Callahan winner?
hapyschizo
announced.
Hoping it is Stephen Presley, as i believe he deserves it the most for
not only being the most all around and underrated player in ultimate.
And being the primary reason Texas did as well as they did (up to
nationals, though they lost their three placement games, all by no
more than 3 points).
Note: Gibson is pretty fucking dominant though, and he is also on the
best team in the country
Which leads to another topic: should the success of a team as a whole
be a factor in winning the Callahan? If one player is truly one of, if
not the, most spectacular in the game, but the team is unable to
advance, should that negate the chances of that player to win the
Callahan?
Reid K
4. Sherwood
3. Gibson
2. Jolian
1. Kershner
Courtney Kiesow won it on the women's side, barely beating Kira Frew.
Surge was 3rd, Taz was 4th, Wake Forest girl was 5th.
hapyschizo
won the 2008 callahan.
A well deserved win for a player that truly helped Arizona make it to
the elite of the college division.
Also does go to show that you do now have to be on a nationals winning
team to win the award, which says even more about kershner.
Congrats to him and arizona for doing well at nattys
dub dub
Seuss
Russell
joke.
Theodore Hex
> The Callahan award is now officially a popularity contest. What a
> joke.
Yes, many of us thought Jolian should win. But at least it didn't go
to some dick who got a TMF in his first game at Nationals. Instead it
went to the dude who threw a 40-yard hammer on dgp in pre-quarters.
Justin #5
> The Callahan award is now officially a popularity contest. What a
> joke.
Agreed. Gisbon deserved the award.
hapyschizo
Who got the TMF and why
(clarify for those who did not get to go)
mtwi...@gmail.com
Congrats to Kershner, giving hope to all who aren't on the best team,
but...
Gibson and Dahl are both scarier.
schmidtacular
> joke.
Isn't that what the essence of democracy is? The popular vote...
Unless you suggest we vote for representatives to make the Callahan
selection for us based upon how they perceive our interests. Better
yet, let's just allow the UPA to pick without consulting anyone...
daze
for Lop.
Arizona, never in National contention, has become a big time contender
this year. They qualified for their first nationals, and made it all
the way to quarters (on Lop's 40 yard double game point hammer against
Darthmouth). The callahan winner is not the best player in college,
or at least that is not how I see it. Or it would obviously be
Jolian. Lop embodies Ultimate's ideals while still being one of the
top 10 players in the game at the collegiate level. Never have I met
a person so dominating yet so poised. He is the heart and soul of
Sunburn and it true, it could have gone to a better player (Jolian and
Gibson), but not to a more deserving candidate. Congrats Lop and
Sunburn on a great season.
xha...@gmail.com
This is exactly why Kershner deserves it. Nothing against Kurt and
Jolian, who obviously have the respect of the country for their
playing abilities, but Lop is the embodiment of what Ultimate is and a
true ambassador of the game. He gives everything he has into every
point, every game, every tournament, and Arizona's success is evidence
of that. Evidence of Kurt's spirit is well documented, and it is the
usual absence of that kind of attitude that attracts more people to
the game. If that's what it takes for Kurt to be the player he is,
than so be it, but I am proud to have the Player of the Year (as it
were) be somebody that I has the ability to bring more people and
great spirit into the game than otherwise (less people, with worse
spirit).
Powderkeg
While I do agree Arizona has had a phenomenal season and that kershner
played a huge role in that with some sweet highlights to show for
it... this award has gotta go to the best player, seriously I
understand the whole spirit thing and all that but come on.
Gibson or Jolian should've won this.
Same on the womens side. Kira was robbed. period. no question. I'm
sure there were other candidates with impressive credentials but no
one dominates the womens game like kira does.
michae...@gmail.com
Look, the guy has PLAY ULTIMATE tattooed on his calf. What more do
you people want???
joad...@ec.rr.com
> On May 17, 10:46 pm, daze
> but Lop is the embodiment of what Ultimate is
which is what?
joad...@ec.rr.com
>
> Look, the guy has PLAY ULTIMATE tattooed on his calf. What more do
> you people want
for him to be the best player too
Theodore Hex
>
> > Yes, many of us thought Jolian should win. But at least it didn't go
> > went to the dude who threw a 40-yard hammer on dgp in pre-quarters.
