Brian Lara,Steve Waugh,Mark Waugh.....a comparison.
afr...@rocketmail.com
Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
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http://www.geocities.com/Baja/6157/
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Donald Rose
afr...@rocketmail.com wrote in article <8678776...@dejanews.com>...
| Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
| took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
| 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
|
| Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
| Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
|
| Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
|
]] Yeh, but if I wanted someone to bat for my life,
I think I would still pick Steve Waugh over the
other two. Wouldn't you?????
|
--
"Happiness for a bee or a dolphin is simply to exist:
for a man it is to know and to wonder."
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VALE The world is now poorer
Rosebud
Jason Day
afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
> Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
> took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
> 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
>
> Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
> Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>
> Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
(snip)
An interesting fact that was related by Ian Chappell during the first
day's play at Old Trafford; of the 5750 or so runs that Steve Waugh has
scored in Test Cricket, the last 3,000 have been scored at an average of
75.00. This is since 1993.
Colin Lord
afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
: Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
: took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
: 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
:
: Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
: Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
Two things to note. One: tests aren't accurate enough, try innings
and completed innings prefereably. S Waugh batted at 7-9 for a
while so he may not have much chance to bat twice in many tests.
Likewise completed innings are a more accurate since you don't
penalise some who didn't get out.
Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
Colin
Martin Sneesby
Colin Lord wrote:
>
> afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> : Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
> : took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
> : 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
> :
> : Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
> : Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>
> Two things to note. One: tests aren't accurate enough, try innings
> and completed innings prefereably. S Waugh batted at 7-9 for a
Find one test where he batted at 9! To be honest, I can't remeber him
ever batting lower than 6 although I'd be preapred to accept that he
occassionally came in at 7 in his early days.
Martin
CS
afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
>took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
>72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
Well it does depend where you bat in the order.
If you bat lower down you may not get a bat and if
you do and there's a batting collapse then you have to
play with the tailenders.
Anyway S Waugh in the past 3 years has averages around
75 in test cricket. Not bad a thought.
Lara hasn't got to ten test hundreds yet.
>Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
>Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
Bradman scored 6996 in 52 tests. Including 29 hundreds.
Proberbly one of the few batsman in test history to score
more hundreds than fifties.
Against England Bradman scored 19 centuries in 63 innings
with a total of 5028 runs.
>Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
Just get your fast bowler to bowl around the wicket like
Glen McGrath did which cramped Lara up.
Tim Cotsford
Jason Day wrote:
>
> afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
> > took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
> > 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
> >
> > Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
> >
>
>
> An interesting fact that was related by Ian Chappell during the first
> day's play at Old Trafford; of the 5750 or so runs that Steve Waugh has
> scored in Test Cricket, the last 3,000 have been scored at an average of
> 75.00. This is since 1993.
Indeed,
makes you realise how poor his ave was prior to this.
Cheers
Tim
Z. Skeete
CS wrote:
(snip...)
>
> Lara hasn't got to ten test hundreds yet.
Man, you were wrong on this count! Lara scored his 10th Test hundred in
his last test inning against Sri Lanka! Have you short memory?
Regard,
"tito capotito"
Z. Skeete
Colin Lord wrote:
(snip)
>
> Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
> early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
> against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
>
> Colin
>
>
Australia XI as an all-rounder, but as a specialist batsman. It was only
later that his bowling came to be useful, and he was deemed an
all-rounder, but even he isn't a specialist all-rounder.
Regard,
"Tito Capotito"
Saileshwar Krishnamurthy
>>>>> "CS" == CS <nos...@nospam.com.au> writes:
CS> afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
CS> Bradman scored 6996 in 52 tests. Including 29 hundreds. Proberbly
CS> one of the few batsman in test history to score more hundreds than
CS> fifties.
I think Azhar has scored 17 tons and 16 fifties :-)
--
Sailesh Krishnamurthy, Visiting Graduate Student,
CAS, IBM SWS Toronto, 1150 Eglinton East, Ph: 416.448.3838
sai...@vnet.ibm.com, http://www.cs.purdue.edu/people/krish
Kurt Toolsie
Colin Lord wrote:
>
> afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> : Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
> : took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
> : 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
> :
> : Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
> : Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>
> and completed innings prefereably. S Waugh batted at 7-9 for a
> Likewise completed innings are a more accurate since you don't
> penalise some who didn't get out.
