PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE!
Josh Moore
formation of a new professional Ultimate league, coming this
April 2012. Today the AUDL put out it's first national
press release, which can be viewed here:
We would like to thank the members of this forum that have
offered thoughts, support and involvement over the past
several months, and welcome all who have interest in what we
are doing to learn more. We are encouraging the Ultimate
community to engage within the AUDL as players, coaches,
officials, sponsors, or fans, and help take the sport to
another level. We invite you to visit the league and team
websites and follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
In Ultimate,
Josh Moore, President
American Ultimate Disc League
www.theaudl.com
mailto:in...@theaudl.com
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
HateTrain
city represented at nationals this year (and a bottom one at
that), it would be interesting to see what sort of product
and quality would get put out.
ultimatesamwood
> lotta good players out in indianapolis?
A number of Madcow's players are based in and around
Indianapolis.
You might remember Madcow as an elite club team who has made
Nationals in the past and lost this year in the game-to-go.
homrbush
to play in this professional league.
keg
mvuong
be super extreme with the added x in there.
Bulb
There goes the Philadelphia team.
Alex Peters
> Division championships on the same weekend as Wildwood?
> There goes the Philadelphia team.
Whoever this mysterious Philadelphia owner is will probably
be surprised when their entire fan base chooses to go play
in their SL game instead of attending home games.
Bulb
> Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:59
> > Division championships on the same weekend as
> > Wildwood? There goes the Philadelphia team.
>
>
> Whoever this mysterious Philadelphia owner is will
> probably be surprised when their entire fan base chooses
> to go play in their SL game instead of attending home
> games.
Well, the owners are apparently Katrel Kelly and David
Fitzgerald:
http://www.philadelphiaspinners.com/index.php/team/players-a-coachesgroup1/philly-spinners
Some quick Google'ing leads me to believe that David is the
assistant coach of West Catholic High School's freshman
football team, and Katrel Kelly is a rapper:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-h-fitzgerald-jr/32/572/ba5
http://www.britishhiphop.co.uk/features/interviews/trel_mack.html
I am convinced this is a joke.
Mankind
professional league. Refs, rule changes to make the game
more watchable, games played in stadiums....what terrible
ideas. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for
me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a
public forum.
Considering I've been playing ultimate for 10 years and have
been paid approximately (complete wild ass guess) -$5,000 a
year for it I am pretty excited for the opportunity to play
for a net zero cost. I'm looking forward to seeing what
they come up with.
Alex Peters
> Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to
> see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a
> public forum.
It's not the concepts, it's the execution and the lack of
information. Some of the rule changes seem almost arbitrary
and poorly thought out.
Maybe it'll work, but I don't see it doing any better than
http://www.kronum.com, which is ridiculously obscure but
still seems to have far, far better funding, execution and
technology (sweet trailers and video recaps of games and
stats on their website) than the AUDL.
Jordan
to build the league with existing clubs, or at least work
with them in developing their plans. The ultimate community
is so tight knit, it would've seemed logical to try to tap
into that instead of working from the outside in with
"owners" who don't seem to have much experience or knowledge
of ultimate.
This will be fun to watch no matter what happens.
Jordan
Madcow #33, future Columbus Crane?!?!?!?!!?
--
http://kenyonultimate.wordpress.com
Bulb
> Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to
> see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a
> public forum.
Who's bashing it?
rsdaccount
The Fox
the average salary is per player? Where is the funding
coming from to support player salaries, insurance, expenses,
travel, promotion, etc...? This sounds like a pretty big
endeavor!
HateTrain
against any team at nationals.
point is not to bash any player or team. but just imagine
what revolver players would think watching this league.
Baer
viable/profitable? Where will the money come from? Where
will the players come from? Where will the fans come from?
Does anybody know anyone who is involved with this venture
so far who has any demonstrable knowledge of the sport?
This would truly be awesome if it took off, and the Ultimate
community should root for something like this to work. But
it would also be nice to see some credibility.
mgd.mitch
> I am convinced this is a joke.
like one.
My guess is "joke" as well. The choice of cities, the lack
of information about any players, etc, etc.
Baer
to speed on the disucssion:
http://www.rsdnospam.com/index.php?t=msg&th=2478&prevloaded=1&&start=0
http://www.rsdnospam.com/index.php?t=msg&th=35539&goto=101849&#msg_101849
Force Flick
won't get much information on players until then.
Something else is every team website looks different, and
with the exception of a couple, they look really bad. Every
NFL team's website looks basically the same. Helps
legitimize it, and there is barely anything that legitimizes
this league, as of right now.
I agree we should be excited for this league, and I am.
Let's just hope it does more good than harm.
Alan Hoyle
once if they come to my area.
I would suggest that they expand their ruleset
significantly. For example, there is no mention of what
defines a foul, positioning before a pull, and it reads like
momentum carrying the disc into the endzone would result in
a score. Also, there is no mention of what happens when
play stops (do player freeze?), how continuation works,
picks seem to be legal (intentional rule change?), or how
the yardage penalties are assessed.
On specific question I see that needs a lot of expansion:
how does the clock work? Is it stopped time (like in
Basketball: clock runs only when disc/ball is in play),
semi-stopped (like in US Football: clock runs during
possession, sometimes between plays, and stops after
scores), or running (like Soccer: runs continuously whether
or not anything is happening on the field or not). What
rules are there to balance against delay-of-game tactics?
Innovation and experimentation such as this are good things
for the sport. Now, if it's all a joke that's fine, but I
don't know why someone would waste that kind of
time/money/effort....
-alan
homrbush
Says the league is on the up and up; didn't have time for
in-depth talk about it.
I'm 50/50 on whether it's a joke.
Lance Marput
ultimate country, Missouri). Never met him.
Earned a degree in accounting... is what he told me in
recent e-mail.
Who knows, maybe he's a numbers, fundraising & marketing
genius.
Peter Mc
MDSC
(MUtants staff advisor since ~ 2003)
Baer
very poorly conceived.
Squeaks
> It looks like Indy is having a combine on October 30.
This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that generates criticism.
Holding the combine during club nationals? Seriously, who thought that
was a good idea? Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
mgd.mitch
> This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that
> generates criticism. Holding the combine during club
> nationals? Seriously, who thought that was a good idea?
> Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
doesn't matter. Second, on the off chance this is real and
they are dumb enough to choose cities outside of current
centers of interest for the sport... choosing a date that
coincides with nationals wouldn't matter since they only
really one or two areas that are currently representing
elite ultimate in the first place.
It's these kinds of details that make this attempt at a joke
a very bad one, or an attempt at a real business a horrible
one.
Reggie Fanelli
> Josh Moore, President
> American Ultimate Disc Leaguewww.theaudl.com
> mailto:i...@theaudl.com
~~~~~~~~~~
---The UOA should be officiating this League.
....and training all the officials.
