List of idiot fast bowlers from India
Haider Zaidi
>On 18 Apr 1996, Venkatesh Kambhammettu wrote:
>
>> Ravi Krishna (rkri...@informix.com) wrote:
>>
>> : 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
>> : first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
>> : eating people can't be fast bowlers.
>>
>>
>> what crap are you talking? srinath is also idli/sambar eating guy and
>> he is the fastest bowler. faster than all non-idli/sambar eating
>> bowlers like prabhakar, kapil, bupinder singh (heh heh heh), vaidya....
>> and the list goes on. please don't come up with stupid baseless conclusions.
>> btw, i don't care whether the bowler is idli/sambar eater or not as long
>> as he is bowling well. please get this into your head that idli/sambar
>> has got nothing to do with the speed of bowling.
>>
>> take it easy...
>> -ramesh
>>
>>
>
> Yeah this stuff about idli/sambar eaters not being strong
> enough or fast enought is utter baloney. It's a stereotype
> started up by the illiterate wrestlers and their illiterate
> trainers in the subcontinent. Speed and strength is determined
> by how hard you train your body with the principles of
> progressive overload, and the amount of fast twitch fibre
> in your muscle tissue.
>
>Shariq
Exactly.... AND THE KEY IS TO EAT MEAT !!
Haider Zaidi - Churgha eater from Lahore
Ravi Krishna
: Mr. Ravi Krishna,
: I think you must be working with software development. If that is your
: business, then shut up and do it. Don't comment on others as if you
: know everything about cricket.
: Arun
I think you must be a student ( from your email id). Please shut up and mind
your own business ( studies). This news group is not your private property.
If you don't like what I write then don't read. Even if you read then don't
make an ass of yourself by responding like the above. IS THAT CLEAR.
Ravi Krishna
: In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960418...@eesun1.tamu.edu>,
: Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi <jo...@ee.tamu.edu> writes:
: |>
: |> What are your expert comments on Srinath and Prabhakar?
: |>
: One of Them sambar /idli eater
Srinath is FAST but he is still far from being a good bowler ( in test
matches). That guy has played for nearly five years , has not developed a
outswinger and is yet to take a five wicket haul in test cricket. It speaks
highly of indian bowling is Srinath is considered as our best bowler. In one
day matches his recent performance is pathetic , conceeds around 60 runs
every time.
Prabhakar was slow but could swing the ball very well. Let Srinath first
prove himself by taking wickets. Merely being fast is of new use.
If you cared to read my thread I was speaking on the overall ability of a
bowler , not speed alone.
I did not include Srinath in the list of idiots because he has still time to
prove himself. In the next couple of years we will know whether he is also
another idiot or a good bowler.
Kumar Venkataraman
: Venkatesh Jagadeeshwara wrote:
: : In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960418...@eesun1.tamu.edu>,
: : Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi <jo...@ee.tamu.edu> writes:
: : |>
: : |> What are your expert comments on Srinath and Prabhakar?
: : |>
: : One of Them sambar /idli eater
: Srinath is FAST but he is still far from being a good bowler ( in test
: matches). That guy has played for nearly five years , has not developed a
: outswinger and is yet to take a five wicket haul in test cricket. It speaks
: highly of indian bowling is Srinath is considered as our best bowler. In one
: day matches his recent performance is pathetic , conceeds around 60 runs
: every time.
Not fair. Jayasuriyas can haul him apart but they will rip anybody
apart. Srinath is going to be a mainstay in the team and has been bowling
very consistently and less expensive than other seamers.
You have any alternative?
: Prabhakar was slow but could swing the ball very well. Let Srinath first
: prove himself by taking wickets. Merely being fast is of new use.
: If you cared to read my thread I was speaking on the overall ability of a
: bowler , not speed alone.
In a comment on Srinath sometime back, SRT said that he should first
concentrate on pace (first beat the batsman by pace, is what he said).
: I did not include Srinath in the list of idiots because he has still time to
: prove himself. In the next couple of years we will know whether he is also
: another idiot or a good bowler.
Thanks.
(Kumar)
pb...@uow.edu.au
Regarding whatever is written below, these two persons are a real 'pain
in the arse'. They are writing unnecessary craps without any intelligent
approach to discuss an argument.
pb...@uow.edu.au
Let me add some more to this list:
1. Abid Ali
2. Russi Surti
3. Ramakanth desai
4. Subroto Guha
5. Ekki Solkar
6. K.Ghavri
7. Roger Binny
Anant
ref. <pb...@uow.edu.au>
>
>Let me add some more to this list:
>1. Abid Ali
nope. not fast [by test standards] perhaps, but not an idiot. did the job he
was expected to do. apparently he plays league, out in california. maybe
they can help y'all classify him to some other category?
>3. Ramakanth desai
never saw him. [nor surti.]
hey john hall, help me out, here. or is it the bajan? ok, i'll take help from
the enemy --anybody from shivaji park wants to 'defend' ramakant desai? ;-\
if he can get hanif mohammed in trouble... guess that's the kind of idiot
the indian team can use?
>5. Ekki Solkar
BZZZTT wrong again. ask geoffrey boycott. right, graham? john? ;-\ i think the
only other bowler(s) to worry boycott must have been holding (alderman?) ;-)
master spinner, too: here's gavaskar quoting solkar, "i spun the ball but
did not turn it." if someone renames VT or the Gateway,do it in his hono(u)r!
pataudi, wadekar seemed pretty happy w/ him. guess they were idiot captains.
>6. K.Ghavri
is that karsan ghavri? i think took a hundred wickets in tests. wasn't a kapil,
and "he *owned* greg chappell!" ;-\ w/o him, perhaps, no heroics from kapil
dev at the MCG in '81. BTW i've seen him bowl from about 20 yards away, and
i'd hate to take strike to him after calling him an idiot ;-/
fast enough for ME!
>7. Roger Binny
he swung the ball... a lot...strange, i guess ;-/ got some good test batsmen
in trouble, too! border, gooch, gower... must be useful to be an idiot ;-0
:-)
bueno, i'm gone.
--anant
Ashish Trivedi
> 3. Ramakanth desai
> 4. Subroto Guha
> 5. Ekki Solkar
> 6. K.Ghavri
Are you kidding?
Ghavri is among the best medium pacers
of past. Kapil & Ghavri opened India's
bowling for quite a long time. In Kapil's
own words, he learned many techniques
from Karsan Ghavri. Though Ghavri could
not maintain his form for a very long time,
but he definitely does not belong to this
list.
> 7. Roger Binny
Ashish Trivedi
S.Jagadish
>> 6. K.Ghavri
> ^^^^^^^^
Kaps and Ghavri were such a good opening bowling pair that NO team in the world
is said to have scored a century opening partnership against them ... is this
true ?
--
S.Jagadish
mailto:SF91...@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG
Nanyang Technological University
Die hard Kamal Haasan visiri ... "Vaazhga Kamal, Vaazhga Kalai"
Mayajaal : http://www2.ntu.ac.sg:8000/~sf918168/mayajaal.html
"Puns maybe bad, but poetry is verse"
Neeran M. Karnik
sf91...@gamma.ntu.ac.sg (S.Jagadish) writes:
>Kaps and Ghavri were such a good opening bowling pair that NO team in the world
>is said to have scored a century opening partnership against them ... is this
>true ?
This is true as far as Test matches are concerned, although a couple
of teams came close with partnerships of 90-odd. But there are
instances in other first-class games when 100+ opening partnerships
have been recorded with Kapil and Ghavri bowling. Still, it's an
impressive record considering that they opened the bowling together
in several Test series.
>S.Jagadish
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Neeran M. Karnik | #1 fan of Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar on r.s.c. :-> |
| Dept. of CompSci.| "Pele in football, Becker in tennis, Ali in |
| U of Minnesota | boxing. Sachin is in that league." - Tony Cozier |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dipak Basu
> >3. Ramakanth desai
>
> never saw him. [nor surti.]
> hey john hall, help me out, here. or is it the bajan? ok, i'll take help from
> the enemy --anybody from shivaji park wants to 'defend' ramakant desai? ;-\
> if he can get hanif mohammed in trouble... guess that's the kind of idiot
> the indian team can use?
You don't need Shivaji Park to defend Ramakant. Tiny Desai bowled genuine
bouncers to the likes of Harvey, Sobers and Cowdrey and generated a
surprising amount of pace when our batsmen were running away from Hall,
Gilchrist, Trueman and Davidson. Kept his place for some six or seven
seasons and swung his bat about for good scores more than once. I'd go as
far to say that India has had only three genuine fast bowlers in its
history: Nissar, Desai and Kapil.
Dipak.
Neeran M. Karnik
<pb...@uow.edu.au> writes:
>Let me add some more to this list:
>1. Abid Ali
>2. Russi Surti
>3. Ramakanth desai
>4. Subroto Guha
>5. Ekki Solkar
>6. K.Ghavri
>7. Roger Binny
Why don't we take the easy way out and say "every pace bowler who
ever played for India, except Kapil Dev". Oh wait, perhaps you want
to include Kapil as well in the list?
Jairaj, Vinod
HI!