>
Hmmm, I don't remember SWaugh batting that low down the order.
I do agree with you that completed innings are a more accurate
statistic than matches played. However, I have always felt
that when comparing the value to a team it does not matter
whether a batsman is left not out or not. Surely, it does
not make any difference to the team if it is the specialist
batsman or the #11 that is last out.
> Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
> early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
> against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
>
Again the fact that SWaugh did some bowling is relevant when
comparing worth to the team. However, it has absolutely no
relevance when comparing his batting abilities to Lara or
any other batsman, which was the purpose of the original
thread.
Kurt
Simon Pleasants
On Fri, 04 Jul 1997 09:33:20 +1100, Jason Day <ad...@zeta.org.au>
wrote:
>An interesting fact that was related by Ian Chappell during the first
>day's play at Old Trafford; of the 5750 or so runs that Steve Waugh has
>scored in Test Cricket, the last 3,000 have been scored at an average of
>75.00. This is since 1993.
The same man who stated today that Alec Stewart had played almost all
of his 15 (16?) tests against Australia as a specialist batsman. In
fact he has played at least 9 of them (off the top of my head) as a
batsman/keeper. Maybe more.
--
Simon Pleasants -=- Freelance Broadcasting & Web Services
Info/homepage at: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/ples/index.htm
"Keep a dream in your pocket.... never let it fade away!"
The Banners
Z. Skeete wrote:
>
> Colin Lord wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
> > early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
> > against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
> >
> >
> >
> If my memory serve me right, then S. Waugh did not start out in the
> Australia XI as an all-rounder, but as a specialist batsman. It was only
> later that his bowling came to be useful, and he was deemed an
> all-rounder, but even he isn't a specialist all-rounder.
>
my memory of S waugh was that early on, his bowling kept him in the team
and there was grave doubt he could fill the part of a batsman at number
6. and he made his mark in odi's because of his bowling - particularly
the last few overs.. it has only been recently due to his groin injury
that he is considered a specialist batsman.
Paul Husbands
> Just get your fast bowler to bowl around the wicket like
> Glen McGrath did which cramped Lara up.
England tried that and they managed to restrict Lara to just 375 or
something like that - <g>
Paul
Hamish Laws
On Fri, 04 Jul 1997 06:04:05 GMT, nos...@nospam.com.au (CS) wrote:
>afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>Well it does depend where you bat in the order.
>If you bat lower down you may not get a bat and if
>you do and there's a batting collapse then you have to
>play with the tailenders.
And Steve Waugh's average has been lifted by the not outs he's gotten due to the
tail falling around him. Added to which he's chosen his position.
>
>Lara hasn't got to ten test hundreds yet.
I believe that he has.
>
>>Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
>>Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>
>Bradman scored 6996 in 52 tests. Including 29 hundreds.
>Proberbly one of the few batsman in test history to score
>more hundreds than fifties.
One of the few, probably the only one with more than 5 centuries or so, nope
Headley 10 100s and 5 50s.
>
>Against England Bradman scored 19 centuries in 63 innings
>with a total of 5028 runs.
Average 89 iirc
>
>>Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
>
>Just get your fast bowler to bowl around the wicket like
>Glen McGrath did which cramped Lara up.
Unless they can get the bounce which McGrath got I wouldn't assume that'll work.
Added to which I would hope that Lara has looked at those dismissals and figured
out what to do.
****************************************************************************
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'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
h_l...@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au
h_l...@tassie.net.au
Hamish Laws
On 4 Jul 1997 03:52:28 GMT, co...@turing.une.edu.au (Colin Lord) wrote:
>afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>: Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
>: took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
>: 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
>:
>: Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
>: Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>
>Two things to note. One: tests aren't accurate enough, try innings
>and completed innings prefereably. S Waugh batted at 7-9 for a
9? I'd like to know when he was down at number 9!
He was at times down at 7 but if he was below 7 it was only for 1 or two
matches.
>while so he may not have much chance to bat twice in many tests.
Well considering the Australian batting of the mid 80s the number 11 was
probably batting twice in most tests.
>Likewise completed innings are a more accurate since you don't
>penalise some who didn't get out.
Penalise? I don't think it penalises them.
How about we compromise and put number of tests, number of innings, not outs.
