who gets my/your vote
ulticritic
running with a brief explination of their platform (my interpretation
of it anyways) along with some comments and questions for them. So,
if you dont respond dont expect my vote......in fact you shouldnt even
be running unless you read rsd regularly. This is the pulse of whats
happening in the ultimate world and if you cant mingle with the, how
jim says, "unwashed masses" then dont try and represent us.
robin davies - summerleague extrodenaire, supports youth and college
comp,goaltimate advocate, in favor of more media and sponsorship
efforts.
dont know about that whole goaltimate thing.....speaking of which,
have you tried dischoops? whats your take on that sport. But hey, as
someone that is media and sponsorship oriented......what do you think
ultimate could do to help maximize entertainment value and make a real
impact on the media.....and in order to maximize sponsorship
opportunities how would you better market ultimate as a comodity?
------------------------------------------------------
colby gilman - observer oriented, involved in ult revolution pro grass
roots and pro college ult.
well dont get to high on youself with the ult rev thing......while it
was a valiant effort it could have been streamlined, included more
people and cost the upa membership much less. As frank said.....how
is it even a revolution when those on the inside are pretty much good
with the status quoe.......anyways, you say you are a big advocate of
college ultimate......so what are you gonna do as a upa board member
to push for ncaa varsity sport status? and if part of achieving that
goal means getting refs into the comp will you still support that
transition?
----------------------------------------------------------
charlie mullin - old school, pick-up and jr advocate, interestes in
working on refering (refs???) and rule refinments
that a pretty polarized interest area. i really dont get how the upa
can do anything to support pick up but......you do make a reference to
refering......do you mean in the way observers are refered to? if so
whats your stance on changing observers names to somthing that is more
accurately descriptive,,,,like referees?....or even officials.....and
putting them into striped shirts already?
-------------------------------------------------------
josh seamon - new school, youth and womens oriented, multi tasker, on
line activist
well i got to say that you are my front runner. you already have put
youself with us unwashed masses, you are an ulticritic fan, and your
last name is the name of my college ultimate team. i got to say i'm
not a big fan of the mixed div thing though. so heres your
question.....how would you reach out to get the best/most accurate
needs and wants assestment of the upa membership at large in the most
efficient, effective and cost effective manner........and what
critisisms do you have about how the ult rev was implamented (dont be
a company man now)?
------------------------------------------------------------
peri kursham - rules and observer oriented, strategic planning
initiative advocate
too many big words/phrases in your platform......those 3 things in the
strategic planning initiative (of which, what the hell is that to
begin with) i cant even remember what they were. one
word.....simplify. anyway, you really seem to florish your input with
rules and observers......so, what were your feelings on the rules and
rules process of the MLU comp during potlatch in 06 and have you ever
had a chance to play, witness or experiment with refs in ulty.......if
not, why......and whats you overall stance on refs?
------------------------------------------------------------
bunny bartram - nw multitasker, youth coach, td extrordenair, observer
oriented, play through the ult rev???
didnt understand that last thing about playing through the ult
rev......still dont understand how it was a revolution......if
anything a evolution......but not a revolution. got to hand it to you
though, the nw is definitely (specifically seattle) the present hot
bed of ulty....props to you for that. so one question......what are
your feelings about a semi pro type singular game league established
in the nw (much like the major league lax genesis) with all the bells
and whistles of other professional fan friendly sports.......would you
consider being part of such an endeavor?
--------------------------------------
kyle c. - growth/ grass roots oriented
not much to say but since you are so grass roots oriented how would
you go about improving the ultimate experience at the sectional lelel
and how do you get input from the silent majority on how they would
want things to be run by the upa?
----------------------------------------------------
lara hoffman - pro dames/ womens, youth advocate, budget and project
management oriented
first off whats with the dames terminology,,,,and why mention your
team name (kill your lanlord)...... as a landlord i definitely take
offense to that.........i mean, i might use the words bitch and fag,
but i dont say to kill em. anyway as a lawyer what is the importance,
to you, of the upa to establish a risk management
program.....and.....how would the notion of promoting and propegating
a division of comp in which slower, smaller and weaker females are
competing on the same field as their faster, bigger and stronger male
counterparts in a sport where, due to the nature of the game,
collisions are frequent AND there is already, without unproportioned
competitors, an inherant danger to the game in which the upa
acknowledges the risk of death fit into that plan? and what could/
would be the legal ramifications to the upa if a female were to die
from a colision with a man if the family of the diseased wanted to
pursue it to the full extent of the law?
------------------------------------------
well there you got it......remember, lots more people tune into rsd
than you might think.....so if you are one of these canidates that
dosent you better hope a pal clues you in about this
thread.........the kind of thing that josh, if elected, will be all
over. and, canidates, if you really want to make an impression you
will answer ALL the questions.....not just the ones put forth to you.
and who knows, there may be others out there that have questions of
there own to put forth to you. somthing tells me this is gonna be a
long thread........any predictions on the over/under........i'd say 75.
Head Beagle
> would be the legal ramifications to the upa if a female were to die
> from a colision with a man if the family of the diseased wanted to
> pursue it to the full extent of the law?
>
It probably depends on what disease the person was suffering from.
faddy
leber, you'd get my vote.
Ajax
Josh Seamon does
http://www.claremont.edu/org/braineat/site_98/roster.htm
the cat is out of the bag; the man eats brains.
Weston
Claremont #87
BladingSawBladeWithBladesComingOutOfItAndStuff
He is inspired, realistic, accomplished, selfless, and is responsible
for many folks' love of the game.
First touched by the game in 1993 when Worlds was in his hometown of
Madison, Wisconsin, Robin has been tirelessly working to build
Madison's ultimate scene, the Madison Ultimate Frisbee Association
(www.mufa.org), youth ultimate, league ultimate, and competitive
ultimate for nearly 15 years. He has the whole range of interfaces
with the game and its many aspects.
With Ultimate facing a whole new leap of growth and change, Robin has
the grounded and inspired vision necessary to help guide our
organization's future.
Robin Davies for UPA board.
ulticritic
<chrislimb...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> Robin Davies is pretty much a money candidate for UPA board.
well tell him to chime in then. The fact that noone besides josh is
actually using rsd as a medium to promote themselves is kind of stupid
to me.
ulticritic
damn i guess noone wants my meisly little vote
Joe Buck
> damn i guess noone wants my meisly little vote
Part of the reason why there is not this instant democracy in the UPA
is because people are still recovering from Toad's brutal typing. I
thought an interesting comment was made when somebody said to me, I
heard somebody say, where's Mandela? Well, Mandela is dead, because
Toad killed all the Mandelas. He was a lunkhead that divided people up
and split families, and people are recovering from this. So there's a
psychological recovery that is taking place. And it's hard work for
them. And I understand it's hard work for them. Having said that, I'm
not going the give them a pass when it comes to the UPA's
reconciliation efforts.
I also said in my introductory note, Sectionals will drive Nationals.
And I believe that. I believe that as more reconciliation takes place
at the local level you'll see a more responsive UPA.
robindavies
> so everybody is campaigning for the board. Here are the people
> running with a brief explination of their platform (my interpretation
> of it anyways) along with some comments and questions for them. So,
> if you dont respond dont expect my vote......in fact you shouldnt even
> be running unless you read rsd regularly. This is the pulse of whats
> happening in the ultimate world and if you cant mingle with the, how
> jim says, "unwashed masses" then dont try and represent us.
>
TRAVEL! RSD may be the voice of the unwashed masses, but the masses by
definition are everywhere. Rec.sport.disc is one loud, fast and loose
voice of the disc community, but to consider this "forum" a decent
representation of the Ultimate community and UPA voting base is just
plain wrong. For the record I've been reading and posting to rsd since
April of 1994. No match for your #2 poster status ulticritic, but I've
shared my two cents here and there. We used to even talk about golf
and freestyle on here, not just Canadian Bacon, cheating Madcows and
Frankie's Pizza. As the Ultimate Revolution (not really a Revolution
me thinks, the UPA should have done a strategic plan on what to name
their strategic plan) there are way more people playing Ultimate than
read RSD, join the UPA or MUFA.
PS- I really miss Yungai......
Sure I'll answer your questions.....
>
> dont know about that whole goaltimate thing.....speaking of which,
> have you tried dischoops? whats your take on that sport.
I think Goaltimate is a perfect condensing of Ultimate's short game.
Yes, the hucks and deep chases are gone, but the variety of throws,
particularly upside down stuff, physical nature and lack of downtime
between points make Goaltimate a super spectator sport. Obviously the
UPA's primary drive should be Ultimate, but Goaltimate is taking off
and should be under the umbrella of the UPA. When I spoke with Will
Deaver at the Organizers conference this spring he said that the UPA
was passing on Goaltimate and Beach Ultimate. I was surprised as I see
them both as great options for Ultimate players and fans alike. Does
the governing body of volleyball oversee the beach game? If not, I bet
they wish they did.
Dischoops really doesn't deserve the space in letters that we giving
it here. If DH ever gets beyond Franks backyard, then I'll give it a
shot.
