foregone
conclusion that Neb. will win it all this year...

Have a good one,

Greg

GO BLAZERS!

Trent Woodruff

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

>Neil was cut from Rice for saying...

>GO DEVILS!

>Neil
>Arizona State University
>Tempe, Arizona, U.S.A.

The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.


(And then squeeze the life out of them...)

Arthur Raymond Ream

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

Emerson Wilson (wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:

: Well, after 2-3 years of Nebraska gloating over their football prowess, last
: night was very special for me, yes...

Kind of like a win over Miami to break a 7 bowl game losing streak?
We had to let it out. You'll feel that way when you finally beat
Michigan in Ann Arbor.

: 1) It's much easier to be a good sport - like you are trying to be - after you

: have won back to back national championships.

I suppose so. During our bowl losing streak, Husker fans moaned about
having to play Miami in it's home stadium. Although Miami's refusal
to play bowl games on neutral fields was annoying, I realize in
hindsight we had no chance of winning those bowl games no matter where
they were played. At the time, however...

: 2) It's much harder to be a good sport when you hear that the other team wore

: extra length cleats in extremely poor conditions while in a very close game.

I rest my case.

Art Ream

Scot Mente

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

: }On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:
: }
: }> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.
: }


In article <dylan-22099...@news.tamu.edu> you wrote:
: Hint: when did you first post here?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


OOOOHHHHH!!! The RSFC good-ole'boy club rears its ugly head. Shouldn't it read
"Hint: how many times a day do you post here?" That way the same 20 geeks
can pretend they chartered the group.

I suppose I should brace my .killfile for the ensuing thread about newbies.

--
Scot Mente
me...@chem.psu.edu
http://xeno.chem.psu.edu/~mente
Go Pads!!

Vijay Ramanujan

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <wilson.185....@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> Emerson
Wilson, wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:
>Basically, the Rose Bowl NC game depends a great deal on OSU beating ND this
>next weekend.

Well, greatly but not entirely.
First off, Notre Dame has to beat Washington the next week and USC at USC
in the finale to be in a national championship game. I think they will,
but its no guarantee.
Secondly, because of the idiotic way in which the order of games affects
pollsters, it is possible that an undefeated Michigan team would be
ranked ahead of an undefeated Notre Dame team.

If both teams stay undefeated, Notre Dame will put distance between
itself and Michigan with wins over OSU and Washington while Michigan
beats USC and Northwestern. But, a Michigan win over an undefeated PSU
team on November 16 (coupled with a Notre Dame win over Pitt) could
narrow the gap. The next week, a Michigan win over twice defeated OSU
(coupled with a Notre Dame win over Rutgers) could push Michigan over the
top. It would be up to Notre Dame to beat USC convincingly enough to
reverse the order yet again.

PSU would have less luck, however, as their last game of the season is
against a lesser opponent (MSU) and would give them little chance of
bounding past Notre Dame.

Two non Big-Ten game very crucial to the chances of the Rose Bowl
featuring a national championship game or contender will be, in my
opinion, Virginia at FSU (10/26) and Florida at FSU (11/30). A split
decision from FSU would be helpful.

Vijay R.

Steve Casburn

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <524n9r$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, me...@chem.psu.edu (Scot
Mente) wrote:
>
> Dylan Alexander:
>
> : } Trent Woodruff:

>
> : }> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.
> : }
>
> : Hint: when did you first post here?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> OOOOHHHHH!!! The RSFC good-ole'boy club rears its ugly head. Shouldn't
> it read "Hint: how many times a day do you post here?" That way the same
> 20 geeks can pretend they chartered the group.
>
> I suppose I should brace my .killfile for the ensuing thread about newbies.

I doubt that Trent's (or Dylan's) complaint was that "Neil" is a new


poster. It's that his first post(s) to r.s.f.c.:

1) Came immediately after a huge win for his team.
2) Contained a lot of taunting of Nebraska.

I remember how embarassed I was last year when r.s.f.c. was flooded


by tOSU "fans" after tOSU beat Notre Dame -- people saying things like
"OHIO STATE R00LZ" and "NOTRE LAME SUCKS". It's not that I don't want new
people from Ohio State posting here about our team (by my count, there are
only four tOSU fans posting right now -- I *want* newbies to come in),
it's that if they were real fans, they would be here talking about their
team when times suck as well as when times are good. None of those post-ND
"fans" were anywhere to be seen after we lost to Michigan and Tennessee. I
expect that they'll show up again if we beat Notre Dame Saturday. And I'll
be embarassed all over again (of course, I'm willing to pay that price for
an Ohio State victory :-) ).

As far as there being a "good ol' boy" club in r.s.f.c. -- so what?


