Dirty and rotten politics of Imran
Sohban Shahid
and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
at the trio: Javed Burki, Majid Khan and the great Imran
Khan. If anyone has listened to JB's comments on different
cricketers in PTV's commentary box one can easily judge him
a complete idiot. The magistic Majid was good and is
very much articulate but politics is too deep down into his
soul. He was the person, who first opposed to play under
Miandad and Imran was also in that camp. He projected himself
as a saint by saying that he has no problem playing under
Miandad but in fact he never missed a chance to blow at JM.
It was Imran who said before the WC that there is going to
be no gap if Miandad can not play and the punjabi toola has
literally dropped him. Shame to those suckers who are now
claiming themselves as the World champions which was completely
out of question with out JM. I hope the memories of the WC-92
semi final and final are still clear in hundreds of minds.
If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
IK. He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
in between. Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
against India in Karachi was also in his account. The behaviour of
Imran Khan was phenominal when he was playing under Asif Iqbal in
India. You will shortly hear Asif Mujtaba out of the list and many
of you know the reason?????
It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
world cup at the end of his career. No credit was given to any member
of the team including JM for his outstanding performance throughout the
WC, even Gavasker was gracious enough to give JM due credit. No
appraisal for the austrailian croud and many others who cheered for
Pakistan the whole day. Even the english men was generous enough who
thanked the OZ crowd who was more inclined towards Pakistan. Those were the
history making moments with Imran being ignorant and selfish. But the
Khan is so great that he feels no moral obligation and is above any
criticism. Those who understand HINDI or Urdu might have noticed what
Ramiz, Mushtaq and Inzamam were chanting at the closing ceremony. Many
netters have objection to frog jumping but look at the cheapness of these
ambassadors of Pakistan who were chanting for houses and plots infront of
millions for their performance.
There is a problem with the Pakistanis that they make their
bubble gods invincible and Imran is one of them. As long as he is
living we have to live with his rotten politics.
There is another big problem with the bureaucracy that they want
punjabs quota in every walk of life. No matter how badly a player
is playing but if he is a punjabi no person on earth can
kick him out of the team. We have seen Imran playing with one
leg for more than a year. The itching Salim Malik is from that
quota and we have to live with his elegant style. Look at the whole
lineup and you can easily find that punjabs quota is maintained
with great care and forced on us that cricket is not popular in other
parts of the country, whatta punjabi trio. Whenever JM or Zaheer was made
captain, punjab toola was working against them and by making Akram as
the captain of the side they have proved their mentality and showed
us how low they can go.
Believe it or not in many circles (other than punjabi) the sacking
of Miandad was expected. Punjab selection committee has made his
move, now we have to wait and see when they gonna lick their salaiva
from the floor.
--
eik pathan dou punjabi loot rahai hain Pakistan (before)
dou pathan eik punjabi loot raha hai Pakistan (now)
this is not mine, i heard it from some young boys in Pakistan
on my recent visit. It may hurt few but sound musical to me.
*********************************************************************
SOHBAN SHAHID
Civil Engg. Dept. (303) 491 7710/8204 (work)
Colorado State University (303) 224 0397 (home)
Ft. Collins, CO-80523
*********************************************************************
D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
>Believe it or not in many circles (other than punjabi) the sacking
>of Miandad was expected. Punjab selection committee has made his
>move, now we have to wait and see when they gonna lick their salaiva
>from the floor.
Relax my friend, for you are reading too much into the situation. If
what you say is true, JM would have never been mae the captain to
start with. FYI, JM and Imran are very good friends, even though their
fans are at each other's throat... In fact, there freinds are ready to
make it a Punjab-Sind or Lahore-Karachi civil war. :-)
Salman [with peace, I come] Azhar
--
When humans are given unalieanable rights like life, liberty, and the
pursuit in happiness, very often they interpret that as happiness of
pursuit which threatens the liberty of life in their surroundings.
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
LAHORI POOND
> With due appologies to all Imran lovers, he was/is dirty
> and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
> this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
> at the trio: Javed Burki, Majid Khan and the great Imran
> Khan. If anyone has listened to JB's comments on different
> cricketers in PTV's commentary box one can easily judge him
> a complete idiot. The magistic Majid was good and is
> very much articulate but politics is too deep down into his
> soul. He was the person, who first opposed to play under
> Miandad and Imran was also in that camp. He projected himself
so was half of the Pakistani team.Not wanting to drag back old stuff but isnt it ironic that what the senior members of the team were bitching at that time
against JM,now JM might do the same.
> as a saint by saying that he has no problem playing under
> Miandad but in fact he never missed a chance to blow at JM.
> It was Imran who said before the WC that there is going to
> be no gap if Miandad can not play and the punjabi toola has
Well i wonder what this Pathan has to do with keeping punjabis in the team?
You are not the first person who i have heard of talking about lahore karachi or whatever.But the thing is that this has been blown up way out of proportion.
I guess you dont know that It was Imran who insisted that Jm come to Australia
for the cup.
> literally dropped him. Shame to those suckers who are now
> claiming themselves as the World champions which was completely
> out of question with out JM. I hope the memories of the WC-92
> semi final and final are still clear in hundreds of minds.
>
> If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
> crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
> of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
> is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
> IK. He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
> slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
> second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
> in between. Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
> against India in Karachi was also in his account. The behaviour of
> Imran Khan was phenominal when he was playing under Asif Iqbal in
> India. You will shortly hear Asif Mujtaba out of the list and many
> of you know the reason?????
You might wana add to the list his cousin Majid Khan
> It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
> world cup at the end of his career. No credit was given to any member
> of the team including JM for his outstanding performance throughout the
> WC, even Gavasker was gracious enough to give JM due credit. No
> appraisal for the austrailian croud and many others who cheered for
> Pakistan the whole day. Even the english men was generous enough who
> thanked the OZ crowd who was more inclined towards Pakistan. Those were the
> history making moments with Imran being ignorant and selfish. But the
> Khan is so great that he feels no moral obligation and is above any
> criticism. Those who understand HINDI or Urdu might have noticed what
> Ramiz, Mushtaq and Inzamam were chanting at the closing ceremony. Many
> netters have objection to frog jumping but look at the cheapness of these
> ambassadors of Pakistan who were chanting for houses and plots infront of
> millions for their performance.
>
ooo man hang em hang em for that ..how dare they man u really love to raise
up this kind of crap dont u
> There is a problem with the Pakistanis that they make their
> bubble gods invincible and Imran is one of them. As long as he is
> living we have to live with his rotten politics.
> There is another big problem with the bureaucracy that they want
> punjabs quota in every walk of life. No matter how badly a player
> is playing but if he is a punjabi no person on earth can
> kick him out of the team. We have seen Imran playing with one
> leg for more than a year. The itching Salim Malik is from that
> quota and we have to live with his elegant style. Look at the whole
> lineup and you can easily find that punjabs quota is maintained
> with great care and forced on us that cricket is not popular in other
> parts of the country, whatta punjabi trio. Whenever JM or Zaheer was made
> captain, punjab toola was working against them and by making Akram as
> the captain of the side they have proved their mentality and showed
> us how low they can go.
>
> Believe it or not in many circles (other than punjabi) the sacking
> of Miandad was expected. Punjab selection committee has made his
> move, now we have to wait and see when they gonna lick their salaiva
> from the floor.
>
>
>
Before you start pointing the finger at every one who is either punjabi or a Pathan i think you should get your facts correct first. I guess you are alwaays gonna be opssessed with the word Quota.
later...
p.s after watching Majid khan play in a local match in lahore during the break
i think he can still make it into the Pakistani team,considering the way
they are playing these days. But ofcourse then the"Punjabi toola" might
come into play..
___
Lahori (LHL 111) Poond
Meer Nazir
Hi to all Javed fans who are like me, hurt by his removal from captaincy. I
think with four lines of news flash from BBC source is not enough for anyone
sitting in computer center @somehost.edu to jump to the conclusions and start
showing his hatred and outburst using this forum. Remeber as far as Javed is
concerned he like all other great cricketers enjoys respect and popularity
due to his performance not due to the reason that he was born in some.place.ethnic.minority.region . His performance not only in last World cup but throughout his career is no doubt a classic example. As I always put him as the best thing happen to Pakistan cricket.
Now as far as what type of politics is going on in BCCP only someone with more
info can come on the net and tell us what happend. I have asked SAN to give us
his opinion and I think we should wait for what is going on.
I also think its none of Imran's buissness to take interest in selection or anything at this time. It will be good if he can come after five year to take
administrative position as BCCP selection member or team Manager. Also I will
like to know the impressions of JM and his position on this issue.
