Stonewalled - Medicine Men over Flood

[RichFranck]

Flood had a few players acting arrogant and rude during our quarterfinals matchup ... so I was happy to watch Medicine Men beat Flood 13-10 in the finals of the Richmond Open tournament (July 20-21).

I enjoyed playing with a brand new team (Pilot) from Winston-Salem/Greensboro, NC.

Observation: This was my first tournament in many years. The level of play of all the teams has increased significantly over the past 10 years. I did not see any "weak" teams, that would normally be present at a less than top-level tournament.

[thefan]

lots of folks in the Carolina/VA are reading this and
wondering . . . "What in the hell do Floodwall players have
to be arrogant about?"

those guys are a perennial doormat.
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com

[Knappy]

is this "the" Rich Franck?

if so, we were just talking about you & the infamous Mexican
waterpark yesterday.

[RichFranck]

One Floodwall defender went up and batted a floaty disc, then fell and rolled. While rolling on the ground he took out the legs of my nephew (playing his first tournament) who was about to catch the disc at head level as it floated down. The Floodwall defender immediately contested the foul call.

After the game, the Floodwall player offered no reason for the contested call. I can only assume he feels arrogant because he has learned how to foul a brand new player and then contest the foul call.

It wasn't the entire team, just some of the players. And I must admit that Floodwall has improved significantly over the years.

[RichFranck]

On Monday, July 22, 2013 4:15:02 PM UTC-4, Knappy wrote:
> is this "the" Rich Franck?
>
>
>
> if so, we were just talking about you & the infamous Mexican
>
> waterpark yesterday.

Yes ... Pie de la Cuesta!

[RichFranck]

When in Mexico, never eat hamburgers ... it has happened to me TWICE!

[thefan]

THE Rich Franck wrote:

"And I must admit that Floodwall has improved significantly
over the years. "

they have quite a bit more improving to do before any of
them get "arrogant."

[brian_gane]

For those of you that weren't there.....

As Boneyard was on their way to winning the FCS this year,
we played Floodwall in the quarters. They were consistently
bodying up, tripping, and generally being lame. They also
accused us of being soft and afraid of competitive ultimate.
At any rate we ended up kicking the shit out of them. I
would agree that they have improved somewhat (mostly
athletically as opposed to ultimate skill set). However they
are still hella lame and have no reason to arrogant
whatsoever.
BG

[Mozaic]

RichFranck wrote on Mon, 22 July 2013 12:34

Stonewalled was interesting. 5 games on day 1. Game 5 was
killer if you take a short roster.

[thefan]

Let's say your masters team and you take a short roster. And
one guy breaks his leg and another guy takes him to the
hospital. 2 points into the first game.

[RichFranck]

> Stonewalled was interesting. 5 games on day 1. Game 5 was
> killer if you take a short roster.

Pilot started with 10 players, plus I talked my nephew into playing (has never played before). In pool C we only had 3 games to 17. The 4th game (preQuarters) that started at 8pm came as an unwelcome surprise. Winning that last game put Pilot into Quarters (9am Sunday). Not much time to recover.

At the end injuries brought Pilot down to savage, and we forfeited the game for 5/6th. Not a bad performance for a new team.

[RichFranck]

On Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:35:03 PM UTC-4, thefan wrote:
> Let's say your masters team and you take a short roster. And
> one guy breaks his leg and another guy takes him to the
> hospital. 2 points into the first game.

FCS?
Who broke his leg?

[thefan]

Christian Plachco. one of those breaks you can diagnose
from 40 yards away. it wasn't quite Kevin Ware-esque but it
was stomach churning to stand there and try to talk to him
while they drugged him and braced it.

[anonymous]

Not the same Floodwall of 4-5 years ago, this Floodwall was SWAG from Richmond, plus some of the remains of VA Squires (Richmond/C-ville) last season.

Without seeing the play in question I can only assume their assumption was that after D-ing the disc it was unplayable for your nephew and therefore not a foul.

I won't name the player largely responsible for their defensive style of play but he has been playing overly physical in a poor way for years so its not surprising.

The team does have some arrogant players, most of them college age who think they are amazing because they were carried to college nationals by some elite seniors previously or for no reason at all, but they have many very spirited players who are great to play with.

The odd schedule was largely due to trying to complete in time for Richmond Summer League the next day without conflict, also some weather concerns, and the odd number of teams, both 15 and then the 14 when one dropped are somewhat odd numbers to work with.

[RichFranck]

On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:46:49 PM UTC-4, anonymous wrote:
> this Floodwall was SWAG from Richmond, plus some of the remains of VA Squires > (Richmond/C-ville) last season.

