Worst (80s) England XI
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk
I like this thread, and I suppose a 'definitive' XI could be made up by
checking in cricinfo, but off the top of my head various contenders must
be...
1. Bill Athey
2. Rob Bailey
3. Mark Ramprakash
4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
5. Jon Stephenson
6. Craig White
7. Jack Richards (w)
8. Keith Medleycott
9. Les Taylor
10. Alan Igglesden
11. Norman Cowans
Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
played FC cricket again.
Max
Peter M Lamsdale
Peter P Masud
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk wrote:
>I like this thread, and I suppose a 'definitive' XI could be made up by
>checking in cricinfo, but off the top of my head various contenders must
>be...
>
>1. Bill Athey
>2. Rob Bailey
>3. Mark Ramprakash
>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>5. Jon Stephenson
>6. Craig White
>7. Jack Richards (w)
>8. Keith Medleycott
>9. Les Taylor
>10. Alan Igglesden
>11. Norman Cowans
>
>Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
>and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
>but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
>to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
>played FC cricket again.
>
>Max
>
>I like this thread, and I suppose a 'definitive' XI could be made up by
>checking in cricinfo, but off the top of my head various contenders must
>be...
>
>1. Bill Athey
>2. Rob Bailey
>3. Mark Ramprakash
>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>5. Jon Stephenson
>6. Craig White
>7. Jack Richards (w)
>8. Keith Medleycott
>9. Les Taylor
>10. Alan Igglesden
>11. Norman Cowans
>
>Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
>and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
>but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
>to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
>played FC cricket again.
>
>Max
--
Peter P Masud
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
Pma...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
John Hall
In article <DrCps...@uns.bris.ac.uk>, M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk writes
>I like this thread, and I suppose a 'definitive' XI could be made up by
>checking in cricinfo, but off the top of my head various contenders must
>be...
>
>1. Bill Athey
Athey's record wasn't that bad, I think.
>2. Rob Bailey
>3. Mark Ramprakash
>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>5. Jon Stephenson
>6. Craig White
>7. Jack Richards (w)
A competent keeper who has a Test ton against Australia to his credit.
>8. Keith Medleycott
Never played for England in a Test or ODI, though he did go on the 1990
tour of WI.
>9. Les Taylor
>10. Alan Igglesden
>11. Norman Cowans
>
>Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
>and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
>but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
>to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
>played FC cricket again.
It's funny how slow left-armers appear particularly prone to the yips
and crises of confidence, in a way that off-break bowlers don't seem to
be. The names of Fred Swarbrook (Derbyshire and Somerset), Roger Harman
(also Surrey) and even Phil Edmonds (who was once reduced to bowling off
one pace) spring to mind.
--
You can divide people into two categories:
those who divide people into two categories and those who don't
Andy Lamb
It has to be said that both Ramprakashh and Craig White played extremely
well for their respective counties ( indeed this season, White has been
batting and bowling better than he did when he got picked for England
last year), yet looked hopelessly out of place when they made the step up
to interantional cricket. I believe that Ramper's time will come, as he
has immense talent (maybe if/ when he is given the Middlesex captaincy,
he will 'mature as a player'). Craig White will probably still get
chances while Ray Illingworth has anything to do with things, deservedly
or not.
Indeed, White would be in my squad for the Texaco Trophy:
Ally Brown (Surrey)
Nick Knight (Warks)
Graeme Hick (Worcs)
Neil Smith (Warks)
Jason Gallian (Lancs)
Nasser Hussain (Essex) or Graham Thorpe (Surrey)
Craig White (Yorks)
Ronnie Irani (Essex)
Alan Mullally (Leics)
Dermot Reeve (Warks, capt.)
Jack Russell (Glos)
Dominic Cork (Derbys)
Martin McCague (Kent)
OK, so maybe getting Dermot in is far too sensible.
Jonathan Hall, j.h...@uea.ac.uk
Peter Kirk
John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>1. Bill Athey
>
>Athey's record wasn't that bad, I think.
No, it wasn't bad. It was diabolical.
