Fencing Slogan
Oon Hock Leong
sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
But it should be good. And memorable.
Anyway...i (and a few friends) have come up with a few. They are:
1) I only fence, but I fence HARD.
2) May our swords forever sing.
3) Pass the sword, please.
4) May our wires never break.
5) Can i touch u there?
Anyway, you get the idea.
Anybody has any other suggestions?
Chock
Bryan J. Maloney
First come, first severed.
--
What you say may very well be true, but it may also very well be irrelevant.
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/bjm10/
Remise
HMS Lion
Great and George Patton, so it's good enough for me).
V/R:
Mike McDaniel
D.S. Goldsmith K.S.C.
motto was "Where Do We Eat?" but in Latin, which I now forget.)
David
Kitt Burch
Oon Hock Leong wrote:
> Hi...I'm from Singapore and I would like some help in putting up some
> sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
>
> The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
> It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
> But it should be good. And memorable.
>
Fencing slogan, huh? What about "bouncy, bouncy, bouncy..." okay, never
mind that one... On our shirts at State we're planning on listing some
of the fencing mantras posted on the newsgroup mixed in with some
footwork drills. I've seen something similar with a percussion t-shirt
from chapel hill, and it was pretty cool.
Our front has an anime fencer (woo hoo) with "Touché" below it. Pretty
simple, but it makes a statement. (That statement being, of course,
touché.)
Kitt Burch
NCSU Fencing god
"May the right of way be with you."
Frank Pratt
> Hi...I'm from Singapore and I would like some help in putting up some
> sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
>
> The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
> It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
> But it should be good. And memorable.
>
> Anyway...i (and a few friends) have come up with a few. They are:
>
> 1) I only fence, but I fence HARD.
> 2) May our swords forever sing.
> 3) Pass the sword, please.
> 4) May our wires never break.
> 5) Can i touch u there?
>
> Anyway, you get the idea.
> Anybody has any other suggestions?
I can't take credit for this one, but it is my favorite:
"Foil fencers talk about their girlfriends,
Epee fencers talk about their weapons,
Sabre fecners talk about themselves."
-FGP
---------------------------------
Frank G. Pratt, III
fr...@tundra.org
---------------------------------
To E-Mail me via. Reply, be sure
to remove the "XX" in front of my
address.
Michael E. Friedman
>
> Hi...I'm from Singapore and I would like some help in putting up some
> sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
>
> The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
> It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
> But it should be good. And memorable.
>
> Anyway...i (and a few friends) have come up with a few. They are:
>
> 1) I only fence, but I fence HARD.
> 2) May our swords forever sing.
> 3) Pass the sword, please.
> 4) May our wires never break.
> 5) Can i touch u there?
>
> Anyway, you get the idea.
> Anybody has any other suggestions?
Foil and epee fencers have a point!
Fencing is simple, just hit your opponent and don't get hit.
Michael
dgol...@my-dejanews.com
Frequently heard around our club: "HIT SOMETHING!!!"
Dirk Goldgar
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Chock
>Frequently heard around our club: "HIT SOMETHING!!!"
that wouldn't be heard so often if foil eliminates off-target lights.
T. Melluish
: 1) I only fence, but I fence HARD.
: 2) May our swords forever sing.
: 3) Pass the sword, please.
: 4) May our wires never break.
: 5) Can i touch u there?
: Anyway, you get the idea.
: Anybody has any other suggestions?
Fencers do it with their fingers :)
Cheers,
Tom
HMBONNER
Robert "Joe" Estes
"Beat me, bind me, but don't touch me."
Kitt Burch wrote:
> Oon Hock Leong wrote:
>
> > Hi...I'm from Singapore and I would like some help in putting up some
> > sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
> >
> > The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
> > It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
> > But it should be good. And memorable.
> >
>
sab...@my-dejanews.com
oo...@cyberway.com.sg wrote:
> Hi...I'm from Singapore and I would like some help in putting up some
> sort of slogan on a fencing T-shirt I'm designing.
>
> The slogan may or may not be related to fencing.
> It may be informative, "cool", irreverant, or totally obtuse.
> But it should be good. And memorable.
>
Sigh....
Because NO ONE ELSE has had the bad taste to suggest it, even though everyone
has to have thought it...