One of the newbie netiquette guides (which are posted regularly to
news.announce.newusers and that *everyone* should read before posting for
the first time) gives this good advice:

| Be familiar with the group you are posting to before you post! You
| shouldn't post to groups you do not read, or post to groups you've
| only read a few articles from -- you may not be familiar with the on-going
| conventions and themes of the group. One normally does not join
| a conversation by just walking up and talking. Instead, you listen
| first and then join in if you have something pertinent to contribute.


Why should people who have posted here for years about their teams,
who know and respect each other, and who have developed their own rituals
have to give up all that to make win-drunk newbies happy?

Steve

--
Steve Casburn (Casb...@osu.edu)
"The irresistible is often only that which is not
resisted."
-- Louis Brandeis

Vijay Ramanujan

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to
>I don't see Ohio State losing to Michigan this year. Michigan's offense is
>not that great, and it's at the horseshoe. I think the toughest game will be
>at Notre Dame. PSU at home will be tough, too. But, it should be somewhat
>easier than playing in South Bend.

Michigan's offense has also only played 3 games as a unit.
Dreisbach and Williams are 2nd year. Shaw and Street are 1st year. That's
4 of the 5 most important skill players for Michigan (Tuman is the other,
I don't know what year he is). Despite the low point output against BC,
the team did get 400+ yards. By the end of the year (when they play OSU)
the offense should be much improved over what it is right now.

Vijay R.

Trent Woodruff

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

>Bonehead was cut from Rice for saying...
>>>On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:

>>> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.

>>You're right, butthead. After Nebraska fell to ASU last night, I applied


>>for, was admitted to, and registered for classes at that very school by 5
>>am this morning. Phew! Finally, I have a school to be proud of. [major eye
>>rolling here]

>Hint: when did you first post here?

It's sad when you have to explain these things, isn't it? <sigh>


Chris Stassen

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

sc...@phyast.nhn.uoknor.edu (Scott McCartney) wrote:
> Well emerson its good to see you are a good enough man to not gloat like
> you hacked on the NU fans for after tOSU's annual michigan choke.

Now, now, Scott... don't take it personally; I doubt that you were
among the intended targets. Emerson goes a little overboard, and so
once again -- just like those NU fans he despises -- he has asked to
be made a target in the wake of his favorite team's next loss.
("Choose your enemies carefully, for you will become just like them.")
Enmerson's timing is rather risky, for that could happen in five days.

Still, it's hard to be quiet when such "convenient" game results
follow nine months of classlessness exhibited by a few Big XII
noisemakers. I recall some forgettable sap grouping the Big Ten and
Pac-10 into the "sad 21" or some such, and yammering on about how
irrelevant they always were to the national title. I recall a lot of
yapping about how Colorado, "only the second-best Big Twelve team,"
would win the Big Ten (or just about any other conference), easily.

In the wake of such commentary, it is pretty ironic that a Big Ten
team and a Pac-10 team (neither one a preseason favorite to win their
own conference) significantly altered the MNC landscape by beating the
two Big Twelve teams that were supposed to be head-and-shoulders
above everyone else.

Were these game results flukes? Maybe. But I only see a handful of
postings dissing the Big XII so far. Is that really more than the
amount of yapping we'd have seen from _your_ (generic) side of the
fence if the Big Twelve _hadn't_ fallen on their collective faces in
such spectacular fashion? (Judging by offseason traffic, I doubt it.)

> I definately see why tOSU should be included. Man Rice and Pitt are just
> the cat's meow. You guys have the audacity to make fun of NU's schedule.

No doubt, Ohio State has yet to prove themselves... but I think we'll
have a good calibration in two weeks (against consecutive top five
opponents).

BTW, you "conveniently" neglected to mention Ohio State's final non-
conference opponent -- Notre Dame. Can you name a Big Twelve team that
has a top five non-conf opponent this year? Do you remember the last
year when Nebraska had one? Even though this schedule is light by OSU's
standards, the sad thing is that it's still better than at least four
of the six upper-echelon Big XII teams' non-conference slates.

--
Chris Stassen ch...@stassen.com
http://www.nextek.net/stassen/ 614-366-9628


Bonehead

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960922...@general4.asu.edu>,
Neil <ne...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote:

}On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bonehead wrote:
}

}> Hint: when did you first post here?
}

}Ohhhh so THAT'S what all this is about! Those who don't post here, simply
}do not exist as fans, correct?

No, but when you start posting right after a big win, it makes it quite
likely you're a bandwagon fan, worthy of scorn and derision.

--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu

Bryan W. Johnson

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

Jeff Smith (jrs...@email.psu.edu) wrote:

: How 'bout an undefeated Sun Devil - Husker killing squad versus an

: undefeated Big Te(leve)n Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State squad? This
: would make for quite an interesting matchup. As I see it, the Sun Devils have
: only one BIG hurdle left <Besides their in-state rivalry...> in Southern Cal,
: and that game is at -you guessed it- Sun Devil Stadium. I'd imagine those Sun
: Devil fans are real wound up right now! ;)

I really think our biggest game will be at Arizona. Sure,
USC will be tough, but UofA has had our number for a while.
If we get the fan support that we had against Nebraska, no
team will be able to beat us at home. I'd love to see a
Rose Bowl game that could have affect the championship.

