The correct spelling? Muralitharan or Muralidaran
Terry Walsh
have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll remain
unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes a
website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
on this site spells his name the same as I do.
I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
spelling.
AND Please no "chucker" replies.
Thanks in advance
--
Terry Walsh
www.cricket-online.org
www.wandererscricket.com
All emails & attachments sent & received have been scanned for virus
infections and have been classified as secure.
Shishir Pathak
news:b4791j$1d2m$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan. I
> have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll
remain
> unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes
a
> website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
> on this site spells his name the same as I do.
>
> I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> spelling.
Muralidharan should be the actual spelling and Muralitharan is a close
(Tamil English) approximation. Similarly, his first name should more
correctly be spelled Mutthiah, and not Muttiah.
Cheers,
Shishir
Note to Indian posters: All flames by the 'Gautam vs. Gautham' mafia will be
sent to /dev/null, so don't bother.
Bob Dubery
<terry...@austarnet.com.au> wrote:
>OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan. I
>have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll remain
>unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes a
>website (www.muralispin.com).
During the much discussed CWC match between SA and SL Murali's shirt
had Muralidaran on the back.
Matt van de Werken
> OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan.
> I have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll
> remain unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and
> even quotes a website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article
> (that I looked at) on this site spells his name the same as I do.
>
> I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> spelling.
>
>
I think the problem comes about because his name is basically from another
alphabet-set, which makes the translation into our alphabet dependent on
phonetics. What one person hears as a "hard" th, another will spell as
"dh"; and because the name has only been written in our alphabet recently,
it hasn't settled into a "one true spelling". So, the answer IMO is,
either is correct, because we all know who you're talking about.
If you spell it "chucker", though, we'll all get confused because we won't
know who you're talking about, whether it's some guy from Pakistan, a
fellow from Sydney, some other bloke from England, or even someone else
from Sri Lanka. (sorry, had to put it in to get into Larry's filter).
Cheers,
MvdW
--
Matt van de Werken - cricket, linux, electronics enthusiast
Linux 2.4.19 - Dual Athlon MP1800+ -- Thu, 06 Mar 2003 9:10PM
Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life.
-- Dave Butler
Moby
"Terry Walsh" <terry...@austarnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:b4791j$1d2m$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan. I
> have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll
remain
> unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes
a
> website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
> on this site spells his name the same as I do.
In the big pro-Murali spin from nein at the start of the VB odos in
Australia, they showed a picture of a handwriting sample showing Murali's
name in this (the one we're using here) character set. It was appropriate
because Murali himself had written it.
I remember thinking to myself "I will have to make sure I remember this for
asc/rsc. But you know what...
Anyway.. that's where you would find the definative answer. How you'd go
about getting a copy is beyond me though.
Moby
Larry de Silva
"Terry Walsh" <terry...@austarnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:b4791j$1d2m$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll
remain
> unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes
a
> website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
> on this site spells his name the same as I do.
>
> I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> spelling.
>
> AND Please no "chucker" replies.
>
> Thanks in advance
Muttiah Muralitharan
Laz
Anand Vibhav
$1...@ID-134415.news.dfncis.de:
> Similarly, his first name should more
> correctly be spelled Mutthiah, and not Muttiah.
>
To be accurate, it should be Muthayya. Replacing ayya with iah was a
fashion statement in the 60s.
I wonder how did Murali get the telugu first name. Did his ancestors
migrate from Andhra?
Larry de Silva
"Anand Vibhav" <anandvibh...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns933659D979133an...@199.45.49.11...
Probably. He is a Central SL Tamil. (called Tea estate Tamils)
Laz
Takle
> "Shishir Pathak" <shishir_p...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:b47ad2$1sh3ub $1...@ID-134415.news.dfncis.de:
>
>> Similarly, his first name should more
>> correctly be spelled Mutthiah, and not Muttiah.
The two "t"s are identical and neither is aspirated.
Both are dental sounds (not retroflex).
There's no reason only one should have an "h".
>>
>
> To be accurate, it should be Muthayya. Replacing ayya with iah was a
> fashion statement in the 60s.
Are you saying folks born in the '20s or '30s with "ayya" names changed
them in the '60s (Justice Venkatachaliah, for instance) ?
>
> I wonder how did Murali get the telugu first name. Did his ancestors
> migrate from Andhra?
Why ? There certainly are Tamil folks called Muttiah.