After all I have done for C'ville ultimate, I hope none of the snerts were from C'ville.

> Without seeing the play in question I can only assume their assumption
> was that after D-ing the disc it was unplayable for your nephew and
> therefore not a foul.

"Without seeing the play" being the key phrase ... the player who contested was rolling on the ground. It was obvious (to us who were not rolling on the ground) that the disc was playable.

[RichFranck]

On Monday, July 22, 2013 4:15:02 PM UTC-4, Knappy wrote:

> is this "the" Rich Franck?
> if so, we were just talking about you & the infamous Mexican
> waterpark yesterday.

I am trying to remember someone named "Knappy" from Alcapulco ...

[ager...@gmail.com]

They were consistently
>
> bodying up, tripping, and generally being lame. They also
>
> accused us of being soft and afraid of competitive ultimate.
>
> At any rate we ended up kicking the shit out of them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



----aaaahhhhh...that sounds sooooo very nice.
'kicking the shit out of them'

feel like i've heard that a time or two sitting back in the embroidery room.......

[Knappy]

Rich, Knappy here. I was part of the Philly contingent with
my wife Sandy & friends Doc (aka DR.Pull), Trey Katzenbach &
his wife LT, Kathi Jenkins. Hopefully, not missing anyone.
Sandy & I lost the field finals to Trey's team on universe
point, but we won the beach finals.

we were so young & beautiful back then.

[RichFranck]

Ahhh, the memories! I think I have been to 3 of those tournaments. Every year I think about going back.

I do remember the Philly group that represented so well that year (both on and off the field).

Where's the party?

[Knappy]

on the bus!

[Mozaic]

Who's the DJ?

[leon.lavaishe]

also, there are what, like 4 people on floodwall who had
ever played on it before?
(the biggest current problem seems to be leadership which
appeared to have torn them apart before)

and has anyone on floodwall ever been to any nationals?
carried there by others or not?

most of those guys put their hearts onto the field everytime
they step onto the line

[leon.lavaishe]

"... the player who contested was rolling on the ground. It
was obvious (to us who were not rolling on the ground) that
the disc was playable."

what if the defender had caught the disc?

and what have you done for cville? I've never heard your
name before over here, guess it wasn't that much compared to
the hundreds of other highly skilled modest individuals.

also, are you the guy that tried to join the huddle of the
first team you were about to play to ask a nonsense
question?

BG, i think everyone agrees that there is a disease in most
master's teams that they are insufferable jackasses because
you are just set in your ways and when anyone tries to push
you out of y'alls comfort zone you get mean and bitchy and
wish that these kids would just get off of your damn lawn
already!

[thefan]

leon, you got your panties all in a wad and jumped in here
asking a bunch of dipshit, smart ass questions that reveal
what a nincompoop you are.

if the defender had caught the disc then the receiver
wouldn't have had a play on a floating disc now would he?

if you're from the VA area and you ain't not never heard of
Rich Franck, then son, you best get out and talk to some of
the players in the area and learn your history.

Leon, if the problem with Flood is that they lack leadership
and experience, then they would probably be best served by
no longer acting like a bunch of jackasses. learn something
about ultimate instead of getting on here spouting your
nonsense about something you know absolutely nothing about
because this is two instances early in the season where your
team is being called out for acting a fool on the field in
losses.

by the way, me and BG, we got a long history of stomping all
over Richmond teams. long history. I had to think on it a
bit though because I had forgotten how many times we had
mopped the floor with them chumps.

[Bobus]

Sucks to be on the receiving end of Jimmy putting the smack
down... been there done that!

[Knappy]

http://cvilleultimate.wordpress.com/about/

"Blue Ridge Ultimate (BRU), a Charlottesville-based co-ed
team, helped put Charlottesville on the Ultimate Frisbee
map. In their first year in existence, 2001, they placed 2nd
at nationals. In 2002, they placed 4th at worlds and 7th at
nationals. After BRU's successful first season, they devoted
their efforts to bettering Ultimate in the community. This,
along with a lot of hard work from Rich Franck, sparked
Charlottesville's first winter league in 2001-2002
consisting of 6 teams."

[Tim]

As a current floodwall player it's really disappointing to
see that you all have already passed judgement on us based
off of only a few people having complaints. Not only have
some of you passed judgement on us already, but not a single
one of you have heard our side of the story. When did it
become that the person who posts first is automatically
correct? I've lost some respect for a few of you. I have no
idea why we would be viewed as cocky. I honestly can't think
of any examples of cockiness and I have yet to see an
example given. The play where the floodwall defender was on
the ground and maybe tripped the opposing player was just
another controversial call that we all have been a part of.
It happens. It doesn't make us bad people which you seem to
make us out to be. The claims that we are arrogant are
baffling as well. I would honestly let it go if I saw it but
I don't. No examples were given either yet because one
person said we were arrogant all of a sudden it is true. It
doesn't make sense to me. I am just respectfully giving my
opinion.

