Larry Holmes (1980) vs. Muhammad Ali (1976-80)
#Taking Care of Business
had fought Ali years earlier, since it could be argued that the late 1960's
Ali would have mopped up the floor with Holmes. Yet Holmes, in many ways,
was the next Muhammad Ali, but he was always observed "in the shadows" and
never given the real credit he was due. Ali was 38 years old, already
showing severe brain-damage or Parkinson's syndrome, and decided to use a
hyper-thyroid drug to burn off fat. The Muhammad Ali that thought Trevor
Berick in 1981 was 237 pounds, so it was oblivious what the hyper-thyroid
drug was really for.
However, the real Ali had his last hurrah in 1974 with George Foreman.
Sure Ali fought many times in 1975, but only the Frazier fight stands out,
and the problem there was -- how much did Frazier really have left? I mean
if the 1975 Ali had faced the 1971 Frazier, what would have happened? Name
me an impressive fight Ali had from 1976-1981?
Ken Norton? I watch that fight over and over again, and see nothing of
the real Ali. I see a guy fight peek-a-boo all night and then finally in the
late rounds he tried to get his act together. Did Ali get a gift decision? I
don't think so, although in the modern day he would have lost. In the old
days, you had to take the title from the champion and Norton only won the
fight by one round or drew Ali -- so Ali's win was very much valid.
Ernie Shavers? Lets see the battle of two over the hill fighters. Ali
seemingly could have finished Shavers in Round 15, if he had started earlier
in the round. By many accounts I have the fight either going to Shavers or
drawing. Ali was not impressive in the fight at all.
Leon Spinks (II): Who the h*ll was Leon Spinks? And for people to say
Leon won the title and then took drugs are brain-dead. Leon was always on
drugs, and the Leon that fought Ali in September just got baffled by seeing
this old guy dance around for 15 rounds. Spinks fought much like he did in
the first fight, he just didn't have Muhammad Ali going "hit me" for 15
rounds. Larry Holmes tore Leon Spinks apart in 1981, and would have tore him
apart in 1978. Enough said.
Trevor Berick: What was impressive about this fight was to see Ali close
his career out on a better note than the Holmes fight, but stick this Ali in
with Holmes, and Ali probably hurts Ali even more.
So I'm convinced that Larry Holmes from 1980-83 could have taken out Ali
from 1976-on. What do you guys think?
#TCB
charles.beauchamp
"#Taking Care of Business" <fgeo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Mass Snippage
> Trevor Berick: What was impressive about this fight was to see Ali
close
> his career out on a better note than the Holmes fight, but stick this Ali
in
> with Holmes, and Ali probably hurts Ali even more.
>
> So I'm convinced that Larry Holmes from 1980-83 could have taken out
Ali
> from 1976-on. What do you guys think?
>
Might be entirely on target....but could the 1976 Larry Holmes have beaten
the 1976 Ali? Maybe...probably not though.
v/r Beau
D. Deatherage
I'm one of the few that thinks a prime Holmes could have beat a prime
Ali. But that's just my opinion.
-Danton
charles.beauchamp
"D. Deatherage" <HOLY...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:24583-3D6...@storefull-2337.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> I'm one of the few that thinks a prime Holmes could have beat a prime
> Ali. But that's just my opinion.
>
> -Danton
Nothing wrong with being in the extreme minority I guess...but then again
there is a difference between "could have" and "would have"
bubipoo
prime larry beats a prime ali.
"#Taking Care of Business" <fgeo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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BoxMuham
> since it could be argued that the late 1960's
>Ali would have mopped up the floor with Holmes.
This would be one of the greatest matchups of all time, as would Ali
vs. Tunney.
I doubt many would claim Ali would "mop the floor" with a prime Larry
Holmes, though there are definitely fighters about whom it's easy to see such.
> Name
>me an impressive fight Ali had from 1976-1981?
Ali KO Ron Lyle. Oh wait, '75.
I think Ali beating Shavers after taking such a massive chin shot from
Ernie early was impressive. But Muhammad was clearly nearing the end.
Coming back to beat up Spinks was impressive also, given Ali's age and
the fact that he'd just lost to the man.
>By many accounts I have the fight either going to Shavers or
>drawing.
Shavers won a small handful of rounds, at most. This should have been
an easy UD for Ali, and it was.
>Who the h*ll was Leon Spinks?
A footnote in heavyweight history.
>Trevor Berick: What was impressive about this fight was to see Ali close
>his career out on a better note than the Holmes fight,
Ali looked sick in that fight. Very flat footed. No balance.
