Extract: Guha on Lions of the Punjab - in Delhi
Ajit Agarkar
in the East" when Punjabi Cricketers were being discussed the other
day. This comes from Chapter 3 of the 1992 edition, entitled "The
Lions of Punjab - In Delhi". Sadiq recently extracted the section on
Bishen Singh Bedi in the book (at http://tinyurl.com/2wx2u), so
reproducing here it would be redundant. I hope this is of interest to
some.
By the way, CiL, is it time to set up a Guha archive of stuff he's
written that's on rsc? Something to do over the weekend for you maybe?
---
The real transformation in Delhi cricket, however, occurred only
through an infusion of talent from outside the capital. As is well
known, the economy of India's capital city rests on an edifice
painstakingly built by post-Partition migrants from Punjab. But there
has been, in recent years, another migration from Punjab, whose impact
on the capital's cricket has been even more momentous. Led by Bishen
Singh Bedi, the stream of Punjabi exiles which has nourished Delhi
includes the two Amarnaths - Mohinder and Surinder - and Madan Lal. A
fifth exile, welcomed as eagerly in the Kotla and whose contribution
to Delhi cricket has been as critical, came from the west -
Maharashtra's Chetan Chauhan. (Chauhan, a cricketer with an acute
sense of history, could point out that he drew inspiration from an
even earlier migration - for the Marathas had begun exploring around
Delhi as long ago as the eighteenth century!)
...
There was no more loyal follower than that doughty all-rounder, Madan
Lal Sharma. Like his mentor, Madan Lal studied at the PBN Higher
Secondary School and Hindu College at Amritsar, where he was shaped by
Bedi's own coach, Gian Prakash. At the international level, Madan
earned a reputation, not wholly undeserved, for retreating towards
square leg against fast bowling; on the slower Indian wickets, and
against spin, he was an altogether different proposition. His Ranji
Trophy record speaks for itself, and on more than one occasion, with
Delhi behind on the first innings, Madan has led a victorious
fightback with both bat and ball.
Although he once took five wickets in an innings of a miserably cold
Test at Christchurch, Madan's successes in Test cricket were mostly on
the slower (and dustier) Indian wickets. Along with Kapil Dev he
bowled India to victory on the last day of a Bombay Test, when, in
foxing Keith Fletcher's Englishmen with a spell of ever lower
off-cutters, he put to good use the experience of playing alongside
Abid Ali in his first days as an international player. He probably
treasures most the part he played in India's last Test victory against
England, at Leeds in 1986. With Chetan Sharma injured, the Indian
selectors were unwilling to blood the inexperienced Manoj Prabhakar
and called up Madan from the Lancashire Leagues. At the close of the
first day, India were precariously placed at 235 for 9, and the
English press rubbed their hands in glee at what Gower, Gatting and
company would do to an attack which included 'dear old Madan Lal'.
Madan responded magnificently, clean bowling Slack and Smith and, with
Kapil again, helping India to a first innings lead of over a hundred,
the platform for a comfortable victory. The ageless all-rounder also
played two vital innings of twenty odd in this low scoring match, and
even effected a brilliant run out.
Madan was here carrying on a remarkable tradition of Indian touring
teams in England calling on cricketers from professional duties in
Lancashire. This tradition started in 1936 when Amar Singh - the first
Indian professional to play in the Lancashire Leagues - was released
by his club, Colne, to lead India's attack in the three Tests of that
year. Sixteen years later, Vinoo Mankad's club, Rochdale, released him
to play in the Lord's Test after India had been soundly beaten in the
first Test at Headingley. (In a game known to posterity simply as
Mankad's match, Vinoo scored 72 and 184 opening the batting, and took
5 for 196 in 73 overs in England's first innings.) Then, in 1971, the
wicketkeeper-batsman Farokh Engineer was requisitioned - not from the
Leagues but from the Lancashire County Cricket Club itself - to play a
crucial role in India's first series win in England. Amar Singh,
Mankad, Engineer: three names to conjure with, and while Madan Lal
isn't in the same league as a cricketer, no one had a bigger heart.
In this most violent of centuries, war and civil strife have
frequently uprooted entire communities. In our own subcontinent,
millions of Punjabis, Sindhis and Bengalis have had to rebuild their
lives, sometimes more than once, literally from scratch. But Madan
Lal's long-time new ball partner for Delhi, Mohinder Amarnath, has had
to remake his Test career no less than seven times. For him, the whims
of the Indian cricket selectors have been as unpredictable and cruel
as the ironies of history against which his fellow Punjabis have so
heroically battled.
Mohinder was first picked for India as an eighteen-year-old, in the
last Test of the series of 1969-70 against Bill Lawry's Australians.
Despite bowling and batting with a maturity well beyond his years, he
did not play another Test till 1976. In between, he had been picked
for the 1971 tour of England, only to be sidelined when Engineer's
unavailability for the county matches forced the selectors to take
along Kirmani as the third wicket-keeper. When at last picked, for the
twin tour of NZ and the WI, Mohinder batted impressively in the middle
order. Yet one failure at Delhi against England next winter, and he
was dropped for the rest of the series. Recalled for the tour of
Australia in 1977-8, he scored one hundred and three fifties, batting
at number 3. For older Australians, his hooking of Jeff Thomson
brought back memories of his father, who, thirty years earlier, had
played a series of memorable innings against the state sides (though
unlike the Lala, Mohinder came good in Test matches as well).
His penchant for the hook, however, cost Mohinder dearly in the three
Test series in Pakistan the next winter. Dropped for the first four
matches of the home series against a West Indies side badly truncated
by Kerry Packer, he made a century when recalled for the Kanpur Test.
Early on in next summer's tour of England, he was laid out cold by
Richard Hadlee. By now, he had acquired a reputation for being
uncertain against the bouncer. THe helmet had just come into vogue,
but the Lala angrily refused to allow his son to wear one.
