OT:harsh mankad
prabh...@hotmail.com
amritraj's son prakash and ashok mankad's son harsh playing the
singles.
Both have an abysmal record. Harsh particularly has wins over some
Lebanese and chinese and yet to take a set off the others:
http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?Player=30015476
Pretty unfortunate that we are piss-poor in singles. Get Sania to play!
gane...@gmail.com
prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Looks like for quite a few years,india's davis cup team will have
vijay
> amritraj's son prakash and ashok mankad's son harsh playing the
> singles.
noticed harsh is only 25 - thought ashok's son would be older than
that.
somehow I had the impression that mankad jr and smg jr were peers at
Bombay Scottish.
I think ashok mankad was the best captain India never had.
-Ganesh P Shetty
Andrew Dunford
<prabh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115042321.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If this Harsh bloke is only 1.62 metres tall, his performance is
understandable. Probably can't see over the net.
Andrew
Uday Rajan
> noticed harsh is only 25 - thought ashok's son would be older than
> that.
> somehow I had the impression that mankad jr and smg jr were peers at
> Bombay Scottish.
Don't know about the latter, but it's possible. Ashok was born in
1946 and Gavaskar in 1949, so they could have played on the same
school team. If Harsh is 25, that makes him 34 years younger than
his father, which is hardly excessive.
> I think ashok mankad was the best captain India never had.
This, we surely agree on.
Aditya Basrur
Uday Rajan wrote:
> gane...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > noticed harsh is only 25 - thought ashok's son would be older than
> > that.
> > somehow I had the impression that mankad jr and smg jr were peers
at
> > Bombay Scottish.
>
> Don't know about the latter, but it's possible. Ashok was born in
> 1946 and Gavaskar in 1949, so they could have played on the same
> school team. If Harsh is 25, that makes him 34 years younger than
> his father, which is hardly excessive.
Yes it is. Ashok should have got his priorities right and started
having kids in his early 20s, a la Butcher Sr. That way he could have
played first-class Cricket against his son. The only problem is that
his son was evidently a cross-batted slogger, so he took to Tennis.
Aditya
gane...@gmail.com
Aditya Basrur wrote:
> Uday Rajan wrote:
> > gane...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > noticed harsh is only 25 - thought ashok's son would be older
than
> > > that.
> > > somehow I had the impression that mankad jr and smg jr were peers
> at
> > > Bombay Scottish.
> >
> > Don't know about the latter, but it's possible. Ashok was born in
> > 1946 and Gavaskar in 1949, so they could have played on the same
> > school team. If Harsh is 25, that makes him 34 years younger than
> > his father, which is hardly excessive.
I meant Rohan Gavaskar and Harsh Mankad- Rohan is almost 30.( its
funny, if I recollect correctly, at scottish Rohan was in the football
team and not in the cricket team)
>
> Yes it is. Ashok should have got his priorities right and started
> having kids in his early 20s, a la Butcher Sr. That way he could have
> played first-class Cricket against his son. The only problem is that
> his son was evidently a cross-batted slogger, so he took to Tennis.
his mother was a national tennis champ so maybe that explains the
preference given to tennis.
anyway this post brought back some good memories of one of favourite
cricket players - Ashok Mankad - self deprecating, modest, superb
cricketing brain and a gentleman in the finest sense of the word.
-Ganesh P Shetty
>
> Aditya
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115080010....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Are you suggesting that had Afridi chosen to play tennis when he was a kid,
he'd have won a Wimbledom title or two?
Cheers, Shishir
Aditya Basrur
ganes...@gmail.com wrote:
> anyway this post brought back some good memories of one of favourite
> cricket players - Ashok Mankad - self deprecating, modest, superb
> cricketing brain and a gentleman in the finest sense of the word.
IYO, how did he compare with TE Srinivasan, Michael Dalvi, Gopal Bose
and WV Raman?
Aditya
Bob Dubery
I'm thoroughly dissapointed.
I'd expected to read all about a particularly nasty running out of the
backing up batsman, or at the very least a revival of Kapil v Kirsten.
Cricketwallah
ganes...@gmail.com wrote:
> Aditya Basrur wrote:
> > Uday Rajan wrote:
> > > gane...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > noticed harsh is only 25 - thought ashok's son would be older
> than
> > > > that.
> > > > somehow I had the impression that mankad jr and smg jr were
peers
> > at
> > > > Bombay Scottish.
> > >
> > > Don't know about the latter, but it's possible. Ashok was born in
> > > 1946 and Gavaskar in 1949, so they could have played on the same
> > > school team. If Harsh is 25, that makes him 34 years younger than
> > > his father, which is hardly excessive.
>
> I meant Rohan Gavaskar and Harsh Mankad- Rohan is almost 30.( its
> funny, if I recollect correctly, at scottish Rohan was in the
football
> team and not in the cricket team)
>
Actually, the SMG-son and Mankad-son were never in the
same school at all, as far as I recall. And this isnt the
correct son anyway :-)
Harsh is actually the second son of Ashok and Nirupama -
the older son was Mihir Mankad. Mihir was a tennis player
too, and a pretty good one - he was up there in the
national rankings at age-group level (might have been
close to winning or might have actually won a national
title at U16 or so, cant quite recall).
Mihir went to Campion, not Bombay Scottish (Rohan did go to
Bombay Scottish however) - not sure if Mihir was a Scottish
guy early or something, but was definitely a Campion guy
in his later years (ie definitely by age 13-14 or so, when
he was a good tennis player - remember him playing for
Campion in the inter-schools). Basically Mihir Mankad and
Altaf Merchant were the two age-group guys battling for
top spot in Bombay U14 and U16 tennis for a while, and
both were from Campion. Altaf went on to win the U14
national title IIRC - cant remember if Mihir did the
same the next year (but he was at the same level, they
used to play each other even in practice all the time,
and in club-tournaments in Bombay, and theyd win maybe
half the time each. Battle royals those were, too :-)
(Dont know if Mihir was a contemporary of Rohan age-wise,
but they were in different sports so didnt look at it
that way at all, at the time :-)
Mihir then went on to Stanford for undergrad, when he was
18 - think he played tennis there too. But dont think he
was quite as serious about tennis after that. At age-group
level, however, he was conceivably a better player than
Harsh, or at least as good (not a very "big" game though,
mostly a baseline player in those days, very steady and
gritty but not a power guy - so would not translate very
well at world level, probably).
I remember Harsh as mostly a kid, so dont have a clear
memory of his style of game. I think he went to Campion
too, but wouldnt swear to it - he was playing no more
than U10 at the time, probably. Did hear long-distance
that he went on to Minnesota and played tennis there
for college (heard about it here too, its a Big 10 program
after all). He probably stayed a whole lot more serious
with tennis than Mihir, and has obviously gone on to
bigger things now. But he was in no way a contemporary
of Rohan Gavaskar - was quite a bit younger, for sure
(I met Rohan at a club game a year or so later, he was
probably 16 at the time - and, while I didnt know Harsh,
I do remember Harsh being a total kid only a year or so
previously, at least 4/5 years younger Id guess at the
least).
> >
> > Yes it is. Ashok should have got his priorities right and started
> > having kids in his early 20s, a la Butcher Sr. That way he could
have
> > played first-class Cricket against his son. The only problem is
that
> > his son was evidently a cross-batted slogger, so he took to Tennis.
>
> his mother was a national tennis champ so maybe that explains the
> preference given to tennis.
>
Yes, Nirupama had been a national champ when she was young,
I think even before she got married. Nirupama Vasant she
was then IIRC. Was still a decent player even in her later
years, played some doubles and made a comeback in her late 30s
once in singles and went all the way to the finals of her
only tournament back IIRC, thrilling everyone in the
process by beating all the young guns (the reason I know all
this about her is cos she coached me for a very short time when
I was about 13 IIRC :-)
I think the kids played most sports at school, as most kids
do. But they were good at tennis anyway - Mihir was
one of the top couple of his age-group in Bombay, and
Harsh was too when he was coming up later. Thats kind of
much harder to do in cricket, where the base of talent is
about nineteen thousand times as big in Bombay :-) When
youre among the best at a certain sport, its not so hard
to pick that one to concentrate on later.
> anyway this post brought back some good memories of one of favourite
> cricket players - Ashok Mankad - self deprecating, modest, superb
> cricketing brain and a gentleman in the finest sense of the word.
>
Yes, pretty good guy in that way (I remember a bunch of us
opinionated kids arguing cricket while he was sitting there,
and most of us were talking junk obviously. But he would
never intervene with his own opinions usually - just sort
of smile and let it go. Most people who know anything about
cricket are very willing to advertise it at every opportunity,
but my big memory of it is that he never did, not once, at
least while at the tennis courts to watch his son play).
It was a pretty good time for former cricketers sons playing
tennis BTW - Asif Ismail was a contemporary (and probably
2/3 years older than Mihir Mankad). He was the son of
Abdul Ismail, and he started late but went on to become
a very good tennis player too - and eventually ended up
playing a few matches for India in the Davis Cup as well.
Asif was in the same school as Gaurav Natekar, the son
of Nandu Natekar (once the best badminton player in
India, who played at the All-England's etc) - Gaurav
Natekar also won an age-group national-title when about
12 or 14 IIRC (and was in the very first group of BAT -
the Brittannia Amritraj Academy thingy, which rejected
Asif Ismail the first time out before trying to claim
credit for him when he started playing well :-)
Sadiq [ who once played awfully and contributed heavily in
losing an inter-school doubles semis to Natekar/Ismail ] Yusuf
> -Ganesh P Shetty
>
> >
> > Aditya
Southpaw
is the true rival of Chennai cricket. Harsh Mankad: beat a few Lebanese
and Chinese players, but not taken a set off anyone of any repute. He
has done what nobody else in the world has been able to do - make his
father look positively world-class.
