Worst Indian Cricketer of All Time
Shashin Shah
Ranbhise, Dinesh R. <din...@jane.uh.edu> wrote:
>In article <44...@tau-ceti.isc-br.com>, muthu...@access.isc-br.com (M.R. Muthukumar) writes...
>>NRS (5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu) wrote:
>>: Hi:
>>: We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>>: from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>>: player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>>: country please). I thought of the following names
>>
>>: (Based on performances for India alone - not domestic cricket)
>>
>>: Pronob Roy
>>: Parthasarathy Sharma
>>: V.B.Chandrasekhar
>>: Rudra Pratap Singh
>>
>>
>>: Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
>>: since I started watching cricket) for India.
>>
>>: Give us your thoughts.
>>
>===========================================================
>
>Maharajkumar of Vizzianagaram(India's captain in 1936)
>H.H.Ghanshamji of Limbdi(I think Inndia's captain in 1933-4?)
>Amroliwala
>Hardikar ??
>
>
who the hell are these guys? did u see them play or are u merely taking names
out of some stat book? :-) This thread def makes me tickle :-)
Shash
R. Bharat Rao
In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu (NRS) writes:
>Hi:
>We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>country please). I thought of the following names
>(Based on performances for India alone - not domestic cricket)
>Pronob Roy
>Parthasarathy Sharma
>V.B.Chandrasekhar
>Rudra Pratap Singh
Dime gets you a dollar that someone says Shastri in the first 8
responses:-).
As for the above, I thought VB Chandrasekhar got a very raw deal --
unceremoniously dropped because Bedi wanted to play his pet Gursharan
Singh -- hardly qualifies as a bust. Pranob Roy did have his
incomparable strings of ducks, but he also did score runs against many
attacks -- if being unable to face fiersome Freddy is the only
criterion then 3/4 of the Indian team would qualify.
>Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
>since I started watching cricket) for India.
What exactly do you mean by "a player who was a big bust?" Do you
mean someone who didn't make use of his talent (sadly, one of my
favorites, Brijesh Patel comes here); if you mean someone good enough
to barely make the team and get dropped, thats hardly fair. Must be
many 1 or 2 test wonders in Test cricket.
How about this -- someone who played at least 10 Tests and made no
material contribution?
Bharat
--
R. Bharat Rao E-mail:bha...@learning.scr.siemens.com
Learning Systems Department, Siemens Corporate Research
US Mail: 755 College Road East, Princeton, NJ 08540
Phones: (609)734-6531(O) (609)734-6565(F) (609)452-0227(H)
Sudip K. Mazumder
to shuffle too much, many a times exposing his leg stump. Once, I think,
Courtney Walsh got his leg stump after he realized quickly that what he
is doing. In another incident, I think against Australia, he tried to lift
a bowler of his front foot and though the shot fetched him 6 runs, amazingly
the ball landed up amidst thridman gallery.
Sudip
Vishal Misra
Bharat> Dime gets you a dollar that someone says Shastri in the
Bharat> first 8 responses:-).
Yep - one has come already!
Bharat> bust. Pranob Roy did have his incomparable strings of
Bharat> ducks, but he also did score runs against many attacks --
Bharat> if being unable to face fiersome Freddy is the only
Bharat> criterion then 3/4 of the Indian team would qualify.
I think you are confusing between father and son here.
Bharat> How about this -- someone who played at least 10 Tests and
Bharat> made no material contribution?
How about Kirti Azad? (tests, tests is the key word)
Vishal
NRS
We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
country please). I thought of the following names
(Based on performances for India alone - not domestic cricket)
Pronob Roy
Parthasarathy Sharma
V.B.Chandrasekhar
Rudra Pratap Singh
Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
since I started watching cricket) for India.
Give us your thoughts.
___________________________________________________________
N.Ramasubramanian
Grad Student - MU
E-mail : 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
Phone : 414 - 288 - 1716 (Off.)
414 - 933 - 9698 (Res.)
Insert Standard Disclaimers.
Gurvinder Sareen (Contr)
: Parthasarathy Sharma
: V.B.Chandrasekhar
: Rudra Pratap Singh
How about
W V Raman &
S...h........a......s.......t...........r.....i... ????
No flames please.
Sareen.
Balakrishnan G Nair
In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, writes:
|>
|> Pronob Roy
|> Parthasarathy Sharma
|> V.B.Chandrasekhar
|> Rudra Pratap Singh
|>
B.Arun
W.V.Raman
Gopal Sharma
Raman Lamba(in tests, not ODIs)
I liked Pronob Roy and Chandrashekahar, though
-Balky
Rakesh Gupta
PRAVEEN AMRE
RG
M.R. Muthukumar
Ranbhise, Dinesh R.
>: Hi:
>: We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>: from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>: player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>: country please). I thought of the following names
>
>: (Based on performances for India alone - not domestic cricket)
>
>: Pronob Roy
>: Parthasarathy Sharma
>: V.B.Chandrasekhar
>: Rudra Pratap Singh
>
>
>: Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
>: since I started watching cricket) for India.
>
>: Give us your thoughts.
>
SANDIP DATTA
>>|> Parthasarathy Sharma
>>|> V.B.Chandrasekhar
>>|> Rudra Pratap Singh
>>|>
> (whoever he is) never made it to any Indian side; Test or otherwise.
>
> Parthasarthy Sharma played unofficial test matches against SL - if memory serves
> me right , he may have played one test against England. Chandrasekhar played
> only ODIs methinks.
>
> Sudhama
>
sure parthasarathi sharma played official tests. I saw him against
WI at calcutta (1974-75).
some other failures are
ramnath parkar
ghulam parkar
suru Nayak
sudhir naik
*** incidentally all are from bombay hmmmmm..
brijesh patel was not a great failure as some of the netters say.
he had a pretty good series in WI in 1975-76 (had a score of 156)
scored a 49* in india's historic 4th innings win (406/4). he also
played a scored a good 56 at calcutta against greig's england to save
an innings defeat.
other notable failures are
dhiraj parsana
govindarajan (WI in 1970-71) not sure whether he played.
-S
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SANDIP DATTA Phone: 803-653-7716 (Home)
803-656-1226 (Office)
Srikant Sridevan
> >1. Rashid Patel.
> >2. Gurusharan Singh.
Surely Vizzy must take the cake, knife, plates and table...