Accordingly, he appeared in the last Test against Australia in Bombay
in 1979 wearing a 'sola topee'. When Rodney Hogg predictably greeted
him with a bouncer, Mohinder trod on his wicket, also losing his
'topee' in the process.
At the time, it seemed that the Bombay fiasco had effectively finished
the younger Amarnath's international career. Yet he continued to pile
up the runs in domestic cricket, and three years later found himself
in the train to Pakistan. By this time the Lala had thankfully
relented, and the helmet played no mean part in Mohinder's resounding
success. With six hundred runs in that series (which India lost 3-0)
and a similar aggregate in the series in the Caribbean that followed,
Mohinder had established himself as the best player of fast bowling in
the world. He went on to star with both bat and ball in India's World
Cup win, claiming man of the match awards in semi-final and final. Yet
on his return he inexplicably lost form, scoring but one run in 6
innings against the West Indians (This was the one occasion on which
Mohinder deserved to be dropped, and he was). Since then, he continued
to be treated as a yo-yo - recalled for the 1986 tour of England,
dropped for next year's World Cup, reinstated for the home series
agaisnt the West Indies, dropped again the following winter (when his
outburst against the selectors cooked his goose), surprisingly
recalled for the Nehru Cup in 1989, and then dropped again, this time
for good.
In the midst of his most famous comeback, in Pakistan in 1982-3,
Mohinder found himself at the wicket with India 10 for 2, both
Gavaskar and Arun Lal having fallen to the rampaging Imran. In one
glorious moment, Imran bounced, and Mohinder swung him over square leg
for six. His father, as usual the expert on Pakistani television, was
beside himself with joy, exclaiming, 'they dropped the boy for three
years saying he can't play fast bowling'. But this mastery of Imran
and the awesome West Indians should not make us forget that he is a
wonderful player of spin bowling as well, inheriting his father's
immaculate footwork. Connoisseurs will remember his two lofted drives
off Larry Gomes in the World Cup final of 1983, when he countered the
off-spinner's drift towards the on and 3-6 field by dancing down and
away from the wicket to strike the ball through the comparatively
untenanted off-side. Mohinder's virtuosity was underscored when that
honest craftsman Yashpal Sharma tried the same shot, only to spoon up
an easy catch to cover.
In the history of Indian Cricket, Mohinder was indisputably the most
effective 'breach stopper' not to hail from Bombay. When Mohinder
walked in to bat after the fall of an early wicket or two in a Test
match, a wave of reassurance swept over his countrymen. As he emerged
from the pavilion, 'Jimmy' Amarnath always looked over his shoulder
into the sun - a habit characteristic of other Northern players like
Chetan Chauhan and Navjyot Sidhu, but one I have never seen resorted
to by batsmen from Bombay or the South. Characteristic, too, was the
man's gardening style. Meeting the first ball firmly in the middle of
the bat, he would walk a few steps, and then, with the handle held
loose, put down the offending pieces of turf with the blade at right
angles, rather than parallel to the wicket.
Mohinder was probably as good a batsman at forty - when he was removed
from the Indian side on account of his age - as he had been at any
stage of his career. In fact, as he grew older his range of strokes
widened. Starting out as an on-side player, in time he developed a
stunning array of off-side strokes. Like other Indian batsmen (notably
Kapil Dev), he exacted a heavy toll off Abdul Qadir, delighting in
hitting the wrist-spinner's googly, inside out, over extra cover.
Mohinder's batting gifts were without a doubt inherited from the
father. Fifty years before the son scored six hundred runs in a series
against the feared West Indies pace quartet, the Lala hit a brilliant
hundred in the final of the Moin-ud-Dowla tournament in Hyderabad,
displaying a complete mastery over the opposing team's spearhead,
Learie Constantine. (Constantine, who bowled bodyline in that match,
was so impressed by Amarnath's batting that he invited him to take his
place as club professional with Nelson in the Lancashire League.)
Again, like his father Mohinder bowled sharp inswingers off a six-step
run. Only their temperaments were different. Whereas his middle son,
at least until row with the selectors in 1988, had a most equable
manner, the Lala was always (in Mushtaq Ali's wonderful words) 'quick
to love and quick to fight.'
For all his success in international cricket, Mohinder has remained in
awe of his father. When he and his brother Surinder played for Delhi
at Ferozeshah Kotla, the Lala seldom failed to be at the ground. As
one of the brothers got out, the father, thoughtfully puffing at his
pipe, would follow him into the dressing room. After the Lala would
re-emerge, wild rumours would begin circulating among the crowd.
'Tumne suna kya hua? Lalaji ne ek thappad mara bete ko!' (Did you hear
what happened? The Lala slapped his son for that bad shot.) Of such
flimsy evidence are cricket tales spun, but the boys' devotion to
their father was real. When Mohinder finally played a Test at Lord's,
he was sought out by the great Denis Compton. 'Did you know', Compton
told Mohinder, 'that I played against your father in 1946, and he
bowled me for a duck'. 'Yes', replied the son, 'I have often heard
about that'. As the writer Robin Marlar observed, this exchange tells
us a great deal about all three men - Compton's generosity, the Lala's
pride and his son's devotion.
There is another delightful tale from that 1946 England tour which
illustrates the elder Amarnath's pride in his craft. In the match
against Somerset, the Lala bowled a series of probing maiden overs to
one of the fiercest hitters then in the game, Harold Gimblett. At
length the exasperated Gimblett asked the Lala: 'Don't you ever bowl a
half volley'. 'Oh yes', replied Amarnath, 'I bowled one in 1940'.