[[========================================================================]]
[[ Bryan Johnson http://public.eas.asu.edu/~johnson/ ]]
[[ Chemical Engineering Arizona State University ]]
[[ "To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no ]]
[[ choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey ]]
[[========================================================================]]


Scott McCartney

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Emerson Wilson) writes:

>I do admit that Ohio State has only proved that they can kill pansy football
>teams - but then again, who has FSU beaten to be ranked #2 in the nation:

>Duke
>North Carolina State

Yes, but I think pollsters like FSU because of their ability to generally
deliver when the big game comes around-what are they at 10 bowl wins in a
row. Other than PSU, the Big 10 has had problems (similar to NU's bowl
losing streak) in winning bowls over good teams lately. Many pollsters
(despite the illogic of it) still don't consider PSU a 'true' Big 10
team. This attitude will continue until the other Big 10 teams can get
a win over
a SEC or Big 12 team in a bowl. The Citrus bowl is the only real chance
for a bigtime matchup to take place. The last 2 years the SEC won the game.
The rest of the Big 10 wins have been in minor bowls.

The media has short memories on that account. A couple of big wins in
the bowl season (besides the Rose) will get the Big 10 back into a
real MNC hunt--whether the games really matter to the MNC or not is sort
of not relevant to how pollsters think. Also, Ohio State really needs to
win this weekend. A loss to the Dohmers will probably make the Big 10
get a lot of scorn.


>>Doubtful. The Big 10 and Pac 10 teams always seem to find a way to blow
>>it. Both rose blow teams will not be undefeated before the game.

>We'll see. The odds are much better than in the coalition.

>>Of course you are forgetting about a couple of teams from Florida ranked
>>1 and 2 right now aren't you?

>Who eventually play each other...

What I wonder is who is going to stop a 1 vs 2 matchup. And, if Notre
Dame beats Ohio State, why ND vs the winner won't happen--shutting out the
Big 10 again. (I'm not saying its a given, just wondering who will do
the beating.)


>>After the Domers play tOSU, they'll probably roll as well. The ND-tOSU
>>game will probably decide if the Rose Bowl has an undefeated Big 10 team--
>>I think tOSU is the best big 10 team, and will beat Mich and PSU. If
>>ND wins, the alliance will decide the MNC, business as usual. If tOSU
>>can finally win a big game, then a '94 type of situation will probably
>>result--a tOSU vs UF-FSU war. My guess is the pollsters will favor
>>the UF-FSU cluster, because of the Wuerfel Hiesman talk and the perenial
>>top 5 finishes by FSU.

>I agree with what you said about the ND game.

Yes, at this point in the season it becomes the crucial game to see
if the Rose Bowl or the Sugar Bowl will decide things.

>But, if there is a similar situation to '94, the NC will be split. The
>pollsters just don't want another confrontation like that.

Who knows. I've long since given up trying to figure out the pollsters.

Steve Casburn

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to
> On 23 Sep 1996, Steve Casburn wrote:
>
> > I doubt that Trent's (or Dylan's) complaint was that "Neil" is a new
> > poster. It's that his first post(s) to r.s.f.c.:
> >
> > 1) Came immediately after a huge win for his team.
> > 2) Contained a lot of taunting of Nebraska.
>
> Well, I have to say that I understand exactly what you are saying, Steve,
> and others. Fairweather fans are the most annoying species of human beings
> God cursed us by putting on this earth. Every time I see someone walking
> around with a spanking new Dallas Cowboys jersey, for example, it takes
> everything I have to not throw up all over the floor.

As a SF Bay Area native in Ohio for the '89 World Series (Oakland
vs. San Francisco), I almost felt like I was at home... :-(


[...]


> You mentioned OSU fans who flooded the newsgroup when they beat Notre
> Dame:
>
> > I remember how embarassed I was last year when r.s.f.c. was flooded
> > by tOSU "fans" after tOSU beat Notre Dame -- people saying things like
> > "OHIO STATE R00LZ" and "NOTRE LAME SUCKS". It's not that I don't want new
> > people from Ohio State posting here about our team (by my count, there are
> > only four tOSU fans posting right now -- I *want* newbies to come in),
> > it's that if they were real fans, they would be here talking about their
> > team when times suck as well as when times are good. None of those post-ND
> > "fans" were anywhere to be seen after we lost to Michigan and Tennessee. I
> > expect that they'll show up again if we beat Notre Dame Saturday. And I'll
> > be embarassed all over again (of course, I'm willing to pay that price for
> > an Ohio State victory :-) ).
>
> Sorry bud, but I don't quite agree with your opinion of what a "true fan"
> is. A "true fan" is a person who believes in his team whether it's good or
> bad. A "true fan" is NOT (as you are saying above) a person who has

^^ ^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^


> Internet access, and posts regularly to some Usenet newsgroup on a regular
> basis to let Steve C. or John B. at aol.com or bubba.edu know that he is a
> "true fan".