Srikant
--
--
Bierwissenschaftenstudent
e-mail : s...@apollo.psrc.ncsu.edu
Manish Tuli
: Lmaba. Yeah he was indeed a joke. I remember he used have that tendency
Now wait a minute. Lamba though not extremely successfull was not a failure
either. He has a century and a score in the 90's in one dayers. How many
Indian Batsmen have centuries in One dayers???
Compare that guy to W V Raman. What does he have... Zero Zero and
more zero's.
Lamba was reasonably successfull in India where he failed was on
foriegn soil.
--
Manish Tuli
Dept of Technology & Society
SUNY @ Stony Brook
E-mail: bt...@ic.sunysb.edu,
bt...@ccmail.sunysb.edu,
bt...@vpfm.vpfm.sunysb.edu
Phone : (516)-632-2233
ven...@crd.ge.com
W
VBC ----- YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING!
AS BHARAT POINTED OUT HE GOT A RAW DEAL.
HE IS STILL ONE OF THE FITTEST TRUE SPORTSMAN I HAVE DEALT WITH. HE CAME ,
ATLEAST TRIED, ON HIS OWN WITH SHEAR TALENT, AMIDST ALL REGIONAL AND COMMUNAL
FAVORATISMS GOT INTO A BAD STREAK OF FORM AT THE CRUCIAL MOMENTS DUE TO SOME
PERSONAL TRAGEDY. HE , IN MY OPINION IS A CLASSIC CASE OF AN UNLUCKY GUY WHO
DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE IN THIS SHIT LIST AT ALL.
VENKAT.
EXIT
BYE
In article <44...@tau-ceti.isc-br.com>, muthu...@access.isc-br.com (M.R.
Sudhama Gopalan
>In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, writes:
>|>
>|> Pronob Roy
>|> Parthasarathy Sharma
>|> V.B.Chandrasekhar
>|> Rudra Pratap Singh
>|>
Kamalapuram
: Pronob Roy
: Parthasarathy Sharma
: V.B.Chandrasekhar
: Rudra Pratap Singh
: Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
: since I started watching cricket) for India.
: Give us your thoughts.
Here's my list. Hope it helps:
1) Ghulam Parkar
2) Surender Khanna
3) Bharat Reddy
4) Suru Nayak
5) Sudhir Naik (no relation to no. 4)
6) B. Arun
7) Gurcharan Singh
8) Sanjeev Sharma
9) Ranjendra Singh Ghai
10) Yograj Singh
11) Yajurvendra Singh
12) T.A. Sekhar (not that bad but wasn't good either)
13) Gopal Sharma
14) Narendra Hirwani (was a 3 test wonder)
15) Ashok Mankad (had a couple of 90's but was a very poor fielder)
16) Raman Lamba
17) Narasimha Rao (Yes! unfortunately played for India)
18) Pankaj Roy (but for the record stand with vinoo mankad had nothing else
to show. Was a complete disaster thereon.)
19) Maharaja of Vijayanagaram (Vizzy)
20) Deepak Shodhan. (completely disappered from the scene after historic
test debut. He is one of the rare Indians to score a century on debut)
21) Rashid Patel
There are no. of old players who were more miserable than the above. Can't
remember many of them? May be someone can.
Cheers,
Sriram
Robin
> Hi:
> We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
> from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
> player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
> country please). I thought of the following names
>
Suru Nayak - He would never have been picked for the disastrous 1974 (?)
England
tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
disgraced captain and country by being caught shoplifting socks. I am not
sure though that he played any tests.
Vizzy (Maharaja of Vizianagram) - He was not even a decent cricketer at the
club
level, but was chosen over the likes of Vijay Merchant, C.K. Nayadu, Lala
Amarnath to captain the Indian squad to England in 1936 (?). His
sponsorship of the game and princely title were the reasons. He did have
the decency to step down (I think he feigned injury) in the only Test in
favour of the vice-captain Nayadu (?). He was later Board president and a
dreadful expert commentator for AIR radio broadcasts in the 1960s.
Maybe there should be a thread on the most undeserving captains: India
once had four in a five-test series against W.I. in the fifties; I think
the one in which Weekes hit all those consecutive centuries.
Chandrashekhar S Damle
In article <RSahasranam-...@robinsahasranam-331735.worldbank.org>,
Robin <RSaha...@WORLDBANK.ORG> wrote:
>In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
>(NRS) wrote:
>
>> We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>> from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>> player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>> country please). I thought of the following names
>>
>England
>tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
I think you are refering to Sudhir Naik - a more than fair performer on
the domestic circuit if I recall correctly. Suru Nayak wasn't even playing
first class cricket at the time.
While we are discussing the worst Indian cricketers, how about starting a
thread about the most over-rated Indian cricketers of all time
(has this been discussed before?) ?
The first name that comes to mind is Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi. I'll admit
that he was a good fielder. But most everyone seems to think he was a great
batsman and an even greater captain. In my opinion, you can't be classified
as a great captain unless you win several Test series, and as far as I recall
Tiger did not win a single one.
-Shekhar
SANDIP DATTA
> In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
> (NRS) wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>> We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>> from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>> player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>> country please). I thought of the following names
>>
> Suru Nayak - He would never have been picked for the disastrous 1974 (?)
> England
> tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
> disgraced captain and country by being caught shoplifting socks. I am not
> sure though that he played any tests.
>
actually it was sudhir naik (note the spelling), suru came much later.
sudhir had a fair tour (except in test where his best score was
77).
As for shoplifting for socks goes, i think gavasker mentioned the episode
impartially in his book 'sunny days'. let us not judge him on that episode.
remember he was accused of shoplifting a pair of socks (he got 25 but
paid for only 24 pairs).. but was not convicted..
It hardly seems plausible that a person will filch a pair of socks when
he has already paid for 24 pairs. also it was blown way out of proportions
by the indian press.
that tour was a disgrace. wadekar was inefficient and indulged in groupism
with bedi and co. they misbehaved at the party hosted by the indian high
commission there, and most of the players (great wadekar included) was not on
talking terms with each other.
it is ironic that wadekar now insists on discipline, considering what he did
in the summer of 1974.fittingly he got a very hostile reception at bombay
after the tour. He was dumped after the tour and did not play test cricket again.
So please keep your judgements to yourself before you check all the facts.
-s
Ranbhise, Dinesh R.