Because I remember last time on his removal he said that he likes to play
cricket and he was always with Imran in combating against the politics. I know
Imran was captain but the guy who really nailed down politics in Pakistan
cricket after Asif Iqbal team is JM. Lets hope what ever is going on JM may not discourage and leave.
Meer [JM FAN] Nazir
Jawad Ali
Shamim, you forgot to add the I_cant_believe_I'm_responding_to_this
disclaimer :) The Punjabi/non_Punjabi debate is not worthy of any
further discussion. I'm interested in the honest gut reaction of
those who know the inner workings of Pakistan cricket.
My own gut reaction: Outrage!
>Get your facts straight.
>Fact 1: Imran and Majid Khan are Pathans not Punjabis.
To be fair to Sobhan, he was probably using a loose Punjabi/non-Punjabi
Lahore/Karachi distinction. Imran and Majid are very much a part of
the Lahore scene and are residents of Punjab, just as Zaheer is
persumably a resedent of Karachi. Beyond that there is not much value
in this analysis.
>Fact 2: Majid Khan until the appointment of Akram as captain was the
>Chairman of the selectors and it is he who made Miandad captain for
>the English tour.
Fact? Maybe. My sources (remember my trip to the Butcher of Berkeley?)
say that Majid Khan was appointed the chairman of the national selection
comittee AFTER the England tour -- October 29, to be exact.
Former test cricketers Salahuddin and Khalid Hasan were his deputies.
Other members of the selection committee were former Test cricketers
Shafiq Ahmad and Sikender Bakht, and Maazullah Khan.
>Fact 3: Burki has repeatedly praised Miandad in his comments. If you
>Fact 4: Before the WC, Imran gave a public statement in support of
>Fact 5: Just yesterday, Imran gave a statement saying that Akram was
I tend to discount such public statements. But, here are a few more,
for all they are worth.
Smalik: I never want to be the captain. [This may partialy explain
his getting passed over for the job, but remember this is the
fellow who cant make up his mind about how much he likes to
bat at #3]
Younis: Public disagreements with Imran [and his entourage:)] over
issues of domestic cricket. [In other words, no pet puppy of
Imran, remember the roumers about his exclusion from the WC]
>Fact 6: Imran and Majid have not spoken to each other for 15 years.
>Their breach occurred when Imran dropped Majid from the test team.
>They are cousins.
WOW! Proverbialy speaking? I remember seeing them both together
at my high school (Aitchison), but cannot honestly say that I remember
seeing them talk to each other.
PETTINESS! That was the first word that came to my mind when I heard
that Miandad was sacked (and not resting on his own accord). I am
not at all convinced that Imran and Co. have anything to do with
this shameful act, but somehow Fact #6 has brought that word back
into my consciousness.
>Fact 7: Majid resigned yesterday as selector.
So what does this mean?
He resigned because someone else sacked Miandad behind his back, and
he is righfully outraged. OR
He resigned because he sacked Miandad and then realized what a
ignoble/unpopular blunder it was. OR
He resigned because he righfully sacked Miandad, and because
people just dont appriciate a brilliant decision when they see one.
>Of course we all know that Imran ran the team totally. You have to
>take his biases and his prejudices, if he gets the results. How many
>will argue if Gooch wins in India without Gower? Of people will
>crucify him if he looses.
Much as I disagree with the Punjabi/non-Punjabi nonsense,
Sobhan's attitude towards this makes more sense. Give Imran
all the credit for all the wonderful things he has done, but
dont gloss over the prejudices and injustices. This applies
to all, including Miandad.
>Now what really did happen in the recent selection process?
I wish someone would tell us.
>You do not know. You have a theory that does not fit the facts.
You are right. Lets hear a more consistant theory.
>> It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
>Yes, Imran goofed on that one.
He even admits it. Although, it would not be entirely unfair to see
it as more than just a "goof up."
To be continued...
j n a
Sohban Shahid
netters of this ng. Salman, you are right this punjab-
sindh or lahore-karachi (more sounding) civil war has
started. JM's has made his point and mickey mouse (BCCP)
is trying to get away with it.
Lahori pond if half of the pakistani side has opposed
to play under Miandad b'cos of his age then why not
use the same argument this time. Do you want to change
rules and policies as they suit you the most? Well, if
the response is yes, its not too surprising b'cos this
is how the things work.
Shamim and Lahori pond, tell me one thing where is Mianwali?
Is it not in Punjab and I think Imran is basically from
that city. And Shamim you have said that non of trio's
are from Punjab as they have Khan attached at the end of
the their names but by adding Khan no one can become a
pathan by cast. I know that Dr Jahangir's family is
living in Punjab for quite a while and on that basis I
definitely will consider them from Punjab. But it would
be a surprise for me if they turns out to be Pathan.
Imran Khan Niazi ---pathan ...woo.
Shamim from here on I will try to make your facts more
clear.
(shamim, I'm not putting arguments for the sake
of arguments so please go through them)
Fact 1: By adding 'Khan' one can not become a Pathan.
I met Majid Khan and by no means he can speak
pashtoo, he has a beautiful punjabi accent.
Don't say that their forefather came from Afganistan.
Weak argument used by cast immitants alot.
Fact 2: After Imran, Miandad was the only choice and Majid
was in a fix position so he did it without his will.
Fact 3: Cricketers like Gooch, Gower, Gavaskar, Miandad are
born cricketers and if someone praise their elegance
then it shows no pinnacle knowledge but reading truth
of the wall. Please send me videos when JB commented
about Mohsin and shoaib in particular. Listening to
his comments make you feel that either he doesn't have
a clue of the game or he is a complete jerk.
Fact 4: Yes, Imran gave a public statement when water crossed
his head but at first he did say that there is going
to be no gap in the Pakistan side if Miandad is not fit.
Miandad was not playing upto his standards and his back
problem was also not keeping him hundred percent fit so
that was the perfect timming for kicking his *** and
selectors did exactly what they had in their mind for
ages. It was the local pressure and especially from
Karachi and Hyderabad when they started twisting the
whole issue and later they sent Miandad to Australia.
Check Salim Maliks record in Australia and you can convince
yourself easily that he is not the perfect choice over
there and Imran laid down his strategy according to it.
Shamim if Imran has praised Miandad heaven high then it is
not unusual b'cos its a well known fact which needs no
confirmation from Imran or anyone. Denying hight of mount
Everest is something that can make me a fool in day light.
Fact 5: Yes any xyz can become a best choice but not before Miandad
and that is the whole issue. It is a great insult to
Miandad that he lost his captaincy b'cos of others dislike
twice in his career.
Honestly and frankly tell me is this not a naked injustice
to a person who does not fit into the minds of his worldly
gods? Just tell me one good reason why he was sacked? If the
score of 70 and 80 is his fault then what about senior
players like Ramiz and Salim Malik. Selection committee
should have to kick them out the team. But no, those son
of the soil will remain there as before and the misfit has
paid the penalty. You can not put blame of everything on
one single person but rules differ in Pakistan from person
to person. And you will notice that this time no player
will make hue and cry for Miandad or even show his
sympathies for him. This is how things really work in
Pakistan.
Fact 6: Imran and Majid may hate each other but their goals and
objectives are more or less the same. Majid was a Khalifa
and Imran is miles ahead of him.
Fact 7: Majid resigned yesterday....whatta joke. Sarai chohai kha
ker billi gahar ko chali.
Shamim about Zaheer and Majid I will only say that when Zaheer got
fired he was in form but when Majid was fired he was off color. The
sacking and firing of circketers during Imrans period was very much
an ego problem and you will not deny this. Your pros point is well
accepted but we really have to show some kind of a descency in
public if not on individual basis. BTW, JM's punjab's wife won't
help him out as this ethnic-virus is far far out of control. Raza
Syed has written in his post that rumors are that the sacking is
political and Javed has already showed his discomfort on it so what
else you want him to do...bang someone like Imran or BCCP. You may
not agree with me but the selection committee has made a blunder
and they gonna repent it soon. Public has seen both the england
and OZ series. As a neutral observer you tell me how come the
captain is sacked for winning two test series and losing badly one
tournament. To be fair enough you should raise voice to kick Ramiz
and Salim Malik out of the team as they didn't full fill their
responsibilities.
No one change the situation if someone has hurt the feeling of
Miandad but an honest person must say that this is total injustice
to him and should stand right by his side. It doesn't really
matter that he play for Pakistan or not but it does matter to lot
of cricket lover who still wants to see his game. And I will say
that under these circumstances he should not play and see Pakistan
defeating badly in WI and SA which is quite evident at present.
You are a great supporter of Salim Malik but I will say loud that even
if you have four Salim Malik in your side you can never win in
Australia and New Zealand. He is only for Pakistan and England.
