Fencing is not an art!
Geoff Graves-Smith
creation is titled "The Art of Fencing"? I think it should be changed to
"The Sport of Fencing". I am defintely not an artist, but I do consider
myself to be an athlete. Fencing is a tough challenging sport and it
should be treated that way.
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|. o Geoff Graves-Smith | g_gr...@husky1.stmarys.ca c ,|
|`'#v-- Halifax, Nova Scotia | csc2...@husky1.stmarys.ca --v#`'|
| /'> CANADA | aa...@cfn.cs.dal.ca <`\ |
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bob fiegel
>
> Anyone else notice that the Fencing page, I think it's David Glasser's
> creation is titled "The Art of Fencing"? I think it should be changed to
> "The Sport of Fencing". I am defintely not an artist, but I do consider
> myself to be an athlete. Fencing is a tough challenging sport and it
> should be treated that way.
> --
Fencing is a physical art, just as any other martial art. Fencing is
not just being faster or stronger, it is physical and mental self
control. By mastering oneself the opponent is overcome.
Gary Hayenga
>Anyone else notice that the Fencing page, I think it's David Glasser's
>creation is titled "The Art of Fencing"? I think it should be changed to
>"The Sport of Fencing". I am defintely not an artist, but I do consider
>myself to be an athlete. Fencing is a tough challenging sport and it
>should be treated that way.
>--
>
Art is the stage beyond Sport. *You* may not be an artist, but Great
Fencers are. Michael Jordan is an artist with a basketball. Mauro Numa
is an artist with a Foil.
Fencing is a Martial Art; somewhat more abstract than most, but definitely
an Art.
I like to think that even mediocre fencers like myself can be artists,
combining flashes of creativity with disciplined technique.
gary hayenga
--
Gary.H...@mixcom.com
sab...@telerama.lm.com
in your hand as easily as a foil.
--
Sab...@telerama.lm.com
"My hand moves out and I have the touch." -- Peter Gabriel
Ex-Genesis lead singer, fencer wanna-be
WILLIAM DOCTER
> In <D6trs...@cs.dal.ca> aa...@cfn.cs.dal.ca (Geoff Graves-Smith) writes:
> >Anyone else notice that the Fencing page, I think it's David Glasser's
> >creation is titled "The Art of Fencing"? I think it should be changed to
> >"The Sport of Fencing". I am defintely not an artist, but I do consider
> >myself to be an athlete. Fencing is a tough challenging sport and it
> >should be treated that way.
> >--
> >
> Art is the stage beyond Sport. *You* may not be an artist, but Great
> Fencers are. Michael Jordan is an artist with a basketball. Mauro Numa
> is an artist with a Foil.
Many in the "Martial Arts" community believe that the "Art" comes from
an underlying philosophy of the fighting system that can be applied in
everyday life. In many of the asian martial arts, this philosophy is
rooted in Zen. A person using this definition of 'Art' would
probably classify most fighting systems as 'Martial Sports' because
while they test one physically and mentally,they lack a spiritual
dimension
Using your refence to basketball, Wilt Chamberlain was also very good
to watch; however, his vice ridden lifestyle would tend to
indicate that all the benefits he got from basketball were physical
(and perhaps mental), but there was no spiritual benefits.
Micheal Jordan may very well be an artist in this sense, but is clear
that Wilt is not (he is merely a good athlete).
What makes a martial discipline spiritual is not what style the
discipline is, rather it is how (and where) you were taught it. In
most fencing schools (or for that matter a school of any martial style)
you will find a "Martial Sport". In a few fencing schools you may
also find the "Martial Art".
Just my $0.02
Geoff Graves-Smith
: If fencing were just a sport, then that might as well be a tennis racket
Yes...and your point is?
Matthew Cox
is a sport. An art? Well, one could argue the aesthetic aspects about
fencing, and I probably not argue. But, fencing is primarily a sport.
And, actually, fencing is very akin to tennis.
Matthew Cox
--
"If you want goodnes, justice and God to follow you, always- hand before
the foot."- Ronald C. Miller
Jasper Phillips
The art comes from the mindgames and outguessing that occur between
two people fencing, from the the ability to put together creatively
and efficiently (form, timing, distance, surprise, etc.)
In some respects, chess is considered art. In any event, just because
one doesn't considering something to be art, doesn't mean that someone
else can't. Art is purely subjective.
