Mike Gooding: This is Your Post
alvey
thread as I believe this has some considerable potential.
alvey
------------------------------------------------------------
alvey <alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bm0sr9$h9lgt$1...@ID-155113.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> Mike Gooding wrote:
>>
>
>>> >
>>> > If Aus hadn't taken the lead in twattish behaviour, there wouldn't be
>>> > any need for them to "take the lead" in stopping it.
>
>>
>> I'd like to see something more specific from you re exactly how Aust
>> took "...the lead in twattish behaviour...".
>>
There's been a lot of pussyfooting around this subject in here, people
saying Oh there's always been sledging in the game, it's just that
it's more noticeable now with more intrusive cameras and microphones.
Well, I'm here to tell you that's all just rubbish; there's always
been gamesmanship, as you'd expect in any game, but there was none of
the slack-jawed misbehaviour (otherwise known as ‘mental
disintegration') in the game until it was regularized in the Chappell
era, or we would have heard about it. You don't after all, need a
parabolic microphone to know that the shower of spittle McGob sent
over Sarwan wasn't hiding a compliment; you don't need stumpcam to
prove that bats are being thrown at batsmen, or that Slater was giving
an Indian batsman and an umpire a pretty hard time when his appeal was
turned down, or to get the gist of the send-off Fatboy Slim gave
Andrew Hudson. If any such incident had happened before TV, we'd
still know about it, because it would have been obvious to Blind
Freddy. Was WG a sledger ? Of course he wasn't. Did he use
gamesmanship ? Of course he did. Did the Australian team lead us
into an era in which McGrath's, Slater's, Warne's behaviour is
tolerated by their captains ? Of course they did. Will they lead us
out of it ? Maybe, but I hope without the self-congratulatory
sanctimonious one-eyed drivel that usually surrounds an Australian
taking the high moral ground.
Mike Gooding
------------
Actually Gooding, I think you're here to make an absolute bloody fool of
yourself. And I'll tell you so at some length in the near-future, but
for the present I must away.
alvey
Jan Buxton
> Was WG a sledger ? Of course he wasn't.
"Verbal exchanges were no rarity in Victorian cricket, especially when
any of the Grace clan were playing...The two worst offenders were W.G.
and E.M., who both fielded close to the bat and whose constant
commentary caused many a batsman's concentration to falter."
Simon Rae, 'It's Not Cricket' p171
The same chapter also mentions many incidents which precede Chappelli,
namely,
Glamorgan vs Worcs in the 50s, Wilf Wooler gives novice Peter Richardson
a 'tongue-lashing'
Surrey vs West Indies 1957 which upset Worrell so much that he 'will not
even regard them as any sort of a /cricket team/'
Plus of course Grace's infamous running out of Sammy Jones in 1882,
prompted an Australian ear bashing.
--
Jan
This is London, not Antartica
So why don't the tubes run all night?
You are my girlfriend, not Molly Ringwald
So why won't you stay here tonight?
kenhiggs8
Don't you mean you'll be ringing around your CCCCCQ friends in order
to muster support to defend this latest dastardly attack on Australian
cricketing integrity?
Boofhead Watch
who notes that Steve Waugh, Australia's newest No.5 batsman, has
rather backed away from the 'mental disintegration' claims, now that
it's being associated with sledging
>
>
>
> alvey
alvey
snip
>
>
> There's been a lot of pussyfooting around this subject in here, people
> saying Oh there's always been sledging in the game, it's just that
> it's more noticeable now with more intrusive cameras and microphones.
> Well, I'm here to tell you that's all just rubbish; there's always
> been gamesmanship, as you'd expect in any game, but there was none of
> the slack-jawed misbehaviour (otherwise known as ‘mental
> disintegration') in the game until it was regularized in the Chappell
> era, or we would have heard about it.
*We* actually have heard about it. And you would've too had your head
not been firmly stuck up your arse. In the 1970's Bradman was asked if
sledging had existed in his day. He replied that he'd only ever played
in one series without it, 1932/33. Grace sledged. And what was FST
talking to all those batsmen about?
You don't after all, need a
> parabolic microphone to know that the shower of spittle McGob sent
> over Sarwan wasn't hiding a compliment; you don't need stumpcam to
> prove that bats are being thrown at batsmen, or that Slater was giving
> an Indian batsman and an umpire a pretty hard time when his appeal was
> turned down, or to get the gist of the send-off Fatboy Slim gave
> Andrew Hudson. If any such incident had happened before TV, we'd
> still know about it, because it would have been obvious to Blind
> Freddy. Was WG a sledger ? Of course he wasn't.
Fuck me! Another blithering idiot who not only knows what goes on during
current matches but also what happened a hundred years ago! That time
machine Holmans uses must be a two seater.