-Tim Jackson.

[Tim]

[uncw...@yahoo.com]

Tim,
Although BG did not point out individual plays, I think he pretty much sums it up on why he thought you guys were cocky.

"As Boneyard was on their way to winning the FCS this year,

we played Floodwall in the quarters. They were consistently

bodying up, tripping, and generally being lame. They also
accused us of being soft and afraid of competitive ultimate."

If I was ever accused of being "soft and afraid", I would take some serious issue with it and try and destroy the opposing team which it sounds like they did.

Good luck in the future.
JT

[Tim]

He gave a few very general reasons. 1. We were bodying up. I
HIGHLY doubt we were the first team to EVER play this kind
of defense against them. Since when did bodying up make you
cocky? 2. Tripping. That's either a huge exaggeration or a
straight lie. 3. That we are just generally lame. Um okay? I
guess we're just generally lame?

I find it hardly possible that Floodwall was just super
arrogant and cocky and completely in the wrong in all of
these scenarios. Boneyard was definitely not a group of
angels that day by any means. When people get on the
internet they exaggerate things to prove their point and
anyone who just believes the first thing they read without
hearing both sides of a story is very incompetent.

Good luck to you in the future as well JT

[thefan]

JT, you wanna body up, body up. Boneyard had several
discussions in our huddles about your play that day. we
talked about how you were trying to "body up" and how it had
obviously been a point of discussion on your team to play
physically and body up but from where we were, it just
looked like you weren't athletic enough, or couldn't get in
position to pull it off. I don't remembered being tripped
but I do remember a few of our guys talking about it. I do
specifically remember being grabbed by the arm and attempts
to hook me around the midsection while cutting. I do
remember my teammate having words with your team about it
and the accusation that he was, or we were, afraid to play
competitive ultimate. apparently this is just more of the
history that you need to catch up on because none of the
players on Boneyard, especially that particular player, have
ever been the type to shy away from a little physical play
or competitive ultimate.

no boneyard players got on here and talked about you being
cocky. that was another team who experienced a
controversial play (yes, it happens to all of us) coupled
with cocky behavior and poor handling of the play in
question. I simply asked why your team would be cocky since
you've been a perennial doormat in the region. and BG
concurred that we had a similar negative experience playing
your team. couple that with a post from your teammate
blasting the original poster, apparently without either
reading or understanding the original post, calling out all
masters players as being "diseased", "insufferable
jackasses" and "whiny and bitchy" and you've got yourself a
great way to build a bad rep.

you can spin it any way you want it. use it for fuel. put
it behind you. whatever you like. but if you look through
the history of threads here on RSD, you won't find many
instances at all of posters calling out a team for bad
behavior. chances are, if you're being publicly called out
for "general lameness" and not some crazy egregious act, ie
the GA player spiking a disc on an opponent a couple years
back, then it's something that happens on a fairly regular
basis and you may want to look into it.

[uncw...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, August 9, 2013 9:43:03 AM UTC-4, thefan wrote:
> JT, you wanna body up, body up.

Uhm Jimmy, you know I can deal with physical ultimate. Think you meant that dude Tim, right?

JT

[thefan]

yes, I did. misread on my part.

[Tim]

That other person defending us doesn't even play for us.
that's not my teammate. They used the words "those guys"
excluding themselves meaning they don't play for Floodwall.
But I respect your opinion I just don't think you can pass
judgment on a bunch of guys you don't know based off of one
game against us and having a bad experience with a few of
the players on our team. I know how we are and id admit it
if we were honestly arrogant. I don't believe this to be
true. The complaint about our play tripping someone's
newphew is comical. I remember the play and it was one of
those plays where foul/contest is just gonna happen. The
boneyard game was just an unspirited game and our actions
are being exaggerated and blown out of proportion as if
Boneyard was completely devoid of any wrongdoing and we were
just being dicks for no reason. Yea... But i've said what I
have to say and hopefully in the future you all get a better
experience playing against us.


-Tim Jackson

[thefan]

get your head out of your ass.

i ain't never had a problem playing you guys. i win. you
bitch. makes me enjoy the win even more.

[Tim]

Haha real mature. Classy.

[Tim]

Obviously with that statement you aren't capable of having a
civil and respectful arguement so im done. Your character is
shown.