I've heard that Desai was among the fastest bowlers for India. Of
course, I've never seen him in action (started watching cricket in the
80s). I was told that he once felled Ken Barrington with a bouncer. Later
Ken Barrington remarked "that bloke had a bouncer which defied his
size!!" I really don't think that Desai should be included in the list of
idiot fast bowlers from India.
Just as an aside, if anyone tries to make a list of all the idiot
fast bowlers from all over the world, who would get the # 1 ranking?? I
feel that there would be a big fight for that ranking. The most likely
contenders would be:
1. Martin Snedden
2. Danny Morrison
3. Gladstone Small
4. Devon Malcolm
Any more additions to that list???
Vinod
ta...@grove.ufl.edu
In article <dbasu-30049...@dynaserv-d2-199.cisco.com> db...@cisco.com (Dipak Basu) writes:
>seasons and swung his bat about for good scores more than once. I'd go as
>far to say that India has had only three genuine fast bowlers in its
>history: Nissar, Desai and Kapil.
>
>Dipak.
If the other two had only the same pace as Kapil at his fastest, then
I'd say that India had no genuine fast bowlers in its history.
Tanny
Anant
db...@cisco.com (Dipak Basu):
>In article <4m26hs$c...@newshost.nmt.edu>, an...@sphinx.cs.nmt.edu (Anant) wrote:
>
> >3. Ramakanth desai
>
>> never saw him. [nor surti.]
>> hey john hall, help me out, here. or is it the bajan? ok, i'll take help from
>> the enemy --anybody from shivaji park wants to 'defend' ramakant desai? ;-\
>> if he can get hanif mohammed in trouble... guess that's the kind of idiot
>> the indian team can use?
>You don't need Shivaji Park
dang! now there's an idea! dipak for mayor of bombay!!!!! :-)
>to defend Ramakant.
you're right, dipak. ramakant desai, abid ali, eknath solkar, roger binny,
karsan ghavri all played TEST cricket, and don't need to defend themselves,
or need anyone for their defence, ref being called "idiot." now if
(merchant, hazare,) umrigar, pataudi, wadekar, bedi, gavaskar, viswanath,
kapil (,vengsarkar, azhar,) maybe used the phrase 'idiot fast bowlers,'
i'd sit up and listen.
i didn't see desai in action. all the others always played hard, 'fighters'
should be judged w/ these players in mind, perhaps. they weren't great batsmen
and yet didnt give away their wickets as cheaply as some #2through#6.
but i guess if CHANDRASEKHAR can be called --->over-rated<--- i should go
back to hibernate, apnaa zamaanaa gaya! ;-/
>Tiny Desai bowled genuine
>bouncers
any more descriptions?
> Dipak.
--anant
Kumar Venkataraman
pb...@uow.edu.au wrote:
: 1. Abid Ali
Good utility cricketer. Top fielder in those days. Useful bat too.
Scored a useful knock for India's win at Oval, '71. Some fortyish?
But his best knock was a neat 71 (off 289, Gavaskar 101) at
Old Trafford in that '74 summer when we crumbled.
: 5. Ekki Solkar
Dont know how he fields at outfield. But an expert in taking some
lollipops off the quartet. IMO, an over-rated fielder. Occasionally
good bowler (if he gets more 2 overs). Never shone as a batsman,
except in that Bombay test aginst WI in '75. Raced to 76 in style
till the close of play, but next morning he was quite 'lively' and
somehow managed to score 102.
: 7. Roger Binny
Better than Venky Prasad of these days. Started as a decent
utility-type, but later he somehow hung around in the team just like
Venky Prasad does nowadays.
- Kumar
Gagan Agrawal
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960430...@black.weeg.uiowa.edu> "Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes:
>
>fast bowlers from all over the world, who would get the # 1 ranking?? I
>feel that there would be a big fight for that ranking. The most likely
>contenders would be:
>1. Martin Snedden
>2. Danny Morrison
>3. Gladstone Small
>4. Devon Malcolm
>Any more additions to that list???
>Vinod
Pakistan tried several ``idiotic'' bowlers in the 1980-85 period.
This was when Imran was going strong, Surfraz Nawaz (sp?) was
on the verge of retirement and Akram hadn't made is debut yet.
Some of the names that I can recall are:
1> Tahir Naqqash
2> Jalaluddin
3> Moin Khan
4> Salim Jaffar
England has tried at least 20 fast bowlers after retirement of
Bob Willis. Most of them looked completely out-of-sorts in
test cricket, so I guess they will qualify in this category as well.
Derek Pringle is one name I can easily think, anyone volunteering
to compile their names.
Nagesh Bhatcar
pb...@uow.edu.au wrote:
: Let me add some more to this list:
: 1. Abid Ali
: 2. Russi Surti
: 3. Ramakanth desai
: 4. Subroto Guha
: 5. Ekki Solkar
: 6. K.Ghavri
: 7. Roger Binny
I am rather surprised that my fellow netters simply pick up names and
classify them as idiot fast bowlers. Unless I have completely misunderstood the meaning of the word "idiot", I would like to provide my views on all the above
cricketers. I have been privileged enough to see Ramakant Desai bowl.
The pace that he generated from his small frame was quite astonishing, although I saw him at the fag end of his career. His teammates used to call him "Tiny".
I think that he has 50 wickets in Test matches.
Talking about Solkar, Surti and Abid Ali, they were no fast bowlers. They
were just utility men who could do something for their team. When they played
cricket, Indian bowling was dominated by the likes of Prasanna, Bedi, Chandra
and Venkat. These so-called fast bowlers merely went through the ritual of bowling an over or two to get the shine off the ball. Can anybody forget
Solkar's fielding abilities ? He has 53 catches in 27 tests !
No other cricketer other than a wicketkeeper has a better catching record.
Surti, Abid Ali and Solkar have been some of the best fielders that India
has ever had.
Ghavri was also an allrounder and has over 100 wickets in Tests. His best
ball was the one with which he bowled Greg Chappell in Melbourne in 1981
when India won an astonishing victory over Australia, with Dilip Doshi
and Kapil bowling exeptionally well and Vishy got a hundred. He had added
advantage of being a left arm medium pacer and also could spin the old ball.
Roger Binny also was a utility type cricketer and one should not forget
his 18 wickets in the 1983 World Cup.
Not until Kapil Dev came along did India have a genuine fast bowler. But by
the spinners had more or less disappeared. So do give these cricketers the
respect they deserve.
Nagesh
Brian D'Souza
nag...@laertes.homer.att.com (Nagesh Bhatcar) writes:
> pb...@uow.edu.au wrote:
>
> Not until Kapil Dev came along did India have a genuine fast bowler. But by
> the spinners had more or less disappeared. So do give these cricketers the
> respect they deserve.
>
>
> Nagesh
Well said. You had to have a big heart to play this thankless role back then.
Anant
ku...@scd.hp.com (Kumar Venkataraman):
>
>: 5. Ekki Solkar
>
>Dont know how he fields at outfield.
wadekar(his capn) has said that @times it was difficult to say who was better
in the deep, lloyd or solkar.
>But an expert in taking some
>lollipops off the quartet.
lollipops --i like that one!!! signals hibernation time for me ;-0
what kind of lollipops? lollipops, how?
he didn't play THAT long ago, get some photos. there even be some tv clips!
>IMO, an over-rated fielder.
2nd signal. plenty strong one ;-/
what's the rating? that'd be useful to know.
> Never shone as a batsman,
need he? he shouldn't have had to, if other people did their job!
for someone to come 4 or 5 drop and help get india out of the
muck... '71, '71 again, '72-3, '74, and '75 is all i can speak of.
3rd! Umpa' Cronk ex-Adelaide, you've shown me the way: i quit too ;-)
Jairaj, Vinod
HI!
You can include the following bowlers, too:
1. Asantha De Mal, SL
2. Vinodhan John, SL
3. Ateeq-ur-Rehman, Pak (this guy had an action which reminded me of
Thompson at his prime- he was mercilessly hammered by the opposition)
4. Ravi Ratnayake, SL
I feel that Austrailia and West Indies have produced the LEAST #
of idiot fast bowlers- can't remember any of them.
Vinod
Neeran M. Karnik
ta...@grove.ufl.edu () writes:
>(Dipak Basu) writes:
>>far to say that India has had only three genuine fast bowlers in its
>>history: Nissar, Desai and Kapil.
>>
>If the other two had only the same pace as Kapil at his fastest, then
>I'd say that India had no genuine fast bowlers in its history.
This isn't the first time I've heard this (from you Tanny) :-)
Frankly, I think it's no more than a minor quibble. There is no
accepted definition of a 'genuine fast' bowler, and IMHO there
shouldn't be one based on radar readings. Whether you classify a
bowler as 'fast' or 'fast-medium' or whatever, what finally matters
is whether the bowler was able to make the batsman "hurry" his
shots. i.e. if he had enough pace to make the pace itself a factor
in playing his bowling (along with swing and/or seam), then the
bowler must be considered 'fast' in a loose sense.