It appears Vinoo Mankad's wife, in screwing him, screwed the whole
country of some major sporting talent.
Gaurav Natekar: a feather-weight both literally and figuratively. The
Ajit Agarkar of tennis in terms of body-type. Won a few doubles for
India, I think, mainly because his partner was one Leander Paes. Asif
Ismail: well, at least he represented the country, even if he never won
a match in national colors. That's more than his father can say.
Who else? Sandeep and Nitin Kirtane? IIRC they are from Pune, but maybe
they moved to Bombay or something. Perhaps Heeralal Pannalal's advisor
can get a grant to research Bombay tennis.
OTOH, it appears Chennai tennis is the true rival of Bombay cricket.
Ramanathan Krishnan was among the top 10 players in the world in his
era. Reached Wimby semis couple of times. Ramesh Krishnan and Vijay
Amritraj were both top-25 players who won ATP tour titles, and made
Grand Slam quarters several times. Together they also led India to a
Davis Cup final in 1987.
Then there is Leander Paes who was born and raised in Calcutta, but
moved to Chennai when he was 12-13 to join the Britannia Amritraj
tennis academy, and further his tennis career. Where does one start
with him? Top-100 in the world in singles, top-5 in doubles at one
time, Davis Cup legend, Olympic bronze medalist (India's first medal of
any hue in 16 years), several Grand Slam doubles and mixed doubles
titles, junior Wimbledon champ...
Mahesh Bhupathi: born in Chennai, moved elsewhere, but returned to join
the Britannia Amritraj academy. Top-3 in doubles at one time, India's
first Grand Slam winner, several doubles/mixed doubles Grand Slam
titles... Together with Leander, took India to Davis Cup finals.
Not to mention that among women, Coimbatore native Nirupama
Vaidyanathan was the first Indian to win a round in a Grand Slam
tournament, and reached #160ish in the world rankings, in the pre-Sania
days.
-Samarth.
yeskay
>
> Mahesh Bhupathi: born in Chennai, moved elsewhere, but returned to join
> the Britannia Amritraj academy. Top-3 in doubles at one time, India's
> first Grand Slam winner, several doubles/mixed doubles Grand Slam
> titles... Together with Leander, took India to Davis Cup finals.
I think he moved to Bangalore. He is running a tennis academy there.
Southpaw
Weight 45 kgs! He may well be the only player in the ATP men's top
100000 to weigh under 100 lbs.
-Samarth.
>
> Andrew
Southpaw
No matter. There just has to be *some* Chennai connection: born in
Chennai, went to BAT for coaching is good enough. After all, Sadiq does
lay claim to someone like Amit Pagnis, for e.g. He also lays claim to
Abey Kuruvilla who was born in Kerala.
Sadiq also lays claim to Zaheer Khan and Sanjay Bangar, although
neither was born in Bombay, and neither plays for Bombay. They did
however both relocate to Bombay for a period of time to further their
cricketing ambitions.
Yeh sab flexible hai. :-)
-Samarth.
Aditya Basrur
Southpaw wrote:
> From Prabhu and Sadiq's posts on this thread, it appears Bombay
tennis
> is the true rival of Chennai cricket. Harsh Mankad: beat a few
Lebanese
> and Chinese players, but not taken a set off anyone of any repute. He
> has done what nobody else in the world has been able to do - make his
> father look positively world-class.
>
> It appears Vinoo Mankad's wife, in screwing him, screwed the whole
> country of some major sporting talent.
>
> Gaurav Natekar: a feather-weight both literally and figuratively. The
> Ajit Agarkar of tennis in terms of body-type. Won a few doubles for
> India, I think, mainly because his partner was one Leander Paes. Asif
> Ismail: well, at least he represented the country, even if he never
won
> a match in national colors. That's more than his father can say.
>
> Who else? Sandeep and Nitin Kirtane? IIRC they are from Pune, but
maybe
> they moved to Bombay or something. Perhaps Heeralal Pannalal's
advisor
> can get a grant to research Bombay tennis.
ROLF. Bad day, Samarth?
Aditya
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115144735.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> Mahesh Bhupathi: born in Chennai, moved elsewhere, but returned to join
> the Britannia Amritraj academy. Top-3 in doubles at one time, India's
> first Grand Slam winner, several doubles/mixed doubles Grand Slam
> titles... Together with Leander, took India to Davis Cup finals.
Hesh-Lee never reached anywhere close to the Davis Cup final, unless you
were referring to reaching Davis Cup world group and not actually the final
per se. The last time India reached Davis Cup final was in 1987 when Ramesh
Krishnan and Vijay Amritraj did the job.
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
Vig
> > If this Harsh bloke is only 1.62 metres tall, his performance is
> > understandable. Probably can't see over the net.
>
> Weight 45 kgs! He may well be the only player in the ATP men's top
> 100000 to weigh under 100 lbs.
Both figures *could* be wrong. Atleast as per this article, they are...
http://www.sportstaronnet.com/tss2701/stories/20040103004907800.htm
Southpaw
LOL at this article. In particular:
"Harsh's quiet confidence through highs and lows in the Mumbai week,
stretching to 13 sets over five days, brings into focus the new partner
in his life, Happy Bhalla, whose forte is psychology."
I thought the author was talking about his new girlfriend/wife. The
next sentence then read:
"The bearded New Yorker has been accompanying the Indian as coach since
the Davis Cup away tie against The Netherlands and was at hand for the
Futures."
-Samarth.
Take it easy
news:4277d...@x-privat.org:
I remember Ramesh and Leander taking India to Davis Finals, IIRC,
beating France in France and IIRC on clay court (french strength and
indian weakness). They beat some high ranked players (including Leconte
IIRC). No Bhupathi those days.
Takeiteasy (too many IIRCs).
>
> Cheers, Shishir
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
Shishir S. Pathak
news:Xns964B92BB598Fta...@127.0.0.1...
http://www.daviscup.com/about/championslist.asp
No sign of India in the list after 1987.
Yes, India did win that tie in France including the famous win over Henri
Leconte, but that was to reach QF.
http://sify.com/sports/others/great_moment/fullstory.php?id=13300720
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
Take it easy
>> I remember Ramesh and Leander taking India to Davis Finals, IIRC,
>> beating France in France and IIRC on clay court (french strength
>> and indian weakness). They beat some high ranked players
>> (including Leconte IIRC). No Bhupathi those days.
>
> http://www.daviscup.com/about/championslist.asp
>
> No sign of India in the list after 1987.
For me it was as good as reaching the finals :)
> Yes, India did win that tie in France including the famous win
> over Henri Leconte, but that was to reach QF.
To reach SF. One step below Finals :) I remembered it was pretty high
in the tournament.
Takeiteasy.
>
> http://sify.com/sports/others/great_moment/fullstory.php?id=1330072
> 0
>
> Cheers, Shishir
>
> <snip>
Andrew Dunford
Indeed, and in some case YRI.
You are thinking of 1993, when India defeated France in Cannes on clay in
the quarter-final (or first elimination round if you fancy). However they
were trashed by Australia on grass at Chandigarh in the semi-final.
Andrew
Southpaw
I thought it was at Frejus? Or is Frejus in Cannes/vice-versa?
-Samarth.
Andrew Dunford
Fair point - the tie was played in Frejus. I have simply fallen into that
really annoying habit of using the name of the nearest town/city of which
people may have heard. Frejus is sort-of near Cannes and Saint Tropez.
Andrew
Aditya Basrur
Andrew Dunford wrote:
> > I thought it was at Frejus? Or is Frejus in Cannes/vice-versa?
>
> Fair point - the tie was played in Frejus. I have simply fallen into
that
> really annoying habit of using the name of the nearest town/city of
which
> people may have heard. Frejus is sort-of near Cannes and Saint
Tropez.
And thus presumably not that far from Cap Ferrat either.
Aditya [ Who still remembers the sea front in Cannes vividly. ] Basrur
yeskay
Considering Dravid played a lot in Chennal club cricket, I think he can
be claimed for the CC
guest hall of fame, top of the list for all students of chennai cricket.
Southpaw
yeskay wrote:
<snip>
> Considering Dravid played a lot in Chennal club cricket, I think he
can
> be claimed for the CC
> guest hall of fame, top of the list for all students of chennai
cricket.
Dravid first played club cricket in Chennai after he was quite a
prominent player. After he had played FC cricket. He was hired as a
professional. He didn't go voluntarily to Chennai to "learn" cricket,
he was called on to improve his club's standing.
Kumble also played club cricket in Chennai, after he had already taken
100 test wickets for India. Srinath and Prasad, of course, attended MRF
PF. Azhar played club cricket in India for years as well.
-Samarth.
asi...@my-deja.com
Southpaw wrote:
> Azhar played club cricket in India for years as well.
>
> -Samarth.
Just heard that Bharat Rao bhai has taken a contract out on you. :-P
Cheers
Arun
Shishir S. Pathak
<snip>
> Kumble also played club cricket in Chennai
No wonder Gafoor and the student of Chennai cricket call him club-class.
Cheers, Shishir
PS: British Airways Club Class is nice and comfy.