Baer
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.244747558903991.62622.199397953438952&type=3
Louisville looks legit, you can become an unpaid intern if
you work long hours and weekends to support the team!
http://www.internships.com/posting/sports-marketing-intern-i8047
Baer
> ---The UOA should be officiating this League.
Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread
that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the
UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna
happen?
mgd.mitch
> Louisville looks legit, you can become an unpaid intern
> if you work long hours and weekends to support the team!
> http://www.internships.com/posting/sports-marketing-intern-i
> 8047
Quote:
> Company: Kentucky Ultimate.com
> Address: 325 E. Main Street, Suite 150
> Location: Louisville, KY
It might be a little awkward working out of a
http://www.theupsstorelocal.com/6123/. Guess they will just
work from home and just attend meetings at the UPS Store.
J Mac
quote from his Franchise Opportunity document that he
emailed me:
"Salaries of players/coaches this is negotiable by team,
but many players may play for free given the fact that
playing in organized leagues usually costs THEM money for
participation."
The numbers in the document are fanciful and would, at a
minimum, take hundreds of hours to achieve the sponsorship
he dreams of. If anyone wants me to email them the document
so you can see the bullshit yourself, feel free to email
me.
j mac
Baer
I have an older copy of the same proposal, when he was
trying to get teams in the midwest, in towns that had no
sizable Ultimate community to speak of. He speculated that,
in addition to sponsorships and TV revenue, profits could
come from a "conservative" estimate of 2000 paid fans at
each game.
In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly
pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that
even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.
LMAO!
Doc
Mimmo
Reggie Fanelli
> Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread
> that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the
> UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna
> happen?
---obviously....we'd be thrilled beyond belief to help out!
i want to officiate games....
and i know jason and i would train the heck out officials in the areas
where the teams will be located!
Alex Peters
> In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly
> pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that
> even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.
>
> LMAO!
How many fans were there for nexgen?
I think they said there were something like 500 for Seattle, paying (I
think) $5 each. Which is $2500.
At Philly I would estimate there were about 300, paying nothing.
Josh Moore
involved. We realize this endeavor is not going to be
received with excitement from everybody, but our goal is to
put ourselves out there for those on the site that may have
interest. It appears the same individuals that have been
vocal critics in the past are the same ones now. It seems a
small handful go out of their way to discredit every thing
we do every time the AUDL is mentioned, and that is
unfortunate. We understand that we have things to clean up
over the next six months prior to our first game and are
working to do so. I encourage anybody interested in
learning more about the league to contact me, as opposed to
outdated documents being sent without permission.
For those that have offered positive feedback - we will
consider putting more information up around our rules. Our
rulebook is pretty long and we did not want to overwhelm
somebody new to the sport, but rather, hit the highlights on
the website. We will work to make sure the full rules are
out there for the hardcore players and fans. Additionally,
we are currently working to update and standardize our team
websites, which should look very nice when it is all done.
If anybody is interested in learning about a team's plans
for player compensation, tryouts/training camps, etc. please
feel free to reach out to the respective owner, as these
will vary between teams. Finally, if anybody has any
questions, concerns, comments about the league, I invite you
to e-mail me and discuss any time. I would much rather have
a conversation rather than see wrong assumptions being
posted on a public forum.
Thanks!
J Mac
for failure; I have been wondering how the modified field
dimensions will affect the game. Right now a zone d is
fairly easy to run because the cup really only has to move
~30 yards side to side. With a full football width the zone
would have to move over 40 yards side to side. Add to that
the additional amount of room to make cuts and it seems like
the new field dimensions would kill zone d. Thoughts?
j mac
Occupy_Ultimate
promote their product.
http://www.columbuscranes.com/
1. I wonder what Ultivillage thinks of this.
2. If I was a player in one of the videos (sadly I'm not
good enough), I'd be against someone trying to profit off of
my team's hard work. AUDL is trying to sell a new brand of
ultimate, but they have a team using video of a team
playing USAU rules.
3. I'm all for a professional league, and while I wish these
guys the best, I would rather see the established club teams
be a part of it.
Baer
I think people really want to support this idea. Most of us
who have been involved with Ultimate for a long time have
often dreamed of either seeing or playing professional
Ultimate. Most of us clamor for the sport to have legitimate
recognition and growth. I told you the same when we first
spoke and met a couple years back.
Kudos to you for the vision. I'm actually impressed that you
found anyone to buy into your plan at all, so perhaps there
is some hope. But you have yet to provide any credible
information or answers about this, either on this forum or
in personal emails (although it has been some time since our
last conversation).
The Ultimate community is used to being marginalized, being
seen as a joke, or not taken seriously by other sports,
schools, media outlets, businesses, parks departments, talk
shows, and even our own families. What are doing to improve
this? The criticisms in this thread and others are not
unfounded, they are based upon observations of what you've
shown so far.
What are the wrong assumptions? What are we getting wrong?
What are we missing? What can you offer to the Ultimate
community that we have yet to see?
I want this to succeed. I will gladly eat crow if it
happens. Feel free to prove us wrong. Give us some
information. Give us something. But until then, we will
continue to opine about our observations, which are based
upon a working knowledge of the sport.
You have my email. You also have this forum. And your
website. And Facebook. And Twitter. You have lots of
opportunity to spark interest and provide information about
the AUDL and Ultimate in general. Go for it. And good luck.
CBrowning
about the league, I invite you to e-mail me and discuss any
time. I would much rather have a conversation rather than
see wrong assumptions being posted on a public forum."
:: next post ::
"Putting aside for now the fact that the league is destined
for failure..."
Hahahahaha. I loved this exchange. The guy makes an
empassioned plea for everyone to stop bashing his league,
and then the very next post, J-mac just drops the hammer
with "Putting aside for now the fact that the league is
destined for failure." That was awesome.
school
Josh, has gone so far without the consult of the Ultimate
community. As Baer says, why isn't more information
provided. Who else would be better suited to promote and
develop professional Ultimate than the people who have been
playing this game, and organizing it. The UPA/USAU would be
the obvious choice to work in tandem with, and it would
provide you some real credibility.
The reason a lot of people are questioning you and the
seemingly arbitrary decisions you're making about the new
league (in regards to Ultimate, not to the business side),
is because you lack the credibility of an organization that
has any roots in Ultimate. As far as we can tell through
internet searches, the only roots your people have are in
sports endeavours that have failed to take off and have been
plagued with problems.
To me, this seems very similar to Vince McMahon starting the
XFL, which included a number of silly rule changes, and went
up against the much stronger NFL. Right now, there is
already an established body that governs Ultimate in this
country, the USAU, and while we here often spend many hours
discussing how it can be improved, we certainly have backed
this organization. The best teams and best players in the
country (world?) are found here in the USA and they compete
in the USAU Club Championships.
I think what is entirely unclear, and in many ways
offensive, to the Ultimate community is that you have
started up a completely independent venture, which, while
you say is no competition to the USAU (and I agree with
that), is built in competition and ignorance to the
overriding body that governs Ultimate in this country.
