Who seeded worlds, Team Canada?
ajax...@gmail.com
The seeds are:
1. Canada
2. USA
3. Aus.
4. Gr. Brit
5. Japan
These look terrible. Canada gets Sweden as their 2 seed while USA and
Japan kill each other in the same pool. It makes no sense,
I would have seeded it as follows:
1. USA
2. Japan
3. Canada
4. Aus.
5. Gr. Brit
after that i don't think in matters much as far as medal winners
discussion.
blw
> I would have seeded it as follows:
> 1. USA
> 2. Japan
> 3. Canada
> 4. Aus.
> 5. Gr. Brit
> after that i don't think in matters much as far as medal winners
> discussion.
Based on most recent results, I'd seed it as:
1. Japan
2. USA
3. Canada
4. Australia
5. GB
However...WFDF said long ago that they seed based on their own
previous tournament. So it seems unlikely that they will change the
seeding. Fine; it may be a weird basis, but at least it is a
consistent and objective one.
More importantly...check out the current format. As of now, it goes to
power pools, and then straight to semis. Meaning you could miss out on
the medal round with only 1 loss (in the right 3-way tie). It also
means that, if seeds hold, the 4-seed makes it into the semis and the
5-seed never gets a chance to play them for that spot.
This should:
a) make UPA members feel lucky we have a really excellent format
manual, and
b) inspire some change in the format, hopefully.
Due credit: WFDF hasn't called the format 'final' yet, so there may
still be some opportunity for change.
blw
T
These seeds look like they were done with the help of a poodle at 1:30
in the morning in a dark tractor trailer on a mac laptop after
consuming four shots of everclear and seven games of guiter hero.
Two and a half of these are true.
T
scoop
Parinella
Wow, it makes the US-Japan game (Tuesday at 5, only game for either
team that day) all that much more important. The winner gets
(probably) Sweden and GB in their power pool. The loser gets Canada
and Australia to fight it out for two semis spots.
At least they are using the UPA three-way tiebreaker (decide all three
places using goal differential) instead of the FIFA method (determine
first by goal differential, then second goes to the remaining team
that beat the other).
What's the UPA tournament manual say for an 18 team, 7 day tournament
with no more than 2 games per day?
seanc
> Two and a half of these are true.
>
> T
... everclear, poodle, pc laptop?
Rich Johnston
Do they give any rationale for breaking out from power pools to semis
instead of quarters? One extra game for each of the top 8 open teams
(making 12 games total) wouldn't seem to be overly difficult to
accommodate over a week of play, and it wouldn't change the format for
anybody else. You'd still have the potential for a 3-way tie at 2-3
that would eliminate one of the three teams, but thats a lot less
harsh than possibly being eliminated with a single original pool loss
that carries into the power pool.
Nicklas
I think the only way to make it fair is to use previous results.
For eaxample Sweden won against Japan 2004 in Finland with 17-14.
Those teams havent played eachother since then.
So Sweden wouldnt have a chance to make their seed better because they
havent played Japan and neither USA,Canada and Australia.
Sweden finished fourth last time and are now seeded 6th because of
their loss agains GB 14-15 at Europeans last year.
And team Canada isnt just Furious so hard to compare them as well.
With Goat pickups and so on they will for sure be better.
Maybe you should have quarters.
This is worlds and you have to perform when you need to. I think
having backdoor stuff is unique for Frisbee and would never happen in
other sports, soccer worlds for example. need to perform when you
have to. Shouldnt get a second oppurtunity.
Their you have 4 team in every pool. You your games to perform to
reach playoffs no second chanses.
In mostly other sport they have different seeding groups. Then they
draw pool from that. In our case that would mean that USA and Japan
could still be in the same pool.
Having 2 games a day is also very unique. At big established sports
you have like in game in 3-4 days. Hockey, soccer for example.
Playing 10 games in a week means that whe it is time for final ther
are always some dudes injured and they dont have 100% fresh legs.
But we dont earn any money on our sport and can be away 14-30 days.
If Japan are that good they will probably beat USA in first pool or
Canada and Aus in second pool.
My experinece from worlds is that it never turns out as you thought.
2004 Finland reached final for women.
1998 Japan reached final for Open.
2004 Australia fineshed 3rd Open.
Just some examples lately.
simonatalbot
followed by quarters? Potentially you could have a team that won 3
games taking out the gold over a team that won 9 games.
