Who was Test cricket's first express (90mph) pace bowler?
Nirvanam
Larwood was super fast for his time...his speed was relative that he
would not have been a consistent 90mph. Some argue he was more of a
135kph bowler which was way too fast for that era. I dunno the truth
value of this. But who would you think is Test cricket's first ever
express pacer as in consistently hitting 90 mph?
Tyson? or Hall?
WIPQ had all of them bowling over 85 but apart from Marshall, Clarke,
and Roberts were the rest over 90mph?
Would the 90s be the paciest decade for cricket or would it be the
80's? Include 85+ also coz 90+ are truly rare
John Hall
<cbc3d09e-18ba-4801...@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Nirvanam <viz.s...@gmail.com> writes:
>Recently I have come across many articles that claim that although
>Larwood was super fast for his time...his speed was relative that he
>would not have been a consistent 90mph. Some argue he was more of a
>135kph bowler which was way too fast for that era. I dunno the truth
>value of this. But who would you think is Test cricket's first ever
>express pacer as in consistently hitting 90 mph?
I don't think we have enough reliable data before the advent of the
speed gun to be sure (and doubts have even been expressed about whether
all speed guns have been calibrated correctly, when bowlers in a
particular match have all seemed to be faster or slower than expected).
In the 1930s there was an Australian called Eddie Gilbert who is
supposed to have been exceptionally fast, but he didn't play Test
cricket. Depending on what you read, this was either because there were
doubts about the legality of his action or because of racial prejudice
(he was an Aborigine).
Around the same time, Mohammed Nissar is supposed to have been very
quick, and so was the West Indian Martindale.
Just after WW1 there were the Australians Gregory and Macdonald.
In the 1890s England had Tom Richardson. Kortright and Knox were also
supposed to be very quick, but I don't think that either played Test
cricket.
--
John Hall
"I don't even butter my bread; I consider that cooking."
Katherine Cebrian
higgs
> In article
> <cbc3d09e-18ba-4801-91d8-cf0bc4476...@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
I think Jeff Thomson was supposed to have been clocked at around 90mph
by a rudimentary form of measurement.
Of course, this can be questioned by the accuracy of the measurement,
but that's not to say it wasn't correct.
Could even have been faster
Higgs
Don speaks the truth
Answer is Malcolm Marshall.
Don
Michael Banner
> Recently I have come across many articles that claim that although
> Larwood was super fast for his time...his speed was relative that he
> would not have been a consistent 90mph. Some argue he was more of a
> 135kph bowler which was way too fast for that era.
<snip>
I can't see any reason why 140 - 150km/h paces haven't been bowled
around the world for the last 120 years. It doesn't require special
nutrition, training or whatever. Self taught, strong guys I know who
don't play much serious competitive cricket have been clocked at 130km/
h.
higgs
I'd agree there.
It's probably simply that the bowlers of the past were never tested.
Thommo, the only time he was tested, came in at 90mph.
What if he was having a bad day?
His regular speed may have been well in excess of that
Higgs
Bob Dubery
> I can't see any reason why 140 - 150km/h paces haven't been bowled
> around the world for the last 120 years. It doesn't require special
> nutrition, training or whatever. Self taught, strong guys I know who
> don't play much serious competitive cricket have been clocked at 130km/
> h.
Well yes. I heard Bob Woolmer say that the ability to bowl at express
pace is not one that can be taught - you either have it or you don't.
And he said it's nothing to do with strength but all to do with
flexibility.
I can't see why that kind of pace shouldn't have been reached in, for
example, Grace's time.
tendulkar.com
> On Jun 1, 10:52 am, Michael Banner <mpban...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I can't see any reason why 140 - 150km/h paces haven't been bowled
> > around the world for the last 120 years. It doesn't require special
> > nutrition, training or whatever. Self taught, strong guys I know who
> > don't play much serious competitive cricket have been clocked at 130km/
> > h.
>
> Well yes. I heard Bob Woolmer say that the ability to bowl at express
> pace is not one that can be taught - you either have it or you don't.
Does Bob Woolmer have enough data or science or heuristics to back
this up? or is just one of those statements that is made up and thrown
around, and idiots lap it up because it came from a 'cricketer'?
Mad Hamish
wrote:
Thommo was recorded at 99.7 mph iirc.
cricd...@hotmail.com
<newsunspammel...@iinet.unspamme.net.au> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 02:52:40 -0700 (PDT), higgs <kenhig...@hotmail.com>
Yes. See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjkBNxKZOE8
See also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPDW7hj1yfs
for slower bowling speeds, but still
above 90 mph.