--
Moment that you have now is worth having ...
Moments that'll come after are worth knowing !
Mr. Raza Syed
A nice reply to an outburst from MR. Shoban Shahid. But i would like to add
my 2 cents to it.
|>
|> Get your facts straight.
|> Fact 1: Imran and Majid Khan are Pathans not Punjabis.
Not so sure about MK but IK calls himself as half Punjabi & half Pathan but
speaks punjabi.
|>
|> Fact 2: Majid Khan until the appointment of Akram as captain was the
|> Chairman of the selectors and it is he who made Miandad captain for
|> the English tour.
|>
|> Fact 3: Burki has repeatedly praised Miandad in his comments. If you
|> find him idiotic then we should dismiss his praise for Miandad.
|> Would you like me to send you videos of matches in which Burki praises
|> Miandad to high heaven?
I dont agree with that, he never praises him, and some way or the other always
critisize(sp?) even his best shot or his gem inings. There was so much contrast in
his comments about other players and JM that every one noticed it. The peak was
reached after JM historical six at sharjah, while whole world was praising JM
but there comes J. Burki on the TV next day and start critisizing JM. On that he came
under lot of fire from all circles, and i noticed a marked change in his coments
about JM afterwards.
note: You can check newspapers from 18th aprill 1986 onward.
|>
|> Fact 4: Before the WC, Imran gave a public statement in support of
|> Miandad in order to squash persistent rumours and claims that Miandad
|> be dropped. (Remember: Miandad had been injured off and on and really
|> had not made any runs for quite soem time.) He said something to the
|> effect that Miandad is the only world class bat produced by Pakistan
|> in the last umpteen years and a world cup side without him is
|> incomplete. Notice that Imran sidelined Salim Malik in the WC, another
|> Punjabi, and played Miandad despite injury and opposition.
|>
|> Fact 5: Just yesterday, Imran gave a statement saying that Akram was
|> the best choice for captain after Miandad.
Good diplomatic statement from him!!!
|>
|> Fact 6: Imran and Majid have not spoken to each other for 15 years.
|> Their breach occurred when Imran dropped Majid from the test team.
|> They are cousins.
15 years ?? is bit too much, provided that this is true and not exaggerated.
They must have hold meetings while planning and performing the revolt for removal
of JM from captaincy in early 1982 (there common goal!!!)
|>
|> Fact 7: Majid resigned yesterday as selector.
|>
Hmmmm interesting!! lets see what happens next.
|>
|> A captain has a right to choose a side that he feels can do the job.
|> Look at Gooch. He has dropped Gower. If Imran dropped Zaheer, you also
|> must consider that he dropped his own cousin Majid. Shoaib got more
|> chances to play under Imran than he got under Miandad, a Karachite!
|> Remember: Miandad did not play Shoiab in four tests in England and did
|> not bring him along to the WSC and NZ.
|>
|> Of course we all know that Imran ran the team totally. You have to
|> take his biases and his prejudices, if he gets the results. How many
Good to read that you wrote that 1). He ran the team totally.
2). He has his biases and prejudices.
|> will argue if Gooch wins in India without Gower? Of people will
|> crucify him if he looses.
I think its not a positive thing to forget all mistakes/biases/prejudices
if some one get success, or crucify him despite all his contribution if
he is not successful due to some of his mistakes/biases/prejudices.
|>
|> Now what really did happen in the recent selection process?
|> You do not know. You have a theory that does not fit the facts.
|>
|>
|> Yes, Imran goofed on that one. But why do you say "even Gavaskar gave
|> credit to JM." Are your own biases coming through again? As a matter
|> of fact Gavaskar has always praised JM and Imran openly.
|>
|> > criticism. Those who understand HINDI or Urdu might have noticed what
|> > Ramiz, Mushtaq and Inzamam were chanting at the closing ceremony. Many
|> > netters have objection to frog jumping but look at the cheapness of these
|> > ambassadors of Pakistan who were chanting for houses and plots infront of
|> > millions for their performance.
|> >
|>
|> There was a time when cricket was played by amateurs. Now, cricket is
|> played by pros and they play it for money. Expecting a bounty for
|> winning the WC is quite expected. What's the problem? What are "these
|> ambassadors" supposed to live on?
|>
|>
|> Again you show your ignorance of facts. The trio you refer to (Imran,
|> Majid and Burki) is not Punjabi, it is Pathan. Also you ought to know
|> that Zaheer is a Punjabi from Sialkot. Perhaps you also do not know
|> that Miandad's wife is a Punjabi from Lahore.
Thats the only thing Zaheer did in sailkot!!! and those who has biases and
prejudices are not very much impressed by the fact that Zaheer is born and
Miandad is Married in punjab, all they care about is that they are from Karachi.
And neither is it matter for people who did'nt have biases that who is born where
and speaks what language? all they care about is the person himself, whether he is
good? and whether he performs well or not?
|>
|>
|> Selections by their very nature are subject to disagreements because
|> they are judgements. JM has a point: seldom has a captain been removed
|> by failing to win one tournament. But look at the manner in which they
|> lost! Being bowled out for 70s and 80s. They barely got the test match
|> because of W&W. Also, if you are from Pakistan, you would know that
|> the WC win has raised the expectations of the public to an unrealistic
|> level and JM is seeing that wrath.
by this anology Pakistan barely able to win the bangalore test only b/c of
Iqbal qasim and Tauseef Ahmed. About WSC loss, no doubt that they perform
mediocrely in 2-3 matches, but pakistan has always being preforming mediocrely
in WSC there best preformance in WSC was in 1981-82. And if you look at pakistan
succesful (away) serieses in the past decade except from India 1987, they always lost one
day serieses, most of the time very easily, and very havily!!!
|>
|> It is undeniable that the last 10 years have seen Pakistani cricket at
|> its most successful. If the "trio" is responsible for destroying
|> people's careers then it is also responsbile for the sucesses. Let's
|> give them credit. Why care about their ethnic background?
Only Imran Khan among these three has contribution in pakistan's success in the
past decade. Javed Burki and Majid khan has nothing to do with it, never i remember
that they had taken some imaginative steps be it selection or be it groming and bringing
out good youngsters. If any one from administration has contribution in Pakistan's success
it is Haseeb Ahsan, who was solely resposible for bringing Khan Mohd for training and
arranging summer camp for yougsters, Waseem Akram is one example of the products of that
summer camp. It was in his tenure in BCCP that for the first time he makes sure that
if you give good performance in domestic season you will get a chance.
|>
|> Should the selectors do something now? Debatable. Normally one does
|> not appoint a new captain for a foreign tour. And an arduous one for
|> Pak play the WI. But then there is the argument of baptismal by fire!
|>
|> \shamim
One important thing regarding this situation is how Waseem Akram has reacted
to this decision? a lot will depend upon him.
--
S.R.Raza.
ra...@surya.engrg.uwo.ca
Shamim Naqvi
> and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
> this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
> at the trio: Javed Burki, Majid Khan and the great Imran
> Khan. If anyone has listened to JB's comments on different
> cricketers in PTV's commentary box one can easily judge him
> a complete idiot. The magistic Majid was good and is
> very much articulate but politics is too deep down into his
> soul. He was the person, who first opposed to play under
> Miandad and Imran was also in that camp. He projected himself
> as a saint by saying that he has no problem playing under
> Miandad but in fact he never missed a chance to blow at JM.
> It was Imran who said before the WC that there is going to
> be no gap if Miandad can not play and the punjabi toola has
> literally dropped him.
Get your facts straight.
Fact 1: Imran and Majid Khan are Pathans not Punjabis.
Fact 2: Majid Khan until the appointment of Akram as captain was the
Chairman of the selectors and it is he who made Miandad captain for
the English tour.
Fact 3: Burki has repeatedly praised Miandad in his comments. If you
find him idiotic then we should dismiss his praise for Miandad.
Would you like me to send you videos of matches in which Burki praises
Miandad to high heaven?
Fact 4: Before the WC, Imran gave a public statement in support of
Miandad in order to squash persistent rumours and claims that Miandad
be dropped. (Remember: Miandad had been injured off and on and really
had not made any runs for quite soem time.) He said something to the
effect that Miandad is the only world class bat produced by Pakistan
in the last umpteen years and a world cup side without him is
incomplete. Notice that Imran sidelined Salim Malik in the WC, another
Punjabi, and played Miandad despite injury and opposition.
Fact 5: Just yesterday, Imran gave a statement saying that Akram was
the best choice for captain after Miandad.
Fact 6: Imran and Majid have not spoken to each other for 15 years.
Their breach occurred when Imran dropped Majid from the test team.
