Worlds on sportscenter?
Torre
to show an ultimate highlight from worlds turn on ESPN" sent
@ 1:57pm EST.
I'm @ work. was it any good?
--
What:17th Annual Shawn Adams Memorial Spirit of the Game
Ultimate Tournament
When:Sept 4-5,2010
Where:Chattanooga, TN
Who:16Open&Coed&Women's teams.
How much:$250
E-mail: mailto:sam...@gmail.com
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
Reid K
other occasions where they sped through it to get to another Top Play,
they showed it as a solo highlight itself. I had the sound off for
most of it because I wasn't playing attention to the TV so I don't
know what they said.
It's morning Sportscenter though, so I'd say there is a good chance
they show it again at the end of this episode that is currently on if
you missed it the first time.
T
At 2:40, the phrase "The Ultimate Catch" is on their sidebar that
indicates what's coming up.
T
Rob Brazile
of the footage which meant that you couldn't quite see him
leave the ground. They also didn't say Seattle or Sockeye,
despite an obvious chance to hype American athletes, but
still pretty cool.
Torre
529
--
What:17th Annual Shawn Adams Memorial Spirit of the Game
Ultimate Tournament
When:Sept 4-5,2010
Where:Chattanooga, TN
Who:16Open&Coed&Women's teams.
How much:$250
daze
justice. Did someone send in the footage, I thought Rob
filmed it in HD. Should USA Ultimate should regulate this?
Torre
> Sweet it was on but the quality was so bad it didn't do
> it justice. Did someone send in the footage, I thought
> Rob filmed it in HD. Should USA Ultimate should regulate
> this?
the ultivillage website is posted on the footage. top
leftish in a black box, barely readable: ultivillage.com
--
What:17th Annual Shawn Adams Memorial Spirit of the Game
Ultimate Tournament
When:Sept 4-5,2010
Where:Chattanooga, TN
Who:16Open&Coed&Women's teams.
How much:$250
E-mail: mailto:sam...@gmail.com
heltzooor
*Jerseys w/numbers
*lined field.
*great play
*in a stadium... with fans sitting in stands (looks packed) in the
shot of the play (beginning of the clip with the empty stands is
quickly forgotten).
The only difference between the Zip catch and this one is that last
bullet... In the Zip clip you had fans lining the fields and did not
look like a sporting event that Sportscenter is familiar with... this
one in contrast did. Something to think about for showcase events.
Rob
this clip (which I gave them) but I also offered to send
them a higher resolution version which they never asked
for.
Not sure why USUA would regulate the use of footage shot at
a non USUA event. Besides, this is the type of exposure
we've been waiting for. If I'd known ESPN was gonna pick it
up I would've put a higher resolution version up. Live an
learn.
Rob
Jerrod
The video just got a lot of love on SportsNation. 70% of the people
polled were impressed by the catch. Pretty significant amount.
I've been watching for 30 minutes and they've already shown it in two
separate segments. Once under the headline of "Greatest Catch Ever?"
ulticritic
probably dosent help that he's white and bald too. i mean, wouldnt
most people just think that any ole brothah would have simply run it
down.....not that it still wasnt a pretty amazing catch.
ulticritic
a reff standing there signaling a goal wouldnt have hurt either
Reggie Fanelli
> most people just think that any ole brothah would have simply run it
> down
---wouldn't have taken a 'brothah'.........
Reggie Fanelli
---that play could have required the "up" signal, followed by the two
handed down point to show "catch in the endzone", some good eyecontact
with a partner, followed by the "score" two hands straight up, palms
facing one another, fingers together.....
sweet catch.
Rob
and pose for the cameras. I think it worked just fine the
way it was.
ulticritic
well, they are much faster than your average white weekend warrior
athlete.........much MUCH faster
ulticritic
thats too much information......just give us the instant GOAL signal
so we can celebrate with the play. you know how american sports fans
crave instant gratification. and, i mean, making that catch is
absolutely no different from a football player making a sweet
touchdown catch, and those refs dont go thru that whole
process......they just give us the touchdown signal right then and
there......then wave it off if there was a call. just a basic way of
making the call more of a part of the play imo. i know, as a football
fan, i would HATE if they used that process in football.
Noah
> On Jul 27, 3:08 pm, heltzooor <helt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Let's talk about why this clip made it toSportscenter:
>
> > *Jerseys w/numbers
> > *lined field.