> But hey, as
> someone that is media and sponsorship oriented......what do you think
> ultimate could do to help maximize entertainment value and make a real
> impact on the media
Less time between points, observers to move the contested big games
along, better announcers, higher production values in our media (no
offense UTV-Rob). What did it take to get snowskating in the X-Games?
Honestly, how many people compete/recreate in that sport? When can I
join the RedBull Goaltimate team?
>.....and in order to maximize sponsorship
> opportunities how would you better market ultimate as a comodity?
Every one of us spends money on gear, travel, housing and provisions
for our sport. Patagonia has seen this. Does Nike know how passionate
Ultimate players are about their cleats? When I race Cyclocross (a
real fringe sport - under governance of the International Cycling
Federation btw) there are bike manufacturers, bike part manufacturers,
bike shops, food, drink (sport and alcohol) and clothing companies at
the race as both sponsors and representatives. There is prize money.
Cyclocross?!? Why can't Ultimate be as opportunist? I've seen some
possibilities here in Madison; health care providers have been
interested, massage therapists, Whole Foods, REI. Our main league
sponsor (a local brew pub with multiple locations) has clearly seen
the advantages of being associated with Ultimate. No need to market
Ultimate as a commodity. We are the commodity. We are all consumers.
How much have each of us spent on Nalgene water bottles? When can I
get Hodag socks? We MUFA/UPA didn't have to get a Madison Middle
school afterschool Ultimate program started. The game started itself.
I have since assisted and those kids went nuts for my Discraft 175s.
Doode you missed this in my candidate statement:
"Tournament location seems to be a real problem. Accessibility should
be the number one criteria for hosting."
That fact the "Tulsafied" now exists in our lexicon shows you how
important location is to UPA competitors. The Central is going to feel
the pain of this blunder for a while. Yes we are notorious whiners,
but failing to fill all divisions across the board is an
embarrassment.
> .......any predictions on the over/under........i'd say 75.
Voting closes at the end of the month.... my money is on 13..... Bunny
where''s your spiel.....?
spet...@wilmingtongi.com
Hopefully one of these newly elected board members can work to add
something to the UPA series rules about tournament venues. As
mentioned in some other threads, Sectionals and Regionals should be
huge opportunities to showcase the sport in addition to allowing the
participants to experience a first class event. How is it that for
typically $400 or less per team people are able to run top notch
tournaments with all the amenities you could ask for including, plush
grass, lined fields, water at each field, info tents, food tents,
etc... but several Regionals are on terrible fields with very few
perks ? There has to be some definable standard for these events.
Jay Schulkin
I gotta say, (as a voter) I'm about as interested in the UPA spending
time and my money on Goaltimate as I bet the NBA is in representing
Slam Ball.
I like the sponsorship angle though.
Elizabeth D Murray
1192041945.8...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com, "robindavies"
<robin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I spoke with Will Deaver at the Organizers conference this spring he said
> that the UPA was passing on Goaltimate and Beach Ultimate. I was surprised as
> I see them both as great options for Ultimate players and fans alike.
Will Deaver is the UPA Championship Director- so when he says "passing" he
can only mean as a series events. The UPA does have interests in Goaltimate
and Beach Ultimate- including sanctioning, innovation grants and tournament
& pickup listings to name a few. There are lots of other types of Ultimate
that are not included in any UPA series event- Women's Masters and College
Mixed for example, but they still receive support from the UPA.
:Elizabeth
Frank Huguenard
>
> Dischoops really doesn't deserve the space in letters that we giving
> it here.
The is rec.sport.disc. Todd posed a legitimate question and your response
speaks volumes about the bias that permeates this culture and the people who
run it.
> If DH ever gets beyond Franks backyard, then I'll give it a
> shot.
Robin, whoever you are, dischoops calls into question just about every facet
of Ultimate. As a prospective board member, do you not feel it is your
responsibility to give DH proper peer review?
Why is it illegal to swat a disc out of the throwers hand? Are you sure?
Wouldn't you want to find out 'first hand' rather than guess or theorize?
The result has proven to be exactly the opposite of what many expect.
There are over 30 significant rules changes between DH and ultimate and the
end result is that the more DH I played, the more I came to realize just how
inadequate and misguided the rules for Ultimate are.
The game has been played by more than a couple of groups in the bay area
without me around (Santa Cruz college team and a group in Campbell) that I
know of.
So, are you going to suck it up and keep your word? The game has clearly
spread beyond my backyard.
Joe's Brother
> without me around (Santa Cruz college team and a group in Campbell) that I
> know of.
Growing at a steady rate of one new backyard per year! Why worry
about the UPA, Frank? You might want to create the DHPA before your
sport starts experiencing growth problems of its own.
ulticritic
may be the voice of the unwashed masses, but the masses by
> definition are everywhere. Rec.sport.disc is one loud, fast and loose
> voice of the disc community, but to consider this "forum" a decent
> representation of the Ultimate community and UPA voting base is just
> plain wrong.
that "masses" term was presented by jim P.I just barrowed it.....but i
think that more people read it but just dont get into the forum side
of it than you might think. And i'd say it easily the most visited
ultimate related web site out there hands down.
-------------------------------------------------------------
> April of 1994. No match for your #2 poster status ulticritic,
who would be #1
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Frankie's Pizza. As the Ultimate Revolution (not really a
Revolution
> me thinks, the UPA should have done a strategic plan on what to name
> their strategic plan)
giddy up to that (you are starting to surpass josh as my front runner)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > But hey, as
> > someone that is media and sponsorship oriented......what do you think
> > ultimate could do to help maximize entertainment value and make a real
> > impact on the media
>
> Less time between points, observers to move the contested big games
> along, better announcers, higher production values in our media (no
> offense UTV-Rob). What did it take to get snowskating in the X-Games?
> Honestly, how many people compete/recreate in that sport? When can I
> join the RedBull Goaltimate team?
how about refs......whats your stance there? Ever experienced them in
ulty? They do seem to make the game more entertaining.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >.....and in order to maximize sponsorship
> > opportunities how would you better market ultimate as a comodity?
>
> Every one of us spends money on gear, travel, housing and provisions
> for our sport. Patagonia has seen this. Does Nike know how passionate
> Ultimate players are about their cleats? When I race Cyclocross (a
> real fringe sport - under governance of the International Cycling
> Federation btw) there are bike manufacturers, bike part manufacturers,
> bike shops, food, drink (sport and alcohol) and clothing companies at
> the race as both sponsors and representatives. There is prize money.
> Cyclocross?!? Why can't Ultimate be as opportunist?
By opportunist i gather you mean to "sell out" (but not in a bad
way). wouldnt adding refs help the sport to be a better sale?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've seen some
> possibilities here in Madison; health care providers have been
> interested, massage therapists, Whole Foods, REI. Our main league
> sponsor (a local brew pub with multiple locations) has clearly seen
> the advantages of being associated with Ultimate. No need to market
> Ultimate as a commodity. We are the commodity. We are all consumers.
yes but ultimate as a form of sports entertainment IS a
comodity.......sports entertainment in general IS a comodity. My
feeling is that unless there are huge #'s in the form of participants
that can consume goods no big name sponsor will attatch itself to
ultimate because the end product (the sports presentation) is sub par
and weak.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How much have each of us spent on Nalgene water bottles? When can I
> get Hodag socks? We MUFA/UPA didn't have to get a Madison Middle
> school afterschool Ultimate program started. The game started itself.
> I have since assisted and those kids went nuts for my Discraft 175s.
well it seems that ultimate just dosent organically spread as it does
in madison.......probably because ther are other alternate activities
that are better programed and marketed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Doode you missed this in my candidate statement:
> "Tournament location seems to be a real problem. Accessibility should
> be the number one criteria for hosting."
just didnt think it was that important. I guess back in the day the
tourny did revolve. Dont know why its stuck in "off the beaten path"
sarasota every year. Seems to me the real issue there would be to
change the date so that it would be more condusive to be hosted by
northern climate teams.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > .......any predictions on the over/under........i'd say 75.
>
> Voting closes at the end of the month.... my money is on 13..... Bunny
> where''s your spiel.....?
put me down for a c-note on the over then (your over that is). also,
dont forget about addressing the other questions.
Frank Huguenard
Frank's backyard, he would play the game.
Robin, it's time for you to step up to the plate and keep your commitment.
"Joe's Brother" <hot...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192097428.3...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
JosephD...@gmail.com
>the beach game? If not, I bet they wish they did.
..ummm I bet they don't .... 'cause it's a different sport.
Joey
Arizona 27
ulticritic
> Hopefully one of these newly elected board members can work to add
> something to the UPA series rules about tournament venues. As
> mentioned in some other threads, Sectionals and Regionals should be
> huge opportunities to showcase the sport in addition to allowing the
> participants to experience a first class event. How is it that for
> typically $400 or less per team people are able to run top notch
> tournaments with all the amenities you could ask for including, plush
> grass, lined fields, water at each field, info tents, food tents,
> etc... but several Regionals are on terrible fields with very few
> perks ? There has to be some definable standard for these events
standards ARE the key.....but there has to be a standard set for the
actual presentation aspect of the game......at least in the playoffs
and finals.....although it would be better to have those same
facilitations in all games for the sake of continuity and
consistancy. As has been said, the sport is not really all that
watchable, but could become so with the incorporation if obvious audio
and visual enhancements.
