Update on the Sammy Jones run-out
rodney...@gmail.com
infamous run-out of Sammy Jones in the 1882 "Ashes" Test and received
a great deal of feedback and information from numerous posters. I have
come by loads of information on the event since then, and here I share
with you I know (although some of it seems to be apocryphal):
With Australia's second innings having reached 113 for six, Billy
Murdoch received a delivery from Dick Barlow which spat up at him off
the wicket. Murdoch managed only to chip it away in the air and with
little control into a vacant area close to the bat in front of square
on the legside. Non-striker Jones, backing up a long way to make the
most of any opportunity to add to Australia's 75-run lead, called
Murdoch through for the run but slipped as he darted forward, scuffing
up the pitch in the process. Still, he was able to get back up again
and continue his run over to the other end.
Wicketkeeper Alfred Lyttelton, meanwhile, was tearing away after the
descending ball. He was not fast enough, though, to get to it before
it fell to ground in the short-midwicket region. Continuing his
pursuit regardless, Lyttelton threw off his right glove to make the
upcoming throw easier to execute, and Ted Peate came up from short-
slip to guard the stumps at the striker's-end, which Jones was fast
approaching.
Using his gloveless arm, the wicketkeeper hurled the ball at the
wicket, but Jones grounded his bat comfortably before the throw
arrived. It missed its target anyway and squirted away towards Peate,
who did not bother to gather it, for Grace, the point fielder, was
backing up behind him. When the ball passed Peate, some onlookers fell
under the mistaken impression that he had misfielded it, but his
letting it go was definitely quite deliberate.
Grace gathered the ball calmly and strolled with it towards Barlow at
the bowler's end. He presently motioned to throw it back to Barlow -
but then noticed that the non-striker was looking to leave his crease.
Grace sensed an opportunity now, and he did not release the ball;
instead, he held onto it for two or three seconds longer - time enough
to have a casual word or two with a companion out there on the field
of play. He then nodded at Jones, who was now convinced of his safety
and walked away from the wicket to begin tapping away at an uneven
spot on the pitch. It was now that Grace made his move: hiding the
ball cunningly under his beard, he walked over to the unoccupied
wicket at the striker's end, pulled the ball out and whipped off a
bail.
"How's that?!" he yelled to square-leg umpire Bob Thoms, who asked him
if the appeal had truly been made in all earnestness.
"Yes," replied Grace, and Thoms delivered his verdict: "As you claim
it, sir! If you appeal for it, I'm sorry to say the gentleman is out.
It's not cricket," he added, "but I must give the batsman out."
Jones, then, was on his way, furious at what had just transpired.
Murdoch expressed his angry views on Grace's deeds right there and
then, and quite overtly, too, as he stood at the non-striker's end
next to umpire Luke Greenwood. "That's very sharp practice, W.G.," he
said, but his protestations got him nowhere.
Umpire Greenwood agreed fully with the Australian captain. If he had
been the one standing at square-leg to receive Grace's appeal, he
would most definitely have rejected it; in his opinion, the ball had
been dead, the batsmen making no attempt at another run.
Neither was Greenwood the only one who felt that umpire Thoms had made
a questionable decision. Some people assumed that Thoms (like so many
before him) had meekly given in to the arresting sight of an adamant
Doctor, of whose actions many people were genuinely ashamed.
According to Law 30 of the 1829 Code of the Laws of Cricket, however,
"When the ball has been in the bowler's or wicket-keeper's hands, it
is considered as no longer in play, and the strikers need not keep
within their ground till the umpire has called 'Play'; but if the
player go out of his ground with an intent to run before the ball be
delivered, the bowler may put him out." The decision, therefore, was
the correct one.
Some of those who were aware of this believed it to have been foolish
of Jones to have left his crease in the first place, but this bit of
"sport", taking advantage of Jones's young naiveté, angered the
Australians immensely and intensified their desire to win the match
and thus gain their revenge. They let their commonly low opinion on
the matter be heard as they sat up in the pavilion and remarked upon
it. Jack Blackham, for one, felt that cricket ought always to be
played in the proper sporting spirit that befitted it; a player should
never take advantage of batsman or an umpire. Alec Bannerman was also
a stickler for proper cricketing etiquette. Fred Spofforth, in
England's first innings, had resisted a similar opportunity to run out
the captain, Monkey Hornby. Tom Horan believed that attempting to win
a match by such unsportsmanlike means reflected poorly on Grace;
indeed, it would reflect poorly on any man.
The Wisden chronicler overheard the Australians' complaints.
Personally, he believed that it had been quite natural (although
obviously incorrect) for Jones to have left his crease in the first
place.
Grace, the villain of this inglorious piece, was verbally abused by
quite a number of spectators in the moments that followed the
incident, but he showed no remorse at all; indeed, he was quite proud
of his consummate cleverness and would have called himself a fool had
he himself fallen for the same trick. His actions, however, had caused
an anger and conflagration in the Australians the like of which not
yet been seen on this tour.
Talk of "dirty cricket" and much debate about "sharp practice" floated
around the ground now. Amid some laughter in the pavilion, one man
said that Jones ought to thank Grace for having taught him this
valuable lesson. The Wisden scribe saw an element of truth in that.
Rodney Ulyate
The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
My Wikipedia talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robertson-Glasgow
Salil
> he himself fallen for the same trick. His actions, however, had caused
> an anger and conflagration in the Australians the like of which not
> yet been seen on this tour.
Indeed. But with the response drawn from Spofforth - first verbally
during the innings break, and then with the ball during the England
run chase - I wonder if he thought it was worth it in the end.
rodney...@gmail.com
Alas, I cannot find his views on the incident anywhere.
Salil
> Alas, I cannot find his views on the incident anywhere.
Would you have Simon Rae's biography of the Doctor?
The book I'd pulled the excerpts on Jones' run out from happened to
cite it as one of the sources - I'd be interested to see whether Rae
went into any further details on the incident and repercussions there,
beyond what he says in It's Not Cricket.
rodney...@gmail.com
I really wish that I did. I saw it while I was in England last year,
and I truly regret now my having bought Richie Benaud's "My Spin on
Cricket" instead.
Salil
> I really wish that I did. I saw it while I was in England last year,
> and I truly regret now my having bought Richie Benaud's "My Spin on
> Cricket" instead.
Should have picked up both; not an either/or situation!
I picked up Benaud's book incredibly cheap when last in India, think I
paid the equivalent of less than 5 pounds for it. I'd have happily
paid more, it's a wonderful read.