They are cousins.
Fact 7: Majid resigned yesterday as selector.
> If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
> crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
> of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
> is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
> IK. He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
> slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
> second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
> in between. Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
> against India in Karachi was also in his account.
A captain has a right to choose a side that he feels can do the job.
Look at Gooch. He has dropped Gower. If Imran dropped Zaheer, you also
must consider that he dropped his own cousin Majid. Shoaib got more
chances to play under Imran than he got under Miandad, a Karachite!
Remember: Miandad did not play Shoiab in four tests in England and did
not bring him along to the WSC and NZ.
Of course we all know that Imran ran the team totally. You have to
take his biases and his prejudices, if he gets the results. How many
will argue if Gooch wins in India without Gower? Of people will
crucify him if he looses.
Now what really did happen in the recent selection process?
You do not know. You have a theory that does not fit the facts.
> It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
> world cup at the end of his career. No credit was given to any member
> of the team including JM for his outstanding performance throughout the
> WC, even Gavasker was gracious enough to give JM due credit.
Yes, Imran goofed on that one. But why do you say "even Gavaskar gave
credit to JM." Are your own biases coming through again? As a matter
of fact Gavaskar has always praised JM and Imran openly.
> criticism. Those who understand HINDI or Urdu might have noticed what
> Ramiz, Mushtaq and Inzamam were chanting at the closing ceremony. Many
> netters have objection to frog jumping but look at the cheapness of these
> ambassadors of Pakistan who were chanting for houses and plots infront of
> millions for their performance.
>
There was a time when cricket was played by amateurs. Now, cricket is
played by pros and they play it for money. Expecting a bounty for
winning the WC is quite expected. What's the problem? What are "these
ambassadors" supposed to live on?
> whatta punjabi trio. Whenever JM or Zaheer was made
> captain, punjab toola was working against them
Again you show your ignorance of facts. The trio you refer to (Imran,
Majid and Burki) is not Punjabi, it is Pathan. Also you ought to know
that Zaheer is a Punjabi from Sialkot. Perhaps you also do not know
that Miandad's wife is a Punjabi from Lahore.
> Believe it or not in many circles (other than punjabi) the sacking
> of Miandad was expected. Punjab selection committee has made his
> move, now we have to wait and see when they gonna lick their salaiva
> from the floor.
Selections by their very nature are subject to disagreements because
they are judgements. JM has a point: seldom has a captain been removed
by failing to win one tournament. But look at the manner in which they
lost! Being bowled out for 70s and 80s. They barely got the test match
because of W&W. Also, if you are from Pakistan, you would know that
the WC win has raised the expectations of the public to an unrealistic
level and JM is seeing that wrath.
It is undeniable that the last 10 years have seen Pakistani cricket at
its most successful. If the "trio" is responsible for destroying
people's careers then it is also responsbile for the sucesses. Let's
give them credit. Why care about their ethnic background?
Should the selectors do something now? Debatable. Normally one does
LAHORI POOND
> Hmm, I got some good replies from the most respected
> netters of this ng. Salman, you are right this punjab-
> sindh or lahore-karachi (more sounding) civil war has
> started. JM's has made his point and mickey mouse (BCCP)
> is trying to get away with it.
>
> Lahori pond if half of the pakistani side has opposed
> to play under Miandad b'cos of his age then why not
> use the same argument this time. Do you want to change
> rules and policies as they suit you the most? Well, if
> the response is yes, its not too surprising b'cos this
> is how the things work.
>
> Shamim and Lahori pond, tell me one thing where is Mianwali?
> Is it not in Punjab and I think Imran is basically from
> that city. And Shamim you have said that non of trio's
> are from Punjab as they have Khan attached at the end of
> the their names but by adding Khan no one can become a
> pathan by cast. I know that Dr Jahangir's family is
> living in Punjab for quite a while and on that basis I
> definitely will consider them from Punjab. But it would
> be a surprise for me if they turns out to be Pathan.
> Imran Khan Niazi ---pathan ...woo.
>
Well you are absolutely right Mianwali is in Punjab as is Jalundher(sp).Thats
where Imrans Mother was from. Before independende Imrans family was settled in
Jalundher.At that time they had bastees. Imrans mother I believe was from a
bastee known as Nawee bastee. I think u should know that Javed Burki his two
brothers speak fluent pushto. So do their children for that matter. The reason
why Imran and Majids family settled in Punjab was because most of their family
property was in that area.Imran,majid and all the rest of the immdeiate family
lived in Lahore and not a block away from each other is zaman park.Now just
because they lived in Punjab does not mean that they are not Pathans.The point
is that you adjust to the surroundings where you live.
This argument is really pathetic but i just wanted to get the record straight
> Shamim from here on I will try to make your facts more
> clear.
> (shamim, I'm not putting arguments for the sake
> of arguments so please go through them)
> Fact 1: By adding 'Khan' one can not become a Pathan.
> I met Majid Khan and by no means he can speak
> pashtoo, he has a beautiful punjabi accent.
> Don't say that their forefather came from Afganistan.
> Weak argument used by cast immitants alot.
Well its true. I can speak Punjabi very well and can speak english with a
American accent,but that does not make me a Punjabi or a American.Just tell me
something what has the family got to gain by falsely claiming to be Pathans.ThisI must say is very childish.
> Fact 2: After Imran, Miandad was the only choice and Majid
> was in a fix position so he did it without his will.
> Fact 3: Cricketers like Gooch, Gower, Gavaskar, Miandad are
> born cricketers and if someone praise their elegance
> then it shows no pinnacle knowledge but reading truth
> of the wall. Please send me videos when JB commented
> about Mohsin and shoaib in particular. Listening to
> his comments make you feel that either he doesn't have
> a clue of the game or he is a complete jerk.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
now these statements are not very mature sir. The difference between Javed Burkiand other commentaters like Iftikhar or Muneer Hussain is that JB speaks his
mind. He is not all praise for every member on the team. If thats how he feels
about someone then so be it,thats his opinion. One more thing about the Shoaib
issue,you forget that Shoaib himself was a big sifarshi in the beginging cause
of his father. Though personally i believe that Shoaib deserves a place in the
test team.
> Fact 6: Imran and Majid may hate each other but their goals and
> objectives are more or less the same. Majid was a Khalifa
> and Imran is miles ahead of him.
Hate naaa thats to strong a word...........
In the end i would just like to add that before all of us start pointing
the finger as to whodunnit i think we should all know exactly what happend in
the recent few days.
well later....
Abdur Khan
|> With due appologies to all Imran lovers, he was/is dirty
|> and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
|> this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
|> at the trio: Javed Burki, Majid Khan and the great Imran
|> Khan. If anyone has listened to JB's comments on different
|> cricketers in PTV's commentary box one can easily judge him
|> a complete idiot. The magistic Majid was good and is
|> very much articulate but politics is too deep down into his
|> soul. He was the person, who first opposed to play under
|> Miandad and Imran was also in that camp.
we must also note, that even though they all cousins, Majid doesn't
get along with Imran. They hate each others guts.
|> If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
|> crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
|> of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
|> is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
|> IK.
By not mentioning the tragedy, we cant curse at Imran. So if you
what happened, let us know .................
Salim's replacement is a true find, Rashid latif a true batsmen/keeper.
He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
|> slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
|> second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
|> in between.
we must not forget Iqbal qasim.
Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
|> against India in Karachi was also in his account. The behaviour of
|> Imran Khan was phenominal when he was playing under Asif Iqbal in
|> India. You will shortly hear Asif Mujtaba out of the list and many
|> of you know the reason?????
Well Zaheer Abbas was one of the worst captains and also one of the most
political.
|> It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
|> world cup at the end of his career. No credit was given to any member
|> of the team including JM for his outstanding performance throughout the
|> WC, even Gavasker was gracious enough to give JM due credit.
There was big uproar in Pakistan, everyone was upset, but every member of
the team was left out by Imran not only JM.
|> There is another big problem with the bureaucracy that they want
|> punjabs quota in every walk of life. No matter how badly a player
|> is playing but if he is a punjabi no person on earth can
|> kick him out of the team. We have seen Imran playing with one
|> leg for more than a year. The itching Salim Malik is from that
|> quota and we have to live with his elegant style. Look at the whole
|> lineup and you can easily find that punjabs quota is maintained
|> with great care and forced on us that cricket is not popular in other
|> parts of the country, whatta punjabi trio.
Salim Malik even though of the socalled punjabi quota, was not imran's
camp and there were a number of statements by him " critisizing(sp)
imrans attitude" and besides that he is a great player to watch, worth
his usual tendency to get himself out.
Maybe the real reason why there are more punjabi's than karachi'tes
is more cricket being played in punjab.