Handy
Do you "bet they don't?" Cause I bet with a search that takes under 8
seconds you'd find this: http://www.usavolleyball.org/ Notice
the "Beach" tab.
Research: crazy, but often effective.
-Handy-
Frank Huguenard
People go to live NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. games and don't get any (well, there
is some multimedia at the venues) of the bells and whistles that they get on
TV.
There is a lot more to it Todd than dressing it up nice. The game is
seriously lacking in many areas.
ulticritic
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:.
> No.
>
> People go to live NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. games and don't get any (well, there
> is some multimedia at the venues) of the bells and whistles that they get on
> TV.
how do you figure that as there are about 4 huge tv's at the stadiums
where said games are played.........and some nice eye candy too, i
must add........and that you dont get on tv.
>
> There is a lot more to it Todd than dressing it up nice.
well thats the first primary step to appealing to the masses, or even
just some joe public that might be at the park the same day one of
these random sectional ultimate events might be going on. And i'm
just talking about getting it to the leve of say a highschool football
game anyways.....not nba,nfl etc
The game is
> seriously lacking in many areas.
well what are they.....please share
Josh
> efficient, effective and cost effective manner
On my own I would just flat out talk to as many people as possible. I
do love to play more than just about anything, but pushing the sport
further has started taking over as my primary Ultimate-related drive.
At the moment about 95% of what I do in the Ultimate world is geared
towards getting other people to play, and the other 5% is related to
me getting on the field. So, as simple as it sounds, my first move
towards achieving a more accurate pictures of the needs and wants of
the UPA membership would be to talk up a storm. I'm already attending
25-30 Ultimate related events a year, so I already have ample
opportunity to connect with the US Ultimate community at large. I'm
one of those people that likes to strike up conversations with random
people I'm sitting next to on airplanes -- and those conversations
aren't usually about Ultimate. You should see how excited I get when I
talk about Ultimate in person with another Ultimate person. ;)
I like the before mentioned idea of polling the UPA membership as
people join the UPA or renew their membership.
I would like to see polling stations set up at large events. I think
setting up events and asking people to come is great, but I'd like to
see the UPA take a more aggressive stance on gathering data. Have a
central polling tent at every Regional event and at Nationals. Have
people with clipboards moving around at the events. I guess it sounds
overly simplistic, but I think it could really work -- If someone came
up to me at an event and asked me some good questions about what my
opinions were about a slew of topics surrounding Ultimate, I'd be
thrilled.
Because the UPA serves such a diverse constituency I don't think one
method for gathering information is going to be THE way. I think the
UPA is going to need to continue gathering information in as many ways
as possible.
Another thing I've brought up before is the creation of a slick, well
maintained and moderated 'official' UPA forum. Yes, it's very nice to
have RSD, many various Ultimate news sites, and lots of great local
forums, but I want to see well formatted, public threads populated by
posts from people that work at the UPA and people on the Board. The
UPA already relies heavily on email so I don't think it would be too
much of a transition to moving some of the conversations they must
have every day to a robust online forum. Get several thousand active
posters into a UPA forum along with lots of other UPA members reading
what's going on... and viola!... you have a fantastic conduit for
collecting and disseminating (isn't it neat when I can use that
word? ;) ) information. Right now the UPA comunity, when online, is
fractured into many pieces. There are people that obsess over RSD.
There are people that read the blogs and nothing else. There are
people that kinda use their league's online forum. There are people
that don't know what a forum is. There are people that only use their
league's email list. I will like to see the UPA create a focal point
for every member's online attention. Once that's established I think
the UPA will be better connected to its constituency and therefore
much more in-tune with the needs and wants of the community.
> ........and what
> critisisms do you have about how the ult rev was implamented (dont be
> a company man now)?
Honestly that's a tough question for me to answer since I'm a big fan
of what's been accomplished and of what I am sure will be accomplished
in the coming months by the Ultimate Revolution. Lemme see...
I guess I would have liked to have seen the large summits based around
other Ultimate events (tournaments? conferences?) or expanded to
include other events in an effort to draw even more people in. I was
honestly disappointed in the number of people that attended each
summit -- I thought there would be more. That's really not much of a
criticism of the implementation since I don't really have any big
suggestions on how to draw more people in.
I'll have to think more on the question.... hrmmm.....
Frank Huguenard
Who are you more responsible to, the sport of Ultimate or the constituents?
Are you under the presumption that the sport is pretty much fine just the
way it is?
Do me a favor, go back to the video of the chick getting clobbered that was
posted two weeks ago (I don't have the link handy).
Forget about the video.
Read the ensuing threads.
That is your constituency.
The game of Ultimate belongs to everyone, not the UPA and certainly not UPA
members.
If you want to collect as many opinions as you can, read the comments on
that video page and that will give you a balanced perspective on the sport.
No Ultimate Revolution that the UPA can sponsor is going to change that.
The sport is seriously flawed in it's current incarnation.
Can you explain to me why double teaming is illegal?
"Josh" <jse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192156474.8...@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Josh
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> Who are you more responsible to, the sport of Ultimate or the constituents?
Right now I'm more responsible to the sport of Ultimate. If I was
elected to the UPA's Board of Directors that responsibility would
shift more to the 1) the constituents of the UPA and 2) everyone else
who plays Ultimate who isn't a member of the UPA.
> Are you under the presumption that the sport is pretty much fine just the
> way it is?
Assuming that I am, is there anything wrong with that? You want people
to respect your opinion that Ultimate is not fine the way it is -- Do
you respect the opinion of people that think that the sport is "pretty
much fine the way it is"? I don't think you can break people down into
two clear groups -- those who think Ultimate is fine and those that
don't. There are too many gray areas in between. I think Ultimate is
going strong and I like what it is and where it's headed. Does that
mean I think the rules, spirit, and direction of the sport are going
to stay static for now until the end of time? Hell no. Do I think
things are going to change gradually over time? Absolutely. With the
huge growth in participation in the sport over the last 10 years I
really have nothing to complain about or demand right this minute. I
don't think the sport is in critical condition and only surviving
because it's on life support. So, I'm not operating under the
presumption that the sport is pretty much fine the way it is...
because I think it should continually strive to be ever better than it
is and to grow even faster, even as I firmly believe the sport is
thriving and growing ridiculously fast.
> Do me a favor, go back to the video of the chick getting clobbered that was
> posted two weeks ago (I don't have the link handy).
>
> Forget about the video.
>
> Read the ensuing threads.
>
> That is your constituency.
If I was a member of the UPA's Board of Directors, isn't my
constituency, primarily, UPA members?
> The game of Ultimate belongs to everyone, not the UPA and certainly not UPA
> members.
What's your point?
> If you want to collect as many opinions as you can, read the comments on
> that video page and that will give you a balanced perspective on the sport.
Are you making the assumption that I haven't?
> No Ultimate Revolution that the UPA can sponsor is going to change that.
Are you this optimistic in real life? :)
> The sport is seriously flawed in it's current incarnation.
So why don't you go out and start your own Ultimate league/game system
with its own rules like Toad?
I'm confused as to your motivation for being so anti-UPA, especially
now so that you're running for the Board. I'm not saying that you
shouldn't -- please, go right ahead -- I like having a larger field
with more voices. I guess what I'm confused about is why you'd want to
lead, let alone join an organization that you so obviously don't like
very much. Or, I may be completely misunderstanding your views on the
UPA.... please correct me if I'm wrong.
> Can you explain to me why double teaming is illegal?
Because most people are only down with one person humping their leg at
once?
ulticritic
> > how would you reach out to get the best/most accurate
> > needs andwantsassestment of the upa membership at large in the most
> > efficient, effective and cost effective manner
>
> On my own I would just flat out talk to as many people as possible.
you really think thats efficient....or effective......i guess it
dosent cost anything but sure would be time consuming......and you
know what they say, time IS money
--------------------------------------------------------
> I like the before mentioned idea of polling the UPA membership as
> people join the UPA or renew their membership.
now your talkin.....and dont forget to use the kiss method
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I would like to see polling stations set up at large events.
or maybe just sectionals so you could kind of get the info from each
and every member and be done with it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think
> setting up events and asking people to come is great, but I'd like to
> see the UPA take a more aggressive stance on gathering data. Have a
> central polling tent at every Regional event and at Nationals.
why do it there if youve already gathered info at sectionals.....and
what about the majority of members that dont make it to those levels?
how do you get their opinions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have
> people with clipboards moving around at the events. I guess it sounds
> overly simplistic,
hardly simplistic.......seems like more labor intensive......remember
the question was about getting this info cheap and easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Because the UPA serves such a diverse constituency I don't think one
> method for gathering information is going to be THE way.
well there has got to be THE best way..........thats what needs to be
figured out
------------------------------------------------------------
I think the
> UPA is going to need to continue gathering information in as many ways
> as possible.
sounds like many of those ways are gonna be wastful and costly
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Another thing I've brought up before is the creation of a slick, well
> maintained and moderated 'official' UPA forum. Yes, it's very nice to
> have RSD, many various Ultimate news sites, and lots of great local
> forums, but I want to see well formatted, public threads populated by
> posts from people that work at the UPA and people on the Board. The
> UPA already relies heavily on email so I don't think it would be too
> much of a transition to moving some of the conversations they must
> have every day to a robust online forum. Get several thousand active
> posters into a UPA forum along with lots of other UPA members reading
> what's going on... and viola!... you have a fantastic conduit for
> collecting and disseminating (isn't it neat when I can use that
> word? ;) ) information. Right now the UPA comunity, when online, is
> fractured into many pieces. There are people that obsess over RSD.