<snip>
Uday Rajan
All fine individuals, I'm sure. Not their fault that they weren't
fortunate enough to win Ranji Trophies for Bombay, and therefore
aren't as special as Ashok Mankad. But seriously, there are a
number of Bombay fans of my vintage who have very fond memories
of Mankad, more so than most other ex-cricketers of that era.
prabh...@hotmail.com
France.
BTW, Rohan was born during the WI tour in 1975-76, Feb 20. IIRC Aditya
Srikkanth was born during Pak tour of 82-83.
hmm, there's a whole lot of tennis playing sons of cricketers. Ranji
dadas(Mankad, Venkat, Ismail) have spoilt brat kids taking to a richer
sport, I suppose :-) In late 80s, there was Vikram Venkataraghavan and
Vinay Venkatraghavan who were quite active. I guess they moved to US
for their undergrad. Then there was one Rafi Farooqui, I dunno which
state he is from. He was a contemporary of Altaf Merchant. Most of the
tennis kids those days faded out very fast after makign pretty good
money in their teens. Or migrated to US. There used to be rave reviews
of a kid called Suraj Sachidanand(when he was 8). He was spoken of as
incredible talent - disappeared totally. Then there was Aradhana Reddy
in 1991, won a few tournaments and highly touted. Vanished without a
trace. There was one guy called Siddharth Venkatesan whose dad Rabi
Venkatesan was a coach in the 70s. Sportstar had an interview with his
family once. Sid was in Madras Christian College High School before his
family migrated to Australia.
I thought Zeeshan Ali was one incredibly lucky guy - thanks to Akhtar
Ali! He got his first grand slam chance in Wimby 1989(against Wally
Masur!) and got fined as well for sporting an oversized logo on his
shirt!
Asif Ismail had a pretty strong serve and was beating Zeeshan by 1991.
I thought he and Paes might make a regular pair in 90s but Asif faded
away fast.
BTW, Rohit Rajpal was another big name those days. Won the Asian title
in 1990 and despite the hype, faded into oblivion. I assume Rajpal,
Asif and Lee were all in BAT.
Ramesh BTW played his first domestic tourney since 1977 in 1993, where
he lost to KG Ramesh(another unspectacular but steady domestic don) in
the semis.
Nirupama's dad Vaidyanathan was a Ranji offspinner who played in the
68-69 season. I am really surprised what Vasudevan was doing in 80s,
the guy was brought from Paris after Vijay's retirement, played
superbly on grass for a claycourter and regularly stretched better
opponents to five-setters, wonder why he didnt get a few doubles
atleast in 80s(definitely better than Anand Amritraj). Well doubles
wasnt really his forte - there was this onesided 87 Semifinal in DC
when Pat Cash and Peter Doohan pummelled a hapless Anand and Vasu,
Becker-bumper Doohan blasting 3 aces to wrap the match.
Prabhu [Lee must have slogged damn good to leave the rest behind]
prabh...@hotmail.com
gynecologist-commentator Suresh Saraiya? (Raju Bharatan attributed his
preference for "next delivery" in lieu of "next ball" to his profession
:-))
Gafoor
> yeskay wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Considering Dravid played a lot in Chennal club cricket, I think he
>> can be claimed for the CC
>> guest hall of fame, top of the list for all students of chennai
>> cricket.
>
> Dravid first played club cricket in Chennai after he was quite a
> prominent player. After he had played FC cricket. He was hired as a
> professional. He didn't go voluntarily to Chennai to "learn" cricket,
> he was called on to improve his club's standing.
>
> Kumble also played club cricket in Chennai,
Kumble played club cricket outside India through most
of the 90's.
dp
> Kumble played club cricket outside India through most
> of the 90's.
So did Sachin. Not just outside India, but inside India too. In fact,
not only Sachin, but everyone else too. They all played and continue to
play for a club called bcci.
dp
Cricketwallah
prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
US
> for their undergrad. Then there was one Rafi Farooqui, I dunno which
> state he is from. He was a contemporary of Altaf Merchant. Most of
Rafi was from Hyderabad, remember him well - we carpooled a couple
dozen times between tournaments in Bombay together :-) He was
maybe a year or two older than Altaf IIRC - basically a
Gaurav Natekar contemporary. Good chap, used to come down to
Bombay and stay with an aunt for the summer (as most of the
good players did) to play the "Bombay circuit" in the summer
hols at age-group level (starting with like the Bombay Gym
Tournament, going thru Shivaji Park Gym, Bandra Gym, couple
gyms in Andheri, Khar Gym - also known as the Marlex -, CCI
etc, and finally ending up with 2 tournaments in Pune). He
was a fine U14 level player, then about 15 or so he went to
BAT in the group with Natekar and the rest, and basically
vanished.
the
> tennis kids those days faded out very fast after makign pretty good
> money in their teens. Or migrated to US. There used to be rave
reviews
> of a kid called Suraj Sachidanand(when he was 8). He was spoken of as
> incredible talent - disappeared totally.
Dont think I remember him at all, actually.
> Then there was Aradhana Reddy
> in 1991, won a few tournaments and highly touted. Vanished without a
> trace. There was one guy called Siddharth Venkatesan whose dad Rabi
> Venkatesan was a coach in the 70s. Sportstar had an interview with
his
> family once. Sid was in Madras Christian College High School before
his
> family migrated to Australia.
>
Remember both these, sort of fringe names - not quite champs
at the age groups I dont think.
> I thought Zeeshan Ali was one incredibly lucky guy - thanks to Akhtar
> Ali! He got his first grand slam chance in Wimby 1989(against Wally
> Masur!) and got fined as well for sporting an oversized logo on his
> shirt!
>
Zeeshan was not lucky at all, he was very very good - best in
India by a long way. He was completely dominant at the age
group level, destroying competition wherever he faced them
(not surprising in a way, cos his father was the best coach
in India). FWIW, I once got beaten 7-0 by him (those were
best-of-thirteen-game matches) in a tourney, but was not
unhappy cos I actually got a couple of games to deuce :-) This
was at the U16 level - and the reason I wasnt unhappy was that
he won every match at love until the semis of that tournament,
and then won that like 6-0,6-1 (best of 3 sets by semis).
Won the final conceding like 3 or 4 games IIRC - there was
nobody who even close to getting a set off him in those
days at age-group level. When he was U16 he was easily the
best in the country, but was also the best in the country
at U18 level just about - and was competing in "Mens Singles",
reaching the semis of the nationals or some such IIRC.
His overwhelming dominance faded a bit with time, and he had
a few injuries etc too - but he was a national champion at
men's level too, for a while, and played Davis Cup etc.
Overall a very good career, really.
> Asif Ismail had a pretty strong serve and was beating Zeeshan by
1991.
> I thought he and Paes might make a regular pair in 90s but Asif faded
> away fast.
>
Asif came on much later, however. At age-group level he wasnt
good until about 18 or so (I remember practicing with him
often when he was 15/16). He improved greatly and very fast
when he turned entirely to tennis as a career. He sort of
faded, but that was because he moved on a bit - started
commentating, coaching etc, and thats a much more secure
livelihood than playing.
> BTW, Rohit Rajpal was another big name those days. Won the Asian
title
> in 1990 and despite the hype, faded into oblivion. I assume Rajpal,
> Asif and Lee were all in BAT.
>
Remember Rajpal too. Basically most people ended up in BAT, or
had credit taken by BAT :-) Its like the NCA's currently,
everyone who plays for India in 5 years time will have had
*some* connection with the NCAs. BAT only picked the best
players, who did very well in tournaments around the country
etc - and they often made mistakes. They turned down Asif,
for example, even at age 16 and 17 when he had improved a
fair bit - he played at Khar Gym and ended up improving
there. Eventually he shocked everyone by winninga national
title at age 18 IIRC - and like the day after he won and
became a "known name", he got an invitation from BAT to
attend their camp (mostly so they could take credit for
him in the Sportstar 2 weeks later IMHO :-) But the real
BAT guys went there often at age 12 or so, and lived there,
went to school there, trained there etc - they kept taking
new guys who won even when they were 13/14 etc. Most of these
guys ended up fading away. Asif only attended some BAT
camps, was not a BAT-guy at all in that sense. Lee was, but
only later - he got there when 14 or so IIRC (not the
original group, but was invited after he beat everyone to
win the national U14s IIRC, IIRC he was coached a bit by
Piperno before that).
> Ramesh BTW played his first domestic tourney since 1977 in 1993,
where
> he lost to KG Ramesh(another unspectacular but steady domestic don)
in
> the semis.
>
> Nirupama's dad Vaidyanathan was a Ranji offspinner who played in the
> 68-69 season.
Nirupama was around for a long time too - even came to
all-summer-long coaching camps at MSLTA in Bombay when she was
like 13 and 14. Everyone was at those camps, Natekar, Asif
Ismail, Rafi etc - which is why everyone basically knows
each other pretty well.
>
> Prabhu [Lee must have slogged damn good to leave the rest behind]
Well, he was very good - came out of nowhere to win U14s
basically, and was good ever since. But not *dominant* at
age-group level IMHO, not like, say, Zeeshan was in his
day. But then not everyone takes up tennis as a profession,
most dont actually (and also Lee had a certain athleticism,
could play the power-game a bit more etc - someone like Harsh
maybe cant. Dont know Harsh that well, but his brother Mihir
was a national-level player and he *certainly* was not a
power-player at all, and thus would not have translated at
world level IMHO. Makes much more sense to use tennis as
a tool to do other things - he went to Stanford, and tennis
probably faded as a priority after that).