Kaleeswaran
In article <Dqp1y...@ulysses.homer.att.com>, nag...@laertes.homer.att.com (Nagesh Bhatcar) writes:
|> pb...@uow.edu.au wrote:
|> I am rather surprised that my fellow netters simply pick up names and
|> classify them as idiot fast bowlers. Unless I have completely misunderstood the meaning of the word "idiot", I would like to provide my views on all the above
|> cricketers. I have been privileged enough to see Ramakant Desai bowl.
|> The pace that he generated from his small frame was quite astonishing, although I saw him at the fag end of his career. His teammates used to call him "Tiny".
|> I think that he has 50 wickets in Test matches.
Agreed. Desai was considered very good at that time except for some immature
dudes on rsc who were born after his retirement and whose heroes are Vinod Bradman
Kambli.What can you expect from people who say Chandra is overrated and prefer likes of
Jadeja , Kirti Azad
|> Ghavri was also an allrounder and has over 100 wickets in Tests. His best
|> ball was the one with which he bowled Greg Chappell in Melbourne in 1981
|> when India won an astonishing victory over Australia, with Dilip Doshi
|> and Kapil bowling exeptionally well and Vishy got a hundred. He had added
|> advantage of being a left arm medium pacer and also could spin the old ball.
You are guilty of the same factual incorrectness that pervade rsc. The ball
that dismissed Greg C was not a great one. It was a short ball intended to be a bouncer.
Chappel was considered weak against the short stuff as soon as he came to the crease.
(view of the Indian team ) The Indian team planned it and asked Ghavri to deliver a
short one. Chappell ducked and alas the ball didn't get up at all and it crashed
onto the stumps.
Call it "IDEA BOWLING" or "intelligent bowling" whatever you want. Ghavri was lucky
with that delivery. Source: Sunil Gavaskar Presents. I saw the ball on TV.
|> Nagesh
regards
kaleeswaran
gkalee...@vnet.ibm.com Disclaimer: views are mine only
Dipak Basu
An interesting statistic that I haven't seen discussed in rsc is a ranking
of the number of tests a fast bowling duo has operated together.
Candidates here could be:
Hadlee/Chatfield
Lillee/Thomson
Willis/Botham
Miller/Lindwall
Trueman/Statham
Imran/Sarfraz
Wasim/Waqar
Marshall/Holding
Davidson/McKenzie
Prewar bowling pairs won't make this list unless we also compare wickets
taken against tests played and come up with an average. Then we can see
the comparitive performance of great oldies, Richardson and Peel, Tate and
Gilligan, Lohmann and Hearne, etc.
Any takers?
Dipak.
Dipak Basu
In article
<Pine.A32.3.91.960430...@black.weeg.uiowa.edu>, "Jairaj,
Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
> Just as an aside, if anyone tries to make a list of all the idiot
> fast bowlers from all over the world, who would get the # 1 ranking?? I
> feel that there would be a big fight for that ranking. The most likely
> contenders would be:
> 1. Martin Snedden
> 2. Danny Morrison
> 3. Gladstone Small
> 4. Devon Malcolm
>
> Any more additions to that list???
>
Well, I saw Raju Kulkarni trip over his own feet and fall during his runup
in a test match! That should merit top ranking.
Dipak.
Dilip Soman
In article <dbasu-01059...@dynaserv-d2-205.cisco.com>,
Dipak Basu <db...@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>Well, I saw Raju Kulkarni trip over his own feet and fall during his runup
>in a test match! That should merit top ranking.
>
>Dipak.
That was not Raju Kulkarni. Bharat Arun did that on his debut ball in
test cricket.
John Hall
In article <4m5m3q$g...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>, ta...@grove.ufl.edu
writes
>In article <dbasu-30049...@dynaserv-d2-199.cisco.com> db...@cisco.com
>(Dipak Basu) writes:
>>seasons and swung his bat about for good scores more than once. I'd go as
>>history: Nissar, Desai and Kapil.
>>
>
>
>If the other two had only the same pace as Kapil at his fastest, then
>I'd say that India had no genuine fast bowlers in its history.
>
Nissar was supposed to be pretty quick, according to what I've read. I
think in the 1930s he was ranked for speed in the same category as
Larwood and Martindale.
--
"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for
subtlety."
Isaac Asimov
John Hall
In article <4m60qp$q...@remora.cs.umd.edu>, Gagan Agrawal
<ga...@cs.umd.edu> writes
>
>England has tried at least 20 fast bowlers after retirement of
>Bob Willis. Most of them looked completely out-of-sorts in
>test cricket, so I guess they will qualify in this category as well.
>Derek Pringle is one name I can easily think, anyone volunteering
>to compile their names.
>
bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
in fact.
Dipak Basu
> >Tiny Desai bowled genuine
> >bouncers
>
> any more descriptions?
>
Another way to put it is: Desai IMHO will make it into one of that
armchair all-time Indian dream team, together with Kapil, Bedi, Chandra,
Kirmani, Gavaskar and Viswanath. Thereafter any nomination is flame-bait.
Dipak.
Nagesh Bhatcar
Kumar Venkataraman (ku...@scd.hp.com) wrote:
: pb...@uow.edu.au wrote:
: : 5. Ekki Solkar
: Dont know how he fields at outfield. But an expert in taking some
: lollipops off the quartet. IMO, an over-rated fielder. Occasionally
: good bowler (if he gets more 2 overs). Never shone as a batsman,
: except in that Bombay test aginst WI in '75. Raced to 76 in style
: till the close of play, but next morning he was quite 'lively' and
: somehow managed to score 102.
: - Kumar
Well, Solkar is one of the best fielders that India has had at any time
in its cricketing history. He could field in any position but his services
were never required in the deep, as he was close-in almost from over # 2 or
3 ! I had mentioned in my previous follow-up that he has 53 catches in 27
Tests and I believe that no cricketer other than a wicket keeper has a
better catches per game ratio. I guess one of thos statistics-minded fellow
netters could verify that. I am sure that the spin quartet could confirm the
edge that he provided with his sharp catches.
About his batting, he was at the height of his career,termed as " Mr.Dependable"
and has quite a few knocks down in the order where he saved the Test matches
for India; especially in the 71 series against England and the WI. Again, I
think he does have over a thousand runs in Test cricket. Unfortunately, he was
not around at the time of the modern one-day cricket, where he definitely could
have proved to be more than dependable.
Nagesh
Anant
db...@cisco.com (Dipak Basu):
>
>> >Tiny Desai bowled genuine
>> >bouncers
>>
>> any more descriptions?
>>
i meant: tell me more. about others, too.
>Another way to put it is: Desai IMHO will make it into one of that
>armchair all-time Indian dream team, together with Kapil, Bedi, Chandra,
>Kirmani, Gavaskar and Viswanath.
chyayla!! ?uta, you don't learn, do you? 28hrs of scanning and i'm much wiser.
where have you BEEN? chandra is over-rated. scratch chandra. his short-leg,
solkar, snapped up lollipops. solkar is over-rated. so don't even consider
him. bedi had solkar close in, too: dump bedi. gavaskar? he shows false
modesty by not including himself in his best ever indian XI. cannot have
such deceit on the team. plus we know he only scored against weak pace attacks
anyway. toss gavaskar out. kapil wasn't a genuine fast bowler. cannot have
him, either. didn't viswanath recall bob taylor?? not quite cricket. kirmani..
uhh... he was on the team(s) that had all these gabbars, surely he cannot be
michael jordan of wicketkeeping?? !no va!
that leaves such rabble like ramakant desai, mohinder amarnath, abid ali,
roger binny, karsan ghavri. couple of them i think played when merchant
was a selector. others played under umrigar, (hazare?) pataudi, wadekar.
repeatedly showing bad judgement?? they're scratched too! nope, none of
these pretenders, and not one of those primas donnas either!
any other players?.....
> Thereafter any nomination is flame-bait.
.....see? easy. no nominations, no bait, no flames. this won't do. before i
go away, i nominate The Cronk Man. he took a wicket with his 1st and his
last deliveries. which is more than i've ever done (honest!! :-)
>Dipak.
Nagesh Bhatcar
Dilip Soman (pds...@gsbphd.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: In article <dbasu-01059...@dynaserv-d2-205.cisco.com>,
: Dipak Basu <db...@cisco.com> wrote:
In fact, Raju Kulkarni did fall during his runup in a Test match ! I know that
the Tamil Nadu paceman did too.
Nagesh
Vaibhav A. Diwadkar
In article <4m5i9i$m...@hpscit.sc.hp.com> Kumar Venkataraman,
ku...@scd.hp.com writes:
>: 5. Ekki Solkar
>
>Dont know how he fields at outfield. But an expert in taking some
>lollipops off the quartet. IMO, an over-rated fielder.
!!!!!!!!!!! Are we talking about Ekky Solkar, perhaps the most brilliant
close-in fielder in the history of cricket? The man who averages 2
catches per
test (higher than any other fielder in history?). The man who's ability
to anticipate
catches was so awesome that he would "drop" catches which didn't even
exist
for lesser mortals! The man who took perhaps THE most famous catch in the
history of Indian test cricket:
Alan Knott c. Solkar b. Venkat Oval '71
There are few universal "truths" about Indian cricket but one of them is
Ekky Solkar's
sheer genius as a fielder. Overrate him only at the peril of
jeopardizing your
reputation on this group as a keen follower of cricket :-)
>Occasionally
>good bowler (if he gets more 2 overs). Never shone as a batsman,
>except in that Bombay test aginst WI in '75. Raced to 76 in style
>till the close of play, but next morning he was quite 'lively' and
>somehow managed to score 102.