> There are people that read the blogs and nothing else. There are
> people that kinda use their league's online forum. There are people
> that don't know what a forum is. There are people that only use their
> league's email list. I will like to see the UPA create a focal point
> for every member's online attention. Once that's established I think
> the UPA will be better connected to its constituency and therefore
> much more in-tune with the needs and wants of the community.
well they (the upa) did create one in conjunction with the ult
rev......i dont think to many people stumbled onto it though......Kind
of like the welcome to ultimate talk blog site (which is kind of
elitest). Seems to me the focal point is already here in the form of
RSD......why not just get the upa administrators to join this party?
we are all here already
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > ........and what
> > critisisms do you have about how the ult rev was implamented (dont be
> > a company man now)?
>
> Honestly that's a tough question for me to answer since I'm a big fan
sounds like the words of a company man to me
---------------------------------------------------------------------
re people in. I was
> honestly disappointed in the number of people that attended each
> summit -- I thought there would be more.
alrighty then.....now we are gettin down and dirty........so they WERE
kinda lame........inefficent, ineffective and not very cost
effective? thats the kind of honesty i was lookin for
---------------------------------------------------------
That's really not much of a
> criticism
are you kidding me thats a huge critisism......and a duely noted one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
of the implementation since I don't really have any big
> suggestions on how to draw more people in.
well put on your thinkin cap........as a potential board member people
will want big (and creative) suggestions in exchange for their vote. I
know i do
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'll have to think more on the question.... hrmmm.....
well why you are thinkin.....tell us what your take on the name of the
movement......"revolution"......do you think it was
apropriate.......that davies dude didnt seem to think so.......and
neither did i. I mean where was the revolt? Maybe it was in that
there was such a small turn out
(hee................hee................hee)
and dont forget to address the questions put forth to the other
canidates?
ulticritic
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> Who are you more responsible to, the sport of Ultimate or the constituents?
hey frank.....if you are seriously runnin you need to not worry about
joshs' opinions and answer the questions that are asked of all the
canidates. Dont be so critical of others untill you can offer up
valid, thoughtful and practical solutions to the problems that exist
of your own. Otherwise people will just think you are trying to make
a mockery of the election........which most probably do anyways.
just a little constructive critisism........now that you are in the
ring you are gonna have to do some politicing........or politricking,
as the rastas say.
Boomer
flattered that of all the candidates I managed to get the highest word
count from you by far. I got 68 more words out of you as compared
Robin, my closest competitor for the calling-out. I also got the
longest question. Clearly, my use of the words "dames," "kill my
landlord," and "lawyer" got your attention, and don't they say all
publicity is good publicity?
Dames: "Dames," as we all know from the jaunty favorite "Ba Ba Black
Sheep," is the female equivalent of "Masters." Also, "Dames" is
pithier rather than "Women's Masters." But everyone (especially those
fond of high word counts) should feel free to refer to the movement by
either term.
Why mention my team: (a) I love my team; (b) I functioned as part of
an overall unit comprised of people who brought different strengths to
the table, I'd do the same on the UPA Board should I be elected. I'm
not the expert in everything, so if I need information I'll go find an
expert and ask them questions.
The question you possibly meant to ask:
Why did you call the team Kill My Landlord? Three reasons. First,
the name came from a league team I was on that was particularly
Spirited and fun, and I wanted to have that at the club level.
Second, it's from the poem "Images" by Tyrone Green -a death row
inmate who became an award winning poet. It makes the point that one
can't make assumptions; people have layers. Third, most people
remember the SNL sketch in which Eddie Murphy, playing Tyrone Green,
did a dramatic reading of "Images." Eddie Murphy is a funny guy. I
like funny.
By the way, I'm a landlord, too. Several of us on the team are.
We're just well-read and have a sense of humor.
I'm bemused by your third question. As best I can tell, the question
is: Why should there be a mixed division in which women play on the
same field as men, who are bigger, stronger and faster in a sport
where physical injury is a risk, should the UPA have a risk management
program (I'm assuming one related to the possibility of player
injury), and what do I think of that as a lawyer?
Sure, women can get injured by men. We can also get injured by other
women. Men can get injured by men. There are serious size
differentials even within the genders. Anyone on the field can get
hurt by anyone else on the field if people aren't paying attention,
and sometimes by accident even if they are. People make a choice when
they step on the field to assume a certain amount of risk and take on
a certain level of responsibility as to just how aggressively they
will play - club is different from league, for example, particularly
if the league is beginner friendly. The UPA has a waiver system in
place for sanctioned events through which people acknowledge that
there's a risk of injury and agree that they accept it.
I've been on crutches for a knee injured in an end zone collision.
I've been clocked in the head and had bloody noses, scrapes and
bruises of all manner. I've also been through labor twice, so I think
I can safely say I can handle anything the field dishes out. (Indeed,
a Dames division may finally provide me with similarly situated
competitors who can handle major amounts of pain without whining.)
Yes, when I step on the field I run the risk of getting hurt. I've
also D'ed guys twice my weight and well over a foot taller. Haven't
killed anyone yet though. So I have no problem with a mixed division
and there's a waiver process in place that seems to be working.
I'm not a personal injury lawyer, so I can't opine further on that
particular legal front. But as a promotions, advertising and
intellectual property lawyer, I advise those afraid of death never to
smoke cigarettes, skydive, go rock climbing, drink rancid milk, drive,
or, indeed, leave your home - and while at home certainly don't leave
your hair dryer running on the side of the tub as you take a bath.
Indeed don't engage in any sort of physical activity at all or go near
people or animals (real or stuffed) or have a life.
So, folks in the Northwest, I'd appreciate your vote. The strategic
plan the UPA develops will chart the organization's future. This is
going to affect all of us at every level - pick up, league, club, all
age ranges, all divisions. The UPA did a great job polling on issues
back in 2006, including reaching out to non-member players. I want to
continue to make sure everyone has a voice at the Board level -
including newer players who may not fully appreciate just how much UPA
decisions and services affect them, and pick up players who may not be
UPA members, and who some policy decisions will also nonetheless
affect.
The organization has a great heart, and we can help it make sure to
continue to keep all needs and viewpoints in mind.
~ Lara
Josh
> On Oct 11, 10:34 pm, Josh <jsea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > how would you reach out to get the best/most accurate
> > > needs andwantsassestment of the upa membership at large in the most
> > > efficient, effective and cost effective manner
>
> > On my own I would just flat out talk to as many people as possible.
>
> you really think thats efficient....or effective......i guess it
> dosent cost anything but sure would be time consuming......and you
> know what they say, time IS money
So you're saying, that if I'm a elected to the UPA Board, I shouldn't
talk to as many people as possible? You wanted me to come up with ways
for the UPA to get a better picture of the needs and wants of the UPA
Membership.... In my opinion an essential element in doing that is
having each Board member be as connected and social inside the
Ultimate community. I also brought this up because it wouldn't cost
the UPA a thing in terms of $$. Yes, time is money, and I could be
doing something right now to earn more money, but I'm not -- I'm
spending the time to connect to part of the Ultimate community.
> why do it there if youve already gathered info at sectionals.....
Because I was just suggesting it was done at Regionals and not
Sectionals, but now that you bring it up, just doing it at Sectionals
would be great and it would reach more people.
> and
> what about the majority of members that dont make it to those levels?
> how do you get their opinions
I'm not sure -- door to door canvassing? ;)
> Have
>
> > people with clipboards moving around at the events. I guess it sounds
> > overly simplistic,
>
> hardly simplistic.......seems like more labor intensive......remember
> the question was about getting this info cheap and easy
It is pretty simple. Design survey. I tell my 50 Ultimate kids to go
out into a major tournament and poll as many people as possible.
> > Because the UPA serves such a diverse constituency I don't think one
> > method for gathering information is going to be THE way.
>
> well there has got to be THE best way..........thats what needs to be
> figured out
Why? I understand that the UPA can't try a 1,000 different methods of
data collection, but why not a few all at once? During the Ultimate
season I never rely on one method to get info out to my players -- I
post it on our team's website, email it to them, hand out a hard copy,
and read the announcement out loud at practice.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think the
>
> > UPA is going to need to continue gathering information in as many ways
> > as possible.
