foil vs epee vs sabre, which to choose?
Greg
OK, so I'm 45. My coach suggests that after several months I switch
to epee. He thinks I'll have more of a chance with feints and
strategy as compared to the faster loaded foil and sabre. However,
I've always liked the physical actions of the sabre.
I've slowed down in 25 years especially in the legs and knees.
So, any recommendations?
Greg Nye
HaroldBuck
Unless you're trying to win tournaments, do whichever one you think you'll
enjoy the most. Have fun!
-Harold
Tim Schofield
<harol...@aol.com> writes
I have to agree with Harold! However, if you must choose, what your
coach says makes a lot of sense.
- Sabre is very much a game of speed and fast reactions these days; it's
changed very much in the past ten years with the introduction of
electric weapons
- Foil is not quite so fast, but it will be very difficult to counter
modern flick attacks if you lack mobility
--
Tim S.
a...@b.com
gc...@southwind.net (Greg) wrote:
Here's a post I can contribute something to, since I now get to fence
those "veteran" events. While each of the 3 weapons has its charms, and
each is fun onto itself, the fun starts to wear a little thin when you
wind up being not much more than a target for practice by anyone except
beginners. When those beginners are "kids" (any I have taken to calling
anyone under about 28 a "kid"), they quickly progress in foil and sabre
tp a point where their speed and ability to change direction quickly
negates any ability I have to push their buttons with cunning and guile.
Sure, I am dreadfully short in cunning and guile at times (well, most of
the time), but the fun gets in kinda short supply when you don't score
your share of touches because you simply can't move like a "kid"
anymore.
So, having recently taken up fencing at the ripe old age of 40, I have
stuck to epee, merely because I am physically suited to it. The shorter,
more subtle tactical game is not so heavily in favor of someone who can
lunge from their on guard line and hit me in the chest before I can
retreat to my 2 meter zone, and thence break out the big bag o' cunning
and guile. That stops being fun pretty quickly, and seems to be the norm
with foil and sabre. Medals and ratings are not the end all of this, but
it sure feels good to see progress. When someone comes up with a cure
for old age, I will be the first to take up foil and sabre again.
And being 6'4" and 180 pounds helps suggest to me epee too. :-)
-RAG
a...@b.com
Tim Schofield <t...@foxtree.co.uk> wrote:
Here's a post I can contribute something to, since I now get to fence
those "veteran" events. While each of the 3 weapons has its charms, and
each is fun onto itself, the fun starts to wear a little thin when you
wind up being not much more than a target for practice by anyone except
beginners. When those beginners are "kids" (any I have taken to calling
anyone under about 28 a "kid"), they quickly progress in foil and sabre
tp a point where their speed and ability to change direction quickly
negates any ability I have to push their buttons with cunning and guile.
Sure, I am dreadfully short in cunning and guile at times (well, most of
the time), but the fun gets in kinda short supply when you don't score
your share of touches because you simply can't move like a "kid"
anymore.
So, having recently taken up fencing at the ripe old age of 40, I have
stuck to epee, merely because I am physically suited to it. The shorter,
more subtle tactical game is not so heavily in favor of someone who can
lunge from their on guard line and hit me in the chest before I can
retreat to my 2 meter zone, and thence break out the big bag o' cunning
and guile. That stops being fun pretty quickly, and seems to be the norm
with foil and sabre. Medals and ratings are not the end all of this, but
it sure feels good to see progress. When someone comes up with a cure
for old age, I will be the first to take up foil and sabre again.
And being 6'4" and 180 pounds helps suggest to me epee too. :-)
-RAG
Richard Glover
rglover [at] lunarpoodle [dot] com
Fencerbill
gc...@southwind.net (Greg) writes:
Foil is an Art,
Epee is a Science,
but Sabre is a Romance.
If you love Sabre, hold out for it. Okay you are 45. That was about when I
started fencing again after laying off since college. Now it is 20 years even
later and I am still an incurable romantic. If you were born to be a Sabre
fencer, don't fight it. Learn to enjoy the occasional good touch and just don't
expect to outrun the kids.
