Gardere Grip????
Sam & Sandra Signorelli
can hold it a couple of differenmt ways without trading somethoing for
anjotjher. Example. If you "post" (shift your grip so your hand's more
toward the pommel) with a French grip, you're trading power for
distance. With the gardere, you could post and still have a couple of
things sticking out to maintain the power of a pistol grip.
Sam Signorelli
Civamd
I had one (they aren't illegal here), it was the worst grip I ever used. I
seem to remember they were designed so someone with a french foil could fit
an orthpaedic grip without buying a new blade, a good idea in theory.
Civamd
laloum...@jpmorgan.com
Civamd <civ...@pp.hw.ac.uk> wrote:
> I had one (they aren't illegal here), it was the worst grip I ever
used. I
> seem to remember they were designed so someone with a french foil
could fit
> an orthpaedic grip without buying a new blade, a good idea in theory.
Not quite...
Professor Gardere was a French fencing master who lost a finger in an
accident. This affected his blade/point control, so he designed a new
version of the French grip which had protrusions to provide support,
while still having a true pommel, and the traditional underlying French
grip shape, to ensure good finger control.
Many fencers believed this gave an unfair advantage, in that it could be
used byt gripping closer to the pommel (like many epeeists do) while
still getting enhanced support from the protrusions... politics ensued
and it was illegalised.
Seems to me that swordsmanship is about who has the greatest skills, and
that the skills and technique vary with the grip and are fundamentally
irrelevant, I rekon all grips should be legal and may the best man (or
woman) win....
Bye for now & happy Fencing
David Laloum
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
GKiw
grip more then one way? It would just be part of the competion, although i
could see problems with extending the grip so as to get around blade length
regulations, but a maximum length could be set. I think it would be kind of
interesting to switch between hand positions at different times as part of my
strategy.
George
Stephan Khinoy
French grip and the short, crossed, Italian grip, which was strapped to the
wrist. The Italian offered superior strength and security; the French offered
superior point control when gripped in the usual way, plus the option of holding
the weapon back near the pommel for greater length and angulation. Orthopedic
grips, properly used (which isn't always the case), offer a combination of the
virtues of the French and Italian. The rulemakers didn't want to allow the
possibility of gaining the advantages of the orthopedic and adding tothem the
French grip's advantageof an increased-length option.
This could have been resolved differently: simply require the fencer who uses a
weapon that "fixes or determines" the hand on the grip to hold the weapon in the
determined position.
Steve Khinoy
SKA Swordplay Books
Jan Rudolph
I thought that the possibility of holding the grip near tzhe pommel and still
having control over the grip would have been th emain pronlem, even though I do
not see or better am not aware of the grip being illegal by FIE standarts, but -
I would accept if someone proves me wrong... Due to some injuries - not by
fencing and, hey, especially not due to injuries sustainted by accidents
accountable to orthopaedic grips ;o) - I had been forced out of fencing for quite
a while... So I am not that up to date with the technical stuff which has
somewhat changed over the time.
However: I think, and this is my very own oppinion which seems to be
unchangeable, that the grip is only a matter of taste. I know that some people
would argue about that, even maybe going so far as to accounting some fatal
accidents to the orthopaedic grips, which is not that uncommon actually. But the
only near fatal accident (and unfortunately it really was near fatal) I saw
"live" was with a French grip but i.m.o. only accountable to the poor protective
equipment the opponent used: A mask that was declared as a "practice/training
mask only" due to the fact that the wires had not been fixed properly. I always
wonderd why those were still legal, since I decided early on that, no matter what
grip my opponent was to use I did not wind up beeing "gifted" with some metal
stuck anywhere in my body. However (well, this is getting wuite long by now...),
during my studies at the University of Calgary in 1995/96 I figuerd that in the
University fencing club it was quite usual that the fencers would not even wear
kevlar plastrons unter their simple cotton jackets and that my FIE licensed
jacket, pants and mask were the extravaganza there...
GKiw wrote:
> I've always wondered about grip legalities, whats the matter with holding the
> grip more then one way? It would just be part of the competion, although i
> could see problems with extending the grip so as to get around blade length
> regulations, but a maximum length could be set. I think it would be kind of
> interesting to switch between hand positions at different times as part of my
> strategy.
>
> George
As for the "grip extension problem": As I said in another context ("Italian
grip"), some (more amateur) fencers are even unaware that the possiblity to use
the French grip for extending the range while shifting towards the pommel is
considered legal by the FIE. I remeber some really excellent French fencers and
as far as I know Elmar Bormann (I hope that I did spell the name correctly) using
the grip in that way. On the other hand, at times when I still used the French
grip, I was occasionally carded, once even carded black by some ignorant director
and the t.d. for using the grip at the outer most possible and legal end. First
they said: It's illegal. Which was wrong. Then the argument was that I was being
unfair. Well, tough luck. It's legal. Anyway, I think that as long as the fencer
has propoer control over the weapon (which is the main requirement for fencing
tournaments) he should be allowed to hold his weapon in any way he wishes to do
so. Even though one will have to consider that changing the grip position between
calls is illegal, which is absolutely o.k. since that compromises stability of
the weapon and can, indeed, cause danger to the opponent and others.
Grips, grips, grips... :o)
Jan