>
>In article <RSahasranam-...@robinsahasranam-331735.worldbank.org>,
>Robin <RSaha...@WORLDBANK.ORG> wrote:
>>In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
>>(NRS) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi:
>>> We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>>> from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>>> player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>>> country please). I thought of the following names
>>>
>>Suru Nayak - He would never have been picked for the disastrous 1974 (?)
>>England
>>tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
>
>I think you are refering to Sudhir Naik - a more than fair performer on
>the domestic circuit if I recall correctly. Suru Nayak wasn't even playing
>first class cricket at the time.
Was he not the same preson who was involved in a disdainful incident
in a department store in England!
>
>While we are discussing the worst Indian cricketers, how about starting a
>thread about the most over-rated Indian cricketers of all time
>(has this been discussed before?) ?
>
>The first name that comes to mind is Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi. I'll admit
>that he was a good fielder. But most everyone seems to think he was a great
>batsman and an even greater captain. In my opinion, you can't be classified
>as a great captain unless you win several Test series, and as far as I recall
>Tiger did not win a single one.
=======================================================================
Pataudi was never a great captain.He never used to mix with player except
few of them.He was not able to bring true team spirit in the side!
>
>
>-Shekhar
Ananth Krishnan
>
>
>
>W
>VBC ----- YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING!
>AS BHARAT POINTED OUT HE GOT A RAW DEAL.
>HE IS STILL ONE OF THE FITTEST TRUE SPORTSMAN I HAVE DEALT WITH. HE CAME ,
>ATLEAST TRIED, ON HIS OWN WITH SHEAR TALENT, AMIDST ALL REGIONAL AND COMMUNAL
>FAVORATISMS GOT INTO A BAD STREAK OF FORM AT THE CRUCIAL MOMENTS DUE TO SOME
>PERSONAL TRAGEDY. HE , IN MY OPINION IS A CLASSIC CASE OF AN UNLUCKY GUY WHO
>DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE IN THIS SHIT LIST AT ALL.
>VENKAT.
>
>
>EXIT
>BYE
Ouch, that hurts !! Lower case, please !!
Peace,
Ananth
S. Macwan ARC/COBE (301)-513-7818
Another name which comes to mind is Dhiraj Parsana from Gujarat.
He had played, I think, couple of test matches against West Indies in
late 70's and he was a total failure. He was suppose to be an all
rouder, medium pace bowling.
Snehavadan Macwan
>
>Cheers,
>
>Sriram
>
Robin
> Suru Nayak - He would never have been picked for the disastrous 1974 (?)
> England
> tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
> disgraced captain and country by being caught shoplifting socks. I am not
> sure though that he played any tests.
>
Several netters have pointed out that the culprit was Sudhir Nayak (or
Naik) and not Surendra (Suru) Nayak who played around the same time. Sudhir
was I believe an opening batsman, while Suru was an all-rounder who bowled
fastish leg-breaks (leg-cutters?). My apologies to Suru for wrongly
maligning him.
Robin
Rao) wrote:
> >Thes players would qualify as the bigger busts of all-time (at least
> >since I started watching cricket) for India.
>
> What exactly do you mean by "a player who was a big bust?" Do you
> mean someone who didn't make use of his talent (sadly, one of my
> favorites, Brijesh Patel comes here); if you mean someone good enough
> to barely make the team and get dropped, thats hardly fair. Must be
> many 1 or 2 test wonders in Test cricket.
>
> How about this -- someone who played at least 10 Tests and made no
> material contribution?
>
> Bharat
Ashok Mankad comes to mind here. Phenomenally succesful in domestic critic,
but a complete bust in Tests. However, promoting him to opener, something
he never did for Bombay and West Zone, was largely to blame.
R. Bharat Rao
In article <2ip5pr$7...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, csd...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Chandrashekhar S Damle) writes:
>While we are discussing the worst Indian cricketers, how about starting a
>thread about the most over-rated Indian cricketers of all time
>(has this been discussed before?) ?
>
>The first name that comes to mind is Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi. I'll admit
>that he was a good fielder. But most everyone seems to think he was a great
>batsman and an even greater captain. In my opinion, you can't be classified
>as a great captain unless you win several Test series, and as far as I recall
>Tiger did not win a single one.
First of all, the Tiger had to have been a brilliant bat. I could not
even tie my shoelaces the one day I had a patch over my eye; the man
scored Test centuries.
OK, lets ignore the eye bit, and judge him without taking into account
his great handicap. What one has to realize is that when Pataudi came
into the Test captaincy, India was absolutely reeling. We had won
just one Test (I think) so far. Under MAK, they won their first away
Test, tied the mighty Australians at home -- more than anything, Pat
made Indian supporters believe that India could win. Read Mihir
Bose's "A History of Indian Cricket" (you didn't think I was around
then, did you:-) -- actually, it is true that because of his marriage
to one of the most beautiful Indian actresses, and his princely
heritage, MAK has been lionized. Throw in the determination to excel
against a tragic accident, it is no wonder that the Tiger is larger
than life.
Yes, he had several flaws as a captain, many of which were covered by
his dash, but he did things in style, and we Indians, have always
preferred style and flair, over gritty substance (a quick straw poll
-- only those who followed cricket in the 1970's may participate --
when Gavaskar and Vishwanath were both playing, in the mid to late
70's whom did you like more?? I wager, that for most nonBombayites,
the answer at THAT time, would have been Vishwanath -- I preferred
Vishy too, and it was with the benifit of hindsight did I realize that
Gavaskar was the better bat, and would have been better even had he
retired at the same time Vishwanath did).
>-Shekhar
R. Bharat Rao
In article <2ip70k$e...@hubcap.clemson.edu>, sda...@eng.clemson.edu (SANDIP DATTA) writes:
>As for shoplifting for socks goes, i think gavasker mentioned the episode
>impartially in his book 'sunny days'. let us not judge him on that episode.
>remember he was accused of shoplifting a pair of socks (he got 25 but
>paid for only 24 pairs).. but was not convicted..
>It hardly seems plausible that a person will filch a pair of socks when
>he has already paid for 24 pairs. also it was blown way out of proportions
>by the indian press.
The poor guy was railroaded into "confessing" based on terrible advice.
>that tour was a disgrace. wadekar was inefficient and indulged in groupism
>with bedi and co. they misbehaved at the party hosted by the indian high
>commission there, and most of the players (great wadekar included) was not on
>talking terms with each other.