>
> sounds like many of those ways are gonna be wastful and costly
I suggested:
1) Me talking to people -- Free
2) Get polling stations set up at a tournament (one person at tent)
and possible a few walking around the event. I could set that up on a
budget of $100 a day, easy. How much cheaper do you want this info
gathering to be?
3) Setting up a REAL online form (Not a blog with comments -- see
below) -- Ummm, hosting = $100 a year and solid, licensed board
software (re: NOT phpBB) around $89 a year.
Doesn't seem to expensive to me....
> well they (the upa) did create one in conjunction with the ult
> rev......i dont think to many people stumbled onto it though......Kind
> of like the welcome to ultimate talk blog site (which is kind of
> elitest). Seems to me the focal point is already here in the form of
> RSD......why not just get the upa administrators to join this party?
> we are all here already
I am not talking about blogs with comments. I am not talking about
sites outside of upa.org. RSD is a pretty good focal point, and it may
be the largest, but it is not what I mean -- Yes, it gets good
traffic, but long, serious conversations suck on usenet. There are no
formatting options. User accounts aren't tied into anything. I hate
reading R15 spam. There is no moderation system.Also, while RSD is
well populated, everyone isn't already here. Lots of people find this
place dirty, disgusting, hateful, and a waste of time. I'm not saying
the UPA needs to create some kind of sterile, uber-clean forum -- I'm
saying they need to create a fully featured, moderated, well populated
and threaded forum.
Also, there will always be RSD -- people can always come here and post
what they want. I want an online forum created that is more appealing
to an even larger number of people.
> > > ........and what
> > > critisisms do you have about how the ult rev was implamented (dont be
> > > a company man now)?
>
> > Honestly that's a tough question for me to answer since I'm a big fan
>
> sounds like the words of a company man to me
I've been working as hard as I can inside the UPA for 5 years... what
do you expect? ;)
> well put on your thinkin cap........as a potential board member people
> will want big (and creative) suggestions in exchange for their vote. I
> know i do
So how could they have drawn more people to the summits? I'll have to
think on that....
> well why you are thinkin.....tell us what your take on the name of the
> movement......"revolution"......do you think it was
> apropriate.......that davies dude didnt seem to think so.......and
> neither did i. I mean where was the revolt? Maybe it was in that
> there was such a small turn out
> (hee................hee................hee)
>
> and dont forget to address the questions put forth to the other
> canidates?
Okie dokie, I'll get to those later. But as you've pointed out, time
is money and I'm about to be late to my job ;)
- Josh
SHZD
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Robin made a 'campaign' promise that when Dischoops was played other than in
> Frank's backyard, he would play the game.
>
> Robin, it's time for you to step up to the plate and keep your commitment.
>
Thanks for yet more words.
ulticritic
> So you're saying, that if I'm a elected to the UPA Board, I shouldn't
> talk to as many people as possible?
not if somthing, computerwise as you suggest, can be set up once and
reach out to the masses
--------------------------------------------------------------------
You wanted me to come up with ways
> for the UPA to get a better picture of the needs and wants of the UPA
> Membership.... In my opinion an essential element in doing that is
> having each Board member be as connected and social inside the
> Ultimate community.
if you are willing to sacrifice extra time and effort kudos to you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I also brought this up because it wouldn't cost
> the UPA a thing in terms of $$. Yes, time is money, and I could be
> doing something right now to earn more money, but I'm not
ditto
----------------------------------------------------------------
> It is pretty simple. Design survey. I tell my 50 Ultimate kids to go
> out into a major tournament and poll as many people as possible.
wow, you got 50 kids. If you can drum up that kind of vounteer action
you are the man
---------------------------------------------------------------
> Why? I understand that the UPA can't try a 1,000 different methods of
> data collection, but why not a few all at once? During the Ultimate
> season I never rely on one method to get info out to my players -- I
> post it on our team's website, email it to them, hand out a hard copy,
> and read the announcement out loud at practice.
trying different ways takes time, effort and $. All i'm sayin is
there has to be a best way. Even if there are 5 best ways out of the
1000 you mention one of those 5 will be better thasn the other 4 (kind
of like when george costanza was tryin to come up with the best lie)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I suggested:
> 1) Me talking to people -- Free
> 2) Get polling stations set up at a tournament (one person at tent)
> and possible a few walking around the event. I could set that up on a
> budget of $100 a day, easy. How much cheaper do you want this info
> gathering to be?
as cheap as possible.....as a paying member i'd want to know the
options and accurate potential costs....of which i'd be really
interested in knowing how much money (out of the upa working budget)
was budgeted for and spent on the ult rev program. Do you or anyone
else have that info.
----------------------------------------------------------------
> 3) Setting up a REAL online form (Not a blog with comments -- see
> below) -- Ummm, hosting = $100 a year and solid, licensed board
> software (re: NOT phpBB) around $89 a year.
of which this one seems to be the most cost effective and
efficient.....especially if it is somehow tied in with joining
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I am not talking about blogs with comments. I am not talking about
> sites outside of upa.org. RSD is a pretty good focal point, and it may
> be the largest, but it is not what I mean -- Yes, it gets good
> traffic, but long, serious conversations suck on usenet. There are no
> formatting options. User accounts aren't tied into anything. I hate
> reading R15 spam. There is no moderation system.Also, while RSD is
> well populated, everyone isn't already here. Lots of people find this
> place dirty, disgusting, hateful, and a waste of time. I'm not saying
> the UPA needs to create some kind of sterile, uber-clean forum -- I'm
> saying they need to create a fully featured, moderated, well populated
> and threaded forum.
but wouldnt you still have long conversations........and rsd dirty????
i guess jim was right then.....we are an unwashed mass
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Also, there will always be RSD -- people can always come here and post
> what they want. I want an online forum created that is more appealing
> to an even larger number of people.
but i'm thinkin people just want a one stop shop......if people go to
rsd regularly they are probably less likley to visit other sites. But
i see what you are sayin about the format......no way to really set up
polls and such
------------------------------------------------------------------
> I've been working as hard as I can inside the UPA for 5 years... what
> do you expect? ;)
the honesty that you deleted from this response about yoour
disappointment in the turnouts
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > and dont forget to address the questions put forth to the other
> > canidates?
>
> Okie dokie, I'll get to those later. But as you've pointed out, time
> is money and I'm about to be late to my job ;)
hey, thats why i subscribe to the kiss method......just brief and to
the point responses will do.....for me anyways
Peter Mc
Nice post. Best of luck.
Peter Mc
MDSC
Columbia, MO
ulticritic
> I'm happy to answer your questions. But first, let me say I'm
> flattered that of all the candidates I managed to get the highest word
> count from you by far.
and i you......yet im not flattered.....and you shouldnt be either. In
fact i was asking those questions to all the canidates
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 68 more words out of you as compared
> Robin, my closest competitor for the calling-out. I also got the
> longest question.
well those first questions were kinda rhetorical......didnt really
expect or want an answer to those.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dames: "Dames," as we all know from the jaunty favorite "Ba Ba
Black
> Sheep," is the female equivalent of "Masters." Also, "Dames" is
> pithier rather than "Women's Masters." But everyone (especially those
> fond of high word counts) should feel free to refer to the movement by
> either term.
i didnt even know there was a womens masters division
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why mention my team:
again.....rhetorical
-----------------------------------------------------------
elected. I'm
> not the expert in everything, so if I need information I'll go find an
> expert and ask them questions.
well when you want to know about refs in ulty you got my e-mail
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Why did you call the team Kill My Landlord? Three reasons. First,
> the name came from a league team I was on that was particularly
> Spirited and fun, and I wanted to have that at the club level.
> Second, it's from the poem "Images" by Tyrone Green -a death row
> inmate who became an award winning poet. It makes the point that one
> can't make assumptions; people have layers. Third, most people
> remember the SNL sketch in which Eddie Murphy, playing Tyrone Green,
> did a dramatic reading of "Images." Eddie Murphy is a funny guy. I
> like funny.
and here i was thinking you were possibly refrencing the coup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> By the way, I'm a landlord, too. Several of us on the team are.
> We're just well-read and have a sense of humor.
zing......well you got me on the well read part. as butt head once
said "words sthuck". Since sports center originated i dont even read
the sports page. But i was being half way sacrcastic about being
offended....i think "kill whitey" is an even better name. And you
would probably appreciate this one.....for a mixed team name...."bitch
gets pwned".....get it?
----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm bemused by your third question.
why....you dont think its a valid saftey (risk management) concern
that the sexes arent segregated in a sport where collisons can be
quite nasty. There has to be a reason all other highschool, college
and pro sports are segregated by gender.