Digressing now to Benaud's writing, I also had the good fortune of
coming across two of his much earlier tomes from his playing days some
months ago when down under. "Way of Cricket", written in 1959/60 and
published just before the Tied Test, and "A Tale of Two Tests" (on the
Tied Test and the Old Trafford victory in 1961). Both are superbly
written, and Way of Cricket (where he goes over a lot of subjects from
captaincy, individual skills, rules and the nature of the game) really
shows just how far ahead of his time his mind was. I'm hoping to get
around to posting some excerpts from both in the near future on here &
the VTCB.
rodney...@gmail.com
I agree with you when you write that Benaud's older work was
fantastic, but I struggled with "My Spin on Cricket". I found that he
had this annoying tendency to waffle on about apparently nothing at
times. Still, some of it made for delightful reading. I await with
baited breath the excerpts that you promise from his older work.
Cicero
<rodney...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174721581.5...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 23, 5:19 pm, "Salil" <salilbene...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 11:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > I really wish that I did. I saw it while I was in England last year,
>> > and I truly regret now my having bought Richie Benaud's "My Spin on
>> > Cricket" instead.
>>
>> Should have picked up both; not an either/or situation!
>>
>> I picked up Benaud's book incredibly cheap when last in India, think I
>> paid the equivalent of less than 5 pounds for it. I'd have happily
>> paid more, it's a wonderful read.
>>
>> Digressing now to Benaud's writing, I also had the good fortune of
>> coming across two of his much earlier tomes from his playing days some
>> months ago when down under. "Way of Cricket", written in 1959/60 and
>> published just before the Tied Test, and "A Tale of Two Tests" (on the
>> Tied Test and the Old Trafford victory in 1961). Both are superbly
>> written, and Way of Cricket (where he goes over a lot of subjects from
>> captaincy, individual skills, rules and the nature of the game) really
>> shows just how far ahead of his time his mind was. I'm hoping to get
>> around to posting some excerpts from both in the near future on here &
>> the VTCB.
>
> I agree with you when you write that Benaud's older work was
> fantastic, but I struggled with "My Spin on Cricket". I found that he
> had this annoying tendency to waffle on about apparently nothing at
> times. Still, some of it made for delightful reading. I await with
> baited breath the excerpts that you promise from his older work.
Sorry to be a pedant, but I think the term is "bated breath".
David Lewis
> > On Mar 23, 11:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I really wish that I did. I saw it while I was in England last year,
> > > and I truly regret now my having bought Richie Benaud's "My Spin on
> > > Cricket" instead.
> >
> > Should have picked up both; not an either/or situation!
> >
> > I picked up Benaud's book incredibly cheap when last in India, think I
> > paid the equivalent of less than 5 pounds for it. I'd have happily
> > paid more, it's a wonderful read.
> >
> > Digressing now to Benaud's writing, I also had the good fortune of
> > coming across two of his much earlier tomes from his playing days some
> > months ago when down under. "Way of Cricket", written in 1959/60 and
> > published just before the Tied Test, and "A Tale of Two Tests" (on the
> > Tied Test and the Old Trafford victory in 1961). Both are superbly
> > written, and Way of Cricket (where he goes over a lot of subjects from
> > captaincy, individual skills, rules and the nature of the game) really
> > shows just how far ahead of his time his mind was. I'm hoping to get
> > around to posting some excerpts from both in the near future on here &
> > the VTCB.
>
> I agree with you when you write that Benaud's older work was
> fantastic, but I struggled with "My Spin on Cricket". I found that he
> had this annoying tendency to waffle on about apparently nothing at
> times. Still, some of it made for delightful reading.
Me too. The occasional inaccuracies didn't help dispel my impression that
this was rather a lazy effort.
David
rodney...@gmail.com
> Sorry to be a pedant, but I think the term is "bated breath".
Apologies.
Ron Knight
wrote:
>
><rodney...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1174721581.5...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> I await with
>> baited breath the excerpts that you promise from his older work.
>
>
>Sorry to be a pedant, but I think the term is "bated breath".
>
Unless it refers to the cat who ate a pound of cheese and waited by
the mouse hole.
Take it easy,
Ron Knight
rodney...@gmail.com
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 09:12:55 GMT, "Cicero" <moofi...@bigpond.net.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> ><rodney.uly...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1174721581.5...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >> I await with
> >> baited breath the excerpts that you promise from his older work.
>
> >Sorry to be a pedant, but I think the term is "bated breath".
>
> Unless it refers to the cat who ate a pound of cheese and waited by
> the mouse hole.
Yes! That's what I meant!
rodney...@gmail.com
Charles Studd had entered the game as England's most successful
batsman that season against the Australians, scoring two centuries in
the tour matches. In the first innings of this Oval Test Match,
however, Spofforth had him bowled for a duck by a fast break-back that
(according to an interview with Allan Steel) "seemed to go through his
bat", before just clipping the off-bail. In the second dig, famously,
he did not face a ball as number eleven Ted Peate threw caution to the
wind and paid the price.
Here, from his book "Cricket", is W.G. Grace's account of one of the
most famous quotes in cricket history, and it was probably first cited
there:
"Mr. C. T. Studd, rather strangely, was down on the list as tenth man,
and Peate was eleventh. Ten runs were wanted to win, and it was not
considered an impossible task if Peate could only keep up his wicket
or allow Mr. Studd to have the bowling. However, Peate hit out at the
first or second ball and made two runs off it; then tried it again off
the next ball, and was clean bowled."
(According to contemporary newspapers, Peate scored two off the first
ball, hammered the next one, without much control, straight to a
fielder, and was then bowled off the third. Cricinfo's scorecard would
seem to confirm this; it tells us that he faced three deliveries.)
"On being remonstrated with for his rashness and want of judgment, he
said: 'Very sorry, gentlemen, but I could not trust Mr. Studd.' Not a
bad remark, considering that Mr. Studd had made a hundred runs against
the same bowling a month or so before!" - p. 354.
A sniffs a bit of dry disapproval in Grace's writing there. It may
well be assumed that he himself was one of the "gentlemen" who gave
Peate the rollicking that provoked that reply.
Although W.G.'s seems to be the most likely, there are numerous other
accounts of Peate's exact words:
"I had to hit, as I couldn't trust Mr Studd to stay in." - Harmsworth
Magazine
"I could not trust Studd!" - Norman P. Grubb (Studd's biographer)
"Hey, but Ah just couldn't trust Maister Studd, beggin' yer pardon." -
Neville Cardus
"Well, I couldn't trust Maister Studd!" - Cardus again
"Ah knew ah could play old Spoff, but ah couldn't trust Mr. Stood." -
Ralph Barker
Mad Hamish
IMO it's been pretty clear for a couple of years now that Benaud isn't
as sharp mentally as he used to be.