Fencers foil around.
There. It's done. I'm a sabre fencer and happily married. I don't foil with
anything.
Regards, MR
FoiledU
"Feint is not passing out"
JonM4
"Everything in Epee is Target"
Scott A. Ambrose
University of Virginia Women's Team. . .
"The way to a man's heart is through his chest!"
God I love that slogan!
Scott Ambrose
"When in doubt, parry!"
Dick King
fencers do it with three feet of steel.
fencers do it with a deft touch.
"still plays with swords"
-dk
Jay Rudin
> fencers do it with three feet of steel.
If you're going to quote Cyrano, go ahead and use theoriginal form -- it
would look great on a t-shirt.
"Mine is longer by three feet of steel."
*Cyrano de Bergerac*, Edmond Rostand
(If you want to get pedantic, feel free to go look up
the original French.)
Jay Rudin
Will Ross
FencerAndy
Yves
Will Ross <wi...@ross65.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in article
<72st5c$o86$1...@newsreader5.core.theplanet.net>...
> "Plus fortuna quam judicio"
>
>
>
>
>
Jason Anderson
>
> We often use "Make fencing noises!"
Fencers yell when they touch!
Fencers curse when touched!
Kitt Burch
Jason Anderson wrote:
> Fencers yell when they touch!
>
> Fencers curse when touched!
I know it annoys everyone I fence, but when I really start to get into
the bout I start yelling things from my karate class. Everyone always
asks me what I'm saying, but I really can't tell them because I really
don't know. Still, it throws the other guy off for just a second, long
enough to exploit an open line...
I wonder if that's really legal.
-Kitt Burch
NCSU Fencing
abfa...@spacey.net
It's legal (or if it isn't then a lot of fencers are doing it anyways).
I, personally, find it annoying as hell when a fencer has to make some
loud exclaimation with every attack --even more so if I am not currently
fencing them --but to each his/her own. If it helps them out. My coach
is big on making these "pa-PAH!" sounds whenever she attacks, and has
even in practice tried to get us to follow suit but I just don't feel
comfortable making any sounds when I am trying to concentrate on my attack.
On a side note:
Particularly annoying is the fencer who has to loudly congradulate himself
whenever he/she gets a point. (And funny when the director later calls
it against them!!!)
Scott Allen Abfalter
FIT Fencing Club
> I know it annoys everyone I fence, but when I really start to get into
> the bout I start yelling things from my karate class. Everyone always
> asks me what I'm saying, but I really can't tell them because I really
> don't know. Still, it throws the other guy off for just a second, long
> enough to exploit an open line...
>
> I wonder if that's really legal.
>
> -Kitt Burch
> NCSU Fencing
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Chris Ward
>
>
>On a side note:
>Particularly annoying is the fencer who has to loudly congradulate himself
>whenever he/she gets a point. (And funny when the director later calls
>it against them!!!)
>
We were taught not to stop fencing until the director called a halt. I
think that the yelling after the touch as sort of "naturally" fallen off in
saber due to the influence of the electrical devices.
ed...@mux.net
courtesy of our local dead-languages scholar. They are both in Old French.
They are:
"Mort de fuir est coardie."
("Cowardice is the death of <mumble>")
"Le cervel od l'espee hors del chief le geta."
("He thrust his brains from his head with his sword.")
James Demarest
hit yourself. (Brilliant huh)
Kitt Burch wrote in message <36470D7E...@unity.ncsu.edu>...
>
>
Douglas Higgins
>
> The key to winning at fencing is simple. Hit you opponent with out getting
> hit yourself. (Brilliant huh)
abfa...@spacey.net
When I was first taking up fencing I was in one of my earliest bouts and
one of the instructors went to my opponent to give him advice. Not wanting
me to be left out, the other instructor walked over to me and whispered into
my ear: "Nick is over there telling the other guy how to hit you. Don't let
that happen."
Sage advice; albiet a bit obvious!
(Nick Valenti, are you out there somewhere?!?!?)
Scott Allen Abfalter
FIT Fencing Club
Melbourne, FL
In article <738kpo$qj9$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
"James Demarest" <gai...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> The key to winning at fencing is simple. Hit you opponent with out getting
> hit yourself. (Brilliant huh)
>
> Kitt Burch wrote in message <36470D7E...@unity.ncsu.edu>...