> Did he use gamesmanship ? Of course he did. Did the Australian team lead us
> into an era in which McGrath's, Slater's, Warne's behaviour is
> tolerated by their captains ? Of course they did.
[Idiot Alert: The Dingbat warning light on my newsreader always flashes
red when it reads this 'Put a Question and then Answer it Yourself'
technique.]
And any idiot could list a few unsavoury instances of poor behaviour by
*any* team to make an absurd sweeping statement, but it takes a really
special kind of fuckwit to make your last statement. Where on earth is
there anything to support your stupid, stupid assertion? And if you want
to talk about captains behaviour Gooding then perhaps you could reflect
on how in recent times; one England captain was caught ball-tampering,
and he wasn't even a bowler for fuck's sake! Another indulged in a nose
to nose shouting match with an umpire in a Test match, another has
walked out of a press conference and another was called Botham. All
misdemenors being the fault of Australians were they? "Of course they
are." Idiot.
> Will they lead us
> out of it ? Maybe, but I hope without the self-congratulatory
> sanctimonious one-eyed drivel that usually surrounds an Australian
> taking the high moral ground.
I don't know of anyone who's ever denied that Australians sledge, but
your frothing, baseless & tabloid-fuelled pov that all poor behaviour is
the fault of the post-Lawry Australia is a memorably idiotic statement.
Garry Sobers states that the nastiest match he ever played in was for
the touring West Indians v Surrey in the late 1950's. Racial abuse being
a particular feature of the merry Surrey lads sledging. Or were they
really Australian imposters? And tell me Gooding, how did Australians
made Snow shoulder charge SMG? Or how did we make Boycott throw his bat
down in a tanty when given out. I'd be very interested to learn of the
connections. I'd also be keen to hear your doubtless interesting reasons
on why Australia isn't #1 on the ICC Bad Boys calendar.
Fine, Australians sledge, no question about it (although for some
strange reason we don't seem to have practiced it during the 1980's), so
does everybody. Get over it, get on with it, and on a personal front,
try not to make such an arse of yourself in future.
alvey
in brisbane, noting that three players from the Pak v RSA have just been
reported for various offences. Perhaps you could offer your skills as
their defence counsel? I'm sure that your central theme of "It's all Ian
Chappell's fault" will get the result it deserves.
Cricketislife!
<alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In the 1970's Bradman was asked if
>sledging had existed in his day. He replied that he'd only ever played
>in one series without it, 1932/33. Grace sledged. And what was FST
>talking to all those batsmen about?
Alvey this is what Bradman said on sleding in a interview
"
"I played under Alan Kippax in New South Wales for some time, I played
under Jack Ryder in the Test series in 28-29, I played under Bill
Woodfull in 1930 until he retired, and I captained the side until I
retired. And in the whole of that time, I don't recall one single
incident of sledging. It never occurred, and it would not have
occurred because it would not have been allowed, not one of those
captains would have allowed it. If it had happened under me I would
have given the fellow one warning, and if it had happened again I
would have made sure he was not selected again.... it never went on in
my day, not at all, and I don't think it should happen now."
Not that I am disagreeing with your other view that its just not
Australians who sledge, nearly every country does it.
Cricketislife!
<cricke...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:39:10 +1000, alvey
><alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>In the 1970's Bradman was asked if
>>sledging had existed in his day. He replied that he'd only ever played
>>in one series without it, 1932/33. Grace sledged. And what was FST
>>talking to all those batsmen about?
>
>Alvey this is what Bradman said on sleding in a interview
>
>"
>"I played under Alan Kippax in New South Wales for some time, I played
>under Jack Ryder in the Test series in 28-29, I played under Bill
>Woodfull in 1930 until he retired, and I captained the side until I
>retired. And in the whole of that time, I don't recall one single
>incident of sledging. It never occurred, and it would not have
>occurred because it would not have been allowed, not one of those
>captains would have allowed it. If it had happened under me I would
>have given the fellow one warning, and if it had happened again I
>would have made sure he was not selected again.... it never went on in
>my day, not at all, and I don't think it should happen now."
Aarggghh!! Alvey Dont bother replying, let me try myself!
In Brisbane noting that the webbot is spamming himself. Mr
CricketisWife! note, I think my story of Bradman probably refers
sledging against him by other countries. So we were angels that time,
it was the bloody poms and others who were doing it, Whoa...!
kenhiggs8
> alvey wrote:
>
> snip
> >
> >
> > There's been a lot of pussyfooting around this subject in here, people
> > saying Oh there's always been sledging in the game, it's just that
> > it's more noticeable now with more intrusive cameras and microphones.
> > Well, I'm here to tell you that's all just rubbish; there's always
> > been gamesmanship, as you'd expect in any game, but there was none of
> > the slack-jawed misbehaviour (otherwise known as ‘mental
> > disintegration') in the game until it was regularized in the Chappell
> > era, or we would have heard about it.