It was only just that Mohinders' greatest innings were played in
Pakistan. For the Lala is held in the highest esteem in Lahore,
Karachi and a dozen other cricketing cities there, which he graced in
pre-Partition days. A wonderful story is told of the arrival of the
1978 Indian team, the first to tour Pakistan in twenty-three years. As
the team (which included both Mohinder and Surinder) and its entourage
got off the plane, it was met on the tarmac by a bus and a Toyota. As
the cricketers and journalists strolled towards the bus, one man
strode imperiously towards the car. This was the team's manager,
Fathehsinghrao Gaekwad, in his time the ruler of Baroda, art
collector, wild-life enthusiast, Member of Parliament and a column of
the international jet set. Not surprisingly, the prince assumed the
car to be at his disposal. As he approached the Toyota however, he was
shooed away by its liveried chauffeur, who pointed towards the bus and
firmly said: 'Tum udhar jao. Ye siraf Lala Saheb ke liye hai' (You go
there. This is only for the Lala). [Guha owes this story to Kishore
Bhimani, circket correspondent of 'The Statesman']
In character and in cricketing styles, Mohinder and his brother
Surinder were as dissimilar as curry and rice (but, as Cardus once
remarked of Merchant and Mushtaq Ali, just as effective in
combination). In the course of their long and distinguished careers,
the brothers batted numbers 3 and 4 for Punjab Schools, Indian
Schoolboys, Guru Nanak Dev University, Punjab, Delhi and North Zone.
Surinder won lasting fame as captain of an outstanding Indian
schoolboys side which included Eknath Solkar, Syed Kirmani and
Dipankar Sarkar, hitting two sixes when his side required ten runs to
win off the last two balls of a Lord's international. Where Mohinder
was affable and outgoing, Surinder kept very much to himself. Not a
natural left hander but brought up by his canny father to be one,
Surinder's most productive strokes were the cut and the pull. (In
contrast, Mohinder's game is founded more classically on the drive.)
After a century on debut, his Test record was by no means
undistinguished - he was one of the few players to emerge with any
credit from the series India lost against England in 1976-7 and
Pakistan in 1978 - and he could justifiably feel shortchanged by the
selectors. Mohinder certainly thought so. Ever since the most famous
of his comebacks in 1982, Mohinder, while on the field, sported the
red handkerchief which Surinder, and the Lala before him, always had
sticking out of a side pocket, as if to say 'this one is for my
brother, too'.
TO precede the Amarnaths in an all-time Delhi side we can do worse
than choose Vijay Mehra, sure in defence; and that member of a
distinguished cricketing family, Akash Lal, who was equally sure in
attac (both Mehra and Akash, like Bedi and company, were migrants from
Punjab). Althouhg the choice is not easy, I prefer the combination of
an unorthodox defensive opener, Chetan Chauhan, and an unorthodox
attacking opener, Raman Lamba - the latter snuffs out the challenge of
his cousin and namesake, Vinay Lamba.
...
Now to the bowling. Madan would be ably partnered by Rajinder Pal, the
Hindu College Express who came to the top at a time when the Indian
selectors set store exclusively by spin. Poor 'Pali' played only one
Test, in which Tiger Pataudi allowed him the luxury of three overs.
Fortunately, his services to Indian Cricket didn't end there - for he
ended his playing days with Haryana, passing on his enormous knowledge
of swing and cut to an eager young pupil, Kapil Dev.
Like Bombay, Delhi have been able to call upon a succession of
outstanding left-arm spinners. My first college captain and former
captain of Indian Schoolboys, Praveen Oberoi, found his way into the
Delhi Ranji team blocked by Bedi and the equally formidable Rajinder
Goel. Fortunately for Oberoi, Goel moved shortly afterwards to Haryan,
but by then he had played a decade with Delhi. Flatter through the air
but having even more prodigious powers of spin, Goel was harder to get
after than the Sardar and unplayable on a crumbling wicket. In
characteristically generous recognition of these skills, Bedi often
brought on Goel first change - that is, before himself - for both
Delhi and North Zone. FOr my money, the leading wicket-taker in the
history of the Ranji Trophy must be preferred to the Bedi clone,
Maninder Singh [Aditya: That's harsh], for the second spinner's spot
in an all-time Delhi XI.
...
An all time Delhi eleven, composed almost equally of university stars
and migrants from the Punjab, is offered below. But if you want to
replace Saxena with Sood, or Lamba with Akash Lal - as I nearly did
in the proofs of this book - I shall not mind in the least.
1. CPS Chauhan
2. R Lamba
3. S Amarnath
4. M Amarnath
5. R Saxena
6. P Bhandari
7. S Madan Lal
8. S Khanna (wicket-keeper)
9. R Pal
10. BS Bedi (captain)
11. R Goel
12th man: Maninder Singh
With the magnificent exception of Chetan Pratap Singh Chauhan, this
then is an all-Punjabi XI, a befitting tribute to the enterprise and
resourcefulness of the city's leading community. And with the
exception of perhaps the most modest cricketer who ever lived,
Rajinder Goel, all have captained Delhi at one time or another. But
there is no dispute about who is in charge here. Bedi early on
acquired the sobriquet of 'Paaji' [Elder Brother], both as a mark of
respect and to distinguish him from the eminence grise of Delhi
Cricket, Ram Prakash Mehra 'Shahji' [Honoured Sir]. While the
seemingly indestructible Shahji passed away a few years ago, Paaji
will hopefully be with us for some time yet. Meanwhile, let us
celebrate him not only as cricketer but as human being. [Larry, are
you hearing this?] Pataudi once said of Bedi that 'he is the only
cricketer of my acquaintance who spends more money on others than
other spend on him'. In these post-Packer days, this is surely one of
the most sincere tributes one cricketer can pay another.
---
Phew. If anyone's still reading, I wonder if it's time to revise the
above XI. Chopra probably hasn't done enough to find a spot, but
Sehwag's credentials look like they might surpass Saxena's or
Bhandari's in the middle order, if not Raman Lamba's. Harbhajan may be
about ready to replace Rajinder Goel, too.
Reading this again, I'm struck by how little Mohinder Amarnath is
mentioned nowadays. Really a freak career, with heights and depths
that seem quite amazing.
Also, I'm not sure what Guha's qualification criteria is, but Pataudi
did, as far as I know, play some Cricket for Delhi. He's in his
Hyderabad XI rather than the Delhi team. I wonder why - perhaps his
style of Cricket was more suited to Hyderabad, and he did play for
Hyderabad for a longer period, I guess.