Read the book, "History of Indian Cricket" by Mihir Bose. You have
facts quite wrong. The Indian High Commission was totally at fault here.
>it is ironic that wadekar now insists on discipline, considering what he did
>in the summer of 1974.fittingly he got a very hostile reception at bombay
>after the tour. He was dumped after the tour and did not play
> test cricket again.
Actually, I think that was the absolute worst injustice perpetrated by
the Indian Board -- yes, even worse than the dropping of Amarnath.
Wadekar was made a scapegoat, and unceremoniously stripped of his
captaincy and dropped. This let the Board deflect criticism from
itself, and the apalling greed that had made them schedule this tour
at a time, when India was set up to fail.
You speak as if Wadekar was all to blame -- India was thoroughly
outplayed, totally demoralized by the lack of support from the Board,
before, during, and after the tour. Wadekar was thrown to the wolves.
Completely and totally disgusting.
The *only* one who came out looking any good was Wadekar who had the
grace to retire; he was India's premier lefthanded bat, and could have
played for many more years, a shrewd and brilliant captain -- God, he
won 3 straight series and lost one -- if you are going to blame him
for this loss, you may as well credit him for those wins. At that
time India had never won a Test series, and he goes 3-1 in his first
4? And he deserves to be dropped, that too after losing a series
*anyone* with an ounce of cricketing brain (this obviously leaves out
the Indian Board at that time) -- anyone would have known that touring
England during the wet and cold season is setting yourself up, that
too when the players don't have an allowance necessary to feed
themselves???
Dropping Wadekar as captain was disgraceful, but just possibly
warranted if "he had lost the confidence of his players." Dropping
him as a player was unspeakably viscious and descpicable -- the single
worst injustice perpetrated by the BCCI.
>So please keep your judgements to yourself before you check all the facts.
"Physician, heal thyself." seems appropriate here.
>SANDIP DATTA Phone: 803-653-7716 (Home)
Bharat
Neeran M. Karnik
>Now wait a minute. Lamba though not extremely successfull was not a failure
>either. He has a century and a score in the 90's in one dayers. How many
>Indian Batsmen have centuries in One dayers???
> Compare that guy to W V Raman. What does he have... Zero Zero and
>more zero's.
Err... to be fair, Raman ALSO has a century and a couple of other
big scores in one-dayers. And those scores were made with FAR more
stylish batting than Raman Lamba's hoiks, IMHO :-) I don't think
either of them qualifies for the title in the subject....
>Manish Tuli
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Neeran M. Karnik | #1 fan of Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar on r.s.c. :-> |
| Dept. of CompSci.| "Pele in football, Becker in tennis, Ali in |
| U of Minnesota | boxing. Sachin is in that league." - Tony Cozier |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ranbhise, Dinesh R.
>In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
>(NRS) wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>> We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>> from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>> player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>> country please). I thought of the following names
>>
>Suru Nayak - He would never have been picked for the disastrous 1974 (?)
>England
>tour in which India scored 42 at Oval, but for Wadekar's insistence. And he
>disgraced captain and country by being caught shoplifting socks. I am not
>sure though that he played any tests.
He did play 4 or 5 test matches.
==========================================================================
>
>Vizzy (Maharaja of Vizianagram) - He was not even a decent cricketer at the
>club
>level, but was chosen over the likes of Vijay Merchant, C.K. Nayadu, Lala
>Amarnath to captain the Indian squad to England in 1936 (?). His
>sponsorship of the game and princely title were the reasons. He did have
>the decency to step down (I think he feigned injury) in the only Test in
>favour of the vice-captain Nayadu (?). He was later Board president and a
>dreadful expert commentator for AIR radio broadcasts in the 1960s.
>
===========================================================================
Maharaja did not feign injury at any time and he did infact play in
all the three test matches.No wonder India lost 2-0 inspite of the
fact that test matches were limited to 3 days.One of the tests of washed
on on the third afternoon with India on 390-5 only 32 runs ahead of
England's first innings.
======================================================================
> Maybe there should be a thread on the most undeserving captains: India
>once had four in a five-test series against W.I. in the fifties; I think
>the one in which Weekes hit all those consecutive centuries.
=======================================================================
In 1948-9 India did well to draw 4 of the five tests against WestIndies.
Everton Weeks scored 5 hundred in five innings and was run out 90 in his
sixth consecative inning.India lost the 4th test at madras by innings.
However in the final test at Bonbay India needed 361 to win on the final
day and with 2.5 minutes left,India were 355-8 with Phadkar going great
gun on 37- He was in excellent form and had hit couple of sixes.
Unfortunately umpire in the excitement pulled the stumps on the fifth ball
of the over with 2.5 minutes to go.So the match was drawn with india denied
7 balls!(IN those days there were no mandatory overs)((
So I suppose it was not a bad series for India!Remember that the following year
they levelled the series against England 2-2 in the summmer of 1950.
Uday Rajan
mu <ven...@happy.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>Parthasarathy Sharma did have a go in the 1974-5 WI in India series.
>Don't remember how many Tests he played in that series, but i do remember
>a very creditable 49 and 51 in one of them (1st or 2nd Test maybe).
He played two Tests that series, the 2nd and the 3rd. More than his
batting, I'm afraid, I remember the very convenient (for India)
stomach upset he had on the last day of the Calcutta Test, which
allowed 12th man Eknath Solkar to field for him in the post lunch
session. Even with Prassanna and Bedi in the team, Sharma was arguably
the worst fielder in the side. I remain convinced that this stomach upset
was a figment of Tiger Pataudi's imagination ... well, even if it was for
real, it makes a better story that way :-)
>Ah! what a series. :-)
What a series, indeed. IMHO the best Test series India has ever been
involved in. More than anything else, that series made me a Tiger fan.
Someone mentioned that he was an overrated captain. Not in this series.
He believed India could win, and was prepared to take some risks to get
there. A case in point was the last morning of the Calcutta Test. I forget
now how many the West Indies needed to win --- 250 or thereabouts. Lloyd
was batting, and had been in murderous mood throughout the series. Chandra
was bowling, and Lloyd struck him for three fours in two overs. At the rate
he was going, it looked as if the match would be over (i.e. India would have
lost all momentum) if Lloyd stayed around for another half-hour or so,
especially with Chandra bowling his usual loose ball or two per over. The
radio commentators (darn, I don't remember, but I think Jaisimha was the
expert --- no mean strategist himself) were wondering whether it was wise
to leave Chandra on at that critical stage of the game. Tiger
stayed with Chandra, and in the next over Chandra produced a magical
delivery to bowl Lloyd.