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Cicero
>>
> IMO it's been pretty clear for a couple of years now that Benaud isn't
> as sharp mentally as he used to be.
That would apply to a lot of posters around here.
rodney...@gmail.com
<newsunspammel...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:08:43 GMT, "David Lewis"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ><rodney.uly...@gmail.com> wrote in message
As hard as it is to say this, I agree with you, Hamish. Some of
Benaud's remarks during the last Ashes series were rather
embarrassing, and so were the awkward silences in the commentary box
that often followed his sporadic blurbs of neigh-senility. Thankfully,
though, it is certainly not this for which we shall remember him.
rodney...@gmail.com
Magazine", Allan Steel defended Studd:
"Now, as to one point, Mr. Steel wishes something to be said. It has
become a tradition that Mr. C. T. Studd was so nervous that Peate had
to hit out and so was dismissed. Peate made some remark to that
effect, and Mr. Hornby not only put Mr. Studd in tenth, when his
average was 29, but was also of that opinion. This is what Mr. Steel
desires should be contradicted. He avers that he played more cricket
with Mr. C. T. Studd than any one else, knew him as intimately, was
his guest for the match, was with him when he put on his pads to go
in, and that the old Etonian was in no sense 'paralysed with fright.'
As a matter of fact he never received a ball. Moreover, had the charge
been true, he would have been considered too nerveless ever to play
again in a great match, whereas he appeared in both fixtures of the
Gentlemen against the Australians in 1884 and in numbers of other
important engagements until he gave up cricket to become a missionary.
Such strong and un-suggested defence ought for ever to relieve the
name of this great amateur from the only trace of failure in a fine
career."
Dave Fawthrop
|!In an interview in one of the 1902 editions of "The Badminton
|!Magazine", Allan Steel defended Studd:
|!
|!"Now, as to one point, Mr. Steel wishes something to be said. It has
|!become a tradition that Mr. C. T. Studd was so nervous that Peate had
|!to hit out and so was dismissed. Peate made some remark to that
|!effect, and Mr. Hornby not only put Mr. Studd in tenth, when his
|!average was 29, but was also of that opinion. This is what Mr. Steel
|!desires should be contradicted. He avers that he played more cricket
|!with Mr. C. T. Studd than any one else, knew him as intimately, was
|!his guest for the match, was with him when he put on his pads to go
|!in, and that the old Etonian was in no sense 'paralysed with fright.'
|!As a matter of fact he never received a ball. Moreover, had the charge
|!been true, he would have been considered too nerveless ever to play
|!again in a great match, whereas he appeared in both fixtures of the
|!Gentlemen against the Australians in 1884 and in numbers of other
|!important engagements until he gave up cricket to become a missionary.
|!Such strong and un-suggested defence ought for ever to relieve the
|!name of this great amateur from the only trace of failure in a fine
|!career."
|!
|!Rodney Ulyate
|!The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
|!My Wikipedia talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robertson-Glasgow
Only *Yorkshire* is On Topic on uk.local.yorkshire
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
Your right to swing you arms about ends at the tip of my nose.
There is no right to kill or injure other people, plan to do so,
conspire with others to do so, or support others planning murder.
Mike Holmans
For Hutton's sake, Rodney, will you *stop* trolling uk.local.yorkshire
with your explorations of ancient cricket history? It's full of loons
and idiots, none of whom are remotely interested in ancient cricket.
Cheers,
Mike
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
Sorry, but I don't quite get what you're saying.
Rodney Ulyate
The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
Mike Holmans
Your original post was crossposted to r.s.c., a.s.c., uk.s.c. and
uk.local.yorkshire. Stories referring to CT Studd of Middlesex and AG
Steel of Lancashire are off-topic for u.l.y, which is devoted to beer
and bigotry, not random bits of cricket history.
Cheers,
Mike
Mad Hamish
wrote:
>>
>> IMO it's been pretty clear for a couple of years now that Benaud isn't
>> as sharp mentally as he used to be.
>
>That would apply to a lot of posters around here.
>
There were ever sharp posters around here?
rodney...@gmail.com
> On 31 Mar 2007 05:15:13 -0700, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> Only *Yorkshire* is On Topic on uk.local.yorkshire
>
> >Sorry, but I don't quite get what you're saying.
>
> Your original post was crossposted to r.s.c., a.s.c., uk.s.c. and
> uk.local.yorkshire. Stories referring to CT Studd of Middlesex and AG
> Steel of Lancashire are off-topic for u.l.y, which is devoted to beer
> and bigotry, not random bits of cricket history.
Right. Thank you. I suppose that I have always had this romantic
perception of Yorkshire as being a really cricket-mad county. Those
days, evidently, are behind us.
Rodney Ulyate
The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
Mike Holmans
>On Mar 31, 2:24 pm, Mike Holmans <m...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 31 Mar 2007 05:15:13 -0700, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >> Only *Yorkshire* is On Topic on uk.local.yorkshire
>>
>> >Sorry, but I don't quite get what you're saying.
>>
>> Your original post was crossposted to r.s.c., a.s.c., uk.s.c. and
>> uk.local.yorkshire. Stories referring to CT Studd of Middlesex and AG
>> Steel of Lancashire are off-topic for u.l.y, which is devoted to beer
>> and bigotry, not random bits of cricket history.
>
>Right. Thank you. I suppose that I have always had this romantic
>perception of Yorkshire as being a really cricket-mad county. Those
>days, evidently, are behind us.
They aren't, and why you would conclude that just because it's been
pointed out to you that you are being infernally rude and
inconsiderate I don't really know.
What you did is like going into a Yorkshire pub you've never been in
before and demanding that the local clientele break off from whatever
it was they were doing and talk about some piece of ancient cricket
history because you would like them to.
A polite person would go into a strange pub, buy a drink and hang
around quietly for a bit before demanding that they all listen to him.
On Usenet, we call that lurking in a froup for a period before posting
to it, and it's elementary good manners.
Cheers,
Mike
rodney...@gmail.com
That is twice now that I have been told (and both times by means of
that walking-into-a-bar analogy!) that I have done something that goes
against proper Usenet etiquette. Alas, do not know anything about what
might be considered discourteous around here, and, because I do not
want to be guilty of any rudeness again, I want to ask if you would
mind pointing me in the direction of some sort of online rule-sheet
(if there is one) or giving me some kind of idea yourself. That should
help to prevent future difficulties.