Very few really good juniors prioritize tennis in that way,
especially in India. It takes too much time, and India is a
pretty crap tennis-playing country really, has been basically
since the Amritraj's left (Ramesh IMHO was the rare
exception, I dont even consider Lee an exception, he is much
more of a doubles guy to me, never been anything in singles
at all, and Davis Cup doesnt count in that regard to me).
It doesnt really make sense to prioritize tennis IMHO, not
in India. Nowdays, as Mihir/Harsh have shown (Harsh IMHO is
an exception), it makes more sense to use it as a tool - maybe
get a scholarship to university in the USA and take it from
there. Quite a few have done that lately, and some have just
gone into other fields and play tennis only for fun nowadays.
Others have stuck with tennis a little bit, and do some
coaching in the US etc too. But hardly anyone wants to
take the time to make it a full-time gig.
Lee was very good in the Indian context, but he is one of
the few guys who made the full committment to stick to tennis
too - hardly any other really good U16/U18 players do. Even
getting a scholarship in the US isnt a full committment in
the same sense - you have to do both academics and tennis
here (it isnt like football, where you just play football
and forget about going to class :-) Going pro leaves all
your time entirely for tennis, but its a very risky thing
to do (and most of the time not a smart thing to do,
probably), and most just dont do it.
Sadiq [ we wont have another Vijay for
20+ yrs more at least, IMHO ] Yusuf
Cricketwallah
Southpaw wrote:
> >From Prabhu and Sadiq's posts on this thread, it appears Bombay
tennis
> is the true rival of Chennai cricket. Harsh Mankad: beat a few
Probably true - Bombay tennis players are usually very good
at age-group level, but most of them fade away by the time
the men's tournaments roll around. Most just stop playing
that seriously, with academics or business etc taking precedence,
hardly any seem to go on (Harsh is one of the first few I
can think of, actually, and I dont know how seriously he's
taking it either). This is also because there hasnt really
been anyone of the talent level of Vijay or Ramesh of
course - but then thats true thru the country.
>
> Gaurav Natekar: a feather-weight both literally and figuratively. The
> Ajit Agarkar of tennis in terms of body-type. Won a few doubles for
> India, I think, mainly because his partner was one Leander Paes. Asif
> Ismail: well, at least he represented the country, even if he never
won
> a match in national colors. That's more than his father can say.
>
Natekar was a much better age-group player than later - was
never really a good men's player as such at all I dont think.
His game wasnt really ever suited to it either, never did have
a power-game. Asif had a power-game but started very late in
tennis - did amazingly well for a short period, but then
went into commentary and coaching etc. Much more reliable
livelihood, that, especially if youre an Indian tennis
player.
> Who else? Sandeep and Nitin Kirtane? IIRC they are from Pune, but
maybe
> they moved to Bombay or something. Perhaps Heeralal Pannalal's
advisor
> can get a grant to research Bombay tennis.
>
Both Pune guys, never really moved to Bombay I dont think.
Came to Bombay for coaching camps etc thru all summer,
but then everyone did that (players from across the country,
including Nirupama, Lee IIRC etc). They all usually played
the Bombay circuit too, from age U14 onwards. But none of
them ever moved there I dont think.
> OTOH, it appears Chennai tennis is the true rival of Bombay cricket.
> Ramanathan Krishnan was among the top 10 players in the world in his
> era. Reached Wimby semis couple of times. Ramesh Krishnan and Vijay
> Amritraj were both top-25 players who won ATP tour titles, and made
> Grand Slam quarters several times. Together they also led India to a
> Davis Cup final in 1987.
>
You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
longer period IMHO. Also, Vijay led India to *two* Davis
Cup finals - once with Ramesh when he was old (one in which
we were shocked to reach the finals and had no chance once
there, sort of like the last cricket World Cup :-), and once
when he was young, with his brother, when we would have
actually *won* the Davis Cup. But unfortunately the government
decided to give a walkover in the Davis Cup Finals when we
would have been favourites (it was our best-ever chance, we
wont win a Davis Cup in my lifetime now IMHO, unless none
of the top players play anymore - which I suppose could
happen). Also Vijay was an outstanding doubles player,
with his brother he did brilliantly well in the 70s in
doubles too.
> Then there is Leander Paes who was born and raised in Calcutta, but
> moved to Chennai when he was 12-13 to join the Britannia Amritraj
> tennis academy, and further his tennis career. Where does one start
> with him? Top-100 in the world in singles, top-5 in doubles at one
> time, Davis Cup legend, Olympic bronze medalist (India's first medal
of
> any hue in 16 years), several Grand Slam doubles and mixed doubles
> titles, junior Wimbledon champ...
>
IIRC he moved to Madras after winning the U14s actually - not
"late" per se, but not the earliest BAT was taking people.
He was invited only after winning a national title, as were
a few others (OTOH, BTW, people like Gaurav Natekar were
at BAT without ever winning a national title, he was actually
in the very first BAT batch IIRC, along with Rafi Farooqui
etc - Natekar has at least as much connention to BAT than
Lee, probably more).
> Mahesh Bhupathi: born in Chennai, moved elsewhere, but returned to
join
> the Britannia Amritraj academy. Top-3 in doubles at one time, India's
> first Grand Slam winner, several doubles/mixed doubles Grand Slam
> titles... Together with Leander, took India to Davis Cup finals.
>
Hardly a Davis Cup finals :-) They did remarkably well given
their abilities IMHO, but they werent a patch on the
Amritraj's and Krishnan's. Vijay, especially, was a generally
known international player, heck of a player. To me, Lee is
still mostly a doubles specialist - he really needed to
translate something into singles, but never could.
> Not to mention that among women, Coimbatore native Nirupama
> Vaidyanathan was the first Indian to win a round in a Grand Slam
> tournament, and reached #160ish in the world rankings, in the
pre-Sania
> days.
>
She only became good cos she did summer camps in Bombay at
the MSLTA since age 13 or so, however :-) (Acutally, she
only really became good after hanging out with us in
Evanston, was engaged to good buddy :-) The turning point
in her career came when this particular Bombayite dropped
her to Midway Airport on her way to a tournament - that
magical touch enabled her to win her grand slam singles
match only a few months later :-) Seriously, actually,
followed that first-round game on the Aussie Open site
live, hitting refresh about every 4.9 seconds. One of my
happier internet sports moments :-)
Sadiq [ a la recherche du tennis perdu ] Yusuf
> -Samarth.
Southpaw
Cricketwallah wrote:
<snip>
[Re: Leander]
> IIRC he moved to Madras after winning the U14s actually - not
He must've won the U14s when he was 12 or so then. Because he studied
upto 5th std. in Calcutta, and from 6th std. onwards at the Madras
Christian College High School in Chetput, Chennai. Or maybe he was 13
y/o in 5th std. after flunking a few years.
Both the BAT and the MRF-PF are located within the campus of this
school, BTW. A trip to that school ca. 1990 may have resulted in your
seeing Ravi Shastri facing up to Srinath in the MRF-PF nets (Shastri
spent a month there to try and get back into the Indian team after
missing the '90 NZ tour, and again in '92 after his injury), and
Leander sparring with Vijay Amritraj a stone's throw away.
-Samarth.
Sanjiv Karmarkar
> Southpaw wrote:
> > Gaurav Natekar: a feather-weight both literally and figuratively.
The
> > Ajit Agarkar of tennis in terms of body-type. Won a few doubles for
> > India, I think, mainly because his partner was one Leander Paes.
> Natekar was a much better age-group player than later - was
> never really a good men's player as such at all I dont think.
FYI, Gaurav Natekar is the son of Nandu Natekar, the great badminton
player. Nandu Natekar was another world-class badminton player who
played a generation before Prakash Padukone. Not as good as Prakash of
course, but still world class.
> > Who else? Sandeep and Nitin Kirtane? IIRC they are from Pune, but
> > maybe they moved to Bombay or something.
> Both Pune guys, never really moved to Bombay I dont think.
Correct. The Kirtane's are Pune boys all the way as were the Jagdale
Bros. The Deccan gymkhana has always produced a good number of tennis
players; the most famous of course is Nandan Bal. Nandal Bal was a
very exiting player in addition to being phenomenally handsome. He
could have become a huge star with his looks and his style of play, but
IMO really did not have the will or the training to make it at the
international circuit. Met him last summer, he now weighs about 250
lbs! I Have had pleasure of playing with most these guys. The Jagdale
Bros are now in NY btw, the younger one doing investment banking for an
elite bank!
> > OTOH, it appears Chennai tennis is the true rival of Bombay
cricket.
> > Ramanathan Krishnan was among the top 10 players in the world in
his
> > era. Reached Wimby semis couple of times. Ramesh Krishnan and Vijay
> > Amritraj were both top-25 players who won ATP tour titles, and made
> > Grand Slam quarters several times. Together they also led India to
a
> > Davis Cup final in 1987.
Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times, and was a really good player
on the circuit. He was as good as they come, but simply did not have
the "killer instinct". One big difference in Mumbai cricket and
Chennai tennis though; Mumbai cricket has produced players that are
truly among the world's best. For instance, Tendulkar and Gavaskar
were one of the top 3 players in the world for a long time, and were
arguably #1 for a length of period. Ramesh, Ramanathan, and Vijay -
although good - never reached those heights.
