greatest athletes by nationality
rcp...@iamerica.net
is a very difficult task. I’ve done plenty research and I’ve tried to be as
objective and thorough as possible. I don’t know enough about some nations
and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I will
release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
NATION ATHLETE (sport) OTHERS CONSIDERED
Albania Pyros Dimas (weightlifting)
Algeria Nourred. Morceli (athletics) Cerdan, El Ouafi, O’Kacha
Argentina Alfredo Di Stefanio (soccer) Maradona, Monzon, Perez, Porta
Armenia Igor-Ter Ovan. (athletics) Emmiyan, Militasian
Australia Don Bradman (cricket) Camp., Elliott, Clarke, Laver, Matthews
Austria Toni Sailer (skiing) Klammer, Sindelar, Maier, Muster
Azerbaijan Nik. Abdullayev (wrestling)
Bahamas Troy Kemp (athletics)
Barbados Garfield Sobers (cricket) Richards, Walcott, Worrell
Belarus Vitali Scherbo (gymnastics) Sidiak
Belgium Eddy Merckx (cycling) Moens, Scherens, I.Van Damme
Bermuda Clarence Hill (boxing)
Brazil Pele (soccer) Friederich, R & H Gracie, Jofre, Santos
Bulgaria Valen. Jordanov (wrestling) Kiran, Markov, Stoichkov, Valchev
Burundi Ven. Niyongabo (athletics)
Cameroon Roger Milla (soccer) Bessali, Suke
Canada Wayne Gretzky (ice hockey) Conacher, Howe, Langford, Lemieux, Orr
Chile Marcelo Rios (tennis) Figueroa
China Yang Yang (table tennis) W. Cheung, Jianhua, Tse-tsung, Xiaoshaog
Columbia Carlos Valderrama (soccer)
Congo Anacet Wamba (boxing)
Croatia Drazen Petrovic (basketball) Ivansevic, Kukoc, Suker
Cuba Javier Sotomayor (athletics) Canseco, Dihigo, Gavilan, Stevenson
Cyprus Garo Yepremian (football)
Czech Rep. Emil Zatopek (athletics) Hasek, Jagr, Lendl, Mikita, Zelezny
Denmark Battling Nielsen (boxing) M. Andersen, Ellegaard, Kipketer, Kops
Djibouti Ahmed Salah (athletics)
Dom. Rep. Juan Marichal (baseball) P. Martinez, Sosa
Ecuador Andres Gomez (tennis) Perez
Egypt Amr Bey (squash) Al-Khatib, El-Touni, Krism
England Daley Thompson (athletics) Coe, Fitzsim., Grace, Matthews, Redgrave
Estonia Juri Tamm (athletics) Salurce, Klunberg, Palusalu
Ethiopia Abebe Bikila (athletics) Gebresilasie
Finland Paavo Nurmi (athletics) Kurri, Nykanien, Thunberg, Viren
Fiji Vijay Singh (golf)
France Jean-Claude Killy (skiing) Cochet, d’Oriola, Morelon, Platini,
Georgia Viktor Saneyev (athletics) Tediaschwili
Germany Franz Beckenbauer (soccer) Becker, Dietr., Harbig, Hingsen, Matthes
Ghana Abebi Pele (soccer) A. Nelson, Quartey
Greece Leonidas (athletics) Gallis, Milo, Tsilchitiros
Guatemala Ted Hendricks (football)
Guinea Cherif Souleymarie (soccer)
Guyana Michael Anthony (boxing)
Haiti Silvio Cator (athletics)
Hawaii Duke Kahanamoku (swimming) Akebono, Kahauala, Kono, Leopoldo
Honduras Steve Van Buren (football)
Hong Kong Bruce Lee (martial arts) Billington, P. Wai Man Chung
Hungary Tamas Darnyi (swimming) Gyarmatti, Kocsis, Nemeth, Papp, Puskas
Iceland Vilh. Einarsson (athletics)
India Dhyan Chand (field hockey) Dev, Gama, Gavaskar, H.Khan, U.Singh
Indonesia Rudy Harton (badminton)
Iran Abdellah Mouched (wrestling) Takhti
Iraq Abdul Wahid Aziz (wrestling)
Ireland George Best (soccer) Coghlan, Dempsey, Flanagan, McBride
Israel Yael Ana Arad (martial arts) Berger, Berkowitz, Henefeld
Italy Alberto Tomba (skiing) Benvenuti, Monti, Nadi, Rossi, Thoeni
Iv. Coast Gabriel Tiacoh (athletics)
Jamaica Donald Quarrie (athletics) C.Davis, Ewing, McKenley, White, Wint
Japan Masahiko Kimura (mart. arts) Chiyonofuji, Kato, Nagashima, Nakano, Oh
Kazahstan Boris Shaklin (gymnastics) Smirnov
Kenya Henry Rono (athletics) Keino, Kiptanui, Komen
Korea Sosai Mas Oyama (mart. arts) Il Kim, Gishi, Bong, Park, Yang-ki
Latvia Janis Lusis (athletics)
Lebanon Zakana Chibab (wrestling)
Liberia George Weah (soccer)
Libya Moh. Trabulsi (weightlifting)
Liechten. Hanni Wenzel (skiing)
Lithuania Arvidas Sabonis (basketball) Budin, Marciulonis
Luxembourg Marc Girardelli (skiing) Frantz
Malaysia Wang Peng Soon (badminton) Choong
Mali Salif Keita (soccer)
Mexico Salvatore Sanchez (boxing) Alvarado, Carbajal, Chavez, Valenzuela
Morocco Said Aouita (athletics) El Guerrouj
Namibia Frank Fredericks (athletics)
Nepal Tenz. Norpeng (mtn climbing)
Netherlan. Johan Cruyff (soccer) Romme, Schenk, Smits, Van Basten
N Zealand Peter Snell (athletics) Hadlee, Hillary, Meads, J.Walker
Nicaragua Dennis Martinez (baseball) Arguello
Niger Issaka Boborg (boxing)
Nigeria Hakeem Olajuwon (basketball) Okoye, Tiger
Norway Bjorn Daehlie (skiing) Ballangrud, Mathisen, Olav Koss, Ruud
Oman Moham. Al-Malky (athletics)
Pakistan Janshar Khan (badminton) Akram, Imran Khan, J.Khan
Panama Roberto Duran (boxing) Blackman, Al Brown, Carew, LaBeach
Paraguay J.C. Romero (soccer) Amarilla
Peru Teofilo Cubillas (soccer) Duarte
Philipp. Pancho Villa (boxing) A.Clark, Elorde
Poland Jasek Wszola (athletics) Baszonowski, Kulej, Lato, Sidlo
Portugal Eusebio (soccer) Cubillas, Lopes
P. Rico Roberto Clemente (baseball) Benitez, Camacho, Cepeda, J.Gonzalez
Qatar Moham. Suleiman (athletics)
Romania Nicu Vlad (weightlifting) Muresan, Nastase, Patzaichin
Russia Aleks. Karelin (wrestling) Andrian., Brumel, Popov, Tretiak, Yashin
Samoa Junior Seau (football) Fatialofa, Tatupu
S. Arabia Majed Abd. Mohammed (soccer)
Scotland Andy Irvine (rugby) W.Anderson, Galloore, Gardiner, Hastings
Senegal Amadou Dia Ba (athletics) B. Siki
Singapore H. Tiang Tan (weightlifting)
Slovakia Michal Martikan (canoeing)
Slovenia Leon Stukelj (gymnastics)
Somalia Abdi Bile (athletics)
S. Africa Gary Player (golf) G. Anderson, Brits, Craven, Els, Gerber
Spain Miguel Indurain (cycling) Ballesteros, Cacho, Zamaro, Zubero
Sri Lanka Sanath Jayasuriya (cricket) D.White
Suriname Anthony Nesty (swimming)
Sweden Bjorn Borg (tennis) A.Borg, Frederiksson, Jernberg, Stenmark
Switzer. Pirmin Zurbriggen (skiing) Gunthor, Miez, Weder
Taiwan C.K. Yang (athletics)
Tanzania Suleiman Nyambui (athletics) Ikangaa
Thailand Sunluck Kamsing (boxing)
Tonga Jonah Lomu (rugby) Wolfgrun
Trinidad Ato Boldon (athletics) Constantine, H.Crawford
Tunisia Mahmoud Gammoudi (athletics) Tarak
Turkey Naim Suleym. (weightlifting)
Uganda John Akii-Bua (athletics) Mugabi
Ukraine Sergei Bubka (athletics) Avilov, Medved, Syedikh
USA Jim Thorpe (athletics/fb) Ali, Brown, Cobb, Jordan, Lewis, Ruth
Uruguay Juan Schiaffino (soccer) Andrade, Ghiggia
Venezuela Serge Blanco (rugby) Aparicio, Galarraga, Rodriguez
Vietnam Dat Nguyen (football)
Virgin Is. Tim Duncan (basketball) Griffith, P.Jackson
Wales Gareth Edwards (rugby) C.Jackson, Meredith, JPR Williams, Wilde
Yemen Naseem Hamed (boxing)
Yugoslavia Vlade Divac (basketball) Bancic, Cosic, Scekic, Topic
Zaire Dikembe Mutombo (basketball)
Zambia Samuel Matete (athletics)
Zimbabwe Nick Price (golf)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
rcp...@iamerica.net
Daehlie (skiing) Ballangrud, Hoff, Mathisen, O.Koss, Ruud Oman Moham.