Aditya [ Growing extremely fond of Punjabis. ] Basrur
Anonymous
CiL
Agarkar) wrote:
> In one
>glorious moment, Imran bounced, and Mohinder swung him over square leg
>for six. His father, as usual the expert on Pakistani television, was
>beside himself with joy, exclaiming, 'they dropped the boy for three
>years saying he can't play fast bowling'. But this mastery of Imran
>and the awesome West Indians should not make us forget that he is a
>wonderful player of spin bowling as well, inheriting his father's
>immaculate footwork. Connoisseurs will remember his two lofted drives
>off Larry Gomes in the World Cup final of 1983, when he countered the
>off-spinner's drift towards the on and 3-6 field by dancing down and
>away from the wicket to strike the ball through the comparatively
>untenanted off-side. Mohinder's virtuosity
<Snip with Thanx to Aditya for typing out a fab writeup>
(others with some good books, do type out extracts, Lindsay?>
Jimmy was fab against spin, I rmbr shots n more like em described
above and in his lazy way.
I used to mimic his stance quite well at galli cricket , his lazy sort
of movement and also his down the wicket dance (of course never with
the same result)
his lazy slow swagger, his walk up to the middle of the pitch to tap n
gardening, then he swoop down and with his left hand , right leg
slightly lifted in air, pick some dirt and throw it away carefully
outside the strip, and walk back in his lazy swagger vein
and while waiting for the bowler to go up to his mark he wud stand
adjacent to stumps, with his weight on his left leg, he wud be sort of
leaning toward his left, both hands on the handle of the bat which
would be raised and rested against his right shoulder, his face not
reflecting any emotion, and now and then he would take his left hand
out and keep checking and pushing the red hankerchief in his left
trouser pocket. used to keep pushing his already short sleeves up n
up!
when he had his open stance, his left foot will first move a bit
forward n in line, and then he would usually lunge forward or if he
sees a short one coming, then throw his weight back and that famous
hook of jimmy would result.
And who in the 80s can forget his bowling action, that slow run to the
wicket, seemed an eternity before he would arrive.
Truly one of India's greatest ever cricketers.
CiL
++++++++
Jeff Dujon, who finished many a day’s work with bruised palms and sore
hips keeping wickets to greats from Andy Roberts to Courtney Walsh,
puts Mohinder Amarnath in the top bracket of batsmen who handled the
West Indian pace attack with confidence.
“In 1983, Mohinder Amarnath was very good. He had great powers of
concentration and was very brave,” Dujon said, clubbing Mohinder with
Allan Border, Allan Lamb and Sunil Gavaskar.
++++++++++
==============
++++++++++
My dad and my brother travelled with me to Madras as dad was covering
the match on the radio. I was anxious to know who would be picked for
the final eleven, Surinder or me, though both of us would have been
equally happy for the other. I was informed the day before the match
that I would be playing. I was sharing the room with Michael Dalvi. I
was nervous and excited at the thought of facing the crowd at Chepauk.
I could not say much to Dalvi as he only spoke in English. I kept
tossing and turning the whole night, whilst Dalvi slept, snoring
unconcernedly. My mind was too active and I could not fall asleep. May
be all youngsters go through this.
The sun rose and I got out of bed, got ready and went to the ground. I
was to open the bowling with Eknath Solkar. I only got four overs in
the first innings. I was advised not to shine the ball as the captain
wanted the spinners to come on as early as possible. When the batting
order was given, I found that I was batting No.9, after S.
Venkataraghavan. I was picked as an all-rounder and had expected to
bat higher in the batting order. I made 16 runs and to my horror ran
out Venkataraghavan. I can still remember him glaring at me as he
walked back to the pavilion. However all he said later was that, I
should not have gone for the run.
During the second innings once again I was told not to shine the ball.
At the start of my second over, I knew that was the only chance I had
and wickets were not easy to get on the slow tracks. I bowled one
outside the off stump, which came in sharply and uprooted the middle
stump. There was a sudden silence as both crowd and players were
stunned. I was ecstatic.
The team then realised that Keith Stackpole was out and they rushed to
hug me and the crowd went crazy with their applause. Then came Ian
Chappell. I bowled an inswinger and he was out played on. After that,
I bowled unchanged for 24 overs, at that time, an unbelievable thing,
as medium pacers were not supposed to bowl so many overs. We lost the
Test but I remember my two wickets.
I was told later that dad was on the air when I got my first wicket
and he nearly cried on the radio!
From
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=Pine.GSO.4.10.10008272330470.12597-100000%40ux5.cso.uiuc.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
+++++++++++++
+++++++ V Ramnarayan +++++++++
Mohinder Amarnath's bravery in West Indies and Pakistan have to be
uppermost in the minds of anyone who followed his extraordinary saga,
but they cannot eclipse the many fine innings he played in Australia
in 1977-1978, when Keith Miller compared his batting to that of South
African genius Barry Richards.
+++++++++++
+++++++++ Haigh+++++
Jimmy made himself a still greater target. He batted, as his father
demanded, with a flagrant disregard for danger. In an era replete with
fast bowling and unrestricted in use of the bouncer, he never stopped
hooking - despite many incentives to do so. He received a hairline
fracture of the skull from Richard Hadlee, was knocked unconscious by
Imran Khan, had teeth knocked out by Malcolm Marshall and was hit in
the jaw so painfully by Jeff Thomson in Perth that he could eat only
ice cream for lunch. "What separated Jimmy from the others," Michael
Holding said, "was his great ability to withstand pain . . . A fast
bowler knows when a batsman is in pain. But Jimmy would stand up and
continue."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/05/1070351783186.html
++++++
Amol Cricketwallah
>
> Mohinder was probably as good a batsman at forty - when he was removed
> from the Indian side on account of his age - as he had been at any
> stage of his career. In fact, as he grew older his range of strokes
> widened. Starting out as an on-side player, in time he developed a
> stunning array of off-side strokes. Like other Indian batsmen (notably
> Kapil Dev), he exacted a heavy toll off Abdul Qadir, delighting in
> hitting the wrist-spinner's googly, inside out, over extra cover.