What you, Josh, and we the Ultimate community have in
common, is that we would want to see the very best Ultimate,
and therby best Ultimate players, compete in such a league.
Anything less and the credibility of this sport, instead of
being realized and furthered, will only be hurt.
Unfortunately, the majority of the great players are real
people with full-time jobs, who make a lot of sacrifices to
play at the top level. It looks like what you're building
(and I have to assume this because of the lack of
information you've provided) will not allow players to have
normal lives and jobs, but will also not offer any sort of
meaningful compensation. You've also scheduled events for
dates that conflict with event where the best players
participate. This could be avoided if you had actually
decided to consult with the USAU, instead of having us as
one place to publicize. In the end, I fear, your biggest
problem will not be a business model, or rule changes, but
rather that you have no legitimate connection, or attempt to
connect with, the best players and the Ultimate body as a
whole.
Like Baer, I'd be happy to see this succeed and eat crow,
but you just haven't set this up properly.
I could go on.
-School
darkcrusader48 <at> verizon <dot> net
pmor <at> mail <dot> med <dot> upenn <dot> edu
Eric
It is possible they don't want current, elite level ultimate players.
Perhaps they're more interested in recruiting elite level athletes,
regardless of athletic background ( although a background in team
sports is probably preferrable), figuring that athletic ability is the
premium requirement and they can worry about teaching the sport later.
I'm not endorsing this, simply raising it as an alternative
possibility.
Josh Moore
majority have been excited about the venture. We don't have
a formal arrangement with them at this time and the private
conversations we've had with them will remain just that -
given this is a public message board. However, we are going
to be introducing Ultimate to a lot of people in the general
public who would not have known about it otherwise. We feel
that we will bring a lot more people into the sport and to
USAU than we could potentially "take away". We have no
opposition to our players competing in USAU events in
addition to ours. We have great respect for USAU and what
they mean to the sport. That is one reason we aren't
looking to "poach" entire club teams. We love what is there
already and want to provide something extra for those that
want it. There are many players and fans of the sport who
have approached us and want to be a part of something unique
within the sport. This does not mean either/or in regards
to USAU and the AUDL in most cases.
I will be the first to admit that the owners who are
financially backing the teams don't have the prior expertise
in the sport that those on this board do. However, they
have surrounded themselves with managers, coaches, players,
etc. who are and can provide that aspect of it. There are
some modifications to the rules to accomodate a
spectator-first event, such as the use of officials, timed
game, etc. but other than those changes, it is essentially
the same game. It is still 7 vs. 7 trying to get the disc
down the field to the endzone. Rule variations are a part
of different sports played at different levels. Do we have
the perfect mix? Maybe not, and we will continually
evaluate our set of rules and will modify as needed. It is
a challenge to balance the rules the players want versus
what may make more sense for the spectator. It's a process
that we take seriously and appreciate feedback on the
gameplay.
Fish
Just kinda feels that way, doesn't it?
fish
mvuong
on this board in the face of such criticism. Keep it up.
Baer
Also, the AUDL logo is pretty cool.
Snaptastic
October is absolutely ludicrous and almost irreparably
damages my opinion of this venture. I mean, I want to
believe that this is a serious idea but it is difficult to
move past this! Would the creator of the league please shed
some light on why a team would hold their combine on a
weekend when 95+ percent of the elite ultimate players in
North America will be in Florida?
I don't see how the reason could be, as someone just
suggested, to attract non-ultimate-playing elite calibre
athletes with the intention of teaching them how to play.
Being able to throw a disc is a very specific skill that
takes considerably longer than 4-5 months to master. And if
the idea is to make this a "professional" league, the last
thing you'd want is 14 scrubs (even supremely athletic ones)
running around and turfing discs left right and centre.
That said, I can't see any other way that this makes any
semblance of sense. It seems like such an obvious
oversight. So, Josh, if some sort of
explanation/justification could be given for this then I
think you'll put quite a few minds at ease. Until then I
just don't see how YOU can be taking this seriously, let
alone how any of us can.
Josh Moore
actually have multiple combine events and have let
individuals who will be in Florida know that there will be
separate opportunities for tryouts. It is a way to start
evaluating talent earlier and perhaps focus on a smaller
group of guys for this initial tryout. As far as I'm aware,
this is the only combine event being held during this
timeframe. A few of our teams are looking at the January
timeframe for combines at some indoor facilities. We try to
avoid some of the major dates for USAU as much as possible.
For example, we are making sure there are no games in the
Western division during Poultry days. Additionally, we
wanted our season to end in early to mid August so that the
top athletes can still partipicate at nationals if desired.
I hope that helps answer your question.
mixnuts
as the competitive "winter league" that club players use
during the offseason, and then you can expand from there.
There's definitely a lot of interest in competitive ultimate
during the offseason (at least, for people who aren't too
burnt out from the club season). And out west, the weather
is pretty decent during the winter too.
bil
homrbush
> Just don't let Canada in. They will ruin it.
I know you're being funny, but he really couldn't have
Canadians playing. If they are being paid to play, they
would require a work visa, which is not easy to acquire.
Granted, it would be quite easy to just not admit that you
being paid to play, and treat like your usual foray into the
US for a tournament, but to be on the up and up, the AUDL
would need to secure visas for Canadian players.
J Mac
Also, as mentioned before, it's unlikely they're being
paid...which really isn't professional ultimate to begin
with.
Matt Johnson
> The American Ultimate Disc League is proud to announce the
> formation of a new professional Ultimate league, coming this
> April 2012. Today the AUDL put out it's first national
> press release, which can be viewed here:
>
> http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/174368-1318016661-the-american-ultim...
>
> We would like to thank the members of this forum that have
> offered thoughts, support and involvement over the past
> several months, and welcome all who have interest in what we
> are doing to learn more. We are encouraging the Ultimate
> community to engage within the AUDL as players, coaches,
> officials, sponsors, or fans, and help take the sport to
> another level. We invite you to visit the league and team
> websites and follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
>
> In Ultimate,
>
> Josh Moore, President
> American Ultimate Disc Leaguewww.theaudl.com
> mailto:i...@theaudl.com
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
The rich get richer and the poor get Gnarwhal. Why isn't there an
Iowa team based on amphibious whales?
Baer
The Indy AlleyCats FB page indicates some pretty stubborn
insistence on the tryouts being on 10/30, with no mention of
multiple tryout dates:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/River-City-Revolution/251545874876266?ref=pb#!/pages/Indianapolis-AlleyCats/148165401941101
The Buffalo team had tryouts scheduled for October but later
rescheduled for November after realizing that teams would
still be playing in their season.
Seems like mistakes that would be made by organizers who
have no involvement with, knowledge of, or connection to
Ultimate.
J Mac
> Seems like mistakes that would be made by organizers who
> have no involvement with, knowledge of, or connection to
> Ultimate.