I think you will be fighting a lone battle if you a going to try to
justify Bill Athey's selection for England. If you compare Athey's Test
record against those of his rivals for the openers spot, it doesn't look
very favourable:
Bill Athey 41 Innings 919 runs av 22.97
Chris Broad 44 Innings 1661 runs av 39.54
Tim Robinson 49 Innings 1601 runs av 36.38
Graeme Fowler 37 Innings 1307 runs av 35.32
Of course, these figures don't tell the whole story. Athey was far more
likely to occupy the crease than Fowler and he didn't have the
discipline problems of Chris Broad, but even so, for an opening batsman
his test match average is at least 12 runs short of the required
standard.
Therefore, I think we can conclude that his place in the worst XI of 80s
is won on merit.
John Hall
In article <319a18c3...@news3.news.demon.net>, Peter Kirk
<pe...@pkirk.demon.co.uk> writes
>John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>1. Bill Athey
>>
>>Athey's record wasn't that bad, I think.
>
>No, it wasn't bad. It was diabolical.
>
I'm surprised. I had thought his average would be somwhere in the 30-35
region. So you were right. Looks like he's a banker selection.
--
The graveyards are full of indispensable men.
Charles de Gaulle (1890-1970)
Sadiq Yusuf
In article <Nmomk+Ap...@jhall.demon.co.uk>,
John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <DrCps...@uns.bris.ac.uk>, M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk writes
>>Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
>>and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
>>but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
>>to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
>>played FC cricket again.
>
>It's funny how slow left-armers appear particularly prone to the yips
>and crises of confidence, in a way that off-break bowlers don't seem to
>be. The names of Fred Swarbrook (Derbyshire and Somerset), Roger Harman
>(also Surrey) and even Phil Edmonds (who was once reduced to bowling off
>one pace) spring to mind.
And Maninder Singh - who was so completely shot that he thought
of retiring, and even just stood there and bowled for a little bit in
the Lancashire Leagues. Truly sad, because IMHO he could have been one
of the great ones.
And, of course, Shastri had similar problems as well, late in
his career.
Both the above overcame their problems, but were never really
the same bowlers after that.
Sadiq [ who liked Maninder ] Yusuf
>--
>You can divide people into two categories:
>those who divide people into two categories and those who don't
--
Sadiq Yusuf
si...@iastate.edu
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk
John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <DrCps...@uns.bris.ac.uk>, M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk writes
>>1. Bill Athey
>
>Athey's record wasn't that bad, I think.
>
No, not that bad, and I always expected him to make a good score, as his
technique was so good (and he was an excellent fielder and good OD
player). However after his excellent test hundred vs Pakistan (Lords
1987?), he never got another decent score. Bad luck seemed to foloow him
around. However, I had to choose someone to make up the numbers of more
obvious candidates.
>>2. Rob Bailey
>>3. Mark Ramprakash
>>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>>5. Jon Stephenson
>>6. Craig White
>>7. Jack Richards (w)
>
>A competent keeper who has a Test ton against Australia to his credit.
Yep, but what happened to him? I only picked him because of the general
high quality of English keepers. Bruce French was his direct competitor
at the time, and was for some reason chosen by the press to be perfect,
while Richards was regarded (again by the wonderful and intelligent
British media) as a decent batsman who couldn't keep at all.
>
>>8. Keith Medleycott
>
>Never played for England in a Test or ODI, though he did go on the 1990
>tour of WI.
I qualified this 'selection' below, more as a demonstration of the
debilitating effects of England coaches rather tha a comment on
Medleycott.
<Snip>
>> Very harsh on Medleycott, but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of >> what England's coaches can do to a player - went on tour, lost
>> confidence, got 'yips', almost never played FC cricket again.
>
>It's funny how slow left-armers appear particularly prone to the yips
>and crises of confidence, in a way that off-break bowlers don't seem to
>be. The names of Fred Swarbrook (Derbyshire and Somerset), Roger Harman
>(also Surrey) and even Phil Edmonds (who was once reduced to bowling off
>one pace) spring to mind.
>--
Max
John Hall
In article <DrHyB...@uns.bris.ac.uk>, M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk writes
>John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>7. Jack Richards (w)
>>
>>A competent keeper who has a Test ton against Australia to his credit.