>
Guha doesnt know this, of course - or didnt when he wrote the book
at any rate. But both Gavaskar and Mohinder would pick Qadir's googly
off his hand, and on doing so would promptly yell out "Googles!" -
and then come dancing down the track and hit it inside-out thru or
over extra-cover for four :-)
This apparently happened repeatedly on the Indian tour of Pakistan -
a tour where there was little else to amuse or please the Indians on
the field, in general. Finally Qadir supposedly went up to Gavaskar
and Mohinder while they were chatting in the middle at the end of an
over, and told them "Maar na hai to chahe maaro. Par yeh 'Googles' keh
kar be-izzat mat karo". (One of my favourite India/Pak war stories,
that is).
>
> Like Bombay, Delhi have been able to call upon a succession of
> outstanding left-arm spinners. My first college captain and former
> captain of Indian Schoolboys, Praveen Oberoi, found his way into the
> Delhi Ranji team blocked by Bedi and the equally formidable Rajinder
> Goel. Fortunately for Oberoi, Goel moved shortly afterwards to Haryan,
> but by then he had played a decade with Delhi. Flatter through the air
> but having even more prodigious powers of spin, Goel was harder to get
> after than the Sardar and unplayable on a crumbling wicket. In
> characteristically generous recognition of these skills, Bedi often
> brought on Goel first change - that is, before himself - for both
> Delhi and North Zone. FOr my money, the leading wicket-taker in the
> history of the Ranji Trophy must be preferred to the Bedi clone,
> Maninder Singh [Aditya: That's harsh], for the second spinner's spot
> in an all-time Delhi XI.
>
What's harsh? That Maninder is considered a Bedi-clone (which would
actually be a huge compliment)? Or that Goel is picked ahead of him
for an all-time XI (which is also something I personally agree with,
anyway)?
>
> ---
>
> Phew. If anyone's still reading, I wonder if it's time to revise the
> above XI. Chopra probably hasn't done enough to find a spot, but
> Sehwag's credentials look like they might surpass Saxena's or
> Bhandari's in the middle order, if not Raman Lamba's. Harbhajan may be
> about ready to replace Rajinder Goel, too.
>
Chopra hasnt done nearly enough to find a spot - if a spot were to
open up, anyway, it ought to go to Gambhir rather than Chopra. It is
probably only thru the capriciousness of the Indian selectors that
Gambhir lags behind Chopra at the national level anyway - for most
Delhi-fans or followers, there is no question who has been the more
valuable opener. Sehwag deserves a go in the middle-order for sure,
or even at opener if the need arises - and he has earned a spot
already. (Someone like KP Bhaskar might have as well).
And Harby wouldnt replace Goel - apart from ability, which may or
may not be worth a debate, Harby does not and has never played for
Delhi in his life, and probably never will. He is a Punjab born
and bred guy who has stuck with Punjab all his cricketing life, and
probably always will (sort of like Sidhu, Yuvraj etc probably
will too). Sharandeep Singh is the off-spinning international
who has now moved from Punjab to Delhi - but I personally would not
ever consider picking him ahead of Goel for an all-time XI.
Sadiq [ Sehwag might be the first decent player Delhi has produced :-)] Yusuf
CiL
Cricketwallah) wrote:
>Guha doesnt know this, of course - or didnt when he wrote the book
>at any rate. But both Gavaskar and Mohinder would pick Qadir's googly
>off his hand, and on doing so would promptly yell out "Googles!" -
>and then come dancing down the track and hit it inside-out thru or
>over extra-cover for four :-)
>
>This apparently happened repeatedly on the Indian tour of Pakistan -
>a tour where there was little else to amuse or please the Indians on
>the field, in general. Finally Qadir supposedly went up to Gavaskar
>and Mohinder while they were chatting in the middle at the end of an
>over, and told them "Maar na hai to chahe maaro. Par yeh 'Googles' keh
>kar be-izzat mat karo". (One of my favourite India/Pak war stories,
>that is).
yep, I meant to write in my post and I forgot as I came at the end of
that long post of mine!
> "Maar na hai to chahe maaro. Par yeh 'Googles' keh
>kar be-izzat mat karo".
since its a cricketing anecdote, let me translate it...
qadir upon being hit by SMG n Jimmy who would spot his googlies and
yell out 'Googlies'! and then hit it, walked up to them and said
-
If you want to hit, do hit, but please don't embarrass me by yelling
'googlies'!
-
xss
> fastestod...@yahoo.co.uk (Ajit Agarkar) wrote in message news:<1d8c240f.04022...@posting.google.com>...
>
Oh dear! We're going to have Pranshu go bananas at
that one. I fully expect four pages of embittered
prose.
s.[who wouldn't call Sehwag decent himself]
Sandaas
> What's harsh? That Maninder is considered a Bedi-clone (which would
> actually be a huge compliment)? Or that Goel is picked ahead of him
> for an all-time XI (which is also something I personally agree with,
> anyway)?
Well, I'd resent being called a clone, no matter how good the person I
was supposedly cloning was. It's something of a compliment, yes, but
suggests a lack of individuality, guile and intelligence when bowling
in my view. Of course, most teams would love a Bedi-clone. Fast
bowlers tend to clone each other often. Lillee modelled himself on Ray
Lindwall apparently. Hadlee in turn aspired to copy Dennis Lillee -
and as a medium-fast (as opposed to an out and out fast bowler)
bowler, probably surpassed him. I don't know who Glenn McGrath sees as
a role model, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Hadlee. But each
has been different in turn with their own vagaries and inflections and
traits. From what I've seen of Hadlee's bowling, he looked much cooler
and more collected than McGrath appears to nowadays.