>
>Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
>early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
>against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
Steve Waugh was brought into the team as an allrounder, I think that his
statistics show that he never did enough with his bowling to really be
considered as one. (In fact his bowling average since 93 is better than his
pre-93 average by quite a way iirc)
Michael Cullen
Tim Cotsford <med...@library.usyd.edu.au>, far, far away from here, appears
to have written:
[snips]
>> An interesting fact that was related by Ian Chappell during the first
>> day's play at Old Trafford; of the 5750 or so runs that Steve Waugh has
>> scored in Test Cricket, the last 3,000 have been scored at an average of
>> 75.00. This is since 1993.
>
>Indeed,
>makes you realise how poor his ave was prior to this.
Well, I never saw this post coming :-)
cheers,
Mic. (http://netserv.net.au/tiger/)
Cross Purposes Studios (Web & Graphic Design)
Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.
CS
"Z. Skeete" <z...@le.ac.uk> wrote:
>CS wrote:
>(snip...)
>>
>> Lara hasn't got to ten test hundreds yet.
>Man, you were wrong on this count! Lara scored his 10th Test hundred in
>his last test inning against Sri Lanka! Have you short memory?
We don't count mickey mouse test sides.
The Aussies just about destroyed him in oz
last season. He only got that one test hundred
after the series was lost. Lara couldn't get a
hundred when it mattered the most like S Waugh
in this recent test match.
>
>Regard,
>"tito capotito"
CS
>>
>>Against England Bradman scored 19 centuries in 63 innings
>>with a total of 5028 runs.
>Average 89 iirc
Yes brought back a bit in the bodyline series.
Only averaged 56 in that series plus in his last
series in 1948 at age 40 odd only averaged
72. If it wasn't for WWII would have scored thousands
of more runs although he did say in an interview recently
that he would have retired in 1938 but only came back
to tests in 1946 to get the tests playing again after the war.
>>
>>>Take a bow Brian,hoping to see you again in Barbados.
>>
>>Just get your fast bowler to bowl around the wicket like
>>Glen McGrath did which cramped Lara up.
>Unless they can get the bounce which McGrath got I wouldn't assume that'll work.
>Added to which I would hope that Lara has looked at those dismissals and figured
>out what to do.
Tom Moody got him out a couple of times in the one dayers with the
ball coming in then moving away. You just have to have the ability
to move the ball either in or away and you've got him.
Andy Shrimpton
Apart from the fact that Steve Waugh came into the Aussie team when
they were struggling, and at a tender age too. (20 I think). Luckily
the selectors persevered with him, and he has shone throught with his
obvious talents. Most people agree that a batsman matures a bit later
than a bowler, and 20 is young to be thrust into the test arena,
whereas a fast bowler of 20 can get away with a bit more.
I don't think Waugh ever batted lower than 7 tho, however the number
of innings completed is very relevent, and Australia over the last 5
or 6 years has been batting a second time a lot less.
co...@turing.une.edu.au (Colin Lord) wrote:
>afr...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>: Brian Lara has just scored 4000 runs in test cricket,it
>: took him 45 tests.Compare this with Steve Waugh who took
>: 72 tests and Mark Waugh,who took 60 tests.
>:
>: Sachin Tendulkar hasn't scored 4000 runs in 53 tests.
>: Aravinda de Silva hasn't scored 4000 runs in 61 tests.
>Two things to note. One: tests aren't accurate enough, try innings
>and completed innings prefereably. S Waugh batted at 7-9 for a
>while so he may not have much chance to bat twice in many tests.
>Likewise completed innings are a more accurate since you don't
>penalise some who didn't get out.
>Two: Steve Waugh started out as an allrounder, so comparing his
>early tests as an allrounder (he is now a specialist batsman),
>against the early tests of specialist batsman is a bit misleading.
>Colin
>
sfti
Simon J
In article <5pqp91$odm$1...@corolla.OntheNet.com.au>,
wolf...@OnTheNet.com.au (Andy Shrimpton) wrote:
> Apart from the fact that Steve Waugh came into the Aussie team when
> they were struggling, and at a tender age too. (20 I think). Luckily
> the selectors persevered with him, and he has shone throught with his
> obvious talents. Most people agree that a batsman matures a bit later
> than a bowler, and 20 is young to be thrust into the test arena,
> whereas a fast bowler of 20 can get away with a bit more.