Whenever JM or Zaheer was made
|> captain, punjab toola was working against them and by making Akram as
|> the captain of the side they have proved their mentality and showed
|> us how low they can go.
Zaheer Abbas was an antrocius captain, many a time snatching a draw from
the jaws of victory. To support him you are showing a quota tendency as well.
Players should be judged on there talents and not from which quota they belong
to. The sacking of Miandad as captain is unjustified, and making akram captain
seems similar to miandad's appointment a decade ago. Akram is younger than
many team members and ramiz and salim will surely be upset.
In cricket fast bowlers have never been good captains ( kapil @ botham) Imrans
success was his ability to use the danda not strategy.
sahibzada rafay khan
Mr. Raza Syed
couple of netters have drawn a anology of Akram's appointment as captain with the
J.Miandad's appointment for the captaincy in 1980. Let me remind you that there is
a lot of difference b/w the two decisions. In Miandad's case:
Team was in complete dissarray, after Asif Iqbal's and Mushtaq's Retirement and more
importantly after disastorous tour of India in late 1979, so no one was sacked from
captaincy in that case. Most of the players did'nt even have there places gauranteed
at that time, and also no one was willing to take the burden of captaincy. So the position
now is quite different from the one in 1980.
--
S.R.Raza.
ra...@surya.engrg.uwo.ca
Syed Mohammad Ali
>With due appologies to all Imran lovers, he was/is dirty
>and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
>this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
Man, you seem to have a personal grudge against the
"Khan family"!!!!
>at the trio: Javed Burki, Majid Khan and the great Imran
>Khan. If anyone has listened to JB's comments on different
>cricketers in PTV's commentary box one can easily judge him
>a complete idiot. The magistic Majid was good and is
>very much articulate but politics is too deep down into his
>soul. He was the person, who first opposed to play under
>Miandad and Imran was also in that camp. He projected himself
>as a saint by saying that he has no problem playing under
>Miandad but in fact he never missed a chance to blow at JM.
>It was Imran who said before the WC that there is going to
>be no gap if Miandad can not play and the punjabi toola has
Please cite references, insrtead of making
baseless accusations.
>literally dropped him. Shame to those suckers who are now
>claiming themselves as the World champions which was completely
>out of question with out JM. I hope the memories of the WC-92
>semi final and final are still clear in hundreds of minds.
Well Imran Khan's contribution, if not more was not less either!
>
>If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
>crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
>of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
>is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
Tell me one good reason to give Salim Yousuf preference over
Moin Khan (is he a Karachiite ??) or Rashid Latif. Both of then
(I mean them) have performed as well as SY. IMHO, MK and RL are
better keepers than SY. Anyways at the age of 33, his keeping
days are almost over. Might as well give youngsters a chance to
perform, rather than looking frantically for a good keepres like
the Aussies did after Marsh.
>IK. He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
>slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
Do you know what Qasim Omar did ? I'm not claiming whether his
allegations were correct or not; nobody knows about that; it was
his disregarding the honor and prestige of my country which is
unfortunately yours as well, on a foreign soil.
>second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
Come on Mohsin performed pathetically in Australia before he
was kicked out. I think he should have had been given another
chance, but he couldn't wait for it himself. By the way he
and Mudassar were replaced by Ramiz and *SHOAIB*.
>in between. Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
>against India in Karachi was also in his account. The behaviour of
>Imran Khan was phenominal when he was playing under Asif Iqbal in
>India. You will shortly hear Asif Mujtaba out of the list and many
>of you know the reason?????
Now, now, now, don't bring your corrupted, MQM style thinking
in rsc (for those who don't know the back ground of MQM, it';s
an ethnic based political party which claims to represent people
who migrated into Pakistan, or rather Karachi, after the partition
of India). If you consider fairly, you'll probably notice that it
was Imran who after his comeback had faith in Salim Yousuf, rather
than Ashraf Ali (who is you know what..). Zaheer Abbas, incidentally
is a Punjabi himself (can somebody confirm this ????). So was Wasim
Raja.
Was it not Imran Khan, who brought Wasim Akram, Waqar Younus and
AAqib Javed and Mushtaq Ahmed into test cricket. Do u really think
knowing our system they would have been able to rise to the top-level
cricket so fast. You may argue that they are all punjabis but do you
think that Azim hafeez and Salim jaffer, really come at par with
them. Imran sacked *punjabis* too. Remember Abdul Qadir ? So many
people criticized Imran for taking Qadir to the World Cup '83 but
wasn't he the pick of the pakistani bowlers. I think Imran has a
great knack for picking up talent. Okay sometime hios confidence didn't
pay as in the case of Mansoor Akhtar, but do you know that during the
West Indies tour of Pakistan in 1980, great players like Rohan Kanahi
and Clive Lloyd themselves said that Mansoor Akhtar has one of the
best techniques they've seen.
>It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
That's pretty normal. You choose to hear just what you want, it seems.
Imran never said that he alone won the WC. Believe me what Imran
said can be said by any memeber of the team that won the WC, and
being the captain I think he's got more right than anyone
else to say that. Please get your facts clear before commenting
such baseless arguments.
>world cup at the end of his career. No credit was given to any member
>of the team including JM for his outstanding performance throughout the
>WC, even Gavasker was gracious enough to give JM due credit. No
>appraisal for the austrailian croud and many others who cheered for
>Pakistan the whole day. Even the english men was generous enough who
>thanked the OZ crowd who was more inclined towards Pakistan. Those were the
>history making moments with Imran being ignorant and selfish. But the
>Khan is so great that he feels no moral obligation and is above any
>criticism. Those who understand HINDI or Urdu might have noticed what
>Ramiz, Mushtaq and Inzamam were chanting at the closing ceremony. Many
>netters have objection to frog jumping but look at the cheapness of these
>ambassadors of Pakistan who were chanting for houses and plots infront of
>millions for their performance.
What does that to do with Imran Khan ???
>
>There is a problem with the Pakistanis that they make their
>bubble gods invincible and Imran is one of them. As long as he is
>living we have to live with his rotten politics.
>There is another big problem with the bureaucracy that they want
>punjabs quota in every walk of life. No matter how badly a player
>is playing but if he is a punjabi no person on earth can
>kick him out of the team. We have seen Imran playing with one
>leg for more than a year. The itching Salim Malik is from that
>quota and we have to live with his elegant style. Look at the whole
>lineup and you can easily find that punjabs quota is maintained
>with great care and forced on us that cricket is not popular in other
>parts of the country, whatta punjabi trio. Whenever JM or Zaheer was made
>captain, punjab toola was working against them and by making Akram as
>the captain of the side they have proved their mentality and showed
>us how low they can go.
Wow! It seems our dear friend is offended more by
Punjab, and the wrath is coming out on poor Imran Khan.
Come on get away with your petty ethnic feelings and think
like a Pakistani and not Punjabi, Sindhi or err... Karachiite.
My friend, it doesn't pay to vilify your country's name in
a foreign land. You're basically doing what Qasim Omar did,
and I hope you'll get the same punishment by the rsc netters.
>
>Believe it or not in many circles (other than punjabi) the sacking
>of Miandad was expected. Punjab selection committee has made his
>move, now we have to wait and see when they gonna lick their salaiva
>from the floor.
>
>
>
>--
>eik pathan dou punjabi loot rahai hain Pakistan (before)
>dou pathan eik punjabi loot raha hai Pakistan (now)
>
>this is not mine, i heard it from some young boys in Pakistan
>on my recent visit. It may hurt few but sound musical to me.
yeah right !!!!
>*********************************************************************
>
>SOHBAN SHAHID
>Civil Engg. Dept. (303) 491 7710/8204 (work)
>Colorado State University (303) 224 0397 (home)
>Ft. Collins, CO-80523
>
>*********************************************************************
regards,
regards,
Syed.
Shamim Naqvi
Sohban,
I have read your arguments. Others have replied to your posting as
well. I assume you know by now that Imran, Burki and Majid all claim
to be Pathans. And a claim is all that really matters. Why should we
doubt them?
I assume you have also heard by now that Zaheer is a punjabi.
I do not want to get into any Lahore/Karachi or Punjab/Sindh debate. I
do not know what really happened in the JM case. I responded to your
message because your claims as to what had happened did not fit the
facts.
When I do find out what happened, let us talk then.
\shamim
Wasiuddin A. Wahid
In his article, Shoban Shahid writes->second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
>second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
Mohsin Khan was dropped for the series against India in 1987 and never played
for Pakistan after that. As far as I remember, the Pakistani team was in Australia playing the Perth
Challenge cup, when the team was announced by the selectors without any sort of discussion with
Imran. The Khan was furious and demanded that Mohsin Khan or Rizwan-uz-zaman be included. The
selectors finally agred to include Rizwan.