Anand Vibhav
66.75.162.198:
> Why ? There certainly are Tamil folks called Muttiah.
ayya/iah is not a traditional tamil feature, it is telugu tradition. Before
the independence, lots of telugu people lived in the northern districts of
Tamil Nadu. Chennai is a recent tamil adaptation of ancient telugu name
Chennapatnam. Even in central areas of Tamil Nadu, lots of telugu people
live, especially the naidu community is very popular. They speak Tamil more
fluently than Telugu, they names area tamilized.
samarth harish shah
> OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan. I
> have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll remain
> unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes a
> website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
> on this site spells his name the same as I do.
>
> I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> spelling.
>
> AND Please no "chucker" replies.
>
> Thanks in advance
He's a tamil and in tamil, there's only one alphabet to represent all the
following sounds: trilled 't', 'th', trilled 'd', and 'dh'. The sounds are
all more-or-less interchangeable, and so it really doesn't matter how you
spell it in English.
-Samarth.
K. Thayalan
I don't want to get into a linguistic argument here but on what basis do
you determine that ayya/iah is not a Tamil feature. Names ending with
ayya/iah are common to both Telegu and Tamil. Many Sri Lankans Tamils
have such names ending in aiya ( Muttiah , Chelliah, Rasiah etc.).
--
Thayalan
(630) 587-8719
(630) 728-4920 (Mobile)
thay...@worldnet.att.net
AIM ID: kthayalan
rkusenet
"Terry Walsh" <terry...@austarnet.com.au> wrote in message news:b4791j$1d2m$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll remain
> unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even quotes a
> website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked at)
> on this site spells his name the same as I do.
>
> I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> spelling.
>
> AND Please no "chucker" replies.
in tamil there is no 'd'. So Dilli becomes tilli. Similarly there is
not Pra in tamil, as in pratap. The closest u can get is Piratap.
Similarly there is no 'k' in tamil. It is 'ha'.
Srilankan tamils write their name in English just the way it
is written in tamil. So Dorai become Thurai. Prabhakaran becomes
Pirpaharan.
Indian tamils don't bother about it and out of convenience
prefer to write their name as Pratap, instead of Piratap.
rk-
ps: there was a crude joke about Hundai being written in
authentic tamil way.
Anand Vibhav
$Oz1.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> I don't want to get into a linguistic argument here but on what basis do
> you determine that ayya/iah is not a Tamil feature.
If not linguistic what else is there to argue about? :-)
Kamesh
"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:b483pu$1tgg8l$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de...
>
> Similarly there is no 'k' in tamil. It is 'ha'.
So ravi hrishna...would i be called hamesh or kamesh?
I am not sure about 'ha' either because, I know for a fact, that Mahesh is
Magesh and Mohan is Mogan in tamil.
Similarly, Padma becomes Bhadma, imo
-k
["English is a very funny language -- bhairo.n becomes barron and barron
becomes bhairo.n because their minds are very narrow(n)"..from RMIM]
samarth harish shah
>
> "rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:b483pu$1tgg8l$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > Similarly there is no 'k' in tamil. It is 'ha'.
>
> So ravi hrishna...would i be called hamesh or kamesh?
>
> I am not sure about 'ha' either because, I know for a fact, that Mahesh is
> Magesh and Mohan is Mogan in tamil.
In fact, it's exactly *opposite* to what RK said.
There *is* an alphabet for 'Ka' in Tamil, but this traditionally was used
to represent all of 'ka', 'kha', 'ga', 'gha' and 'ha' syllables.
Originally, there was no letter for 'ha', which is why 'ka' was used for
'ha' i.e. 'ka' and 'ha' were interchangeable.
These days, in "modern" tamil, there IS a letter for 'ha', so the use of
the 'ka' alphabet has been deprecated to only the 'ka', 'kha', 'ga' and
'gha' syllables. But some people still continue to use 'ka'
interchangeably with 'ha' also, as it was in old tamil.
> Similarly, Padma becomes Bhadma, imo
"Padma" written in tamil could be pronounced as Padma, Patma, Pathma,
Padhma, Badma, Batma, Bathma, Badhma, Bhadma, Bhatma, Bhathma or Bhadhma.
The letter for 'ta' (the trilled one - I'm not sure "trill" is the right
term for it, for eg. 't' as in Ajit or Tendulkar), 'tha', 'da' (as in Dev
or Prasad) and 'dha' is the same.
Similarly, the letter for p, b and bh is the same. In old tamil, the 'fa'
also used to be the same letter, but in new tamil, there is a special
letter for 'fa', so the use of the 'pa' has been deprecated to 'pa', 'ba'
and 'bha'.
-Samarth [ a gujju by the name 'Kanti Gandhi' would have the same first
and last name in tamil ].