> > *great play
> > *in a stadium... with fans sitting in stands (looks packed) in the
> > shot of the play (beginning of the clip with the empty stands is
> > quickly forgotten).
>
> > The only difference between the Zip catch and this one is that last
> > bullet... In the Zip clip you had fans lining the fields and did not
> > one in contrast did. Something to think about for showcase events.
>
> The video just got a lot of love on SportsNation. 70% of the people
> polled were impressed by the catch. Pretty significant amount.
>
> I've been watching for 30 minutes and they've already shown it in two
> separate segments. Once under the headline of "Greatest Catch Ever?"
I'ma just throw this out there . . . I don't think it was *that* great
of a catch. Props to Andrew Fleming it was an awesome catch (heh
although it would have been a much easier catch if the throw had been
better), but I see a half dozen plays equally awesome every
tournament, even tournaments that aren't top-level. We play an
exciting, highlight-filled sport, guys. Quite frankly, I watch
Sportcenter ever night and half of the Top 10 I think "man, I see
something cooler than that during most scrimmages"
So again, why this play? I see two things:
First of all, the camera angle was perfect. Way to go, Rob. A great
shot makes all the difference (I think my favorite example of that is
the Vigi catch from Dream Cup, would have been only a so-so clip but
the perfect angle makes it awesome:
http://www.ultivillage.com/index.php/COTD-2008/Dream-Cup-08-Vigi-Layout-in-past-Chase)
Secondly, as heltzooor brought up, is the presentation. The fields
are lined, the teams look sharp in their uniforms, and, echoing
helzoor, the stadium makes it look like a legit sporting event
So what do we learn from this? Well, ultivillage is going to be out
there every big game, and it's seemed to me that the coverage (high
quality, multiple cameras, good angles) gets better every tournament.
If we organize more games in real venues, I guarantee we're going to
get more fantastic clips like this no problem. Then, all we have to
do is send them out to our friends (fb, twitter, whatever) . . .
there's no need for this to be an isolated event
Noah
>
> > Let's talk about why this clip made it toSportscenter:
>
> > *Jerseys w/numbers
> > *lined field.
> > *great play
> > *in a stadium... with fans sitting in stands (looks packed) in the
> > shot of the play (beginning of the clip with the empty stands is
> > quickly forgotten).
>
> > The only difference between the Zip catch and this one is that last
> > bullet... In the Zip clip you had fans lining the fields and did not
> > one in contrast did. Something to think about for showcase events.
>
> The video just got a lot of love on SportsNation. 70% of the people
> polled were impressed by the catch. Pretty significant amount.
>
> I've been watching for 30 minutes and they've already shown it in two
> separate segments. Once under the headline of "Greatest Catch Ever?"
I'ma just throw this out there . . . I don't think it was *that* great
Noah
>
> > Let's talk about why this clip made it toSportscenter:
>
> > *Jerseys w/numbers
> > *lined field.
> > *great play
> > *in a stadium... with fans sitting in stands (looks packed) in the
> > shot of the play (beginning of the clip with the empty stands is
> > quickly forgotten).
>
> > The only difference between the Zip catch and this one is that last
> > bullet... In the Zip clip you had fans lining the fields and did not
> > one in contrast did. Something to think about for showcase events.
>
> The video just got a lot of love on SportsNation. 70% of the people
> polled were impressed by the catch. Pretty significant amount.
>
> I've been watching for 30 minutes and they've already shown it in two
> separate segments. Once under the headline of "Greatest Catch Ever?"
I'ma just throw this out there . . . I don't think it was *that* great
Rob
finally get one of my clips on ESPN. But, just like there
are probably a dozen hole in one's being made across the
globe everyday, when it happens on film, at a big tourney,
while in the hunt, it's a big deal. The situation does
matter.
This was an exceptional play in, in an exceptional
situation, in an exceptional setting. Period. That's why the
crowd went wild, and that's why it's on ESPN. Props to
Andrew (one of the nicest guys in Ultimate) who has paid his
dues on the D line and now gets to use his speed for fun
things like this.
I will be submitting a proper highlight reel to ESPN
(featuring the best of my 5+ years of filming) just in case
they feel that Ultimate deserves another 15 minutes.