He keeps asking for your support, except when it's solid
advice grounded in reality.
Julian Bonds
ulticritic
>
> What you, Josh, and we the Ultimate community have in
> common, is that we would want to see the very best Ultimate,
> and therby best Ultimate players, compete in such a league.
> Anything less and the credibility of this sport, instead of
> being realized and furthered, will only be hurt.
what about all the further hurt that the upa/usau has put on the sport
by clinging to archic ideals and madating anti ref policies and
propaganda?
----------------------------------------------
This could be avoided if you had actually
> decided to consult with the USAU,
i dont think nexgen consulted, or even networked, with usau......and
their shit went off pretty damn good. this dosent mean this guys plan
will work if he dosent either.......just dont go touting the people at
usau as "experts" in the field of promoting a sport when the truth is
that they are a bunch of inept fucks themselves.
--------------------------------------------------------------
instead of having us as
> one place to publicize. In the end, I fear, your biggest
> problem will not be a business model, or rule changes, but
> rather that you have no legitimate connection, or attempt to
> connect with, the best players and the Ultimate body as a
> whole.
which is exactly why a guy like brody should be ploting such a
venture. not saying he would want to but he'd probably be pretty damn
good at it. and if it was HIS attempt that stuck and was the
foundation for future pro ultimate think of the stake he'd have in
it.
ulticritic
> The American Ultimate Disc League is proud to announce the
> formation of a new professional Ultimate league, coming this
> April 2012. Today the AUDL put out it's first national
> press release, which can be viewed here:
>
> http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/174368-1318016661-the-american-ultim...
>
> We would like to thank the members of this forum that have
> offered thoughts, support and involvement over the past
> several months, and welcome all who have interest in what we
> are doing to learn more. We are encouraging the Ultimate
> community to engage within the AUDL as players, coaches,
> officials, sponsors, or fans, and help take the sport to
> another level. We invite you to visit the league and team
> websites and follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
>
> In Ultimate,
>
> Josh Moore, President
> American Ultimate Disc Leaguewww.theaudl.com
> mailto:i...@theaudl.com
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
hey josh......as anybody with an ounce of sports knowledge will tell
you, its the statrs that really sell sports. so who are the audl's
stars?
Josh Moore
sports. All of our teams have plans to announce their
coaches and players in a press release down the road. I do
not want to take that opportunity away from them by
announcing anybody's roster beforehand. I hope you can
respect that position.
school
You don't have to announce the rosters, but give us
something. A teaser at least. Get people excited. Are there
any players selected yet? Players in contact with? If a new
basketball league was being started up to conteract what is
happening with the lockout, and LeBron were involved I'm
SURE such a big name would be thrown out there.
And even without names, can we talk about where these
players are coming from. Any stats on what their credentials
as players are? I think that is far more important that
Josh's credentials as a player. Are these out-of-college
players, like NexGen? Do they represent only the local areas
around where the teams are based? Are you in contact
with/have been pursuing men from all over the country?
Canada? What teams have been approached? Revolver?
Ironside?
Or do you simply not have any players committed/people in
mind. My thought is that there may not be any commitment or
interest yet, or some of those approached would have stepped
up and said something. (Certainly at this stage of the game
there are no legally binding contracts preventing said
players from speaking publicly)
school
When I refer to the USAU and the elite players in the same
post, I almost meant them as one in the same. We as players
are all part of the USAU. I did not mean to suggest that it
was only the management of the USAU that should be
approached. As you point out, NexGen ran on its own, but it
was a core of very talented players pooled from strong club
teams throughout the nation. That is however, a body of USAU
players, despite not having direct ties to USAU leadership.
This distinction to me is irrelevant to my point, which is
that Josh should be surrounded by the best in the US in this
endeavor.
ulticritic
> Ulticritic,
> When I refer to the USAU and the elite players in the same
> post, I almost meant them as one in the same.
adminstration the other are players.
-----------------------------------------
We as players
> are all part of the USAU.
events you/they compete in, right?
--------------------------------------------
I did not mean to suggest that it
> was only the management of the USAU that should be
> approached.
thats how i responded
-------------------------------------------
As you point out, NexGen ran on its own, but it
> was a core of very talented players pooled from strong club
> teams throughout the nation.
---------------------------------------
That is however, a body of USAU
> players, despite not having direct ties to USAU leadership.
body of wfdf players. to me they are all independant players/teams
that happen to compete in 3 events per year that are usau affiliated.
--------------------------------------------------
> that Josh should be surrounded by the best in the US in this
> endeavor.
administration. next time say what you mean and i wont have to
critique what you say.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
> You are correct that the top players drive the popularity of
> sports. All of our teams have plans to announce their
> coaches and players in a press release down the road.
--------------------------------------------
I do
> not want to take that opportunity away from them by
> announcing anybody's roster beforehand. I hope you can
> respect that position.
least throw out a name or two so that we, ultimates media, can get a
read as to how legit this "league" is gonna be. cause if ya dont you
just open yourself to questions and critisisms.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
poaches
Skyd magazine about this league with an interview with Josh
and Brent, in case you don't pay attention to that site.
http://skydmagazine.com/2011/10/skydcast-6-audl/
PhiladelphiaUltimate
First of all, I would like to Thank each and everyone of you
for taking the time out to give your thoughts on this new
venture. After reading all of the comments (the good. The
bad and the ugly) I realized that everyone here wants to see
the sport of ultimate grow as well as protect the Ultimate
Brand. There were many valid points that were constructive
enough for even me to see some of the realities we may face
as we take this journey. I do not see anything on this Forum
as negative feedback, This helps me understand where we need
to improve as a league and as a team. We will continue to do
the best we can to make this a great turnout. So again,
Thank You.
Secondly, I want to Thank Josh for having a vision to expand
the sport and take it to the next level. Josh has been
working extremely hard to get the AUDL together and it is
still a work in progress. I know with the support of all of
you, whether its a comment, advice, Suggestions or in
whatever form we can make something explosive. If some of
you don't like the idea of the AUDL that is ok, I just
invite you all to show appreciation with me.
Now my introduction.
My name is Katrel, and I am the Philadelphia Spinners team
owner. I've seen my name and team pop-up a few times on the
forum. I know you have some questions and want more
information and I promise to make that available as soon as
possible. Feel free to contact me anytime and I will do my
best to answer any questions or concerns.
Email: Kkelly at PhiladelpiaSpinners.com
Web: www.philadelphiaSpinners.com
Twitter: @phillyspinners
Ari
Okay, so I read this thread, and I listened to the podcast
at Skyd, and I think there's a discrepancy (no pun intended)
between the way the AUDL sees resistance to this idea and
what the resistance to this idea actually is.
