Why did Ali fight Trevor Berbick?
Mike
What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
the Heavyweight Championship?
Or was the Berbick fight a one shot deal that Ali was contractually
obligated to do for some reason?
Who saw that fight? Was it any good?
biggamehunter
"Mike" <MrStr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7cfd37d2.04011...@posting.google.com...
BoxMuham
>What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
>age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
>the Heavyweight Championship?
I don't know if Ali was simply delusional, but it is very clear in
watching that fight that his balance was waaaay off and something was seriously
wrong with him.
The press conferences surrounding that fight are chilling. Ali is
really slurring his words. His affect had changed dramatically from even the
time of the Holmes' bout.
Very strange sight. In terms of the fight, Ali does okay (it's
Berbick, after all), but it's a terrible thing to see.
It's actually out on DVD, if you're interested. The press
conferences are included.
BoxM
Flea-bitten dog
Charles Beauchamp
Money pride and delusion...the evil trifecta of boxing that seems to addict
every great champion.
And the fight sucked in all ways.
v/r Beau
5016
> I've never understood why Ali decided to fight Trevor Berbick in 1981.
>
> What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
> age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
> the Heavyweight Championship?
Yes.
>
> Or was the Berbick fight a one shot deal that Ali was contractually
> obligated to do for some reason?
>
No.
> Who saw that fight?
I did.
> Was it any good?
No.
It is worth remembering that Berbick, thought of then as an inferior
fighter, and now as the guy who fell over 3 times after being hit once
by Tyson, was a pretty decent fighter. He went pretty easy on Ali to
let him go the distance.
BTW, Lennox Lewis is the same age right now that Ali was when Ali
fought Berbick.
Ernest Kind
The fight was a farce. the reason: $$$$$$$$$
BoxMuham
>was a pretty decent fighter. He went pretty easy on Ali to
>let him go the distance.
I totally disagree. This was a relatively ugly fight, with Ali looking
shot and Berbick fighting in his strange, herky jerk style all night.
Although Ali didn't belong in a ring anymore and was showing obvious
signs of motor skill problems, he still fought hard all night against a
Berbick who was taking some blows, giving out some blows, and getting the
better of the old Ali.
Berbick was definitely not "going easy" on Ali. That's the level of
fighter Berbick was. I wouldn't call him a "pretty decent" heavyweight.
Berbick is more like a Scott LeDoux.
>BTW, Lennox Lewis is the same age right now that Ali was when Ali
>fought Berbick.
I hope Lennox is smart enough to retire as champ. Be a rare feat. I
think the odds of his doing that are small, however.
BoxM
Paul Cassel
>
>
> I hope Lennox is smart enough to retire as champ. Be a
> rare feat. I think the odds of his doing that are small, however.
>
have been. I've been giving the reason that many boxers won't give it up
well after the should a lot of thought lately. I think it's analogous to an
actor not wanting to give up his career if he can get a part. That is, most
of them won't. They stop major acting when they can't get big parts and
then, like fighters moving down to club, they take parts in summer season or
other productions if they can.
I guess stepping out of the limelight is tough for many. Local to me is a
new Ray Leonard TV ad with him contending with a broken garbage bag. I'm
embarrassed for him just seeing it. In his case, it can't be the money - can
it? So what then if not for the burning desire to be in the public's eye in
any venue - even nasty ones like this.
-paul
Kip King
Lewis hasn't taken the pounding that Ali had by then. Also, Ali was
showing signs of Parkinsons disease which his doctors say may not be
connected to his boxing. In any case, several fighters have had good
or even great fights at much older ages. George Foreman and Archie
Moore come to mind. Kip
d...@cheetah.net
Archie Moore, a man - The Man - from your
area of digs, was probably the most intelligent
pro fighter ever. He literally revolutionized
the methods of specific preparation to face a
specific fighter. Despite many early career
defeats, he was to soon begin analyzing what an
opponent's strengths were and then set out in
training to counter them to develop and apply
his strengths in his "attack."