>
> (clarify for those who did not get to go)
Gibson. Warned after accompanying a spike with saying "Suck it, 17,"
did something similar the next point, boom, TMF.
daze
"Ultimate relies upon a spirit of sportsmanship that places the
responsibility for fair play on the player. Highly competitive play is
encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among
competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, or the basic joy of
play. Protection of these vital elements serves to eliminate
unsportsmanlike conduct from the Ultimate field. Such actions as
taunting opposing players, dangerous aggression, belligerent
intimidation, intentional infractions, or other 'win-at-all-costs'
behavior are contrary to the Spirit of the Game and must be avoided by
all players."
-TMF warnings don't sound like they embody Ultimate ideals = Kurt out
of contention; he is the best player in college though
- Kobe Bryant finally won the MVP even though he has been argubably
the best player in the NBA for the last couple of years. He won in
this year with his attitude towards his teammates and his unselfish
play. I think Kurt is the best player in college, but does not have
the total package in terms of spirit.
- I personally thought Jolian was going to get it, but with Arizona's
rise to stardom, getting to quaters, albeit only to get crushed by
Florida, was inspiring. It was end of a cindarella story, to a
cindarella season. Lop dominated the competition (even getting the
layout score over Gibson against Florida at DGP at Vegas) and always
showed his class and character after, before, and during the game.
His team has said he is the heart and soul, it is great he was
recognized. Let him have his moment.
- On another note I got Florida by 3 against Wisconsin, any takers?
nichol...@gmail.com
Anything unusual happen that prompted him to say that? Jake (#17) is
one of the most spirited ultimate players I've ever met, so I'm a bit
shocked that anyone would be an ass to him
mbwh...@gmail.com
I was the observer that gave the TMF in that game. Gibson and Jake
got into a little bit during the point. I believe Jake said something
and Gibson responded. I was too far away to hear this exchange during
the point. Gibson scored the goal and spiked/tacoed the disc while
yelling "Suck it, 17" (17 was not near the spike). I warned Kurt to
watch the language and just play the game / talk to his own team. He
said that Jake had said something to him during the point, to which I
responded, "that's why I'm only giving you a warning, say it again and
it'll be a TMF". A point or two later Jake dropped a tough catch for
a potential goal in the front corner of the end zone. On the way to
pick up the disc, Gibson yelled "Suck it, 17" again, so I gave him the
TMF.
The only other TMF I gave this weekend was to Wisconsin for repeatedly
double teaming in their zone. I think that one is more difficult as
the threshold between something being a violation and a pattern of
violations worthy of a TMF is not clear. Wisconsin zoned for a few
points in a row. I believe they got called for double team twice in
the first point where I was behind the disc. In the two points going
the other direction, they may have been called for double team but I
couldn't hear it and play never stopped (at no point did Pitt call
violation for a second double team). The second zone point where I
was trailing, they were called for three double teams (again play
never stopped). After the point, I gave them the TMF for repeated
double teams.
I think another interesting case is travel calls. If a team calls 8
travel calls in a half and 4 are upheld and 4 are overturned, should
that be a TMF because it indicates a team is "guessing" on travel
calls to stop play or is being right 50% of the time enough.
Whit
joad...@ec.rr.com
>
> I think another interesting case is travel calls. If a team calls 8
> travel calls in a half and 4 are upheld and 4 are overturned, should
> that be a TMF because it indicates a team is "guessing" on travel
> calls to stop play or is being right 50% of the time enough.
how about just makin it a turn over whenever its upheld......or better
yet make it an active call.........and makin it a turn when called.
asdf
> travel calls in a half and 4 are upheld and 4 are overturned, should
> that be a TMF because it indicates a team is "guessing" on travel
> calls to stop play or is being right 50% of the time enough.