You forget some at least 2 other unforgettable performances Ekky gave in
the
Windies in '71 to save our bacon when all was almost lost. Ekky and
Sardesai were
the relatively unsung heroes of that series.
>: 7. Roger Binny
>
>Better than Venky Prasad of these days. Started as a decent
>utility-type, but later he somehow hung around in the team just like
>Venky Prasad does nowadays.
I'd take Binny and Madan Lal bowling with their left hands rather than
Prasad (we're talking ODIs I assume) :-)
I only read this group sporadically these days so if you must flame me
do so
via email :-)
Regards,
- Vaibhav [who cannot, simply cannot believe that in the last fortnight
Chandrasekhar
AND Solkar have been called overrated at what they did best!]
Venkatesh Sridharan
Neeran M. Karnik (kar...@cs.umn.edu) wrote:
: >If the other two had only the same pace as Kapil at his fastest, then
: >I'd say that India had no genuine fast bowlers in its history.
: This isn't the first time I've heard this (from you Tanny) :-)
: Frankly, I think it's no more than a minor quibble. There is no
: accepted definition of a 'genuine fast' bowler, and IMHO there
: shouldn't be one based on radar readings. Whether you classify a
: bowler as 'fast' or 'fast-medium' or whatever, what finally matters
: is whether the bowler was able to make the batsman "hurry" his
: shots. i.e. if he had enough pace to make the pace itself a factor
: in playing his bowling (along with swing and/or seam), then the
: bowler must be considered 'fast' in a loose sense.
: Neeran M. Karnik
-------
Honestly, this is the best definition of 'fast bowling' that I've
heard. I've heard others claim that a "minimum of 85 mph" would make
a bowler fast, but that somehow does'nt make sense.
For those interested, Gavaskar asked Viv to define 'fast' (bowling)
once (Gavaskar was then the editor of an Indian mag, 'Sportsweek'),
and Viv said (something like): "... somebody who's _so_ quick that,
after the first ball of the over, the batsman is wondering how the
hell he's going to last the rest of the over.." (if I were Gav, I'd
have asked Viv if anybody'd ever made him feel that way :-) In the
same interview, Viv also mentioned a spell in Barbados that he faced
from Thomson as the quickest he'd played ("... you'd look at him
and the ball would already be through...". For the curious, Viv
scored 23, and got out "trying to hit Thomson out of the attack".)
Thomson, for his part, also remembers the spell. Supposedly, this
was _just_ after the Packer mess began, and Australia had dropped
all the Packer players (Thomson did not sign on initially), but
Windies had'nt. And Thomson was supposedly upset that the second
string, young Aussie batsmen were having to take on a full strength
West Indian pace attack, and so decided to show the Windies a
thing or two. Thomson and Richards, after some initial rivalry
later became very good friends, and were partners in some radio
station in Australia. Thomson, by the way, comes across as a
very soft-spoken sortof chap off the field (and years after
retirement)... there's this video on Richards where he talks about
"smashing Viv on the hand" with one ball, and then getting hit
into the stands off the next couple of deliveries... he came across
as being as much an admirer of Viv's abilities as anybody on rsc
:-)
Other misc. stuff about fast bowling/bowlers:
Tendulkar seems to think that Walsh is the best quick he's played
( not Ambrose, not Akram, not Younus). Said something like "... he
does'nt bowl fast all the time, but when you relax, he bowls one
that reaches the keeper even before you know what's happening..."
Plus all the usual stuff about moving the ball both ways, thinking
the batsman out etc.
Walsh, when he first made the West Indies team, sounded quite
upset about what he said the West Indies was looking for in a pace
bowler: "... just pace, pace, pace... but there's much more to
fast bowling". Well, 300+ wickets and ten years down the road,
he's proved his point!
Marshall and Sobers had some kind of minor showdown when Sobers
was in his forties... Sobers mentions this in passing in his
autobio. Says he about Marshall: "... a presumptuous man.. was
always that way.." or something like that :-) About their
'showdown', he says that the locals were saying that Marshall
was "waiting", and that he (Marshall) "will still remember our
meeting". I guess Marshall got caned :-)
Viv and Marshall came up in a boundary-needed-off-the-last-ball
situation in a county game in the late 80s. Viv supposedly
pulled a short ball out of the ground to take his team to victory.
Marshall reportedly told him later that that was the "biggest
six" anybody'd hit off his bowling. Kidding, I suppose...
Unfortunately for the stats (Syed :-), Holding sounded pretty
pessimistic when he was asked about what he would do againstt
Viv (when in India in 1983, I think). Said something like:
"...well, if it's his day, there's really nothing to do..."
Holding rates Peter Willey as the batsman who's given him the
toughest time (!).
Well, this could go on...
Win or lose, forever Windies.
Venky (Venkatesh Sridharan).
Neeran M. Karnik
pds...@gsbphd.uchicago.edu (Dilip Soman) writes:
>Dipak Basu <db...@cisco.com> wrote:
>>Well, I saw Raju Kulkarni trip over his own feet and fall during his runup
>>in a test match! That should merit top ranking.
>>
>>Dipak.
>That was not Raju Kulkarni. Bharat Arun did that on his debut ball in
>test cricket.
Actually Raju Kulkarni also fell once in Australia, during the B & H.
But he didn't "trip over his own feet" :-) His almost twisted his
ankle when his front foot landed on the left edge of his shoe, and
he skidded and fell... Didn't injure himself though, 'cos he continued
bowling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neeran Karnik ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dept. of Computer Science, | Email: kar...@cs.umn.edu
University of Minnesota | kar...@staff.tc.umn.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Renal Bhalakia
>
> >>
> >Well, I saw Raju Kulkarni trip over his own feet and fall during his runup
> >in a test match! That should merit top ranking.
> >
> >Dipak.
>
> That was not Raju Kulkarni. Bharat Arun did that on his debut ball in
> test cricket.
Raju Kulkarni did fall over his own feet in a few matches during 85-86 WSC
champiosnship in Australia.
--
Renal.
===============================================================================
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WWW : http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/~ccrenal
Address : 110 Dorsey St., #205, Columbia, MO 65201.
Phone : 573-449-2892
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?"
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===============================================================================
Nagesh Bhatcar
Kaleeswaran (kal...@eswar.ims.advantis.com) wrote:
: |> Ghavri was also an allrounder and has over 100 wickets in Tests. His best
: |> ball was the one with which he bowled Greg Chappell in Melbourne in 1981
: |> when India won an astonishing victory over Australia, with Dilip Doshi
: |> and Kapil bowling exeptionally well and Vishy got a hundred. He had added
: |> advantage of being a left arm medium pacer and also could spin the old ball.
:You are guilty of the same factual incorrectness that pervade rsc. The ball
:that dismissed Greg C was not a great one. It was a short ball intended to be
:a bouncer. Chappel was considered weak against the short stuff as soon as he ca:me to the crease. (view of the Indian team ) The Indian team planned it and
:asked Ghavri to deliver a short one. Chappell ducked and alas the ball didn't :get up at all and it crashed onto the stumps.
:Call it "IDEA BOWLING" or "intelligent bowling" whatever you want. Ghavri was l:ucky with that delivery. Source: Sunil Gavaskar Presents. I saw the ball on TV.
: |> Nagesh
: regards
: kaleeswaran
: gkalee...@vnet.ibm.com Disclaimer: views are mine only
The mention of the ball that bowled Greg Chappell was not intended to either
enhance Ghavri's reputation nor to mislead anybody. In the absence of a photographic memory I am unable to contest your "IDEA BOWLING" strategy. Probably that ball might have been the turning point in the game as India was defending a very small total. Again, my emphasis is in trying to disprove the claims of a few whohave classified Ghavri as an "idiot fast bowler" !
Nagesh
Rick Eyre
db...@cisco.com (Dipak Basu) writes:
>An interesting statistic that I haven't seen discussed in rsc is a ranking
>of the number of tests a fast bowling duo has operated together.
>Candidates here could be:
>
>Hadlee/Chatfield
I don't think the Hadlee/Chatfield combination is even a shadow of any of
the combinations below
>Willis/Botham
Nor do I recall Willis and Botham ever being considered a duet as such.
>Imran/Sarfraz
Again, hardly an all-time great bowling *duo*
>Lillee/Thomson
>Miller/Lindwall
>Trueman/Statham
>Wasim/Waqar
>Davidson/McKenzie
No probs with any of the above five pairs as post-war great duos.
>Marshall/Holding
To this duo, you could add:
Roberts/Holding
Holding/Garner
Garner/Croft
Holding/Croft
Garner/Marshall
Marshall/Ambrose
Ambrose/Walsh
Ambrose/Bishop
Marshall/Patterson
and probably other West Indian combinations over the past twenty years,
but don't forget also:
Hall/Griffith
| Rick Eyre ri...@gloop.hna.com.au |
| Lake Macquarie NSW Australia http://www.ozemail.com.au/~reyre |
| My current World Test XI: 1.Taylor 2.Slater 3.Lara 4.Inzamam |
| 5.S.Waugh 6.McMillan 7.Akram 8.Russell 9.Warne 10.Walsh 11.Donald |
HOWZAT
"Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>HI!