> >
> >
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Wayne C. McCullough
: The key to winning at fencing is simple. Hit you opponent with out getting
: hit yourself. (Brilliant huh)
That is what I try and tell my students... do they listen... nooooo!
(on my club's T-Shirt:
I don't fence because it make me popular,
I don't fence to get on a cereal box,
I don't fence to frighten small children,
I fence because there is a sword wielding
psychopath on the piest. (that and I look
good in white).
)
W
Jay Rudin
> When I was first taking up fencing I was in one of my earliest bouts and
> one of the instructors went to my opponent to give him advice. Not wanting
> me to be left out, the other instructor walked over to me and whispered into
> my ear: "Nick is over there telling the other guy how to hit you. Don't let
> that happen."
>
> Sage advice; albiet a bit obvious!
Actually, this is very useful knowledge. If I know what my opponent
will do, then I should get the point. If I know which coach advised
him, I probably know what he will do.
A couple of years ago I knew Eric had given my opponent advice on how
to beat me. I thought, "OK, he'll be expecting me to initiate, and
he'll retreat and do the same kind of parry-riposte that Eric does."
So I never got close to him, and went after his wrist instead. Eric
would have seen what I was doing and adjusted, but the kid was
blindly following his instructions. Once I knew that, he was mine.
Jay Rudin
host
>
>
>It's legal (or if it isn't then a lot of fencers are doing it anyways).
>I, personally, find it annoying as hell when a fencer has to make some
>loud exclaimation with every attack
The other day i was fencing a friendly with another friend presiding. My
oponnent on the word "fence" said "your shoelace is undone" i looked down
and WHAM he had me. Apparently there are no rules as such, although i think
i read that you cannot communicate with your oponnent<?>, still it made us
laugh!
>On a side note:
>Particularly annoying is the fencer who has to loudly congradulate himself
>whenever he/she gets a point. (And funny when the director later calls
>it against them!!!)
>
I'll have to admit to that one, if i get a hit which i know i intended to
get, Wow. . .talk about satisfaction, and that has to come with a certain
amount of verbial recognition:)
hugo
Dirk Goldgar
<912086859.12055.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <733pn7$gbn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, abfa...@spacey.net wrote:
>
>>I, personally, find it annoying as hell when a fencer has to make some
>>loud exclaimation with every attack
>
>The other day i was fencing a friendly with another friend presiding. My
>oponnent on the word "fence" said "your shoelace is undone" i looked down
>and WHAM he had me. Apparently there are no rules as such, although i think
>i read that you cannot communicate with your oponnent<?>, still it made us
>laugh!
Actually, this breaks the rule about conducting a "frank and courteous
encounter," and would not be tolerated in a competition. It's only in the
friendly bouts that you get to cheat like that! (;-)
>>On a side note:
>>Particularly annoying is the fencer who has to loudly congradulate himself
>>whenever he/she gets a point. (And funny when the director later calls
>>it against them!!!)
>>
>I'll have to admit to that one, if i get a hit which i know i intended to
>get, Wow. . .talk about satisfaction, and that has to come with a certain
>amount of verbial recognition:)
My own reaction is usually, "What? Didn't you expect to get the touch?
Then why all the fuss?"
>hugo
Dirk Goldgar
(to reply via email, remove NOSPAM from address)
Dragon9
host wrote:
> In article <733pn7$gbn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, abfa...@spacey.net wrote:
>
>
> >It's legal (or if it isn't then a lot of fencers are doing it anyways).
> >I, personally, find it annoying as hell when a fencer has to make some
> >loud exclaimation with every attack
Well, I'll say that for me I do it more so out of the same philosophy from
martial arts than anything else. It gives me a quicker sharper attack (Just
like in martial arts the expelling of air or a kiai will allow for a stronger
punch or kick).
> >On a side note:
> >Particularly annoying is the fencer who has to loudly congradulate himself
> >whenever he/she gets a point. (And funny when the director later calls
> >it against them!
You have to remember that this started in dry sabre as means to influence
scorig of touches that were hard to see. Secondly, I put a big distinction
between the person who oopas when they hit and the one who shouts in your face
after every hit (Like the guy I saw who after every call that didn't go his way
that he argued, on the next touch he'd pump his fist and shout out "Oh yeah!
