Where does Tommy Morrison rank?
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
Is that fair or did I overrate or underrate him?
His skin color did NOT factor into my selection for "The Duke" at #27. If
not for a *very* suspect chin , he might even be higher.
Consider this: Morrison (46-3-1, 40) outboxed an aged, but still very
capable George Foreman and wasn't even knocked down. And many consider
Foreman to be the hardest hitting HW in history. Once asked who punched him
the hardest, legendary HW champion Evander Holyfield said it was Mr.
Foreman. Also, Morrison added quality wins on his resume over the likes of:
Joe Hipp, Carl Williams, and Razor Ruddock.
However, he suffered stoppage losses to : Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, Michael
Bentt, and a horrible draw against Ross Purity. No shame in losing to Lewis
or Mercer, but the loss to Bentt was unacceptable.
How would Morrison do today against the likes of Brewster, Toney, Rahman, or
Valuev. It's hard to be sure with his jaw, but IMO his power would bit a bit
too much for the 4 mentioned above. In the HW division today, a guy like
Morrison could flourish with his power. Most would say Morrison doesn't even
belong in the top 50, but his power would give Morrison a chance against any
HW in the history of the division.
Scar TKO
The Arranger
TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> I compiled my list of of top 50 HW in history and I have Tommy Morrison #27.
> Is that fair or did I overrate or underrate him?
>
I have him #27 among heavyweights related to people who appeared in
"Red River."
The Arranger
Loki
He wouldn't belong in the top 50. Suggesting that he would hold his
own, possibly even beat Brewster, Toney, Rahman, or Valuev is about as
impressive as saying that he would have a good shot against Chuck
Wepner.
Loki
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If Tommy doesn't crack the top 50, who's at number # 49 & 50 instead?
RB
35s5
NY
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
Scar TKO
"Loki" <cubby...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9vkna25kh17qpbsig...@4ax.com...
The Arranger
TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> > He wouldn't belong in the top 50.
>
> Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
>
> Scar TKO
OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
straight up.
Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
Foreman (10)
Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
Witherspoon (50)
Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
etc.
The Arranger
deadand...@gmail.com
>
> OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
> straight up.
>
> Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
> Foreman (10)
> Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
> Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
> Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
> W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
> Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
> Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
> Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
> Witherspoon (50)
> Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
> etc.
>
I don't know about Bonecrusher Smith, but James J Jeffries is a big
time "yes".
Loki
Not to mention Jim Jefferies...
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
Terell, Cooney, and a few others you mentioned.
Scar TKO
"The Arranger" <scrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1152123127.4...@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Walter Mitty
"TIMOTHY DONATELLI" <steve...@comcast.net> writes:
> I'll take Morrison over = Ruiz, Bone crusher SMith, Rahman, Bunger, Weaver,
> Terell, Cooney, and a few others you mentioned.
>
> Scar TKO
How on earth do you see him beating Ruiz or Smith?
> "The Arranger" <scrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1152123127.4...@b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
>>> > He wouldn't belong in the top 50.
>>>
>>> Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
>>>
>>> Scar TKO
>>
>> OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
>> straight up.
>>
>> Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
>> Foreman (10)
>> Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
>> Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
>> Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
>> W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
>> Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
>> Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
>> Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
>> Witherspoon (50)
>> Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
>> etc.
>>
>> The Arranger
>>
>
>
--
The Arranger
TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> I'll take Morrison over = Ruiz, Bone crusher SMith, Rahman, Bunger, Weaver,
> Terell, Cooney, and a few others you mentioned.
>
> Scar TKO
OK, with the names you mentioned, yuou get him up to #51. List the
other 24 you rate him above where he lands at 27.
The Arranger
Digital25
not belong in the top 50. Granted, Lewis was the best of his era, but
I don't think Morrison could beat any of the current world champions.
By the way, Morrison is planning a comeback, saying that his HIV
diagnosis was wrong.
The Arranger
He said his test was a false positive. How many times was he tested,
and why isn't he seeking a re-test? He says he feels good, so the test
must be wrong. Whoc an argue with that kind of science?
The Arranger
Loki
<steve...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I'll take Morrison over = Ruiz, Bone crusher SMith, Rahman, Bunger, Weaver,
>Terell, Cooney, and a few others you mentioned.
Ruiz, Bugner, Rahman and possibly Smith (though I see that as a pick
'em), but no way does he rate over Weaver, Terrell, and Cooney.
Thepork...@aol.com
I think you overrated him. Easy to do with modern fighters. OTOH may
have done quite well against the above competetition you mentioned. But
I think that speaks more to the lack of talent today than it does to
how Tommy Morrison rates all time. Morrison had good power not great
power but he also had good speed and good offensive skills.
pmfan57
Loki wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2006 11:12:07 -0700, "The Arranger" <scrc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> >> > He wouldn't belong in the top 50.