There is nothing more indescribably delicious than a feint head, cut flank that
leaves some cocky punk 24 year old college graduate B-fencer in a useless head
parry with mustard on his drawers.
Besides, there is now the age of Veteran's Sabre where you are still a young
punk. Our division has at least three Veteran's days a year. Our last one in
May had 8 over-40 Sabreurs and Sabreuses fencing in the Great Hall at the
Higgins Armory Museum in Worcester with all the vacant (?) suits of armor
looking on. Kind of eerie but a hoot.
And there are two USFA NAC's a year for over-40 Sabre fencers as well as the
Summer Championships with a 40-49 age group event.
Look at it this way, you have about 5 years to get yourself into competitive
shape to compete for a slot on the US team to the World Veteran's Championships
50-59 age group. This year's Vets Worlds will be in Tampa on Labor Day, so drop
in if that is your neighborhood.
And, to further toot our own horn, the Veterans Challenge II will be near
Boston, on Sep 7-8, 2002, a week after Tampa, complete with Lobster Clambake
and a bunch of British Veterans, from early indications. Last year we had 16
Sabre fencers and the winner was even older than I am and is a Silver and
Bronze Veteran's World Championships medalist.
Come on and join the fun. Epee is nice but don't give up your dreams. And buy
Ibuprofin, you will probably need it as much as I do.
Bill Hall
John Trojanowski
I heard it as:
Sabre is Theatre
Foil is Art
Epee is Truth
Brandon Smith
> Foil is Art
> Epee is Truth
I like that!
At 55, after 20 years away, I do find I'm not nearly so fast anymore.
But it is fun. I went to an Open foil a couple months ago and lost
every bout, though none were skunks, except the times I went against a
really skilled flikcer under a director who "recognized" bent arm
attacks as having right of way. One of the other fencers was 75, and
I think both of us were there mainly for the fun of it.
My favorite has always been sabre, but the modern game is more like
jousting than fencing. So I was quite pleased when I went 14-15
against a 22 year old some months back, and the director complemented
us on "good fencing."
I'd say do all three until you find one you enjoy more. But in my
case, it is actually all three I enjoy, each has its own points and
its own kind of enjoyment. Since I've no great desire to win
everything in sight, I figure I can simply enjoy what I do when I can
afford to go to competitions. Plus give the tournement another
fencer.
Brandon Smith
Reggie Dablo
This is great fun. Occasionally, I'll bully the epee fencers in this game.
They get all that big target area and basically ignore right of way while I
follow strictly foil right of way rules...target area as well. You'd think
they'd just counter-attack the hell out of me but it amusingly goes my way
more times than not. Now against saber...I just don't have anything
programmed into my head against those bell ringing head-cuts.
dunmstr
I'm in the same age bracket actually add four more years.... but unless
you are long armed and fairly quick, and have not lost any of the
critical point control...any weapon would probably be the same (provided
you were pretty good in your younger days...) My perspective is all
weapons have evolve to slop..with the younger crowd..(have not made it to
the semi-finals so maybe it gets better there)..I don't think they know
what a feint is??? heck with strategy??? The ones I've faced
recently.... are all about 'flick attacks... not much strategy or
feinting here....
Other rule that will get you is the movement to attack (aka flick) that
is the 'ancient days would have be rule out of line... no threat to
target... and my well placed point in time (stop thrust) or taking the
line in tempo would have award me the point... alas alack... have to love
this "progress"...at the demise of the 'dance of the blades'.
On a good note .... what my fencing instructor of yesteryear would have
never accepted ...bent arm, "fishing for points"...all makes it easier to
pick the sport back up...
Personally, I would stay with what ever weapon you were most proficent at
in your heyday.. [ note with foil and sabre you have less distance to
travel to get to your opponent so those would be easier on those ole'
knees. eh?! :-) ]
Regarding sabre... remember the biggest challenge is the quick wrist tap
for the touch...this is something beginners do not do well... the number
of welts from crashing sabre hits made this one of my least favorite of
the three weapons...