Thank you very much!"). Getting in your opponents face and barking, shouting,
etc, borders on unsportsmanlike conduct IMHO, and whenever I'm directing a bout
at my salle I call it that way. Thirdly... It can also be used as a
psychological weapon... and if it's annoying the snot out of you then it's
working because then you're not thinking solely about the match.
Evan Miller
--
My Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/6374
The Dragon Project (Manga Translation)
http://members.tripod.com/~Dragon09
The Project Script Archive
http://members.xoom.com/Dragon9
Evan's Quote of the month:
"It will yet be the proud boast of women that they never
contributed a line to the Bible."
-- George W. Foote
jjackson
wrote:
In general I suspect this insulting and inconsiderate habit is possibly
the main reason that I gave up competing, but also...
>
>
> host wrote:
>
> > In article <733pn7$gbn$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, abfa...@spacey.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > >It's legal (or if it isn't then a lot of fencers are doing it anyways).
Legal? Unfortunately the written 'laws' in fencing aren't the ones
used! (see definition of right of way in foil).
> > >I, personally, find it annoying as hell when a fencer has to make some
> > >loud exclaimation with every attack
>
> Well, I'll say that for me I do it more so out of the same philosophy from
> martial arts than anything else. It gives me a quicker sharper attack (Just
> like in martial arts the expelling of air or a kiai will allow for a stronger
> punch or kick).
The mechanisms of making a good hit in fencing and eg karate are
completely different - explosive movements in fencing tend to be
inaccurate and unstealthy, not to mention undesirably heavy-handed.
>Getting in your opponents face and barking, shouting,
> etc, borders on unsportsmanlike conduct IMHO, and whenever I'm directing a bout
> at my salle I call it that way.
It's a shame more refs don't do that.
>Thirdly... It can also be used as a
> psychological weapon... and if it's annoying the snot out of you then it's
> working because then you're not thinking solely about the match.
Yes, it can be very distracting. But I would like to draw attention to
a fourth consideration: much of the fun in fencing comes from working
out how best to adapt to what's just happened. To do this, you have to
use what's still in your memory just after the last move - and some
bovine utterance from your opponent is just the thing to flush your
short-term memory. I consider serious shouters fair game for any
devious ploy you might like to play on them.
>
> Evan Miller
>
> Evan's Quote of the month:
>
> "It will yet be the proud boast of women that they never
> contributed a line to the Bible."
> -- George W. Foote
Not written directly perhaps, but the bit where Debra nailed her
husbands head to the floor was a contribution not to be ignored, and
pure OT!
John V Jackson jjac...@interalpha.co.uk
--
Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway.
http://www.talkway.com
Jessie Micales
>psychological weapon... and if it's annoying the snot out of you then it's
>working because then you're not thinking solely about the match.
>
Although sometimes it can have the opposite effect. I've fenced my best bouts
when my opponent has really annoyed me by screaming in my face or whining to
the ref. Makes me REALLY want to hit them! :-)
Jessie
dmtu...@compuserve.com
what comes out of my mouth is "Hiiiii-YAH!" like cartoon karate. I don't
even say, "po po po," or "Et la!" I scream freaking "Hiiii-YAH!" And I can't
help it. I used to really look down on people who yelled when they fenced,
and I know it's annoying, but there are times--and touches, and
opponents--when the action is so intense I make noise. As a friend who was
directing the last tournament I fenced remarked, "Well, we know which touches
she really cares about, don't we?"
There is NOTHING like making a second-intention action four layers deep into
an exchange that takes less than a second to complete and you didn't realize
you meant to do it until it was over.
--Delia
In article <73pu68$ps2$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
--
***
Delia Marshall Turner, Ph.D.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dmturner/
Dragon9
jjackson wrote:
> > Well, I'll say that for me I do it more so out of the same philosophy from
> > martial arts than anything else. It gives me a quicker sharper attack (Just
> > like in martial arts the expelling of air or a kiai will allow for a stronger
> > punch or kick).
>
> The mechanisms of making a good hit in fencing and eg karate are
> completely different - explosive movements in fencing tend to be
> inaccurate and unstealthy, not to mention undesirably heavy-handed.