> >>
> >> Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
> >>
> >> Scar TKO
> >
> >OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
> >straight up.
> >
> >Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
> >Foreman (10)
> >Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
> >Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
> >Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
> >W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
> >Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
> >Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
> >Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
> >Witherspoon (50)
> >Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
> >etc.
> >
> >The Arranger
>
> Not to mention Jim Jefferies...
>
>
> Loki
>
>
I got Quarry over Bugner and Moore.
Jeffries was considered by Jack Johnson to be the best heavyweight
champion. He saw Jeff in his prime (which he was not for his fight
with Johnson.). For this reason alone, Jeff should at least be in the
top 20. Jeffries, with appropriate modern training might do very well,
and certainly could beat Coetzee or Johansson, to crack the top 50.
Loki
This is not intended to take away from anything you have said because
I am in complete agreement with you.
One thing about Jeff that is often overlooked however is how much
bigger than his opposition he was. When Jeff won the title against
Fitzsimmons, Jefferies weighed in at 206 to Ruby Robert's 167.
Thereafter when Jefferies defended the crown he always came in between
215-220 lbs and his opponents (other than 200 lb. Gus Ruhlin who
weighed 200 lbs on the nose) never weighed more than 190.
That would certainly be a factor in evaluating Jefferies from a
historic standpoint. Even at 215-220 he makes the upper echelon, but
to put things in perspective if he were fighting today with the same
size advantage he enjoyed then, he would be about 275 lbs of solid
muscle.
Paul Cassel
> I compiled my list of of top 50 HW in history and I have Tommy Morrison #27.
> Is that fair or did I overrate or underrate him?
>
competing at hw. I'd guess that there are more than 30 guys in the
period from 1930 to 1940 none of who I ever heard of who could have
beaten Morrison and I take that decade at random.
I find it very tough to gauge fighters like Morrison or Tyson. It seemed
like their opponents made them what they were more than any great skills
they had. As a compare take Hagler. Nobody would debate his greatness
came from his athleticism, drive and skill.
-paul
Ken Paulie
<digital_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Remember though, he admitted in a fairly recent interview that he took
steroids for most of his pro career. They are tested for that now so
he would have to fight clean.
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
The same way he beat George Foreman and Razor Ruddock. He had the power to
do it.
Scar TKO
"Walter Mitty" <mitt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:87k66rn...@gmail.com...
>
>
> "TIMOTHY DONATELLI" <steve...@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> I'll take Morrison over = Ruiz, Bone crusher SMith, Rahman, Bunger,
>> Weaver,
>> Terell, Cooney, and a few others you mentioned.
>>
>> Scar TKO
>
>
>
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
Patterson accomplsihed more than Morrison, but Floyd had a suspect jaw as
well.
Scar TKO
"The Arranger" <scrc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1152190436....@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
neo_di...@yahoo.com
Paul Cassel wrote:
> I find it very tough to gauge fighters like Morrison or Tyson. It seemed
> like their opponents made them what they were more than any great skills
> they had. As a compare take Hagler. Nobody would debate his greatness
> came from his athleticism, drive and skill.
> -paul
Morrison vs Tyson, both at their peaks, would have been a great fight
for about 30 seconds. That's about all it would have taken for Tyson to
have found the range on the weak bearded "Duke". As for Marvin Hagler -
he was in an elite class of fighters & shouldn't even be mentioned in
the same breath as Tommy Morrison, though the early Kevin Rooney
trained version of Tyson, could have been...
DCI
<steve...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> How on earth do you see him beating Ruiz or Smith?
>
>
>The same way he beat George Foreman and Razor Ruddock. He had the power to
>do it.
>
>Scar TKO
The George Foreman - Tommy Morrison bout was a very close fight with
neither fighter getting a superior edge. That being said, the decision
stunk to high heaven.
DCI
5016
I remember that one as a clear win for Morrison - certainly not from
Morrison's power, but from the fact that he simply circled to his right
and kept moving the whole fight. The most disciplined fight Morrison
ever fought - he never tried to trade with Foreman. I think that at
that stage any decent young fighter could have beaten Foreman if they
stuck to that blueprint.
DCI
I guess we will agree not to agree on this one.
DCI
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
> neither fighter getting a superior edge. That being said, the decision
> stunk to high heaven.
>
> DCI
I'm a MUCH bigger Foreman fan than Morrison, but Tommy did win 8-4 on my
scorecard. Foreman was FLAT that night and failed to hurt Morrison once.
Scar TKO
"DCI" <ne...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pn2ta2tdituqpmlk0...@4ax.com...