-Jasper
Gary Hayenga
>Just my $0.02
By you definition of Art it must have a spiritual dimension rather than
than have a *merely* creative dimension, but by that standard painting
sculpture and music are not Arts unless they are done by priests and monks.
The traditional contrast is between Art and Science. Here we are merely
using the term Sport to describe the scientific aspects of fencing. The
the purpose of both Art and Science is to reveal Truth. But Science quantifies
things and attempts to reveal the underlying principles by reducing them to
their smallest parts and then desribing the relationships between all the
parts. And this is a major part of fencing. There is also a scientific
element to all arts. Proper technique, and sound understanding of all the
underlying elements are essential to creating great music, sculpture and
painting. But the Art and Science take opposite approaches toward the
revealing of Truth. Science wants to reveal truth by discovering and
describing things such that anyone can reproduce the same results by applying
the principles revealed. Art insists that some things cannot be quantified
in such a manner. Classically this is cast as a contest between Mind and
Soul, yet great works of music and sculpture have undeniably been created
by people with 'vice-ridden' lifestyles. Art focuses on the abstract
concepts of human relationships; Beauty, Justice, Love, Glory, etc. It
illustrates these by creating new combinations of light, color, texture
and sound in unique and evocative ways.
The purpose of a bout is to reveal who is the better fencer. And if one
fencers technique is significantly better than the other the answer is
obvious and predictable. Yet every fencer has seen fencers with superior
technique lose bouts to fencers with lesser technical skills. Creative
combinations of timing, perspective and technique are what make it an Art.
Without the creativity it is merely mechanical.
Sprinting is a sport. Swimming is a sport. Weightlifting is a sport.
Creativity has no place in these. Fencing is an Art.
In fencers of sound technical ability it is the creativity that makes a
champion.
gary hayenga
--
Gary.H...@mixcom.com
HaroldBuck
Please move this discussion to rec.arts.fencing. <grin>
-Harold Buck
(Harol...@AOL.com)
The opinions expressed here are not
necessarily those of my employer. Since
I am self-employed, this means these
opinions are not necessarily my own.
Greg Paye
>
> Anyone else notice that the Fencing page, I think it's David Glasser's
> creation is titled "The Art of Fencing"? I think it should be changed to
> "The Sport of Fencing". I am defintely not an artist, but I do consider
> myself to be an athlete. Fencing is a tough challenging sport and it
> should be treated that way.
> --
>
You are kidding, right? From the sport comes art. It is a
sport of mock-combat with style, and self-expression...
hence the adage, "The piste is a mirror to the soul."
If you feel inclined, check out a small, but enthralling
book by Joe Hyams, Zen in the Martial Arts. He puts the
whole 'mock-combat is an art' arguement in much better
light.
My two cents.
- Greg at BostonFC
Sasha Zucker
Phillips) wrote:
> The art comes from the mindgames and outguessing that occur between
> two people fencing, from the the ability to put together creatively
> and efficiently (form, timing, distance, surprise, etc.)
>
> In some respects, chess is considered art. In any event, just because
> one doesn't considering something to be art, doesn't mean that someone
> else can't. Art is purely subjective.
Fencing was once called "the chess game of death." I like that... :-)
-sasha
Jessie Micales
>My two cents.
>- Greg at BostonFC
You're right, Greg. Joe Hyams' book is excellent and really helped my
attitude towards fencing. I read it at a point when I was very discouraged
about my competitive results, and it really gave me a whole new appreciation
of fencing as a martial art (with a focus on self-improvement rather
than just competition). It gave me a new way of looking at my training, and
I've been much happier (and much more patient with myself) since.
Jessie (jmic...@facstaff.wisc.edu)
Stuart Catlin
Anyone who thinks fencing is just a sport and not an art form, has
obviously never seen me fence! :-)
Stuart D. Catlin
| @
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Three keys to wisdom, see much, study much and suffer much.
Llyod Alexander
Sasha Zucker
fe...@kuentos.guam.net (Stuart Catlin) wrote:
>
> Anyone who thinks fencing is just a sport and not an art form, has
> obviously never seen me fence! :-)
Why, what would seeing you fence show?
sincerely,
stupefied in Stanford.
BTW- I personally think that fencing is a sport. The idea that it is an
"art" comes from the reference of combat sports as "martial arts."