>
> *We* actually have heard about it. And you would've too had your head
> not been firmly stuck up your arse. In the 1970's Bradman was asked if
> sledging had existed in his day. He replied that he'd only ever played
> in one series without it, 1932/33. Grace sledged. And what was FST
> talking to all those batsmen about?
>
Yet Bradman said that sledging never occured when he played, and that
any player who sledged under him would've had a short career.
So, let's get this straight.
You're prepared to make up non-existent quotes from leading players in
order to back up your theories?
Doesn't that make you, by your own definition, a liar?
Or has Core Dump removed Bradman's post?
> You don't after all, need a
> > parabolic microphone to know that the shower of spittle McGob sent
> > over Sarwan wasn't hiding a compliment; you don't need stumpcam to
> > prove that bats are being thrown at batsmen, or that Slater was giving
> > an Indian batsman and an umpire a pretty hard time when his appeal was
> > turned down, or to get the gist of the send-off Fatboy Slim gave
> > Andrew Hudson. If any such incident had happened before TV, we'd
> > still know about it, because it would have been obvious to Blind
> > Freddy. Was WG a sledger ? Of course he wasn't.
>
> Fuck me! Another blithering idiot who not only knows what goes on during
> current matches but also what happened a hundred years ago! That time
> machine Holmans uses must be a two seater.
>
I understand the Queensland version is registered as a 12 seater.
Moby used it just the other day to tell us all exactly what happened
out in the middle of the RSA/Pak game.
Mind you, I think he had troubles with the settings, he went back too
far and Pollock was still captain.....
> > Did he use gamesmanship ? Of course he did. Did the Australian team lead us
> > into an era in which McGrath's, Slater's, Warne's behaviour is
> > tolerated by their captains ? Of course they did.
>
> [Idiot Alert: The Dingbat warning light on my newsreader always flashes
> red when it reads this 'Put a Question and then Answer it Yourself'
> technique.]
>
> And any idiot could list a few unsavoury instances of poor behaviour by
> *any* team to make an absurd sweeping statement, but it takes a really
> special kind of fuckwit to make your last statement. Where on earth is
> there anything to support your stupid, stupid assertion? And if you want
> to talk about captains behaviour Gooding then perhaps you could reflect
> on how in recent times; one England captain was caught ball-tampering,
> and he wasn't even a bowler for fuck's sake! Another indulged in a nose
> to nose shouting match with an umpire in a Test match, another has
> walked out of a press conference and another was called Botham. All
> misdemenors being the fault of Australians were they? "Of course they
> are." Idiot.
>
Trouble is, the likes of you and your CCCCCQ Boofheads really oughn't
to comment on sledging, because you really don't understand what it
is.
I suggest you go and ask any passing Indian.
If 'ball tampering' and 'walking out of press conferences' are your
idea of sldeging, when performed by opponents, how come you're so
quick to defend St. Hayden Of The Dressing Room Door?
> > Will they lead us
> > out of it ? Maybe, but I hope without the self-congratulatory
> > sanctimonious one-eyed drivel that usually surrounds an Australian
> > taking the high moral ground.
>
> I don't know of anyone who's ever denied that Australians sledge, but
> your frothing, baseless & tabloid-fuelled pov that all poor behaviour is
> the fault of the post-Lawry Australia is a memorably idiotic statement.
> Garry Sobers states that the nastiest match he ever played in was for
> the touring West Indians v Surrey in the late 1950's. Racial abuse being
> a particular feature of the merry Surrey lads sledging. Or were they
> really Australian imposters? And tell me Gooding, how did Australians
> made Snow shoulder charge SMG? Or how did we make Boycott throw his bat
> down in a tanty when given out. I'd be very interested to learn of the
> connections. I'd also be keen to hear your doubtless interesting reasons
> on why Australia isn't #1 on the ICC Bad Boys calendar.
>
I understand that a Surrey man was heard to shout (in the privacy of
the dressing room) 'fucking black cunts'.
I understand an infant Darren Lehmann was present and was permanently
scarred.....
> Fine, Australians sledge, no question about it (although for some
> strange reason we don't seem to have practiced it during the 1980's), so
> does everybody. Get over it, get on with it, and on a personal front,
> try not to make such an arse of yourself in future.
>
>
But you and yours are continually denying they ever do.
McGrath was quite entitled, Smith made up a pack of lies, Vaughan
boldly crossed a line that no Australian would ever boldly cross...
>
>
> alvey
> in brisbane, noting that three players from the Pak v RSA have just been
> reported for various offences. Perhaps you could offer your skills as
> their defence counsel? I'm sure that your central theme of "It's all Ian
> Chappell's fault" will get the result it deserves.
As has already been noted, they transgressed, got fined, they had it
coming.
A welcome change from Australian bleating 'it's not fair', 'it wasn't
us', 'everyone picks on us'........