Dianne van Dulken
<snip, and showing great restraint in not making any snarky comments
about female athletes not being considered athletes as such)
>India Dhyan Chand (field hockey) Dev, Gama, Gavaskar, H.Khan, U.Singh
Oh My!
So Tendy didn't even get considered!
Cheers
Di
http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/2497,http://www.netserv.net.au/dianne/skeletons
My cool quote of the month: (this one is for Harish)
"You are an extraordinary fellow. You never say a moral thing, and you never do a wrong thing. Your cynicism is simply a pose"
Usual girly "Oooh Aaah you are so clever" noises apply to the first one to email me with the source.
Last months was from "Anne of the Island" by LM Montgomery
Ramaswamy
wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:29:17 GMT, rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
><snip, and showing great restraint in not making any snarky comments
>about female athletes not being considered athletes as such)
Er, ahem, Hanni Wenzel...
>
>>India Dhyan Chand (field hockey) Dev, Gama, Gavaskar, H.Khan, U.Singh
>
>
>Oh My!
>So Tendy didn't even get considered!
Who dat? or Tenz. Norpeng, for that matter? :-) When Indian Hockey ruled
the world, Dhyan Chand was it. The list is a strange mix of the old and
the new, but Gretzky's name was spelt right, Clemente made the list, and
I'm prepared to leave it at that.
>Cheers
>
>Di
>http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/2497,http://www.netserv.net.au/dianne/skeletons
>
>My cool quote of the month: (this one is for Harish)
Our Harish? Cool!
Neil Selby
: On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:29:17 GMT, rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
: <snip, and showing great restraint in not making any snarky comments
: about female athletes not being considered athletes as such)
: >India Dhyan Chand (field hockey) Dev, Gama, Gavaskar, H.Khan, U.Singh
: Oh My!
: So Tendy didn't even get considered!
Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
Neil
Devadatta Mukutmoni
>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:29:17 GMT, rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
><snip, and showing great restraint in not making any snarky comments
>about female athletes not being considered athletes as such)
>
>So Tendy didn't even get considered!
That is fair enough. Tendulkar is still work in progress.
Dhyan Chand is a good choice. Kapil Dev and Gavaskar are automatic
choices. Gama was the world renowned wrestler from pre-independent
(undivided) India. He was a world champion at a time when wrestling
was a serious and competitive international sport. He is clearly a
contender.
Now I am sure to get flamed for this, but I have no clue as to
who H. Khan and U. Singh are. If Chess is classified as a sport,
I would put Anand in the list (it really should not be).
John Hall
This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
--
John Hall
"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde
jay
Jansher Khan of Pakistan is famous for Squash in the world. He may be amature
badmington player, though..
rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes by nation
> is a very difficult task. I致e done plenty research and I致e tried to be as
> objective and thorough as possible. I don稚 know enough about some nations
> and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
> included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I will
> release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
>
> NATION ATHLETE (sport) OTHERS CONSIDERED
> Albania Pyros Dimas (weightlifting)
> Algeria Nourred. Morceli (athletics) Cerdan, El Ouafi, O狸acha
> France Jean-Claude Killy (skiing) Cochet, d丹riola, Morelon, Platini,
(Cybiades) Peter B
>
> GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes by nation
> objective and thorough as possible. I don?t know enough about some nations
> and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
> included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I will
> release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
>
Oh, boy, there's a lot more: Court, Goolagong, O'Neill, Freeman, Fraser,
Belinda Clark among the girls...Hoad, Newcombe, Fraser, Perkins,
Armstrong, Konrads, John Rogers, Hunt, Bosnich, Mundine, Fenech,
Harding, Rose...
> Hungary Tamas Darnyi (swimming) Gyarmatti, Kocsis, Nemeth, Papp, Puskas
No Egerszegyi or Norbert Rosza?
> N Zealand Peter Snell (athletics) Hadlee, Hillary, Meads, J.Walker
Where's Danyon Loader? (Or Xena for that matter :P )
'Later
Peter
--
Cybiades: Computing For Fun
http://www.ticnet.com/azenomei/fels/fels.html
Visit my online world!!! (In progress)
Running Linux 2.0.35
AfterStep FAQ http://www.ticnet.com/azenomei/as/start.html
samarth harish shah
> Oh My!
> So Tendy didn't even get considered!
Yeah, I would've guessed so... considering that his stature in world sport
as such is rather small... Dhyan Chand was a pioneer in world hockey.
Kapil Dev and Sunil Gavaskar still remain the 2 greatest cricketers India
has ever produced... (DUCKING!).
Beats me why Vishy Anand was not considered, though. He doesn't qualify to
be called an "athlete", eh? And pray tell me, who're Gama, H. Khan and U.
Singh?
-Samarth.
Gregory Gliedman
rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY
> NATION ATHLETE (sport) OTHERS CONSIDERED
>
> Mexico Salvatore Sanchez (boxing) Alvarado, Carbajal, Chavez, Valenzuela
>
Sanchez the greatest Mexican athlete of all time?...Interesting choice. Any
comments?
And which Carbajal is that? Michael? He was born, raised and still lives in
Phoenix, Arizona, USA (the country he fought for in the 1988 Olympics). His father
won the AZ golden gloves in the 40's.