Similarly Sehwag is often called a Tendulkar clone, which I don't
think is especially fair on either Sehwag or Tendulkar. Their builds
are similar perhaps, but they're rather different batsmen,
particularly in the way they deal with fast bowling and high-quality
spin. The new model Tendulkar - the guy who played that big knock at
Sydney - was quite different from the Sehwag who hit 195. Both are
very useful, but the clone comment is a bit of a copout IMHO.
> Chopra hasnt done nearly enough to find a spot - if a spot were to
> open up, anyway, it ought to go to Gambhir rather than Chopra. It is
> probably only thru the capriciousness of the Indian selectors that
> Gambhir lags behind Chopra at the national level anyway - for most
> Delhi-fans or followers, there is no question who has been the more
> valuable opener. Sehwag deserves a go in the middle-order for sure,
> or even at opener if the need arises - and he has earned a spot
> already. (Someone like KP Bhaskar might have as well).
Yeah, I've often wondered about Gambhir over the past few months.
(Well, not that often. I've been wondering about other things too of
more direct relevance to my life, but Gambhir gets a thought when I'm
not thinking about starlets or pretty medical students.) From what you
were writing last year, it seemed as though Chopra was in favour
because of a stellar year in the Ranjis and would have gone on the A
tour of England if it hadn't been for his injury. In the event, I
guess missing the A tour probably helped him out as no-one appeared to
stake his claim to open there especially strongly - the top three or
four guys all had decent performances, no-one really stood out from
the pack. I guess the mindset may also be that Chopra's more dogged
style complements Sehwag better. I haven't seen any of Gambhir, but
from reports, it seems as though he's a more attacking player. I
suppose he's now in the queue of opening hopefuls if and when a spot
becomes available - along with Ramesh, Sriram et al.
> And Harby wouldnt replace Goel - apart from ability, which may or
> may not be worth a debate, Harby does not and has never played for
> Delhi in his life, and probably never will. He is a Punjab born
> and bred guy who has stuck with Punjab all his cricketing life, and
> probably always will (sort of like Sidhu, Yuvraj etc probably
> will too).
My bad, sorry. I don't know why I thought Harbhajan played for Delhi.
> Sharandeep Singh is the off-spinning international
> who has now moved from Punjab to Delhi - but I personally would not
> ever consider picking him ahead of Goel for an all-time XI.
Nor would I. I hear he may chuck the odd one.
>
> Sadiq [ Sehwag might be the first decent player Delhi has produced :-)] Yusuf
>
Now there's a troll if ever I saw one. Probably not that unfair though
- as Guha notes, most of the really good players for Delhi seem to be
migrants from Punjab or, in Chauhan's case, Maharashtra. But then you
get to the age old question of where someone hails from and who
deserves credit for the way they play, etc. I note you're very quick
to claim players who've played substantial portions of their careers
for Bombay, which is fair enough. I think Guha's criteria are fairly
similar - he omits Indrajitsinhji, for instance, because he only
really had any association with Delhi when at Stephen's, but not
afterwards. So I'm quite happy with all the above being named Delhi
products.
Aditya [ Martin Crowe hails from Auckland. So does his
cousin, Russell. As does the great underrated
WWF Wrestler, The Rock. Oscar, however, lives
in Wellington with his lover Peter Jackson.
I'd have taken Keisha Castle-Hughes myself. ] Basrur
P.S. Did you get my email?
CiL
>cricke...@hotmail.com (Amol Cricketwallah) wrote in message news:<a374a779.04030...@posting.google.com>...
><snip>
>
>> What's harsh? That Maninder is considered a Bedi-clone (which would
>> actually be a huge compliment)? Or that Goel is picked ahead of him
>> for an all-time XI (which is also something I personally agree with,
>> anyway)?
>
>Well, I'd resent being called a clone, no matter how good the person I
>was supposedly cloning was. It's something of a compliment, yes, but
>suggests a lack of individuality, guile and intelligence when bowling
>in my view.
Nope this is different, MAni would be over joyed to be called a bedi
clone, he was that sardar' protege and guru shishya parampara n all
that, Mani would feel it is a huge and undeserving complement!
but what a bowler Mani was for a short period of time, that rip, that
bite that he used to get off the pitch, the arm ball would just
fizz... pity he couldnt operate at that high plane for too long.
<snip>
>
>Similarly Sehwag is often called a Tendulkar clone, which I don't
>think is especially fair on either Sehwag or Tendulkar. Their builds
>are similar perhaps, but they're rather different batsmen,
>particularly in the way they deal with fast bowling and high-quality
>spin. The new model Tendulkar - the guy who played that big knock at
>Sydney - was quite different from the Sehwag who hit 195. Both are
>very useful, but the clone comment is a bit of a copout IMHO.
its not unfair on sehwag! he himself said, he copies him and is happy
compared to him.
+++++++
it makes me feel very happy that I am compared to my role model. I
don't think I am half of what he is. I do copy him, but his records
and his style cannot be touched by anyone. I was and even today I am
his fan. I just hope to continue playing like him.
+++++++++++ http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2002/sep/24sehwag.htm
<snip>
>style complements Sehwag better. I haven't seen any of Gambhir, but
>from reports, it seems as though he's a more attacking player. I
>suppose he's now in the queue of opening hopefuls if and when a spot
>becomes available - along with Ramesh, Sriram et al.
I wud have S Ramesh ahead, behind him would Gambhir.
<snip>
DiiVolunt
I am glad some one mentioned Praveen Oberoi...one of greatest spinners
never to grace headlines...saw him bowl...
> What's harsh? That Maninder is considered a Bedi-clone (which would
> actually be a huge compliment)? Or that Goel is picked ahead of him
> for an all-time XI (which is also something I personally agree with,
> anyway)?
>
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Phew. If anyone's still reading, I wonder if it's time to revise the
> > above XI. Chopra probably hasn't done enough to find a spot, but
> > Sehwag's credentials look like they might surpass Saxena's or
> > Bhandari's in the middle order, if not Raman Lamba's. Harbhajan may be
> > about ready to replace Rajinder Goel, too.