Boofhead Watch
Mike Gooding
FST, ffs, would pass remarks to the batsman and his own fielders in
the heat of the moment, not as a matter of course. Snow
shoulder-charged SMG in the heat of the moment ? I?m pretty sure he
never routinely abused batsmen. Sir Geoffrey threw his bat down; no
doubt you think this was a part of his well-known tactic of mentally
disintegrating the opposing bowlers. I?ve never heard, or read,
anything from Bradman that suggests that sledging was common in his
day ? just the opposite, in fact; the worst I heard from him was the
statement on his ABC tapes that the two Bodyline teams never exchanged
a word on the field. As for captains, Kim Hughes presided over one of
the most unpleasant tours ever in 1981, according to reports (no, I
can?t find them, but anyway this was the 1980s and obviously the Aus
team were angels then). I don?t recall AB ever trying to get
Goodolemerve or Fatboy to shut their mouths; I do remember Mark Taylor
trying to get things more under control, and we?ve all seen Stevie?s
influence on his team?s behaviour, to the degree that even the
Australian team themselves seem to be getting the point, if the report
in The Age is true. Gatting behaved very badly, and out of character,
in Pakistan ? was it also a regular tactic of his to go nose to nose
with opposition batsmen, or to allow his bowlers and fielders to
indulge in abuse ? I?m talking about sledging here, in any case -
abusing an umpire, although unforgivable, doesn?t constitute sledging;
neither does walking out of a press conference or fixing the ball.
I?ve never said that the Australians have the monopoly on sledging.
We all know everyone does it. What the Australians did, though, was
to elevate it to a tactic, beginning with ? yes ? Chappelli. Other
teams have followed suit, presumably because they see it as part of
being hard, rather than just twattish; hence the code being drawn up
by the ACB, which will no doubt be accompanied by the aforementioned
sanctimonious drivel in the Aus press, provided they can find time out
from pressing Matty?s claim for sainthood.
You won?t find me trying to defend the actions of any routinely
abusive Englishman just because he?s the same nationality as me -
spot the difference ?
Mike Gooding
------------
kenhiggs8
> By, I do enjoy a good stir.
> FST, ffs, would pass remarks to the batsman and his own fielders in
> the heat of the moment, not as a matter of course. Snow
> shoulder-charged SMG in the heat of the moment ? I?m pretty sure he
> never routinely abused batsmen. Sir Geoffrey threw his bat down; no
> doubt you think this was a part of his well-known tactic of mentally
> disintegrating the opposing bowlers. I?ve never heard, or read,
> anything from Bradman that suggests that sledging was common in his
> day ? just the opposite, in fact; the worst I heard from him was the
> statement on his ABC tapes that the two Bodyline teams never exchanged
> a word on the field. As for captains, Kim Hughes presided over one of
> the most unpleasant tours ever in 1981, according to reports (no, I
Well,
you've just shot yourself in the foot there.
Everyone knows there was no Australian tour in 1981....
hugs
Higgsy
alvey
> By, I do enjoy a good stir.
First impressions are always important. So getting the very first
character of a post wrong is not good.
> FST, ffs, would pass remarks to the batsman and his own fielders in
> the heat of the moment, not as a matter of course.
Not what I've read. But then you'd know.
> Snow shoulder-charged SMG in the heat of the moment ? I?m pretty sure he
> never routinely abused batsmen.
You'd know.
> Sir Geoffrey threw his bat down; no
> doubt you think this was a part of his well-known tactic of mentally
> disintegrating the opposing bowlers. I?ve never heard, or read,
> anything from Bradman that suggests that sledging was common in his
> day ? just the opposite, in fact; the worst I heard from him was the
> statement on his ABC tapes that the two Bodyline teams never exchanged
> a word on the field. As for captains, Kim Hughes presided over one of
> the most unpleasant tours ever in 1981,
This is the very first time I've *ever* heard this claim. Still, you'd know.
> according to reports (no, I
> can?t find them, but anyway this was the 1980s and obviously the Aus
> team were angels then).
Unlike you, I don't know. What I do know though is that Aust weren't
winning much in that decade and, by an amazing co-incidence, Oz sledging
didn't rate a mention then. There's two possible reasons there. I'm
betting we'll pick different ones.
> I don?t recall AB ever trying to get
> Goodolemerve or Fatboy to shut their mouths;
You'd know. (And of course having thousands of pommies singing "you fat
bastard... at MGH isn't sledging is it?)
> I do remember Mark Taylor trying to get things more under control,
You'd know.
> and we?ve all seen Stevie?s
> influence on his team?s behaviour,
You'd know.
> to the degree that even the
> Australian team themselves seem to be getting the point, if the report
> in The Age is true. Gatting behaved very badly, and out of character,
> in Pakistan ? was it also a regular tactic of his to go nose to nose
> with opposition batsmen, or to allow his bowlers and fielders to
> indulge in abuse ? I?m talking about sledging here, in any case -
> abusing an umpire, although unforgivable, doesn?t constitute sledging;
> neither does walking out of a press conference or fixing the ball.