> Nicaragua Dennis Martinez (baseball) Arguello
>
IMO Arguello ranks above Martinez. Arguello is in the Hall of Fame for his sport, a
consensus all-time great, while Martinez is not.
> Thailand Sunluck Kamsing (boxing)
>
Sunluck Kamsing? Sure, he's a gold medalist, but is anybody putting him above
Khoshai Galaxy, who won 42 straight fights while holding the WBA 115 title for 7
years?
GG
Larry D. Hols
This discussion has no bearing on disc sports--disc golf, ultimate, guts,
double disc court, etc.--so please do not cross-post this thread to rec.sport.disc.
Larry
Shridhar
>Take it from me, SMG is head and
>shoulders above all other Indian crickerts
Tell this to the WI bowlers like Marshall and Holding and it
will throw them into fits.
Shridhar
Tom Bok
>Interesting choices. But Lato wasnt the best Polish footballer. Deyna,
>Zmuda, Boniek, Lubanski, Tomaszewski or Mlynarczyk would be.
>Bazonowski for weigh lifting is the right choice for this discipline.
>Other weighlifters considered might be Smalcerz or Palinski.
>What about Partyka for track and field?
>For me the greatest Polish male athelete was Ryszard Szurkowski.
>And Jerzy Kulej, who was 2 time Olympic Champion and 2 time European
>Champion.
Hey now, don't get me started about the great Polish athletes!
The USA choices look pretty good, but I am surprised to see one blatant
omission:
Goldberg (wrestling)
Here is an athlete with more muscles in his neck than most of the other
people on that list have in their whole body. Jim Thorpe? He's got a
pretty face, but I would have to withold judgment until I see him in the
ring with Goldberg.
Just checking in,
Tom Bok 3:16
RPP
>Poland Jasek Wszola (athletics) Baszonowski, Kulej, Lato, Sidlo
Interesting choices. But Lato wasnt the best Polish footballer. Deyna,
Farmer
>rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
>>
>> GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes by nation
>> is a very difficult task. I?ve done plenty research and I?ve tried to be as
>> objective and thorough as possible. I don?t know enough about some nations
>> and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
>> included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I will
>> release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
>>
>> Australia Don Bradman (cricket) Camp., Elliott, Clarke, Laver, Matthews
>
>Oh, boy, there's a lot more: Court, Goolagong, O'Neill, Freeman, Fraser,
>Belinda Clark among the girls...Hoad, Newcombe, Fraser, Perkins,
>Armstrong, Konrads, John Rogers, Hunt, Bosnich, Mundine, Fenech,
>Harding, Rose...
snip
There might be a lot more but nobody captured Australia's hearts like
Bradman even our Prime Minister call's him our greatest living person.
Bradman is possibly the easiest choice of all the countries listed.
--------------------
Have a nice day
Farmer 3:16
Dehere
of some sort *grin*
Deh
Farmer
>
>>Interesting choices. But Lato wasnt the best Polish footballer. Deyna,
>>Zmuda, Boniek, Lubanski, Tomaszewski or Mlynarczyk would be.
>>Bazonowski for weigh lifting is the right choice for this discipline.
>>Other weighlifters considered might be Smalcerz or Palinski.
>>What about Partyka for track and field?
>>For me the greatest Polish male athelete was Ryszard Szurkowski.
>>And Jerzy Kulej, who was 2 time Olympic Champion and 2 time European
>>Champion.
>
>Hey now, don't get me started about the great Polish athletes!
>
>The USA choices look pretty good, but I am surprised to see one blatant
>omission:
>
> Goldberg (wrestling)
>
>Here is an athlete with more muscles in his neck than most of the other
>people on that list have in their whole body. Jim Thorpe? He's got a
>pretty face, but I would have to withold judgment until I see him in the
>ring with Goldberg.
>
>Just checking in,
>
>Tom Bok 3:16
>
Stone Cold Steve Austin would stun him ;)
Drewy
<zOioYkAZ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> >Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
>
> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
> --
I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle the
contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost unique...no,
in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll have
my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are the
others that he has named.
Drewy
Drewy
<630237FCBEBD0016.B183DD07...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
> rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> >
> > GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes by
nation
be as
> > objective and thorough as possible. I don?t know enough about some
nations
> > and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
> > included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I
will
> > release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
> >
Matthews
>
> Belinda Clark among the girls...Hoad, Newcombe, Fraser, Perkins,
> Armstrong, Konrads, John Rogers, Hunt, Bosnich, Mundine, Fenech,
> Harding, Rose...
>
Peter, he did emphasise that these were all men - the women will be here
shortly. Won't this list lead to same debate at the club next week!
Laver is clearly the best tennis player we have produced - so he almost
eliminates Hoad, Newcombe etc. It depends on his definition of athletes, of
course - an Australian all-time greats list without a swimmer seems
strange. Or a golfer, I guess.
Jeff Harding??? Do you think so?
Now the Camp. - who is that?? Campese? Donald Campbell? I give up. And
Matthews?? Remember no women on this list so it isn't Marlene Matthews.
Then who?? Greg or Chris? Probably not. I'm stumped.
> > Hungary Tamas Darnyi (swimming) Gyarmatti, Kocsis, Nemeth,
Papp, Puskas
Not Laszlo Papp? Interesting call.
>
> No Egerszegyi or Norbert Rosza?
>
I suspect she will be on the females list though - what a champion!
>
> > N Zealand Peter Snell (athletics) Hadlee, Hillary, Meads,
J.Walker
>
rosh...@my-dejanews.com
> about female athletes not being considered athletes as such)
>
>
> So Tendy didn't even get considered!
>
You are looking at the wrong list, check under "Greatest Athletes by Galaxies"
Roshan
John Hall
You have a point. It may be that I was over-influenced by my mental
ranking of the relative importance of cricket and rowing.
--
John Hall
"One half of the world cannot understand
the pleasures of the other."
From "Emma" by Jane Austen (1775-1817)
rcp...@iamerica.net
"Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
> (Cybiades) Peter B <azen...@ticnet.com> wrote in article
> <630237FCBEBD0016.B183DD07...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
> t>...
> > rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> > >
> nation
> be as
> > > objective and thorough as possible. I don?t know enough about some
> nations
> > > and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries are
> > > included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I
> will
> > > release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
> > >
> Matthews
> >
> > Belinda Clark among the girls...Hoad, Newcombe, Fraser, Perkins,
> > Armstrong, Konrads, John Rogers, Hunt, Bosnich, Mundine, Fenech,
> > Harding, Rose...
> >
>
> Peter, he did emphasise that these were all men - the women will be here
> shortly. Won't this list lead to same debate at the club next week!
>
> Laver is clearly the best tennis player we have produced - so he almost
> eliminates Hoad, Newcombe etc. It depends on his definition of athletes, of
> course - an Australian all-time greats list without a swimmer seems
> strange. Or a golfer, I guess.
>
> Jeff Harding??? Do you think so?
>
> Now the Camp. - who is that?? Campese? Donald Campbell? I give up. And
> Matthews?? Remember no women on this list so it isn't Marlene Matthews.
> Then who?? Greg or Chris? Probably not. I'm stumped.
>
> > > Hungary Tamas Darnyi (swimming) Gyarmatti, Kocsis, Nemeth,
> Papp, Puskas
>
> Not Laszlo Papp? Interesting call.
> >
> > No Egerszegyi or Norbert Rosza?
