Tests vs. ODIs

Howzzat

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Mar 26, 2012, 7:08:59 PM3/26/12

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OK, so most players claim that Test cricket is the ultimate and the
format they most prefer. Yet most of the retirement planning, long
term team selections, and even the proud moments for players are
centered around the ODI world cup.

Take Tendulkar for instance (just as the latest example - this thread
is not about him). In his latest interviews/press conferences he has
endorsed the supremacy of Test cricket, yet lists the World Cup win as
his most significant achievement. I know the World Cup is special and
all that, but if you really mean what you say about Test cricket then
surely some overseas Test wins should count more that the World Cup?
As an India fan, I would gladly swap the 2011 World Cup for the Test
series wins in the last tours to England and Australia.

Clearly that is not case with the players, despite all the lip service
to Test cricket.

skp

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Mar 26, 2012, 8:08:17 PM3/26/12

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Indeed. I said about the same things in response to one of Bharat's
posts in a recent thread.

SRT: "My dream was to win the WC"; he has never said that "my dream
was for India to be No. 1 in tests"

Sanga was interviewed by Harsha and asked "what would you cherish more
- a WC win or being No. 1 in tests" Answer: WC win

One of the reasons for this is that there is no test championship.
Being ranked No. 1 in tests is likely not as satisfying as being
called "world champions" for 4 years (sorry, Alvey)

I too like tests more than ODIs (though I enjoy watching all 3 forms
of the game). But as an Indian fan, I will take the WC win over
victorious test tours in England and OZ.

skp

tendulkar.com

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Mar 26, 2012, 8:10:53 PM3/26/12

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Just like my other post..... Welcome to my world! Eventually most smart people will get it

jzfredricks

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Mar 26, 2012, 9:09:21 PM3/26/12

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On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:08:59 AM UTC+10, Howzzat wrote:
> OK, so most players claim that Test cricket is the ultimate and the
> format they most prefer.

Yeah they do, don't they?
If you assume both of SRT's positions (Tests are ultimate and the WC win was his most significant) are true, where does that leave us?

Howzzat

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Mar 26, 2012, 10:41:00 PM3/26/12

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In a world full of contradictions?

SRT has won Test series in Pakistan (first time by India), NZ, England
and SL, and been part of a side that reached #1 in Test rankings. I
would have thought that the wins in Pakistan, England, and the #1 Test
rank would be quite significant, perhaps more so than the World Cup -
especially if you rate Tests over ODIs.

Then again, it's not about SRT per se. He is just one of many who do
this - it appears that toeing the Test cricket line is the fashionable
thing to do. Hopefully Warner really means it.

Bharat Rao

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Mar 27, 2012, 7:14:42 AM3/27/12

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On Monday, March 26, 2012 8:08:17 PM UTC-4, skp wrote:

> Indeed. I said about the same things in response to one of Bharat's
> posts in a recent thread.
>
> SRT: "My dream was to win the WC"; he has never said that "my dream
> was for India to be No. 1 in tests"

You do realize that it is possible for SRT to believe Tests are the ultimate "Test" and that Tests are more important to him than ODI's, but at the same time cherish a win in a World Cup tournament more.

#1 in Tests is an artificial thing. Some complex rankings and numbers that no player can figure out -- whereas a tourney is a gladiatorial conquest.

>
> Sanga was interviewed by Harsha and asked "what would you cherish more
> - a WC win or being No. 1 in tests" Answer: WC win
>

OK, Michael Jordon has said that his most significant championship is his NCAA victory with North Carolina as a freshman, not his six NBA titles. Heck at times, he said the most important thing to him was making his high school basketball team after being cut from the Junior Varsity squad. Does that mean he values his college success (or even his high school success) more than his pro brilliance that made him the greatest player in basketball history? Obviously not...

One (specifically Tendulkar) can cherish a victory in a talismanic championship for the joy it brings to him, his teammates, and the entire country, more than two decades of Test cricket, and yet value Tests more... I certainly enjoyed our World Cup win -- just about the only Tests series I know I enjoyed more was the 2001 Ind-Aus series

Don't equate value for "being #1 in Tests" with "I value ODI's more than Tests"

Bharat

Bharat Rao

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Mar 27, 2012, 7:19:18 AM3/27/12

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I think it is possible to hold both positions with no contradictions.

Tests are ultimate, but success is defined over a long time (in SRT's case, over 2 decades). ODI's are more ephemeral, but have a 4-yearly gladiatorial conquest, mano-a-mano, that is the pinnacle of the form of the game.