One wicket doesn't prove anything, of course. Tiger didn't have a
great win-loss record as captain, but OTOH his resources were pretty limited
too (other than the fabulous quartet, of course --- but they weren't
guaranteed matchwinners on foreign soil either). He was able to get the
best out of his team and, on occasion, get the team to play above itself,
both qualities of a good captain.
Anurag Bist
>First of all, the Tiger had to have been a brilliant bat. I could not
>even tie my shoelaces the one day I had a patch over my eye; the man
>scored Test centuries.
>against a tragic accident, it is no wonder that the Tiger is larger
>than life.
Hell..handicap or not - he did get the prize catch of
(arguably) the sexiest film star of those days (Sharmila Tagore)!!
Manish Tuli
: bt...@csws16.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
: >Now wait a minute. Lamba though not extremely successfull was not a failure
: >either. He has a century and a score in the 90's in one dayers. How many
: >Indian Batsmen have centuries in One dayers???
: > Compare that guy to W V Raman. What does he have... Zero Zero and
: >more zero's.
: Err... to be fair, Raman ALSO has a century and a couple of other
: big scores in one-dayers. And those scores were made with FAR more
: stylish batting than Raman Lamba's hoiks, IMHO :-) I don't think
: either of them qualifies for the title in the subject....
Yeah but W V Raman has so many zero's to go with his name
On top of that the number of chances W V Raman has got to play can not
even be compared to Lamba's.
Lamba was also a very exciting batsman to watch. He scored most
of his runs at a reasonable pace.
Michael Chang
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hemant Kanitkar
>Shivalkar
>Salogonkar
>should also be included in this list.
Hemant Kanitkar only played 2 tests, and had 2 50s in those 4 innings. He had
a very successful first class career as an opening batsman for Maharashtra.
Shivalkar, one of the greatest spinners ever, never played test cricket.
Salgaonkar (Correct speling), who according to Gavaskar was the fastest bowler
in India, has never played test cricket either. A strong, muscular, and big
bowler, Salgaonkar had a very intimidating style, and did very well on the
dull wickets of India. He would have done very well in England and west Indies.
So, you are wrong on all three accounts. And I hope it is just a coincidence
that all the three players you mentioned are Marathas.
MC
Shaji Karunakaran (0004 emos),industrial placement
>Now wait a minute. Lamba though not extremely successfull was not a failure
>either. He has a century and a score in the 90's in one dayers. How many
>Indian Batsmen have centuries in One dayers???
> Compare that guy to W V Raman. What does he have... Zero Zero and
>more zero's.
If I remember correctly, W V Raman also has scored a brisk century (114) in
a one day international vs South Africa which India won (92 series in S.Africa).
Yes Raman has been a failure most of the time, but I still think he is a
good batsman (Srikaant style) but couldn't produce the goods when he was expected
to. He was treated very leniently by the selectors and given every opportunity
to succeed because the selectors were well aware of his potential.
Shaji.
Manish Tuli
: >Sudip K. Mazumder (mazu...@acsu.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: If I remember correctly, W V Raman also has scored a brisk century (114) in
: a one day international vs South Africa which India won (92 series in S.Africa).
: Yes Raman has been a failure most of the time, but I still think he is a
: good batsman (Srikaant style) but couldn't produce the goods when he was expected
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Srikanth style ????????? This must be the worst joke I have ever heard
W V Raman is as much like Srikanth as chalk is to cheese.
Gimme a break!!! Srikanth as a batsman was a class in its own. and
W V Raman .... well his class I wouldnt even want to mention.
: to. He was treated very leniently by the selectors and given every opportunity
: to succeed because the selectors were well aware of his potential.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What potential???? If a person has potential that would come out in
even half the number of games he played. He already got far too many chances
than he should have. The guy from Madras who really had potential and was not
given enough chances was V B Chandershekhar. Now that ws a gutsy batsman who
was shaping like srikanth but never made it.
Geoff Bethell
bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Srikanth style ????????? This must be the worst joke I have ever heard
>W V Raman is as much like Srikanth as chalk is to cheese.
> Gimme a break!!! Srikanth as a batsman was a class in its own. and
>W V Raman .... well his class I wouldnt even want to mention.
Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
place?
*************************************************************************
* Geoff Bethell SOUTH AFRICA to win NEED *
* 22 runs off 1 ball *
* *
* ELECTRONIC SCOREBOARD, SCG. WC92 *
*************************************************************************
J Sreedhar
|> In Article <2jb1c6$r...@ysics.physics.sunysb.edu>
|> bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
|> his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
|> place?
|>
--
yup, he is quite talented, but failed to click
when he got a chance to represent India. He did
top-score once with a 90-plus inning against WI.
He also bowls off-spin.
CHEERS!!
--Sreedhar
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Coordinated Science Laboratory,
157 C&SRL, 1308 W.Main St.,
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Tel. (217) 333-7541
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Murali Cotah
Sreedhar
>>
W.V. Raman started his carrer as a left arm spinner.
cotah
Bharat Shah
>
>In article <009795C5...@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu (NRS) writes:
>>Hi:
>>We have threads about who was the best Batsman/Bowler/Fielder
>>from whatever country etc. But I thought who was the worst
>>player to play for India. (Give the name for your favorite
>>country please). I thought of the following names
>
>>Parthasarathy Sharma
>>V.B.Chandrasekhar
>>Rudra Pratap Singh
>
Narsimha Rao
Suru Nayak
Padmanabhan Ramasundaram
In article <2jj688$2...@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz>,
Geoff Bethell <srl...@lhn.gns.cri.nz> wrote:
>In Article <2jb1c6$r...@ysics.physics.sunysb.edu>
>bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Srikanth style ????????? This must be the worst joke I have ever heard
>>W V Raman is as much like Srikanth as chalk is to cheese.
>> Gimme a break!!! Srikanth as a batsman was a class in its own. and
>>W V Raman .... well his class I wouldnt even want to mention.
>
>Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
>century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
>his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
>place?
>
Incidentally, there was another triple centurion in the *same* game! Match
was between TamilNadu and Hyderabad, i think. Azeem scored the other triple
century. Hyderabad won by first innings lead as far as i can remember.
paddu.