[thefan]

dude, I can't have a respectful argument with a little know
nothing ding dong who can't keep his facts straight.

you get on here and spout off about Rich Franck being a
nobody and you want to call me disrespectful?

re read the thread, own up to your own confusion about the
TWO games in question, reply without acting like a high
school dipshit in need of conversation skills and maybe we
start the conversation again.

but first, try to think about it from my angle. I play for
a team that has been to two national title games in a row
and is on it's way to worlds in a year. my team hasn't been
called out for acting like arrogant, cocky dipshits ever.
ever. I have mopped the floor with your team since it's
inception on every team I've ever been that's been given the
opportunity.

I have absolutely no vested interest in anything your team
does or anything you or your teammates say. I think about
Floodwall and Richmond ultimate for about 3 or 4 minutes
before a game against your team, for as long as it takes to
register the win, and then I move on to something else.
Richmond ultimate in general probably takes up about a
millionth of a percent of my thinking time and they have to
be staring me in the face to earn that.

put that in your pipe and smoke on it for a bit and decide
whether or not you really want to go down that road.

[Tim]

Please show me which message I said RichFrank was a nobody.
Good luck.

[Tim]

I nevwr said one disrespectful thing about you guys yet you
called me a bitch and are still calling me names. How is
that respectful? Show me one disrespectful thing I said
about you or RichFrank. You won't find it.

[Tim]

This whole time i've been trying to just prove my point
respectfully without name calling or degrading you. Not one
message i've sent has been malicious towarda you yet you
continually keep degrading me and called me a bitch. Why?

[thefan]

upon further review, the comment about Rich Franck was not
from you but from another fellow.

the statement reads: "I win. you bitch." each a sentence
(arguably) with a verb and a subject.

no on is calling you names.


here's the problem: "The complaint about our play tripping

someone's newphew is comical. I remember the play and it was
one of those plays where foul/contest is just gonna
happen."

two separate games in question. 1. more recent, one of
your players goes down on a defensive effort and ends up
'tripping' the receiver as he makes a play on the floating,
d'd disc. the problem arises when the foul is called and
the defender begins making an ass of himself, not the
'tripping.' and apparently there was some jawing going on
throughout the game. 2. separate game in Axton, VA against
Boneyard. I was at this one. there were mentions on the
sideline of tripping by your players. I personally was
grabbed repeatedly by defenders too lazy or too slow to
'body up.' wasn't paying particular attention to the
specific play that brought words from our team but the
fellow your teammate accused of not being able to play
physical ultimate was the wrong one to question on that.
he's the wrong one to try to play physical with if you're
not ready to take it back.

I don't know what happened in the more recent game. wasn't
there. but I was at the Boneyard game. I know what I
experienced and what my teammates said. think about this
for a second. what does a crew of masters players who are
on their way to their second consecutive national final, and
who have never, ever been questioned for being
unsportsmanlike, have to gain from suddenly acting like a
bunch of assholes while their on their way to stomping a
bunch of young nobodies from a nothing club program? you're
going to have a hard time convincing anyone on here that the
Boneyard guys were just acting like a bunch of dicks for the
fun of it in that game.

seriously, go back and look through RSD and try to find more
instances of folks calling out teams for bad behavior.
they're few and far between. but you guys are being called
out for two separate games in one season. hell, before one
season really gets started. you guys might want to sit back
and figure out what you're doing to bring about these
situation instead of "I know how we are and id admit it if

we were honestly arrogant. I don't believe this to be
true."

because honestly, if you are willing to cop to this:

"having a bad experience with a few of the players on our

team." against half a masters team in june and some pickup
team in July then what do you think is going to happen when
some legitimate club teams get a hold of you and "a few of
the players on your team" in august and September? them
dudes are going to run through you like a mack truck on
roadkill and make fun of you the whole damn time.

when resolving a conflict, especially multiple conflicts
involving one party it's best to ask, "what are the common
denominators here?" you want to convince everyone that the
problem is everyone else? or you think there might be a
problem, even if it just a few players, on your team?

[thefan]

I think my reply will come up soon, but for crying out loud,
no one called you a bitch . . . yet. but tread lightly.

[Tim]

Didn't you say "i win. You bitch." I thought you said that
to me? Dude I totally respect your arguement. I just felt
like you were callinge names and a bitch for just stating my
opinion. And tread lightly... For what...