I think you're misreading me.
My point is that if someone wants to post to r.s.f.c. to talk about
college football, then they're going to do it no matter how their team is
doing. Whenever Team A pulls a major upset over Team B, r.s.f.c. gets
visited by several "fans" of Team A who post 8-12 messages saying how
great Team A is and how badly Team B and its r.s.f.c. supporters suck.
Then those "fans" go away and never post again.
If you're not one of those "fans," then welcome to r.s.f.c. and I
hope you stay around! (We hadn't heard from anyone from ASU before
Saturday, so I have no idea what's up in Tempe.)


> I sincerely hope the rest of your life doesn't revolve around
> this newsgroup the way you seem to be indicating it does.

I am a fan of college football, and (especially as I am now w/o a
television) r.s.f.c. is one major way I find out what is going on in
non-tOSU programs. I don't know what things are like in Tempe, but in
Columbus almost every college football fan I know is a fan of the local
team. To hear from knowledgeable fans of other teams, I have to read
r.s.f.c. (or, as you mockingly wrote to someone else, I have to "sit in
front of my computer.")

[...]


> Now, I believe this newsgroup was created in order for people to
> electronically shoot the breeze about college football, so why don't you
> do just that? Personally, I'm looking forward to next week's Oregon game
> to see if ASU defeated Nebraska with its skill, or its emotion.

I think both. Since PSU exposed U$C's weaknesses, I've figured that
ASU was the most likely team to win the Pac-10. Fortunately for ASU, they
have Oregon at home, and I think the Sun Devils will at least squeak out a
close one.

Steve

After the way Snyder stuck Cal with Gilbertson, though, I'm kinda
hoping that the Bears ruin his dream season on November 9...

Scott Thompson

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

go...@worldnet.att.net wrote:

>
> Emerson Wilson wrote:
> >
> > What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
> > everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.
> >
> > Can you say OVERRATED?
> >
> > I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have
> > referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?

> >
> > If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is not
> > nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but beating a
> > ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.
> >
> > Also evident is the fact that the Big-12 is the MOST OVERRATED CONFERENCE IN
> > COLLEGE FOOTBALL. From Nebraska to Colorado to Texas to Texas A&M, the
> > conference has lost games against very strong teams like Michigan and Notre
> > Dame, up and coming teams like Arizona State, and absolutely pathetic teams
> > like Southwest Louisiana University. Because of this failure, the Big-12 is,
> > in my opinion, insignificant as far as the national championship is concerned.
> > I mean, if you can't beat anyone outside of your own conference, you obviously
> > aren't the best.
> >
> > Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
> > football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU
> > team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
> > undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.
> >
> > Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really
> > nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
> > alliance and play for the national championship someday...
>
> Far too early in the season to be talking this way.........
>
> Gov


Too early!? If someone is going to talk this way, they HAVE to do it
EARLY in the season! If they wait to long, their teams will lose and
they will have to wait till next year to say it ;)

Not that I would mind seeing ASU obliterate USC and go undefeated... :)

Scott Thompson
ag...@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

Scott Thompson

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

Bonehead wrote:
>
> In article <524n9r$u...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, me...@chem.psu.edu (Scot
> Mente) wrote:

>
> }: }On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:
> }: }
> }: }> The first of many. Welcome them in, folks. With open arms.
> }: }

> }
> }In article <dylan-22099...@news.tamu.edu> you wrote:
> }: Hint: when did you first post here?
> } ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> }
> }OOOOHHHHH!!! The RSFC good-ole'boy club rears its ugly head. Shouldn't
> it read
> }"Hint: how many times a day do you post here?"
>
> No, I'm just looking for a sign you're a real fan. The (apparent) fact
> you didn't post when ASU didn't look really good isn't exactly a sign
> in your favor.
>
> Newbies who crawl out of the woodwork when their team does well and then
> dissappear when they lose are always to be loathed and despised. Your
> entrance doesn't look real promising thus far; don't pull a quick fade
> when ASU starts looking really bad, and we'll talk.
>
> --
> Dylan Alexander
> dy...@tamu.edu

I am a sometime lurker who just posted after the ASU game. However, you
should read my posts (and others from ASU) Several of us are doing
anything but gloating. After all of the RUTS bad blood talk, I thought
it might be constructive to try to cool it off. Just because someone
doesn't participate in a flame war with rival schools on a daily basis
does not mean there is anything wrong with them posting. Flaming is not
the only thing worth posting.