>
> Whit
It should be observer discretion, but IMO travel calls are one of the
worst things about unobserved ultimate, with "revenge" calls common
after a team disagrees with a travel, or calls being made as outright
cheating to bring back goals. If the thrower pivots in an odd way such
that their foot might seem to move, I can see an incorrect travel call
being made without malicious intent, but in general, any poor travel
call should receive a warning and any pattern of poor calls should
receive punishment
Jed
> - Kobe Bryant finally won the MVP even though he has been argubably
> the best player in the NBA for the last couple of years. He won in
> this year with his attitude towards his teammates and his unselfish
> play. I think Kurt is the best player in college, but does not have
> the total package in terms of spirit.
There's a big difference between a selfish style of play that hurts
your team's performance (Kobe), and a player like Kurt who, while
perhaps not making a lot of friends on opposing teams, gets it done
for and with his team, and has their respect both as a player and a
leader.
I think what happened is that Kurt and Jolian split the votes of those
voting for the best player, allowing the spirit nuts to win the day.
And I should know, having never played college ulti, nor seen any of
these players play the game.
joe
Whoa...didn't the Lakers have the best record in the western
conference...and they are the only western conference team to win a
game on the road this round. He didn't even take a shot in the 4th
quarter the other night. Don't knock the MVP .
But since Kurt didn't win, who says "suck it"? I mean do we really
want to honor that type of a guy? If he was a truly great player he
would let his game do the talking, he's good enough to do so. But
while he may have the respect of his team, it seems that few others
have respect for him (and those are the ones voting for this award)
Kirby
What is TMF?
Jed
I was referring to Kobe's old ways - and why he wasn't considered the
MVP before. He's turned it around now, and become much more valuable
to his team.
As for honoring Kurt - I can't comment on his character; never met
him, or played with or against him. (I'll admit that sequence doesn't
sound good though). Seems like he's been the clear standout, on both
sides of the disc, on the most dominant college team in the nation so
far this year. Yes, I believe that deserves some recognition.
clar...@gmail.com
Just a Clarification on what the Callahan Award is
Stolen from the Callahan site:
The Callahan Award has been established to recognize the most valuable
players in college ultimate. Each year the Callahan trophy is
presented to the man and woman who combine superior athleticism with
outstanding sportsmanship, leadership and dedication to the sport of
ultimate.
In the eyes of his or her peers, the Callahan winner is the
personification of the ideal ultimate player.
So whatever your take on it is it sounds to me like sportsmanship and
leadership are a factor
Also the award is voted on by peers... so yes it is a popularity
contest- but thats kinda the point isn't it
Glenn (Grinnell #16)
Jed
I would also like to add, congrats to Joe Kershner. It sounds like
he's a great athlete, competitor, leader, and person, and it's not my
intent to take away from his honor.
My intent was to distinguish between a player who, while individually
greatly talented and skilled can hurt his team with a selfish attitude
and style of play (old Kobe); and a player who may rub opponents the
wrong way, but nonetheless is a leader and a valuable competitor in
the game (Isaiah Thomas & Larry Bird come to mind; but even Jordan was
known to talk a lot of trash).
An MVP should be judged on results, not popularity. Maybe that means
the Callahan isn't a true MVP award.
colinm...@gmail.com
> On May 18, 11:54 am, mbwhi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think another interesting case is travel calls. If a team calls 8
> > travel calls in a half and 4 are upheld and 4 are overturned, should
> > that be a TMF because it indicates a team is "guessing" on travel
> > calls to stop play or is being right 50% of the time enough.
>
> how about just makin it a turn over whenever its upheld
and how would that prevent bad travel calls?
colinm...@gmail.com
> I think another interesting case is travel calls. If a team calls 8
> travel calls in a half and 4 are upheld and 4 are overturned, should
> that be a TMF because it indicates a team is "guessing" on travel
> calls to stop play or is being right 50% of the time enough.