Anand Jagannathan
The match in which Ramamn made 300+ was against Goa , the other triple centurion being
Arjan Kripal Singh. Tamil Nadu's total in that innings was more than 900.
Neeran M. Karnik
>In Article <2jb1c6$r...@ysics.physics.sunysb.edu>
>bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Srikanth style ????????? This must be the worst joke I have ever heard
>>W V Raman is as much like Srikanth as chalk is to cheese.
>> Gimme a break!!! Srikanth as a batsman was a class in its own. and
>>W V Raman .... well his class I wouldnt even want to mention.
>Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
>century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
>his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
>place?
Oh yes, Raman was definitely worth selecting, for the sheer volume
of runs he makes in domestic cricket, and the style in which he
makes them. He remains among the most productive and graceful
batsmen in Indian cricket, but to the dismay of his many admirers,
has not done much at international level. Now Srikkanth was never as
productive (or, IMHO, stylish) as Raman, so their comparison is
indeed strange...
Manish Tuli
: In Article <2jb1c6$r...@ysics.physics.sunysb.edu>
: bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: > Srikanth style ????????? This must be the worst joke I have ever heard
: >W V Raman is as much like Srikanth as chalk is to cheese.
: > Gimme a break!!! Srikanth as a batsman was a class in its own. and
: >W V Raman .... well his class I wouldnt even want to mention.
: Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
: century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
: his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
: place?
Now sir, It seems you are not aware of the standard of Indian Domestic
cricket. Scoring Centuries or double or any amount of runs in domestic cricket
does not mean that the guy is even test class. There the pithches are mostly
so much in the favor of batsmen and the bowling is really pathetic. And
some of the ranji teams are so bad that their attacks would be as hard to
play as any average highschool attack.
S Govindarajan
>In article <2jj688$2...@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz>, srl...@lhn.gns.cri.nz (Geoff Bethell) writes:
>yup, he is quite talented, but failed to click
>when he got a chance to represent India. He did
>top-score once with a 90-plus inning against WI.
He is not quite the failure he is supposed to be. He has had 96
innings against NZ in NZ (Vs Hadlee, Morrison, Snedden and Chatfield)
when all others (Azharuddin included) failed. He has done reasonably
well against WI in the 1987 series (he got a life ridden 95 in an
one-day and also a classic 83 at Chepauk on his debut). Further, he
had been batting well in both Zimbabwe and South Africa (the only one
to get a 100 in a one-day international - a matchwinning effort) when
he was unfortunately injured. He has also performed very creditably in
the various tours he has gone in, and also against the many visiting
teams he played in India with. IMHO, he hasn't done anything wrong
until now, but was unfortunate enough to be around when we have a very
talented batting lineup. I think his recent run of poor scores is more
to do with discouragement than a lack of talent. He is very elegant
(compare with Kambli :-), and has the temperment to play a long
innings, but has some technical deficiencies. However, he has learnt
to play within his limitations.
>CHEERS!!
>--Sreedhar
Govind
Geoff Bethell
kar...@cs.umn.edu (Neeran M. Karnik) writes:
> Oh yes, Raman was definitely worth selecting, for the sheer volume
> of runs he makes in domestic cricket, and the style in which he
> makes them.
Sounds like a temperament problem to me. It's amazing how you can get on
a downward roller-coaster when things go badly. From what you say about
him, it wouldn't surprise, surely, if he was given another go in a year or
two, provided his form holds up? This time, knowing what to expect, he may
make it. The selectors have obviously done him a favour by letting him off
that roller-coaster. I'm always reading posts about who should and who
should not open for India. It seems a problem spot. They are obviously
looking for someone who can kill the problem stone dead rather than using
makeshifts.
Neeran M. Karnik
>>Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
>>century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
>>his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
>>place?
>>
> Incidentally, there was another triple centurion in the *same* game! Match
>was between TamilNadu and Hyderabad, i think. Azeem scored the other triple
>century. Hyderabad won by first innings lead as far as i can remember.
Nope, the match was between TNadu and Goa, and yes, there was
another 300 in the same *innings*, by Arjan Kripal Singh. TN scored
912-6 decl.
>paddu.
Neeran M. Karnik
>> Oh yes, Raman was definitely worth selecting, for the sheer volume
>> of runs he makes in domestic cricket, and the style in which he
>> makes them.
> Sounds like a temperament problem to me. It's amazing how you can get on
> a downward roller-coaster when things go badly. From what you say about
> him, it wouldn't surprise, surely, if he was given another go in a year or
> two, provided his form holds up? This time, knowing what to expect, he may
> make it. The selectors have obviously done him a favour by letting him off
It's certainly not impossible that he'll get another chance although
he's not his usual spectacular self this season in the Ranjis. The
problem is definitely temperamental, IMHO. In fact, you might say
he's a mini-replica of David Ivon Gower :-) The same phrases that
were used to describe Gower keep recurring in references to Raman -
"laid-back", "lazy elegance", etc. Of course, Gower still managed to
make a few runs in Tests, didn't he? :-) But Raman's been a
frustrating disappointment - according to the stats I have (on
CricInfo), he's played 8 Tests and made 367 runs @30.58 - not a good
record for an opener. Now another point is that Raman's close to 29
years old. Competitors like Jadeja are much younger.
BTW, Gautham must be busy (typing in stuff for us! - thanks as
always, G) since he's not responded on this thread, despite being a
big Raman fan :-)
> that roller-coaster. I'm always reading posts about who should and who
> should not open for India. It seems a problem spot. They are obviously
> looking for someone who can kill the problem stone dead rather than using
> makeshifts.
Considering that they're presisting with Prabhakar, it doesn't seem
like the selectors are thinking too far into the future. Keeping a
winning combination is fine, but there's got to be some stability at
the top of the order, and Prabhakar isn't a long-term prospect from
that standpoint.
Incidentally, India has *historically* had problems finding
specialist openers. Until he advent of Gavaskar, noone looked upon
the opener's position as a serious job. Inevitably, the openers were
middle-order bats pushed up to open the innings. Even the
much-acclaimed pair of Vijay Merchant and Mushtaq Ali were both
middle-order bats to begin with.