Well, then you haven't fenced me. ;) Okay, maybe that's tooting my own horn, but I
do pride myself as a sabre fencer with a light touch (probably because my original
coach taught it as a finesse style rather than a power style). Are they different?
Yes they are, but hey, it works for me. YMMV of course and that's okay. :)
> >Getting in your opponents face and barking, shouting,
> > etc, borders on unsportsmanlike conduct IMHO, and whenever I'm directing a bout
> > at my salle I call it that way.
>
> It's a shame more refs don't do that.
Yes... and I'm talking about the in your face screaming. I saw a kid at the
Nationals here in Cincinnati fencing sabre one time who after every touch got in his
opponents face, howled then barked like a dog. Whoooooooo! Ruff! I wanted to smak
him. The ones who get the hit and give a hey-la! or Oo-pa! don't bather me in the
slightest.
> >Thirdly... It can also be used as a
> > psychological weapon... and if it's annoying the snot out of you then it's
> > working because then you're not thinking solely about the match.
>
> Yes, it can be very distracting. But I would like to draw attention to
> a fourth consideration: much of the fun in fencing comes from working
> out how best to adapt to what's just happened. To do this, you have to
> use what's still in your memory just after the last move - and some
> bovine utterance from your opponent is just the thing to flush your
> short-term memory. I consider serious shouters fair game for any
> devious ploy you might like to play on them.
True... the same guy I was talking about before, after doing that his opponent paried
and gave him a big ol' whack across the chest. It was very funny... me, I tend to go
for the inner thigh...
Evan Miller
--
My Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/soho/lofts/6374
The Dragon Project (Manga Translation)
http://members.tripod.com/~Dragon09
The Project Script Archive
http://members.xoom.com/Dragon9
Evan's Quote of the month:
Dragon9
Thundercat?
Douglas Higgins
of the match considers to be a taunt, direct or indirect, gets called
for unsportsmanlike conduct (i.e. attempting to verbally intimidate,
yelling in opponent's face, and/or simply congradulating oneself on a
touch in an unnecessarily overt manner). Other sounds are perfectly
acceptible, I believe.
Personally, I prefer to let my epee do the talking.
Still, the ocassional low growl is good for the soul.
'Iggins
P.S. An interesting spin off of this conversation might be to discuss
how body language and sounds of an opponent give away what he is
thinking, what sort of mood he is in, what sort of fencer he is,
and so on... making it easier for the opponent to create a quick
and easy strategy to beat him. Or how by listening to your
opponent, you can find out what sort of tactics tend to get him
angry (angry opponents want to hurt you, people who want to hurt
you are easily beaten... and you can live with a few bruises ;)
There's actually quite a lot to talk about in the "fencing mind
games" topic, but I haven't seen very much discussion of this on
this newsgroup.
Kitt Burch
people who feel like they have to congratulate themselves after every
point should be shot, in my humble opinion.
There is a distinct difference, however, when the fencer isn't a jerk
about it. I know that when i get frustrated i tend to mutter old katate
phrases. It just helps get me into the fencing mindset. It's not
necessarily true that a kiai accompanies an uncontrolled explosive
attack. The kiai, in it's purest form, is all spiritual. It's just a
focus that's used to achieve that one moment of instintuak response...
In fencing it can be the same way. There are some people out there who,
for whatever reason, feel the need to yell at their opponent, at their
blade, at the judges, at anything. When i "yell" it's not for any of
these reasons. Just like different schools of fencing have different
theories about bouncing, it follows that there can be different theories
about yelling.
Not that i'm being anal or anything, I just don't like being told that
i'm being un-sportsman-like.
-Kitt Burch
NCSU Fencing ( NCSU-Ryu France-No-Kenjutsu )
Frank Pratt
> I have always seen it called that any vocalizations which the director
> of the match considers to be a taunt, direct or indirect, gets called
> for unsportsmanlike conduct (i.e. attempting to verbally intimidate,
> yelling in opponent's face, and/or simply congradulating oneself on a
> touch in an unnecessarily overt manner). Other sounds are perfectly
> acceptible, I believe.
>
> <snip>
Be careful with your termanology. "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" is a Group IV
(Black Card) offence, not just a yellow card! I am personally pretty
tolerant of yelling after touches, provided that is is more of a
celebration than a taunt, and thus I think a Black Card is a little
etreme.