I think if they call 6 and 4 are upheld and 2 are overturned, the 2nd
should warrant a TMF. Sounds like a pattern to me. The other 4
aren't terribly relevant, in my mind. Either get it right or don't
call it. If you want to walk the line, then face the consequences.
No overturned travel calls in the games I observed, that I can recall.
colinm...@gmail.com
> Just want someone at nationals to post the winner as soon as it
> announced.
> Hoping it is Stephen Presley, as i believe he deserves it the most for
> not only being the most all around and underrated player in ultimate.
> And being the primary reason Texas did as well as they did (up to
> nationals, though they lost their three placement games, all by no
> more than 3 points).
> Note: Gibson is pretty fucking dominant though, and he is also on the
> best team in the country
> Which leads to another topic: should the success of a team as a whole
> be a factor in winning the Callahan? If one player is truly one of, if
> not the, most spectacular in the game, but the team is unable to
> advance, should that negate the chances of that player to win the
> Callahan?
Wisconsin is the best team in the country. It's a shame that Reb and
Muffin split votes, as I think either could have been in the running
and both were deserving candidates. However, it's no shame at all
that Kershner won. As I see it, there were a handful of deserving
candidates and the players chose the one that they most wanted to
honor with the award.
Any word on how many TMFs Arizona got this weekend? Or whether they
played fair? To not only personally exhibit outstanding
sportsmanship, but also to lead in a way that promotes it throughout
your team is certainly worth recognition. My impression is that this
is what Kershner has done, on top of having excellent skills,
athleticism and a cinderalla story.
To say that Kershner isn't deserving is absurd. He ranks highly in
every criteria for the award. Simply calling the Callahan Award the
"Most Talented Player Award" doesn't make it so. Saying you want the
latter award to exist is one thing, but you shouldn't conceal that
statement in some unjustified knock at Kershner's achievement.
joad...@ec.rr.com
<colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 18, 12:59 pm, joadnt...@ec.rr.com wrote.:
yor right it wouldnt. Nothing does. Other than handing that call
over to the officials. Not that there still wouldnt be bad
calls.......just that they wouldnt be tit for tat or partially
motivated.
Bob Koca
Four is twice as much as two so why not also penalize the team
that keeps traveling? That also shows a pattern of rules breaking.
Bob Koca
colinm...@gmail.com
Do you really want an answer to that?
rob.c....@gmail.com
>
> My intent was to distinguish between a player who, while individually
> greatly talented and skilled can hurt his team with a selfish attitude
> and style of play (old Kobe); and a player who may rub opponents the
> wrong way, but nonetheless is a leader and a valuable competitor in
> the game (Isaiah Thomas & Larry Bird come to mind; but even Jordan was
> known to talk a lot of trash).
>
Isaiah, Bird and Jordan never played a game with self officiation.
Talking "a lot of trash" is a lot different when the person talking is
making bad calls.
> An MVP should be judged on results, not popularity. Maybe that means
> the Callahan isn't a true MVP award.
What MVP isn't dependent on popularity? NBA? NFL? MLB? Coaches and
sports-writers (and in some cases the fans) are the voters for other
leagues. They are a group of people who get together and vote, as a
population. There is no unbiased all-knowing ultimate entity who can
bestow the most deserving player with the award. Does that make it not
a TRUE MVP award? You say it's about results, right? So now do we have
to give it to the best player on the winning team in the finals? Or
how about the one with the best stat-sheet? Better yet, just make it
the one with the most goals. Results, right?
But I think this argument for Gibson isn't an argument about merits or
results, it's about a guy you like not getting the award. And thats
why more than just one person votes, enough to make the winner
represent the entire population of votes - a player of popular
support, if you will. You might even call it a contest of mutual
popularity. But it's still those people's assessment of the Most
Valuable Player.