(For Roshan: This is not just the opinion
of someone handicapped by having played
international cricket -- something that
doesn't weigh you down -- but the analysis
of people with "Dr." in front of their
names, photographed in front of all manner
of computer equipment, and in one case
what appears to be an oxygen tank. If
that's not idiotproof, I don't know
what is.)
Nirvanam
None of these were even faster than 89...there were only 2 of them
above 140 kph...but they mentioned it was a very hot day...I think it
would've been some settings in the measuring device that was
unnaturally showing lower numbers.
I heard Rodney Hogg was as quick as they get. The fastest I have seen
have been Shoaib, Wasim, Lee, and there was this Saffer who was not as
quick as Donald but pretty quick...a couple of his balls when I saw
him bowl in 91 in the 3 ODIs against India went zup zup...Richard
Snell...classic pace bowlers action he had
Bob Dubery
> I heard Rodney Hogg was as quick as they get. The fastest I have seen
> have been Shoaib, Wasim, Lee, and there was this Saffer who was not as
> quick as Donald but pretty quick...a couple of his balls when I saw
> him bowl in 91 in the 3 ODIs against India went zup zup...Richard
> Snell...classic pace bowlers action he had
I don't recall Snell being in the Donald bracket of pace. He was
quickish, but not express. His main weapons were a late outswinger and
very good yorker. Useful batsman as well. In fact he'd been a batsman
at school and in university and then got discovered as a quick
bowler.
Bob Dubery
> Does Bob Woolmer have enough data or science or heuristics to back
> this up? or is just one of those statements that is made up and thrown
> around, and idiots lap it up because it came from a 'cricketer'?
Well he did do a lot of coaching, including at international level. He
worked a lot with Donald.
Nirvanam
The bugger was probably a handsome chap too....I am figuring that out
coz the girls in my class would go all ooooo aaaa about Snell when SA
came back to the fold
Don speaks the truth
>
> - Show quoted text -
For a second i thought you were talking about Brett Schultz..
Don
Nirvanam
wrote:
Shultz was a leftie, no? I remember that chap too. I think the Saffer
bowlers when they just came back were really good solid unit...Craig
McMillan, remember him? Meyrick Pringle...he bowled one amazing over
to Neil Fairbrother during the semi final...Fairbrother was trying
every damn trick in the book but Pringle was beating him...4 balls
into the over I think, my dad was saying "he should respect the bowler
when he is bowling so well", fairbrother doesn't take the advice and
he is bowled next ball!
Nirvanam
Sorry it was Craig Mathews and Brian McMillan...mixed them both in one
name
prabhu
George John, the great West indian fast bowler of the 1920s.
cricd...@hotmail.com
Thomson's fastest was 147.9 kmph in the
tests in the second video, nearly 92 mph.
Nirvanam
Yep my bad, I should have said one instead of none... they mentioned
there were only 2 balls that were above 140..Thommo and one by Holding
at 141.2 or something like that.
Don speaks the truth
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah, Schultz was terrific in the 2 tests he played against Ind in
1991. He had
most batsmen in trouble even Sachin who was playing very well those
days.
But injury got him and he faded away in a couple of years.
Yeah, SA was a good unit those days with a passion and hunger for win.
Donald was at his best and supported by Schultz/De Villiers but their
main strength was their all rounders like Macmillan and Cronje(with
the ball),
Rhodes(fielding) and Richardson(batting wicketkeeper)....incidentally
also
remember that Macmillan(nicknamed cycle) was fond of Raju and he
nicknamed
him muscles....it was fun to watch the biggest and tiniest members of
opposing
teams together in the dressing room..
Don
alvey
> Recently I have come across many articles that claim that although
> Larwood was super fast for his time...his speed was relative that he
> would not have been a consistent 90mph. Some argue he was more of a
> 135kph bowler which was way too fast for that era. I dunno the truth
> value of this. But who would you think is Test cricket's first ever
> express pacer as in consistently hitting 90 mph?
Not only do you "dunno the truth value of [something prior to 1993]..." but
you resolutely fail to make any fucking attempt to discover it. Here's a
clue... Find the video of Larwood bowling in the Adelaide Bodyline Test.
The keeper's a longgg way back and taking the ball above his head *on the
up*. Ain't no 135km bowler I can recall ever doing that.
alvey
in Brx, grumping.
Nirvanam
Oh! ok