Gill
> On Jul 27, 1:25 pm, Jerrod <jwolf...@gmail.com[/email]>
> wrote:
> > On Jul 27, 3:08 pm, heltzooor
>
> I'ma just throw this out there . . . I don't think it
> was *that* great
> of a catch. Props to Andrew Fleming it was an awesome
> catch (heh
> although it would have been a much easier catch if the
> throw had been
> better), but I see a half dozen plays equally awesome
> every
> tournament, even tournaments that aren't top-level. We
> play an
> exciting, highlight-filled sport, guys. Quite frankly,
> I watch
> Sportcenter ever night and half of the Top 10 I think
> "man, I see
> something cooler than that during most scrimmages"
So it wasn't "that" great of a catch, but it was awesome?
I think this catch was far from an ordinary lay out. I'll
bet 98% of you if in the same situation would lay out too
late and the disc would hit the ground before your hand even
has a chance at grabbing it. This guy had to lay out early
and caught the disc on his way down. Then he grabbed it
within 6" of the ground. Best catch ever? I dunno, but it's
up there. He had to cover a lot of ground on a sub par throw
that was low and fast. It was a great catch
heltzooor
> Noah, thanks for the props. It definitely feels good to
> finally get one of my clips on ESPN. But, just like there
> are probably a dozen hole in one's being made across the
> globe everyday, when it happens on film, at a big tourney,
> while in the hunt, it's a big deal. The situation does
> matter.
>
that one is just nuts and the best IMHO.
tony leonardo
by choice and that was definitely one of the best layouts
i've seen (zip's was nice too, and there are plenty of
others... usually ones involving laying out for hammers)
the circumstances helped and the stadium seating meant we
had a cool up-high angle. the tape proves that Rob's ground
level was equally wicked.
Noah
Haha no doubt--if I made that identical cut and got that identical
throw 100 times, I'd miss it every single time. No question
All I'm saying is that, while the play was awesome, it's not
uncommon. It was just a few months ago that Rob started reposting
some old CotD highlights, and every single one of them was
outstanding. I believe that if we had every major tournament take
place in a legitimate sports venue with top-quality videotaping, we'd
have a SC-worthy clip every few weeks (also, as Rob pointed out, it
did help that they got to say "this clip is from the World
Championships" . . . but they didn't even know that it was a very
important point in the quarters, or any of the narrative behind
Sockeye's attempt to regain their past glory, etc. etc.--in many ways,
the clip does speak for itself)
3Jane.
> Or... he could just stand up, know he was in, spike the disc
> and pose for the cameras. I think it worked just fine the
> way it was.
Or not spike the disc and not pose for the cameras, but it did work
ulticritic
> On Jul 27, 5:05 pm, Rob <r...@ultivillage.com> wrote:.
>
> > Or... he could just stand up, know he was in, spike the disc
> > and pose for the cameras. I think it worked just fine the
> > way it was.
>
> Or not spike the disc and not pose for the cameras, but it did work
> just fine the way it was.
yea, i'm sure most espn sports fans just assumed that there was a ref
somewhere out of the camera shot that was instantly signaling that
goal......just likle its done in football. thing is, as good as a
catch as it was it could have just as easily been a trap in which
there could have been a major ult-debate......without the proper 3rd
party officiation present that is. wonder what sports nation would
have thought about that catch(and the sport) if it were a little less
"conclusive" and there were no officials there to make an impartial
judgement.
Rob
pissed off an entire crowd and changed the outcome of the
game. Just sayin...
Rob
ulticritic
> Or Toad, a ref could have incorrectly called it down, and
> pissed off an entire crowd and changed the outcome of the
> game.
yet their rage would turn to praise once they saw the replay and that
the disc was indeed dropped.
----------------------------------------------------
Just sayin...
even if it was called wrongly by the ref it would pale in comparison
to the kind of ult-debat that can often erupt at that stage of the
game in observerless sotg comp. need i remind you of the infamous
alex call when boston won worlds year back.
so ya die with waht ya live with.........just sayin
refs blowing calls at crucial parts of games in sports is unfortunate
but tollerable and accepted.......5 minute discussion/arguments
between opposing player refs ARENT......and its truely sad that you
dont "get" that.
Rob
ESPN, your upset that when it happens it's not under your
terms. This was an extremely important, competitive and
spirited game of ultimate. One of the best I've ever seen. I
know the fans enjoyed it and it made ESPN. Case closed.
I also can't understand you obsession with Mike G. You know
he advocates for observers right, not refs? It's right there
in the name of his organization.