>
>Yep, but what happened to him? I only picked him because of the general
>high quality of English keepers. Bruce French was his direct competitor
>at the time, and was for some reason chosen by the press to be perfect,
>while Richards was regarded (again by the wonderful and intelligent
>British media) as a decent batsman who couldn't keep at all.
I don't know about that. Richards' main problem appears to have been
that he was an awkward customer who got on neither with his team nor the
powers that be. Eventually he gave up first-class cricket when close to
the peak of his career. IIRC, he married his Dutch girlfriend, and went
to live and coach in Holland.
--
You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty.
Sacha Guitry (1885-1957)
Jack Bramah
In article <DrHyB...@uns.bris.ac.uk>, M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk writes
>John Hall <jo...@jhall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
><Snip>
>>>1. Bill Athey
>>
>>Athey's record wasn't that bad, I think.
>>
>
>No, not that bad, and I always expected him to make a good score, as his
>technique was so good (and he was an excellent fielder and good OD
>player). However after his excellent test hundred vs Pakistan (Lords
>1987?), he never got another decent score. Bad luck seemed to foloow him
>around. However, I had to choose someone to make up the numbers of more
>obvious candidates.
>
>>>2. Rob Bailey
>>>3. Mark Ramprakash
>>>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>>>5. Jon Stephenson
>>>6. Craig White
England long enough to be included in a worst 80s team!
>>>7. Jack Richards (w)
>>
>>A competent keeper who has a Test ton against Australia to his credit.
>
>
--
Jack Bramah
Tholian
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk wrote:
>I like this thread, and I suppose a 'definitive' XI could be made up by
>checking in cricinfo, but off the top of my head various contenders must
>be...
>1. Bill Athey
>2. Rob Bailey
>3. Mark Ramprakash
>4. Chris Cowdrey (c!!!!)
>5. Jon Stephenson
>6. Craig White
>7. Jack Richards (w)
>8. Keith Medleycott
>9. Les Taylor
>10. Alan Igglesden
>11. Norman Cowans
>Bit harsh on Iggy and Stephenson, as they have had limited opportunity,
>and Stephenson was only ever a stop-gap anyway. Very harsh on Medleycott,
>but he was 'selected' as a demonstration of what England's coaches can do
>to a player - went on tour, lost confidence, got 'yips', almost never
>played FC cricket again.
Wilf Slack and Tim Curtis should certainly open, and don't forget
Larkins as well, can't fault the middle order but Rhodes, particularly
for his awful tour of Oz should be the keeper, as for bowlers, well
you're spoilt for choice really.
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk
how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (Tholian) wrote:
>
>Wilf Slack and Tim Curtis should certainly open, and don't forget
>Larkins as well, can't fault the middle order but Rhodes, particularly
>for his awful tour of Oz should be the keeper, as for bowlers, well
>you're spoilt for choice really.
>
>
I thought of Slack, but as he was a good bloke and died tragically young,
I left him out on compassionate grounds. Curtis is a 'top quality' choice
for my team, though - I'd forgotten all about him.
I was thinking this morning that the definitive keeper might be Richard
Blakey, whos, as far as I remember, had a dreadful tour of India, 92-93.
Max
HOWZAT
M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk wrote:
>how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (Tholian) wrote:
Blakey was awful, he toured India and Sri Lanka and scored a mere
handful of runs in the matches he played in. I think he had a pretty
torrid time behind the stumps too.
What time is it - Vadertime
---------------------------------------------------------------
VADERTIME
vade...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au
In Article <83251924...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
worst england eleven
1.cwj athey
2.ts curtis
3.w larkins
4.wn slack
5.nh fairbrother
6.md moxon
7.dj capel
8.pw jarvis
9.bn french
10.nd howard
11.ap igglesden
>
HOWZAT
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au wrote:
>worst england eleven
I can't argue on most of them but I don't remember an N D Howard ?
>>
Exepose
Can I throw the names of Chris Smith, Martin Moxon, Tony Pigott and the
terminally unlucky Paul Allot???
Simon J Hodgson
Pablo
>
> >worst england eleven
>
> >1.cwj athey
> >2.ts curtis
> >3.w larkins
> >4.wn slack
> >5.nh fairbrother
> >6.md moxon
> >7.dj capel
> >8.pw jarvis
> >9.bn french
> >10.nd howard
> >11.ap igglesden
>
> I can't argue on most of them but I don't remember an N D Howard ?