Terrible sight. But yes, he did fare much better than he had vs. Holmes. But
this was Trevor Berbick, not the prime Easton Assassin.
> So I'm convinced that Larry Holmes from 1980-83 could have taken out Ali
>from 1976-on. What do you guys think?
I agree completely. Larry Holmes was one of the greatest heavyweights
of all time.
BoxMuhammad
Stanley Hammond
> I'm one of the few that thinks a prime Holmes could have beat a prime
> Ali. But that's just my opinion.
>
> -Danton
I agree. Both men have intimate knowledge of each other's style, but
Ali was a little faster than Holmes, and Larry hit harder and was a
better infighter. I see Larry cutting off the ring and employing the
Nortonesque strategy of parrying Ali's jab while simultaneously
hitting him with a no less stinging jab of his own. Look to Larry, (a
better boxer than Norton!) to pile up points en route to a UD.
In fact, I'll go a step further -- I rank Holmes above Ali on my
all-time greats list, the best boxer after Jack Johnson.
Stanley Hammond
would need the young Ali, (up to the Zora Folley fight) to have a
decent chance against a prime Larry Holmes.
It's amazing how underestimated Larry Holmes is just because he
followed Ali as champion.
bubipoo
"Stanley Hammond" <lars...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e4325d.02082...@posting.google.com...
UserR6618
I agree. A prime Holmes beats a prime Ali. Ali is VASTLY over-rated as a
fighter. His magnificent personality makes it easy to forget how easily Norton,
Spinks and several other rather ordinary HWs dealt with him.
>Subject: Re: Larry Holmes (1980) vs. Muhammad Ali (1976-80)
>From: HOLY...@webtv.net (D. Deatherage)
>Date: 24/08/2002 18:39 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <24583-3D6...@storefull-2337.public.lawson.webtv.net>
BoxMuham
>I agree. A prime Holmes beats a prime Ali.
>makes it easy to forget how easily Norton,
>Spinks and several other rather ordinary HWs dealt with him.
Funny you say a prime Holmes beats a prime Ali, and then mention Ali's
opponents from *years* past his prime!
When Ali first fought Norton he was a good 7 years past his prime. Of
course, by the time he faced Spinks, he was 11 years past his prime, and ready
to hang 'em up.
Yes, Holmes was great, but you don't know what you're talking about.
BoxMuhammad
news.cn99.com
When Ali vs Holmes ,he had been 38 ,and Holmes was only
30!
Supposing Ali were 25 when he vs Holmes, I think Holmes must be beated
down!
Do you agree?
"Stanley Hammond" <lars...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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vendetti
have had a hard time against Holmes and L.Lewis .Ali of the 70's
didn't have the great foot speed anymore .Thats my opinion .... Great
topic .
Pat
Don_Diego
Larry would've kicked his ass.
BoxMuham
Plus the 3 following years of total dominance in the division when Ali
was the picture of the perfect heavyweight.
As far as your premise goes, in their first bout, Ali schooled Liston
and made him quit. Fix? Silly statement.
>Prime
>Larry would've kicked his ass.
Prime Larry Holmes was great, but a rather silly statement
considering Ali's career.
BoxMuhammad
BoxMuham
>Ali of the 60's would have defeated anyone .
Ali at his peak in '67 stands the best chance.
>The Ali of the 70's would
>have had a hard time against Holmes and L.Lewis .
Against prime Holmes, perhaps. But Ali was still borderline "great"
up through knocking out prime Foreman. And even through '75, a tougher
heavyweight has rarely existed. The Ali that knocked out Foreman would have
gone through Lewis like butter.
BoxMuhammad
super calo
"BoxMuham" <boxm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020828040040...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Lewis is stupid but not quite stupid enough to fight the idiotic fight
foreman did, then again Ali would'nt be allowed to get away with it today
> BoxMuhammad
Davidleealford
Holmes was Ali's sparring partner. Ali was the champ.
Ali made the Holmes fight. Was it just for $$$? If not, why would he make that
fight unless he knew at one time he was better than Holmes based on their
boxing together for many rounds? Yes, he deceived himself at his later age, but
it seems he must have known years before, he was Holmes' master.
Holmes would have a hard time catching Ali of the 60's. Yet, Ali would have
been able to catch Holmes easily, because of his incredible speed.
Ten years later, at Holme's prime and the beginning of Ali's decline, I rate
them even with perhaps the edge to Ali on the basis of chin and heart.
David