Douglia
bump
joe
Its actually 4 and 8...1 win in round robin, followed by wins in
quarters, semis, and finals. For the 8 wins...7 possible wins in
round robin, semis win, would make 8 wins. The 4 wins would be pretty
obsurd. You would have to go 1-6, be tied for 6th, win the tie
breaker, then beat the 3, 2 and (most likely) 1 seed on your way to
victory. If you can do that...mad props you deserve it.
Parinella
> On Jul 24, 5:42 am, simonatalbot <SATal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The one that's got me is why the Junior Open comp is a round robin
> > followed by quarters? Potentially you could have a team that won 3
> > games taking out the gold over a team that won 9 games.
>
I think this is to give them enough games. 7 round robin plus 3
elimination games is still only 10 games over 6 days.
Re: adding quarters to Open, not sure there is enough room in the
schedule. Semis are Friday afternoon, but no fields are open prior to
that. Also, you would need two more rounds for the consolation games,
and would want to conclude those on Friday, and that would violate the
max 2 games per day.
Re: unfairness to US or Japan, they actually have a better chance at
making semis than do Canada or Australia. Whoever wins that game is
almost guaranteed to make semis (50% chance right there), and whoever
loses still has roughly a 2/3 chance at making semis, for a total of
5/6 chance (vs roughly 2/3 for Canada and Australia, making the
probably-not-right assumption that any of these teams will beat every
other team all the time. But this is balanced out by the winner of US/
Japan being guaranteed a tough semi, whereas the winner of the other
power pool has a relatively easy semi. If you change the assumptions
about how good each of the teams are, it could be an advantage or a
disadvantage to any of the teams.
Adam Tarr
> Re: adding quarters to Open, not sure there is enough room in the
> schedule. Semis are Friday afternoon, but no fields are open prior to
> that. Also, you would need two more rounds for the consolation games,
> and would want to conclude those on Friday, and that would violate the
> max 2 games per day.
You are correct that quarters cannot be tacked onto the existing
schedule. However, there are at least three viable alternate
approaches to pool play which leave enough time/field space for
quarters.
> Re: unfairness to US or Japan, they actually have a better chance at
> making semis than do Canada or Australia. Whoever wins that game is
> almost guaranteed to make semis (50% chance right there), and whoever
> loses still has roughly a 2/3 chance at making semis, for a total of
> 5/6 chance (vs roughly 2/3 for Canada and Australia, making the
> probably-not-right assumption that any of these teams will beat every
> other team all the time. But this is balanced out by the winner of US/
> Japan being guaranteed a tough semi, whereas the winner of the other
> power pool has a relatively easy semi. If you change the assumptions
> about how good each of the teams are, it could be an advantage or a
> disadvantage to any of the teams.
Granted. I think the broader point, though, is that the 5 seed (or 2
seed) could play consistently like the 4th best team, and finish 5th.
I see this as a problem, particularly since that would probably lead
to them being seeded 5th again next time. In a tournament like
worlds, some concern should be given to allowing teams to bubble up
and bubble down in seeding.
Wagenwheel
What channel can I catch the action on?
Adam Dyer
Isn't the real issue with the color scheme they chose? That's just
god awful...
Also, why is Women's Team USA (Fury) seeded 3rd (I don't know previous
world's results)?
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think the '04 gold game was Canada vs Finland, with USA taking the
bronze.
I think someone needs to explain to me again why people are
challenging the process in the 11th hour (and :50 minutes), rather
than getting involved on a proactive basis ahead of time?
simonatalbot
There's 8 teams, and they all play quarter finals.
Team A wins all pool matches (7), then quarter, then semi = in the
final with 9 wins
Team B loses all pool matches, then wins the quarter, then semi, then
final = gold medal with 3 wins.
A better format might be round robin, then a play-in round to semis.
Semi A - 1st plays the winner of 4v5
Semi B - 2nd plays the winner of 3v6
7th play 8th for last spot, losers of the play-ins play for 5/6.
That would give 1st and 2nd 9 games, 3rd-6th 10 games and 7th-8th 9
games.
dsb
Are you serious?
cause...
you know...
so you think you can dance was on...
and...
yeah...