So you see Imran was not responsible for Mohsin's being dropped.
-Wasi.
BASU
team from Karachi & those from Lahore. Or a Panjab-Sind break-up. Maybe if
we can have best possible a Panjab XI & a Sind XI, we will be in a better
position to comment on the above article.
Scrooge McDuck
Sohban Shahid
PUNJAB SINDH
Aamir Sohail X
Ramiz Raja X
Asif Mujtaba X
Javed Miandad X (if not playing then more room for ?)
Salim Malik X
Inzamamul Haq X
Rashid Latif X
Wasim Akram X
Waqar Younus X
Mushtaq Ahmed X
Aaquib Javed X
--
Sohban Shahid
|> In article <Jan27.204...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ss73...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes...
|> >With due appologies to all Imran lovers, he was/is dirty
|> >and does play rotten politics in cricket. No matter what
|> >this 'khan family' is not going to give us a break. Look
|>
|>
|> Man, you seem to have a personal grudge against the
|> "Khan family"!!!!
|>
out one.
|> >Miandad and Imran was also in that camp. He projected himself
|> >as a saint by saying that he has no problem playing under
|> >Miandad but in fact he never missed a chance to blow at JM.
|> >It was Imran who said before the WC that there is going to
|> >be no gap if Miandad can not play and the punjabi toola has
|>
|> Please cite references, insrtead of making
|> baseless accusations.
You tell me whether JM was dropped from the WC squad or not at the
first place. For references read any newspaper (Pakistan base)
before WC-92.
|> >literally dropped him. Shame to those suckers who are now
|> >claiming themselves as the World champions which was completely
|> >out of question with out JM. I hope the memories of the WC-92
|> >semi final and final are still clear in hundreds of minds.
|>
|>
|> Well Imran Khan's contribution, if not more was not less either!
Please check Imrans stats before the semi-final and final. And
do carefully listen to the comments passed by Australian and
English experts about his move which payed off by others hard
work later. If you know one day cricket then you can easily decide
what kind of a batting was it, helpfull or killing.
|> >
|> >If the achievements of IK's are endless so does his cricket
|> >crimes. He has destroyed careers of many good players b'cos
|> >of his ego. Netters on this ng are sick asking why Salim Yousuf
|> >is sacked but if they know the tragedy behind they will curse
|>
|>
|> Tell me one good reason to give Salim Yousuf preference over
|> Moin Khan (is he a Karachiite ??) or Rashid Latif. Both of then
|> (I mean them) have performed as well as SY. IMHO, MK and RL are
|> better keepers than SY. Anyways at the age of 33, his keeping
|> days are almost over. Might as well give youngsters a chance to
|> perform, rather than looking frantically for a good keepres like
|> the Aussies did after Marsh.
After Wasim Bari every WK from Pakistan was/is mediocre type. But
there were some good points in SY. He was a better bat and was
a good fighter, named as tiger by Imran. Moin did perform good
but his batting was no close to SY. Rashid has just entered
into the game and many of us have great hopes with him.
|> >IK. He first claimed that Shoaib is not for one day then
|> >slowly he kicked him out of the test side. Qasim Omar was his
|>
|> Do you know what Qasim Omar did ? I'm not claiming whether his
|> allegations were correct or not; nobody knows about that; it was
|> his disregarding the honor and prestige of my country which is
|> unfortunately yours as well, on a foreign soil.
Well there is nothing wrong if somebody claims that Pakistani
high officals are corrupt and involve in drugs. Its a truth
and well known fact. First you guys commit it and then you
want others to cover it for you, why? But this doesn't mean
that Imran was involved in drugs, his claim was later proved
in Bothams case and drug is such a curse that no country is
free from it, so why turning blue if one has pin pointed few.
If Pakistanis have so much fear of god and do care about their
honor and prestige of the country then why they do wrong things
at the first place. It really doesn't matter whether you are
on a foreign soil or at home. Truth should stand alone under
all conditions.
|> >second pry after Mohsin Khan and JM is his last with numerous
|>
|> Come on Mohsin performed pathetically in Australia before he
|> was kicked out. I think he should have had been given another
|> chance, but he couldn't wait for it himself. By the way he
|> and Mudassar were replaced by Ramiz and *SHOAIB*.
FYI, Mohsin was dropped while playing in Australia and never got
a second chance.
|> >in between. Exclusion of Zaheer Abbass from the final test
|> >against India in Karachi was also in his account. The behaviour of
|> >Imran Khan was phenominal when he was playing under Asif Iqbal in
|> >India. You will shortly hear Asif Mujtaba out of the list and many
|> >of you know the reason?????
|>
|>
|> Now, now, now, don't bring your corrupted, MQM style thinking
|> in rsc (for those who don't know the back ground of MQM, it';s
|> an ethnic based political party which claims to represent people
|> who migrated into Pakistan, or rather Karachi, after the partition
|> of India).
Yes, you are slowly and swiftly coming down to the hole you belong.
Imran sack both punjabis and others but in most cases it was his
ego problem and you must not deny this fact. While the bureaucracy
play foul game in most cases which I am talking about. Things that
I am pointing are not new but people like you only read it from one
perspective that the speaker is from Karachi so label him with some
ethnic party and especially the party which irc's the most. This
will not settle the issue you really have to dig hard for positive
results which nobody is interested in.
|>
|> >It was not long ago when Imran made his claim that he has finally won the
|>
|> That's pretty normal. You choose to hear just what you want, it seems.
|> Imran never said that he alone won the WC. Believe me what Imran
|> said can be said by any memeber of the team that won the WC, and
|> being the captain I think he's got more right than anyone
|> else to say that. Please get your facts clear before commenting
|> such baseless arguments.
Imran has accepted his mistake later when pointed out by his own
team mates but then it was too late for a remedy to work.
|> Wow! It seems our dear friend is offended more by
|> Punjab, and the wrath is coming out on poor Imran Khan.
|> Come on get away with your petty ethnic feelings and think
|> like a Pakistani and not Punjabi, Sindhi or err... Karachiite.
|>
For your convenience I have provided the breakup of Pak team asked
by 'BASU or Baskhar', would be interesting if you read. Clean your
house first then talk about ideals, this doesn't suit you in the
current situation.
BASU
> In cricket fast bowlers have never been good captains ( kapil @ botham)
How about
Keith Miller
Bob Willis
Sir Leary Constantine
Mike Procter
Sir Gary Sobers (he was as fast as Botham)
?
True - that they are few & in far between!
Scrooge McDuck
>
> sahibzada rafay khan
ABBAS HASAN
>>>>> Imran was a great captain (even though he played politics too much)
Abbas
Syed Mohammad Ali
>As per request the following breakup is provided:
>
> PUNJAB SINDH
Sindh or Karachi ????????????
>Aamir Sohail X
>Ramiz Raja X
>Asif Mujtaba X
>Javed Miandad X (if not playing then more room for ?)
>Salim Malik X
>Inzamamul Haq X
>Rashid Latif X
>Wasim Akram X
>Waqar Younus X
>Mushtaq Ahmed X
>Aaquib Javed X
Population
Punjab Karachi
> 50 million 8.5 million
ratio 5/6 1/6
ratio in the 8/11 3/11
team
Doesn't this show that Karachi is getting more than it's share.
Come on cricket is played all over Punjab and as much as in Karachi.
It's no wonder it reflects in the team too.
regards,
Syed
BASU
> As per request the following breakup is provided:
>
> PUNJAB SINDH
> Aamir Sohail X
> Ramiz Raja X
> Asif Mujtaba X
> Javed Miandad X (if not playing then more room for ?)
see below
> Inzamamul Haq X
> Rashid Latif X
> Wasim Akram X
> Waqar Younus X
> Mushtaq Ahmed X
> Aaquib Javed X
Same details about the following cricketers please?
Shoaib Md
Ijaz Ahmad
Zahid Fazal
Mansoor Rana
Manzoor Elahi
Salim Yousuf
Akram Raza
Moin Khan
Mohsin Kamal
Tausif Ahmed
Salim Jaffer
McDuck
Abbas Hasan
Karachi getting more than its share?
One does not allocate places in a cricket team by a regional quota system.
You have to remember also that talent(for cricket) is not a uniformly
distributed quantity (If anything like that were true then India would be
the best cricketing nation in the world but we all know what happened to
them in the world cup).
Anyways, I know that Imran played dirty politics but I do not think that
Karachi is over-represented in the Pakistani squad. It is just that there
is more talent over there.
ABBAS
P.S. I think you can guess where I am from!
