French grip vs. pistol grip?
sab...@telerama.lm.com
1) The French grip allows you to exercise better finger control because
so many beginners succumb to the temptation to hold a pistol grip like
it's a handgun, instead of pinching the grip with the thumb and index
fingers. To hold a French grip with any amount of control, it's
difficult NOT to hold it this way.
2) Starting out with a French grip develops the muscles in your sword
hand, which contributes to better finger control and, ultimately, better
blade and point control.
3) Once you can hold a French grip comfortably and exercise precise
point control, you can hold just about Anything!
Leastways, that's what I've noticed. But I'm still a beginner.
Adam W.
--
Adam W. Richter
Sab...@telerama.lm.com
"Is there anything out there? And must they be so noisy?"-W. Alen
Noah Lee Zucker
>hand, which contributes to better finger control and, ultimately, better
>blade and point control.
Yeah but lots of beginners also develop bad habits by griping the french
grip wrong(with their entire hand)and end up hacking away at eachother
ala conan the barbarian. I still think that beginners should start with
the french grip, but foilists need to move onto pistol grips at some
point. Epee fencers may stay with the french grip more easily.
After you've been fencing for at least two years, it's all personal preference.
noah
David Glasser
>From: Yves Konigshofer <BG6...@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
>Subject: Re: French grip vs. pistol grip?
>Date: 27 JAN 95 17:12:22 EST
>In article <sashaz-2601...@branner-pm.stanford.edu> sashaz (Sasha Zucker) writes:
>>
>>Sometimes, when I'm practicing purely blade work I use a french grip to
>>relax and strengthen my hand. Sean McClain says french grips are great and
>>that you can "make incredible flick shots with them." Using them in a
>>serious competition is foolish, however. It's silly to make fencers use a
>>french grip like a certain coach in texas does, for example.
>>
>>-sasha
[snip]
>Anyway, beginners should use french grips because learning point
>control with the fingers using a pistol grip is difficult.
>->/ves
It may be best to follow your coache's advice about which type of grip. That
doesn't mean you shouldn't give him feedback about it though.
A beginner tends to learn better finger control ("doigte") with the French
grip. If you use a pistol grip well you should hold it somewhat into the
fingers. Some pistol grips lend themselves more to that than others. I use a
Belgian pistol grip from Leon Paul for foil and an Uhlmann German grip for
epee. If I wanted to switch hands frequently during a lesson I would use a
laterally straight tang w/French grip.
I do not require that my students use a French grip, but I recommend it to
those that are having trouble with finger-play. French grips are good for
beginners' classes because the fencers tend to develop greater finesse while
refraining from clubbing each other. For a beginner that is undertaking
private lessons with me I usually suggest a pistol grip electric foil
connected to a training touch box at the hip.
The Tauberbischofsheim style of foil fencing works best with a pistol
grip. I think classic French style works pretty well with both, although a
purist would probably prefer the French grip. There are differences for
angulation, etc.
David Glasser
fencing master %DFB:BLZ/LLZ Bonn NFF:BSI/BF/NSS Bergen
gla...@facstaff.wisc.edu
Department of Kinesiology, University of Wisconsin -- Madison
Mike Buckley
Sasha Zucker <sashaz> wrote:
>Sometimes, when I'm practicing purely blade work I use a french grip to
>relax and strengthen my hand. Sean McClain says french grips are great and
>that you can "make incredible flick shots with them." Using them in a
>serious competition is foolish, however. It's silly to make fencers use a
>french grip like a certain coach in texas does, for example.
>
Two points:
1) I think French grips are very useful in teaching beginners. It can
be used to emphasise the importance of finger work. I also tends to
amplify any problems the beginner might be having and so helps the
instructor notice them. E.g. an overly tight grip on a French grip
almost always results in a club like fist. Much easier to spot that
over gripping an orthopedic. However, some care needs to be used in
the (eventual) introduction of the ortho grip.
2) I'll agree that using a French grip on a sabre in competition is
foolish. I'll abstain with regards to foil (since I don't know diddly
about serious foil competition). In epee, I'll have to disagree.
