2009 Ultimate History Website
Joe Seidler
from Masters, Mixed and Women's:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results
In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team in history.
Next year they could do it. And Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area
continue to pull away from the pack as the two most successful cities
in women's Ultimate:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results/teamcitystatswomen.html
National Champion rosters and the Individual Special Accomplishments
will be updated soon on the website.
Joe Seidler
> The Ultimate History website has been updated with Nationals results
> from Masters, Mixed and Women's:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results
>
> In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team in history.
> Next year they could do it. And Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area
> continue to pull away from the pack as the two most successful cities
>
> National Champion rosters and the Individual Special Accomplishments
> will be updated soon on the website.
The team/city stats for the Open division have been updated also. No
big changes in the team stats, but in the city stats, the San
Francisco Bay Area has moved ahead of Santa Barbara for the 2nd most
winningest city. Boston remains in the top spot:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results/teamcitystats.html
Joe Seidler
The National Champion rosters document has been updated... please let
me know if anyone sees an error or misspelling:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational
Joe Seidler
The Ultimate History "Individual Special Accomplishments" has been
updated. Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions after
this year's Nationals results are taken into account:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/specialaccomplishments
jacob
you:
1) (Once again) Make a special "double-crown" category for players who
have won both upa college and upa open/women's nationals. These are
the two toughest divisions to win. I think there are fewer than 75
people total who have this double crown. You can add Josh Zipperstein
(Brown) after Chain's win.
2) Consider adding more points for winning nationals in your city-
power-rankings. Are you really OK with having the Bay Area open teams
ranked as "more winning" than New York? I don't think even the Flying
Circus, Tsunami, Double Happiness, Jam or Revolver guys would be on
board with this.
moremail...@yahoo.com
> 2) Consider adding more points for winning nationals in your city-
> power-rankings. Are you really OK with having the Bay Area open teams
> ranked as "more winning" than New York? I don't think even the Flying
> Circus, Tsunami, Double Happiness, Jam or Revolver guys would be on
> board with this.
I disagree. The point of this chart is to highlight cities that have
consistently put forth contenders. NYNY was the most dominant team
ever but NYC teams have not advanced to the Final Four as consistently
as Bay Area teams over the years. 12 times versus 17 times, clearly
the Bay Area has been in the hunt more often.
jacob
If your point is really clear, you don't need to preface it with words
like "clearly."
Also, I did not contest that the Bay Area teams have been "in the hunt
more often." What I suggested was that being "in the hunt" be valued
less than actually catching the prey (Joe Seidler's formula already
does this, just not the same extent that I am lazily recommending
after Joe has done all the groundwork).
"The point of this chart is to highlight cities that have consistently
put forth contenders."
If this were the only point of the chart, then Joe would have given
the same number of ranking points to teams who lost in semifinals as
he did those who won finals. He did not.
bt
> updated. Please let me know if you see any errors or omissions after
> this year's Nationals results are taken into account:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/specialaccomplishments
You can bump Walter V. up to 9 championships - he won masters this
year with Troubled Past.
bt
Joe Seidler
What am I missing?
UPA Club Open NY '87,'89-'93; UPA Club Masters KAVU '04 & Troubled
Past ‘09
Wes Chao
Joe, this is great stuff, really fun to read through. Thanks for your
efforts in tracking it all.
One minor correction, depending on how you intended the accomplishment
to be phrased: Steve Finn won 4 Nationals in a row, with each team
being different from the last (Shazam-Brass Monkey-Throwbacks-Shazam
Returns). Not sure if you intended the accomplishment to be total
different teams (3), or total team changes (4).
Joe Seidler
When I emailed with Steve, he seemed to think Shazam and Shazam
Returns were pretty much the same team, and I was thinking the
uniqueness was that it was with different teams. But you have a point
about "different team from previous year."
Does anyone else have an opinion about this or other things I should
include?
Pasquale Anthony Leonardo
>
> When I emailed with Steve, he seemed to think Shazam and Shazam
> Returns were pretty much the same team, and I was thinking the
> uniqueness was that it was with different teams. But you have a point
> about "different team from previous year."
>
> Does anyone else have an opinion about this or other things I should
> include?
I am almost positive steve mentioned to me that those two Shazam teams
only had 2-3 of the same players and that they were quite different.
Bil would know...
TL
Pasquale Anthony Leonardo
>
> In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team in history.
Look, i know that Godiva had a different look when Peg, Molly and
Teens got on board (and can someone PLEASE explain to me why they are
not nominees for the Hall of Fame this year? i swear its been over 5
years) but how is this "generation" thing calculated?
I would read up some of what I wrote that probably explains it, but I
am too lazy, so maybe you can just tell me.
another point would be that -- i would say that Fury has similarly
gone through a "generation." I always thought that when JD retired
that was an end of a generation for women's bay area ultimate
(although I noticed Sprout on the roster this year).