[ager...@gmail.com]

> Haha real mature. Classy.
~~~~~~~~~~~


---the ole "mature" and "classy" card, eh?
lamest of the lame.

[Tim]

You totally said "i win. You bitch." I never once said you
Boneyard guys were being dicks or anything. All I said was
there was blame on both sides. I've yet to see where I could
have disrespected you. That other person's comments were
disrespectful but they arent a teammate and I have no idea
who that was. All ive done is simply stated my opinion and
you called me a bitch and said other degrading things about
me. Multiple times i've said I respected your opinion.

[ultimate7]

I will try to explain this:

He wasn't calling you a bitch. He is trying to say that you (your team) complains (bitches). And Boneyard wins.

Possibly a poor verb choice, but not name calling.

[thefan]

nah, man. I, 'Win'. You, 'Bitch'. you know like
cavemen. or that scene in Tarzan where Jane is trying to
figure to learn his name.

oh, wait, no, possibly a poor verb choice.

wait a fucking minute. poor verb choice? I mean, i'm glad
your reading comprehension is way above that other kids and
you can understand written English. but poor verb choice?
you've never heard "bitch" used as a verb? dude, you should
come hang out with us. we'll give you some learnin' in good
ole southern conversational lingo.

you should have been there when Ryan broke up with Kristen
at the friendship bar. she was whining and 'bitching', to
which Ryan replies "Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.
That's all you ever do." I mean, I felt bad for the girl,
and she definitely wasn't 5 bitches, but he had a point.
he's got this killer Davidson county southern drawl too.
man, what a day.

[uncw...@yahoo.com]

Fan,
I think you just responded to Abbott on that one and not the tim dude.
JT

[thefan]

if Abbott is Ultimate7, then yes, you're right. I was just
having a bit of fun with him. and thanking him, in my own
way, for trying (probably unsuccessfully) to lead Tim
through a crash course in reading comprehension.

[pacemaker]

I hereby assign SENTENCE DIAGRAM homework to all of the
people who thought they were called a bitch. They must also
learn the difference between a period, a comma and a
semicolon. Kids these days!

I win, you bitch. Note the use of a comma. That was not
done. That would have been uncalled for (back when it was
written).

I win. You bitch. There are two sentences. There are two
subjects and two verbs.

I win; you bitch. This combines two very related but
independent clauses. This would have been my preferred post
if I were thefan, but the semicolon might be misinterpreted
as a comma and the same concerns would be voiced.

pacemaker, definitely not a grammarian

[ager...@gmail.com]

> I 'Win'. You 'Bitch'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---there's something here about......punctuation.
don't those periods end sentence?

if there were a comma in there.....'you bitch' might mean something else...
but there's a period.

i win. seems like an easy one to get.
period.....
new sentence....
You bitch.

noun...subject....YOU.
verb...bitch.

there's a reading problem around here in this thread...

[Bobus]

"You bitch" is ambiguous since bitch can be a noun or a
verb.

Put another way, if Jimmy had said "you idiot", it would be
grammatically acceptable (though perhaps technically
incorrect) and unequivocal.

Jackson's confusion is understandable. I mistook Jimmy's
meaning initially, but understood it when I read it a second
time. In part because, although I don't know him from Adam,
I've read enough of his posts to know that's not his style.
Context is everything.

[thefan]

Bobus, please read the grammatical breakdown offered by some
of the above posters.

and you are correct that that is not my style. I do
sometimes use the insult "bitch" though usually verbally and
I typically like to tag the adjective "little" on the
front.

you're far more likely to hear me call someone a "little
bitch" than to see me write it down. though, in all truth,
I've tried to turn a bit of a corner relatively recently and
would try in most situations to avoid either all together.
however, i'm not above pointing out that someone, or a group
of someones is 'bitching,' which is way different than
pointing out that someone or something is 'bitchin'.

punctuation, letters, the English language is so fickle.

[thefan]

bobus, 'you idiot, is not grammatically acceptable. you see
in the post in question I wrote: "I win. you bitch."

replace that with "I win. you idiot." see, it just doesn't
work. it's more of the caveman speak that Tim seems to
think I was engaging in.

I win. you lose. correct.
I win. you ding dong, nimrod, nincompoop, dodo, loser.
see, it just doesn't work.

[Euh]

It's indeed confusing since people are used to see you
insult people regularly.


(hint: you is not JT)

[thefan]

mostly I only insult you so I imagine you are pretty
accustomed to it.

of course, if you had anything to offer. . . ever. . .
things could be different.

[ager...@gmail.com]

Bobus wrote:
> "You bitch" is ambiguous since bitch can be a noun or a
> verb.

---oh bob us.....you're ambiguous.
~~~~~~~~~