----------------------------------------------------------
> Sure, women can get injured by men. We can also get injured by other
> women. Men can get injured by men. There are serious size
> differentials even within the genders.
but not as prevelant with men vs. women
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone on the field can get
> hurt by anyone else on the field if people aren't paying attention,
> and sometimes by accident even if they are.
and exactly why you would want to minimize any potential serious
injury from that risk
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
People make a choice when
> they step on the field to assume a certain amount of risk and take on
> a certain level of responsibility
but dont the programers as well? The question what are those risks
and responsibilities......for the upa
----------------------------------------------------------------
The UPA has a waiver system in
> place for sanctioned events through which people acknowledge that
> there's a risk of injury and agree that they accept it.
from what i learned in college, taking legal aspects of rec......a
waiver dont mean squat. In fact it may make you more liable by
admiting knowledge of the risk to begin with.......which becomes
undoubtedly greater when unproportioned men and women are competing
amoungst each other.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> I can safely say I can handle anything the field dishes out.
be careful what you ask for (or flourish).....especially when playin
with the boys
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Indeed,
> a Dames division may finally provide me with similarly situated
> competitors who can handle major amounts of pain without whining.)
buts whats more is they wont dish out the same amount as say a 215 lb
man. a smart move on your part
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, when I step on the field I run the risk of getting hurt. I've
> also D'ed guys twice my weight and well over a foot taller. Haven't
> killed anyone yet though.
doubtfull that youd be th one doin the killin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not a personal injury lawyer, so I can't opine further on that
> particular legal front.
oh ok, thought you might have more insight on the actual factuals.
Might be worth looking into though.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
But as a promotions, advertising and
> intellectual property lawyer, I advise those afraid of death never to
> smoke cigarettes, skydive, go rock climbing, drink rancid milk, drive,
> or, indeed, leave your home - and while at home certainly don't leave
> your hair dryer running on the side of the tub as you take a bath.
> Indeed don't engage in any sort of physical activity at all or go near
> people or animals (real or stuffed) or have a life.
unfortunatly these are all risk management issues.....of which,
shouldnt the upa have some kind of risk management plan? Maybe they
do.....i dont know....just askin.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> age ranges, all divisions. The UPA did a great job polling on issues
> back in 2006, including reaching out to non-member players.
great??????? thas wierd, josh seamon said he was quite dissapointed in
the summit turnouts......and that davies doode was unsure of the name
of the program in the first place(ult rev).....how does that equate to
great?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The organization has a great heart, and we can help it make sure to
> continue to keep all needs and viewpoints in mind.
well then, how about answering the questions put forth to the other
canidates as well.....and just some constructive crisisism......dont
be so wordy(many of us dont count words)......just keep it short and
to the point (you just dont want to get that a.t.n.a. immage). You
seem to have great energy so good luck and looking forward to hearin
your views on other issues
Josh
> On Oct 12, 7:07 am, Josh <jsea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So you're saying, that if I'm a elected to the UPA Board, I shouldn't
> > talk to as many people as possible?
>
> not if somthing, computerwise as you suggest, can be set up once and
> reach out to the masses
Even if the UPA could gather a plethora of information online, I'd
still be out there connecting on a face to face level with as many
people as possible. No matter how many conversations I have online,
none of them can completely replace the kind of connection you get
from a face to face conversation.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You wanted me to come up with ways
>
> > for the UPA to get a better picture of the needs and wants of the UPA
> > Membership.... In my opinion an essential element in doing that is
> > having each Board member be as connected and social inside the
> > Ultimate community.
>
> if you are willing to sacrifice extra time and effort kudos to you.
Welcome to who I am ;) I love what I do as a math teacher but I also
adore all the things I do that I don't have to do. Last year I wanted
to take some of my students to Europe -- last February I took 36 of
them on a 17-day, 1200 mile trip from Athens all the way up to
Chamonix. I live to coach and I want to coach more than I do during
the spring season so I coach and organize YCC teams. Last summer I
recruited, organized, and ran two YCCs essentially all on my own. I
thought it would be fun for some of the girls in NE to play in the
PCUP last year... so I gathered a team and did all of the work
necessary to bring them down to Atlanta. This year my plan is to bring
a boys team down to Terminus in March and a girls team down to the
Paideia Cup in April. These are all things I don't have to do.
My life is all about the sacrifices of time and energy I make to the
greater community. It's what I like to do. It's what I'd love to be
able to do as a UPA Board member.
> > It is pretty simple. Design survey. I tell my 50 Ultimate kids to go
> > out into a major tournament and poll as many people as possible.
>
> wow, you got 50 kids. If you can drum up that kind of vounteer action
> you are the man
When I came to St. Johnsbury Academy in the Fall of '02 there was no
Ultimate club or any kind of organized games on campus outside of a
once a year winter carnival game of "Ultimate". The spring of 2008
will be our second season as an official, fully funded, Varsity sport.
There will be 4 teams -- Boys and Girls V and JV teams. This spring
we'll host out 4th annual tournament. Last year we hosted 2 weekend
long HS tournaments -- This year I'm working to combine the events
into a single weekend 32 high school team tournament. There is no way
any of this could have happened without all of the volunteer support
I've received. If this is what I've managed to do at one high school,
I'd really like to see what I can do on the national level.
Here are those 50 kids I'm so proud of:
http://vtultimate.org/v-web/portal/cms/ac/gallery/albums/album106/DSC_9206.jpg
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Why? I understand that the UPA can't try a 1,000 different methods of
> > data collection, but why not a few all at once? During the Ultimate
> > season I never rely on one method to get info out to my players -- I
> > post it on our team's website, email it to them, hand out a hard copy,
> > and read the announcement out loud at practice.
>
> trying different ways takes time, effort and $. All i'm sayin is
> there has to be a best way. Even if there are 5 best ways out of the
> 1000 you mention one of those 5 will be better thasn the other 4 (kind
> of like when george costanza was tryin to come up with the best lie)
Okay, so let's say we some how come up with the five best ways to
gather info.
1) Those methods are bound to be better at getting at certain
populations than others
2) I doubt there is going to be a concrete metric to determine a best
of the five
As long as 'those 5' aren't prohibitively expensive, I say run all 5.
(I'm not sure what those best 5 are at the moment.)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> i'd be really
> interested in knowing how much money (out of the upa working budget)
> was budgeted for and spent on the ult rev program. Do you or anyone
> else have that info.
I don't have that info -- But I bet you could find out from Sandie,
Kyle, or Peri.
> > 3) Setting up a REAL online form (Not a blog with comments -- see
> > below) -- Ummm, hosting = $100 a year and solid, licensed board
> > software (re: NOT phpBB) around $89 a year.
>
> of which this one seems to be the most cost effective and
> efficient.....especially if it is somehow tied in with joining
Yes, it is cost effective in that it's free, but... RSD:
1) Has no moderation abilities
2) No post formatting options, not even basic HTML
3) No way to do anything creative like polls or post files
For me, the ~$200 a year it would cost to host an official UPA online
forum would be well worth it, even if RSD is free.
> but wouldnt you still have long conversations........
Of course, but when reading long conversations in well formatted board
my eyes don't bleed. My eyes tend to hemorrhage profusely after
reading an hour's worth of RSD posts. The formatting blows -- there's
no quote feature even. Yikes. Most people don't make it through
reading long RSD conversations because they tend to fracture in no
time flat. A moderated, properly formatted forum would make it MUCH
easier for people to have those long conversations and for other
people to read them.
> and rsd dirty????
> i guess jim was right then.....we are an unwashed mass
Of course, was there any doubt? Don't get me wrong -- I love the fact
that RSD is around -- What I don't like is that there is no official
UPA equivalent.
Another related point -- I'd like to get a large number of youth
players participating in online forums. Do you think RSD is the kind
of place a high school coach should encourage his players to go post
in?
> > Also, there will always be RSD -- people can always come here and post
> > what they want. I want an online forum created that is more appealing
> > to an even larger number of people.
>
> but i'm thinkin people just want a one stop shop......if people go to
> rsd regularly they are probably less likley to visit other sites.
Ahh, I doubt RSD would take much of a hit -- rabid RSD'ers would still
post in RSD. But those thousands of people who just read RSD and not
post would have a place where they might feel more inclined to be
involved in the conversation.
> But
> i see what you are sayin about the format......no way to really set up
> polls and such
Yah, it would be fantastic to have the options of a professional forum
on RSD.... but since that's not going to happen....
Here's the kind of forum software I'd like to see the UPA run:
http://www.vbulletin.com/
>
> > > and dont forget to address the questions put forth to the other
> > > canidates?
>
> > Okie dokie, I'll get to those later. But as you've pointed out, time
> > is money and I'm about to be late to my job ;)
>
> hey, thats why i subscribe to the kiss method......just brief and to
> the point responses will do.....for me anyways
K, I'll get on that asap.
Joe Buck
> and just some constructive crisisism......dont
> be so wordy(many of us dont count words)......just keep it short and
> to the point (you just dont want to get that a.t.n.a. immage).
canidates
refrencing
sacrcastic
saftey
collisons
prevelant
unproportioned
amoungst
unfortunatly
crisisism
immage
Just sayin' man. Just sayin'.
ulticritic
get over it buck......everyone else has
Joe Buck
> get over it buck......everyone else has-
nope. sorry.
you don't get to be condescending to her when you misuse every word
over two syllables.
ulticritic
> Even if the UPA could gather a plethora of information online, I'd
> still be out there connecting on a face to face level with as many
> people as possible. No matter how many conversations I have online,
> none of them can completely replace the kind of connection you get
> from a face to face conversation.
well if you ever make it to wilmington maybe i'll get that honor
------------------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to who I am
you are once again becoming my front runner
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so let's say we some how come up with the five best ways to
> gather info.