***Ultimate players are not against the idea of an organized
professional league, ultimate players are against the idea
of such a league being done poorly, hurting the public
perception of the sport, and setting our growth back by a
few years***
Why haven't club/college team coaches & captains, adult and
rec league organizers, or youth league organizers been
contacted to drum up players, support, and excitement for
this league? You want good players and informed input and a
fan base? The mountain will probably not go to Mohammed, so
I suggest that Mohammed goes to the mountain.
We know the game and we are good at it. We're weary because
we can tell you already that you've made some key mistakes
and are off to a bad start. Tryout dates conflict with
pre-existing events. Teams are based in cities without
elite players or youth leagues players while cities like
Boston, Pittsburgh, and Washington go untapped. Websites
are not designed professionally across the board (what are
the chances some ultimate player might be willing to help
build a site for dirt cheap?). The rule changes, that many
of us have experimented with before, will not all work and
we can tell you which ones (the field can't be that wide and
timed games confers a similar problem as a basketball game
without a shot clock).
I want you guys to succeed, but you need to make
improvements to your organization to allow it to succeed. I
think you should start by hiring or announcing a big
recognizable name to your management or leadership that can
help guide you into how to create high-level ultimate. This
person could also be your spokesperson to handle Q&A's and
interviews, lend big-name credibility and knowledge to the
sport's teeming base. Isn't there a hole in the premise
that two guys who admittedly are not familiar with the elite
level game are going to re-create it?
It's not too late to incorporate the ultimate frisbee
machinery that already exits into your plans. Do it now, or
you will galvanize a lot of the base against you, and you
will fail. If you fail, the sports hurts; we all hurt.
Neither of us wants that.
Sincerely.
Ari Weitzman
player, coach, and spectator
ultimate7
doubts about this. But your complaints seem like sour grapes. This
group clearly hopes to sell their product to non-ultimate players.
Something that would have to be done to ever expand the sport to the
professional level.
> Teams are based in cities without elite players
player that SF, Boston, Atlanta, etc have, but they do have elite
players
>(the field can't be that wide and
> timed games confers a similar problem as a basketball game
> without a shot clock).
much offense? Also I don't think we've seen the entire rule book, I'm
guessing the will do something to prevent the keep away offense. 7
stall will help a bit with that probably.
>
> It's not too late to incorporate the ultimate frisbee
> machinery that already exits into your plans. Do it now, or
> you will galvanize a lot of the base against you, and you
> will fail. If you fail, the sports hurts; we all hurt.
> Neither of us wants that.
There are a lot of people that have played, excelled at, and
understand this sport, and to assume that just because they didn't
talk to me or anyone I know means that they didn't do their homework
seems conceited.
They are the ones doing all the work, putting up the money and they
decided to start small and local. Chance of long term sucess is
probably less than 50/50 no matter who they involved, but I certainly
wish them luck and will give them enough credit to assume they have
worked with some people "in the know"
Josh Moore
to see a professional league done poorly. We are going to
do everything we can to put something together that the
Ultimate community can be excited about. This is a work in
progress - we still have six months until an AUDL game is
played for the first time. We are continually evaluating
our approach, rules, etc. and this is why we welcome
feedback with open arms. There is a false assumption out
there that we did not talk to anybody involved in the sport
before developing what we have. Our organization and teams
have included people in management, coaching staff and now
some players that are all giving great guidance and ideas on
the direction of the league. Everybody involved with the
AUDL will be named in the near future. If somebody has a
question about personnel involvement for a given team, I
recommend contacting the team owner, as it is their place to
announce their staff and team how and when they choose.
Many current club and college players have contacted our
owners about playing for our teams and I invite any others
in those areas with interest to do so as well. One thing we
did not want to do is "poach" entire club teams from the
USAU scene because we do have respect for what is in place
already. Just because somebody in those cities may not have
heard from us or about us yet, does not mean they wouldn't
in the near future. It's a process that takes time and part
of the reason for getting the word out now is to get the
Ultimate community involved WITH us to help us build the
strong product that you all want to see in a professional
league. If the concern is that we are doing it without you,
you can change that by getting involved and we'd love to
have anybody who wants to help build a fantastic league.
Jed
it. It's been talked about for years, but someone has to go
try it at some point. This first try may not take off, but I
find it hard to believe that it will hurt the sport either.
If it fails, it will be because if fails to attract enough
interest or attention. It will not be some giant pie in the
face of the sport as a whole.
Meanwhile, we may get the attention of some athletes who
never heard of the game, or some enterprising individuals
who can learn from this effort, and either tweak it to make
it work, or starts something better down the road. In fact,
what's stopping others from making a similar effort in the
other corners of the country right now?
Josh - great to see action instead of just talk. All the
best to you.
Ari
communicator, which I appreciate. But I need more.
Part one: I would have chosen to get the word out
differently, as I think trying to reach players and fans
directly independent of team or league structure is a little
backwards, but I see your method and I think after you reach
a critical point you should have enough interest.
However, I am still curious as to why you didn't reach out
through captains, coaches, and administrators? There are
teams that have already gone through rigorous tryout
processes, and at an extremely high level of efficiency the
best players will be reachable through those teams. I'm not
saying take the whole team, I'm saying tell the players
about the league by contacting those teams directly. Once
word gets out through those players, it will get out to all
players. I think there is still time to do this.
Part Two: That's for reaching current players as potential
AUDL players and fans, but what about for building the
league? I'd like to know who you have working with you to
develop league rules and decide what cities have teams.
From my perspective, and I think this is a shared one, it
looks like the consultants you have in this regard have
decided on sub-optimal policies and through the language
your league has been using it seems that this year's
decisions are non-negotiable. I don't know how it would
hurt you to let us know the names of the people you have
helping you build the league.
I appreciate the effort and I do not consider myself a
cynic, I still need to be won over. I want to be excited
about this very very much, but I am not yet. What great
frisbee minds are involved with the architecture of this
league? If you don't want to release those names: 1- why
not? 2- it's going to become solely your job to answer
every nit-picking rules question that I and others have
until you do. And I'm making a mental list... there are
plenty.
I hear you wanting to reach out, and I like that. But
unless there's someone of high repute I can trust and see in
your system, I am going to be much more likely to interpret
the decisions you make that I disagree with as uninformed
rather than measured despite differentiation.
Part Three: Why the cities that you chose? Why not Boston?
Why not D.C. or Pittsburgh?
Appreciatively,
-Ari
P.S. If you haven't yet, you should definitely talk to Mike
Gerics (reggie fannelli) about officials. For however
inflammatory he may be at times, he has been training
officials and developing a more efficient regulation system
longer and more successfully than anybody.
poaches
> recognizable name to your management or leadership that
> can help guide you into how to create high-level ultimate.
> This person could also be your spokesperson to handle
> Q&A's and interviews, lend big-name credibility and
> knowledge to the sport's teeming base.
been talking about his marketability and wanting him to
organize a league, and he has said he reached out to the
USAU to get involved. Brodie + AUDL might be an interesting
partnership.