Mayank Gour
J Sreedhar <js...@gayatri.csl.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>In article <2jj688$2...@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz>, srl...@lhn.gns.cri.nz (Geoff Bethell) writes:
>|> In Article <2jb1c6$r...@ysics.physics.sunysb.edu>
>|> bt...@csws10.ic.sunysb.edu (Manish Tuli) writes:
>|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> |> Browsing through Wisden recently I noticed that WV Raman has made a triple
>|> century in 1st class cricket. Anyone who can do that is no mug. Whatever
>|> his record for India may be, surely he was worth selecting in the first
>|> place?
>|> Geoff Bethell
>|>
Geoff, if that were the criteria for selection, then there is at least one other
dude in Indian domestic cricket (other than Manjrekar), who has scored a triple
century in the Ranji games--he is Abdul Azeem! Azeem is from Hyderabad, a city
to which lot of us regulars on RSC belong :) :). Of course Azhar is also from
Hyderabad---A great city :) :).
Azeem has been playing for Hyderabad for about
7-8 years, actually it could be more. He is an elegant opening batsman. Some of
his run-getting strokes are absolutely breath-taking! He has been one of the
most prolific scorers for Hyderabad in the past few years. He is not at all a
slow scoring batsman, and that I think has put him in a lot of trouble many
times. The one thing that he lacks, IMO, is 'application'. Of course one can
argue that since he has scored so many centuries, there is no reason to doubt
his ability to apply himself. But that is the 'aura' he carries about him! :)
At a time when V. B. Chandrashekar was selected to play for India (in NZ was it)
I felt that the Indian selectors should have given Azeem a chance! But....:)
Of course if you do follow the Ranji trophy knock-outs for the next month or
so, then you will realise that Azeem will star in Hyderabad's Ranji triumph!
:) :)
Since the services of Azharuddin are required by the Indian team, there will be
a lot of load on Azeem's shoulders and I am sure he will make all us
Hyderabadis proud!!!
>--
>yup, he is quite talented, but failed to click
>when he got a chance to represent India. He did
>top-score once with a 90-plus inning against WI.
Was it not against NZ??? My memory is losing me ....:( :(
>
>He also bowls off-spin.
He is a left arm spinner, right??
>
>CHEERS!!
>--Sreedhar
>
Peace,
Mayank [Cheering Azeem on... ] Gour.
--
"For those who know that Azhar is great, no explanation is necessary,
For those who don't, no explanation is possible."
e-mail : Mayan...@asu.edu 'or' go...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu
Cricket in Jan, in 70-75 deg 'chill', that is what I love about Arizona.
Gautham N
=
= It's certainly not impossible that he'll get another chance although
= he's not his usual spectacular self this season in the Ranjis. The
= problem is definitely temperamental, IMHO. In fact, you might say
= he's a mini-replica of David Ivon Gower :-) The same phrases that
= were used to describe Gower keep recurring in references to Raman -
= "laid-back", "lazy elegance", etc. Of course, Gower still managed to
= make a few runs in Tests, didn't he? :-) But Raman's been a
I wouldn't dare make that comparison. Gower was definitely a few notches
above Raman in style and substance. Raman can be at best compared to
Kambli (Here comes the flames...). Both have similar styles, including
the way they handle moving ball outside the offstump :o)
= frustrating disappointment - according to the stats I have (on
= CricInfo), he's played 8 Tests and made 367 runs @30.58 - not a good
= record for an opener. Now another point is that Raman's close to 29
= years old. Competitors like Jadeja are much younger.
=
= BTW, Gautham must be busy (typing in stuff for us! - thanks as
= always, G) since he's not responded on this thread, despite being a
= big Raman fan :-)
=
Hold on...I think I should sue you for spreading canards about me or
better I should get someone to write a real offensive stinker to you !!
Busy or not, I had to answer this...
I never claimed that I was a big fan of Raman. All I was saying is
that he should have been given a decent chance. The sad story is that
when he was in good nick, there was no way he could have got into the
team and when given the chance (by that time his confidence was all
time low - with newspaper reports predicting that he would be left out
for the Hero Cup - but then thats no excuse !!), he failed miserably.
He should have been left out after his show in the Hero Cup and I had
supported that.
But what I was against that people went about belittling his career
in totality, inspite of his having a 80+ knock against WI (ok, that
was chancy) and 100+ against SA (I saw that, it was a brilliant display)
and few 50+ knocks. I would say he had consistently performed at some
level until the Hero Cup matches.
Ciao,
- gautham -
Neeran M. Karnik
> I wouldn't dare make that comparison. Gower was definitely a few notches
> above Raman in style and substance. Raman can be at best compared to
> Kambli (Here comes the flames...). Both have similar styles, including
> the way they handle moving ball outside the offstump :o)
:-) I never intended to say Raman = Gower, so I mentioned
he's a MINI-replica of Gower :-) While I was never a Raman fan myself, I
was certainly one of those who was frustrated by his inability to
establish himself. A Gower is too much to ask for, but a mini-Gower, he
might have been.
> = BTW, Gautham must be busy (typing in stuff for us! - thanks as
> = always, G) since he's not responded on this thread, despite being a
> = big Raman fan :-)
> =
> Hold on...I think I should sue you for spreading canards about me or
> better I should get someone to write a real offensive stinker to you !!
> Busy or not, I had to answer this...
> I never claimed that I was a big fan of Raman. All I was saying is
Ok, sorry, sorry :-) I misinterpreted you, I suppose. But cool
down, it's not like I accused you of being a Shastri-Fan :-)
> But what I was against that people went about belittling his career
> in totality, inspite of his having a 80+ knock against WI (ok, that
> was chancy) and 100+ against SA (I saw that, it was a brilliant display)
> and few 50+ knocks. I would say he had consistently performed at some
> level until the Hero Cup matches.
I don't know if I'm belittling his career as such, but I do think
he wasn't a success by Test standards. Sure, he can tell his kids about
the time he flogged RSA for a 100, or that 90+ against NZ, etc. But he did
play at least 8 Tests, and a number of ODIs, and for a *specialist*
*opener*, his performance left much to be desired. There were too few
bright sparks in that time, to justify continued faith in him. While
Kambli's style may be similar, he has at least justified his place in the
side consistently so far. Kambli also has temperament problems, but those
are at the other end of the spectrum from Raman's (or Gower's!).
> - gautham -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neeran Karnik ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dept. of Computer Science, | Email: kar...@cs.umn.edu
University of Minnesota | kar...@staff.tc.umn.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NEWS FLASH!!
Today the East German pole-vault champion became the West
German pole-vault champion.