> 1) Those methods are bound to be better at getting at certain
> populations than others
but one will probably reach "the most"........as it seemed the ult rev
summits didnt
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 2) I doubt there is going to be a concrete metric to determine a best
> of the five
i would think there would be data that showed what method worked best
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As long as 'those 5' aren't prohibitively expensive, I say run all 5.
> (I'm not sure what those best 5 are at the moment.)
well the efficiency and effectivness is bound to have a dropping
point.....and maybe after just one.....maybe 3 ...... maybe 5. I
just think its somthing that should/could be figured out.......and
maybe you are the man to do that.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For me, the ~$200 a year it would cost to host an official UPA online
> forum would be well worth it, even if RSD is free.
i wonder why noone has championed it to date?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ulticritic
well then dont get over it....i dont really give a shit
Joe Buck
> well then dont get over it....i dont really give a shit
you do give a shit.
you know you do.
you use big words because you want to command respect.
"command" being the important part. like it's owed to you.
you think you deserve to be heard because your ideas are so much more
important than everyone else's, and you're the only one willing to
tackle the important issues.
but here's the rub.
the basis for your entire idea is flawed.
the upa is a non profit organization. steps they would have to take
towards making their "product" a professional league, would make them
a for profit business. if you want, you can call into espn radio to
try and figure out how this doesn't work.
as far as making ultimate more fan friendly by utilizing* professional
gimicks, i've been doing that for years. whenever my team is playing
their first defensive point, we wait for the first logical stoppage in
play. then we turn to face the person we're guarding, look at the
ground, and slowly pan up until we make eye contact. then we each say
in order; our names, and the school we last attended.
"Joseph."
"Buck."
"+T H E+ Vince Lombardi High School"
i'm telling you man, it's chilling. our opponents love it.
* i'll translate this for you, the word you would use instead is
USEDTILITISING
ulticritic
> On Oct 12, 11:24 am, ulticritic <t...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > well then dont get over it....i dont really give a shit
>
> you do give a shit.
> you know you do.
how do you figure....if i really gave a shit i'd figure out how to use
spell check now wouldnt i
>
> you use big words because you want to command respect.
no.....i just try and argue my point(s)......i cant help it that i
know how to use big words yet dont know how to spell them
> "command" being the important part. like it's owed to you.
> you think you deserve to be heard because your ideas are so much more
> important than everyone else's, and you're the only one willing to
> tackle the important issues.
hey, i'm just one man practicing my freedom of speech
rights......obviously this is a somthing that you subconciously
believe. i will say that i am partial to my ideas but its not like
the are only mine.......they are basically the same as every other
normal sports minded person in america. Just tryin to bring a little
normalcy to ultimate.
>
> but here's the rub.
> the basis for your entire idea is flawed.
for my idea of finding out where canidates stand on various
issues?????
>
> the upa is a non profit organization. steps they would have to take
> towards making their "product" a professional league, would make them
> a for profit business. if you want, you can call into espn radio to
> try and figure out how this doesn't work.
first off, i think you are on the wrong thread. Secondly as long as
profits are reinvested into the organization i believe it can still
have non profit status. and third i dont think espn would give a shit
about ultimate as a sport much less its corporate status.
>
> as far as making ultimate more fan friendly by utilizing* professional
> gimicks, i've been doing that for years. whenever my team is playing
> their first defensive point, we wait for the first logical stoppage in
> play. then we turn to face the person we're guarding, look at the
> ground, and slowly pan up until we make eye contact. then we each say
> in order; our names, and the school we last attended.
heres the thing though......nobody gives a shit about you or your
team. I doubt you were selected much less even considered for a spot
on one of the mlu teams so you are rather insignificant. There is
only a very small percentage of ultimate players that are even close
to being worthy of being able to entertain and you arent one of em.
>
> "Joseph."
>
> "Buck."
>
> "+T H E+ Vince Lombardi High School"
>
> i'm telling you man, it's chilling. our opponents love it.
sounds kinda gay to me.....yet at the same time you flourish the fact
that you copy one of the entertainment aspects of monday night
football.
>
> * i'll translate this for you, the word you would use instead is
> USEDTILITISING
see now theres the difference, everybody understands the words i use
even when i misspell them.........i dont know what the fuck word thats
suposed to be
Boomer
There used to be a Women's Masters division, it went by the wayside in
the late 90's. We're exploring the possibility of getting it started
back up. You're referencing the musical group The Coup? Love them.
Maybe I'll call my next league team "Boosters."
I was bemused by your third question not because I don't think there's
a safety concern, but because I wasn't sure I understood what you were
asking. As I said since it's not my field I can't give you insight
into the extent to which the UPA waiver may or may not be enforceable
in any given state or injury situation. I'm certainly willing to take
a look at risk management issues and I since can speak and translate
legalese perhaps that makes the conversations with outside counsel
more efficient.
As for who's doing the hurtin' and killin' -- I'm not aware of any
reliable statistics that establish that there are more injuries in one
division over another, nor that the severity of injuries is greater in
one division over the others. If you are, by all means please send me
the information on how I can get them. Ultimate is a non-contact
sport. Players are expected to be cognizant of where they are in
relation to other players, the level of competition and take
responsibility for themselves. Mixed competition is a reflection of
the real world, in which men and women work and live side by side.
That's part of why mixed is so valuable - it promotes camaraderie and
Spirit of the Game in a context that reflects the real world.
No doubt you've heard these points before, and you may still feel
mixed is too risky to be allowed. If I've misunderstood, please
correct me. If I've got that right -- fair enough, we disagree.
You want me to answer the non-rhetorical questions you put to each
candidate and be pithy about it. Here's my shot:
Q: Have you tried dischoops?
A: No, but I hear it's fun.
Q: What do you think ultimate could do to help maximize entertainment
value and make a real impact on the media.....and in order to maximize
sponsorship opportunities how would you better market ultimate as a
commodity?
A: The answers depend on what the goal is in promoting Ultimate.
Promote Spirit of the Game? Encourage elite athletes who might
otherwise play other sports (track and field, basketball, football) to
play Ultimate instead? Get more people playing the sport, and at what
level? Create opportunities for people to make money (product
marketing, professional leagues, etc.)? Personally, I support
promoting STOG and when I talk about and promote the sport that's my
focus.
A related question is, to what extent should the UPA take a position
on and/or support any of these specific goals? The key is what the
membership wants, and at the end of the day that's what is going to
guide the Board on these issues. Set the goal first, then develop the
promotional plan.
Q: So what are you gonna do as a upa board member to push for ncaa
varsity sport status? and if part of achieving that goal means
getting refs into the comp will you still support that transition?
A: This specific issue isn't part of my platform but I'm not opposed
to it. The observer/referee question is both a related and separate
issue. For sake of argument, let's say the membership decides
observers are OK, but no refs, and wants the UPA to make the pitch for
NCAA varsity status.
The NCAA might need a fair amount of education as to how self-
regulation has been part of Ultimate and how the observer system
works. If the NCAA says, you have to have refs to get varsity status,
given the hypothetical situation the UPA replies, sorry to hear that,
thanks for your time. If the NCAA decides after the pitch to allow
varsity status with refs and takes steps to implement that - does the
UPA object on principle? Demand the sport not be referred to as
"Ultimate"? It's the same issue as with defining and promoting
Ultimate - what's the end goal and what does the membership want?
That's what's going to dictate the UPA's course.
You raised other observer/ref questions of the candidates, so I'll
just try to respond to those here.
My personal stance on observers and refs: I've never played in an
observed game, but I've watched them. I've never played an Ultimate
game with refs, but I've played other sports with officials (tennis,
volleyball, soccer). I'm a huge fan of the self-regulation concept.
I think it's a big part of what sets Ultimate apart. It requires you
to make a connection with your opponent and to engage in an honest
self-assessment about your own actions. There's a danger taking the
rules enforcement away from players all together by introducing
referees will undermine this distinctive, highly positive element of
the sport. I'm also leery of the observer concept. That said, I'm
educating myself more about the observer system and getting feedback
from folks who like it about why it works for them. If the membership
wants an observer system at some level, then that's what happens.
I'll also listen to arguments in favor of a referee system. I've got
your email and I've got access to the RSD posts on the topic, among
other resources.
Q: How would you reach out to get the best/most accurate needs and
wants assessment of the upa membership at large in the most efficient,
effective and cost effective manner........and what criticisms do you
have about how the ult rev was implemented (dont be a company man
now)?
A: Josh made some good suggestions in response to this question. The
UPA recently used a web-based survey tool to poll members on Masters
issues - that is a great, inexpensive way to collect and analyze lots
of data. A UPA forum would be great, too. As for criticisms, at
least in the SF/Bay Area I thought the polling and meetings were well
done. Full credit to Elizabeth Murray for supervising and executing
that effort, she worked very hard to get input. To the extent people
didn't respond to polls or attend forums it certainly wasn't due to
lack of promotion. If another round of polling seems to be in order,
I'd suggest using the same web-based survey tool.