Mike Dahmus

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

ASU R00LZ!!1 WH0DA TH0UGHT THAT A 11-AA TEEM L1EK APALASH1AN STATE W00D BEET
M1GHTY NEBARSKA L1EK A RENT1D MULE?????/

ASU!!1 REF00Z!!1 2!!!1 L00SE!!1

---
Mike Dahmus mail: mda...@austin.ibm.com
Pen for OS/2 Development Disclaimer: Not an official IBM spokesman


Scott Thompson

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to


And I would rather have shitty uniforms on a team that beats Nebraska
than cute-as-hell uniforms and LOSE TO USL. Is A&M so bad that all you
have to brag about is how much better your uniforms look?! Thats pretty
bad.

Nonetheless, you are right- the ASU uniforms are UGLY. Perhaps A&M could
send us theirs, since they aren't doing much in them anyway!

Scott Thompson
ag...@ASUvm.inre.ASU.edu

BTW, not only do I go to ASU, I went to high school in Lafayette, LA so
I can fully appreciate how bad you must feel about losing to a team as
HORRIBLE as USL and wishing you had a team as GOOD as ASU. My heart goes
out to you.

Mike Dahmus

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In <523r1m$o...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, jrs...@email.psu.edu (Jeff Smith) writes:
>In article <523pme$d...@natinst.com>, rob...@natinst.com (Robert Gretta) wrote:
><Snip>
>> Everybody's a comedian. What was the combined total of big10 and pac10
>> bowl victories last year? Or the year before. or the year before....
>
> While the Big Te(leve)n went a dismal 2-4 in bowls this past season, I'm
>fairly sure we did quite well the season before that...

Yeah, but the year before that was like 2-4 again.

I think Penn State has about half of the Big Ten's bowl victories since they
joined the conference.

---
Mike "Stassen Call" Dahmus mail: mda...@austin.ibm.com

Trent Woodruff

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

>Neil was cut from Rice for saying...

And that's fine...however, you also need to keep in mind that YOU ARE a
newbie. And you will be treated like one until you show that you aren't.
But you won't be around that long, will you?

>And if I get bored and decide
>not to post here, I'll do that too.

That would be right after they lose their first game, right? Bandwagonner.

>Now, I believe this newsgroup was created in order for people to
>electronically shoot the breeze about college football, so why don't you
>do just that? Personally, I'm looking forward to next week's Oregon game
>to see if ASU defeated Nebraska with its skill, or its emotion.

I think it was a combination of both. I don't think they'd have won with
JUST their skill, but obviously they couldn't have won with just their
emotion either (in other words, they ARE very skilled, but the emotion put
them over the top). I think the big danger in the Oregon game is the letdown
from that high and possibly a little of the "we beat Nebraska, I KNOW we can
beat Oregon" mentality.


(You don't have to LIKE being a newbie. You just are.)


Trent Woodruff

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

>Neil was cut from Rice for saying...
>>On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Bonehead wrote:

>> No, I'm just looking for a sign you're a real fan. The (apparent) fact
>> you didn't post when ASU didn't look really good isn't exactly a sign
>> in your favor.

>Uh, no. It isn't a sign in my favour in YOUR Internet-dependent opinion.

>I've been a rabid Montreal Expos fan for my entire life, but how many of
>my posts will you find on rec.sport.baseball-mtl-expos (or whatever it's
>called)? Zero.

That's exactly our point, you idiot. The fact that you only want to talk
about your team when they're "on top" makes you an embarrassment to fandom
everywhere.

>> Newbies who crawl out of the woodwork when their team does well and then
>> dissappear when they lose are always to be loathed and despised. Your
>> entrance doesn't look real promising thus far; don't pull a quick fade
>> when ASU starts looking really bad, and we'll talk.

>My loyalty to ASU (or my country, or my religion, or my girlfriend, or my


>family) doesn't vary according to how many posts I send to a Usenet group.

So this is...like...your admission that you'll be gone as soon as they lose,
right?

>And thanks for the wonderful welcome. I feel like Pat Buchanan after
>stumbling into an NAACP meeting.

Good. It's nice to know we haven't lost our touch.


szecker

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <523r1m$o...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, jrs...@email.psu.edu (Jeff
Smith) wrote:

> In article <523pme$d...@natinst.com>, rob...@natinst.com (Robert Gretta)
wrote:
> <Snip>
> > Everybody's a comedian. What was the combined total of big10 and pac10
> > bowl victories last year? Or the year before. or the year before....
>
> While the Big Te(leve)n went a dismal 2-4 in bowls this past season, I'm
> fairly sure we did quite well the season before that...
>

Try 5-1

Neil

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

On 23 Sep 1996, Trent Woodruff wrote:

> That's exactly our point, you idiot. The fact that you only want to talk
> about your team when they're "on top" makes you an embarrassment to fandom
> everywhere.