> You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
> guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
> IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
> longer period IMHO. A
I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon, but
everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
actually a top 10 player for a long time. As a matter of fact, when he
came up on the scene, people were talking about the future ABC of
cricket: Amritraj, Borg, and Connors. And of those 3, most felt that
Vijay had the most talent. Unfortunately, the general consensus is
that he had no competitive spirit or what they call the "killer
instinct". Had the great pleasure of meeting him at the US open a
couple of years ago, shook his hand, and took his autograph!
Sanjiv
Trapper
> I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon, but
> everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
> actually a top 10 player for a long time. As a matter of fact, when he
> came up on the scene, people were talking about the future ABC of
> cricket: Amritraj, Borg, and Connors. And of those 3, most felt that
> Vijay had the most talent. Unfortunately, the general consensus is
> that he had no competitive spirit or what they call the "killer
> instinct". Had the great pleasure of meeting him at the US open a
> couple of years ago, shook his hand, and took his autograph!
He was too well balanced in his life for his own good as a player
prabh...@hotmail.com
Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
>
>
> > You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
> > guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
> > IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
> > longer period IMHO. A
>
> I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon,
but
> everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
> actually a top 10 player for a long time.
Vijay was past his peak by the time I started following but I am really
surprised to read all this. Was he really as *good* as you guys making
him to be? I do remember he had this four setter(lost 4th set tiebreak)
over Borg in 1979 or 1981, but he was over the hill by the mid 70s I
guess. His best of Quarters at Wimby '73 came about coz all the pros
boycotted that particular year(Final had Jan Kodes-Alex Metreveli and
Chris Evert-Olga Morozova, is this the mom/coach of Natalia Zvereva?)
He was damn good in those wins over Wilander(Bangalore 85),
Jaite(Jaipur 87) and Masur(Sydney 87), those were incredible ones
really but besides that nothing great. And BTW, I think Lendl beat
Ramesh in Junior Wimby 78, Ramesh won Junior Wimby 1979, and thence
they went totally different routes.
prabh...@hotmail.com
both belong to the same management.
prabh...@hotmail.com
any insider info on Indu Saraiya which I asked yesterday? :)
BTW, we missed out Divya Merchant(any relation to Altaf?) who even
featured in a Brittania ad around '86-87 types. Disappeared quickly.
Suraj Sachidanand was a Bangalorean who cracked the whip in the
under-10s.
BTW, there used to be a longish rivalry in the mid 80s between Bela
Pandit and Radhika Krishnan in the women's nationals. Came to know
several years later that Radhika was Ramesh's sister! Right now,
Nanditha Krishnan is making a few headlines but most likely, will fade
out. Much like Deepika Padukone who vanished after an initial flurry.
I still dont agree with the views on Zeeshan though. Ok, he had some 4
consecutive titles or so from 86-89 but did precious little even in the
satellite tourneys in india. Regularly kept losing in the final to
outsiders after pulping all the Indians :-) There was one Frenchman
Jean-Phillipe Fleurian who got the measure of him every time in the
final. And Fleurian was essentially a claycourter! Zeeshan's only win
was when Fleurian defaulted due to injury. I think Fleurian stopped
Becker or some bigshot in FO '92.
prabh...@hotmail.com
Leander-Gabrichidze clashes around 91-92. Leander took off in doubles
though. However Karim Alami(lost to Lee, US Open Jr, 91) and Marcus
Ondruska(Wimby Jr 90) went on to have better careers.
Cricketwallah
prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Sadiq,
> any insider info on Indu Saraiya which I asked yesterday? :)
>
Nope, not from me.
> BTW, we missed out Divya Merchant(any relation to Altaf?) who even
> featured in a Brittania ad around '86-87 types. Disappeared quickly.
Didnt miss out Divya at all, just didnt think others had even
heard of her :-) No relation to Altaf, instead the sister of
Jay (a phenomenally good player at age 12 etc, among the best
by far of anyone, but his dominance declined as he got older
and he also went off in other directions, was a Cathedralite
as was Divya. Knew Jay pretty well, used to talk cricket with
him at the tennis grounds most of the time :-) He was the
young phenom before Divya was, she was 4-5 years younger at
least, but there is far less competition among the girls
anyway so she was truly dominant while she played. But, on
relation to Altaf by any of them (actually, if youre looking
for a relation of Altaf... youre talking to him ;-)
> Suraj Sachidanand was a Bangalorean who cracked the whip in the
> under-10s.
> BTW, there used to be a longish rivalry in the mid 80s between Bela
> Pandit and Radhika Krishnan in the women's nationals. Came to know
> several years later that Radhika was Ramesh's sister! Right now,
> Nanditha Krishnan is making a few headlines but most likely, will
fade
> out. Much like Deepika Padukone who vanished after an initial flurry.
>
Yes, all of them were outclassed by Nasreen Shujatali soon
enough however (another dominant age-group player of the
time, remember once watching her play this one tournament
where she won the U16s, won the U18s, and lost in the finals
of the womens in 3 sets :-)
> I still dont agree with the views on Zeeshan though. Ok, he had some
4
> consecutive titles or so from 86-89 but did precious little even in
the
And 4 consecutive national titles can be disregarded how? :-)
This was a time when nobody from India did anything
internationally anyway - he was the best of hte bunch by
a long way. Also had injury issues etc. If he had decided to
become a doubles-specialist like Lee he might have done just
as well, who knows, but not everyone goes that route - and he
didnt. Tried for singles, didnt quite get there, and then
basically didnt play that much after that.
> satellite tourneys in india. Regularly kept losing in the final to
> outsiders after pulping all the Indians :-) There was one Frenchman
> Jean-Phillipe Fleurian who got the measure of him every time in the
> final. And Fleurian was essentially a claycourter! Zeeshan's only win
> was when Fleurian defaulted due to injury. I think Fleurian stopped
> Becker or some bigshot in FO '92.
Fleurian turned into a very fine player down the road - watched
him in the Satellites a few times and was surprised how well
he turned out. He was just a better player, basically, losing
to him wasnt particularly surprising IMHO.
Sadiq [ tennis was actually fun in those days ] Yusuf
Andrew Dunford
<prabh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115347489.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> >
> >
> > > You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
> > > guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
> > > IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
> > > longer period IMHO. A
> >
> > I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon,
> but
> > everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
> > actually a top 10 player for a long time.
>
> Vijay was past his peak by the time I started following but I am really
> surprised to read all this. Was he really as *good* as you guys making
> him to be? I do remember he had this four setter(lost 4th set tiebreak)
> over Borg in 1979 or 1981, but he was over the hill by the mid 70s I
> guess. His best of Quarters at Wimby '73 came about coz all the pros
> boycotted that particular year(Final had Jan Kodes-Alex Metreveli and
> Chris Evert-Olga Morozova, is this the mom/coach of Natalia Zvereva?)
Vijay also reached the Wimbledon quarter-finals as late as 1981,
establishing a two-set lead over Jimmy Connors before losing.
Incidentally, the earlier post about him once reaching the Wimbledon
semi-finals is true, ish. He and his brother made the semi-finals (or in
Indian English, entered the semi-finals) of the doubles.
I recall a few epic Davis Cup encounters between India and New Zealand, back
in the days when NZ had some half-decent players: Onny Parun & Brian Fairlie
winning at Lucknow in 1975 and again the following year in Auckland. The
usual pattern was that Vijay would win his singles matches, Anand would lose
his and NZ would win the doubles. The teams met again in New Delhi a couple
of years later, by which time Chris Lewis and Russell Simpson were on the
scene, and Vijay Amritraj was absent for some reason.
NZ's three wins in the 70s have now been matched by three India victories
this century.
<snip>
Andrew
Aditya Basrur
Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> Cricketwallah wrote:
> > Southpaw wrote:
>
> > > Gaurav Natekar: a feather-weight both literally and figuratively.
> The
> > > Ajit Agarkar of tennis in terms of body-type. Won a few doubles
for
> > > India, I think, mainly because his partner was one Leander Paes.
>
> > Natekar was a much better age-group player than later - was
> > never really a good men's player as such at all I dont think.
>
> FYI, Gaurav Natekar is the son of Nandu Natekar, the great badminton
> player. Nandu Natekar was another world-class badminton player who
> played a generation before Prakash Padukone. Not as good as Prakash
of
> course, but still world class.
Are you going to tell us that Prakash Padukone is a Maharashtrian who
happened to settle in Bangalore as well, in an attempt to wipe out the
odour of his Chitrapur Saraswat ancestry?
> I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon,
but
> everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
> actually a top 10 player for a long time. As a matter of fact, when
he
> came up on the scene, people were talking about the future ABC of
> cricket: Amritraj, Borg, and Connors. And of those 3, most felt
that
> Vijay had the most talent. Unfortunately, the general consensus is
> that he had no competitive spirit or what they call the "killer
> instinct". Had the great pleasure of meeting him at the US open a
> couple of years ago, shook his hand, and took his autograph!
How did he smell?
Aditya
Cricketwallah
prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> >
> >
> > > You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
> > > guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
> > > IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
> > > longer period IMHO. A
> >
> > I don't believe Vijay ever made it to the Semi's of the Wimbledon,
> but
> > everything else you say about him is absolutely correct. Vijay was
> > actually a top 10 player for a long time.
>
> Vijay was past his peak by the time I started following but I am
really
> surprised to read all this. Was he really as *good* as you guys
making
> him to be? I do remember he had this four setter(lost 4th set
tiebreak)
> over Borg in 1979 or 1981, but he was over the hill by the mid 70s I
> guess. His best of Quarters at Wimby '73 came about coz all the pros
> boycotted that particular year(Final had Jan Kodes-Alex Metreveli and
> Chris Evert-Olga Morozova, is this the mom/coach of Natalia Zvereva?)