DCI
<steve...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> The George Foreman - Tommy Morrison bout was a very close fight with
>> neither fighter getting a superior edge. That being said, the decision
>> stunk to high heaven.
>>
>> DCI
>
>I'm a MUCH bigger Foreman fan than Morrison, but Tommy did win 8-4 on my
>scorecard. Foreman was FLAT that night and failed to hurt Morrison once.
>
>Scar TKO
Your scoring of the fight is a matter of personal opinion. I saw the
fight far differently and far closer. That's my opinion.
Enjoy.
DCI
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
> fight far differently and far closer. That's my opinion.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> DCI
It is opinion and a few rounds were VERY close, but Foreman lost, and noboy
but you seems to think "Big George" won the fight. Not even a draw would
have been fair. Morrison was more ACTIVE and landed more, those are the
facts.
Maybe you seen it close than me, but Morrison outboxed Foreman.
Scar TKO
"DCI" <ne...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:obkta2520v213at5h...@4ax.com...
DCI
<steve...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Your scoring of the fight is a matter of personal opinion. I saw the
>> fight far differently and far closer. That's my opinion.
>>
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> DCI
>
>It is opinion and a few rounds were VERY close, but Foreman lost, and noboy
>but you seems to think "Big George" won the fight. Not even a draw would
>have been fair. Morrison was more ACTIVE and landed more, those are the
>facts.
>
>Maybe you seen it close than me, but Morrison outboxed Foreman.
>
>Scar TKO
Give it a rest and get on with your next observation.
DCI
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
>
> DCI
You mean my next prediction, where I actually pick before the fight instead
of after <grin>
Scar TKO
"DCI" <ne...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:d9uta2ddopo0389c3...@4ax.com...
Ruddell
(in article <1152114702.9...@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>):
>
> If Tommy doesn't crack the top 50, who's at number # 49 & 50 instead?
Tommy was a great fighter who's career was cut short. Sure, call him in the
top fifty if you like or not yet he never accomplished what he set out to do
and unfortunately, things like that happen. He will be remembered in the
boxing journals but that won't pay the bills.
He was great and had all the potential but it didn't work out. Top fifty,
bottom fifty, doesn't matter because he was a great boxer...
--
Cheers
Dennis
Remove 'Elle-Kabong' to reply
Mr.Will
"5016" <huwg...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1152292361.6...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Was that before or after Schulz was robbed in his first fight with Foreman?
Mr.Will
Mr.Will
"TIMOTHY DONATELLI" <steve...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:JP-dnTvjrZqUtTLZ...@comcast.com...
>> Give it a rest and get on with your next observation.
>>
>> DCI
>
> You mean my next prediction, where I actually pick before the fight
> instead of after <grin>
>
> Scar TKO
Why change a winning formula of predicting fights?
Mr.Will
5016
Well before. The Sculz decision was just bizarre - he won almost as
convincingly as I thought Morrison did.
Wbs...@aol.com
The Arranger wrote:
> TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> > > He wouldn't belong in the top 50.
> >
> > Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
> >
> > Scar TKO
>
> OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
> straight up.
>
> Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
> Foreman (10)
> Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
> Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
> Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
> W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
> Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
> Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
> Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
> Witherspoon (50)
> Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
> etc.
>
> The Arranger
You left out Balboa.
TIMOTHY DONATELLI
>
> You left out Balboa.
>
And Mr. T <grin>
Scar TKO
<Wbs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1152575745.4...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Carlton Trusin
wrote:
Because that third grade sh!t gets old after awhile.
sujiti...@gmail.com
> TIMOTHY DONATELLI wrote:
> > > He wouldn't belong in the top 50.
> >
> > Name 50 better than Morrison <grin>
> >
> > Scar TKO
>
> OK, I will drop the facetious face I put on other posts and answer you
> straight up.
>
> Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Demspey, Marciano, Tunney, Lewis, Liston,
> Foreman (10)
> Frazier, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, Patterson, V.
> Klitschko, Schmeling, Sharkey (20)
> Baer, Moore, Cleveland Williams, Bugner, Ellis, Quarry, Lyle, Bonavena,
> W. Klitschko, Rahman (30)
> Ruiz, Tua, Terrell, Witherspoon, Page, Mercer, Douglas, Tucker,
> Ibeabuchi, Langford (40)
> Weaver, Valdes, Machen, Folley, Norton, Johansson, Ray, Dokes, Coetzee,
> Witherspoon (50)
> Cooney, Page, Shavers, Young, Tubbs, Bruno, McCall, Bonecrusher Smith,
> etc.
>
Dempsey the ducker at 5??!?!? LOl what a joke