After listening to the podcast I am pretty excited to see
what happens. If I were anywhere near those cities I
definitely would be interested in trying out or helping out.
Do I think it has the potential to fail? Yes, but why would
that mean people shouldn't try to help it succeed?
I'll throw out a couple questions as well...
1. Have you had experienced players and teams play with
these rules to see what the overall effect is? I'd like to
think the answer would be an obvious yes, but from what I've
heard I can't be certain. I don't think it would be hard to
get some decent teams to come out and give it a shot. You
could even have a few teams come out and throw a little mini
tournament and then get feedback from all the teams.
2. Will these games be filmed and aired live or will there
be replays of games online (or even on tv)? As someone who
does not live close enough to watch any of these games live,
I know I would definitely be interested in watching online.
There are also many players who always want more coverage of
the sport. Perhaps you could make some money off of
sponsorships on streaming the games live. If you aren't
already aware, Frank from UltiVillage.com is someone who has
been successful at filming ultimate games and might be worth
contacting if you haven't already.
Josh Moore
Thank you for your questions. I will share portions of my
e-mail to you that you did not have prior to posting this.
We've had a lot of top players contact us directly with
interest, but until our rosters are officially set and the
players sign on to play for our teams, we can't announce
them quite yet. I'm sure a lot of our teams and staffs have
identified many of the top players, but may not have
initiated contact with them yet. Help in doing so is
greatly appreciated. To be clear, we WANT the best of the
sport to be involved. You are correct that there is still
time to do this. If anybody in the Ultimate community wants
to truly see a professional league find success, help spread
the word, help us with feedback, get involved. Our set of
rules is not non-negotiable. We had a test game with our
rules a couple months back and will have another one
shortly. We took to heart the feedback of the players and
did make some modifications. Modifications may result from
the next test game as well. However, there is not consensus
across the board on some of the rules - regardless of what
we ultimately have as our set of rules, there will always be
detractors that think they should be different, it's just a
part of the deal. The fact that it will be officiated lends
itself to derivations to the current game, but we don't
think they will be too severe of a change in the way the
game is played. We hear the feedback, the thoughts will be
taken into consideration. A group of players from the
Louisville area wrote our set of rules with us, so it was
not done independent of the Ultimate community and changes
in the future will involve the community as well.
Regarding the cities, Pittsburgh, Boston and DC are three
areas that will be expansion teams for year 2, along with
other larger markets within the sport. We did have people
lined up to run these teams but for various reasons could
not follow through in time for this season and we had to
scale it back to 8 teams for year 1. We absolutely realize
how big these markets are for the sport and definitely plan
to have teams there. Even though some of our cities aren't
powerhouses in the Ultimate community, many of them are
drawing players from surrounding areas. We've had players
from hours away plan to tryout for teams, so the talent pool
is not limited to those cities. So even if we aren't in
your market now, our owners would welcome the chance to
speak with you and see if there is a way to have you
involved. We plan to be in most of the major markets for
the sport across the country in the near future.
Regarding UOA, we have talked with Mike, and both sides want
to work together. We are still hashing out the details but
the desire to work together is mutual and we hope that
relationship can be formalized in the near future.
Steve Wang
that most ultimate players would be happy to see a league
succeed, but for most of us, the number one priority is the
integrity and the quality of the sport itself, and any
popularity or business concerns are secondary. We'd much
rather have a league that represents the sport well and
loses tons of money (granted, it's not our money), than one
that is able to scrape by for multiple seasons but presents
a mediocre version of the sport (compared to what one can
find on UltiVillage, or simply by attending USAU club
regionals, for free). One reason you're encountering so
much skepticism is because it appears as if the AUDL has
been looking at it in the opposite manner, thinking about
business first (and possibly in a short-sighted manner) and
ultimate second. For instance, it seems that owners were
contacted via non-ultimate networks and selected for their
willingness to invest, rather than their knowledge of, and
connection to, the sport at high levels. Franchise
locations seem to have been selected more for the ability to
find a local owner than for their ability to attract player
talent and fan bases. Rule changes seem to have been
implemented for expedience (a running clock for TV, field
widths so that football fields don't have to be modified)
more than for their effect on the game. I'd be happy if all
of this is just a wrong impression, but it's something that
will need to be corrected if you're going to attract players
and fans that are already invested in ultimate the way it's
currently played.
If I could make one small suggestion... try to get as many
of your owners down to Sarasota as possible, just to see
where the bar is set.
Ari
Thanks for this reply. You're answering most of my concerns
directly and it's making me feel more comfortable with this
idea to get an idea of the work that's gone on behind it. I
think we agree that we want the best out of the sport, which
is why I'm very happy that you're talking with Mike. I'm
glad to here that you've been experimenting with rules with
the Louisville crew; I've played against them in club, I
trust them to give you good feedback.
Let me say now that I believe 100% in officials for making a
watchable professional version of the game. I think anyone
who has played with the UOA and Gerics can attest that
watchable often equals more enjoyable to play. I also like
the penalty for a travel and the 7 second stall count, very
much. I know not everyone will, but here is at least one
vote of support. I understand the field widening, but (yes
Toad) I am concerned that it might make offense too easy.
And timing games... I get it, the timecap system currently
is too complicated, but it creates run-out-the-clock
scenarios... which changes the strategy, I guess, but I
could see it not ruining the game completely.
Definitely go to Sarasota, "wang" is right. It'd be great
publicity, and great networking for you. Get some face time
with the base, let us know who you are. I look forward to
seeing this league flourish, and I hope all the top talent
out there will throw their weight behind it and push to make
it happen. We all already stump the sport, if you give us a
venue and a good product we can all continue to do so.
I am still all in favor of a prominent spokesperson...
someone who can bridge the gap between USAU and AUDL. Best
of luck, keep on trucking.
-Ari
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
> ...Considering I've been playing ultimate for 10 years
> and have been paid approximately (complete wild ass guess)
> -$5,000 a year for it ...
You've "been paid ~$5k/year"?
You mean you've PAID/SPENT ~$5k/yr, right?
..Isn't proof reading before posting wonderful? ... I wish
more folks did it.
poaches
>
> You've "been paid ~$5k/year"?
>
> You mean you've PAID/SPENT ~$5k/yr, right?
>
saying he's paid 5k a year.
adam.tinker
"-$5,000 a year". In other words, he's been paid negative
$5,000 per year, or in other words still, he's spent $5,000
per year.
~ ≠ - Q.E.D.
Alex Boots
Stephen
Are there tryouts? invitations? Do I have to live in one of
those not-so-cool places where you are having the teams base
out of? I'm living down in florida and curious how I can
finally become a pro athlete. I got the skills to pay the
bills and looking to showcase them. Seriously, I like many
others are interested in how the teams are going to be
formed. Throw us a bone here.