>
He was very good in his day. I sort of mis-typed the "semis
of Wimbledon IIRC" part - I do remember him not making the
semis of Wimbledon, but I had meant to type "semis of
grand-slam". I *think* he made the semis of the Aussie
Open (though, really, its debatable whether most even
considered it a "grand slam tournament" in those days).
One didnt pay much attention to the Aussie Open in those
days, but for some reason I think he might have gotten to
a semis there.
As for Wimbledon, he made quarters - a couple of times at
least, maybe 3? The last time was in 1981, when he led
Connors 2 sets to love in the quarters, and lost in 5.
(Connors then went on to lead Borg by 2 sets to love in
the semis, only to also lose in 5. I remember reading some
idiotic articles then that claimed it was the end of
Connors, and he would maybe retire in a year or so - how
wrong they were :-) Connors won 2 Grand Slam titles only
a year later). Also had a couple of US Open quarters
IIRC.
To me, Ive been on both sides of this issue (ie Vijay). I
think he was overrated by most Indian in the day - but we
always do that to all our players IMHO (as we have done, to
a large extent, to Lee and Hesh recently). OTOH, I think
nowadays he is underrated by most.
He was IMHO never one of the "top 3" as such - the ABC of
tennis, very commonly spoken of, was IMHO mostly just spoken
of in India (and by maybe one or two other commentators very
early in the 1970s). It was something abandoned long before,
Vijay was never really part of any "Big Three" as such (if
there was a Big Three in the 70s, it was Borg-Connors-Vilas,
certainly not Vijay. And fourth might well have been Vitas
Geruliatis).
OTOH, Vijay was very good. He was IMHO the best of the Indians -
Ramanathan, IMHO, played in a different era so its hard to
even consider that, the competition level was different.
It changed by the late 60s or so, the Open Era. In that
era, Vijay was our best-ever. He was consistently good,
reached 2 or 3 Wimbledon quarters, won a few tournaments,
was always highly ranked. His peak was in the Top 10 I
think, as mentioned. But he was highly ranked for a very
long time - even as late as the 1980s, with Borg, Connors,
Mac, Vilas, Vitas, Lendl appearing etc... even then, he was
still about 20 in the world. And he was an outstanding doubles
player, one of the best around (not the top of the league, but
thats because good tennis players actually played doubles
in those days unlike now - Mac was a regular doubles player,
even Connors and Borg had played some doubles early in the
1970s, and someone like Peter Fleming, later considered a
pure doubles-specialist, was once in the Top 10 in the
world in singles too!) To me Ramesh Krishnan never made
it to quite that level - he got to Top 20, he too reached
the QFs of Wimbledon etc, but IMHO he didnt do it as often
or as long as Vijay. Wasnt a top-level player for quite as
long, and was not IMHO the same level threat to the top
players either that Vijay was seen as on occasion.
Vijay had a couple of Wimbledon quarters, a couple of
US OPen quarters - and was still considered to have
under-achieved in Grand Slams in general. He had like a
dozen tournament wins in singles around the world - more
than Ramesh by a bit IIRC (and these werent "satellite"
wins either).
Since then, nobody has come close. People have done well
in doubles, but we now live in a time where tennis pays so
well that most players who are even reasonably good dont
bother to play doubles (this was beginning to start in
the 80s). But nobody has approached being even Top 20 in
tennis in singles, leave alone Top 10 - and nobody has
gotten to a quarters of Wimbledon and had a 2-set lead
in the quarters against one of the legends of the sport.
> He was damn good in those wins over Wilander(Bangalore 85),
> Jaite(Jaipur 87) and Masur(Sydney 87), those were incredible ones
> really but besides that nothing great. And BTW, I think Lendl beat
> Ramesh in Junior Wimby 78, Ramesh won Junior Wimby 1979, and thence
> they went totally different routes.
By the mid to late 80s Vijay was well past his peak, but was
still showing some terrific individual wins. His really good
days were well behind him, however. In the 70s and early
80s he was very good - solid Top 15 in the world on a
pretty consistent basis.
If youre looking for the closest example today.. it might
be someone like Henman. Good player, solidly Top 15 or
whatever a lot of the time, threatens at Wimbledon but
hasnt really gotten to that final step, has won about a
dozen tour titles over the years or so.
Sadiq [ it took 23 yrs for an Asian to reach as
high in the rankings as Vijay had once been ] Yusuf
asi...@my-deja.com
I was expecting an honorable mention of Vijay's Davis cup skills. That
in itself helped him become one of the most beloved sportspersons in
India.
Cheers
Arun
Southpaw
This is Madras Christian College.
the Chetpet school is Union Christian, and
> both belong to the same management.
AFAIK, it was always known as MCCHS i.e. Madras Christian College High
School. My father is an alumnus of this school. Junior to N. Ram (of
Hindu fame), same batch as Anand Amritraj, older than Vijay Amritraj.
My father and uncle (also an alumnus) always refer to the school as
Madras Christian College High School (MCCHS). When school cricket
scores are reported in the paper also the school is referred to as
MCCHS. At least when I was involved in school cricket 15 years back...
MCCHS and us were frequently in the same pool, and we would follow our
draw closely obviously.
-Samarth.
gane...@gmail.com
Cricketwallah wrote:
.
, he made quarters - a couple of times at
> least, maybe 3? The last time was in 1981, when he led
> Connors 2 sets to love in the quarters, and lost in 5.
I have'nt forgotten that. This was 81 and the 9 pm TV news had Vijay
leading by 2 sets to luv. ( in fact he was up by a break in the third).
You wake up in the morning, grab the Times of India and see that Vijay
had put in his choke act.
> (Connors then went on to lead Borg by 2 sets to love in
> the semis, only to also lose in 5.
A match of incredible quality, rather forgotten because of the final.
> > He was damn good in those wins over Wilander(Bangalore 85),
he beat Wilander in straight sets at the Cubon Courts. I remember a
very young Stefan Edberg watching the game from the sidelines and
taking in all he could.
We should have beaten the Swedes that year. Two years later we were up
against them in the Cup finals at Gotenberg on clay and it was almost
mission impossible.
Krishnan Sr's insistence on Ramesh completing his Bachelors degree,
may have something to do with Ramesh not realising the potential he
showed by being the No 1 Jnr in 79.
-Ganesh
Nate
> Cricketwallah wrote:
> > Southpaw wrote:
>
>
If you go by the ATP rankings Vijay never cracked into top 10. His best
he came up was #16 in 1980. The only last player to get into top 10 was
Paradorn Srichapan #9 on 05/12/2003, who now has fallen below 25 now.
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playernumber=A022
Vijay's best finishes in grand slams were QF appearances in Wimbledon
and USO.
Has scalped top players like Bjorg, Connors and McEnroe a few good
times.
Southpaw
Nate wrote:
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> > Cricketwallah wrote:
> > > Southpaw wrote:
> >
> >
> > Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times,
>
> If you go by the ATP rankings Vijay never cracked into top 10. His
best
> he came up was #16 in 1980. The only last player to get into top 10
was
> Paradorn Srichapan #9 on 05/12/2003, who now has fallen below 25 now.
>
>
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/playerprofiles/default2.asp?playernumber=A022
>
> Vijay's best finishes in grand slams were QF appearances in Wimbledon
> and USO.
> Has scalped top players like Bjorg, Connors and McEnroe a few good
> times.
IIRC, Ramesh Krishnan's highest ATP ranking was 23, right after he won
an ATP tour tournament in Tokyo or something ca. 1986. He beat Andres
Gomez the finals in that tournament. Ramesh Krishnan also scalped some
top-ranked players in his time, notably then world #1 and top-seed Mats
Wilander in Aus Open 2nd round in 1989. (Then, with an easy draw in
front of him, he lost to Mexican Leonardo Lavalle in 3rd round
GRRRR!!!)
-Samarth.
prabh...@hotmail.com
> prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > You underestimate Vijay - he was very good, even a semis
> > > > guy at Wimbledon IIRC (and quarters more than once). And he
> > > > IIRC made top 10 even, he was better than Ramesh for a
> > > > longer period IMHO. A
> > >
Here is Vijay's record in Big Four. Pretty ordinary figures really.
1972 - - 2ND 1ST
1973 - - QF QF
1974 - 3RD 2ND QF
1975 - - 2ND 2ND
1976 - - 2ND 1ST
1977 - - 2ND 1ST
1978 - - 2ND 1ST
1979 - - 2ND 2ND
1980 - - 1ST 3RD
1981 - - QF 3RD
Here is the no of tournaments won and win-loss record. Ordinary again.
1972 0 1-3
1973 0 12-4
1974 0 13-7
1975 0 5-4
1976 1 23-18
1977 0 9-11
1978 1 16-11
1979 0 27-19
1980 2 42-20
1981 0 27-19
1982 0 13-15
You can give him some latitude for his Davis Cup record though.
Considering the string of R2 defeats in Wimby, he is waaaay behind
Henman!
Southpaw
Southpaw wrote:
> prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Nitpick: MCC is in Tambaram,
>
> This is Madras Christian College.
>
> the Chetpet school is Union Christian, and
> > both belong to the same management.
>
> AFAIK, it was always known as MCCHS i.e. Madras Christian College
High
> School. My father is an alumnus of this school. Junior to N. Ram (of
> Hindu fame), same batch as Anand Amritraj, older than Vijay Amritraj.