> Put another way, if Jimmy had said "you idiot",

---you hadn't posted yet.
~~~~~~~~~~~

> Jackson's confusion is understandable. I mistook Jimmy's
> meaning initially

---SEE!
if you hadn't let that secret out.....no one would have to call you and idiot, as you suggested.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

but understood it when I read it a second
> time.

---are you bragging about having to read a two word sentence TWICE to understand it?

[ager...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 3:38:03 PM UTC-4, Euh wrote:
> It's indeed confusing since people are used to see you
> insult people regularly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---hold on....yet ANOTHER genius post by einstein.

hey, little fella.....you might have left some letters off one of your words......you idiot....you bitch...you lose....er.

it's indeed confusing since people are used to SEE you insult people regularly.

your inability to not be a dumbass....is confusing.

[Euh]

thefan wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 12:40

> mostly I only insult you so I imagine you are pretty
> accustomed to it.

No, it hurts my feelings everytime. I have very low
self-esteem.

[thefan]

get out and accomplish something. you'd be surprise what
that would do for your ego.

[ager...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 12, 2013 4:01:03 PM UTC-4, Euh wrote:

> No, it hurts my feelings everytime. I have very low
> self-esteem.

~~~~~~~~~~~


--learning to spell might help......see above.

[eegan]

this is getting dumb. someone's obviously been called a
bitch before. i win; you bitch. maybe it was a semi-colon
that would have been best. OR, if we would have done
something so uncanny and strange to his reputation, given
the sound argument he had been lambasting against you, he
would've said, "I win, ya bitch!" or, "I win, bitch!"

but anyway, let's get back on point now. you were reforming
the club team's style of play. that's reforming, not
re-forming...though that might be best. give the name a
dirt nap.

where's the thread on the usa team's foul call on
double-game point against germany at wyndmill!>? that's
where i want to see some rsd heavyweights posting....

[eegan]

editing police: i meant:

OR, if he (meaning the fan)....would have done
something....so strange (meaning counter-productive to his
argument).....

on with this instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFuxkWqiRzw&feature=youtu.be&t=53m50s

from this:
http://ultiworld.com/2013/08/09/rule-check-windmill-windup-finals/#more-11004

[fu snoopy]

You are all clearly DICKS! How much joy do you get typing
bitch on your keyboard? Seriously? How much joy? Big bag of
DICKS!

[ager...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:17:56 AM UTC-4, fu snoopy wrote:
> You are all clearly DICKS! How much joy do you get typing
>
> bitch on your keyboard? Seriously? How much joy? Big bag of
>
> DICKS!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---well i bet the joy is completely different that typing ANYTHING like 'bag of dicks'
totally different.
totally separate.
totally opposite.
unlike 'bag of dicks'.
typing 'bitch' is a world apart from 'bag of dicks'

hold on....no.....it might be about the same.

hey...fu snoop...you're probably experiencing the exact same joy.
weird...huh?

[ager...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:17:56 AM UTC-4, fu snoopy wrote:

> You are all clearly DICKS! How much joy do you get typing
>
> bitch on your keyboard? Seriously? How much joy? Big bag of
>
> DICKS!

~~~~~~~~


--fu snoop,
i can't recall your name here at rsd.....
have you read about the ground tap?
you write like an ultimate expert.....do you know the REAL reason for the ground tap?
check out the thread about it and please reply.

[Euh]

praxis wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 15:34
> from this:
> http://ultiworld.com/2013/08/09/rule-check-windmill-windup-f
> inals/#more-11004



looks like a bad call to me...no foul.

Flatball needs refs.

[Lance Marput]

3:21 ?

looks like a no foul to me also...

lame call by the boys in white...

maybe you should get certified and become a ref-zerver
euhng.

Peter Mc
MDSC

[Bobus]

Agreed. Flo (red) was already in the air and could not
avoid landing/falling on the spot where Sam (white) and he
made contact. At best this is incidental contact, at worst
this is a blocking foul on Sam, since he was the only one
between the two who had any chance of avoiding the collision
in the first place.

Refs make bad calls too unfortunately. And having them
could potentially change the culture of the game in negative
ways (eg, intentional fouling, flopping). Though,
admittedly, it doesn't seem to be a problem in the MLU and
AUDL (yet anyways).

[Bobus]

Jimmy: fair enough. Like I said, it was a moment's
confusion, but I quickly figured out what you meant. I
imagine others may have had the same reaction, maybe so,
maybe not.

Gerics: time to take your meds man.

[thefan]

if we're changing gears to the Windmill play, Wow, that's a
tough one. lots of contact. at time of contact the dude in
white has his back to the defender and looks to be trying to
clean up the disc. don't know for sure if he had a play on
it. that disc was moving away from him and his momentum
wasn't going that direction but the contact eliminated the
any possibility of him trying. I don't know that it looks
to me like a terrible or great call and probably could have
gone either way if there had been refs present. I don't
think that I as a referee would have called it but I can
certainly see why it was called and how do you tell a player
that he had no play on the disc? I was looking at it and in
his mind was about to make a killer layout grab to save the
game for his team. from the defenders perspective, he d'd
that disc up and just gave his team life on double game
point. i'd love to hear how some observers would have ruled
on that one. after watching it about a dozen times, it's
pretty ambiguous to me.

[Lance Marput]

imo

i think the guy was flailing, not in control...and went with
a bad call....and knew it was a bad call.

Peter Mc

[Euh]

thefan wrote on Tue, 13 August 2013 10:53

With that angle (see link below showing the same play in
slowmo), I dont see why you think he had a legit chance for
the disc. He would have needed 2-3 extra steps and a great
layout. His eyes were still contemplating the disc when he
was hit, he wasnt (yet) set to go near where the disc was
going to fall.
http://www.youtube.com/v/cFuxkWqiRzw&hl=en_US&fs=1&

[thefan]

the link you posted is at the start of the game.

the way i'm looking at it, the disc lands about 8 feet or so
from where his outstretched hand landed when he fell. so I
figure one step and a layout gets him there. now his
momentum was going the other way and he was trying to change
directions. it's not an unmakeable play but it would be a
tough one. some guys can get there, others, like you
apparently need 2 or 3 extra steps and probably someone to
hand you the disc. I don't know the player personally but I
know some guys that could have made that play, or at least
that I think might could make that play.

those are the tough foul calls to make. the "your foul kept
me from making the attempt on the disc" call. could he have
made it? would he have fallen short? we don't know and
never will, the other dude knocked him down first. it sucks
that the game ended on that call for sure but I don't know
if I agree with anyone who says either way that it was an
easy call to make. lots of moving parts.

[Lance Marput]

jimmy.....

click and drag to the far end of the clip....and watch.

[Euh]

- When I click on the link, it brings me directly to the 53
min mark (1 min before the play)

- Please give us the names of the guys who would have made
that play. Metropolis needs more than one guy wearing
skintight spandex

[ager...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:12:04 AM UTC-4, Bobus wrote:

> Gerics: time to take your meds man.

~~~~~~~~


---bob us, you got the wrong fella.

[Euh]

Slightly off topic, but is Ben Wiggins the guy who shot the
Cop-who-became-Robocop ?

[Lance Marput]

there are some good posts....from cooler heads than
ours...after the ultiworld piece on that play.

http://ultiworld.com/2013/08/09/rule-check-windmill-windup-finals/#more-11004


Peter Mc

[eegan]

hey fan,

if you get flown over to run a clinic and teach the game and
stuff and the team you're on makes the finals of the tourney
and it's double-game point, and your team has already turned
it over during this un-clinic like possession, do you make
that call? seems diplomacy has to factor in here somewhere.

[thefan]

Lance, I read some of that thread, including Wiggins and
Harkness, the dude who called the foul. the take away from
the Harkness post was that he believed he was going to catch
the disc and was then unable to make the effort due to
contact. it wasn't a completely uncatchable disc from where
he was but it was certainly going to take an athletic play
to get there. like I said, some people could, others
couldn't. he believed he could and called the foul.

[thefan]

praxis, I wasn't aware of those details. I was surprised
to see just how many turns there were on double game point
and that's an interesting angle, the diplomacy card. it's a
tough call and it's a good argument for observers/refs since
it redirects the animosity away from the players and onto a
3rd party on tricky, subjective calls like that one.

I don't really have a strong answer i'm willing to stand
behind on that call. I can see it both ways and I honestly
don't know how much diplomacy should weigh into it.

I know that's not the usual gusto that I post with, but that
situation has got me twisted. if i'm on the receiving end
of that one, i'm raging, hopping mad. if i'm on the ground
with some dude on top of me i'm saying, "I could have caught
that disc but you rolled up my legs."

[Lance Marput]

Jimmy thefan...

Yup, i saw that post.

Peter Mc

[Bobus]

thefan wrote on Wed, 14 August 2013 12:40

> if i'm on the ground with some dude on top of me i'm
> saying, "I could have caught that disc but you rolled up
> my legs."

To which the red player might respond, "Nope, you ran into
the spot where I was unavoidably going to land that was
previously unoccupied when I leapt into the air to make the
play."

Interestingly, earlier on the same point, the red team made
a bad call but then retracted it after the USA team
protested.

Too bad that game will be remembered more for that call than
anything else...