Either way, you have enough threads on the go, please leave
this one alone.
california_encounter
thejackrabbit
comment on the viedo requesting more coverage for the sport.
ulticritic
> Interesting that after years of wanting to get Ultimate on
> ESPN, your upset that when it happens it's not under your
> terms.
i'm not upset.......just trying to bring you guys back down to earth
as to the reality of ultimate stratus and perception. i mean, look at
what hector said about why the clip even aired. so it seem there are
just a few elements missing that could get ultimate out of the random
sc clip stage. one would be refs.....the other, a little more color
(and thus speed). so why not focus on adding those missing elements
rather than basking in the fluff that ultimate currently is.
just dont pat yourself on the back for too long, lest ultimate get
surpased by yet another girls sport.
----------------------------------------------------------
This was an extremely important, competitive and
> spirited game of ultimate
nobody that watches espn regularly give a shit if the game was
spirited. and once you guys get over trying to flourish that aspect
you will be doing the sport a great service.
---------------------------------------------------------------
. One of the best I've ever seen. I
> know the fans enjoyed it and it made ESPN. Case closed.
if thats all there is to this "case" then ultimate will continue to be
the red headed step child of sports
--------------------------------------------------
>
> I also can't understand you obsession with Mike G.
whats not to understand, he's the man. he's taking ultimte to the
promise land single handedly but i can see how all the old
traditionalist jews couldnt see what john the babtists obsession with
jesus was.........yet 2000 years later zillions of christians do.
i mean, who else is doing anythig as close to as innovative and
progressive with this sport as mike?
so i got to praise him like i should.
also, according to some sz'z out there anything i support will
automatically fail because i am that much of an obnoxious subversive.
thats according to the likes of blw and 3jane etal
anyways............so if the UOA succeds with me as its biggest
advocate i can confidently say that that all bullshit
-------------------------------------------------
You know
> he advocates for observers right, not refs?
you know that his observers are more ref than observer, right? IVE
SEEN EM IN ACTION, have you? and i try not to get caught up in all
the samantics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's right there
> in the name of his organization.
reguardless of the name......theyre still more ref than
observer.........AND THE KICKER IS, that according to usau policy,
usau percieves them as refs too. you know, because they actively make
calls that are subjective......isnt that how usau distinguishes refs
from observers?
---------------------------------------------------
>
> Either way, you have enough threads on the go, please leave
> this one alone.
thats like telling me to piss all over it. havent you people figured
out how i operate here. and saying please dont help a bit.
Finks
leave him alone.
Lance Marput
todd toad leber's rsd tantrums.
Rob, congrats again on the ESPN nod and clip. The guys in the mail
room mentioned it to me a few minutes ago and essentially made me
watch it with them 3 or 4 times ( Lifelong basketball and baseball
fans.).
The one guy's son (hs age) has played baseball all his life but this
summer seems to be enjoying throwing the disc in the evenings with his
Pops instead of lobbing the archaic Rawlings product back and forth.
Go figure.
Later,
Peter Mc
MDSC
Univ. of Mo.
23 Ellis Library
Columbia, Mo.
65201
"Archiving disc sports since 1997."
Doc
people have made the comment, "I could of made that catch."
Well, my question is, Could you of made the team?
Nope. You're not on Sockeye and you're probably not on a
team that went to worlds either.
How can you say you could of made a catch if you couldn't
even make the team?
My second favorite part about this clip is that it's giving
Ultimate players a reason to get on an Ultimate fourm to
discuss why the sport is now somehow more legitament because
ESPN is covering it. Talk about beating a dead horse.
Oh and Toad, I think the words you were looking for is a
"black guy". I hope that black people don't sit around
calling us "dudes" because they are afraid that calling us
"white guys" is offensive. Racism is dead.
- Doc
Torre
it's still on the homepage...and what would be almost just
as valuable is directing people to espn.com and telling them
to click on the video themselves...if you've ever listened
to ESPN Radio you know that ESPN monitors which links are
the most active.
--
What:17th Annual Shawn Adams Memorial Spirit of the Game
Ultimate Tournament
When:Sept 4-5,2010
Where:Chattanooga, TN
Who:16Open&Coed&Women's teams.
How much:$250
E-mail: mailto:sam...@gmail.com
T
ESPN's First Take just debated how great of a catch it was. Hilarious
to hear Skip Bayless attempt describing how a frisbee has air
underneath it that keeps it up longer than a baseball or football.