Gooding, you say you're "talking about sledging here" yet you originally
listed specific examples of Australian bad behaviour which you connected
to this allegedly unique Oz sledging ethos. I countered with similar
examples of English behaviour but these, according to you, are mostly
done in the "heat of the moment", or are "out of character". Is that the
foul stench of fetid double-standards I detect? Or is the smell coming
from those unwashed Union Jack underpants on your head?
Further, one can only wonder why in your feeble attempts to excuse all
the Poms Behaving Badly incidents I've quoted you've not really
mentioned the two worst episodes of the lot. The game-long racial
sledging by Surrey against the Windies in 1957(?) which, which according
to my calendar, was before IM Chappell even debuted in the Sheffield
Shield, and Atherton's ball tampering effort. A ploy which, unlike
sledging, is indisputably illegal and for a non-bowling captain to be
practicing it, is damning evidence of a pre-meditated, illegal team
tactic. Is cheating not as bad as sledging then?
>
> I?ve never said that the Australians have the monopoly on sledging.
> We all know everyone does it. What the Australians did, though, was
> to elevate it to a tactic, beginning with ? yes ? Chappelli.
Nope. WG Grace. "Yes?". Whoops! Silly me! You'd know.
> Other teams have followed suit,
You'd know.
Actully for all you know sledging could've started with Alfred Mynn.
> presumably because they see it as part of
> being hard, rather than just twattish;
You'd know.
> hence the code being drawn up
> by the ACB, which will no doubt be accompanied by the aforementioned
> sanctimonious drivel in the Aus press, provided they can find time out
> from pressing Matty?s claim for sainthood.
I realise that you have little knowledge or use for facts but here's a
couple of minor corrections anyway.
1) The ACB no longer exists. It is now Cricket Australia. Has been for a
while now.
2) The Code that CA has drawn up is pointless window dressing.
3) I don't recall reading a single article on MLH's achievement which
has been unqualified, SL-genre praise. In fact one piece in, surprise
surprise, the Sydney Morning Herald was downright derogatory and
insulting. Still, you'd know best as you have the big advantage of being
able to read the tabloids as you wipe your arse with them. Your head
being in such close proximity 'n all.
>
> You won?t find me trying to defend the actions of any routinely
> abusive Englishman just because he?s the same nationality as me -
> spot the difference?
Nope. 'Fraid I just can't tell you apart from any of the other rabid,
foaming, irrational, fact-challenged, braying nitwits who ignore or
excuse their own team's behaviour and bleat on and on and on about a
part of Aust's game which is universally practiced and which no-one who
actually plays seems to mind.
That's if it's sledging your talking about now and not some "heat of the
moment" or "out of character" actions.
And FFS Gooding, if you want to attempt to present some sort of readable
argument, try using a question mark *only* when it's a fucking question.
Otherwise people may mistake you for a blithering pissed idiot rather
than some slow-witted soul who's spent some considerable time drafting
up this wending, waning & woeful whine in another package whose ' gets
converted to ? and whose author is too dopey to notice.
alvey
in brisbane, wondering why so many of these intellectually-challenged
posters who complain about Aust sledging actually sledge in their own
posts?
Mike Gooding
> Mike Gooding wrote:
> > By, I do enjoy a good stir.
>
> First impressions are always important. So getting the very first
> character of a post wrong is not good.
>
> > FST, ffs, would pass remarks to the batsman and his own fielders in
> > the heat of the moment, not as a matter of course.
>
> Not what I've read. But then you'd know.
Good comeback.
>
> > Snow shoulder-charged SMG in the heat of the moment. I'm pretty sure he
> > never routinely abused batsmen.
>
> You'd know.
Good comeback.
>
> > As for captains, Kim Hughes presided over one of
> > the most unpleasant tours ever in 1981,
>
> This is the very first time I've *ever* heard this claim. Still, you'd know.
Good comeback.
>
> You'd know. (And of course having thousands of pommies singing "you fat
> bastard... at MGH isn't sledging is it?)
That's correct – it would be sledging if a number of English players
were singing along, but they weren't.
>
> > and we've all seen Stevie's
> > influence on his team's behaviour,
>
> You'd know.
Good point - OK then, everyone but Alvey has seen Stevie's influence
on his team's behaviour.
>
> > I'm talking about sledging here, in any case -
> > abusing an umpire, although unforgivable, doesn't constitute sledging;
> > neither does walking out of a press conference or fixing the ball.
>
> Gooding, you say you're "talking about sledging here"
Sledging, to me, is continued use of abuse aimed at the batsman by
fielders.