> >
> I suspect she will be on the females list though - what a champion!
>
> >
> > > N Zealand Peter Snell (athletics) Hadlee, Hillary, Meads,
> J.Walker
> >
> > Where's Danyon Loader? (Or Xena for that matter :P )
> >
> > 'Later
> > Peter
> >
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
rcp...@iamerica.net
> The readers were asked to pick up from the list (mentioned below) and the one
> which matches those of IT panel of judges were to be give some prize. The
> participant were expected to give reasons on why they selected someone as #1.
>
> The list was:-
>
> SMG
> Kapil
> Micheal Ferrera
> Prakash Padukone
> P T Usha
> Milkha Singh
> Dyan Chand
> Vijay Amritraj
> Ramnathan Krishnan.
>
> No prize for guessing who won it :-) IIRC Kapil was down at 4 or 5. Even in
> 1986 Kapil could not beat SMG in popularity. Take it from me, SMG is head and
> shoulders above all other Indian crickerts, Kapil and SRT (so far) included.
>
> RK-
>
What was the outcome of the poll? Who do you think are the greatest Indian
sportsmen? Don't forget about the great Indian wrestler, Gama?
Ramaswamy
>John Hall <nws...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><zOioYkAZ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>> >Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
>>
>> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
>> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
>> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
>> --
>
>I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle the
>contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost unique...no,
>in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll have
>my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are the
>others that he has named.
Not quite unique, Drewy! I saw Redgrave at the Atlanta games (on TV),
but Al Oerter of the US not only competed in 4 successive games
(1956-1968) and each time he won the gold for discus. And each time he
was neither the World record holder nor the favourite! There is also a
Danish (Swedish?) sailor named Paul Elvstrom that won 4 gold in 4
Olympics I think (in different classes, once with his daughter). Then
there's Evelyn Ashford, who made the US track team in 4 Games (missing
1980 of course, when she was fast approaching her prime) and IIRC won a
medal in each.
Cheers,
Ramaswamy
Beast of Bourbon
>GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY
Very nice list, I appreciate your hard work. Let me propose some
changes/additions. I've suggested boxers, unless otherwise noted.
====================
>Cameroon Roger Milla (soccer) Bessali, Suke
Perhaps Jean-Marie Emebe should be included?
>Colombia Carlos Valderrama
Antonio Cervantes *must* be listed.
>Congo Anacet Wamba (boxing)
It's Anaclet, and are you sure he was born in the Congo?
>Croatia Drazen Petrovic (basketball) Ivansevic, Kukoc, Suker
Perhaps you could mention Mate Parlov.
>Cuba Javier Sotomayor (athletics) Canseco, Dihigo, Gavilan, Stevenson
Either Kid Gavilan or Teofilo Stevenson would make a fine #1 choice. And don't
forget the late, great Cuban fighter Eligio Sardinias--a.k.a. Kid Chocolate.
>Denmark Battling Nielsen (boxing)
Oscar "Battling" Nelson.
>England Daley Thompson (athletics) Coe, Fitzsim., Grace, Matthews, Redgrave
Nigel Benn and Henry Cooper deserve mentions. Many of the bareknuckle champions
were also immensely popular and/or revolutionized the sport of boxing, like John
Jackson, Tom Cribb, William "Bendigo" Thompson, Tom Sayers, etc. And why isn't
Lennox Lewis mentioned? He was born in England and lives there, despite his
ties to both Jamaica and Canada. There are so many other great English boxers,
but too many to list.
>France Jean-Claude Killy (skiing) Cochet, d’Oriola, Morelon, Platini,
Whither Georges Carpentier?
>Germany Franz Beckenbauer (soccer) Becker, Dietr., Harbig, Hingsen, Matthes
Max Schmeling!
>Ghana Abebi Pele (soccer) A. Nelson, Quartey
Azumah Nelson should be considered the greatest Ghanian athlete. He's of royal
stock, to boot.
>Guatemala Ted Hendricks (football)
"El Cigueño Loco"? <g> His nationality is American. I didn't know he was born
in Guatemala. I don't imagine he stayed very long.
>Guyana Michael Anthony (boxing)
Terrance Alli should be top choice. And what about Tony Marshall?
>Haiti Silvio Cator (athletics)
Ancee Gedeon deserves to be included.
>Hawaii Duke Kahanamoku (swimming) Akebono, Kahauala, Kono, Leopoldo
What of Hawaiian-born Jesus Salud? He should be remembered just for all the
title shots he blew. <g>
>Honduras Steve Van Buren (football)
I'm sure if you poked around you could find an authentic Honduran athlete of
note.
>Hungary Tamas Darnyi (swimming) Gyarmatti, Kocsis, Nemeth, Papp, Puskas
Joe Bugner was born in Hungary, but don't remind him. <g> Papp merits top
billing.
>Iceland Vilh. Einarsson (athletics)
Björk Gottmundsdottir (songstress). Well, she's a great babe, anyway. <g>
>India Dhyan Chand (field hockey) Dev, Gama, Gavaskar, H.Khan, U.Singh
Wasn't Vijay Singh a successful, popular tennis player? I think he became an
actor and did a few movies and TV shows here in America during the 80's.
>Ireland George Best (soccer) Coghlan, Dempsey, Flanagan, McBride
Add Jimmy McLarnin and Barry McGuigan!
>Israel Yael Ana Arad (martial arts) Berger, Berkowitz, Henefeld
Tim Puller! <g> And throw in Israel Contreras. <gg>
>Italy Alberto Tomba (skiing) Benvenuti, Monti, Nadi, Rossi, Thoeni
It's Gianfranco Rosi, unless there's someone else famous named Rossi. (Paolo
Rossi?)
>Jamaica Donald Quarrie (athletics) C.Davis, Ewing, McKenley, White, Wint
Simon Brown and Mike McCallum both deserve to be listed. I dare say McCallum
earns top billing.
>Japan Masahiko Kimura (mart. arts) Chiyonofuji, Kato, Nagashima, Nakano, Oh
Yoshio Shirai, Yoko Gushiken, Jiro Watanabe, Yoshio Shirai, Masao Ohba, and even
Yuri Arbachakov all were great, famous Japanese boxers. And who was that
veteran Japanese gymnast who went gold at the '84 Olympics?
>Korea Sosai Mas Oyama (mart. arts) Il Kim, Gishi, Bong, Park, Yang-ki
You skipped a lot of greats. Jung-Koo Chang, Myung-Woo Yuh, and Sung-Kil Moon
are definitely prime candidates for greatest Korean athlete; others like Chul-Ho
Kim, Ki-Soo Kim, Chong-Pal Park, and Jun-Sok Hwang deserve at least a mention.
(Not sure if the Park you mention is Chong-Pal Park--if it is, odd choice for
the only boxer you list.)
>Mexico Salvatore Sanchez (boxing) Alvarado, Carbajal, Chavez, Valenzuela
His name was Salvador Sanchez. And honestly, Julio Cesar Chavez should be rated
#1 Mexican athlete; Sanchez died before his career was close to being over.
Also, Michael Carbajal is American, not Mexican, if that's the Carbajal you're
listing.