But i am surely not the expert here, maybe someone can pipe up and say
whether Fury went through a "generation" type thing in 02 or 03 or
something...
Parinella
<mistermalcont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> > updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> > generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team in history.
>
> Look, i know that Godiva had a different look when Peg, Molly and
> Teens got on board (and can someone PLEASE explain to me why they are
> not nominees for the Hall of Fame this year? i swear its been over 5
> years) but how is this "generation" thing calculated?
>
(Teens got elected in 2007, Molly isn't old enough best I can tell
(since "retirement" in ultimate is a squishy concept, eligibility is
age-based and it's 41 for women this year), and there are a lot of
good candidates out there and only one made it to the finals this
year.)
Pasquale Anthony Leonardo
OK, some I'm half-idiot for not remembering Teens is in but half-
savant for pointing out that Peg Hollinger, one of the winningest
players ever and a mastermind behind two dynasties, is not nominated.
She's got to be over 41, i think she won a title at that age
Joe Seidler
The team "generation" idea is my attempt to be able to compare teams
against other teams. For instance, in the Open Division, if you want
to compare the Condors to other teams, does it make sense to calculate
their Nationals results going back to 1976 when they started using the
name Condors? I don't think so. I want to be able to compare each team
against others by trying to classify a team as having mostly the same
roster. So I divided the Condors into 2 generations. Ditto for Lady
Godiva. And Fury will also be divided into 2 generations soon given
they are still using the same name.
NYNY and DoG made this easy as they stopped winning after 8 years or
so... as do most great teams.
Note: This generation thing would all go away if teams would stop
winning over such a long period ;)
jacob
"generation" type thing in 02 or 03 or something..."
I think Fury 2003 had only a few players from their 1999 team and only
a few players in 2009 from their 2003 team, so this is arguably 3
different generations of Fury. If you choose to count this as two
generations, drawing the line at 2002, the "second" generation still
has 4 finals wins, one finals loss, and one loss in semis.
Joe Seidler
> from Masters, Mixed and Women's:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results
>
> In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team inhistory.
> Next year they could do it. And Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area
> continue to pull away from the pack as the two most successful cities
>
> National Champion rosters and the Individual Special Accomplishments
> will be updated soon on thewebsite.
The Ultimate History website has been updated to include a photo
gallery of teams since 1970:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamlinks
Please send me any missing National or World Championship team photos.
[P.S. If you send me your team website link, I will add it to the
Ultimate History website.]
bil
> I am almost positive steve mentioned to me that those two Shazam teams
> only had 2-3 of the same players and that they were quite different.
> Bil would know...
You guys are like mother and father bear and the truth is baby bear.
There were only 8 (?!) holdovers, but most of them were starters or
saw significant playing time on both teams. So they are somewhat
similar.
I look at those two rosters and I think that the second team would
have crushed the first, perhaps telling us that mixed is improving.
With that in mind, I guess you could call them the same team, with the
normal types of improvements that you would see over 4 years.
Barely related: I like the Jimmy Chu - Chase SB race to get the most
championships in different divisions.
Joe Seidler
> On Nov 1, 10:21 am, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> > TheUltimateHistorywebsitehas been updated with Nationals results
> > from Masters, Mixed and Women's:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results
>
> > In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> > updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> > generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team inhistory.
> > Next year they could do it. And Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area
> > continue to pull away from the pack as the two most successful cities
> > in women'sUltimate:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results/teamcitystat...
>
> > National Champion rosters and the Individual Special Accomplishments
> > will be updated soon on thewebsite.
>
> gallery of teams since 1970:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamlinks
>
> Please send me any missing National or World Championship team photos.
>
I am beginning to add Ultimate History photo galleries to the website
going back many decades including photos and articles of years gone
bye:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/extras
Joe Seidler
If anyone has any updates to the list of longest running tournaments,
please let me know:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/tournaments/tournaments.html
Joe Seidler
> from Masters, Mixed and Women's:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/championsnational/results
>
> In the Women's division, the team and city stats have also been
> updated. Fury is on the doorstep of overtaking Lady Godiva (1995-2002
> generation team) for 1st place of the best women's team inhistory.
> Next year they could do it. And Boston and the San Francisco Bay Area
> continue to pull away from the pack as the two most successful cities
>
> National Champion rosters and the Individual Special Accomplishments
> will be updated soon on thewebsite.
I have highlighted all of the web photo galleries on the Ultimate
History website:
www.ultimatehistory.com
cestcri
Hi Joe,
just saw this impressive list for the first time... maybe you want to
add the Winter Trophy: http://united-states.ffindr.com/en/blog/2009/11/11/featured-tournament-winter-trophy
Apparently not the oldest running Ultimate tourney, but probably the
oldest Indoor tourney!?
Cheers,
Christian
joeseidler
planning on expanding the Ultimate History website next year
to include international. Thanks for the link.
--
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