Stephen Poulos
Josh Moore
in the cities where the teams are located. Everybody has an
open invitation to tryout for any team. Please feel free to
reach out to any of our teams for further details or contact
me and we can discuss the best way to proceed. If there are
top players that are not in the region but are open to
travelling/relocating for the Summer, I can share your
information with our owners who may be interested in
compensating you to do so. Additionally, we will have teams
in Florida in the near future, so if this is not something
possible now, we hope everybody can be involved soon.
ultimate7
for "choosing" owners based on their ability to invest, really?
And for setting up rules to make the sport watchable, of course that
is what any league would have to do if they have any hope for
success.
J Mac
> criticizing him
> for "choosing" owners based on their ability to invest,
> really?
> And for setting up rules to make the sport watchable, of
> course that
> is what any league would have to do if they have any
> hope for
> success.
seriously? Are you just confused about how question marks
work?
Getting idiots with money is not sufficient for running an
ultimate team. As they say, a fool and his money are soon
parted. If the owners understand the sport then they will
stand a much better chance of making it back, so yes, more
than just the ability to invest is important.
Along the same vein, if he doesn't know the sport and hasn't
extensively tested the new rules then no one can know if
they make the sport "watchable." If you have evidence that
his rules make it watchable, please let us in on the secret.
Otherwise, STFU.
j mac
mvuong
with money for buying into sports he never played. Same with
Mark Cuban. Man those never worked out.
I think surrounding yourself with good people is probably
more important here. If we had to limit our franchises to
those that have played and completely understand the sport,
how many franchises could we really start up? Let the people
who want to invest invest, and let them back up their
investment by bringing in good people to support them. If
they don't do that, that is their own damn fault and they
deserve to fail.
paul
owners to make MONEY. Thus the primary qualification for
OWNERS is to have MONEY and business sense.
The game has to make money just because it is entertaining
on it's own. Anything less is unsustainable and the league
will fold. The game must appeal to enough people to make
money, and owners will make sure that happens. If they need
to put a pinball machine and a jeopardy lighting round in
the game, they will, and the investors should demand no
less.
However, the talent pool is not going to play if there's a a
survivor puzzle for overtime. They can't change the game
too much, or all the trained players (that play in college
and on club teams) won't play, since they are going to be
playing for nothing or close to it.
Personally speaking, I am very interested as to how much
they will modify the game in order to make it a saleable
product. I think the general premise of pro ultimate is not
bad, but I see three major challenges:
1) Didn't pick best talent pool to start. Sure there are
good players, but the first teams out the door should
include NYC/Boston/West Coast. May be a business decision
to minimize travel cost.
2) Need some serious rebranding and rules changes to make
the thing TV-friendly. (I.E. The game needs pauses every
15-20 minutes for commercials somehow)
3) Their audience, frisbee players, will HATE ANY RULES
CHANGES. People view the damn rules as religion. I bet
even minor stuff is going to be an issue for core audience.
My guess? Doesn't even get off the ground. USAU needs to
change the game to make it TV friendly first, so players are
forced to acclimate to new rules. Then a league might have
a chance.
Ari
Steve Wang
said it. Here's my point, more fleshed out: At least at
first, any AUDL franchise is going to have a small staff, so
the owner is going to have to be involved in a lot of
day-to-day operations; the Mark Cuban analogy is inapt.
However, at least some of these owners, and maybe most,
don't look like they're all that plugged in to where
ultimate is at these days. For instance, seeing how Bulb
hadn't heard of them, the Philly owners are not PADA people.
And yet, at the same time, it seems to me that it didn't
take all that much to become an owner of the AUDL. The Indy
owner is a salesman at a car dealership, the Detroit owner
is a personal trainer, one of the Philly owners is a high
school football coach. Surely there are plenty of people
who are both highly connected to the ultimate scene and can
match the current AUDL owners in financial resources. I
can't help thinking that the AUDL went out and found the
first willing investors they could find in some
semi-reasonable geographic distribution, and put little
emphasis on how much said investors knew the sport and its
culture, or how well the owners' locations would work at
drawing players and fans. An ownership search that took
those factors into account would have been a little harder,
but not that much, but it would have been more likely to
yield a quality product.
***
On the side issue of time limits, I think that's really
putting the cart before the horse. The AUDL isn't getting a
TV deal any time soon. Besides, the USAU has gotten TV
coverage to work OK even without a clock. If the quality of
the sport being played is foremost in the AUDL's mind, a
change of this magnitude should be experimented with on a
much wider basis than just some few Louisville league
players.
J Mac
> fool with money for buying into sports he never played.
> Same with Mark Cuban. Man those never worked out.
established league worth about 3 billion is totally the same
as the situation here. Because you clearly forgot or didn't
understand what I wrote, I'll repeat it again:
Quote:
> an ultimate team. As they say, a fool and his money are
> soon parted. If the owners understand the sport then they
> will stand a much better chance of making it back, so yes,
> more than just the ability to invest is important.
to be players? Also, for extra credit, try and qualify
either Kraft or Cuban as idiots or fools. I think I just
qualified you as both.
P.S. If any of the investors are prior billionaires with
proven success I will eat my shoe.
Noah
Ultimate networks, we are a bunch of stuck-up HATERS!
Has it not occurred to you all that Josh has been reaching
out to the Ultimate community for the past 8 months looking
for people to get involved who actually know the sport, and
we spat in his face, saying he was a nobody who knew nothing
and this league was a joke?
Everyone comes on RSD bashing this guy for trying to do
exactly what so many of us only hoped would be possible in
our lifetimes, let alone some time while we were still
playing the game. Quit fucking bitching about how he doesn't
have enough "good" ultimate players involved and go get
involved! Someone is finally taking the initiative so many
of us have wished someone would, and we just sit on rsd and
talk shit. Grow the fuck up. This could very well be the
beginning of a successful professional ultimate league if we
help it, and instead, we trash this guy for somehow managing
to find 8 people who don't play ultimate and yet still
believe this could be a worthwhile investment after we all
passed it up.
Obviously, the success of a venture like this depends on our
response and support, and I'm sick of all you bitches out
there hating on the AUDL from your fucking shitty jobs and
moms' basements because you didn't get an invite to try outs
yet, or because ONE owner made ONE mistake by not knowing
the date of Club Nationals, or because none of your friends
know who Josh Moore is. Is it so hard to believe that it
does NOT take a whole year's notice to get 12-15 good
players to join a team, or that you could join a team AFTER
their first combine, or that some random guy has enough
ambition to do something that we can't?
There are a shit ton of people and good players in the
Northeast, and it is clearly the most logical starting place
(less travel, bigger market, birthplace of the sport
itself). Obviously Josh had aspirations to start with more
teams (16 total) in some better cities (NY, DC, Boston,
Pitt, Baltimore, etc), but couldn't get it done. Gee, I
wonder why... He has been on RSD since February reaching out
to us for support, and rather than get involved we simply
talk more and more shit the more progress he makes. And now
that he found other people to help him we call him stupid
because they don't play elite ultimate or live in good
ultimate cities.