If a fencer's yelling on the strip is really inappropiate, I would warn
him the first time and give him a yellow card the second time for
"disobedience." If it continues, you could give hiom another 1st group
penalty (i.e. a Red Card) or go to the Thrid Group and give him a Red Card
for distirbing order on the strip.
-FGP
---------------------------------
Frank G. Pratt, III
fr...@tundra.org
---------------------------------
To E-Mail me via. Reply, be sure
to remove the "XX" in front of my
address.
Matthew J. Clausen
wonderful distinction. There are fencers who hit and yell, and then there
are fencers who hit, look at the box, and yell. The later is celebrating
the point, while the former is celebrating the touche. I try to be a
fencer who celebrates the touche.
From my own experience, I once had some yahoo repeatedly fail to land his
fleche against me (more from his improper execution than anything I was
doing). After three or four of these, I fleched him instead and landed
quite solidly. As I walked past him to return to en garde I gave a nice,
low heh heh heh. Childish, I know, but damn if it didn't feel good.
}8-)=-
matt
PrmeTme714
Samuel Lillard
Ooooooooooo Paaaaaaaa
dmtu...@compuserve.com
two sabreuses whom I respect advised me that I have to go back to yelling
when I know I have the touch . . . twice, because I didn't yell, the director
didn't realize that my opponent's attack had fallen short and called her
remise the attack. When I talked to him after the pool he said, "Yeah, she
was doing that (attack remise)during the pool," so I suspect he might have
seen it if I'd celebrated the touch more.
<sigh> I was restraining myself from yelling this weekend, partly because a
couple of guys at my club hate it so much and partly because of this thread.
The gentle art of fencing the director . . .
Diates
Yell, for heavens sake!!! Everyone I know does it. Just be on key!
How was the tournament, BTW?
Deborah
(aka. Samantha's mom)
Nicolas Sallembien
during the bout, not between touches.
I like to yell at the end of the bout. It sometimes becomes so tensed that I can't
help it. I just yell, whatever comes out of my mind. And I never remember what
kind of noises I make ;-). But I agree, it is a very good psychological weapon.
Imagine a bout where you are tied 12-12, or something similar. You score. Maybe it
is a nice soft touch on the toe, or a virile counter-attack in octave, but anyway,
it IS a nice touch. It does not give you the bout, but the score is 13-12. Even if
I made the touch because I was lucky, or if I don't feel I touched, when I see the
light, I would yell. Just to make my opponent think : "This guy is not kidding,
and he has just scored a decisive touch". I won't yell in his face though. I would
rather turn around and then I would yell as much as I can. There have been some
competitions where I would leave the venue with a sour throat and a broken voice
because I yelled to much. But I don't consider my behavior unsportmanship. It all
depends on how the yell is made ;-).
Last thing : don't yell after the director ;-).
Nicolas.
Mark Orton
Nicolas Sallembien <nsall...@inprise.com> wrote:
> Yelling after the touch has been made never hurts. What's illegal is to yell
> during the bout, not between touches.
Well, actually what's illegal is "to make any gestures or comments - except
the acknowledgement of a touch as allowed - that might influence the
decisions of the jury, or to acknowledge, after the referee's decision, a
touch that has not been awarded."
That, or anything that the referee thinks disturbs the order or constitutes
unsportsmanlike conduct.
-Mark-
dmtu...@compuserve.com
because it didn't draw quite as many competitors (67 for the women's sabre
instead of 87, for instance). For the last three years I have gritted my
teeth about the expense, but the venue is nice and there's plenty of room.
The local people are really nice and work hard.
Can't report on many results because I was concentrating on the women's sabre,
which Chris Becker won (and Judy Cummins won the veteran women's sabre) - I
think Zaddick Longenbach won the men's foil.
Shall take screaming lessons to ensure I'm tuneful <snicker>.
--Delia
In article <19981214151938...@ng-fb2.aol.com>,
--
***
Delia Marshall Turner, Ph.D.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dmturner/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
sab...@my-dejanews.com
Mark....@pulse.com (Mark Orton) wrote:
> In article <367576EE...@inprise.com>,
> Nicolas Sallembien <nsall...@inprise.com> wrote:
> > Yelling after the touch has been made never hurts. What's illegal is to yell
> > during the bout, not between touches.
