Wrist strap (again)

[sfetheroff]

We have an older fencer returning after forty years of doing other things with
his life. He likes to use an Italian grip with a wrist strap, but has started
using the strap with a pistol grip foil and epee. The strap gives him a huge
advantage in strength and the ability to do very broad circular motions which
are tough to get around. Also the strap makes me uncomfortable because on
several occasions when I have been hit the stiffness of his arm and blade
caused more discomfort than I would like. This to me is a big issue, when I
hit too hard I can let my grip go a bit and ease up, he can not. I have
several fencing books and one shows clearly straps being used the other no
straps. I am confused because the rules (1991 version) say a martingale is
mandatory if the weapon is not attatched, for example electrically. The
Prevoust of our club says thet are not allowed in competion and a fencing
master we had run a kids camp at our club agreed but I have no documentaion of
rules that outlaw the strap.

I would appreciate some help in learning the rules concerning the wrist strap,
its history, and why changes were made.

Thanks

[Eric Dew]

Sorry, but straps are OK with all grips as long as it does not provide
a length advantage. Thus, can't use straps with french grips. Other than
that, one can use it with pistol as well as italian grips.

EDEW

[DBrannon]

Having fenced for years with the ilalian foil, I can testify that the
wrist strap does not make the weapon and forearm "one" (assuming you have
learned how to fence with the italian grip). What the wrist strap does is
force the user to absolutely dominate the fencing-distance in the bout.
Facing someone using a strap? Break inside fast and hit. The opponent's
point will be behind you.

[Stephan Khinoy]

The wrist strap -- even the one on the Italian foil, where it was
traditional -- was *recently* outlawed for safety reasons. It the
martingale, which only keeps a lost weapon from flying, is outlawed, the
strap is even more outlawed. The language of the FIE is specifically aimed
at the Italian practice.

-- Steve
>>
>>I'm not sure if the strap is OK. According to CFA rules (Derived
>>directly from FIE) "The use of a martingale or any similar device
>>which impedes the articulation of the armed hand and forarm, making
>>virtually a single entity out of them, is forbidden." (Articles 209,
>>309). I assume from the description the strap makes the hand and
>>forarm one. This ammendment to the rules is pretty recent (Oct. 1,
>>1993).

[Richard M(IB) Rudy]

On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 22:59:54 GMT, ed...@netcom.com (Eric Dew) wrote:

>>I would appreciate some help in learning the rules concerning the wrist strap,
>>its history, and why changes were made.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>
>Sorry, but straps are OK with all grips as long as it does not provide
>a length advantage. Thus, can't use straps with french grips. Other than
>that, one can use it with pistol as well as italian grips.
>
>EDEW

I'm not sure if the strap is OK. According to CFA rules (Derived

directly from FIE) "The use of a martingale or any similar device
which impedes the articulation of the armed hand and forarm, making
virtually a single entity out of them, is forbidden." (Articles 209,
309). I assume from the description the strap makes the hand and
forarm one. This ammendment to the rules is pretty recent (Oct. 1,
1993).

Since the fencer hasn't been fencing for some time he is likely
unaware of this rule change.

Hope this helps

RMR

[Eric Dew]

There are wrist straps and there are wrist straps. I believe all the
ones that you can get at fencing supply stores are of the version that does
not ``impede the articulation of the armed hand...'' I believe the rule
is made to prevent people from making their own strap/contraption.

EDEW

[jayfer]

I'm just returning to fencing after a number of years. I am amoung
those that originally learned the Italian school, i.e., very
structured and with the strap (Nadi style).

Fencing without a strap with the Italian grip just doesn't seem to
work for me. Any suggestions on what might be the best alternative?
I'd be especially interested if you have experiance with a strap.

TIA

Jay

skh...@nyc.pipeline.com(Stephan Khinoy) wrote:

>
>
>The wrist strap -- even the one on the Italian foil, where it was
>traditional -- was *recently* outlawed for safety reasons. It the
>martingale, which only keeps a lost weapon from flying, is outlawed, the
>strap is even more outlawed. The language of the FIE is specifically aimed
>at the Italian practice.
>
> -- Steve
>>>

[Imbroccata]

Dear Jay,

The prohibition against the use of wrist straps is a myth.

In:
Fencing Rules
1995 Edition
United States Fencing Association, Inc.,

article 209 states:

>When the foil is not secured to the hand by an attachment
>or by the body cord, the use of a martingale is mandatory.

article 309 states:

>When the epee is not secured to the hand by an
>attachment or by the body cord the use of a martingale
>is mandatory.

Close examination of these articles reveals the following:

1. There is no prohibition against wrist straps cited in
these articles.

2. No type of grip; Italian, French, pistol, or any other
is referred to in these articles.

3. No type of wrist strap; store bought, homemade,
or any other is mentioned in any article.

4. The use of a martingale is not only legal, but
mandatory if the foil or epee is not attached
to the hand by a body cord or some other
attachment; for example, a wrist strap. This mandate
applies to all legal grip types.

Summary: Use of the wrist strap is currently legal with
Italian, French and any other legal grip.

References:

1. Fencing Rules
1995 Edition
United States Fencing Association, Inc.,

2. USFA National Newsletter (Vol. 2, No. 4, Winter 1994)

3. George Edward Kolombatovich
Chair, USFA Fencing Officials Commission
<ge...@columbia.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Wrist strap rules
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 11:10:23 -0500
X-Sender: ge...@ciao.cc.columbia.edu

> The wrist strap is, once again, legal. The FIE
> published a change in two rules that forbade the use
> of anything that prevented the wrist from articulating.
> (We were told that this was done as a safety messure.)
> This made such things as the wrist strap with an
> Italian Foil or Epee illegal.

> This published rule of the FIE was adopted by the
> USFA. Subsequently, the FIE stated that it did not
> change the rules that it had stated it had changed.
> Once we knew that, the Fencing Officials Commission
> immediately contacted the Executive Committee and
> recommended that these rules be removed. The
> Executive Committee did that last week.

4. George Edward Kolombatovich
Chair, USFA Fencing Officials Commission
<ge...@columbia.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Wrist strap rules
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 18:20:02 -0500
X-Sender: ge...@ciao.cc.columbia.edu

> The "New Wriststrap Rule" is actually the old rule.
> The FIE published a change to their rules forbidding
> the use of anything that would interfere with the
> articulation of the wrist (such as a wrist strap). It > was
stated at the FIE Congress that the rules were
> being changed for safety reasons. The USFA adopted
> the change as published (after translation) by the FIE.
> It was then discovered that the FIE did not do what
> they had published they had done so the USFA
> returned to the old rules. End result: The use of a
> wrist strap is permitted.

Jay,

Division chairman Eric Dew's remarks are
nothing more than personal opinions;
they are not facts. Had he kept up with the
rules, as a division chairman ought, he
wouldn't have added to confusion over
an issue that was settled more than a year
and a half ago.

Frank Lurz
Military Master at Arms
Frank Lurz