DEVY...@gmail.com
Then those two teams would play in quarters - the 1st plays 8th. It
could be 9 games and 4 games, though.
morrison...@gmail.com
well, i think, with worlds every 4 years now, that 'prior results' is
a bit shady. frankly, if you asked the top teams, i'd hope they'd
say, 'hey, a game every day? if we can't get up for that, then we
don't deserve to win.'
that said:
seeding might encompass, anything wfdfy. this may help seed the euros
well, but with teams like US, CDN, JPN, and AUS, maybe there could be
qualifiers...
honestly, i really think the saddest thing that's happened in my
'watch' is the end of everyother year worlds... i guess there is a
reason, but the days of club worlds were really wonderful. for me,
vancouver (97), st. andrews (99), and then, the first of the revamped
schedule (hawaii 2002) are 3 of my best memories of frisbee.
i realize there is some 'olympic' schedule that we're trying to
match, but why not run the world games schedule independently of the
club and national team worlds.
i'm saying if you've been there, you know what i mean, and if you
haven't, you don't. i guarantee that sockeye is working HARD towards
victory, as is JPN, as is Canada. Beyond that, i wish my work
schedule allowed me to go, even as a spectator. And what I miss the
most, is that there is not a 'club worlds' next year. You know what
would get me fired up to try out for a team to play, beyond the chance
of winning nationals?
The chance to go participate in worlds. Despite what anyone says:
these beach tourneys aren't worlds. And while wucc may be the world
cup of frisbee, if wfdf is only the euro's or the concacaf, i'd still
give an eyetooth to go back.
joe
All jrs teams dont play in quarters. Top 2 get a bye
Ryan Thompson
Well, and bottom two also. It's prequarters or a play-in, really,
since only 4 teams are playing, not 8.
Kirchner
It's pre-semis. Prequarters would be chopping down from 12 teams to 8.
Parinella
Because the schedule wasn't released until very recently and a team
dropped out this week. And UPA members are used to an overly fair, no
unforseen set of ridiculous circumstances overlooked, schedule and
format and tiebreaker.
The method of seeding was announced a long time ago, though, and if
you want to do it objectively, there's not really a better method.
Previous WUGC, adjusted for official WFDF-sanctioned intraregional
play.
Gambler
have missed out on the last one in 2006 because it was held in
November, unlike the usual August timeline. The next club Worlds will
be in 2010. Still on a two year cycle between country and club
worlds.
NW...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
New pools and format posted for the open division. Any comments on the
updates?
seanc
> New pools and format posted for the open division. Any comments on the
> updates?
link? or cut and paste new format/seedings?
sean (unable to find said info on the website with cursory search)
Adam Tarr
Torre
Can USA AUS
JPN SWD GBR
GER FIN SUI
NED IRL ITA
NZL RSA VEN
MEX DOM COL
Adam Tarr
To give a thumbnail sketch of the rest of the format:
- top 4 from each pool are re-seeded into 4 pools of 3.
- top finisher in each pool of 3 gets a bye to quarters; the other 8
teams play 2v3 prequarters.
If the common assumptions about which teams are the real top 4 are
true (and that's a big if), then Australia appears to have the best
draw. If Canada, the USA, Australia, and Japan only lose to each
other, Australia doesn't see any of the others until the semifinals.
Nicklas
But they still have to beat GB and Sweden to get to semis.
They are better than you think.
Worlds always turned out in a way people didnt think.
1998 1st Canada, 2nd Japan, 3rd USA ,Sweden No one
thought Japan.
2000 USA,Sweden,Canada, Germany
2004 Canada,USA,Australia ,Sweden No
one thought Australia.
The format is better now thogh.
But it i so embarrisng that schedule changes 2-3 times. And it is set
like 1 a week before.
You start to focus on some opponents and then suddenly is changed.
I wonder what media in Canada think when Schedule at world
championships changes.
It si world championships not a mix tourney.
Unfortunately Insdia dropped out but why so late?
Then they release a new schedule and it also changes. They shouldnt
have relesed it before they were 100 percent.
I hope the new one dont change again.
Nick
Nathan
He may be referring to the good old days, when club worlds alternated
with worlds worlds.
For example, in 1996 Worlds was in Sweden.
In 1997, Club Worlds was in Vancouver.
In 1998, Worlds was in Blaine.
In 1999, Club Worlds was in Scotland (Best Tournament Ever).
In 2000, Worlds was in Germany.
At that point, they changed to a 4 year schedule...so club worlds only
happens every 4 years. The rotation being something like
Year 1 - Worlds
Year 2 - World Games
Year 3 - Club Worlds
Year 4 - Regional Championships
Nathan
Adam Tarr
http://www.wugc2008.com/standings/div/open
Now it goes:
1) 3 pools of 6, standard snaked seeding
2) 2 power pools of 3 (top 2 from each pool), 2 middle pools of 3 (3
and 4 from each pool) bottom pool of 6
3) 1's and 2's from power pools get byes to quarters, 3's from power
pools play prequarters against the teams from the middle pools.