> >
>
> Chopra hasnt done nearly enough to find a spot - if a spot were to
> open up, anyway, it ought to go to Gambhir rather than Chopra. It is
> probably only thru the capriciousness of the Indian selectors that
> Gambhir lags behind Chopra at the national level anyway - for most
> Delhi-fans or followers, there is no question who has been the more
> valuable opener. Sehwag deserves a go in the middle-order for sure,
> or even at opener if the need arises - and he has earned a spot
> already. (Someone like KP Bhaskar might have as well).
I am surprised that KP or Bantoo might challenge for all time spot
easily...
And you are right GOEL is irreplacable..sarandeep have to play 20 more
seasons to reach his heights....
> And Harby wouldnt replace Goel - apart from ability, which may or
> may not be worth a debate, Harby does not and has never played for
> Delhi in his life, and probably never will. He is a Punjab born
> and bred guy who has stuck with Punjab all his cricketing life, and
> probably always will (sort of like Sidhu, Yuvraj etc probably
> will too). Sharandeep Singh is the off-spinning international
> who has now moved from Punjab to Delhi - but I personally would not
> ever consider picking him ahead of Goel for an all-time XI.
>
>
> Sadiq [ Sehwag might be the first decent player Delhi has produced :-)] Yusuf
sehwag was born in najafgarh, around 46 km from cannaught place just
15 km more away is narwana where Goel was born:-)....and for those who
have commuted..for najafgarh we have to change the bus while narwana
same bus goes....
Mirza Idrees Baig was born in Delhi...one of founders of Pakistani
cricket...he was decent bowler in 30s..23 wickets at 13.6 with medium
pace in a zone where he played for weakest side...
Yogendra Mohan Chowdhury was born in Delhi and played for Delhi in
1950s and was rated the best #3 for India after Lala Amarnath and even
into 70s when major writers of time compared nascent vengsarkar to
him....
YMC never represented India ....some money left by ancestors and bunch
of race horses which won quite a few trophies not to mention dough
for him and india...
averaged almost 40 over 14 years of first class cricket...Raju
Bharatan names him First decent player produced by Delhi:-)...
Rajinder Pal had 337 wickets at 21 over 20 years in first class
bowling medium pace....
Prakash Bhandari was another decent person from 50s side i can name..
>
>
> >
> > Aditya [ Growing extremely fond of Punjabis. ] Basrur
regards
Pranshu B Saxena [have been fond of them for quite a long time]
DiiVolunt
We have had this fight...sadiq first used that phrase in 2000....in
1995...he wrote if i remember Delhi has never produced decent
cricketers..
regards
Pranshu B Saxena
DiiVolunt
> >
>
Naseem ul Ghani....born in delhi....tolerable enough test
cricketer...friend of billy Ibadullah...both encouraged a young
batsman called Glen Turner...he married a delhite :-)
Bhandari was actually born 19 days before Sehwag...jury is still
out...
Dharmani was born in Delhi....
RC Saxena has 8000 plus first class runs at 40 odd....he did hit the
boundary to make england bat again at headinghly 67...
Surinder Khanna won 2 consec man of match awards for India...
we are talking about decent players so he might not count...was'nt
dropdas born and brought up in delhi....
Prabhakar was born in ghaziabad...you can reach ghaziabad faster than
najafgarh!
in 81, ghaziabad is under delhi administration but i dont know how or
why...borth certificates of some players after 81 say ghaziabad, delhi
but kunals' say UP....
Manu Nayyar averaged 48 in 80s decade...
Atul Wassan with 290 first class wickets and a promise missed...
Anil Kumar Khanna was the keeper in 55-65 decade and he had unique
record 40 catches and 44 stumpings in 33 matches...or other way
round...basically catches to stumping ratio was very low....that is a
rarity...
Anju Jain, Indian keeper and "successfull player" was born 4 years
before Sehwag...
Asjit Jaiprakasham, player most responsible for rise of orissa in
national cricket was born in delhi...randhir singh who bowled for them
was born in delhi as was great Hari Gidwani of Bihar and colleague
Anil mathur who did the duty for UP...
Mukesh Shamsunder Narula did his duty by Baroda like Dubey and Gossain
for Bihar joining Gidwani and Deepak sharma for haryana...
In 60s, 70s, 80s....delhi players were backbones of several ranji
sides while punjab players were delhi's backbone...
Guys like Surendranath, Javed Burki, Raman lamba, Parthasarthy Sharma
, Kapil Dev et all were born in NCR....
Delhi is also unlucky that youngest amarnath, the pataudi who didnt
play were born there.. (sadiq 's paani mein kharaabi joke)....
One of two chaps responsible for India pakistan series was born in
Delhi and he doesnt go by middle name Behari...also are born in delhi,
atleast 2 pakistani umpires standing in the odi series...
and last of all....many of the players may not have been born in
delhi...one cannot chose where one is born but many died in Delhi...
regards
Pranshu B Saxena
Samarth Shah
> >
> > Mohinder was probably as good a batsman at forty - when he was removed
> > from the Indian side on account of his age - as he had been at any
> > stage of his career. In fact, as he grew older his range of strokes
> > widened. Starting out as an on-side player, in time he developed a
> > stunning array of off-side strokes. Like other Indian batsmen (notably
> > Kapil Dev), he exacted a heavy toll off Abdul Qadir, delighting in
> > hitting the wrist-spinner's googly, inside out, over extra cover.
> >
>
> Guha doesnt know this, of course - or didnt when he wrote the book
> at any rate. But both Gavaskar and Mohinder would pick Qadir's googly
> off his hand, and on doing so would promptly yell out "Googles!" -
> and then come dancing down the track and hit it inside-out thru or
> over extra-cover for four :-)
I just cannot imagine either of them, especially Gavaskar, hit a
spinner in the air, and that too AGAINST the turn. Not on a regular
basis anyway. Far too risky for a safety-first player who was always
very keen on tightening up his batting.