The other commentators were talking about it earning an ESPY.
T
bil
at.....
1
woot woot
Keith
Maybe espn will be encouraged to cover more ultimate now. Add it to
the college season coverage of soccer, lax, field hockey, etc. Or
maybe it will encourage CBS College sports to cover more and in a
timely fashion.
But could somebody get Crazy Frank off the ESPN comments board?
(probably not, but it would be nice...)
Jim Mallon
I had a funny conversation with a buddy who called me right
after the SportsNation coverage last night. We played IMs
together at UCSB way, way back when, but that was the extent
of his Ultimate experience while I went on to play a whole
lot of Club Ulti.
He said as he watched the clip he was thinking, "Wow! I
could never make a catch like that!" I had to laugh because
I was thinking the exact opposite: "Wow! I've made a catch
like that!" [Sure, it was 20 years ago, but still...]
I liked that the guy on SportsCenter said the catch "may
have put Ultimate on the map." Colin Cowhert had a funny
quote when he said: "I always thought the video of man
walking on the moon was the coolest thing ever...until I saw
this."
And I'll bet it's an awesome day to be Andrew Fleming. Yeah,
that probably doesn't suck.
chrisneitzey
> But could somebody get Crazy Frank off the ESPN comments
> board?
> (probably not, but it would be nice...)
You mean his new alter ego, "Billy Berrou"?
ulticritic
>
> Oh and Toad, I think the words you were looking for is a
> "black guy".
nope, brothah was the word i was looking for....and found......of
course if i were a "black guy" i'd probably use an alltogether
different slang term. can you guess which one?
-------------------------
I hope that black people don't sit around
> calling us "dudes" because they are afraid that calling us
> "white guys" is offensive.
pfft, ya really think they sit anund calling us "white guys"? maybe
"white boys" but doubtful "white guys........even though i'd say they
probably use the term "crackahs" most of the time.......and honkies
when they are mad.
-----------------------------------------------
Racism is dead.
then why did you jump on the race train
ulticritic
now lets think about what these same guys would have said if they knew
there was no ref there to call it one way or another and IF that would
have been even less conclusive than it was they may have just argued
about it for an unlimmited amout of time before resorting the the play
ground "do over" rule.
ulticritic
> On Jul 28, 12:07 pm, bil <ultimatephotogra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ESPN Top Ten Today
>
> > at.....
>
> > 1
>
> > woot woot
>
> Maybe espn will be encouraged to cover more ultimate now.
doubtfull. not saying they might not be more encouraged to look into
it but in its current state its just not marketable without refs and
all the other bells and whistels.......and its quite evident that
those are consessions ultimate is unwilling to make
-------------------------------------------
Add it to
> the college season coverage of soccer, lax, field hockey, etc.
uoa comp might have a shot
-------------------------------------
Or
> maybe it will encourage CBS College sports to cover more and in a
> timely fashion.
or.....maybe it will encourage you fools to get ultimates shit
together and make it presentable so that when an opportunity arises
they will be a tightly packaged product that can fit into that
standars sports entertainment model.
and mike g is the only person i know of thats doing that
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> But could somebody get Crazy Frank off the ESPN comments board?
why dont you just get on it and rebutal him
Finks
awesome? If your theory were anywhere close to on target,
don't you think that the biggest tournamnet in the world,
where the stakes are highest, would be the most likely place
for spirit to breakdown and the most necessary occasion for
referees? I just think its funny that for all of your
bitching, this play WASN'T called back. It wasn't argued
over. There was no bullshit travel call. This play is
evidence that, despite the pressures to win and the
temptation to abuse the rules or even downright cheat, the
best players in the world can still say, "Jesus, what an
amazing catch that dude on the other team had! Why would we
even think about taking that away?"
Doc
catch is just sick and then he gets up and spikes it with
passion; not arrogance.
I can't for the day when this sport has top athletes making
plays like this on a regular basis and there is a good fan
following. With this exposure we're one step closer.
I would suggest that people send the link to the video on
ESPN's website to their friends and family who know about
the sport but don't get to see that much of it.
I guarantee the webmasters at ESPN have already contacted
their supervisors about how many hits this video is getting
and we can help it get more. More hits = more Ultimate on
ESPN.
Do work
- Doc
Torre
> I guarantee the webmasters at ESPN have already
> contacted their supervisors about how many hits this video
> is getting and we can help it get more. More hits = more
> Ultimate on ESPN.