> You can include the following bowlers, too:
>1. Asantha De Mal, SL
De Mel wasn't too bad a bowler
>2. Vinodhan John, SL
If this guy was fast I'll eat my undies.
>3. Ateeq-ur-Rehman, Pak (this guy had an action which reminded me of
>Thompson at his prime- he was mercilessly hammered by the opposition)
>4. Ravi Ratnayake, SL
> I feel that Austrailia and West Indies have produced the LEAST #
>of idiot fast bowlers- can't remember any of them.
This guy wasn't too bad
HOWZAT
"Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>HI!
> I've heard that Desai was among the fastest bowlers for India. Of
>course, I've never seen him in action (started watching cricket in the
>80s). I was told that he once felled Ken Barrington with a bouncer. Later
>Ken Barrington remarked "that bloke had a bouncer which defied his
>size!!" I really don't think that Desai should be included in the list of
>idiot fast bowlers from India.
> Just as an aside, if anyone tries to make a list of all the idiot
>fast bowlers from all over the world, who would get the # 1 ranking?? I
>feel that there would be a big fight for that ranking. The most likely
>contenders would be:
>1. Martin Snedden
>2. Danny Morrison
>3. Gladstone Small
>4. Devon Malcolm
>Any more additions to that list???
As a Warwickshire man I object most strongly to Small being on the
list, I also think Devon isn't too bad either. I would put the
following on the list :-
1 - Ottis gibson
2 - Liaqat Ali Khan
3 - Ehtesh-am-ud-din
4 - Heath Davis
5 - Suru Nayak
6 - Paul Jarvis
7 - Neal Radford
8 - Henry Olonga
Peter Williams
>From: ri...@gloop.hna.com.au (Rick Eyre)
>Subject: Re: Famous pairs of opening bowlers
>Date: Sat, 04 May 1996 14:52:00 AEST
>db...@cisco.com (Dipak Basu) writes:
>>An interesting statistic that I haven't seen discussed in rsc is a ranking
>>of the number of tests a fast bowling duo has operated together.
>>Candidates here could be:
>>
>>Hadlee/Chatfield
>I don't think the Hadlee/Chatfield combination is even a shadow of any of
>the combinations below
He said famous, not brilliant. Hadlee & Chatfiled are world famous (in NZ)
so the ad goes. Besides Dipak was trying to point to the longevity of their
partnership and H&C were partnered for a long time.
Latet
Kaleeswaran
In article <Dqu1v...@ulysses.homer.att.com>, nag...@laertes.homer.att.com (Nagesh Bhatcar) writes:
|> Kaleeswaran (kal...@eswar.ims.advantis.com) wrote:
|>
|> : |> Ghavri was also an allrounder and has over 100 wickets in Tests. His best
|> : |> ball was the one with which he bowled Greg Chappell in Melbourne in 1981
|> : |> when India won an astonishing victory over Australia, with Dilip Doshi
|> : |> and Kapil bowling exeptionally well and Vishy got a hundred. He had added
|> : |> advantage of being a left arm medium pacer and also could spin the old ball.
|>
|> :You are guilty of the same factual incorrectness that pervade rsc. The ball
|> :that dismissed Greg C was not a great one. It was a short ball intended to be
|> :a bouncer. Chappel was considered weak against the short stuff as soon as he ca:me to the crease. (view of the Indian team ) The Indian team planned it and
|> :asked Ghavri to deliver a short one. Chappell ducked and alas the ball didn't :get up at all and it crashed onto the stumps.
|>
|> :Call it "IDEA BOWLING" or "intelligent bowling" whatever you want. Ghavri was l:ucky with that delivery. Source: Sunil Gavaskar Presents. I saw the ball on TV.
|>
|> : |> Nagesh
|> : kaleeswaran
|> The mention of the ball that bowled Greg Chappell was not intended to either
|> enhance Ghavri's reputation nor to mislead anybody. In the absence of a
photographic memory I am unable to contest your "IDEA BOWLING" strategy. Probably that
ball might have been the turning point in the game as India was defending a very small
total. Again, my emphasis is in trying to disprove the claims of a few whohave
classified Ghavri as an "idiot fast bowler" !
|>
|> Nagesh
The whole episode was described by Sunil Gavaskar while presenting this match on TV
and how the Indian team planned it as well and they were lucky still even with the ball
going awry(read: ball not bouncing). So it is not MY THEORY you are failing to contest.
Again I wrote that piece just to highlight that how rsc seems to thrive on factual
incorrectness and consequently showering glory on certain people like calling
Shane Warne will be thrashed by Indians just because Vinod Bradman Kambli
blasted him in a couple of balls in an ODI, Chandra was overrated etc..
Your intention was to describe dismissal of Chappel as a "memorable ball". But when
somebody says "best ball" the normal meaning associated with that term is "that the
ball was indeed great". Ghavri really bowled some real good ones, dismissals of Gower
and Kallicharan shouldering arms to incutters being gems. He was a good spin bowler too
and took some wickets in tests with spin, famous being aginst England in Bombay.
Hugh Roberts
P.R.Wi...@massey.ac.nz (Peter Williams) wrote:
<snip>
>He said famous, not brilliant. Hadlee & Chatfiled are world famous (in NZ)
>so the ad goes. Besides Dipak was trying to point to the longevity of their
>partnership and H&C were partnered for a long time.
In my recollection, Chatfield very rarely opened the bowling with Hadlee.
We were always scratching around for a quick bowler to pair Hadlee with,
and consequently we tended to serve up Hadlee + Rubbish rather than
Hadlee + accurate, containing bowling. Hadlee and Chatfield would only
work in tandem when Hadlee came on for later spells. Does anyone have any
stats about this? I'd be interested to know if my memory served me
accurately or not. I certainly remember having arguments about this in
the 80s, and feeling that New Zealand would have done a great deal better
to let Chatfield have a crack at the new ball.
Cheers
Hugh Roberts
Mohammad A. Rahin
In article <5gkLldAG...@jhall.demon.co.uk>,
John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <4m60qp$q...@remora.cs.umd.edu>, Gagan Agrawal
><ga...@cs.umd.edu> writes
>>
>>England has tried at least 20 fast bowlers after retirement of
>>Bob Willis. Most of them looked completely out-of-sorts in
>>test cricket, so I guess they will qualify in this category as well.
>>Derek Pringle is one name I can easily think, anyone volunteering
>>to compile their names.
>>
>I think Pringle would feel very flattered to be described as a "fast"
>bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
>English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
>in fact.
Syd Lawrence (sp?) had a test debut before Dev Malcom and I think he was
classed as a fast bowler.
- Rahin
John Hall
In article <1996May7.0...@leeds.ac.uk>, "Mohammad A. Rahin"
<ra...@scs.leeds.ac.uk> writes
You're quite right. I had forgotten Lawrence, who because his kneecap
shattered had looked as though he might have been the fast bowler that
England had been looking for.
--
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend
upon the support of Paul."
Syed M. Ali
In article <4mc3gu$n...@news.utdallas.edu>, venk...@utdallas.edu (Venkatesh Sridharan) writes:
]>
<...some very interesting anecdotes deleted...>
]> Unfortunately for the stats (Syed :-), Holding sounded pretty
]> pessimistic when he was asked about what he would do againstt
]> Viv (when in India in 1983, I think). Said something like:
]> "...well, if it's his day, there's really nothing to do..."
]> Holding rates Peter Willey as the batsman who's given him the
]> toughest time (!).
Come on Venky :-) I've never tried to come across as a stats
fan(atic) :-)) I just maintain that using stats. is a far more
objective (though not necessarily accurate) way to rate a batsman
(or for that matter a bowler) than the method you employ above.
After all you have used statistics in the past to show the
superiority of pace bowlers against spinners...
In general, I love playing the devil's advocate (and all that in the
name of constructive debate, too :-))
BTW, here is what Bedi has to say about Viv (the only one of its
kind I've read, I must admit) courtesy CI ofcourse:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I first saw Viv Richards in 1974 when I was disciplined for one
Test at Bangalore. I was back for the next Test at Delhi, where
Viv blasted the Indian attack to the tune of 192 runs. Yet, I
don't think I was convinced then, that he was a terribly great
player. Thanks to the generosity of some umpiring decisions, he
got away.
He always wanted to dominate the bowlers and thats the kind of
batman I like to bowl to. He took a chance against a bowler who
liked to dominate. He tried too many shots and anyone who plays
too many shots, gives the bowlers opportunities to get the better
of the batsman. For a player of Richards' calibre, myself and
Hanumant Singh, who is a tremendously good judge of a cricketer,
felt that he played too many loose shots.
He was a great player no doubt, but he would have been greater if
he had controlled his aggression. This aggression might have led
to his downfall on many occasions and one particular bowler
against whom he was never comfortable, never ever, was Bhagwat
Chandrasekhar. I have seen Chandra bowl to him and Viv knew very
little about him. And the number of times, he was missed off
Chandra was unbelievable.