> yet you originally
> listed specific examples of Australian bad behaviour which you connected
> to this allegedly unique Oz sledging ethos.
Then I withdraw them. And I've never said it was 'uniquely
Australian'.
> I countered with similar
> examples of English behaviour but these, according to you, are mostly
> done in the "heat of the moment", or are "out of character". Is that the
> foul stench of fetid double-standards I detect? Or is the smell coming
> from those unwashed Union Jack underpants on your head?
Strangely, no. Snow charging SMG was out of character because I can't
recall any other incident involving Snow. Lillee vs Miandad was not
out of character on either side. That's why I chose Snow, Boycott and
Gatting, who went up to the line in hard, as opposed to FOT, who
regularly stepped over it
into twattishness.
>
> Further, one can only wonder why in your feeble attempts to excuse all
> the Poms Behaving Badly incidents I've quoted you've not really
> mentioned the two worst episodes of the lot. The game-long racial
> sledging by Surrey against the Windies in 1957(?)
If this happened, then it was unforgiveable, just like the taunting of
the Windies by the Convicts in 1975.
> which, which according to my calendar, was before IM Chappell even debuted in
> the Sheffield Shield, and Atherton's ball tampering effort.
As I said "...abusing an umpire, although unforgivable, doesn't
constitute sledging; neither does walking out of a press conference or
fixing the ball..."
> A ploy which, unlike
> sledging, is indisputably illegal and for a non-bowling captain to be
> practicing it, is damning evidence of a pre-meditated, illegal team
> tactic. Is cheating not as bad as sledging then?
A pre-meditated, illegal team tactic ? Did the entire England team
have their
hands in Atherton's pockets ?
> >
> > I've never said that the Australians have the monopoly on sledging.
> > We all know everyone does it. What the Australians did, though, was
> > to elevate it to a tactic, beginning with - yes - Chappelli.
>
> Nope. WG Grace.
Ah yes, his 'constant commentary' with EM. I'd like to know what that
constituted. Was it "This chap won't last long" "No, he should have
saved his tram fare". Or was it "So who's fucking your wife while
you're out here ?" One's sledging, the other isn't.
> I realise that you have little knowledge or use for facts but here's a
> couple of minor corrections anyway.
>
> 1) The ACB no longer exists. It is now Cricket Australia. Has been for a
> while now.
Gosh.
> 2) The Code that CA has drawn up is pointless window dressing.
So your team will carry on being twats, then ? That's a shame.
> 3) I don't recall reading a single article on MLH's achievement which
> has been unqualified, SL-genre praise. In fact one piece in, surprise
> surprise, the Sydney Morning Herald was downright derogatory and
> insulting. Still, you'd know best as you have the big advantage of being
> able to read the tabloids as you wipe your arse with them.
Big Mal in The Australian comes pretty close to arsewipe, true. I'm
glad to see that you agree with me on the standard of Australian
sports "reporting".
> >
> > You won't find me trying to defend the actions of any routinely
> > abusive Englishman just because he's the same nationality as me -
> > spot the difference?
>
> Nope. 'Fraid I just can't tell you apart from any of the other rabid,
> foaming, irrational, fact-challenged, braying nitwits who ignore or
> excuse their own team's behaviour
All the foaming seems to be coming from your end, old bean.
> and bleat on and on and on about a
> part of Aust's game which is universally practiced and which no-one who
> actually plays seems to mind.
I don't really give a flying whether the players mind or not. I mind,
just as I
mind the braindead antics of the thuggish morons who play football in
this country.
>
> That's if it's sledging your talking about now and not some "heat of the
> moment" or "out of character" actions.
>
> in brisbane, wondering why so many of these intellectually-challenged
> posters who complain about Aust sledging actually sledge in their own
> posts?
Maybe you should answer your own question, as you're the one doling
out the abuse.
kenhiggs8
> Mike Gooding wrote:
> > By, I do enjoy a good stir.
>
> First impressions are always important. So getting the very first
> character of a post wrong is not good.
>
> > FST, ffs, would pass remarks to the batsman and his own fielders in
> > the heat of the moment, not as a matter of course.
>
> Not what I've read. But then you'd know.
>
> > Snow shoulder-charged SMG in the heat of the moment ? I?m pretty sure he
> > never routinely abused batsmen.
>
> You'd know.
>
> > Sir Geoffrey threw his bat down; no
> > doubt you think this was a part of his well-known tactic of mentally
> > disintegrating the opposing bowlers. I?ve never heard, or read,
> > anything from Bradman that suggests that sledging was common in his
> > day ? just the opposite, in fact; the worst I heard from him was the
> > statement on his ABC tapes that the two Bodyline teams never exchanged
> > a word on the field. As for captains, Kim Hughes presided over one of
> > the most unpleasant tours ever in 1981,
>
> This is the very first time I've *ever* heard this claim. Still, you'd know.