And you forget many other greats: Alberto "Baby" Arizmendi, Miguel Canto,
Melchor Cob Castro, Jose "Pipino" Cuevas, Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez, Miguel
Angel Gonzalez, Ricardo Lopez, Ruben Olivares, Carlos Palomino, Lupe Pintor,
Jose Luis Ramirez, Mexican Joe Rivers, Gilberto Roman, Alfonso Zamora, and
Daniel Zaragoza, among so many more that I haven't credited. Canto and Lopez,
at the very least, should be listed in your "honorable mentions."
>Morocco Said Aouita (athletics) El Guerrouj
Isn't Khalid Rahilou of Moroccan heritage?
>Nepal Tenz. Norpeng (mtn climbing)
Tenzig Norgay, isn't it? The man who climbed Everest with Sir Edmund Hillary?
>Netherlan. Johan Cruyff (soccer) Romme, Schenk, Smits, Van Basten
I'd say Regilio Tuur deserves to be mentioned. Didn't he retire from boxing
with only a single loss?
>N Zealand Peter Snell (athletics) Hadlee, Hillary, Meads, J.Walker
Where's Jimmy Thunder? <g>
>Nicaragua Dennis Martinez (baseball) Arguello
!!! Alexis Arguello is easily the greatest Nicaraguan athlete ever, with all
due respect to Mr. Martinez. Rosendo Alvarez should get a mention, too.
>Niger Issaka Boborg (boxing)
Olympic boxer, I imagine? I've not heard of him.
>Panama Roberto Duran (boxing) Blackman, Al Brown, Carew, LaBeach
How could you forget Eusebio Pedroza?! Even Jorge Lujan merits a mention. Glad
you gave props to Panama Al Brown.
>Peru Teofilo Cubillas (soccer) Duarte
It is a crime to omit the great Mauro Mina.
>Philipp. Pancho Villa (boxing) A.Clark, Elorde
Villa and Gabriel "Flash" Elorde are terrific choices. But you should add
Ceferino Garcia. And don't forget Erbito Salavarria, Luisito Espinosa, and
perhaps even Gerry Peñalosa.
>Poland Jasek Wszola (athletics) Baszonowski, Kulej, Lato, Sidlo
Andrzej Golota! <g> And, though it may be a bit premature, Dariusz
Michalczewski.
>P. Rico Roberto Clemente (baseball) Benitez, Camacho, Cepeda, J.Gonzalez
Hector Camacho and Wilfredo Benitez, sure, but what about Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos
Ortiz, Edwin Rosario, Jose Torres, Felix Trinidad, and Wilfredo Vasquez?! All
of them are fantastic candidates.
>Russia Aleks. Karelin (wrestling) Andrian., Brumel, Popov, Tretiak, Yashin
Ivan Drago! <g> Louis "Kid" Kaplan and Konstantin "Kostya" Tszyu deserve
mentions.
>Samoa Junior Seau (football) Fatialofa, Tatupu
David Tua should be added.
>Scotland Andy Irvine (rugby) W.Anderson, Galloore, Gardiner, Hastings
Ken Buchanan and Jim Watt should be included.
>Senegal Amadou Dia Ba (athletics) B. Siki
Louis Phal was Battling Siki's real name. And I might add Jean-Baptiste Mendy.
>S. Africa Gary Player (golf) G. Anderson, Brits, Craven, Els, Gerber
Golf shmolf. <g> Vuyani Bungu and Brian Mitchell both deserve to be credited.
>Sweden Bjorn Borg (tennis) A.Borg, Frederiksson, Jernberg, Stenmark
Ingemar Johansson!
>Thailand Sunluck Kamsing (boxing)
I don't think so. Here are your best nominees: Venice Borkorsor, Chartchai
Chionoi, Sot Chitalada, Khaosai Galaxy, Saensak Muangsurin, Saman Sor Jaturong,
Ratanapol Sor Voraphin, Daorung Chuvatana Siriwat, and Samson Lukchaopormasak.
I'd name Chionoi as the greatest Thai athlete ever, though it's trendy to pick
Galaxy.
>Tonga Jonah Lomu (rugby) Wolfgrun
His name is Paea Wolfgramm.
>Trinidad Ato Boldon (athletics) Constantine, H.Crawford
You should perhaps give some props to Claude Noel and Leslie Stewart.
>Uganda John Akii-Bua (athletics) Mugabi
Cornelius Boza-Edwards should be added.
>Ukraine Sergei Bubka (athletics) Avilov, Medved, Syedikh
Benny Bass merits high consideration. And don't forget the Klitschko brothers,
Vitalij and Vladimir, overrated as they may be.
>USA Jim Thorpe (athletics/fb) Ali, Brown, Cobb, Jordan, Lewis, Ruth
Hmm... tough choice here. I'd pick Ali as #1, with all due respect to Mr.
Thorpe. <g> Also, I think you meant Joe Louis when you wrote Lewis, but you
could have been referring to Carl Lewis (who certainly deserves a spot). I
would also include Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong, along with Joe Louis.
And how could you not credit Henry Aaron, when you mention both Sadaharu Oh
(Japan) and Babe Ruth (USA)? I would add Jesse Owens to the honorable mentions
as well.
>Uruguay Juan Schiaffino (soccer) Andrade, Ghiggia
Alfredo Evangelista should be included.
>Venezuela Serge Blanco (rugby) Aparicio, Galarraga, Rodriguez
Antonio Cermeño, Rafael Orono, and Bernardo Piñango all deserve a
mention--perhaps.
>Vietnam Dat Nguyen (football)
Skipper Kelp! <g>
>Virgin Is. Tim Duncan (basketball) Griffith, P.Jackson
!!! No Julian Jackson?! And I think Livingstone Bramble was born in the V.I.
>Wales Gareth Edwards (rugby) C.Jackson, Meredith, JPR Williams, Wilde
Freddie Welsh absolutely deserves to be included.
>Yemen Naseem Hamed (boxing)
Without a doubt.
>Yugoslavia Vlade Divac (basketball) Bancic, Cosic, Scekic, Topic
Martina Navratilova? <g>
>Zaire Dikembe Mutombo (basketball)
Sumbu Kalambay easily merits inclusion.
>Zambia Samuel Matete (athletics)
Chisanda Mutti and Lotte Mwale both should be mentioned.
-----------
I know I have forgotten many who deserve credit as top athletes in their
respective countries. I'm hoping my fellow r.s.b.'ers can add to the list.
Charles Levy
John Hall (nws...@jhall.demon.co.uk) writes:
> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>>Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
>
> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
> --
>
> "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
> Oscar Wilde
...not to mention Fry ...
Cheers!
Charles
Neil Selby
: On 28 Nov 1998 11:46:57 GMT "Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
: >John Hall <nws...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
: ><zOioYkAZ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>...
: >> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
: >> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
: >> >Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
: >>
: >> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
: >> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
: >> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
: >> --
: >
: >I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle the
: >contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost unique...no,
: >in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll have
: >my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are the
: >others that he has named.
: Not quite unique, Drewy! I saw Redgrave at the Atlanta games (on TV),
: but Al Oerter of the US not only competed in 4 successive games
: (1956-1968) and each time he won the gold for discus. And each time he
: was neither the World record holder nor the favourite! There is also a
: Danish (Swedish?) sailor named Paul Elvstrom that won 4 gold in 4
: Olympics I think (in different classes, once with his daughter). Then
: there's Evelyn Ashford, who made the US track team in 4 Games (missing
: 1980 of course, when she was fast approaching her prime) and IIRC won a
: medal in each.