[thefan]

>To which the red player might respond, "Nope, you ran into
the spot where I was unavoidably going to land >that was
previously unoccupied when I leapt into the air to make the
play."

almost true. but if you look carefully, the defensive
player, as he makes his play, just brushes the legs of an
offensive player with his feet. enough to make him land
awkwardly. I suspect that without that bit of contact the
defender lands under some control on his feet. there might
still have been contact but it wouldn't have been of the
same intensity.

and, yes, it always sucks when what was obviously a hard
fought, close game is remembered for one call on one point.

I did see that bad call and that was much more clearly a bad
call in my opinion. this one seems to have people twisted
up a bit. I suspect the debate on the retracted call would
be a lot shorter.

[Jed]

thefan wrote on Wed, 14 August 2013 12:32

I will buy that he might have had a play on the disc, but
that's only one relevant factor. The other, which trumps the
first, is that Sam is really the one initiating contact. You
move into a spot that an airborne player can't avoid, that's
your foul.

I can certainly see why Sam might have thought it was a
foul. He was knocked down from behind, when he otherwise
might have made a play. He probably doesn't realized that it
was all part of the same initial defensive bid. Therein lies
the problem - only the player who believes he's been fouled
can call it, but that player often has a limited
perspective.

[thefan]

>You move into a spot that an airborne player can't avoid,
that's your foul.

maybe you were writing this while before my post to bobus
became visible. maybe you disagree. either way . . .

watch the reply again. see the defender brush the offensive
player with his feet just enough to make him land awkwardly.
I think this is the reason that the defender crashes into
the defender AFTER landing. it's a minor point but one
worth considering, though i am not in any way insinuating
that Sam looked at the defender and carefully placed himself
in a spot where he believed he was safe from a collision. i
think he was after the disc, trying to make a play and got
hit.

while i have continually defended the foul call on here i
will say this: if i were reffing or observing the game i
would not have called a foul or upheld the foul after a
contest. i don't think it's a BAD call but i don't love it
either.

[Knappy]

Jed: "Therein lies the problem - only the player who

believes he's been fouled can call it, but that player often
has a limited perspective."

And, yet, some of the same Europeans who have their Speedos
all in a bunch over this 50/50 call are the same folks who
don't want observers at the world games.

Jed hit the old proverbial nail on its head.

[Euh]

Knappy wrote on Wed, 14 August 2013 12:07

> Jed: "Therein lies the problem - only the player who
> believes he's been fouled can call it, but that player
> often has a limited perspective."
>
> And, yet, some of the same Europeans who have their
> Speedos all in a bunch over this 50/50 call are the same
> folks who don't want observers at the world games.
>
> Jed hit the old proverbial nail on its head.

fix that for you:

"...don't want BIASED observers at the world games"

[Lance Marput]

"Therein lies the problem - only the player who believes
he's been fouled can call it, but that player often has a
limited perspective."

uh....knappy...a player who doesn't Actually Believe he has
been fouled can also call it.


Peter Mc

[Lance Marput]

imo

..if he had stayed a few yards back from the ruckus... he
would have gotten the disk.

[thefan]

a raging dipshit who never has anything productive to offer
wrote:

"fix that for you:

"...don't want BIASED observers at the world games" "

what the hell does that mean? who does want biased
observers? has having biased observers ever been brought
up? how does one recruit biased observers?

please go away. grown folks are talking here.

[thefan]

from Lance: imo

...if he had stayed a few yards back from the ruckus... he

would have gotten the disk.

hindsight is 20/20. if i'm picking a team and there's a
dude always staying back from the ruckus hoping to get the
disc, i'm giving him a clipboard and one of those water
carrier that the trainers in college football have and
telling him, "stay back from the ruckus. make a bunch of
marks on that clipboard and run out to the huddle when we
call a timeout. you're an important part of this team's
success."

[Lance Marput]

he ain't heavy, he's my jimmy...

[thefan]

I don't know what that means. back on topic! that Euh
windbag took our eyes off the ball.

[Euh]

thefan wrote on Wed, 14 August 2013 12:32

> "...don't want BIASED observers at the world games" "
>
> what the hell does that mean? who does want biased
> observers? has having biased observers ever been brought
> up? how does one recruit biased observers?
>
> please go away. grown folks are talking here.

Watch Rocky IV (the one featuring Alex Nord), maybe you'll
understand

[thefan]

have you ever had anything meaningful to add to anything?
ever?

[Lance Marput]

i've never figured out the nuances of the sport slang
"baller" ...which is used here now and then.

does this make the guy who called the foul a baller
or not a baller?

this might be a toad clever question...

peter mc
midwest
disc
sports
collection