What needs to be understood is that the French grip in epee defines an
entirely different style of fencing as compared to the orthopedic
grips. To think that the two are interchangeable is misleading at
best. But to call the majority of the French and Italian national
teams foolish says more about you and your specific fencing style than
it does about the relative merits of the grips.
--
-- Mike Buckley
Sasha Zucker
mabu...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Buckley) wrote:
> 2) I'll agree that using a French grip on a sabre in competition is
> foolish. I'll abstain with regards to foil (since I don't know diddly
> about serious foil competition).
I've only seen one kind of sabre grip. In serious foil competitions,
someone who uses a french grip is at a serious disadvantage. The reason I
say this is that a pistol grip gives you a lot more control and strength
than a french grip. French grips are good for beginners, but a competitor
should use a pistol grip, IMNSHO. Also, in epee, most people use pistol
grips, but I would probably use a french grip if I fenced epee.
-sasha
Mary Ellen Curtin
>
> [...] Also, in epee, most people use pistol
>grips, but I would probably use a french grip if I fenced epee.
Most people do, but some very good epee fencers don't. John Normile comes
to mind.
Dirk Goldgar
internet: <p01...@psilink.com>
postal: 9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534, USA
Sasha Zucker
(Sasha Zucker) wrote:
Also, in epee, most people use pistol
> grips, but I would probably use a french grip if I fenced epee.
>
Isn't life ironic sometimes? :-)
-sasha
Christophe Guettier
Use a French grip to learn with your weapon master, use a pistol grip in
competition.
Christophe.
Chris Richardson
Typical sasha z.
Bringing a knife to a gun fight.
========================================================================
" there's a zucker born every minute . . "
;)
Kevin Phillips
In article <300069781...@psilink.com>, "Mary Ellen Curtin" (p01...@psilink.com) writes:
>Sasha Zucker <sashaz> writes:
>>
>> [...] Also, in epee, most people use pistol
>>grips, but I would probably use a french grip if I fenced epee.
>
>Most people do, but some very good epee fencers don't. John Normile comes
>to mind.
>
>Dirk Goldgar
I don't know about that side of the pond, but over here almost every
epeeist I have seen at competitions have fought with pistol grips. The
fench grip is so rare that many people commented on the odd fencer
fighting with one.
The control and confidence afforded by the pistol grip is the major reason
I changed from french grips when I defected from foil.
Cheers
Kevin Phillips - Corsair Sword Club
Johnathon McAlister
> How about an Italian grip for foil? I haven't seen many of those, but I
> tried one once and it was very comfortable. It allowed for better beating
> action, which I use a lot, and it also felt very secure in my hand.
> Splut, from AOL
Actually, I found the Italian quite difficult to hold - it kept pressing
me uncomfortably. Tradition has it that it allows for more strength, but
less finesse than a French grip.
BTW, lots of beats are bad - your opponent can disengage and
counter-attack in nasty ways.
--
Johnathon McAlister
mac...@MT.net - preferred, as it's flat rate
johnm...@aol.com - backup, as it's paid hourly
CJarred
>me uncomfortably. Tradition has it that it allows for more strength, but
>less finesse than a French grip.
There's a guy in New Orleans who did quite well with an Italian grip -
Craig Kramer. He used to really give me a run for my money. I don't know
if he still uses it, but it is my understanding that there have been rule
changes which are heavily biased against the Italian grip... namely the
ban on martingales, which were relied on by a number of (if not most)
Italian-style fencers. I agree that French allows for more finesse - but
the fact that this guy went as far as he did tells me that you can develop
a quite a lot of skill either way.
Chip Jarred
CJa...@aol.com
RJa...@shibfi01.houston.mm2.shl.com
Desiree Michele Fulford
: In article <3i329u$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, sp...@aol.com (Splut) wrote:
: BTW, lots of beats are bad - your opponent can disengage and
: counter-attack in nasty ways.
: --
: Johnathon McAlister
Anything is bad, if not done properly. I don't think beats are any more
disadvantageous than anything else....
Ed Mou.