I think this falls into Shripathi's category of, "give them 10 years
and they'll say he could walk on water."
-Samarth.
Shishir S. Pathak
news:41031dcf.04030...@posting.google.com...
> cricke...@hotmail.com (Amol Cricketwallah) wrote in message
news:<a374a779.04030...@posting.google.com>...
> > fastestod...@yahoo.co.uk (Ajit Agarkar) wrote in message
news:<1d8c240f.04022...@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > > Mohinder was probably as good a batsman at forty - when he was removed
> > > from the Indian side on account of his age - as he had been at any
> > > stage of his career. In fact, as he grew older his range of strokes
> > > widened. Starting out as an on-side player, in time he developed a
> > > stunning array of off-side strokes. Like other Indian batsmen (notably
> > > Kapil Dev), he exacted a heavy toll off Abdul Qadir, delighting in
> > > hitting the wrist-spinner's googly, inside out, over extra cover.
> > >
> >
> > Guha doesnt know this, of course - or didnt when he wrote the book
> > at any rate. But both Gavaskar and Mohinder would pick Qadir's googly
> > off his hand, and on doing so would promptly yell out "Googles!" -
> > and then come dancing down the track and hit it inside-out thru or
> > over extra-cover for four :-)
>
> I just cannot imagine either of them, especially Gavaskar, hit a
> spinner in the air, and that too AGAINST the turn. Not on a regular
> basis anyway. Far too risky for a safety-first player who was always
> very keen on tightening up his batting.
I'd be interested in knowing if someone remembers a *specific* instance of
this happening ... which series, which game etc. During those days, they
didn't have stump mikes for the games played in India and Pakistan (IIRC
only Channel Nine used them in Aus) but if Gavaskar and Amarnath were doing
this regularly, some commentator would have mentioned it.
Moreover, Gavaskar and Amarnath are the kind of chaps who'd concentrate on
the delivery they are facing, and score a few runs if they can, rather than
laugh at Qadir's expense, and even though Qadir didn't exactly bowl at
Imran's speed, I find it somewhat difficult to believe that a batsman would
have enough time to shout "Googles!" and then play his extravagant shot
through extra-cover each and every time without losing his concentration at
least once.
> I think this falls into Shripathi's category of, "give them 10 years
> and they'll say he could walk on water."
I know for sure that every time Imran bowled one of his banana inswingers,
Gavaskar would shout "Bottle tops!" before creaming him through mid-wicket
for four.
Cheers, Shishir
<snip>
CiL
>I just cannot imagine either of them, especially Gavaskar, hit a
>spinner in the air, and that too AGAINST the turn. Not on a regular
>basis anyway. Far too risky for a safety-first player who was always
>very keen on tightening up his batting.
>
>I think this falls into Shripathi's category of, "give them 10 years
>and they'll say he could walk on water."
Nope, as I wroteI have heard it before, I think from SMG himself on
air .
and reported at Outlookindia as well
and here goes
http://www.outlookindia.com/diary.asp?fodname=19980202
++++++++++++
STUCK at Delhi airport, because of fog, the day of the opening match
of the Dhaka tournament,along with several journalists, was Sunny
Gavaskar. One of the stories he told us was about Pakistan spinner
Abdul Qadir. Both Mohinder Amarnath and Sunny himself would shout
'Googles' and step out of the crease the moment Qadir bowled a googly
to them. This would cause Qadir great consternation, provoking him
once to say: "Chauka maro aaram se par Googles bol ke beizzat mat karo
(you can hit a four if you want but don't insult me by shouting
Googles).
+++++++++++++
CiL
who doesn'nt mess around with anecdotes like cardus
Samarth Shah
Ok, so SMG claims he and MBA did shout "Googles" when Qadir bowled a
googly. That still leaves the claim I was talking about - that of
their hitting him against the turn over extra-cover - unsubstantiated.
-Samarth.
h r i p a t h i k a m a t h @hotmail.com Shripathi Kamath
Googles!
--
Shripathi Kamath
P.S.
LOL!
Amol Cricketwallah
Probably my fault, for mentally combining different aspects of the
story, then :-)
I do remember them hitting Qadir around a fair bit. But even apart
from memory - if you note Guha's piece above, he specifically mentions:
-----
Like other Indian batsmen (notably Kapil Dev), he exacted a heavy toll
off Abdul Qadir, delighting in hitting the wrist-spinner's googly,
inside out, over extra cover.
----
That does at least offer some verification of "hitting against turn
over extra-cover"?
And I remembered from a couple of different occasions hearing about
the SMG story of "googles" - though from reading the Outlook
extract it appears my memory of the exact words Qadir said was
not quite spot-on, even if the general meaning was similar :-)
My memory had sort of translated Qadir's quote and the story and
Guha's story all together into "every time he bowled a googly,
they yelled 'googles' and hit him over cover for four". Of course,
from a closer reading of the story now, it is clear that SMG
only says they yelled "googles" every time he bowled a googly -
and probably only *sometimes* simultaneously hit it for four over
extra-cover :-)
Sadiq [ Qadir's series' against India: 2w @ 86.50,
11w @ 47.11, 4w @ 26.00, 4w @ 60.50, 6w @ 57.66 ] Yusuf
> -Samarth.
Aditya Basrur
<snip>
> yep, I meant to write in my post and I forgot as I came at the end of
> that long post of mine!
>
Sorry? Come again? What are you trying to say here? In some parts of the
world, saying "I came" is synonymous with "I ejaculated". What are you doing
ejaculating at the end of posts? Do you need to get checked out by a doctor?
<snip>
Aditya [ Worried. ] Basrur
DiiVolunt
> CiL wrote:
> <snip>
> > yep, I meant to write in my post and I forgot as I came at the end of
> > that long post of mine!
> >
>
> Sorry? Come again? What are you trying to say here? In some parts of the
Now, Aditya i am worried...the rsc might be mistaken for something
else altogether..
Pranshu [now worried] Saxena