Cheers,
Mike Holmans
keyboard and brought forth:
Only too glad to point out some helpful hints for someone who's
obviously keen to be a good citizen rather than a pesky nuisance a la
Benjamin Sampath.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
It's a bit long, and actually the walking-into-a-bar analogy is as
good as any.
Every froup on Usenet is now a pretty well-established community. Each
has its own conventions, its own set of regulars, its own loons, its
own pet hates, its own peculiar uses of language, just like every
decent bar in every town or village in the world. When you pipe up,
you are attempting to join in a conversation which a bunch of
long-standing mates are having and have been having for some time. If
you've ever been in a bar with your friends, you will have experienced
both the bloke who gets into a little conversation with someone on the
edge and gradually joins in and the drunken berk who lurches up and
insists on doing his comedy routine without even noticing that you lot
are there to mourn your colleague who died yesterday. Which one left
the better impression on you?
Just because two froups seem to have similar subject-matter by virtue
of their titles, don't assume that your post will be equally welcome
in both. So don't crosspost to a froup which you don't read regularly:
what's acceptable behaviour in the Red Lion may be a definite no-no in
the Dog & Duck, even though they are both pubs.
Cheers,
Mike
--
rodney...@gmail.com
> On 1 Apr 2007 12:17:09 -0700, rodney.uly...@gmail.com tapped the
Thanks a ton, Mike. I definitely appreciate your very well-written
help. I'll give that document a close read.
rodney...@gmail.com
Audience" is probably the subtopic to which I ought to pay most
attention! I think that I have been guilty of not following these
pieces of advice: "Try to get the most appropriate audience for your
message, not the widest" and "Avoid posting messages to more than one
newsgroup unless you are sure it is appropriate." It was the
definitely desire to get as much feedback as possible that led me to
crosspost to the Yorkshire group - very inconsiderate of me, I know,
and I apologise once again.
rodney...@gmail.com
Times on 28 July and gives Studd's own defence:
***
The Rev. Robert Hindle writes:-
With reference to Mr. C. T. Studd's part in the Test Match of 1882,
the story that was set on foot after that memorable match was lost is
that Mr. Studd begged Mr. A. N. Hornby not to send him in. It was said
that Mr. Studd sat with three sweaters on and shook with nervousness.
As a result, Mr. Hornby kept him back, with the result that all the
wickets were down before Mr. Studd received a ball, and the match was
lost by seven runs. The following is Mr. Studd's story, given in the
course of a letter I received from him in 1926 :-
"I see from a newspaper that now they declare that I asked Hornby not
to let me go in. Of course that is without the shadow of a foundation
in fact. The only truth of the whole matter as stated is that the
weather was cold and that we sat in the committee room with the
windows closed because of the cold. Except that such strange things
happen in cricket none dreamed we should be beaten. There were less
than 80 runs required to win when we began our innings. When we had
made over 50 for two wickets everything was over bar the shouting, as
they say. Runs had come freely enough. Then came a time when the best
English batsmen played over after over and never made a run. If I
remember right something like 18 or 20 overs were bowled without a
run, maiden after maiden. Then these got out. Hornby, on his own
account, began to alter the order of going in. I believe he did ask me
if I minded, and I said 'No.' Then things began to change, and the
procession began. Hornby told me he was holding me in reserve. So I
went in eighth man and saw two wickets fall, but I never received a
ball. Now here are facts. Nobody dreamed, half an hour before the
finish, that we could be beaten. Fifty odd out of 70 odd had been
made, and eight men still to go in. What reason could there be for my
nerves being bad as stated by Hornby? Again, if Hornby believed me to
be nervous, he should have put me in first. That is what is usually
done."
The foregoing was written to me as a familiar friend, and in self-
defence after I had suggested that he was strung up as was the case in
1882. It was very unlike "C. T." to take the trouble to defend himself
or to sound his own praises in any way.
***
It is interesting to note mention of Hornby having made a direct
accusation. How I would love to get hold of that!
alvey
snip
>
> Every froup on Usenet is now a pretty well-established community. Each
> has its own conventions, its own set of regulars, its own loons, its
> own pet hates, its own peculiar uses of language, just like every
> decent bar in every town or village in the world. When you pipe up,
> you are attempting to join in a conversation which a bunch of
> long-standing mates are having and have been having for some time. If
> you've ever been in a bar with your friends, you will have experienced
> both the bloke who gets into a little conversation with someone on the
> edge and gradually joins in and the drunken berk who lurches up and
> insists on doing his comedy routine without even noticing that you lot
> are there to mourn your colleague who died yesterday. Which one left
> the better impression on you?
>
> Just because two froups seem to have similar subject-matter by virtue
> of their titles, don't assume that your post will be equally welcome
> in both. So don't crosspost to a froup which you don't read regularly:
> what's acceptable behaviour in the Red Lion may be a definite no-no in
> the Dog & Duck, even though they are both pubs.
>
What's a "froup"? Local dialect is it?
alvey
rodney...@gmail.com
A few months after this match, Studd found God. Surely there is some
link between that and his infamous nervousness (if we believe Hornby
and Peate, and not Studd and Steel) in the 1882 Test Match. What
happened to this man?
rodney...@gmail.com
According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world,
and especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under
Ivo Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to
pray that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly.
His brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to
be dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting
there, watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts
came welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the
world worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What
is it worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes
to face Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities,
all is vanity.'"
rodney...@gmail.com
I should probably have added to that the following, in Studd's own
words: "All those things ... had become as nothing to my brother. He
only cared about the Bible and the Lord Jesus Christ, and God taught
me the same lesson. In His love and goodness He restored my brother to
health [....] the Lord met me again and restored to me the joy of His
salvation. Still further, and what was better than all, He set me to
work for Him, and I began to try and persuade my friends to read the
Gospel, and to speak to them individually about their souls."
As his biographer confirms, Studd spoke to a few cricketers: "He got
several of the England XI to go and hear Moody, including A. G. Steel,
and the Captain of the Test Team, Ivo Bligh. Bligh wrote to him
afterwards, 'An address from that man goes right home, and makes one
think more than any man I have yet heard. He is so thoroughly
practical. I hope to see you next week at the Oval. Mind you make a
long score, there's a good old boy.'"
Quite amusing that. Bligh must be one of my favourite ancient
cricketers.
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
>kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
>especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
>Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
>that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
>brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
>dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
>watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
>welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
>worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
>worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
>Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.'"
Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/ blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1175599078.923624.186...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
> >According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
> >kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
> >especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
> >Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
> >that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
> >brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
> >dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
> >watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
> >welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
> >worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
> >worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
> >Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.'"
>
> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
And all of this because his brother recovered from a potentially
lethal illness? I have a feeling that C.T. Studd might have been well
on his way down that path even before then. What do you think?
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>On Apr 4, 12:06 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> In message <1175599078.923624.186...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>>
>> >According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
>> >kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
>> >especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
>> >Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
>> >that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
>> >brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
>> >dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
>> >watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
>> >welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
>> >worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
>> >worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
>> >Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is
>> >vanity.'"
>>
>> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
>> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
>
>And all of this because his brother recovered from a potentially
>lethal illness? I have a feeling that C.T. Studd might have been well
>on his way down that path even before then. What do you think?
>
You are probably right. Evangelical Christianity was very strong at the
time. RH
>Rodney Ulyate
>The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
>My Wikipedia talk page:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robertson-Glasgow
>
--
rodney...@gmail.com
I found in Grubb's book to my amusement that a paragraph or so of that
letter is quoted on page 29 - but everything about his supposed
nervousness (and thus his defence thereof) is conveniently ommitted in
true hagiographic style. Studd really is portrayed as a saint.
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1175599078.923624.186...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
> >kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
> >especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
> >Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
> >that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
> >brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
> >dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
> >watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
> >welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
> >worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
> >worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
> >Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.'"
>
> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
I don't believe that Grubb's book says anything about that (which is
strange). Where did you find it, Robert?
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>On Apr 4, 12:06 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> In message <1175599078.923624.186...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>>
>> >According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
>> >kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
>> >especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
>> >Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
>> >that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
>> >brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
>> >dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
>> >watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
>> >welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
>> >worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
>> >worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
>> >Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.'"
>>
>> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
>> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
>
>I don't believe that Grubb's book says anything about that (which is
>strange). Where did you find it, Robert?
R4 programme on Studd a few years back - that dealt with his whole life,
most of which was concerned with missionary work in China and then
Africa. rH
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1175934318.992530.318...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 4, 12:06 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
> >wrote:
> >> In message <1175599078.923624.186...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> >> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
> >> >According to his biography, written by Norman P.Grubb, which Cicero
> >> >kindly gave me, "But as he rose to prominence in the cricket world, and
> >> >especially while touring with the Test Team in Australia [under Ivo
> >> >Bligh in 1882/83], there were two old ladies who set themselves to pray
> >> >that he would be brought back to God. The answer came suddenly. His
> >> >brother G. B., to whom lie was especially attached, was thought to be
> >> >dying. C. T. was constantly at his bedside, and whilst sitting there,
> >> >watching as he hovered between life and death, these thoughts came
> >> >welling up in his mind, 'Now what is all the popularity of the world
> >> >worth to George? What is all the fame and flattery worth? What is it
> >> >worth to possess all the riches in the world, when a man comes to face
> >> >Eternity?' And a voice seemed to answer, 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.'"
>
> >> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
> >> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
>
> >I don't believe that Grubb's book says anything about that (which is
> >strange). Where did you find it, Robert?
>
> R4 programme on Studd a few years back - that dealt with his whole life,
> most of which was concerned with missionary work in China and then
> Africa.
Thanks a ton.
Studd's cricketing career seems to have come to an end two years after
the 1882 Test Match. Charles Pardon wrote in "Bell's Life", "At the
commencement of the year [1884] we all should have laughed at the idea
of a representative England Eleven without C.T. Studd, but the famous
Cantab had done so badly against the Australians [ignoring, evidently,
his six for 96 for the Players], and played their bowling in so timid
a fashion" - what kind of strangle did the Aussies hold over this man?
It's almost Cullinanesque! - "that his absence could not be regarded
as a very serious loss."
Studd and the Cambridge Seven sailed for China in February the
following year.
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>Studd's cricketing career seems to have come to an end two years after
>the 1882 Test Match. Charles Pardon wrote in "Bell's Life", "At the
>commencement of the year [1884] we all should have laughed at the idea
>of a representative England Eleven without C.T. Studd, but the famous
>Cantab had done so badly against the Australians [ignoring, evidently,
>his six for 96 for the Players], and played their bowling in so timid a
>fashion" - what kind of strangle did the Aussies hold over this man?
>It's almost Cullinanesque! - "that his absence could not be regarded as
Studd also failed on his tour of Oz. RH
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1176017223.319438.4...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
> >Studd's cricketing career seems to have come to an end two years after
> >the 1882 Test Match. Charles Pardon wrote in "Bell's Life", "At the
> >commencement of the year [1884] we all should have laughed at the idea
> >of a representative England Eleven without C.T. Studd, but the famous
> >Cantab had done so badly against the Australians [ignoring, evidently,
> >his six for 96 for the Players], and played their bowling in so timid a
> >fashion" - what kind of strangle did the Aussies hold over this man?
> >It's almost Cullinanesque! - "that his absence could not be regarded as
> >serious loss."
>
> Studd also failed on his tour of Oz.
His brother, on the other hand, definitely seems to have impressed -
as Wisden observes in its report of the Fourth Test (which did not
count as part of the 1882/83 fight for the Ashes): "the fielding on
both sides was often brilliant, and nothing in that department of the
game was finer than the display of G. B. Studd. A Colonial newspaper
speaks of him as, 'that remarkable fieldsmen;' one critic remarks,
'the fielding of G. B. Studd was a splendid exhibition.' While another
observes, 'G. B. Studd's pace and accuracy were marvellous.'"
Studd was the first Northamptonshire-born player to represent England.
The Studds were one of those true cricketing families, with G.B.
(1882), C.T. (1883) and J.E. K. (1884) captaining Cambridge one after
another in consecutive years. Punch coined the phrase "the set of
Studds", but "there was a banker who went one better than Punch. He
had three gold studs for his evening-dress shirt engraved with the
initials of the three brothers. Whichever made top score any day when
all three were playing, went top in the shirt that night."
Their older half-brother, E.J.C., made the Cheltenham XI in 1866. In
all, six Studds (including H.W., R.A. and A.H.) played for Eton, while
R.A., the youngest of the brotherhood, got into the Cambridge side in
1895. P.M. Studd, evidently a bit of a rebel, played for Harrow and
Oxford. There is also reference to an E.B.T., who played for
Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
the others.
J.E.Kynaston, who never lost a high-profile match in his time at Eton,
later played a considerable role in the silent manoeuvres (as David
Frith memorably called them) that took place in the background of the
bodyline controversy. He was knighted in 1923, became the Lord Mayor
of London in 1928 and, his Wisden obituary tells us, "was created
Baronet at the end of his official year."