>
> Do work
>
> - Doc
agreed.
tweet it. facebook it. give it 5 stars. comment on it asking
for similar clips. email it to your team.
--
What:17th Annual Shawn Adams Memorial Spirit of the Game
Ultimate Tournament
When:Sept 4-5,2010
Where:Chattanooga, TN
Who:16Open&Coed&Women's teams.
How much:$250
E-mail: mailto:sam...@gmail.com
Lance Marput
wise for ultimate than Chelsea Clinton's gluten-free wedding cake will
be for gluttons in the usa.
just saying...
Lance Marput
pizzapinochle
to see Skip talk about it.
ulticritic
> Hmmmm...why are refs necessary for a play like that to be
> awesome?
well they arent for 5 second "plays".....but it takes more than a play
or two for a sport to break thru......and a sustained level of
interest. so sure that was a great play but it just as easily could
have turned into a 5 minute ult-debate with out refs. so, in essense,
refs make the game better.......kinda like that compamy that dosent
make the stuff you buy, the just make the stuff you buy better.
----------------------------------------------------
If your theory were anywhere close to on target,
well if your therory about my theory was anywhere close to on target
then all other sports would be refless, like ultimate.......but they
arent! care to speculate why. and why is it that every time you hear
about observers in ultimate its always pertaining to them being there
for showcase games in which spectators are present?
-------------------------------------------------------------
> don't you think that the biggest tournamnet in the world,
> where the stakes are highest, would be the most likely place
> for spirit to breakdown and the most necessary occasion for
> referees?
ya mean likw when a huge ult-debate broke out on a sketchy boston dog
call by alex back in the day. and waht do you think normal sports fan
would have thought about that "catch" had they of known that if it
were slightly less conclusive there would have been no official their
to rule on it.
---------------------------------------------------------
I just think its funny that for all of your
> bitching, this play WASN'T called back.
well, if i were a ref, i would have called it a goal........dont know
where you get that i'm bitching from.......just sayin this clip is
great and all but if ya dont have an appropriately series of
competition to showcase such athletisism(WHICH YOU DONT) you are
missing the boat completely(WHICH YOU ARE)
--------------------------------------------
It wasn't argued
> over. There was no bullshit travel call.
but there easily could have been, right? i mean, it IS known to
happen from time to time
--------------------------------------------------
This play is
> evidence that, despite the pressures to win and the
> temptation to abuse the rules or even downright cheat, the
> best players in the world can still say, "Jesus, what an
> amazing catch that dude on the other team had! Why would we
> even think about taking that away?"
so what is the 5 minute + ULT-debate at worlds with boston and sweeden
years back evidence of........and what is steve dugans cheating call
at chrunch time in a worlds semis evidence of.......and what was that
no catch "catch" by JOJAH at nationals against middlebury at game
point evidence of.
do yourself a favor and take your head outa your ass
ulticritic
> Any online copy of the First Take segment?? I totally want
> to see Skip talk about it.
what would be really interesting would be to hear those guys comment
on ultimates reflesness aspect. any ideas of what there take might be
on all that???? or is that a subject youde rather nor broach?
Finks
anti-ultimate crusade, but you don't right?
For every bad call made by a player, I'm sure there would be
just as many by a ref. But I am happy that you're starting
to understand the concept of evidence-based
arguements...see, I used something to back my point up, and
you used somethings to back your's up. That's a lot better,
dude. Now if we could do something about your terrible
bigotry and even worse grammar...
ulticritic
> And you COULD easily just give up your anti-spirit,
> anti-ultimate crusade, but you don't right?
right
------------------------------
> For every bad call made by a player, I'm sure there would be
> just as many by a ref.
great, so since its the same difference lets switch to refs. and we
cant just discount the fact that every other sport uses them (in their
official comp that is)
-----------------------------------------------------
But I am happy that you're starting
> to understand the concept of evidence-based
> arguements.
i've always understood them. "other sports" has always been my
evidence of the obvious merrits of refs.
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..see, I used something to back my point up, and
> you used somethings to back your's up.
what did use use to back up your point about the merrits of sports
excluding the referee facilitation (in official comp) again? i musta
missed that.
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That's a lot better,
> dude. Now if we could do something about your terrible
> bigotry and even worse grammar...
my grammar.......thats beyond help........but how am i a bigot when i
LIKE their race........unless you are talking about my bigotry towards
white people.