Faheem Hayat
>In article <Jan31.220...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ss73...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes...
>>As per request the following breakup is provided:
>>
>> PUNJAB SINDH
> ^^^^^^
>
>
> Sindh or Karachi ????????????
>
>>Aamir Sohail X
>>Ramiz Raja X
>>Asif Mujtaba X
>>Javed Miandad X (if not playing then more room for ?)
>>Salim Malik X
>>Inzamamul Haq X
>>Rashid Latif X
>>Wasim Akram X
>>Waqar Younus X
>>Mushtaq Ahmed X
>>Aaquib Javed X
>
>
> Population
>
>
> Punjab Karachi
>
> > 50 million 8.5 million
The population of Punjab is 66 million, whereas Sind has only 13 million
people. (Source World Almanac);
>
>
> ratio 5/6 1/6
>
>
>ratio in the 8/11 3/11
>
>team
>
> Doesn't this show that Karachi is getting more than it's share.
>Come on cricket is played all over Punjab and as much as in Karachi.
>It's no wonder it reflects in the team too.
>
>regards,
>
>Syed
>
>>--
>>*********************************************************************
>>
>>SOHBAN SHAHID
>>Civil Engg. Dept. (303) 491 7710/8204 (work)
>>Colorado State University (303) 224 0397 (home)
>>Ft. Collins, CO-80523
>>
>>*********************************************************************
Faheem Hayat
Advanced Micro Devices
Austin, Texas
Iblees
>
> Same details about the following cricketers please?
>
> Ijaz Ahmad Punjab (Sialkot)
> Zahid Fazal Punjab (Sialkot)
> Mansoor Rana Punjab (Lahore)
> Manzoor Elahi Punjab (Sahiwal/ Multan ?)
> Salim Yousuf Karachi
> Akram Raza Punjab (Lahore)
> Moin Khan Karachi
> Mohsin Kamal Punjab (Lahore)
> Tausif Ahmed Karachi
> Salim Jaffer Karachi
Would people crying about provincialism in the case of Salim Yousaf care to
substantiate their calim, when both Moin Khan and Rashid Lateef are from
Karachi?
Nauman Chaudhry
BASU
> |> Well Imran Khan's contribution, if not more was not less
either!
>
> Please check Imrans stats before the semi-final and final. And
> do carefully listen to the comments passed by Australian and
> English experts about his move which payed off by others hard
> work later. If you know one day cricket then you can easily decide
> what kind of a batting was it, helpfull or killing.
>
semi finals & finals. Imran scored 70 in that match that set the stage for
Inzanam's final assault on the bowling. In their previous match, the
latter came in 1 down & was dismissed cheaply by Morrison - He is
thoroughly incompetant against any opening attack. So had someone not
caused him to enter late in the innings, Pakistan may not have won.
As for the finals, both Imran & Miandad paved the way for Haq & Akram to
launch a late assault on Pringle & co.
McDuck
Aamir Husain
> In article <3FEB1993...@vxcrna.cern.ch> haf...@vxcrna.cern.ch (Syed Mohammad Ali) writes:
> >In article <Jan31.220...@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, ss73...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu writes...
> >>As per request the following breakup is provided:
> >>
> >> PUNJAB SINDH
> > ^^^^^^
> >
> >
> > Sindh or Karachi ????????????
> >
> >>Aamir Sohail X
> >>Ramiz Raja X
> >>Asif Mujtaba X
> >>Javed Miandad X (if not playing then more room for ?)
> >>Salim Malik X
> >>Inzamamul Haq X
> >>Rashid Latif X
> >>Wasim Akram X
> >>Waqar Younus X
> >>Mushtaq Ahmed X
> >>Aaquib Javed X
> >
> >
> > Population
> >
> >
> > Punjab Karachi
> >
> > > 50 million 8.5 million
>
> The population of Punjab is 66 million, whereas Sind has only 13 million
> people. (Source World Almanac);
>
sorry for going of the topic slightly,
but estimates suggest pakistan's popn at 117.5 million (july 1991)
this is brokenn down into langauges spoken(first or native langauge)
punjabi 64%, sindhi-12%, pashtu-8%, urdu 7%, balochi and other 9%
assuming most urdu speaking people are in sind, say 7%, making sindh 19%
then punjab popn estimated at 75.2 million and sindh at 22.3 million
alot of assumptions etc disregarded. now so as to continue this pointless
thread, i will get back to the cricket stats being displayed and alter
them to provide an eye opener. :-) :-) loads of smileys forgotten.
punjab 8/11 sindh 3/11 in terms of cricket players who played in Aus
popon wise punjab's popn is approx 3 times that of sindh, and lo
and behold, the number of cricketers are approx 3 times that from sindh.
so to conclude lets just select the best team, enough said.!! :-)
Aamir
Jawad Ali
>
>> Moin Khan Karachi
No comment on the provencialism but isn't Moin from 'Pindi?
j n a
Syed Mohammad Ali
>Same details about the following cricketers please?
>
>Shoaib Md
>Ijaz Ahmad
Punjab
>Zahid Fazal
Karachi
>Mansoor Rana
Punjab
>Manzoor Elahi
Punjab
>Salim Yousuf
Karachi
>Akram Raza
>Moin Khan
Karachi
>Mohsin Kamal
>Tausif Ahmed
Karachi
>Salim Jaffer
Karachi
>
>McDuck
regards,
Syed
Syed Mohammad Ali
The point was not to point out that Karachi is getting more than
it's share. It was in response to Sohban's assertion that Punjab
has a fixed quota.
By the way, what makes you think that Karachi has more talent than
any other part of the country. Are you insinuating that ethnic
background makes a difference in this regard.
Punjab has an added advantage of having turf wickets, unlike the
cement top wickets we play on in Karachi. No wonder you get
bowlers like Wasim Akram and Waqar Younus. You can't defy that!!
>ABBAS
>P.S. I think you can guess where I am from!
regards,
Syed
P.S. From the same place as I am, Pakistan!!!
D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
Not anymore... He was born in Pindi, but now lives in Karachi!
Salman
--
When humans are given unalieanable rights like life, liberty, and the
pursuit in happiness, very often they interpret that as happiness of
pursuit which threatens the liberty of life in their surroundings.
--- D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar
Sohban Shahid
Cricket is a game and it should be played under its norms. Your
smart brain can easily notice the crying of people about
provincialism but on the other hand you are so blind folded that
you can not add numbers below Punjab. We are talking about a
national team which definately requires some talent and one has to
seek the best available talent from all over the country. Why numbers
are representing the quota of one province here? instead of being a
good proportion of cricketing talent from Pakistan.
About Salim Yousuf and other WK's from Karachi I will only say that
its b'cos of Bari. These boys with tons of others have seen Bari
being on top so they tried to copy him the best. You might would
like to add Anil Dalpat's name in it. Poor guy lost his place b'cos
of Imran and Islam otherwise he was mentioned by Bari as his deputy.
The same logic can be used in Punjab for fast bowlers as they have
seen Imran conquering the world of cricket, same rule applies again
on Karachi for batsmens and spinners as many world famous batsmens
and spinners are from Karachi, no name dropping.
The whole point is that there is some problem, and most of the time
people try to hide facts with their utopian logic or with weak math.
Just give a good glance at it, you might will get a clue.
|> Nauman Chaudhry
P.S> Whole thing will create a mess if I ask you to check punjabs
representation under the label of Karachi. Hmm, i can
feel a smile on your face....naughty, naughty boy.
skr...@uoft02.utoledo.edu
>>You have to remember also that talent(for cricket) is not a uniformly
>>distributed quantity (If anything like that were true then India would be
>>the best cricketing nation in the world but we all know what happened to
>>them in the world cup).
>>Anyways, I know that Imran played dirty politics but I do not think that
>>Karachi is over-represented in the Pakistani squad. It is just that there
>>is more talent over there.
This is in response to the internal squabble of Pakistanis.I feel that
they have no business in bringing India into this argument.The present
Pak team is no better than India with such a poor batting lineup despite
Javed (Well ,if they have dropped him - their batting is zero.Pak's
batting revolves around him).Dont judge a team just by one trophy.
Mani
Univ of Toledo
BASU
It wasn't my contendtion that he wasn't, but that you can argue with the
original poster. I was refuting his contention that fast bowlers don't
make good captains by citing some other examples.
McDuck
> Abbas
News admin
>> > In cricket fast bowlers have never been good captains ( kapil @ botham)
>> Bob Willis
>> Sir Leary Constantine
>> Mike Procter
>> Sir Gary Sobers (he was as fast as Botham)
Frank Worrell, one of the greatest captains of the game, used to
bowl medium pacers regularly....and don't forget
Bob Willis who led England for a couple of seasaons? Fazal Mahmood
led Pakistan for quite a few. Way back in time, Wilfrid Rhodes
captained England.