I don't think he was any different from others. I wouldn't
compare him with anyone. If I were to compare him with say Barry
Richards, I would say that Barry was more compact. Barry would
get bored and gift his wicket but Viv would enjoy his cricket;
have a laugh, on the field and off it. Viv was a tremendous
entertainer but I wouldn't rate him higher than somebody like
Visvanath, Zaheer Abbas, Gavaskar... but he was more dominating.
He couldn't do that to Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson. He even
forgot his batting number. But later he did come good against
them. Until then, the most fearsome bowler for him, in fact for
eternity, would have to be Bhagwat Chandrasekhar.
He was a very hard hitter of the ball. Lot of people have talked
about him in the same vein as Sir Donald Bradman. That is not
on. To my mind, the West Indies has produced far more at-
tractive batsmen like Clive Lloyd, Conrad Hunte and Gary
Sobers. Even Larry Gomes was far more reliable. Viv's
reliability depended on the day. If it was his day, he would
demolish any attack. If it wasn't his day, that was the end of
it. I used to psyche him. I used to work on his ego. I always
bowled with a slip, a gully, a silly-point and a forward
shortleg, which hurt him, hurt his ego. That's what I wanted. I
have done that to Barry Richards also. In both the cases, I got
the better of them. It was just a matter of mind over matter,
and also a battle of wits.
If the opposition was weak, he wouldn't graft or take the
opportunity to hit a big score. Irrespective of whether he did
or did not, he was far too arrogant. The only good series he had
was in England in 1976 when he really bashed the English
bowlers. That was incredible. The Englishmen just did not know
how to get him out.
He had an ingrained system, which I feel proud of, the pride in
being a black. He wanted to prove that blacks were as good as
anyone else in the world. And that is what I respected him
mostfor. Whenever it came to England, he thrashed them, he
really thrashed them to bits. He was a very good player of fast
bowling but I am not too sure if he was as good against the
spinners.
Viv was a super human being. He was full of fun and very fond of
good things in life. In Antigua he is treated like a king. He
has set an example for others to follow in his island. He had
set an example with his professional appraoach. Vi has been one
of the greatest assets to West Indian cricket. He never let his
team down, even in county cricket. He was a very committed
man. His athleticism was such that very few people could match
him. A lot of people under-estimated his bowling. Look at his
record in one-day cricket, he was a successful off-spin bowler.
All said and done, he was a great player.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I wonder if these comments are Bedi's genuine opinion of Viv, or
did he carry some sort of grudge against him? A genuine query
this one!
Syed
]> Well, this could go on...
]>
]>
]> Win or lose, forever Windies.
]> Venky (Venkatesh Sridharan).
--
**************************** Real Programmer ****************************
Real Programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write,
it should be hard to understand and harder to modify.
**************************** ~/.\-/.\-/.\./~****************************
John Hall
In article <a3Vn5VAJ...@jhall.demon.co.uk>, John Hall
<jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <1996May7.0...@leeds.ac.uk>, "Mohammad A. Rahin"
><ra...@scs.leeds.ac.uk> writes
>>In article <5gkLldAG...@jhall.demon.co.uk>,
>> John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>I think Pringle would feel very flattered to be described as a "fast"
>>>bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
>>>English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
>>>in fact.
>>
>>Syd Lawrence (sp?) had a test debut before Dev Malcom and I think he was
>>classed as a fast bowler.
>
>You're quite right. I had forgotten Lawrence, who because his kneecap
>shattered had looked as though he might have been the fast bowler that
>England had been looking for.
Oops. "Because" should have been "before", of course.
--
One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is
the belief that one's work is terribly important.
Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
HOWZAT
ra...@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Mohammad A. Rahin) wrote:
>In article <5gkLldAG...@jhall.demon.co.uk>,
> John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <4m60qp$q...@remora.cs.umd.edu>, Gagan Agrawal
>><ga...@cs.umd.edu> writes
>>>
>>>England has tried at least 20 fast bowlers after retirement of
>>>Bob Willis. Most of them looked completely out-of-sorts in
>>>test cricket, so I guess they will qualify in this category as well.
>>>Derek Pringle is one name I can easily think, anyone volunteering
>>>to compile their names.
>>>
>>I think Pringle would feel very flattered to be described as a "fast"
>>bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
>>English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
>>in fact.
>Syd Lawrence (sp?) had a test debut before Dev Malcom and I think he was
>classed as a fast bowler.
Lawrence was always on local TV as a "body-poppin" cricketer (it was a
style of dancing popular in the late eighties) and he used to say he
was a rockin and a rumblin when he ran in. I liked Lawrence, he gave
his all and wasn't too bad either.
ta...@grove.ufl.edu
In article <a3Vn5VAJ...@jhall.demon.co.uk> John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In article <1996May7.0...@leeds.ac.uk>, "Mohammad A. Rahin"
><ra...@scs.leeds.ac.uk> writes
>> John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>I think Pringle would feel very flattered to be described as a "fast"
>>>bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
>>>English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
>>>in fact.
>>
>>Syd Lawrence (sp?) had a test debut before Dev Malcom and I think he was
>>classed as a fast bowler.
>
>England had been looking for.
What about that kid that England took to the second blackwash. He
was supposed to be genuinely fast, and he did trouble the WIians
once or twice. I remember him giving away 100+ runs in 15 overs
in one of the Tests.
Tanny
vadertime
ta...@grove.ufl.edu () wrote:
>Tanny
J G Thomas of Glamorgan
What time is it - Vadertime
---------------------------------------------------------------
VADERTIME
vade...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------
John Hall
In article <4mvu3v$k...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>, ta...@grove.ufl.edu
writes
[re truly fast England bowlers]
>
>What about that kid that England took to the second blackwash. He
>was supposed to be genuinely fast, and he did trouble the WIians
>once or twice. I remember him giving away 100+ runs in 15 overs
>in one of the Tests.
Greg Thomas of Glamorgan? (His full name is John Gregory Thomas, but one
understands his not wanting to be known as John Thomas!)
--
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
"Hegel was right when he said that we learn from history
that man can never learn anything from history."
Christian Kelly
John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>I think Pringle would feel very flattered to be described as a "fast"
>>>bowler. After Willis and before Malcolm, I can't think off-hand of any
>>>English bowler who could really be described as more than "fast-medium",
What about Norman Cowans?
--
Cheers
Christian Kelly
"His manuscript was both good and original, but the part that was good
was not original, and the part that was original was not good."
sagarsh...@gmail.com
Ravi Krishna
Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
to someone who can complete this:-
1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil has done that even once. He too had a
major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
mention.
3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
eating people can't be fast bowlers.
4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
5. Sanjeev Sharma - First rate idiot. I never saw him swing even an inch.
6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
Sharma.
7. Salil Ankola - YUK. I am surprised that there are supporters for ankola
even today. (West ??). Should have retired by now.
8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
9. Saurab Ganguly - How can a Bengali be a fast bowler.
10. Banerjee - Chatterjee,Banerjee NO ENERGY.
11. Prasad - USELESS.
12. Vaidya - Latest addition to this list. I believe he can easily
walk into indian women team. No speed , no bounce. Two years back in an
article in SUNDAY , Ravi Shastri mentioned that Vaiyda is the only bowler who
can swing both ways and is India's best bowler. Now either Vidya must have
paid him to say such things or it is regional bias which made Shastri glorify
Vaidya. Shastri should realise that he should not unnecssarily play with
emotions of Indian cricket fans who are still waiting for the day when India
will get a good fast bowler.
vsom
My modifications/additions to Ravi Shekar's list:
Raju Kulkarni - Also had a tremendous ability to fall down on his arse
after delivering the ball. Did this repeatedly at the international
level.
> 5. Sanjeev Sharma - First rate idiot. I never saw him swing even an
inch. This guy had a leg action that so awkward that I always felt he
would kick the umpire's butt when bowling round the wicket.
6. Madan Lal - Ran in faster than he actually bowled. The ball tended to
pass over his head by the time he had reached mid-pitch on his
follow-through.
7. Rashid Patel - Played one or two ODIs against the Kiwis a couple of
years ago. Left-hand seamer who reputedly had Gavaskar bowled for pace.
Better known for picking up a wicket to bash in Raman Lamba's head in a
local game.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vishnudeep Som /.
Graduate School of Communications o__ _|_ .--.
Carleton University ___-o____/-- `---"---" "---.___
Ottawa, Canada. `------------------------------'
email:vs...@ccs.carleton.ca.
tel.: (613) 521-8013
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kaleeswaran
T.A. Sekar was unfortunate. He lacked fitness and from what I have heard from the
cricketing circles of Madras didn't shut up his mouth and fell victim.
|> 2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
|> Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
|> it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil hasn't done that even once. He too had a
|> major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
|> never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
|> mention.
"Sidhu" of Indian bowling. If he bowls a yorker he gets backache. A bouncer.
bounces him for next two tests on fitness grounds.
|> 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
|> first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
|> eating people can't be fast bowlers.
Bharat Arun was in Indian team for other than cricketing considerations and the
fact that he captained the junior team. Nothing to do with his eating habits.
|> 4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
|> only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
|> left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
|> use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
Iam convinced that you haven't seen Raju Kulkarni. Iam from the deepest south in
India. He was definitely a good bowler. He was out of the team on "Quota system".
If he had got as many chances as Chetan S, then we would have seen something else.