It is possible -- completely consistently -- to say: "Tests are more important to me than ODI's by a long margin" and "My World Cup win was the most significant." There is no analog to the World Cup in Tests -- the #1 ranking is an artificial, numbers-based, complex scoring system; and by the very nature of the game, having a Test K-O would not work.

Bharat [who things the World Cup win was among the top-10 cricketing achievements for India in his lifetime; and yes the 83 World Cup also makes the list, but the T20 doesn't]

jzfredricks

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Mar 27, 2012, 7:45:11 AM3/27/12

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/agree
Additionally I'll give someone like SRT the BoD and assume he's being honest when he says both things.
To say he's fibbing just to be fashionable is a bit unfair.

Bharat Rao

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Mar 27, 2012, 7:48:44 AM3/27/12

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On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:19:18 AM UTC-4, Bharat Rao wrote:

> Tests are ultimate, but success is defined over a long time (in SRT's case, over 2 decades). ODI's are more ephemeral, but have a 4-yearly gladiatorial conquest, mano-a-mano, that is the pinnacle of the form of the game.
>

Should read "of THAT form of the game"

Bharat

PlaySafe

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Mar 27, 2012, 9:16:07 AM3/27/12

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On Tuesday, 27 March 2012 04:08:59 UTC+5, Howzzat wrote:

> As an India fan, I would gladly swap the 2011 World Cup for the Test
> series wins in the last tours to England and Australia.
>

Yes they may swap but because of failure on those tours, they have no other option. There were good performances overseas but they were tests and not complete series (I am only counting SA, AUS and Eng bcz of their team strength and conditions).

Vijay Sharma

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Mar 27, 2012, 1:36:38 PM3/27/12

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I get the feeling you are getting judgmental about players' feelings. Either that or you live in a world of black and white and do not recognize the inherent contradictions that all of life is woven with

Let's take Sachin's case - he has said this on numerous occasions that he took up the bat and dreamt of playing for India when he saw Kapil Dev lift the World Cup in 83. And quite naturally also dreamt that he would one day lift the world cup. He was around 10 years old then. I'd guess that at that age he wasn't really very aware of the nuances of the different formats of cricket to feel winning the World Cup should be less cherished than winning a Test series in Australia.

Then he started playing gully cricket and his brother made him take it up seriously. Then he played 2 day games and in a few years time started playing 3 day cricket as well. One fine day he started playing 5 day cricket and along the way he realized that 5 day cricket is more challenging than 50 over cricket. But does it mean he needs to downgrade his childhood dream of lifting the World Cup? Why? For what purpose?

Of course when you accomplish your first true dream/ambition in life even if it is on your death bed you will have a sense of elation that is indescribable. This is what keeps the innocence of the child in you intact.

So what exactly is wrong in opining that the World Cup victory is more cherished than a series win in England or Aus despite believing that Test cricket is a sterner test of one's skills and capabilities?

I think this is a non-issue

Andrew Dunford

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Mar 27, 2012, 3:33:39 PM3/27/12

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"jzfredricks" <jzfre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9434.233.1332848711932.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbbnv8...

Benefit of the doubt goes to the batsman yet again...

Andrew

Andrew Dunford

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Mar 27, 2012, 3:35:28 PM3/27/12

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"Howzzat" <shgu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01b6917c-c6c7-4965...@s9g2000pba.googlegroups.com...

I take this to mean there is no single experience in Test match cricket that
is similar to all the teams gathering in one place and playing a tournament.
The two statements don't seem contradictory at all to me.

Andrew

Vijay Sharma

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Mar 28, 2012, 10:24:59 AM3/28/12

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Apparently, Rahul Dravid (yes the same man who made his mark in Test cricket) told his long time team-mate Saurav Ganguly, that he finds (blasphemy coming up) T20 as his "best enjoyed" format!!!!!

Tendlya.com is happy, the closet agenda-ist is not.

Watch between 3:59 and 4:08 in this video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVn3BsYYDuw

Bob Dubery

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Mar 29, 2012, 1:27:01 AM3/29/12

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On Mar 27, 9:35 pm, "Andrew Dunford" <adunf...@artifax.net> wrote:

> I take this to mean there is no single experience in Test match cricket that
> is similar to all the teams gathering in one place and playing a tournament.
> The two statements don't seem contradictory at all to me.

Plus the ODIs are where the money is going to be made.

But yes, planning to play on until the end of the next WCC doesn't
mean that Test cricket is not the greater examination of skill.