Kamesh
"samarth harish shah" <shs...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.31.030306...@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu...
<snipped a sincere attempt at explaining the nuances of Tamil
alphabets...sorry it didnt help>
So, is there a "New Tamil Grammar" that's taught in schools now or what you
explained is the popular way of speaking these days.
-kamesh
samarth harish shah
>
> "samarth harish shah" <shs...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.GSO.4.31.030306...@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu...
>
> <snipped a sincere attempt at explaining the nuances of Tamil
> alphabets...sorry it didnt help>
>
> So, is there a "New Tamil Grammar" that's taught in schools now or what you
> explained is the popular way of speaking these days.
When I learnt it many years ago, we were taught a basic alphabet (which
was the traditional one) and then a supplementary set of letters, which
were the newer ones.
In some ways, this is also how I learnt Hindi. First we learnt a basic
alphabet and the next year were were taught new and "confusing" letters
like "shra", "gna" and "ksha".
-Samarth.
Take it easy
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Kamesh wrote:
>
> >
> > "rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:b483pu$1tgg8l$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de...
> > >
> > > Similarly there is no 'k' in tamil. It is 'ha'.
> >
> > So ravi hrishna...would i be called hamesh or kamesh?
> >
> > I am not sure about 'ha' either because, I know for a fact, that Mahesh is
> > Magesh and Mohan is Mogan in tamil.
>
> In fact, it's exactly *opposite* to what RK said.
>
> There *is* an alphabet for 'Ka' in Tamil, but this traditionally was used
> to represent all of 'ka', 'kha', 'ga', 'gha' and 'ha' syllables.
> Originally, there was no letter for 'ha', which is why 'ka' was used for
> 'ha' i.e. 'ka' and 'ha' were interchangeable.
>
> These days, in "modern" tamil, there IS a letter for 'ha', so the use of
> the 'ka' alphabet has been deprecated to only the 'ka', 'kha', 'ga' and
> 'gha' syllables. But some people still continue to use 'ka'
> interchangeably with 'ha' also, as it was in old tamil.
>
> > Similarly, Padma becomes Bhadma, imo
>
> "Padma" written in tamil could be pronounced as Padma, Patma, Pathma,
> Padhma, Badma, Batma, Bathma, Badhma, Bhadma, Bhatma, Bhathma or Bhadhma.
>
> The letter for 'ta' (the trilled one - I'm not sure "trill" is the right
> term for it, for eg. 't' as in Ajit or Tendulkar), 'tha', 'da' (as in Dev
> or Prasad) and 'dha' is the same.
You were almost right in this mail and the previous ones. But
regarding t and th, Thamizh (that is the closest way to write Tamil
in the way it is pronounced, where zh stands for that unique letter
in tamil) has different letters. For guys who know Tamil, paththu
(number 10) and pattu (silk) are the differentiating words.
The way Tamil language rules are defined, the letter k (or t, th,
p) is pronounced depends upon where in the word it appears. Just
for eg, k (the tamil k) if it is the first letter, is pronounced as
k. Or if it appears in succession like kk, then it is pronounced k
again. But if it comes in the middle, it is typically pronounced g
(eg magan, ie son). Another scenario is if it follows n it is
pronounced g (eg. thangam, ie gold). Based on the above rules (and
may be more), you cannot write in tamil words like Good, banKing,
baGGage, etc.
(Aside: Some might find Tamil words starting with G/B/DH, but
typically they are words came in from Sanskrit or other languages
and got merged; ch/s is totally another beast which is often argued
about)
There are lot more rules (like a word cannot end in k, p, t, th,
ch, words cannot start with t) which makes writing other language
words or names very difficult/funny/horrible.
Takeiteasy.
Tom Thompson
One problem here. Murali himself says this is his spelling. Considering his
birthday, he is not a fashion statement from the 60s.
"Larry de Silva" <larryd...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:X%I9a.403$8P2....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
The Wog
>
> "Terry Walsh" <terry...@austarnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:b4791j$1d2m$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au...
> > OK, I seem to have a problem with the spelling of Muttiah Muralitharan.
I
> > have just received an email from a respected cricket identity (who'll
> remain
> > unamed) saying that it should be spelt Muthiah Muralidaran and even
quotes
> a
> > website (www.muralispin.com). However the first article (that I looked
at)
> > on this site spells his name the same as I do.
> >
> > I'm in a quandry fellas so I'm soliciting your advice on the correct
> > spelling.
> >
> > AND Please no "chucker" replies.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
>
>
> Muttiah Muralitharan
>
today.