Dipak Basu.
SAIRAJU TALLAVARJULA
>
>>> > In cricket fast bowlers have never been good captains ( kapil @ botham)
>
>
How many great batsmen have been great captains?
BTW I am asking a question, not challenging :-)
Some of the lesser gifted players have been good captains on an average.
But again times and teams made these people great captains.
Captains do make decisions and hope they go right.
Like Kapil bringing Kirti Azad and Amarnath to bowl against England
in 1983 W Cup. With Botham at crease England could have tore Indian
attack apart, but instead they lost one wicket and scored 25 runs in
12 overs! The decision worked.
I wonder how Clive Lloyd would have performed as a skipper had he
captained Indian team in the last 2 years?
Enough!
" "
Salam to ya all who make my day,
for without cricket my system refuses to function,
and function is to say the least regarding chores of grad school `.-)
Stallav_
BASU
> How many great batsmen have been great captains?
Ian Chappell
Sir Frank Worrell
Geoff Howarth
Mustaque Md
Clive Lloyd
Bobby Simpson
Sunny Gavaskar
Martin Crowe
> BTW I am asking a question, not challenging :-)
Good qustion. Some great batsmen who were mediocre captains
Ian Botham
Kim Hughes
Javed Miandad
David Gower
Sir Don Bradman, Viv Richards, Greg Chappell, Allan Border & Sir Gary
Sobers were said to be average *captains*; however, their world beating
teams that ensured their success.
> Some of the lesser gifted players have been good captains on an average.
> But again times and teams made these people great captains.
Here are some such captains
Mike Brearley
Mike Gatting
Ravi Shastri (believe it or not!)
Kris Srikkanth (not great but OK)
>
> Captains do make decisions and hope they go right.
> Like Kapil bringing Kirti Azad and Amarnath to bowl against England
> in 1983 W Cup. With Botham at crease England could have tore Indian
> attack apart, but instead they lost one wicket and scored 25 runs in
> 12 overs! The decision worked.
>
Or Srikkanth asking Chetan Sharma to come in to bat @ #4 in the Nehru cup.
That decision too clicked.
Btw, here's another question. How important is it for a captain to lead
from the front? I had read Mike Brearley's 'The art of captaincy', but I
don't remember him having explicitly addressed this issue.
Bye
McDuck
> Stallav_
Sougata Mukherjea
>In article <1993Feb10....@ncsu.edu> sta...@eos.ncsu.edu (SAIRAJU
>TALLAVARJULA) writes:
>> How many great batsmen have been great captains?
>
>Ian Chappell
>Sir Frank Worrell
>Geoff Howarth
>Mustaque Md
>Clive Lloyd
>Bobby Simpson
>Sunny Gavaskar
>Martin Crowe
>
>
>Bye
>
>McDuck
>
>> Stallav_
Well, I am not anti-Gavaskar but honestly you can't say that he was a great captain.
He was average.
- Sougata
BASU
> In article <1lej3a...@dns1.NMSU.Edu> sbasu@spock (BASU) writes:
> >
> >
> >Ian Botham
Check his captaincy record. It might be good enough for you, but even
Botham thought otherwise: in the Windies, captaincy so rattled him that
Andy Roberts hit 26 runs of an over from him. In the Ashes tour that
followed, the first 2 tests were lost; Mike Brearley then regained the
captaincy, & Botham, the non-captaining player went on to win the Ashes
single handed for England.
>
> Were you in that jingo mode of yours when you wrote this????
If I was, I'd have indicated it with an <Alt j>
> If you haven't already, I suggest you add this to that list you posted a
> couple of days back :-) ^^^^
>
Add what? To which list?
Cheers,
McDuck
>
> Rohan
Sougata Mukherjea
>In article <1993Feb11....@cc.gatech.edu> sou...@cc.gatech.edu (Sougata Mukherjea) writes:
>
>>>> How many great batsmen have been great captains?
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Well, I am not anti-Gavaskar but honestly you can't say that he was a great captain.
>
>He was average.
>
>
> captain of the Indian team in terms of test matches captained, tests
> won, tests lost etc....
>
> That means that all other Indian captains were below average.
>
> Also his leadership in the 1985 World Champ. trophy was probably the
> best ever by any Indian. (India was unbeatable and all the team
> members acknowledged Gavaskar's good leadership qualities)
>
> Shivanand Bhajekar
>
>>- Sougata
>>
>
>
Well, even though Pataudi and Amarnath (Lala) had worse records as captains,
undoubtedly they were better captains than Gavaskar. The record depends on
other factors also - like the strength of your side and your opposition.
Pataudi and Amarnath definitely captained weaker sides than Gavaskar.
1985 B&H was undoubtedly great for India and Gavaskar.
But if u notice that Gavaskar captained India vs Kallis's WI and Hughes Aussies -
both teams without their Packer stars. So, those vistories should be taken with a
pinch of salt. Of course, India's series win over Pakistan in 1979-80 was a
highlight of Indian cricket.
My main grudge against Gavaskar's captaincy was the 1981-82 series against England
which was one of the most boring series. He can be partly blamed for the way the
series was played. He was too defensive.
The 1984-85 series vs England was also a bad one for Gavaskar - though he compensated
by winning the B&H just after that.
As I told before that I am not a member of the anti-Gavaskar club (which is
prominent in r.s.c. nowadays :-) ), but if u'll allow me to select a best Indian captain
I'll definitely prefer Amarnath or Pataudi to Gavaskar.
- Sougata
BASU
> >> >Ian Botham
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >Check his captaincy record. It might be good enough for you, but even
>
> I'm talking about your not-so-rational claim that he is a great
batsman!!!!
>
Well, the guy (the gorilla) who once hit Lillee & Alderman inc. for 149* &
who in county cricket once hit Andy Roberts out of the grounds certainly
has claims to greatness. Not to mention the fact that he's England's most
inspiring cricketer.
Cheers
McDuck
> Cheers,
>
> Rohan
> --
Rohan Koduvayur Kri Chandran
>In article <1993Feb11.2...@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>roh...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rohan Koduvayur Kri Chandran) writes:
>> In article <1lej3a...@dns1.NMSU.Edu> sbasu@spock (BASU) writes:
>> >
>> >Good qustion. Some great batsmen who were mediocre captains
>> >
>> >Ian Botham
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Check his captaincy record. It might be good enough for you, but even
heh! I'm not talking about his captaincy record!!!!
I'm talking about your not-so-rational claim that he is a great batsman!!!!
Cheers,
Rohan
--
*******************************************************************************
Manchester United Football Club * INDIA - We are the Champions.....
_______________________________ * England are the losers...
Leading the way in the nineties * ODI's: India 1 England 1
1990 F.A.Cup * TEST's: India 1 England 0
1991 Cup Winners Cup * #1 fan of Kapil Dev
1992 League Cup & Super Cup * #1 fan of Azhar (joint with Mayank)
1993 Premier League?? * KAPIL DEV - 414 / 4965
1993 F.A. Cup?? * AZHAR - 3479 (46.39/12 in 78/3)
*******************************************************************************
Rohan Chandran roh...@leland.stanford.EDU
Rohan Koduvayur Kri Chandran
>
>Ian Botham
Were you in that jingo mode of yours when you wrote this????
If you haven't already, I suggest you add this to that list you posted a
couple of days back :-)
Cheers,
Rohan
--
*******************************************************************************
TESTS M I NO HST RUNS AVE 100 / 50 / 0
Azhar 52 78 3 199 3479 46.39 12 / 11 / 2
Kapil 121 175 13 163 4965 30.65 8 / 25 / 16
Tendulkar 22 34 3 148* 1217 39.26 4 / 6 / 3
Manjrekar 26 42 4 218 1523 40.08 4 / 5 / 2
ODI's
Azhar 147 135 25 108* 3698 33.62 3 / 17 / 6
Kapil 199 180 36 175* 3590 24.94 1 / 14 / 12
Tendulkar 49 47 5 84 1442 34.33 0 / 11 / 3
BOWLING: Kapil.
BALLS RUNS WKTS AVE ECON/SR BEST 5 / 10
ODI's 10074 6225 236 26.38 61.79 5-43 2 / 0
TEST's 26367 12316 414 29.75 63.69 9-83 23 / 2
*******************************************************************************
Rohan Chandran roh...@leland.Stanford.EDU
Shivanand Bhajekar
>>> How many great batsmen have been great captains?
Sunny Gavaskar
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, I am not anti-Gavaskar but honestly you can't say that he was a great captain.
He was average.