It is also interesting to note that Bunny Lucas, C.T. Studd, Allan
Steel and the Hon. Alfred Lyttelton all played in the Varsity match of
1882, ten days before that epoch-making Test Match, in which cold or
nerves so afflicted C.T.. Incidentally, unseasonal freezing weather
was not an uncommon phenomenon when C.T. was playing: "Always ready to
talk cricket, W. N. Roe told how when playing for Cambridge at Old
Trafford it was so cold that the fieldsmen could not hold catches.
Nash, the Lancashire professional, was missed off every ball of an
over from R. C. Ramsay [who, with C.T., played a prominent role in
Cambridge's famous victory over the 1882 Australians]. C. T. Studd
bowled the next ball, and a catch came to me at mid-off, the crowd
began to boo, and I felt certain I should not make the catch, but by
great good fortune the ball stuck!"
Hopefully, that was of some interest; I quite enjoyed the last hour
spent putting it together.
David North
news:1176111165....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Studd was the first Northamptonshire-born player to represent England.
> The Studds were one of those true cricketing families, with G.B.
> (1882), C.T. (1883) and J.E. K. (1884) captaining Cambridge one after
> another in consecutive years. Punch coined the phrase "the set of
> Studds", but "there was a banker who went one better than Punch. He
> had three gold studs for his evening-dress shirt engraved with the
> initials of the three brothers. Whichever made top score any day when
> all three were playing, went top in the shirt that night."
>
> Their older half-brother, E.J.C., made the Cheltenham XI in 1866. In
> all, six Studds (including H.W., R.A. and A.H.) played for Eton, while
> R.A., the youngest of the brotherhood, got into the Cambridge side in
> 1895. P.M. Studd, evidently a bit of a rebel, played for Harrow and
> Oxford.
Harrow and Cambridge. Not sure he was related though - born in Dublin.
> There is also reference to an E.B.T., who played for
> Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
> the others.
Son of EJC. EBT also went to Harrow.
--
David North
David North
news:1176017223....@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Studd's cricketing career seems to have come to an end two years after
the 1882 Test Match. Charles Pardon wrote in "Bell's Life", "At the
commencement of the year [1884] we all should have laughed at the idea
of a representative England Eleven without C.T. Studd, but the famous
Cantab had done so badly against the Australians [ignoring, evidently,
his six for 96 for the Players],
For MCC. Somehow I don't think you will find him in any Players XI. He also
took 4-61 for Gentlemen, but the quote surely refers to his batting - he
made 2, 0, 1, 10 and 23 against the Aussies that season.
--
David North
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>
>Studd was the first Northamptonshire-born player to represent England.
>The Studds were one of those true cricketing families, with G.B.
>(1882), C.T. (1883) and J.E. K. (1884) captaining Cambridge one after
>another in consecutive years. Punch coined the phrase "the set of
>Studds", but "there was a banker who went one better than Punch. He had
>three gold studs for his evening-dress shirt engraved with the initials
>of the three brothers. Whichever made top score any day when all three
>were playing, went top in the shirt that night."
>
>Their older half-brother, E.J.C., made the Cheltenham XI in 1866. In
>all, six Studds (including H.W., R.A. and A.H.) played for Eton, while
>R.A., the youngest of the brotherhood, got into the Cambridge side in
>1895. P.M. Studd, evidently a bit of a rebel, played for Harrow and
>Oxford. There is also reference to an E.B.T., who played for
>Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
>the others.
Topped by the Foster family, the seven brothers all playing for Malvern
School and, from memory, for Worcestershire, which was known as
Fostershire during their time. The headmaster of Malvern was said to
have breathed a sigh of relief after the last Foster boy left the
school, not because they were bad pupils but because seven brothers were
a little much to handle at any school. RH
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> For MCC. Somehow I don't think you will find him in any Players XI. He also
> took 4-61 for Gentlemen, but the quote surely refers to his batting - he
> made 2, 0, 1, 10 and 23 against the Aussies that season.
Sorry. That was a real howler on my part.
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1176111165.850495.50...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
> >Studd was the first Northamptonshire-born player to represent England.
> >The Studds were one of those true cricketing families, with G.B.
> >(1882), C.T. (1883) and J.E. K. (1884) captaining Cambridge one after
> >another in consecutive years. Punch coined the phrase "the set of
> >Studds", but "there was a banker who went one better than Punch. He had
> >three gold studs for his evening-dress shirt engraved with the initials
> >of the three brothers. Whichever made top score any day when all three
> >were playing, went top in the shirt that night."
>
> >Their older half-brother, E.J.C., made the Cheltenham XI in 1866. In
> >all, six Studds (including H.W., R.A. and A.H.) played for Eton, while
> >R.A., the youngest of the brotherhood, got into the Cambridge side in
> >1895. P.M. Studd, evidently a bit of a rebel, played for Harrow and
> >Oxford. There is also reference to an E.B.T., who played for
> >Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
> >the others.
>
> Topped by the Foster family, the seven brothers all playing for Malvern
> School and, from memory, for Worcestershire, which was known as
> Fostershire during their time. The headmaster of Malvern was said to
> have breathed a sigh of relief after the last Foster boy left the
> school, not because they were bad pupils but because seven brothers were
> a little much to handle at any school.
Weren't the Lytteltons also right up there?
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>> >Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
>> >the others.
>>
>> Topped by the Foster family, the seven brothers all playing for Malvern
>> School and, from memory, for Worcestershire, which was known as
>> Fostershire during their time. The headmaster of Malvern was said to
>> have breathed a sigh of relief after the last Foster boy left the
>> school, not because they were bad pupils but because seven brothers were
>> a little much to handle at any school.
>
>Weren't the Lytteltons also right up there?
Not with the Fosters, although they probably come second in terms of
numbers. Other notable cricketing families were the Walkers, Hearnes,
Graces (4 FC cricketing brothers including Henry), Parks, Langridges,
Manns. RH
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1176296401.445278.309...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
I've got a book called something along the lines of "Great Cricketing
Families" lying about the house somewhere. I now feel inspired to give
it a go.
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <1176296401.445278.309...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>
> >> >Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
> >> >the others.
>
> >> Topped by the Foster family, the seven brothers all playing for Malvern
> >> School and, from memory, for Worcestershire, which was known as
> >> Fostershire during their time. The headmaster of Malvern was said to
> >> have breathed a sigh of relief after the last Foster boy left the
> >> school, not because they were bad pupils but because seven brothers were
> >> a little much to handle at any school.