>
Well,
it's not only had a fair bit of air-time on rsc, it's pretty common
knowledge around the traps.
So to run around making up false claims about what Bradman said to
support your assertions seems rather dodgy to me.
You didn't know Bradman reckoned there was no sledging when he was
skipper?
Perhaps Queensland has a slower news service than even SL.
They certainly have more inept journos.
> > according to reports (no, I
> > can?t find them, but anyway this was the 1980s and obviously the Aus
> > team were angels then).
>
> Unlike you, I don't know. What I do know though is that Aust weren't
> winning much in that decade and, by an amazing co-incidence, Oz sledging
> didn't rate a mention then. There's two possible reasons there. I'm
> betting we'll pick different ones.
>
> > I don?t recall AB ever trying to get
> > Goodolemerve or Fatboy to shut their mouths;
>
> You'd know. (And of course having thousands of pommies singing "you fat
> bastard... at MGH isn't sledging is it?)
>
Not by the England team it isn't.
> > I do remember Mark Taylor trying to get things more under control,
>
> You'd know.
>
> > and we?ve all seen Stevie?s
> > influence on his team?s behaviour,
>
> You'd know.
>
> > to the degree that even the
> > Australian team themselves seem to be getting the point, if the report
> > in The Age is true. Gatting behaved very badly, and out of character,
> > in Pakistan ? was it also a regular tactic of his to go nose to nose
> > with opposition batsmen, or to allow his bowlers and fielders to
> > indulge in abuse ? I?m talking about sledging here, in any case -
> > abusing an umpire, although unforgivable, doesn?t constitute sledging;
> > neither does walking out of a press conference or fixing the ball.
>
> Gooding, you say you're "talking about sledging here" yet you originally
> listed specific examples of Australian bad behaviour which you connected
> to this allegedly unique Oz sledging ethos. I countered with similar
> examples of English behaviour but these, according to you, are mostly
> done in the "heat of the moment", or are "out of character". Is that the
> foul stench of fetid double-standards I detect? Or is the smell coming
> from those unwashed Union Jack underpants on your head?
>
Yet you and Moby have rather moveable definitions of sledging,
redefining it to suit whatever crapulous idea comes into your head at
various times.
And you refuse to accept that anyone else can have a definition that
disagrees with one of yours.
> Further, one can only wonder why in your feeble attempts to excuse all
> the Poms Behaving Badly incidents I've quoted you've not really
> mentioned the two worst episodes of the lot. The game-long racial
> sledging by Surrey against the Windies in 1957(?) which, which according
> to my calendar, was before IM Chappell even debuted in the Sheffield
> Shield, and Atherton's ball tampering effort. A ploy which, unlike
> sledging, is indisputably illegal and for a non-bowling captain to be
> practicing it, is damning evidence of a pre-meditated, illegal team
> tactic. Is cheating not as bad as sledging then?
So you'd be a believable source, would you?
You're the one who made up a raft of lies about what Larry said.
You're the one who claimed to have read that Bradman said sledging was
just as common in his time.
You're the one who, not two weeks ago, said you'd just rewatched the
74/75 Ashes series and:
"Blimey! There were visible send-offs, harsh words galore, visible
(and
prolonged) dissent at umpiring decision and even a blatant bump ball
appeal for a catch! Mind you, any suspensions handed out wouldn't have
had any effect on the series whatsoever as *all* these "offenses" were
by the poms and they got belted anyway."
So you're a credible witness who reckons the 74/75 Ashes series showed
sledging, dissent and cheating *all* (your emphasis, not mine) of
which was carried out by England and none by Australia?
Methinks you're a lying Boofhead.
I reckon quite a few others here would agree
[snip odious garbage]
Boofhead Watch
alvey
> alvey <alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmj1ko$mo0av$1...@ID-155113.news.uni-berlin.de>...
snippo
>
>
> Maybe you should answer your own question, as you're the one doling
> out the abuse.
Just checking here.
In your culture would calling people "McGob" or "Fatboy Slim" be
regarded as;
a) sledging
b) abusive
c) terms of endearment
d) other
And still in your culture; Is making baseless assertions such as "Did
the Australian team lead us into an era in which McGrath's, Slater's,
Warne's behaviour is tolerated by their captains ? Of course they did."
a) Quality dinner table conversation
b) A letter to the Times from "Outraged of Staffordshire" (retd.)
c) Something you say when you're pissed
d) other
And here's the nub.
>>>I've never said that the Australians have the monopoly on sledging.
>>>We all know everyone does it. What the Australians did, though, was
>>>to elevate it to a tactic, beginning with - yes - Chappelli.
>>
>>Nope. WG Grace.
>
> Ah yes, his 'constant commentary' with EM. I'd like to know what that
> constituted. Was it "This chap won't last long" "No, he should have
> saved his tram fare". Or was it "So who's fucking your wife while
> you're out here ?" One's sledging, the other isn't.