> >>
Ditto.
Where's Chris Cowdrey ????
Cheers
PC.
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au
In Article <83270446...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (HOWZAT) writes:
>ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au wrote:
>
>>In Article <83251924...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
>>how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (HOWZAT) writes:
>>>M.J.Ra...@bris.ac.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (Tholian) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Wilf Slack and Tim Curtis should certainly open, and don't forget
>>>>>Larkins as well, can't fault the middle order but Rhodes, particularly
>>>>>for his awful tour of Oz should be the keeper, as for bowlers, well
>>>>>you're spoilt for choice really.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>I thought of Slack, but as he was a good bloke and died tragically young,
>>>>I left him out on compassionate grounds. Curtis is a 'top quality' choice
>>>>for my team, though - I'd forgotten all about him.
>>>
>>>>I was thinking this morning that the definitive keeper might be Richard
>>>>Blakey, whos, as far as I remember, had a dreadful tour of India, 92-93.
>>>
>>>Blakey was awful, he toured India and Sri Lanka and scored a mere
>>>handful of runs in the matches he played in. I think he had a pretty
>>>torrid time behind the stumps too.
>>>
>>>
>>>What time is it - Vadertime
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>VADERTIME
>>>vade...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>1.cwj athey
>>2.ts curtis
>>3.w larkins
>>4.wn slack
>>5.nh fairbrother
>>6.md moxon
>>7.dj capel
>>8.pw jarvis
>>9.bn french
>>10.nd howard
>>11.ap igglesden
>
>I can't argue on most of them but I don't remember an N D Howard ?
>>>
>
him for salisbury then
John Hall
In article <4nu6jm$5...@info.curtin.edu.au>,
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au writes
Howard captained the England tour to India in 1951-2 and played in 4
Tests (his only Tests). This was in the days when the captain had to be
an amateur, and I guess he was the only amateur with captaincy
experience who was able to make the trip. (This may have had something
to do with England appointing a professional, Len Hutton, as captain a
year or so later.)
--
Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
HOWZAT
Pablo <10043...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>>
>> >worst england eleven
>>
>> >1.cwj athey
>> >2.ts curtis
>> >3.w larkins
>> >4.wn slack
>> >5.nh fairbrother
>> >6.md moxon
>> >7.dj capel
>> >8.pw jarvis
>> >9.bn french
>> >10.nd howard
>> >11.ap igglesden
>>
>> I can't argue on most of them but I don't remember an N D Howard ?
>> >>
>Ditto.
>Where's Chris Cowdrey ????
>Cheers
>PC.
he's so crap he didn't make this XI
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au
In Article <83296160...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
howzat shove it up your rear arse
chris cowdrey was not in because he played not many tests compared to some of
them
HOWZAT
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au wrote:
>In Article <83296160...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
>how...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk (HOWZAT) writes:
>>Pablo <10043...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> >worst england eleven
>>>>
>>>> >1.cwj athey
>>>> >2.ts curtis
>>>> >3.w larkins
>>>> >4.wn slack
>>>> >5.nh fairbrother
>>>> >6.md moxon
>>>> >7.dj capel
>>>> >8.pw jarvis
>>>> >9.bn french
>>>> >10.nd howard
>>>> >11.ap igglesden
>>>>
>>>> I can't argue on most of them but I don't remember an N D Howard ?
>>>> >>
>>
>>>Ditto.
>>
>>>Where's Chris Cowdrey ????
>>
>>>Cheers
>>
>>>PC.
>>
>>he's so crap he didn't make this XI
>>
>howzat shove it up your rear arse
That comment on Cowdrey was meant to be a joke, right. This is
supposed to be a humorous thread after all. You are very touchy, jeez
just lighten up. As for you inarticulate, ill-thought comments since
when was there ever a front arse. Get a sense of humour.
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au
In Article <83322041...@bluenoze.demon.co.uk>
but a polite way of saying .....................
>
>
>
>
>
>
HOWZAT
ekoo...@alpha2.curtin.edu.au wrote:
Still doesn't alter the fact you're a humourless tosser, and thick as
pig-shit to boot.