N. Ram was the cricket captain of MCCHS during those days BTW, and
their team was supposedly quite strong (unlike these days :-)). My dad
was perpetual 12th man.
Years later, when I was barely a teen-ager, we met N. Ram at a social
function. My father introduced him to me as "his" captain. He then
proceeded to rhapsodize about his cricketing exploits: "... opening
batsman... scorching cover drives... grounds in those days were much
bigger... yada, yada, yada." N. Ram was beaming, probably pleasantly
surprised that someone even remembered his cricketing deeds from
school. My dad wouldn't stop: "... flamboyant left-handed
strokeplayer... successive hundreds..."
Then suddenly Ram's grin dropped from his face. He interrupted my dad
with, "Harish, I used to bat right-handed."
We teased my father about that for weeks afterward.
My father has vivid memories of Anand Amritraj. He was very popular
because of his tennis exploits. My father was, well... a lowly 12th man
in the cricket team.
-Samarth.
Southpaw
Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
<snip>
> Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times, and was a really good
player
> on the circuit. He was as good as they come, but simply did not have
> the "killer instinct". One big difference in Mumbai cricket and
> Chennai tennis though; Mumbai cricket has produced players that are
> truly among the world's best. For instance, Tendulkar and Gavaskar
> were one of the top 3 players in the world for a long time, and were
> arguably #1 for a length of period. Ramesh, Ramanathan, and Vijay -
> although good - never reached those heights.
<Shrug> Easier for an Indian to be #2 or #3 in the world in cricket
than to be #20 in tennis IMO, given the relative popularity of the two
sports in India. India as a whole is #3 in the world in cricket, not
that far from #2. Not surprising that one of the 3rd best team's best
players is among the best players in the world. OTOH, in tennis, as a
whole, India is hardly among the top dozen countries in the world.
Maybe we should get Heeralal Pannalal to research Chennai Chess. First
Indian IM in Manuel Aaron, first Indian GM in Viswanathan Anand, now
the latest Indian GM in Sasikiran... Even your "one of the top 3
players in the world for a long time" criterion is satisfied. :-)
-Samarth.
Southpaw
Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
<snip>
> Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times, and was a really good
player
> on the circuit. He was as good as they come, but simply did not have
> the "killer instinct". One big difference in Mumbai cricket and
> Chennai tennis though; Mumbai cricket has produced players that are
> truly among the world's best. For instance, Tendulkar and Gavaskar
> were one of the top 3 players in the world for a long time, and were
> arguably #1 for a length of period. Ramesh, Ramanathan, and Vijay -
> although good - never reached those heights.
<Shrug> Easier for an Indian to be #2 or #3 in the world in cricket
prabh...@hotmail.com
prabh...@hotmail.com
David Davidar(Penguin CEO) was 1974 or 1975 Botany batch. Nirmal
Shekhar was Zoo/Chem 1974 or 75 batch as well. NS mentioned in 2000
Bumper Issue of Sportstar about listening on radio to the Foreman-Ali
Zaire fight of 74 from his hostel room.
That explains Ram being sports editor of Hindu/SS in mid 70s. There is
this article by Ram on Greenidge before the 74-75 tour, proclaiming GG
to be a future world beater. How right he was.
AFAIK, the Chetpet school was always UC. But the UC boys always had a
reputation of adopting the MCC brand name, much like Ambarnath/Karjat
folks calling themselves Bombayites :-)
Southpaw
prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Interestign stories those. Do you know exactly which batch was N.Ram?
High School: Probably '66 or earlier. Don't know where he went to
college, when he graduated, and stuff.
Heh. Completely forgot abt Union Christian in my previous post, in
discussing N. Ram. Union Christian is on Nowroji Road, MCCHS is on
Harrington Road, both in Chetput. The latter has the same management
(same name!) as MCC Tambaram, not the former.
Both BAT and MRF-PF are definitely on the campus of the latter, not the
former. You can find MRF-PF's address on Google as Harrington Rd., and
also MCCHS's. (In case you want proof; I have been to the place many
times with my father, so you could just choose to take my word for it.
:-)) Also, BAT was on the MCCHS campus because that was the Amritraj
brothers' alma mater, and their mother, Margaret Amritraj, was very
close to the MCC mgmt.
-Samarth [ Maggie Amritraj once made the cover of The Sportstar ].
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115409046.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Southpaw wrote:
>> prabhu_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > Nitpick: MCC is in Tambaram,
>>
>> This is Madras Christian College.
>>
>> the Chetpet school is Union Christian, and
>> > both belong to the same management.
>>
>> AFAIK, it was always known as MCCHS i.e. Madras Christian College
> High
>> School. My father is an alumnus of this school. Junior to N. Ram (of
>> Hindu fame), same batch as Anand Amritraj, older than Vijay Amritraj.
I was under the impression that N. Ram studied in Madras Communist College
before moving on to JNU Delhi and then finally getting a doctorate from the
Stalin Socialist Indoctrination University in Beijing.
A hardcore communist playing an imperial game that promotes class divide?
Unthinkable.
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
Aditya Basrur
Shishir S. Pathak wrote:
> I was under the impression that N. Ram studied in Madras Communist
College
> before moving on to JNU Delhi and then finally getting a doctorate
from the
> Stalin Socialist Indoctrination University in Beijing.
Even though you're being facetious, that's unlikely. Stalinism and
Maoism are quite different brands of Communism, though both claim
descent from Marx. (By the 1980s, IIRC, relations between Russia and
China were quite strained. As another example, India was always quite
friendly with Russia, but went to war with China. Some of the
differences between India and China have been ideological, although I
recognise that situational politics has had its role too.)
> A hardcore communist playing an imperial game that promotes class
divide?
> Unthinkable.
Well, though Guha destroyed his Cricket library during his Communist
days, I think he still secretly followed matches. Also, Philby, Blunt
and McLean (IIRC) weren't entirely averse to Cricket. Maybe this was
part of the facade of spying.
Aditya [ The match-referee's absolute control over penalties
is a bit like a cultural revolution, surely. ] Basrur
prabh...@hotmail.com
Southpaw wrote:
> -Samarth [ Maggie Amritraj once made the cover of The Sportstar ].
Certainly not. I think you are referring to the centerspread! This was
after the win over Jaite.
prabh...@hotmail.com
Well, though Guha destroyed his Cricket library during his Communist
days, I think he still secretly followed matches.
Thank GRV's 222 for that :-)
Sanjiv Karmarkar
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> > Cricketwallah wrote:
> > > Southpaw wrote:
> >
> >
> > Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times,
>
> If you go by the ATP rankings Vijay never cracked into top 10. His
best
> he came up was #16 in 1980. The only last player to get into top 10
was
> Paradorn Srichapan #9 on 05/12/2003, who now has fallen below 25 now.
Jeez; how one's memory decieves you after a few years. I thought he
was in top 10 in the late 70s for sure. Blink often fails; with due
respect to Gladwell! (-: Thanks for the correction.
> Vijay's best finishes in grand slams were QF appearances in Wimbledon
> and USO.
> Has scalped top players like Bjorg, Connors and McEnroe a few good
> times.
Yep; he would beat a top player in one round, and then lose to someone
unknown in the next.
Sanjiv
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115470430.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OT
>
> Shishir S. Pathak wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression that N. Ram studied in Madras Communist
> College
>> before moving on to JNU Delhi and then finally getting a doctorate
> from the
>> Stalin Socialist Indoctrination University in Beijing.
>
> Even though you're being facetious, that's unlikely. Stalinism and
> Maoism are quite different brands of Communism, though both claim
> descent from Marx. (By the 1980s, IIRC, relations between Russia and
> China were quite strained. As another example, India was always quite
> friendly with Russia, but went to war with China. Some of the
> differences between India and China have been ideological, although I
> recognise that situational politics has had its role too.)
India didn't go to war with China. It was the other way round.
India's friendship with the former Soviet Union and the current Russia and
the strained relations with the PRC have very little to do with ideology or
the so-called different brands of communism practised in these two
countries.
China harboured (harbours?) expansionist ambitions towards India while the
Russians were happy to be just friends and supply tonnes of armament.
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
CiL
yeah and he didnt destroy the books.. gave it to Mudar Patherya
++++++++++
I picked up a reprint of C.L.R. James's Beyond a Boundary. It cost me
four rupees. I had already read the book (a copy lay in my college
library), and have read it almost every year since. It must surely be
the greatest work written on any sport. It has spawned an extensive
and mostly tedious critical literature, which I have no wish to add
to. Suffice it to say that years later, when my first child was born,
and I returned from the hospital to an empty home where the enormity
of the event hit me, I read, as consolation and stimulation, my
favourite chapter from Beyond a Boundary.
The James was the only volume I retained when in 1980 I disposed of my
cricket books. I had begun a Ph.D. in sociology in Calcutta, and
converted to Marxism. Books were property, and property (I now
understood) was theft. Besides, cricket and other sports were pursuits
that kept the masses away from the class struggle. Sensibly, I did not
sell the collection but identified a suitable person to give it to.
This was Mudar Patherya, a talented young cricket writer then with the
Telegraph of Calcutta. I met him, briefly explained the collection's
strengths, and obtained his consent to paying the freight charges from
my home in northern India. For 750 rupees Mr. Patherya came into the
possession of what might have been among the most hard won of all
cricket libraries.
As it happened, in a year or two I was rid of Marxism and had returned
to cricket. In Delhi on a research visit, I found the National
Archives closed on account of a festival. Returning to my uncle's, I
switched on the television and found that a Test match was on and that
my boyhood hero, G.R. Viswanath, was batting on 60 not out. Watching
cricket led, inevitably, to once again reading about it. The habit had
proved impossible to kick.