So if I'm not posting to this Usenet newsgroup that's filled with geeks
like you (who comprise a minority, I should say, since most people here
seem pretty cool despite assholes like you), that means I'm not "talking"
about my team? Get a life. And the Huskers lost two days ago already, get
over it.

Brian Saunders

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <526c2f$11...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>, mda...@austin.ibm.com
(Mike Dahmus) wrote:

>I think Penn State has about half of the Big Ten's bowl victories since they
>joined the conference.

Not even close.

--
Brian Saunders
saun...@castor.che.wisc.edu

Steve Casburn

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <saunders-ya023080...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,

saun...@castor.che.wisc.edu (Brian Saunders) wrote:
>
> In article <526c2f$11...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>, mda...@austin.ibm.com
> (Mike Dahmus) wrote:
>
> >I think Penn State has about half of the Big Ten's bowl victories since they
> >joined the conference.
>
> Not even close.


Big Ten Bowl Victories Since PSU Joined in 1993:

1993 Holiday Bowl Ohio State 28, Brigham Young 21
1994 Outback Bowl Michigan 42, NC State 7
1994 Citrus Bowl Penn State 31, Tennessee 13
1994 Rose Bowl Wisconsin 21, UCLA 16

1994 Liberty Bowl Illinois 30, East Carolina 0
1994 Holiday Bowl Michigan 24, Colorado State 14
1995 Outback Bowl Wisconsin 34, Duke 20
1995 Rose Bowl Penn State 38, Oregon 20

1995 Sun Bowl Iowa 38, Washington 18
1996 Outback Bowl Penn State 43, Auburn 14


Penn State has three out of 10. Not half, but still pretty
impressive. Way to go, Joe!

Steve

Miss Thang

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

Whatever, everyone. Congrats to ASU for knocking off the formerly
invincible cheaters of Husker U.

The real bandwagoners, though, are all the press voters on crack who
actually voted ASU up to #6, including one first-place vote. Who are we
kidding here?

Fran Deisinger

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

wilso...@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Emerson Wilson) wrote:

>What happened Nebraska? I thought you guys were 'playing at a level above
>everyone else in the nation' and were simply unstoppable.

>Can you say OVERRATED?

>I mean you were SHUT OUT by a #17 team from a conference many of you have
>referred to as being full of pansies. What's that make you now?

>If there is anything evident after tonight's game, it is that Nebraska is not
>nearly as unbeatable as many thought. Beating MSU is one thing but beating a
>ranked team is another - just ask your friends in Colorado.

>Also evident is the fact that the Big-12 is the MOST OVERRATED CONFERENCE IN
>COLLEGE FOOTBALL. From Nebraska to Colorado to Texas to Texas A&M, the
>conference has lost games against very strong teams like Michigan and Notre
>Dame, up and coming teams like Arizona State, and absolutely pathetic teams
>like Southwest Louisiana University. Because of this failure, the Big-12 is,
>in my opinion, insignificant as far as the national championship is concerned.
>I mean, if you can't beat anyone outside of your own conference, you obviously
>aren't the best.

>Looking to the best, I see the Big Ten, the premier conference in college
>football right now, with 3 teams in the top-5. I also see an undefeated ASU
>team with the possibility of going undefeated in the Pac-10 and meeting an
>undefeated Big-Ten team in the Rose Bowl.

>Now, if you guys in the SEC, the ACC, the Big East, and the Big-12 are really
>nice, we in the Big Ten and Pac Ten might just let you join our Rose Bowl
>alliance and play for the national championship someday...

In general, I agree, but we Rose Bowlers really shouldn't stoop to
this "m"nc level -- our game has always been more important anyway.
As for Nebraska (and the rest of the B12) -- deal with it. Now that
you're out of the "m"nc picture -- and face it, you are -- you'll just
have to focus on things like beating each other for conference
bragging rights, then having a fun New Year's trip somewhere.. And
you know what? That ain't so bad. So if you'll just try screwing
your heads on properly, you'll find that college football is a lot
more fun for it's week to week greatness than because of all the
national champ claptrap.

Where does this calm, rational perspective come from, you ask? From a
Wisconsin fan who learned in the lean years (and oh yes, there were
many) that you could lose the game but still win the party!

Fran Deisinger

P.S. A quote from my college sports mentor: "There's three things
every Big Ten fan must hate: ACC basketball; Big Eight football. And
Notre Dame." Bill Kurtz, c 1970.

Words of wisdom, Bill.


Message has been deleted

Brian Saunders

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <Casburn.1-230...@ts38-14.homenet.ohio-state.edu>,
Casb...@osu.edu (Steve Casburn) wrote:

> Penn State has three out of 10. Not half, but still pretty
>impressive. Way to go, Joe!