Fair enough, but none of these are English which was kind of the point ;-)
cheers,
Neil
Shibl Mourad
You skipped Syria, how about heptathlon olympic gold--Ghada Shouaa?
Shibl
Drewy
> ><zOioYkAZ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>...
> >> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
> >> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> >> >Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
> >>
> >> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
> >> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
> >> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
> >> --
> >
> >I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle the
> >contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost
unique...no,
> >in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll
have
> >my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are the
> >others that he has named.
> >
>
> You have a point. It may be that I was over-influenced by my mental
> ranking of the relative importance of cricket and rowing.
> --
And I had an ancestor who was a world sculling champion. :-)
As opposed to me who is a world skolling champion. (Well, I'm in training
anyway!)
Drewy
Drewy
<73pqva$dai$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
> In rec.sport.cricket Ramaswamy <ra...@ultranet.com> wrote:
> : On 28 Nov 1998 11:46:57 GMT "Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
>
> : ><zOioYkAZ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>...
> : >> In article <73n4br$i3u$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
> : >> Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> : >> >Should have been Redgrave for England. No competition.
> : >>
> : >> This is an all-time list, don't forget. Surely you wouldn't rate him
> : >> ahead of (in an effort to remain on-topic I'll restrict myself to
> : >> cricketers) Grace, Barnes or Hobbs?
> : >> --
> : >
> : >I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle
the
> : >contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost
unique...no,
> : >in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll
have
> : >my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are
the
> : >others that he has named.
>
> : but Al Oerter of the US not only competed in 4 successive games
> : (1956-1968) and each time he won the gold for discus. And each time he
> : was neither the World record holder nor the favourite! There is also a
> : Danish (Swedish?) sailor named Paul Elvstrom that won 4 gold in 4
> : Olympics I think (in different classes, once with his daughter). Then
> : there's Evelyn Ashford, who made the US track team in 4 Games (missing
> : 1980 of course, when she was fast approaching her prime) and IIRC won a
> : medal in each.
>
Oops thanks for the correction! I DID know about the first two and somehow
allowed them to slip my memory. Evelyn Ashord isn't known to me so I will
have to go away and look her up. (I love the Olympic Games!)
rcp...@iamerica.net
Mac Attack
rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> Denmark Battling Nielsen (boxing) M. Andersen, Ellegaard, Kipketer, Kops
Peter Schemeichel (soccer)
> France Jean-Claude Killy (skiing) Cochet, d丹riola, Morelon, Platini,
Definitely Platini
> Hawaii Duke Kahanamoku (swimming) Akebono, Kahauala, Kono, Leopoldo
Since when is Hawaii a country
> Japan Masahiko Kimura (mart. arts) Chiyonofuji, Kato, Nagashima, Nakano, Oh
K. Miura (soccer)
> Romania Nicu Vlad (weightlifting) Muresan, Nastase, Patzaichin
What's the name of the girl who scored a perfect 10.00 in gymnastics?
> USA Jim Thorpe (athletics/fb) Ali, Brown, Cobb, Jordan, Lewis, Ruth
Defintiely Babe Ruth. Lots of people know nothing bout baseball, like me, but we've
all heard of babe.
AfriqaBoy
Beast of Bourbon wrote in message <366050ce...@news.earthlink.net>...
>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:29:17 GMT, rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
>Ghana Abebi Pele (soccer) A. Nelson, Quartey
>
>Azumah Nelson should be considered the greatest Ghanian athlete. He's of
royal
>stock, to boot.
>
Yeah, Beast, u are right. I come from Ghana and even though Abedi Pele is
popular, he doesnt come anywhere near the popularity and geratness of Azumah
Nelson who is an absolute national institution. I think D.K. Poison could
also be mentioned. he was the first Ghanaian boxer to win a world title
(featherweight, 1977?) which he lost to Danny ''little red" Lopez. He is
still a household name in Ghana. Ever heard of him?
Drewy
> In article <01be1ac6$c1601960$f794...@mdrew.tig.com.au>,
> "Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
> > (Cybiades) Peter B <azen...@ticnet.com> wrote in article
> >
<630237FCBEBD0016.B183DD07...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
> > t>...
> > > rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes
by
> > nation
> > > > is a very difficult task. I?ve done plenty research and I?ve tried
to
> > be as
> > > > objective and thorough as possible. I don?t know enough about some
> > nations
> > > > and their athletic history to include them; however, most countries
are
> > > > included. Write me with any additions, questions and/or comments. I
> > will
> > > > release a "greatest female athletes by nation" in December.
> > > >
> > > > Australia Don Bradman (cricket) Camp., Elliott, Clarke,
Laver,
> > Matthews
> > >
snip> >
> > Laver is clearly the best tennis player we have produced - so he almost
> > eliminates Hoad, Newcombe etc. It depends on his definition of
athletes, of
> > course - an Australian all-time greats list without a swimmer seems
> > strange. Or a golfer, I guess.
> >
> > Now the Camp. - who is that?? Campese? Donald Campbell? I give up. And
> > Matthews?? Remember no women on this list so it isn't Marlene Matthews.
> > Then who?? Greg or Chris? Probably not. I'm stumped.
> >
> Dave Campese (rugby) & Stanley Matthews (soccer)
>
Thank you. I think you have made a brave attempt and have clearly put in
plenty of research. I have a print-out of the list and will throw it open
for debate among my mates tomorrow night. For some comments on the
Australian list:
1. Stanley Matthews is not Australian but English. He actually appears
under England on your list. No wonder I couldn't work out who it was. :-)
2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored plenty of
tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best rugby
player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football codes
in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4 golds,
several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records over a
range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring to
mind.
4. Greg Norman, despite his record in the majors, has been world number 1
for a lotta years and there are several other golfers who all deserve to be
considered.
5. There are also some cyclists, yachtsmen and equestrians with some claim
to being considered for your list.
Having said all that, you did pick the correct winner - Don Bradman by a
country mile!!
Drewy
Robbert ter Hart
Ramaswamy schreef:
> >I don't know, actually, John. Without in any way wishing to belittle the
> >contributions of those great men you name, Redgrave is almost unique...no,
> >in fact, he is unique IIRC. Four Olympic Games now, isn't it? And I'll have
> >my eye open for him in Sydney. A true champion - so, of course, are the
> >others that he has named.
>
> Not quite unique, Drewy! I saw Redgrave at the Atlanta games (on TV),
> but Al Oerter of the US not only competed in 4 successive games
> (1956-1968) and each time he won the gold for discus. And each time he
> was neither the World record holder nor the favourite! There is also a
> Danish (Swedish?) sailor named Paul Elvstrom that won 4 gold in 4
> Olympics I think (in different classes, once with his daughter). Then
> there's Evelyn Ashford, who made the US track team in 4 Games (missing
> 1980 of course, when she was fast approaching her prime) and IIRC won a
> medal in each.
>
> Cheers,
> Ramaswamy
You forgot Carl Lewis, who also has gold medals from four successive olympics
(LA to Atlanta).
But as Neil has pointed out, none of these are English, and that's why I, too,
think Steve Redgrave should be no.1
Robbert ter Hart
Beast of Bourbon schreef:
> On Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:29:17 GMT, rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> >GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY
>
> Very nice list, I appreciate your hard work. Let me propose some
> changes/additions. I've suggested boxers, unless otherwise noted.