CiL
++ Guha
Meanwhile, Mr. Patherya himself has abandoned cricket. After writing
two or three books on the sport, he has become a successful trader in
stocks and shares. On my next visit to Calcutta I must make a bid for
his (or my) collection.
+++=
alvey
> On 7 May 2005 08:58:33 -0700, prabh...@hotmail.com wrote:
snip
> Meanwhile, Mr. Patherya himself has abandoned cricket. After writing
> two or three books on the sport, he has become a successful trader in
> stocks and shares. On my next visit to Calcutta I must make a bid for
> his (or my) collection.
> +++=
Why don't you try converting him to Marxism?
alvey
Southpaw
Yes, centerspread, sorry. Realized shortly after I posted that.
-Samarth.
Sanjiv Karmarkar
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> > One big difference in Mumbai cricket and
> > Chennai tennis though; Mumbai cricket has produced players that are
> > truly among the world's best. For instance, Tendulkar and Gavaskar
> > were one of the top 3 players in the world for a long time, and
were
> > arguably #1 for a length of period. Ramesh, Ramanathan, and Vijay
-
> > although good - never reached those heights.
>
> <Shrug> Easier for an Indian to be #2 or #3 in the world in cricket
> than to be #20 in tennis IMO, given the relative popularity of the
two
> sports in India. India as a whole is #3 in the world in cricket, not
> that far from #2. Not surprising that one of the 3rd best team's best
> players is among the best players in the world. OTOH, in tennis, as a
> whole, India is hardly among the top dozen countries in the world.
Bah! Tennis is no soccer, or even Basketball and baseball. The world
over, it continues to be very much of an expensive sport, played
regularly by a very few. Like they say; Polo is for the nobs, Tennis
is for the snobs! Although more countries play tennis than cricket,
very few people in those countries actually play tennis at any level of
seriousness.
The reason why India is #3 in cricket but not in Tennis or Badminton is
the quality of the Indian players; which leads back to my original
point. It is not as if India is not in top dozen in Tennis and
therefore Indian players are not in top 20. It is exactly other way
around. India is not in top dozen in tennis *because* Indian players
are not in top 20. In cricket, Indian players are ranked higher and
therefore the national team as a whole is ranked higher.
Sanjiv
Southpaw
LOL! I guess that explains Bombay's solid tennis infrastructure then.
:-) As touted by RSC's beloved junior tennis player - i.e. snob - Sadiq
Yusuf. :-) As compared to Chennai, whose tennis infrastructure consists
of a couple of families, and a couple of academies.
Although more countries play tennis than cricket,
> very few people in those countries actually play tennis at any level
of
> seriousness.
As is the case in India. IMO, if there are a 100 sports-loving kids in
India, 90 will more interested in cricket than tennis, and only 9
vice-versa. 30 of the 90 interested in cricket will have access to
proper cricket infrastructure, training, facilities, guidance, etc.
OTOH only 1 of the 9 interested in tennis will have access to proper
training.
(Obviously not the exact figures, I pulled these out my ass :-), but
you the general idea.)
Hence, the frequency of world-class Indian tennis players is much less
than that of world-class Indian cricket players IMO.
> The reason why India is #3 in cricket but not in Tennis or Badminton
is
> the quality of the Indian players; which leads back to my original
> point. It is not as if India is not in top dozen in Tennis and
> therefore Indian players are not in top 20.
I only meant that there is a correlation between the two, not that the
former is the reason for the latter. I agree that it is the players who
make the world ranking, but IMO, the real reason for the world ranking
is the infrastructure/publicity that drew the players in the first
place.
The number of world-class players produced must hence be normalized
over the infrastructure IMO.
It is exactly other way
> around. India is not in top dozen in tennis *because* Indian players
> are not in top 20. In cricket, Indian players are ranked higher and
> therefore the national team as a whole is ranked higher.
The players are merely the instruments. The high rank of the cricket
team, as opposed to the tennis "team", is because of the popularity of
the sport in India, as I mentioned in the first line of my previous
post. If someone driven like Rahul Dravid had somehow had his interest
in tennis piqued as a kid, and had access to the right training, he
would be leading Indian tennis into the top-10 in the world. As it
happened, he got interested in cricket, and led Indian cricket into the
top-3 in the world. Hence, I think the players are merely the
instruments. The real reason India is high-ranked goes back to the
popularity of the sport, and the existing infrastructure IMO.
In general, world-class Indian cricketers are product of the system.
OTOH, the Krishnans and the Amritrajs *bucked* the system in becoming
world-class - a greater achievement IMO. Paes is a product of the
system, but what a sacrifice he had to make in moving all the way to
Madras from Calcutta at the age of ~12, to get access to proper
training! A bigger sacrifice IMO than moving to Bombay from Aurangabad
or to Bangalore from Gadag or to Chennai from Madurai, and that too in
one's late teens.
I keep hearing people say that cricket is to India what soccer is to
South America. IMO, we have then grossly under-achieved in cricket.
OTOH I think we have over-achieved in tennis, given our lousy
infrastructure. The world-class players have literally come from
nowhere. I recall all the hand-wringing about India's tennis future as
Vijay/Ramesh started to age. Yet, from somewhere emerged Paes/Bhupathi,
and arguably, achieved even more than Vijay/Ramesh albeit only in
doubles.
Incidentally, Paes/Bhupathi were among the top 2/3 in doubles, and as a
team were even #1 for a time, hence fulfilling your original
requirement, no?
-Samarth.
>
> Sanjiv
Gafoor
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
>> Cricketwallah wrote:
>>> Southpaw wrote:
>>
>>
>> Actually, Vijay was in top 10 many times,
>
> If you go by the ATP rankings Vijay never cracked into top 10. His
> best he came up was #16 in 1980. The only last player to get into top
> 10 was Paradorn Srichapan #9 on 05/12/2003,
The last player to get into the Top 10 was in 2003?
What has happened since then?
Currently, I see Federer at #1, Nadal at #2, Ferrer at #10 etc?
Did they all get into the Top 10 before 2003 & remain there since
then?
gane...@gmail.com
> Sanjiv Karmarkar wrote:
> Are you going to tell us that Prakash Padukone is a Maharashtrian who
> happened to settle in Bangalore as well, in an attempt to wipe out
the
> odour of his Chitrapur Saraswat ancestry?
since Basur is putting a plug for his portion of coastal Karnataka with
Padukone, let me talk about some others from the Kanara coast in case
others try to claim them too as odor escaping Maharashtrian's
Mangalore born and still having a residence there - Ravi Shastri
Mangalore born and very proud of her South Kanara heritage
- Aishwarya Rai
----------------
Ganesh P Shetty
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115625162....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Is she a good cricketer? A bonda bowler who hits the deck perhaps?
Cheers, Shishir
Shishir S. Pathak
<snip>
> Paes is a product of the
> system, but what a sacrifice he had to make in moving all the way to
> Madras from Calcutta ...
Then there are those who'd tell you that moving *anywhere* from Calcutta is
a blessing. Even to Ongar, Sussex.
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
Andrew Dunford
<prabh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115042321.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Looks like for quite a few years,india's davis cup team will have vijay
> amritraj's son prakash and ashok mankad's son harsh playing the
> singles.
> Both have an abysmal record. Harsh particularly has wins over some
> Lebanese and chinese and yet to take a set off the others:
> http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?Player=30015476
>
> Pretty unfortunate that we are piss-poor in singles. Get Sania to play!
Enough of all this OT tennis mullarkey. Name me a Wimbledon men's singles
champion and Davis Cup winner who also played first-class cricket.
Andrew
shani
pat cash???
prabh...@hotmail.com
Shishir S. Pathak
news:1115702918.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Pat Cash would have been an interesting addition to the Aussie side after
Mark Taylor's retirement. With a name like that, he'd have been a shoo-in
in the Australian slip cordon, the other members being Mark Waugh and Shane
Warne.
Cheers, Shishir
Andrew Dunford
<prabh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115746609.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Fred Perry it is
The answer is not Fred Perry or Pat Cash.
Andrew [Nastase? McEnroe?]
Mr Raphes
Anthony Wilding.
Andrew Dunford
"Mr Raphes" <karl.r...@vodafone.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1115762001.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Well done. You win the prize, which is to set the next question.
Anthony Frederick Wilding
b. 31 October 1883 at Christchurch, New Zealand
d. 9 May 1915 at Neuve Chapelle, France
Wimbledon: men's singles champion 1910, 1911, 1912, 1913; men's doubles
champion 1907, 1908, 1910, 1914.
Davis Cup: member of winning Australasia team 1907, 1908, 1909, 1914
Olympic Games: bronze medal, men's singles, Stockholm 1912
Cricket: two matches for Canterbury in 1900/01 and 1901/02, scoring 60 runs
at 20.00 and taking 3 wickets at 17.33. His father Frederick played for
Canterbury and New Zealand between 1881/82 and 1899/00 and is regarded as
one of the 'fathers' of cricket in Christchurch.
Andrew
Southpaw
Andrew Dunford wrote:
<snip>
> Well done. You win the prize, which is to set the next question.
This is RSC. Get with the program. The standard RSC practice when
someone has done exceedingly well is to ask that he retire "gracefully"
when at the top of his game. When people are asking "why?" rather than
"why not?".
You should be demanding that the OP never post again to RSC.
-Samarth.