FYI Kulkarni was rated highly by Clive Lloyd and others at that time.
|> 6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
|> 8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
Vivek Razdan met the same fate as Kulkarni. He bowled well in the only test
he played and was fairly lively. As Mohinder and Sunny said "selectors are a bunch of
jokers".
Wassan, Razdan, Yograj Singh ,Sekar were lively. Sekar in fact was fastest at
that time.
Other names that we miss out who were unlucky to come into national consideration
are Pandurang Salgoankar and Barun Burman
Another point to remember is that lots of these pace ( I don't want to use the term
fast) bowlers bag wickets in bags in local matches, but fail on wickets abroad .
Reason. Not using their brain. To their defence, one shouldnt' expect a debutant to
do wonders with so much of anxiety and tension. Try him out in a full series and then
judge them. Sadly all of them get thrown out within one test or two.
Whereas real jokers like Suru Nayak (though as an allrounder) were lucky to even board
the plane to England.
kaleeswaran
gkalee...@vnet.ibm.com Disclaimer: Views are mine only
Venkatesh Kambhammettu
: 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
: first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
: eating people can't be fast bowlers.
what crap are you talking? srinath is also idli/sambar eating guy and
he is the fastest bowler. faster than all non-idli/sambar eating
bowlers like prabhakar, kapil, bupinder singh (heh heh heh), vaidya....
and the list goes on. please don't come up with stupid baseless conclusions.
btw, i don't care whether the bowler is idli/sambar eater or not as long
as he is bowling well. please get this into your head that idli/sambar
has got nothing to do with the speed of bowling.
take it easy...
-ramesh
Umesh Dandekar
Take it easy... it's always easier to say that "so and so was a nut...
... and so and so did not deserve to be in the side" etc... but don't
you think that there are a lot of other factors contributing to
a bowler's success/failure? Some of them that come to my mind are
like the selectors, the captain, the team think-tank, and I guess
most importantly the Indian pitches and the quality of domestic cricket
in India. Although I do agree that a few exceptions like Kapil can come
out of all this everyone is not as talented as Kapil was (and some times
not as hard working too).
I am not trying to say that these bowlers were as good as Kapil but
they might have had their shre of bad luck?
Stay cool,
~umesh
[stuff deleted]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you don't understand my language you are using an obsoleted
compiler
Umesh Dandekar
o_u...@informix.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam C. Zhao
lot. He looked like carryind a heavy piece of weight in his legs ans
then bowls. Whenever I watched him I found that he was unable to run
beautifully. Moreover, he was not able to jump on his feet. Why he was
in the Indian side, nobody knows. One thing which striked my mind was
that when Bharat arun can not become a possible strike bowler for India
why he was given the chance to play and taking away the opportunity of
someone who might be a better prospect for coming period. I have
observed that many bowlers in Indian side has been taken just because
they were doing satisfactory job in Ranjhee Trophy while others who may
do good for the country by palying and maturing has been ignored. This
is true both for pacers as well as spinners. It reminds me of the moment
when Gopal Sharma was selected for the 2nd test against Pakistan, whlie
travelling from New Delhi, he said " do char wickets to le hee loon ga".
It clearly demonstrated that he was not having that great confidence and
people know that he was in Indian side as in and out kind of person.
Uttanpad
Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960418...@eesun1.tamu.edu>,
> Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi <jo...@ee.tamu.edu> writes:
> |>
> |> What are your expert comments on Srinath and Prabhakar?
> |>
>
> One of Them sambar /idli eater
You havent "evaluated these two which was what I was expecting.
SO Srinath eats idli/sambhar. But Srinath is miles faster than Prabhakar
ever was.
Prabhakar seems to be reduced to a spinner in disguise.
>
>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sanjay S.Joshi 401, Stasney Street, 510
Graduate Student College Station
Dept. of Electrical Engineering TX 77840
Texas A&M University Tel: (409)-846-8671
College Station email: jo...@eesun1.tamu.edu
TX 77840 http://ee.tamu.edu/~joshi/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravi Krishna
Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
to someone who can complete this:-
1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil hasn't done that even once. He too had a
major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
mention.
3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
eating people can't be fast bowlers.
4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
5. Sanjeev Sharma - First rate idiot. I never saw him swing even an inch.
6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
Sharma.
7. Salil Ankola - YUK. I am surprised that there are supporters for ankola
even today. (West ??). Should have retired by now.
8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
9. Saurab Ganguly - How can a Bengali be a fast bowler.
10. Banerjee - Chatterjee,Banerjee NO ENERGY.
11. Bhupinder Singh Sr - ??????????????????????/
12. Prasad - USELESS.
13. Vaidya - Latest addition to this list. I believe he can easily
Jairaj, Vinod
You forgot to include Rajinder Singh Ghai in your list. When the
opposing team needed to score some 12 per over off the last 5 or 6 overs,
RSG always used to oblige them. He was the one who made Steve Waugh (in
1986, when Waugh scored 81 in a ODI, RSG was literally raped) Of course,
the Aussie umpires too were responsible, but that's another story. I
remember another ODI in Bangalore against England. The match was heading
towards a thrilling finish, with Allan Lamb and Edmonds (?) at the crease.
Out comes our man to bowl, and before U can say Rajinder singh Ghai, the
match is over- Lamb murders him for a couple of 6s and 4s....
Another idiot bowler was R.P.Singh- he couldn't bowl for nuts.
Later,
Vinod
Arun
I think you must be working with software development. If that is your
business, then shut up and do it. Don't comment on others as if you
know everything about cricket.
Arun
Dilip Soman
While you're at it, might as well also add Kapil Dev, Binny, Madan and Sandhu
to the list :-)
In article <4l3td1$6...@news.informix.com>,
Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> wrote:
>
>Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
>are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
>
>I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
>to someone who can complete this:-
>
>1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
>problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
>bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
>Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
Not. Sekhar was actually pretty good and had a very sharp, fast incutter. Also,
the lack of fitness started happning in his later years (which was when he got
picked to play for India - unfortunately that's what happens to most pace
bowlers in India, they have good careers playing domestics and have to prove
a point so hard that by the time they do get picked, they're over the hill)
Also, the sambar / idli connection seems pretty tenuous, if not downright
provocative.
>
>2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
>Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
>it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil has done that even once. He too had a
>major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
>never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
>mention.
True. By no standards can he qualify as an "idiot" fast bowler - even if you
reread your own paragraph.
>
>3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
>first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
>eating people can't be fast bowlers.
>
This is correct. He did have a fair debut performance (slipping on the first
ball and all), but was quite a diaster.
>4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
>only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
>left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
>use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
>
Raju Kulkarni: the Ankola of his age. Good pace bowler, moved the ball both
ways, fast. Came into the reckoning along with Chetan Sharma when Wes Hall
and Clive Lloyd spoke of them during the WI tour to India. India could fit
in one bowler into the team and Chetan got the spot due to a number of
circusmtances (not in the order): (a) Kapil as a godfather (b) Got a wicket in
the ODI he played alongside Kulkarni - Guwahati while Kulkarni went wicketless
(c) Quota. In that game, it wasn't clear that Chetan bowled significantly
better than Kulkarni. And Kirmani made a bad captaincy mistake by taking them
both off soon after the first wicket fell. Kulkarni bowled well in the ODI's
and teh tests he did get a chance to play in.
Again, the varan bhat connection seems mischevious.
>5. Sanjeev Sharma - First rate idiot. I never saw him swing even an inch.
>
>6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
>Sharma.
>
>7. Salil Ankola - YUK. I am surprised that there are supporters for ankola
>even today. (West ??). Should have retired by now.
>
:-)
>8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
>
>9. Saurab Ganguly - How can a Bengali be a fast bowler.
>
>10. Banerjee - Chatterjee,Banerjee NO ENERGY.
...but a terrific slog batsman. Clean hitter.
>
>11. Prasad - USELESS.
>
>12. Vaidya - Latest addition to this list. I believe he can easily
>walk into indian women team. No speed , no bounce. Two years back in an
>article in SUNDAY , Ravi Shastri mentioned that Vaiyda is the only bowler who
>can swing both ways and is India's best bowler. Now either Vidya must have
Regional bias...hmm, unlikely. He did bowl fast and have pace. But that was 2
years ago. Like Sekhar, he's been given a chance when he's over the hill.
>paid him to say such things or it is regional bias which made Shastri glorify
>Vaidya. Shastri should realise that he should not unnecssarily play with
>emotions of Indian cricket fans who are still waiting for the day when India
>will get a good fast bowler.
Watch for Ankola, Kuruvilla and Mhambrey on the tour of England :-)
Cheers
Dilip
Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi
What are your expert comments on Srinath and Prabhakar?
On 17 Apr 1996, Ravi Krishna wrote:
>
> Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
> are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
>
> I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
> to someone who can complete this:-
>
> 1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
> problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
> bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
> Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
>
> 2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
> Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
> it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil has done that even once. He too had a
> major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
> never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
> mention.
>
> 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
> first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
> eating people can't be fast bowlers.
>
> 4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
> only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
> left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
> use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
>
> 5. Sanjeev Sharma - First rate idiot. I never saw him swing even an inch.
>
> 6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
> Sharma.