>
>
> >Netherlan. Johan Cruyff (soccer) Romme, Schenk, Smits, Van Basten
>
> I'd say Regilio Tuur deserves to be mentioned. Didn't he retire from boxing
> with only a single loss?
>
I think Bep van Klaveren is considered the best Dutch boxer ever. He was an Olympic champion
in 1928 and fought a match in 1954, when he was 48 years old. (Lost on points)I miss Joop
Zoetemelk (cycling) in the Dutch list, and I don't think Gianni Romme is considered one of
our best athletes, despite his 2 Olympic gold medals last year.
Robbert
edmu...@yahoo.com
"Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
> rcp...@iamerica.net wrote in article <73peo5$f4n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > In article <01be1ac6$c1601960$f794...@mdrew.tig.com.au>,
> > "Drewy" <md...@tig.com.remove.au> wrote:
> > > (Cybiades) Peter B <azen...@ticnet.com> wrote in article
> > >
> <630237FCBEBD0016.B183DD07...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
>
> > > t>...
In soccer this would be a very difficult task.
The 1974 Australia team that qualified for the World Cup had many excellent
players but were essentially part-time players unlike the professional
footballer we have today like Zelic, Viduka, Lazaridis, Farina...
It is diifcult to compare a player like Warren, Wilson with one of the above
players. Warren has contributed more to Australian soccer than any other
player so I feel that he should get the title.
Then in terms of Aboriginal players it is a close contest between Williams
and Perkins. Again on the grounds of contribution to socce,r Perkins would
have to win.
In terms of the world there is little difficulty- Pele or Maradonna.
Pele wins on personality grounds. Skill- Maradonna come close.
> >
>
> Thank you. I think you have made a brave attempt and have clearly put in
> plenty of research. I have a print-out of the list and will throw it open
> for debate among my mates tomorrow night. For some comments on the
> Australian list:
>
> 1. Stanley Matthews is not Australian but English. He actually appears
> under England on your list. No wonder I couldn't work out who it was. :-)
>
> 2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored plenty of
> tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best rugby
> player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football codes
> in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
>
> 3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4 golds,
> several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records over a
> range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring to
> mind.
>
> 4. Greg Norman, despite his record in the majors, has been world number 1
> for a lotta years and there are several other golfers who all deserve to be
> considered.
>
> 5. There are also some cyclists, yachtsmen and equestrians with some claim
> to being considered for your list.
>
> Having said all that, you did pick the correct winner - Don Bradman by a
> country mile!!
>
> Drewy
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Raza Rahman
cross-discipline. For your info, Jahangir Khan is Pakistan's greatest-ever
athlete. He accomplished what probably cannot be duplicated in the sport of squash
(not juggling).
> Pakistan Janshar Khan (badminton) Akram, Imran Khan, J.Khan
Jay Wolfe
rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
very impressive.
some thoughts:
1. where the heck is burkino faso? c'mon, now. are you telling me that no great
athlete's have come from there? what about when it was upper volta?
2. what about jim clark for scotland? i don't know from first-hand, but i believe
that he is quite revered in the land of lochs.
3. if you are calling naseem hamed yamenian, then does rocky marciano qualify as
italian? also, peitro minnea (sp?) held the 200M world record from 1979 until 1996.
this record withstood many many attempts from various USA track studs. as an
american with 50% dago-wop-ginea blood, i am proud of this.
4. yugoslavia. i'm not real sure that they would all wish to be thought of as one
country any longer. break 'em up.
Skippy Jammer
Austria: Reinhold Messner. Has climbed all the 8,000 meter peaks without
oxygen. Considered to be the finest alpinist of all time.
Brazil: Ayrton Senna. Former Formula One racing champ. Also considered to
be the finest motor car racer of all time.
Argentina: Juan Manual Fangio has a ratio of F1 wins to races started that
will never be matched.
Scotland: Give it up for Jackie Stewart, another fine racer.
Skippy Jammer
--
******** Shred or Die ********
rcp...@iamerica.net
> > 2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored plenty of
> > tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best rugby
> > player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football codes
> > in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
I've read that he's the best rugby player in Australian history. Who do you
think is?
> > 3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4 golds,
> > several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records over a
> > range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring to
> > mind.
> >
I considered them both; I just didn't have room for them on the screen.
> > 4. Greg Norman, despite his record in the majors, has been world number 1
> > for a lotta years and there are several other golfers who all deserve to be
> > considered.
I didn't include many golfers because golf isn't much of an athletic sport;
however Greg was and is excellent.
rcp...@iamerica.net
I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
>
> --
> ******** Shred or Die ********
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Geoff Muldoon
>> > 2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored plenty of
>> > tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best rugby
>> > player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football codes
>> > in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
>I've read that he's the best rugby player in Australian history. Who do you
>think is?
Best winger, yes. Hard to say that makes him the best player. Other
nominees would include John Eales, Mark Ella, Ken Catchpole.
>> > 3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4 golds,
>> > several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records over a
>> > range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring to
>> > mind.
>> >
>I considered them both; I just didn't have room for them on the screen.
or Dawn Fraser, Shane Gould.
or Tennis - Margaret Court
Why do we tend to forget females?
>> > Having said all that, you did pick the correct winner - Don Bradman by a
>> > country mile!!
>> >
>> > Drewy
Totally agree.
Geoff M
elliot
world record for consecutive billiards (while losing the tourney)?
Skippy Jammer wrote:
>
> A couple of other entries that may be deemed worthy
>
> Austria: Reinhold Messner. Has climbed all the 8,000 meter peaks without
> oxygen. Considered to be the finest alpinist of all time.
>
> Brazil: Ayrton Senna. Former Formula One racing champ. Also considered to
> be the finest motor car racer of all time.
>
> Argentina: Juan Manual Fangio has a ratio of F1 wins to races started that
> will never be matched.
>
> Scotland: Give it up for Jackie Stewart, another fine racer.
>
> Skippy Jammer
>
Glenys Williams
>I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
Take that back!
btw, headers snipped, this looks like a bit all time troll to me.
Glenys
---
Insert sig here
put my first name and pop.onwe in the relevant places
Drewy
> In article <73tbpd$f6h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
Australia Don Bradman (cricket) Camp., Elliott, Clarke, Laver,
Matthews
> > > > > Now the Camp. - who is that?? Campese? Donald Campbell? I give
up. And
> > > > > Matthews?? Remember no women on this list so it isn't Marlene
Matthews.
> > > > > Then who?? Greg or Chris? Probably not. I'm stumped.
> > > > >
> > > > Dave Campese (rugby) & Stanley Matthews (soccer)
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you. I think you have made a brave attempt and have clearly put
in
> > > plenty of research. I have a print-out of the list and will throw it
open
> > > for debate among my mates tomorrow night. For some comments on the
> > > Australian list:
> > >
> > > 1. Stanley Matthews is not Australian but English. He actually
appears
> > > under England on your list. No wonder I couldn't work out who it was.
:-)
> > >
> I made a big mistake; I meant Australian Rules star Leigh Matthews!
OK. I am not a huge Aussie Rules fan - I will run this by my Aussie Rules
friends tonight and see what they say. Lethal Leigh Matthews was a greta
player but I think (as with Campese) his reputation is more due to his
longevity. Players like Roy Cazaly are I think considered more highly.