Chinna Kozhandhai
> I don't know if I'm belittling his career as such, but I do think
>he wasn't a success by Test standards. Sure, he can tell his kids about
>the time he flogged RSA for a 100, or that 90+ against NZ, etc. But he did
>play at least 8 Tests, and a number of ODIs, and for a *specialist*
>*opener*, his performance left much to be desired. There were too few
>bright sparks in that time, to justify continued faith in him. While
won't say much on this - I will merely present the
approximate statistics. Raman, after 8 Tests, had an average of 31 as
an opener. Sidhu, after much more than 8 Tests, had a sub-30 average
as an opener before the 1993 England series. Now given those two, and
given Ramans *relatively* good performance in RSA (albeit mainly in
ODI's), how can one justify playing Sidhu instead of Raman?
Of course, I know stats arent everythign at all, but if Raman's
*performance* left much to be desired, then Sidhu's performance was
even worse, no?
Incidentally, I am a fan of neither, and certianly am sick to the
stomach at the thought of comparing Raman and Gower :)
Cheers,
Rohan
-- Hong Kong for World Cup 1996!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*****************************************************************************
Manchester United Football Club * INDIA - World Sixes Plate Champions 1993
_______________________________ * - Hero Cup Champions 1993 !!!!!!!!
Leading the way in the nineties * ________________________________________
1990 F.A.Cup & Charity Shield *
1991 Cup Winners Cup * Ramlal Nikhanj Kapil Dev -
1992 League Cup & Super Cup * 432 - I await his reply :-)
1993 League & Charity Shield * Mohammed Azharuddin -
1994 Treble + 1995 Euro Cup?? :) * 3957 in 87-3 @ 47.11 : Latest 152
*****************************************************************************
Rohan Chandran roh...@leland.stanford.EDU
Mayank Gour
[ Comparision to Gower deleted]
[Also claims of sueing each other :) :)]
>
> Ok, sorry, sorry :-) I misinterpreted you, I suppose. But cool
>down, it's not like I accused you of being a Shastri-Fan :-)
Neeran, now now now, here you go overboard :) :).
In trying to appease a Raman-Fan, you have unknowlingly rekindled the fire
inside a Shastri_Fan :) :) :). So, here I go......
Shastri-Fan, I guess I
could qualify for that 'sobriquet'. Neeran, Shastri may not have the 'style'
of Raman, but then I know that he has a better record as an opener! You cannot
deny him the credit! Raman was stylish, may even have been a 'mini-Gower', but
he surely was not half as good an opener as Shastri.
Do you see a flame here Neeran??? :) :)
>
>> But what I was against that people went about belittling his career
>> in totality, inspite of his having a 80+ knock against WI (ok, that
>> was chancy) and 100+ against SA (I saw that, it was a brilliant display)
>> and few 50+ knocks. I would say he had consistently performed at some
>> level until the Hero Cup matches.
>
> I don't know if I'm belittling his career as such, but I do think
>he wasn't a success by Test standards. Sure, he can tell his kids about
>the time he flogged RSA for a 100, or that 90+ against NZ, etc. But he did
>play at least 8 Tests, and a number of ODIs, and for a *specialist*
>*opener*, his performance left much to be desired. There were too few
>bright sparks in that time, to justify continued faith in him. While
>Kambli's style may be similar, he has at least justified his place in the
>side consistently so far. Kambli also has temperament problems, but those
>are at the other end of the spectrum from Raman's (or Gower's!).
I am not trying to belittle Raman's career here, I actually thought of posting
after I read your post. I for one do agree with you that Raman did get a raw
deal. He shall go down as a victim of having competed for a place in the Indian
team, at a time when the talent in the Indian team was at an all time high!
I do agree that he surely does not qualify/belong to this discussion - "worst.."
Let me throw another name into the discussion and immediately duck for cover :).
I am talking about Srikkanth! If the criteria for selecting a test opener is
as you describe it, i.e. using the first *8* tests as the criteria, then does
Srikkanth qualify?? I am not sure of the exact stats here (old-age is creeping
sloooooooowly :) ), but his performance will also be on par with Raman's.
Now, don't get me wrong here. I would be totally "insane" in saying that
Raman was even *half* as good as Srikkanth. :) :) :)
Of course getting Raman back into the Indian team will be very short-sighted.
Raman will just go back to the Ranji grounds and live a life full of stories
for his children/grand-children!
Having fed the big guns, now I should really leave the floor to them....
Peace guys,
Mayank [ Raman-Shastri-Srikkanth.....who next??? :-| :-| ] Gour
>
>> - gautham -
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neeran Karnik ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Dept. of Computer Science, | Email: kar...@cs.umn.edu
>University of Minnesota | kar...@staff.tc.umn.edu
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>NEWS FLASH!!
> Today the East German pole-vault champion became the West
> German pole-vault champion.
Neeran M. Karnik
>> Ok, sorry, sorry :-) I misinterpreted you, I suppose. But cool
>>down, it's not like I accused you of being a Shastri-Fan :-)
>Neeran, now now now, here you go overboard :) :).
>In trying to appease a Raman-Fan, you have unknowlingly rekindled the fire
>inside a Shastri_Fan :) :) :). So, here I go......
Heh heh, I'm glad I did :-)
>Shastri-Fan, I guess I
>could qualify for that 'sobriquet'. Neeran, Shastri may not have the 'style'
>of Raman, but then I know that he has a better record as an opener! You cannot
>deny him the credit! Raman was stylish, may even have been a 'mini-Gower', but
>he surely was not half as good an opener as Shastri.
>Do you see a flame here Neeran??? :) :)
Oooh it hurts :-) Mayank, I was *joking*. I'm surprised you haven't
noticed this, but I'm as much a Shastri-Fan as you are! Of course
Shastri's record is far superior to Raman's - the man has TWELVE
Test centuries, for heaven's sake! And the straightest bat in India
(next, perhaps to Manjrekar).
>team, at a time when the talent in the Indian team was at an all time high!
>I do agree that he surely does not qualify/belong to this discussion - "worst.."
Yes, reading his name among the "worst" got me into this thread in
the first place.
>Mayank [ Raman-Shastri-Srikkanth.....who next??? :-| :-| ] Gour
Ranbhise, Dinesh R.
CRICKETER OF ALL TIMES" SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY FAILED IN A COUPLE OF
MATCHES AND WERE THEN NEVER SELECTED.
dinesh ranbhise