For my knees....prior to fencing...30 minimal stretching - prior to
tourney...45min. weights for strength and flexing(at home)..after work
out(weights or fencing) - ice (5 to 10minutes), warm down, than moist
heat... (spa or tub), moving cartio vas..from running (5k 7:35/8 minute
miles) to bicycle(which is easier on joints)
Regardless...
Fence on...whatever weapon you choose.
Frank
Carsten Iltis
I heard it as:
Sabre is for Sirs
Foil is for Gentleman
Epee is for Warriors
seems quite realistic to me...
Carsten
Alison1daland
a few months ago, and 2 months in, my "front" knee got injured. "big deal, im
young (17)" is what i thought so i never let it heal right and now its a
chronic problem, unless i wear a brace when i fence. get knee braces (cheap
ones work just as well) or ace bandages. they'll give you the support you need
to keep from getting seriously injured and can fence any weapon you like, or
even all 3. (i personally prefer sabre as i have little patience and poor point
control. the motions also seemed alot more natural to me. i think my aggressive
and combative nature helps as well)
Greg Jones
news:417ef808.02070...@posting.google.com...
> "John Trojanowski" <jo...@trojanowski.com> wrote in message
news:<f0PR8.1476$4a2.1...@typhoon.austin.rr.com>...
> > Gee...
> > I heard it as:
> > Sabre is Theatre
> > Foil is Art
> > Epee is Truth
>
> I heard it as:
>
> Sabre is for Sirs
> Foil is for Gentleman
> Epee is for Warriors
Or, for those of you who gamble: Foil is poker, epee is blackjack, sabre is
craps.
--------------------
Greg Jones
gre...@pop.nwnexus.com
Mighty Warrior
"Greg Jones" <gre...@pop.nwnexus.com> wrote in message
news:agitbm$iv4$1...@brokaw.wa.com...
Epee is for the realist
Sabre is THE weapon
Chuck Andrasko
sabre and I still fence it but it is very fast and I can't quite keep
competitive. I can hold my own but I have lost a step or two. I have since
switched to epee and really enjoy it. Although epee is quite quick as it is
fenced now. It keeps me on my toes.
Try out the sabre and see how it goes. It will take more than a few months
to get back at it though. It took me more than a year of pretty heavy
training to feel comfortable again.
It is a great sport and keeps me in condition.
Good Luck and give it time. Be careful because I have found that injuries at
this age are much harder to come back from.
--
Thank You & God Bless
Chuck
cand...@adelphia.net
http://www.pbase.com/candrask
"Greg" <gc...@southwind.net> wrote in message
news:27ce0862.02062...@posting.google.com...
Delia M. Turner
to sabre. I don't have the patience for epee (or, my coach likes to
point out endlessly, the point control, though I do land some nifty
point touches in sabre). The funny thing is I'm definitely waaaay
slower now at 50 than I was in my 20s but I'm still managing to be
competitive by cultivating craft. Smaller footwork, tempo changes
rather than immediate speed, and as my Russian coach (an epeeist,
grant you) says, "Make provocation," which means get your opponents to
attack where you want them to.
Let me put it this way: A couple of years ago I tore my calf muscle
in the open team the day before I had to fence the Veteran (over-40)
Women's Sabre. I couldn't lunge and I couldn't really move much,
period. The thing was taped all the way up and hidden under my sock.
Nobody guessed. A young lady watching the pools even commented on how
fast I was. I made it all the way to the gold medal bout before Karen
Dorren discovered she could just run me down.
Personally, I think sabre is the ideal weapon for the older fencer.
Now if your coach is suggesting gently that you don't have the
*temperament* for sabre, that's different. When we get people who
looooove sabre but can't figure out right of way, and who love to
counter-attack and then stand there blinking in disbelief when the
touch isn't awarded to them, we gently ease them over to epee.
--Delia
gc...@southwind.net (Greg) wrote in message news:<27ce0862.02062...@posting.google.com>...