>
> >Weren't the Lytteltons also right up there?
>
> Not with the Fosters, although they probably come second in terms of
> numbers. Other notable cricketing families were the Walkers, Hearnes,
> Graces (4 FC cricketing brothers including Henry), Parks, Langridges,
> Manns. RH
(Please excuse me if I am repeating myself here, but my posts do not
seem to be showing up at the moment.) Inspired by this thread, I shall
now be delving into a book on great cricketing families, written by a
Meher-Homji, I think.
Mike Holmans
keyboard and brought forth:
>On Apr 11, 6:10 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> In message <1176296401.445278.309...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
>>
>> >> >Gloucestershire, but I am not certain that he was of any relation to
>> >> >the others.
>>
>> >> Topped by the Foster family, the seven brothers all playing for Malvern
>> >> School and, from memory, for Worcestershire, which was known as
>> >> Fostershire during their time. The headmaster of Malvern was said to
>> >> have breathed a sigh of relief after the last Foster boy left the
>> >> school, not because they were bad pupils but because seven brothers were
>> >> a little much to handle at any school.
>>
>> >Weren't the Lytteltons also right up there?
>>
>> Not with the Fosters, although they probably come second in terms of
>> numbers. Other notable cricketing families were the Walkers, Hearnes,
>> Graces (4 FC cricketing brothers including Henry), Parks, Langridges,
>> Manns. RH
>I've got a book called something along the lines of "Great Cricketing
>Families" lying about the house somewhere. I now feel inspired to give
>it a go.
I am currently reading a history of Northants, and they had the
Kingston brothers. There were nine of them, but the seventh went off
to be a professor of languages, so only FW, JP, HJ, GH, CA, WP, WH and
HE Kingston actually played for the county. The reason this band of
brothers is not better known is probably that their period was the
1880s and 1890s, the years before Northants were admitted to the ranks
of first-class counties.
The book also contains the following extraordinary sentence referring
to Northants amateurs in the 1880s: "Thomas Gascoigne Beale, a
prominent League cricketer, shoe manufacturer and freemason, is said
to have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard
of this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
Cheers,
Mike
--
John Hall
Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In message <1176296401.4...@w1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>rodney...@gmail.com writes
>>
>
>Not with the Fosters, although they probably come second in terms of
>numbers. Other notable cricketing families were the Walkers, Hearnes,
>Graces (4 FC cricketing brothers including Henry), Parks, Langridges,
>Manns. RH
The Gunns deserve a mention, as possibly so do - in more modern times -
the Butchers.
--
John Hall
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
rodney...@gmail.com
> On 12 Apr 2007 10:41:05 -0700, rodney.uly...@gmail.com tapped the
That is very interesting indeed. I have never heard of Beal before,
but I shall definitely look into this. It has always seemed strange to
me that it took so long for the bosie to come about. The first time
that I tried proper legspin, for example, I could only bowl
wrong-'uns.
rodney...@gmail.com
That was meant to read "Beale", of course. I had been reading recently
about Charles Beal, the manager of the Australian sides of that same
era.
Robert Henderson
In message <2ivs131st71g058th...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>
>The book also contains the following extraordinary sentence referring
>to Northants amateurs in the 1880s: "Thomas Gascoigne Beale, a
>prominent League cricketer, shoe manufacturer and freemason, is said to
>have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard of
>this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
>before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
Very improbable. Bowlers will have bowled googlies by mistake every now
and then before Bosanquet, but that is all. RH
--
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <2ivs131st71g058tht5othk5t7fql49...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
> <m...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> >The book also contains the following extraordinary sentence referring
> >to Northants amateurs in the 1880s: "Thomas Gascoigne Beale, a
> >prominent League cricketer, shoe manufacturer and freemason, is said to
> >have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard of
> >this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
> >before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
>
> Very improbable. Bowlers will have bowled googlies by mistake every now
> and then before Bosanquet, but that is all.
Yes, I thought so, too. I remember Robert Low writing in his Grace
biography that W.G. might have done it once or twice. It would be
interesting to find more on this Beale character, though.
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>> >have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard of
>> >this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
>> >before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
>>
>> Very improbable. Bowlers will have bowled googlies by mistake every now
>> and then before Bosanquet, but that is all.
>
>Yes, I thought so, too. I remember Robert Low writing in his Grace
>biography that W.G. might have done it once or twice. It would be
>interesting to find more on this Beale character, though.
Anyone who has bowled wrist spin will know that even when trying to bowl
leg breaks the ball comes out now and then as a googly or top spinner.
It just depends on the angle at which the ball comes out the hand. RH
Mad Hamish
<phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>In message <2ivs131st71g058th...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes
>>
>>
>>The book also contains the following extraordinary sentence referring
>>to Northants amateurs in the 1880s: "Thomas Gascoigne Beale, a
>>prominent League cricketer, shoe manufacturer and freemason, is said to
>>have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard of
>>this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
>>before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
>
>Very improbable. Bowlers will have bowled googlies by mistake every now
>and then before Bosanquet, but that is all.
There's a story of O'Reilly bowling to Barnes in a domestic match and
twice in a row O'Reilly tried to bowl the googly, Barnes picked it and
they were both amazed when the ball span away from him.
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au
Robert Henderson
<newsunsp...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> writes
>On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:41:58 +0100, Robert Henderson
><phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>In message <2ivs131st71g058th...@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
>><mi...@jackalope.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>
>>>The book also contains the following extraordinary sentence referring
>>>to Northants amateurs in the 1880s: "Thomas Gascoigne Beale, a
>>>prominent League cricketer, shoe manufacturer and freemason, is said to
>>>have been the first English googly bowler." Has anyone ever heard of
>>>this Beale, and how did he come to be bowling googlies twenty years
>>>before Bosanquet invented the delivery?
>>
>>Very improbable. Bowlers will have bowled googlies by mistake every now
>>and then before Bosanquet, but that is all.
>
>There's a story of O'Reilly bowling to Barnes in a domestic match and
>twice in a row O'Reilly tried to bowl the googly, Barnes picked it and
>they were both amazed when the ball span away from him.
Anyone who has tried to bowl wrist spin will know that this happens all
the time, ie, you don't bowl the ball you intend. It is one of the
things which makes wrist spin bowling difficult because if you do not
know which way the ball will spin it is impossible to get a a consistent
line. RH
rodney...@gmail.com
<newsunspammel...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
> There's a story of O'Reilly bowling to Barnes in a domestic match and
> twice in a row O'Reilly tried to bowl the googly, Barnes picked it and
> they were both amazed when the ball span away from him.