>
> 7. Salil Ankola - YUK. I am surprised that there are supporters for ankola
> even today. (West ??). Should have retired by now.
>
> 8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
>
> 9. Saurab Ganguly - How can a Bengali be a fast bowler.
>
> 10. Banerjee - Chatterjee,Banerjee NO ENERGY.
>
> 11. Prasad - USELESS.
>
> 12. Vaidya - Latest addition to this list. I believe he can easily
> walk into indian women team. No speed , no bounce. Two years back in an
> article in SUNDAY , Ravi Shastri mentioned that Vaiyda is the only bowler who
> can swing both ways and is India's best bowler. Now either Vidya must have
> paid him to say such things or it is regional bias which made Shastri glorify
> Vaidya. Shastri should realise that he should not unnecssarily play with
> emotions of Indian cricket fans who are still waiting for the day when India
> will get a good fast bowler.
>
>
\
Venkatesh Jagadeeshwara
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960418...@eesun1.tamu.edu>,
Sanjay Sudhakar Joshi <jo...@ee.tamu.edu> writes:
|>
|>
One of Them sambar /idli eater
|>
Ravi Prasad
We forgot another Anglo Indian Roger Binny...( How good was he in Indian pitches )
Venkatesh Sridharan
: Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
: are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
: I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
: to someone who can complete this:-
: 1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
: problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
: bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
: Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
-------
Sometime in 1991, Lillee said that he was amazed that "a country that
was supposedly looking for pacemen" did not play Shekar in the test team
regularly. He reckoned, for whatever it was worth, that Shekar was good
enough for the Indian team *then* (many years after his retirement).
I suppose your "sambar/idli" theory is stronger than his statements.
By the way, if you are going to use local Indian terms in an international
forum like this one, a translation may be in order. Most people are
going to be wondering what the heck a "sambar" is!
Amitabha Lahiri
(pds...@gsbphd.uchicago.edu) wrote:
> In article <4l3td1$6...@news.informix.com>,
> Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> wrote:
> >10. Banerjee - Chatterjee,Banerjee NO ENERGY.
> ...but a terrific slog batsman. Clean hitter.
Not to mention the best career Test average and strike rate of all Indians
with more than one Test wicket to their name. 15.67 was it? :-)
Amitabha
--
Amitabha Lahiri MAPS University of Sussex A.La...@central.susx.ac.uk
No one else is responsible for what I say and vice versa.
Today it's the Bengalis, tomorrow it will be you.
Gentleman
Apart from 1. Srinath and 2. Kumble, India has no good world
class bowlers. We have seen Raju and Prasad bowl wide balls and
get hit all over the field by Pakistanis and South Africans.
Look, you can produce good bowlers whether you feed them Idli
Sambar, Dal-Chawal or Lassi-Parathas!
So I don't want to get into a Kapil/Madanlal Vs. Srinath/Prasad
battle here. What we need to figure out is how the heck to
produce good world class bowlers with the killer instincts
of Waqar Younis, Imran Khan or Kapil Dev?
Leave aside the regionalism guys and lets play ball! :-)
Gentleman.
Rahul Shiyekar
- Rahul
Ramesh Rajaduray
>In article <4l5ph4$d...@news.informix.com>, rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
>T.A. Sekar was unfortunate. He lacked fitness and from what I have heard from the
>cricketing circles of Madras didn't shut up his mouth and fell victim.
>|> 2. Chetan Sharma - Was easily the best after Kapil for quite some time. Only
>|> Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
>|> it in 1986 Headingly test. Kapil hasn't done that even once. He too had a
>|> major back problem in 1986 ( missed that season). After he came back he was
>|> never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
>|> mention.
> "Sidhu" of Indian bowling. If he bowls a yorker he gets backache. A bouncer.
>bounces him for next two tests on fitness grounds.
>|> 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
>|> first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
>|> eating people can't be fast bowlers.
> Bharat Arun was in Indian team for other than cricketing considerations and the
>fact that he captained the junior team. Nothing to do with his eating habits.
>|> 4. Raju Kulkarni - Supposedly a fine bowler. ( it's a different matter that
>|> only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
>|> left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
>|> use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
> Iam convinced that you haven't seen Raju Kulkarni. Iam from the deepest south in
>India. He was definitely a good bowler. He was out of the team on "Quota system".
>If he had got as many chances as Chetan S, then we would have seen something else.
>FYI Kulkarni was rated highly by Clive Lloyd and others at that time.
>|> 6. Atul Wassan - Anybody remember this unmitigated ass. Another Sanjeev
>|> 8. Vivek Razdan - What happened to him. I think it's a good riddance.
> Vivek Razdan met the same fate as Kulkarni. He bowled well in the only test
>he played and was fairly lively. As Mohinder and Sunny said "selectors are a bunch of
>jokers".
> Wassan, Razdan, Yograj Singh ,Sekar were lively. Sekar in fact was fastest at
>that time.
> Other names that we miss out who were unlucky to come into national consideration
>are Pandurang Salgoankar and Barun Burman
> Another point to remember is that lots of these pace ( I don't want to use the term
>fast) bowlers bag wickets in bags in local matches, but fail on wickets abroad .
>Reason. Not using their brain. To their defence, one shouldnt' expect a debutant to
>do wonders with so much of anxiety and tension. Try him out in a full series and then
>judge them. Sadly all of them get thrown out within one test or two.
> Whereas real jokers like Suru Nayak (though as an allrounder) were lucky to even board
>the plane to England.
>kaleeswaran
>gkalee...@vnet.ibm.com Disclaimer: Views are mine only
Excuse me, but what's all this "sambar/idli" bullshit. I enjoy both sambar
and idli, and I can tell you that I know a lot of sambar/idli people who
are extremely strong and hardy.
I am not sure how important diet is to a fast bowler, but I can
tell you this: The reason that there are not many good Indian fast bowlers
is because the climate and conditions of pitches in the sub-continent are
not conducive to fast-bowling. Thus young quicks are not encouraged to
continue on, and become spinners or shitty medium-pacers.
Shariq Ahmed Tariq
> Ravi Krishna (rkri...@informix.com) wrote:
>
> : 3. Bharat Arun - Another Sambar idli bowler. I can't imagine him in any
> : first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
> : eating people can't be fast bowlers.
>
>
> what crap are you talking? srinath is also idli/sambar eating guy and
> he is the fastest bowler. faster than all non-idli/sambar eating
> bowlers like prabhakar, kapil, bupinder singh (heh heh heh), vaidya....
> and the list goes on. please don't come up with stupid baseless conclusions.
> btw, i don't care whether the bowler is idli/sambar eater or not as long
> as he is bowling well. please get this into your head that idli/sambar
> has got nothing to do with the speed of bowling.
>
> take it easy...
> -ramesh
>
>
Yeah this stuff about idli/sambar eaters not being strong
enough or fast enought is utter baloney. It's a stereotype
started up by the illiterate wrestlers and their illiterate
trainers in the subcontinent. Speed and strength is determined
by how hard you train your body with the principles of
progressive overload, and the amount of fast twitch fibre
in your muscle tissue.
Shariq
ravi4...@gmail.com
> I think you are a jerk because U blame our indian player and i think u are not indian fucking ass hole
bhaskark...@gmail.com
RH156RH
> Sometime back I mentioned that list of so called fast bowlers from India who
> are absolute idiots by international standards is growing at a steady pace.
>
> I have compiled a list which I am sure is not complete. I will be thankful
> to someone who can complete this:-
>
> 1. T A Shekar - Use to generate good pace. Had good bounce also but had a
> problem with his back. He use to get stiff back after bowling 6-7 overs. So
> bad his condition becomes that he can't even bend to pick up the ball.
> Liablity as a fielder. Probably something to do with Sambar / idli.
>
> Indian fast bowler in recent times to take 10 wkts on a away series. He did
> never the same bowler. Overall his career was too short lived to deserve any
> mention.
>
> first class side , let alone a test side. Convinced me that sambar / idli
> eating people can't be fast bowlers.
>
> only people from west find him a good bowler). Whatever I saw of him in 1987
> left me in no doubt that he is useless. Can't swing. Does not know how to
> use the old ball. Something to do with varan bath ( dal chawal).
>
>
>
> 7. Salil Ankola - YUK. I am surprised that there are supporters for ankola
> even today. (West ??). Should have retired by now.
>
>
>
>
>
> 12. Vaidya - Latest addition to this list. I believe he can easily
> walk into indian women team. No speed , no bounce. Two years back in an
> article in SUNDAY , Ravi Shastri mentioned that Vaiyda is the only bowler who
> can swing both ways and is India's best bowler. Now either Vidya must have
> paid him to say such things or it is regional bias which made Shastri glorify
> Vaidya. Shastri should realise that he should not unnecssarily play with
> emotions of Indian cricket fans who are still waiting for the day when India
> will get a good fast bowler.
Roy Desai... RH
amit.chat...@gmail.com
Chetan took 10 wickets in the lord's test of 1986 series in England and not headinglay test , he further took 6 wickets in the 3rd test at edebagston ,which india could not win , he did not play the 2nd test at headinglay , madan lal did , infact kapil didn't play manoj prabhakar who was in the team but played madan lal who was not in the team but was playing league cricket in England ...so much for camaradrie ...