I must recant, then. I guess 2 games is relatively close to 5, but not
THAT close.

--
Brian Saunders
saun...@castor.che.wisc.edu

Tim Klein

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <dylan-23099...@news.tamu.edu>, dy...@tamu.edu
(Bonehead) writes:

>No, but when you start posting right after a big win, it makes it quite
>likely you're a bandwagon fan, worthy of scorn and derision.
>
>--
>Dylan Alexander
>dy...@tamu.edu

Face it Neil, you're stuck with the "bandwagoner" tag until you lose a
game, and still come back and post!

(hint: take a look at Dylan's e-mail address. Absolutely, positively,
without a doubt, no chance, that he's a bandwagon fan!)


Tim
---

Unregistered User

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

In article <Dy5w7...@news2.new-york.net>, Vijay Ramanujan
<vij...@cybernex.net> wrote:

Pardon me, but isn't PSU already ahead of Notre Dame? Unless they lose a
game their schedule is at least as tough as ND's. It is logical to assume
that if each "wins out" PSU would be ranked higher

Unregistered User

unread,
Sep 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/23/96
to

> In article <saunders-ya023080...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
> saun...@castor.che.wisc.edu (Brian Saunders) wrote:
> >
> > In article <526c2f$11...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>, mda...@austin.ibm.com
> > (Mike Dahmus) wrote:
> >
> > >I think Penn State has about half of the Big Ten's bowl victories
since they
> > >joined the conference.
> >
> > Not even close.
>
>
> Big Ten Bowl Victories Since PSU Joined in 1993:
>
> 1993 Holiday Bowl Ohio State 28, Brigham Young 21
> 1994 Outback Bowl Michigan 42, NC State 7
> 1994 Citrus Bowl Penn State 31, Tennessee 13
> 1994 Rose Bowl Wisconsin 21, UCLA 16
>
> 1994 Liberty Bowl Illinois 30, East Carolina 0
> 1994 Holiday Bowl Michigan 24, Colorado State 14
> 1995 Outback Bowl Wisconsin 34, Duke 20
> 1995 Rose Bowl Penn State 38, Oregon 20
>
> 1995 Sun Bowl Iowa 38, Washington 18
> 1996 Outback Bowl Penn State 43, Auburn 14

Notice what's consistent from year to year? PSU is in a bowl and wins it!

>
>
> Penn State has three out of 10. Not half, but still pretty
> impressive. Way to go, Joe!
>

ddi...@bluejay.creighton.edu

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

Neil (ne...@imap1.asu.edu) wrote:

> So if I'm not posting to this Usenet newsgroup that's filled with geeks
> like you (who comprise a minority, I should say, since most people here
> seem pretty cool despite assholes like you), that means I'm not "talking"
> about my team? Get a life. And the Huskers lost two days ago already, get
> over it.

Neil, the point is this: it takes absolutely no balls to talk smack after
your team gets a big win, especially when you by your own admission came
here to find Nebraska fans to taunt. Don't expect to get anyone's respect
for that, because you don't deserve it.

If you can come in here after Arizona State loses -- and they will -- and
post about the loss, then I might give you some credit. If, however, you
skulk back to soc.culture.quebec, then you'll just confirm my suspicion
that you're a penis, and a small one at that.


David

------
David Dirgo (ddi...@creighton.edu)
Creighton University School of Law
Omaha, Nebraska, USA
------

Matt Kennedy

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

In article <Dy5wE...@news2.new-york.net>, Vijay Ramanujan
<vij...@cybernex.net> wrote:

:\>I don't see Ohio State losing to Michigan this year. Michigan's offense is
:\>not that great, and it's at the horseshoe. I think the toughest game
will be
:\>at Notre Dame. PSU at home will be tough, too. But, it should be somewhat
:\>easier than playing in South Bend.
:\
:\Michigan's offense has also only played 3 games as a unit.
:\Dreisbach and Williams are 2nd year. Shaw and Street are 1st year. That's
:\4 of the 5 most important skill players for Michigan (Tuman is the other,
:\I don't know what year he is). Despite the low point output against BC,
:\the team did get 400+ yards. By the end of the year (when they play OSU)
:\the offense should be much improved over what it is right now.
:\

You could say similar things about tOSU. Their two quarterbacks are first
year starters, one is a junior college transfer who ran the scout team
last year as a redshirt. The tailback is a first year starter, although
he saw a good deal of playing time last year. Our biggest losses were at
tight end ('94 starter D.J. Jones replaces Dudley after a year off due to
heart surgery), split end (veteran backup Buster Tillman now starts) and
fullback (Nicky Sualua, one of the best blocking backs in the country who
would rather goof off than play football, is subbed by senior Matt
Calhoun). These players have somewhat more game experience than
Michigan's, but are yet unproven in difficult situations. This will
change this week. As for room for improvement? I'm sure there is
(especially run blocking), but nothing can be clearly pointed out after
the first two embarrassments at Ohio Stadium. But I'm sure they will be
much improved as well.