>
> Well, actually what's illegal is "to make any gestures or comments - except
> the acknowledgement of a touch as allowed - that might influence the
> decisions of the jury, or to acknowledge, after the referee's decision, a
> touch that has not been awarded."
>
> That, or anything that the referee thinks disturbs the order or constitutes
> unsportsmanlike conduct.
>
> -Mark-
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
First of all, I yell almost everytime I lunge. A lusty "hey-la." I do it
when I practice footwork alone, I do it in lessons, I do it in drills, I do
it in bouts.
If I catch the bad guy out with a second intention quinte-belly cut, I tend to
really yell loudly, generally a "hey-pa-hey-ho-la!"
Both of these events are pretty automatic--I don't think, "I've lunged, now
I'll yell." I yell during the lunge.
I hold my breath during a flunge. Bad habit.
I will also, if I'm fencing a good fencer, with a lousy director, and the
director awards me a touch that was clearly my opponent's, give my opponent a
small salute as we are getting en garde for the next touch. Just to
acknowledge that I know as well as he did what happened during the action.
Almost everyone I know does the same. I will also give my opponent a little
salute if he does something really nifty. Maybe bad form, psychologically,
but you have to admire good fencing. I've never known a director to comment.
On somewhat the same topic, I note a lot of discussion on this board,
primarily from my countrymen across the pond (ie., from Americans/Yanks in
the U.S.), detailing violations and the appropriate card for each.
In the last two years, I've fenced in several national level competitions
here in Germany. I've also watched the finals of the sabre Grand Prix in
Bonn twice.
I have never seen anyone given a card, or an official warning. Rather,
directors will briefly explain their decision, including the reason they
awarded right of way the way they did. I once saw a director gently and
unofficially warn a young fencer that if he continued to question
right-of-way decisions, he was probably going to make the director angry, and
he probably didn't want to do that. The young fencer was very quiet for the
remainder of the bout. I once suggested to a coach and teammates of a fencer
in a bout I was directing that they were being a little overzealous in their
discussion of my decisions, and asked them to be quiet. They moved back and
didn't give me any more flack.
IMHO, the whole card thing is a little ridiculous. The rules have always
described various violations, and the penalties for each. At the same time,
tournaments are learning experiences as well as competitive events. It has
been very useful for me to have directors explain, briefly, the logic behind
their decisions. I've asked for and received short lessons in directing and
the current way that attacks are called from several very good directors
after a pool or team bout.
Giving a card, except in cases of truly egregious misbehavior, pisses
everyone off, and disrupts the bout. The fencers think more about the card
than about fencing. And the director is committed then, to following up with
further cards if the situation reccurs.
A gentle, verbal admonishment is generally all that is needed, and keeps the
focus on fencing, not on a legalistic approach to the bout.
But again, this is all predicated on good directors who are respected by the
fencers. A bad director is a nightmare for all concerned. In sabre, there
is nothing worse than a director who cannot or will not make the very fine
distinctions in time that exist in modern fencing. This leads inevitably to
a long string of simultaneous attacks, because neither fencer wins advantage
from breaking tempo before his opponent, and neither wants to risk a bad
decision from the director.
I may not always agree with the director, but I know from my own directing
that actions look very different from the side of the strip than they do on
the strip. What I think was a beautiful flying quinte pris de fer may look
like an insufficient parry-riposte to the director. What I think was a
simultaneous attack might clearly look like my preparation, my opponent's
attack into preparation, my counter-attack. But I do like to be able to ask,
respectfully, for clarification of the action--so I can try to do better.
My two cents.
Mark Ray
aka "sabreur"
Chi-Ho Lee
going out of styles. Foriegn referees are much more lax about it.
There's nothing wrong with yelling, fencers yell to psyche themselves
up, psyche out opponent, and yes, to influence referees on iffy points.
Every top level fencers do it, domestic and abroad. World cup sabre -
they yell after every single touch, Tarantino, Pozniakov, Touya. Even
in epee where yelling doesn't influence as much, they still yell.
If you are a serious competetive fencer, especially on the Ciruit,
yelling is just another tool you use to win.