Why don't we quit being a bunch of elitist dickheads and use
the next 6 months to help this guy accomplish a goal that we
ALL want. That's plenty of time to get good players on good
teams with good rules and good refs. Really, we have
nothing to lose. Even if this guy loses everything and the
league fails, it is still a step in the right direction.
There is no way he could market something soo bad to enough
people that it would actually set "us" back at all.
We are Ultimate players, many of us have put good teams
together in less than 2 weeks, let alone 6 months, and if
these owners somehow find the means to actually offer any
amount of money to play Ultimate, I would do it and I'm sure
other "elite" players would too. Obviously, this league
needs us and our support as both players and fans. Let's
stop pretending that we don't all wish we could play
professional ultimate or that this guy has somehow insulted
us by not contacting our teams directly, and instead respond
to yet another plea from Josh Moore and the AUDL for our
support.
Quit hatin',
Noah Saul #24
Ring of Fire
p.s. Poulos, come try out for the Philly team with me, dawg.
Ryan
River City (Louisville) has a schedule posted. Looks like
games are on Saturdays and Sundays, April 14 through July
22, 2012 (assuming this is finalized).
PhiladelphiaUltimate
Thank You for your post and support. Actually, The
Philadelphia Spinners are making extreme efforts to reach
out to the Ultimate Community as much as possible. This
includes The Philadelphia Area Disc Alliance, The
Philadelphia Sports Network and The Philadelphia Sports and
Social Club. The clubs mention all has involvement with the
Ultimate community. I do understand that some of our success
is predicated upon how much we are involved with the
foundation that is before us and I do plan to align with
that platform to help develop my franchise. The more
knowledgeable people we have the better it will turn out.
Katrel Kelly
Philadelphia Spinners
http://www.philadelphiaspinners.com
Follow us on twitter: @phillyspinners
ultimate7
> Along the same vein, if he doesn't know the sport and hasn't
> extensively tested the new rules then no one can know if
> they make the sport "watchable." If you have evidence that
> his rules make it watchable, please let us in on the secret.
> Otherwise, STFU.
evidenece that his rules don't make it watchable or that these owners
lack sense please let us know that secret otherwise STFU. I'm trying
to give the benefit of the doubt that these people did some analysis
before they put their money up.
You guys are making a lot of critical assumptions without much
information as far as I can tell.
Bulb
> reach out to the Ultimate Community as much as possible.
> This includes The Philadelphia Area Disc Alliance, The
> Philadelphia Sports Network and The Philadelphia Sports
> and Social Club.
of any attempt on you or AUDL's part to reach out to us.
Nevertheless, you can email me at bulb at pada dot org with
any questions.
I don't know anything about The Philadelphia Sports Network,
but I can tell you right now that the Sport & Social Club
does not have many (if any) skilled players or even general
knowledge about the sport. Not saying you shouldn't reach
out to them, as they are a for-profit business, unlike PADA,
and so they might be more willing to invest money, but I
wouldn't expect much in terms of a talent pool.
nsaul wrote on Sun, 16 October 2011 15:07
> reaching out to the Ultimate community for the past 8
> months looking for people to get involved who actually
> know the sport, and we spat in his face, saying he was a
> nobody who knew nothing and this league was a joke?
between Josh and the RSD community has gone like this:
Josh: Guys, we are starting a pro Ultimate league, it's
gonna be awesome. Just need some investors.
RSD: That sounds sweet, but people have tried doing crazy
experiments with Ultimate leagues before, and most of them
have failed miserably. Can you give us some specific
reasons why your model will succeed where others have
failed?
Josh: Just trust me, it'll work, all we need are investors.
RSD: Hmm... pass.
ultimate7 wrote on Sun, 16 October 2011 15:33
> people did some analysis before they put their money up.
investments? Can't wait until we see the RSD thread titled
"Occupy AUDL."
ultimate7 wrote on Sun, 16 October 2011 15:33
> without much information as far as I can tell.
Making assumptions, critical or otherwise, is all we have
been able to do, aside from giving away our money willy
nilly.
J Mac
> heard of any attempt on you or AUDL's part to reach out to
> us. Nevertheless, you can email me at bulb at pada dot
> org with any questions.
PhiladelphiaUltimate
Thanks for reaching out, I actually sent a email to a woman
name Majorie and I believe she is the Executive Director. I
am unsure If she has received it in her spam folder instead
of inbox, but I most definitely reached out.
Bulb, I look forward to connecting with you to find a mutual
benefit in the sport of Ultimate. I am not afraid to admit
that I am lacking in the overall knowledge of how to Build a
successful ultimate team and know I cannot do this alone.
With your support along with the AUDL's I'm sure we can
create something great. Whatever it takes to make a this
situation work the "Right Way" I am open to any suggestions
you may have.
Thank you for the information in regards to the Philadelphia
Sports and Social Club. I came across the club in my time a
research and thought maybe it would be a good idea to reach
out to them. Now that I have your contact information I will
be getting in touch with you personally.
J Mac
disconcerting to know that your definition of "extreme
efforts" is a single email sent to a single person.
paul
I don't think that thinking about TV now is a bad idea. If
I were an owner, I would look at all the failed leagues and
say, there better be some great upside (I.E. a financial
homerun scenario), since it is most likely that this league
is going to fail Like MLU and that Jose Cuervo stuff in the
70's. I would want strategic assurance from the league that
the investment has some really high reward potential for
most likely losing my money. This includes prepping the
game for high market penetration (TV) in the future.
On another note, if you think you are going to sell ANY
league to existing players primarily, I have always strongly
believed that it's a losing proposition. Players CANNOT be
the primary audience. They would rather go play themselves
than watch, esp. if it's some "league players from
louisville" (not my quote). Remember that ultimate in it's
current form is almost like a destination travel hobby for
middle class people. You get a team of friends, and travel
to fun tournament events - would you rather GO to
potlatch/mixed regionals, or WATCH men's regionals on your
couch? That preference really scuttles selling the game to
players.
Thus, any league success also hinges on needing to attract
non-ultimate players to come watch. The non-player owners
will understand this market need over needing to protect any
"sanctity of the game" issues. They will focus on making
the highest entertainment value product, which is what the
league needs.
PhiladelphiaUltimate
J Mac
effort as you deem reasonable.
PhiladelphiaUltimate
I am not mad at you man! All I am trying to do is reach out
and do it the right way by getting some solid people to help
push this correctly. Eventhough the feedback on here isn't
what everyone wanted to be, I respect everyone's opinions no
matter how bad it may be. Jeremy with all due respect, I
have never lied about contacting them, I just wanted to let
you know that. I am unsure exactly what role you play in
Ultimate but if you have any advice, suggestions that may be
helpful, I invite you to send me a email if you have the
time. Kkelly at Philadelphiaspinners.com
Thanks Bro