Disagree. I'd say that they're both indisputably sledging. Sledging
being defined as verbals to put you off your game.
Anyway, there's the nub. You'd "like to know" what Grace's constant
commentary constituted but unfortunately the absolute & incontravertible
fact is that *you don't know*. This is what causes the odd Alvey
Krakatoa impersonation. No-one knows what's said on the field. For all
we know Indians may be calling the Australians all sorts of horrid
things. Why I believe that AB was once told that he was "a fucking
Victorian." by a close in Pakistani fielder. And I still chuckle over
the hilarious example of this "not knowing" stupidity when de Slanda was
working himself into a lather about Sangkakara's horrid sledging and
then when the stump-mikes in RSA transmitted Sangers actual "sledging"
it was revealed to be less "offensive" than your original post. [Still
makes me larf.]
And then there's the issue of what defines sledging. And again, the
debate would be really helped towards a conclusion here if a significant
number of examples could be gathered, rather than the ocassional "heat
of the moment" or "out of character" instances wouldn't you say?
alvey
kenhiggs8
> Mike Gooding wrote:
>
> > alvey <alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmj1ko$mo0av$1...@ID-155113.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> snippo
> >
> >
> > Maybe you should answer your own question, as you're the one doling
> > out the abuse.
>
> Just checking here.
> In your culture would calling people "McGob" or "Fatboy Slim" be
> regarded as;
>
> a) sledging
> b) abusive
> c) terms of endearment
> d) other
>
Dunno, Boofhead, but no doubt you consider yourself qualified to pass
sentence on anyone who uses such terms.
Here's one of yours from yesterday:
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: alvey (alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Cleaning up cricket's bad-boy image
View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.sport.cricket
Date: 2003-10-19 04:09:09 PST
[snip]
An interesting thing re this incident. I always recall it when raving
Fataunga Fans (is there another variety?) always spiel on about what a
"strong man" he was. Well, I ask, if he was so fucking "strong" why
then
did he have to take a call from SL?
Another thing in passing. What you *should* have asked de Slanda was;
if
Fatatunga *wasn't* threatening to take his side off the field, why
then
did he shake the hand of the English batsman at the crease and then
waddle off towards the gate?
snip waste of time.
alvey
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tell me, Boofhead, the nick 'Fatatunga', is this a c) in your country?
Boofhead Watch,
not in Brisbane, but having a good laugh and just off to find the
quote when alvey claims no-one could ever accuse him of being a
hypocrite......
Mike Gooding
> Mike Gooding wrote:
>
> > alvey <alvey_john_ho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmj1ko$mo0av$1...@ID-155113.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> snippo
> >
> >
> > Maybe you should answer your own question, as you're the one doling
> > out the abuse.
>
> Just checking here.
> In your culture would calling people "McGob" or "Fatboy Slim" be
> regarded as;
>
> a) sledging
> b) abusive
> c) terms of endearment
> d) other
>
(a) if applied on the field, which I doubt they ever have been.
(b) definitely.
(c) possibly, if used by their mates.
These are the internal names I have for them; it's only now that I've
shyly brought them out for the enlightenment of the masses. Actually,
I usually think of McGrath as "McGobshite", but I thought that might
be a going a little too far for the sensitive people on the ng.
> And still in your culture; Is making baseless assertions such as "Did
> the Australian team lead us into an era in which McGrath's, Slater's,
> Warne's behaviour is tolerated by their captains ? Of course they did."
It's an assertion based on observation. I stand by it, as I don't
recall AB or SW ever pulling their players up on their behaviour
(maybe that will change under the new CofC and the admission by SW
and, earlier, by their coach, that they do go over the top).
>
> And here's the nub.
>
> >>>I've never said that the Australians have the monopoly on sledging.
> >>>We all know everyone does it. What the Australians did, though, was
> >>>to elevate it to a tactic, beginning with - yes - Chappelli.
> >>
> >>Nope. WG Grace.
> >
> > Ah yes, his 'constant commentary' with EM. I'd like to know what that
> > constituted. Was it "This chap won't last long" "No, he should have
> > saved his tram fare". Or was it "So who's fucking your wife while
> > you're out here ?" One's sledging, the other isn't.
>
> Disagree. I'd say that they're both indisputably sledging. Sledging
> being defined as verbals to put you off your game.
Well than, that's a matter of definition. Sledging, in my typically
arrogant opinion, is abuse aimed directly at the batsman, not
fielder-to-fielder remarks along the lines of how funny the crash
helmet looked on Key's head.
> And again, the debate would be really helped towards a conclusion here if a significant
> number of examples could be gathered, rather than the ocassional "heat
> of the moment" or "out of character" instances wouldn't you say?
>
McGrath's, Warne's, Big Merve's contributions are not at all out of
character.