>
> I don't think Waugh ever batted lower than 7 tho, however the number
> of innings completed is very relevent, and Australia over the last 5
> or 6 years has been batting a second time a lot less.
Yes he did - at 8 about half a dozen times. Check Howzstat if you don't
believe me.
Cheers,
Simon J.
--
Records of the month - Radiohead - OK Computer
Echo & the Bunnymen - Evergreen
Jules Mann
1. Steve Waugh matured and got better
2. Brian Lara started on fire and has gone downhill
3. Brian Lara has more talent, but way less ticker - and that's what
counts in the big games!!
jules
The Banners
the fact is that on recent form Steve Waugh is the best batsman in the
world. no-one is saying Lara or Tendulkar are bad, just that at the
moment Steve Waugh is better.
Tim Cotsford
Well, here's Mic nitpicking his way through rsc for anything
anti-Australian again. :-)
Mic,
I'm suprised at you, even with that one eye of yours I thought you'd get
it.
Cheers
Tim
DJ Wookie
Steve Waugh's average since 1991 when he was dropped after a poor series
against the Poms and 1992 when he was reinstated for a tough series
against the West Indies and volunteered to bat at number three(!) is
around 75.00. He has been the backbone of a side that lays claims to
greatness but as yet is still too inconsisitent with the top order in
recent months failing consistently he is often in at 3for less than a
hundred and before this the middle order was not as strong. Regardless
of any criticisms made he has far too often scored his runs at crunch
periods in games in the last 4 years:
65* v West Indies on a vicious track the same game as the infamous
confrontation with Big Lips Ambrose
200 v West Indies say no more an innings that with brother Mark wrested
the Frank Worrel trophy back to Australia for teh first time in 20 years
67* v India when the rest of the side failed to reach 30 on a spinning
deck in a classic confrontation with Anil Kumble
And of course the recent hundreds against England which were once again
magnificent efforts.
There are others but I am recalling from memory without reference oh yes
the 170 odd (I think) against South Africa which sealed the 1st test
series victories in union with Blewett (200 odd).
Thus there is little to the argument that Steve Waugh cannot bat, add to
this his fielding ability (rarely drops catches) and his tactical nous
plus his hard nosed toughness and you have an almost complete cricketer
who could reasonably be expected to be among the top 50 or so cricketers
in history and among the top 12 aussies.
As for Brian Lara, I think the jury is still out on this one. There is
no doubt he moved into greatness with his 375 and 501 but since off the
field pressures have rendered his fallible and weak against consistent
well pitched bowling (ala Mcgrath and others). Brian Lara could average
soemthing akin to Bradman if he had the mental game to match his
ability. time will tell if he overcomes this deficiency in a team that
is on the way down ratehr than up.
Any other thoughts
Scott Meehan
Canberra Australia
Michael Cullen
Tim Cotsford <med...@library.usyd.edu.au>, far, far away from here, appears
to have written:
>Well, here's Mic nitpicking his way through rsc for anything
>anti-Australian again. :-)
No need to nitpick. I'd just set up a watch filter for anything with your name
on it :-)
>Mic,
>I'm suprised at you, even with that one eye of yours I thought you'd get
>it.
I did put a smiley on it......
cheers,
Mic. (http://netserv.net.au/tiger/)
Cross Purposes Studios (Web & Graphic Design)
The truth is a variable.
Tim Cotsford
Michael Cullen wrote:
>
> Tim Cotsford <med...@library.usyd.edu.au>, far, far away from here, appears
> to have written:
>
> >Well, here's Mic nitpicking his way through rsc for anything
> >anti-Australian again. :-)
>
> No need to nitpick. I'd just set up a watch filter for anything with your name
> on it :-)
>
And If I happen to say anything like 'well played the Aussies' you'll
delete it.
Personally, I feel the SWaugh/Lara comparison does have some validity.
MWaugh doesn't really deserve to be in this company, unless you're
giving points for style.
Sorry, I know you'll take this as anti-Austtalian, but that's the way I
see it (both eyes open).
> >Mic,
> >I'm suprised at you, even with that one eye of yours I thought you'd get
> >it.
>
> I did put a smiley on it......
>
But not on the one before.......
> cheers,
>
> Mic. (http://netserv.net.au/tiger/)
> Cross Purposes Studios (Web & Graphic Design)
>
> The truth is a variable.
Cheers
Tim