>
> > > 2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored
plenty of
> > > tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best
rugby
> > > player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football
codes
> > > in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
>
> I've read that he's the best rugby player in Australian history. Who do
you
> think is?
Campo probably wrote that. :-) In my time, Mark Ella was the best I ever
saw; he was uncanny. Occasionally played with two of his brothers and the
three of them seemed telepathetic. He could do anything. Became the first
aboriginal to captain Australia too - scored tries in every match of our
5-nation triumph through Britain and France. And there are plenty of others
I'd go for ahead of Campo.
>
> > > 3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4
golds,
> > > several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records
over a
> > > range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring
to
> > > mind.
> > >
>
> I considered them both; I just didn't have room for them on the screen.
OK - we accepted that you couldn't fit everyone in. But we noticed a
distinct lack of swimmers throughout your whole list - only Nesty and
Kahanomoku from memory. No Mark Spitz, for example. Surely your female list
will HAVE to include Dawn Fraser and Eszersegei.
>
> > > 4. Greg Norman, despite his record in the majors, has been world
number 1
> > > for a lotta years and there are several other golfers who all deserve
to be
> > > considered.
>
> I didn't include many golfers because golf isn't much of an athletic
sport;
> however Greg was and is excellent.
We were unsure of your definition of athlete. One of my friends is a great
motor racing enthusiast and was disappointed that you hadn't considered
them.
Some other points at random (and off the top of my head - I don't have your
list handy). There is some doubt about claims to country status of Hong
Kong and Hawaii. Yet in the Caribbean you have left out a couple of
countries - Antigua is one that spring to mind. (And then it looks like you
have put Antigua's great cricketer Viv Richards in Barbados, from memory!!
That will get you into A LOT of trouble in THIS newgroup.) Nepal's great
mountain climber was Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. There is some doubt about where
to put various individuals - in the country of their birth or the country
they represented. Blanco played 100+ rugby tests for France and yet is
included as a Venezuelan (he never represented them!)
BTW we surprised at Jim Thorpe ahead of Ali or Jordan for the US. I know he
was an all-rounder but if you are going to use that argument then Australia
should include Snowy Baker who played 29 sports and was an acknowledged
master in swimming, horse-riding, boxing, rowing, rugby, running and
gymnastics. He won a boxing silver medal at the 1908 Olympics when the
referee awarded a split decision to HIS SON.
Drewy
Drewy
<7401dj$in1$1...@axis.scu.edu.au>...
> rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> >> > 3. I'm surprised that no swimmers made your list. Murray Rose (4
golds,
> >> > several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records
over a
> >> > range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that
spring to
> >> > mind.
> >> >
>
> >I considered them both; I just didn't have room for them on the screen.
>
>
> or Tennis - Margaret Court
>
> Why do we tend to forget females?
Geoff, we had been told that this list was all-male. An all-female list is
due out some time in December. I can't wait!
Drewy
rcp...@iamerica.net
gmul...@au.edu.scu wrote:
> rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> >> > 2. Whereas David Campese played a lot of rugby Tests and scored plenty of
> >> > tries I think few Australian fans would even consider him the best rugby
> >> > player we have produced. And rugby only ranks third in the football codes
> >> > in this country behind Australian Rules and Rugby League.
>
> >I've read that he's the best rugby player in Australian history. Who do you
> >think is?
>
> nominees would include John Eales, Mark Ella, Ken Catchpole.
>
> >> > several minor medals over 2 Olympics and a stack of world records over a
> >> > range of distances) and Kieren Perkins are two of several that spring to
> >> > mind.
> >> >
>
> >I considered them both; I just didn't have room for them on the screen.
>
> or Dawn Fraser, Shane Gould.
>
> or Tennis - Margaret Court
>
> Why do we tend to forget females?
>
If you read the intro to my original post, you would see that I'm currently
researching a female greats list that I will post later in the month!
> >> > Having said all that, you did pick the correct winner - Don Bradman by a
> >> > country mile!!
> >> >
> >> > Drewy
>
> Totally agree.
>
> Geoff M
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Paul Sackley
rcp...@iamerica.net wrote:
> GREATEST ATHLETES BY NATIONALITY Ranking the greatest male athletes by nation
> is a very difficult task. I致e done plenty research and I致e tried to be as
> objective and thorough as possible.
> Uganda John Akii-Bua (athletics) Mugabi
agreed
> USA Jim Thorpe (athletics/fb) Ali, Brown, Cobb, Jordan, Lewis, Ruth
i was surprised not to see any mention of david gessner (hotbox)
peace
red
executive director, hot box players association
Skippy Jammer
>
> I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
> >
An average F1 race car driver will lose 5-10 pounds during a race. They
have nerves of steel and their reaction time is second to none. What other
elements of athleticism would you deem necessary? I humbly disagree.
Willow
I think the fire suit they wear plays a big part into why they lose weight,
not the time it takes them to turn the steering wheel. If that was the case,
you could include Ninitendo players as athletes. I do not take lightly what
they do though. I just do not consider them athletes either.
Robert Phillips
Skippy Jammer wrote:
> (after someone said)
> > I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
> > >
> An average F1 race car driver will lose 5-10 pounds during a race. They
> have nerves of steel and their reaction time is second to none.
How have you - have YOU - quantified or verified this, about their nerves and
reaction time?
> What other elements of athleticism would you deem necessary?
If those are YOUR preferred elements, by all means, adhere to them. Others,
though, might not.
The argument has always been not so much "who" is or is not an athlete, but
what makes an "athlete" out of the disparate attributes of strength, agility,
speed, endurance, power, reflexes, coordination, etc.etc.etc. And I submit
that there just is no right or wrong combination of those.
Pie
rcp...@iamerica.net
kdgi...@cats.ucsc.edu (Skippy Jammer) wrote:
>
> >
> > I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
> > >
>
> An average F1 race car driver will lose 5-10 pounds during a race. They
> elements of athleticism would you deem necessary? I humbly disagree.
>
How about "real" ones like strength, speed, agility and endurance!!!
> --
> ******** Shred or Die ********
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Craig
>
> Skippy Jammer wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I agree about Messner; however, race car drivers aren't athletes, sorry!
> > > >
> >
> > An average F1 race car driver will lose 5-10 pounds during a race. They
> > have nerves of steel and their reaction time is second to none. What other
> > elements of athleticism would you deem necessary? I humbly disagree.
> >
> > ******** Shred or Die ********
>
> not the time it takes them to turn the steering wheel. If that was the case,
> you could include Ninitendo players as athletes. I do not take lightly what
> they do though. I just do not consider them athletes either.
I think the "athletic" ability of F1 drivers is similar to that of
cricketers, in that some are extremely fit and athletic, others aren't
but still succeed. In F1, Aryton Senna showed how being fit can help you
win. Most drivers in the 90's have exceptional fitness and endurance,
and it shows when they are underprepared. Fisichella at Monaco last year
was running well until about 3/4 of the way through, then he just fell
apart and lost places because he didn't have the strength to keep
driving the car at full pace, which shows that it takes strength and
endurance to drive a modern F1 car. Schumacher has taken fitness for F1
drivers to almost superhuman levels. In contrast, Mansell could hardly
get out of the car after some races, yet he managed to succeed. (And F1
drivers probably have the best neck muscles of any athletes).
In cricket you have some exceptional athletes, and you have some players
who don't fit the "athletic ideal" and yet still succeed (Boon,
Taylor...).
Craig.