Q: What are your feelings about a semi pro type singular game league
established in the nw (much like the major league lax genesis) with
all the bells and whistles of other professional fan friendly
sports.......would you consider being part of such an endeavor?
A: On principle I'm OK with that. If it's a WWE-style event that
promotes or permits violent contact as a way to boost ratings, my brow
will furrow and I'll say it's a good thing they're calling it
"Destruct-o Disc" rather than "Ultimate." Whether the UPA as a non-
profit organization should actively take part in promoting a
professional or semi-pro league or remain neutral is another
question. Again, what does the membership want?
Q: How would you go about improving the ultimate experience at the
sectional level and how do you get input from the silent majority on
how they would want things to be run by the upa?
A: Encourage people to do what I did - start a team, get through a
season and go to Sectionals. Put together a how-to guide, further
promote programs and services the UPA offers that can support the
effort (insurance, the coaching clinics). As for getting input from
the silent majority, see the needs/wants assessment answer above.
Let me know if I missed anything.
~ Lara
Frank Huguenard
> On Oct 11, 10:48 pm, "Frank Huguenard"
> <fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Josh,
>>
>> Who are you more responsible to, the sport of Ultimate or the
>> constituents?
>
> Right now I'm more responsible to the sport of Ultimate. If I was
> elected to the UPA's Board of Directors that responsibility would
> shift more to the 1) the constituents of the UPA and 2) everyone else
> who plays Ultimate who isn't a member of the UPA.
Sorry, I meant if elected.
Let me try to rephrase this so you get my point. As a Board Member for the
sport of Ultimate (which is basically saying the same thing as the UPA), do
you feel responsible to all the people who have not played Ultimate yet
(which is obviously a signficantly larger number than those who have)?
What I'm trying to get at here is that the sport is bigger than the UPA, it
belongs to the world.
Is it fair to say that UPA membership is not very representative of the
general public? How about representative of the average recreational
athlete?
>> Are you under the presumption that the sport is pretty much fine just the
>> way it is?
>
> Assuming that I am, is there anything wrong with that? You want people
> to respect your opinion that Ultimate is not fine the way it is --
>Do you respect the opinion of people that think that the sport is "pretty
> much fine the way it is"?
Respect them as people,yes.
Respect their knowledge of Ultimate, absolutely not.
> I don't think you can break people down into
> two clear groups -- those who think Ultimate is fine and those that
> don't. There are too many gray areas in between. I think Ultimate is
> going strong and I like what it is and where it's headed. Does that
> mean I think the rules, spirit, and direction of the sport are going
> to stay static for now until the end of time? Hell no. Do I think
> things are going to change gradually over time? Absolutely. With the
> huge growth in participation in the sport over the last 10 years I
> really have nothing to complain about or demand right this minute. I
> don't think the sport is in critical condition and only surviving
> because it's on life support. So, I'm not operating under the
> presumption that the sport is pretty much fine the way it is...
> because I think it should continually strive to be ever better than it
> is and to grow even faster, even as I firmly believe the sport is
> thriving and growing ridiculously fast.
>
>
>
>> Do me a favor, go back to the video of the chick getting clobbered that
>> was
>> posted two weeks ago (I don't have the link handy).
>>
>> Forget about the video.
>>
>> Read the ensuing threads.
>>
>> That is your constituency.
>
> If I was a member of the UPA's Board of Directors, isn't my
> constituency, primarily, UPA members?
Under the current bylaws, yes.
My assertion is that the UPA does not own Ultimate, it is public domain and
the UPA's charter (in the bylaws) is to act in the best interest of the
sport.
UPA Membership is what, 20,000? World population is 6,000,000,000.
Let's say you're CEO of a corporation and you're selling a product (in this
case, the UPA's product is currently the 11th edition).
Are your customers just the stock holders or the whole world? With all the
talk of the potential entertainment value of Ultimate, that would presume
that the consumers are Joe Coach potato. In that sense he is your
constitueny. Furthermore, I would also argue that the stockholders (the UPA
membership), is a fairly skewed demographic within our general poplulation
and they would like to KEEP it that way.
Your job is to do what's best for your company, not for the stockholders
(ideally, they should be the same but the company comes first).
>
>
>> The game of Ultimate belongs to everyone, not the UPA and certainly not
>> UPA
>> members.
>
> What's your point?
That pandering to current UPA membership is not necessarily a good thing.
It takes vision outside of the box to see the bigger picture here, not just
talking to Sally Q. Treehugger about what she wants out of a UPA Board
Member.
>
>> If you want to collect as many opinions as you can, read the comments on
>> that video page and that will give you a balanced perspective on the
>> sport.
>
> Are you making the assumption that I haven't?
No. This is meant for everyone. Not that people don't already know it's a
refresher to read what general perception is about Ultimate Frisbee.
>
>> No Ultimate Revolution that the UPA can sponsor is going to change that.
>
> Are you this optimistic in real life? :)
A revolution does not come from within.
>
>
>
>> The sport is seriously flawed in it's current incarnation.
>
> So why don't you go out and start your own Ultimate league/game system
> with its own rules like Toad?
>
> I'm confused as to your motivation for being so anti-UPA, especially
> now so that you're running for the Board. I'm not saying that you
> shouldn't -- please, go right ahead -- I like having a larger field
> with more voices. I guess what I'm confused about is why you'd want to
> lead, let alone join an organization that you so obviously don't like
> very much. Or, I may be completely misunderstanding your views on the
> UPA.... please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ultimate has been my life. My desire is to change the way the UPA does
business, change the by-laws and utlimate change the rules to the game.
As I said, a revolution never comes from within. What better way to bring
about change than to have the ultimate outsider join the fray.
>> Can you explain to me why double teaming is illegal?
>
> Because most people are only down with one person humping their leg at
> once?
That's amusing but I don't think it's true. 9 out of 10 mixed players, when
surveyed responded that they enjoy at least two people humping their legs.
Seriously. There is no good answer here. The rules for Ultimate are LONG
overdue for a serious overhaul.
>
>
Frank Huguenard
He is articulate and well thought out.
"ulticritic" <t...@ec.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1192163206.8...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Frank Huguenard
curve. I've got UPA surveys from 1988 or thereabouts that have all the same
questions (give or take) with the same results.
Do you really believe that the consensus knows what's best for the sport?
"Josh" <jse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192187226.9...@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
ultimatep...@gmail.com
< sounds kinda gay to me....
i find your usage here to be alienating. i would prefer
it if rec.sport.disc were less homophobic.
also (and obviously), using language that people will
find alienating will not help you convince anyone of
anything. well, assuming that they aren't homophobes
themselves, which i wish i could assume.
Frank Huguenard
Let me try this again. This may seem like a bizarre analogy but bear with
me.
Let's just say that the rules for Ultimate were written back in the day in a
way such that they attracted predominantly left handed people.
The governing body was therefore naturally predominantly left handed and
most of the UPA, left handed.
The bylaws of the UPA were even written such that changing the rules away
from the ones that were slanted towards left handed people was next to
impossible.
The rules committee is all made up of left handed people and so the rules
keep their bias.
You're left handed, as are all the other candidates for the board this year
(although you are certainly the most well thought out) and your platform is
playing along company lines (I'd say party lines but there is only one party
here).
As such, you're not even aware that the rules are skewed towards your
demographic. You naturally see things as they are from your perspective and
so everything is good. The youth movement is growing strong, the game is
growing yada yada yada.
So when I ask you who your constituency is, what I'm trying to say is that
it's not just the left handed people of the world the game belongs to, it's
everyone.
Ultimate has been owned, governed, and ruled by a demographic over the past
30 years that has been well chronicled. I don't need to make a case for
this. It is obvious.
There may have been a slight shift over the past few years but while UPA
members are certainly diverse culturally, they also are still mostly 'left
handed', so to speak.
So, I'll ask again. If elected, who are you responsible to? The game of
Ultimate or the 'left handed' people?
ulticritic
> On Oct 12, 12:34 pm, ulticritic <t...@ec.rr.com> wrote:.
> < sounds kinda gay to me....
>
> i find your usage here to be alienating. i would prefer
> it if rec.sport.disc were less homophobic.
obviously i wasnt using the term gay in a sexual way.... think about
what it was that i was refering to as being gay.......it was ment to
be thought of as gay/stupid not gay/faggish.
>
> also (and obviously), using language that people will
> find alienating will not help you convince anyone of
> anything.
well i dont think i needed to try and convince anyone that what joe
buck and his idiot teammates do on their first defensive point do is
stupid/gay
well, assuming that they aren't homophobes
> themselves, which i wish i could assume.
hey ive got nothing against the gays......my father is gay (not
really)....i'm steeped in gayness......not that theres anything wrong
with that
OnePleiades
it's offensive and demeaning to use the word gay in such a context.
~Lynn
Mike Gerics
>I believe that the point is that "gay" is not a synonym for "stupid";
> it's offensive and demeaning to use the word gay in such a context.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--maybe we could keep the topics about disc related events.