Gideon Haigh writes something very interesting about that and related
topics in "Mystery Spinner". I'll post an excerpt if you want.
rodney...@gmail.com
about Studd having given away a tremendous fortune prior to starting
his missionary work:
"On January 13, 1877, Studd who had recently received $145,000 from an
inheritance, put it all in the bank of heaven, and continued on with
his work in China as a poor missionary. Before it was all over, he had
also brought Christ to India, challenged students across America to
Christian service, and pioneered a great work in Africa which was to
become the World-wide Evangelization Crusade."
http://www.earnestlycontending.com/KT/bios/ctstudd.html
John Hall
rodney...@gmail.com writes:
>Returning to C.T. Studd, I managed to find confirmation of your claim
>about Studd having given away a tremendous fortune prior to starting
>his missionary work:
>
>"On January 13, 1877, Studd who had recently received $145,000 from an
>inheritance,
Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I wonder
what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used. Whatever it was,
it was clearly an enormous amount of money back then. But isn't the year
wrong? I thought that his inheritance and missionary work came _after_
his Test career.
> put it all in the bank of heaven, and continued on with
>his work in China as a poor missionary. Before it was all over, he had
>also brought Christ to India, challenged students across America to
>Christian service, and pioneered a great work in Africa which was to
>become the World-wide Evangelization Cru貞ade."
>
>http://www.earnestlycontending.com/KT/bios/ctstudd.html
Thanks for that.
rodney...@gmail.com
> In article <1176905482.815903.107...@b58g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes:
> >Returning to C.T. Studd, I managed to find confirmation of your claim
> >about Studd having given away a tremendous fortune prior to starting
> >his missionary work:
>
> >"On January 13, 1877, Studd who had recently received $145,000 from an
> >inheritance,
>
> Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I wonder
> what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used. Whatever it was,
> it was clearly an enormous amount of money back then. But isn't the year
> wrong? I thought that his inheritance and missionary work came _after_
> his Test career.
You're right. He does move everything back a bit. If you want to know
a touch more, I've got plenty.
rodney...@gmail.com
the run-out. I believe that referred to the accounts and opinions of
Bob Thoms and Luke Greenwood (the two umpires), Billy Murdoch, Fred
Spofforth, Allan Steel and Tom Horan, all of whom helped to add colour
and fullness, but I was annoyed that I couldn't find anything about
what the main characters, W.G. Grace and Sammy Jones, thought about it
all.
Well, now I have - although it's not much.
Lord Hawke recalls in his "Recollections and Reminiscences" (Williams
& Norgate, London, 1924) a quote by Grace on the incident: "I taught
the lad something" (which fits in nicely with that famous statement by
a member of the crowd shortly after the event).
Sammy Jones's feelings are captured briefly by Bunny Lucas in his
contribution to "The Memorial Biography of Dr. W.G. Grace": "Murdoch
played a ball to leg for which Alfred Lyttelton ran and W. G. from
point went up to the wicket. S. P. Jones completed the first run and,
thinking the ball was dead, went out of his ground to pat the wicket.
Grace whipped the bail off and Thorns gave Jones out. He was furious
and so were several of his side, but one of the Australians later on
admitted he would have done the same thing if he had been where Grace
was."
It reads alarmingly similarly to "Wisden's" account, however: "Murdoch
played a ball to leg for which Alfred Lyttelton ran and W.G. from
point went up to the wicket. S.P. Jones completed the first run and,
thinking the ball was dead, went out of his ground to pat the wicket.
Grace whipped the bail off and Thorns gave Jones out. He was furious
and so were several of his side, but one of the Australians later on
admitted he would have done the same thing if he had been where Grace
was."
We may, therefore, assume that Lucas was merely paraphrasing the
cricketing bible and that he mistakenly thought that it made reference
to an angry Sammy Jones, but I would rather not. It does, however,
contradict this, from Jones's "Wisden" obituary: "That the affair left
Jones without ill-will was illustrated a few years before his death.
Of W. G. Grace, whom he described as a great sportsman and cricketer,
he said: 'I never saw him leave alone any ball outside the off stump.
He either cut or drove them.'"
Robert Henderson
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> writes
>
>Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I
>wonder what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used.
Around five dollars to the pound in those days. Rh
> Whatever it was, it was clearly an enormous amount of money back then.
>But isn't the year wrong? I thought that his inheritance and missionary
>work came _after_ his Test career.
--
rodney...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In message <4$R$tLBtKlJGF...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, John Hall
> <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> >Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I
> >wonder what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used.
>
> Around five dollars to the pound in those days.
If you knew that off-hand, I am very impressed.
Robert Henderson
rodney...@gmail.com writes
>On Apr 18, 9:09 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> In message <4$R$tLBtKlJGF...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, John Hall
>> <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> writes
>>
>>
>>
>> >Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I
>> >wonder what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used.
>>
>> Around five dollars to the pound in those days.
>
>If you knew that off-hand, I am very impressed.
Economic history is one of my specialities. RH
>
>Rodney Ulyate
>The cricket blog to which I grudgingly contribute: http://crickex.blogspot.com/
>My Wikipedia talk page:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Robertson-Glasgow
>
--
John Hall
Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In message <4$R$tLBtKl...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, John Hall
><nospam...@jhall.co.uk> writes
>>
>>Presumably he actually received some number of pounds sterling. I
>>wonder what exchange rate the writer of that piece has used.
>
>Around five dollars to the pound in those days. Rh
But the writer might have (incorrectly) applied whatever rate was
current at the time he was writing the article, which could be very
different. That's why I phrased my post the way that I did.
rodney...@gmail.com
On Apr 4, 12:06 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> Studd gave away all his wealth - he had around £30,000 inherited
> capital, say £1.5 million today - before going to be a missionary.
pedita...@gmail.com
Crikey! That's a howler! I mistakenly posted Lucas's story twice.
Here's what "Wisden" really said: "At 114 Jones was run out in a way
which gave great dissatisfaction to Murdoch and other Australians.
Murdoch played a ball to leg, for which Lyttelton ran. The ball was
returned, and Jones having completed the first run, and thinking
wrongly, but very naturally, that the ball was dead, went out of his
ground. Grace put his wicket down, and the umpire gave him out.
Several of the team spoke angrily of Grace's action, but the compiler
was informed that after the excitement had cooled down a prominent
member of Australian eleven admitted that he should have done the same
thing had he been in Grace's place."
No mention there of Jones's fury.