--
Matt Kennedy
High Priest
Temple of the Buckeye, Columbus Headquarters

Jack Heraty

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

jac...@eyes.uab.edu (Gregory Jackson) wrote:

>> On 23 Sep 1996, Steve Casburn wrote:
>

>> Well, I have to say that I understand exactly what you are saying, Steve,
>> and others. Fairweather fans are the most annoying species of human beings
>

>Ha Ha...
>
>Ok, I never heard of ASU but I love them...Roll Tide or whatever...They
>*did* beat the Huskers...


>
>
>> God cursed us by putting on this earth. Every time I see someone walking
>> around with a spanking new Dallas Cowboys jersey, for example, it takes
>> everything I have to not throw up all over the floor.
>

>Well sales may suffer after this year...
>
> (We won't even talk
>> about Notre Dame and Michigan)
>
Do they really, seriously sell Notre Dame stuff in Birmingham,
Friggin' Alabama?? Man . . . that is too weird. I remember my
parents telling me about the 'Bama fans they met at the '72 Sugar
Bowl. Suffice it to say, things sure have changed in the New South.
--
Jack Heraty

Your friendly neighborhood Domer.

tcadams

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

In article <5279d8$g...@pigeon.creighton.edu>,

<ddi...@bluejay.creighton.edu> wrote:
>Neil (ne...@imap1.asu.edu) wrote:
>
>> So if I'm not posting to this Usenet newsgroup that's filled with geeks
>> like you (who comprise a minority, I should say, since most people here
>> seem pretty cool despite assholes like you), that means I'm not "talking"
>> about my team? Get a life. And the Huskers lost two days ago already, get
>> over it.
>
>Neil, the point is this: it takes absolutely no balls to talk smack after
>your team gets a big win, especially when you by your own admission came
>here to find Nebraska fans to taunt. Don't expect to get anyone's respect
>for that, because you don't deserve it.
>
>If you can come in here after Arizona State loses -- and they will -- and
>post about the loss, then I might give you some credit. If, however, you
>skulk back to soc.culture.quebec, then you'll just confirm my suspicion
>that you're a penis, and a small one at that.

I really haven't seen anything remotely obnoxious about the posts of the
ASU people following the game Saturday. No *#$&^&# YOU KNEBRASKA!!! or
ASU ROOLZ!!! stuff. The Husker fans throwing a hissy fit over Sun Devil
visitors to rsfc could afford to chill a little bit.

Tom Adams KU '93


Vijay Ramanujan

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

In article <valet-info-23...@tsip122.ionet.net> Unregistered

User, valet...@svcdudes.com writes:
>Pardon me, but isn't PSU already ahead of Notre Dame? Unless they lose a
>game their schedule is at least as tough as ND's. It is logical to assume
>that if each "wins out" PSU would be ranked higher

Yes, but ...
If Notre Dame beats OSU next week, they will have beaten a top 5 team.
They will have beaten a second consecutive quality team. They will get a
huge boost in the polls. Then PSU beats OSU the week after that, and
people start saying "Hey, this OSU team might not be that good. They lost
two weeks in a row." And PSU does not get the benefit of the win over OSU
that Notre Dame got.

End result? If both Notre Dame and PSU beat OSU (especially if they both
win solidly) it is not unlikely that Notre Dame jumps PSU in the polls.
Life is really made horrible for PSU if Michigan then proceeds to lose
before playing PSU, depriving PSU of their last chance to make a big
showing of it.

Vijay R.

Coz

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:12:45 -0700, yvo...@alumni.stanford.org
(Yvonne Lee) writes:

>No way! ASU's biggest hurdle is Oregon next week.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

>I'm not trying to take anything at all away from ASU. They had to be a
>good team to win last night. Now, the mammoth task is making sure the
>team stays focused for next week.

That is correct. It is easy to let down when you play a patsy the next
week. Don't worry, that OLE defense will remain true to form.


Scot Mente

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96
to

tcadams (tca...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:

: I really haven't seen anything remotely obnoxious about the posts of the

: ASU people following the game Saturday. No *#$&^&# YOU KNEBRASKA!!! or
: ASU ROOLZ!!! stuff. The Husker fans throwing a hissy fit over Sun Devil
: visitors to rsfc could afford to chill a little bit.

: Tom Adams KU '93

well said

--
Scot Mente
me...@chem.psu.edu
http://xeno.chem.psu.edu/~mente
Go Pads!!

Scott Thompson

unread,
Sep 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/24/96