He literally kept a book on each fighter he would
face in time. He knew them and their styles better
than they did. He also was a man who knew how to
market himself, promote the fight, get the fight
and fight the fight. His record in those terms
was unblemished.
One of my great pleasures and memories was being
in the same training camp in Ojai, California, and
seeing first hand his daily regimen of preparing
for a fight. So thorough was his minute to minute,
hour to hour preparation that it was like watching
an artist with an engineer's discipline.
Truly, the man made the most of every single
opportunity he had.
DCI
BoxMuham
>Archie Moore, a man - The Man - from your
>area of digs, was probably the most intelligent
>pro fighter ever. He literally revolutionized
>the methods of specific preparation to face a
>specific fighter. Despite many early career
>defeats, he was to soon begin analyzing what an
>opponent's strengths were and then set out in
>training to counter them to develop and apply
>his strengths in his "attack."
>
>He literally kept a book on each fighter he would
>face in time. He knew them and their styles better
>than they did. He also was a man who knew how to
>market himself, promote the fight, get the fight
>and fight the fight. His record in those terms
>was unblemished.
>
>One of my great pleasures and memories was being
>in the same training camp in Ojai, California, and
>seeing first hand his daily regimen of preparing
>for a fight. So thorough was his minute to minute,
>hour to hour preparation that it was like watching
>an artist with an engineer's discipline.
>
>Truly, the man made the most of every single
>opportunity he had.
Well said.
Archie Moore, like Jackie Gleason, the Great One.
BoxM
Paul Cassel
>
> Lewis hasn't taken the pounding that Ali had by then. Also, Ali was
> showing signs of Parkinsons disease which his doctors say may not be
> connected to his boxing. In any case, several fighters have had good
> or even great fights at much older ages. George Foreman and Archie
> Moore come to mind.
I didn't say LL couldn't, but that, IMO, he likely (or maybe) wouldn't. I
willl agree on Moore, but not so much Foreman who won fights, but I'm not so
sure that they were 'good' ones. OK, I'll give you Foreman, but so what? Two
fighters, maybe a dozen if we really scan the books, who have fought at high
levels at 'advanced' ages while the majority take pounding after pounding
until they're walking condemnations of the sport.
-Paul
Mike
I'd like to see this fight someday, but I don't think they ever show
it on ESPN classic.
Didn't Joe Frazier also come back and fight someone around the same
time that Ali fought Berbick in 1981?
MrStr...@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<7cfd37d2.04011...@posting.google.com>...
The Sanity Cruzer
>
> I'd like to see this fight someday, but I don't think they ever show
> it on ESPN classic.
>
> Didn't Joe Frazier also come back and fight someone around the same
> time that Ali fought Berbick in 1981?
You'll find your answer at www.boxrec.com
The Sanity Cruzer
news:luml0052pp55liq0h...@4ax.com...
>
> One of my great pleasures and memories was being
> in the same training camp in Ojai, California, and
> seeing first hand his daily regimen of preparing
> for a fight. So thorough was his minute to minute,
> hour to hour preparation that it was like watching
> an artist with an engineer's discipline.
>
> Truly, the man made the most of every single
> opportunity he had.
An Archie Moore will never again exist. When you think about how Archie
hung in there an persevered when most would have quit, it is simply amazing.
What Moore did was utterly phenomenal. Twenty-seven and a half years in the
ring and still a lucid, caring man when older. I don't know how he did it,
but he did. In a strecth during 1943 and 1944 Moore lost 4 of 8 bouts,
giving zero indication he would be a man who fought on successfully for 19
more years.
I met him when I was a boy in San Jose. I still have the business card he
gave me for "Any Boy Can" (ABC) and his autograph in my Ring Record Book.
d...@cheetah.net
Keep those treasures and pass them on to
your children, as predicted by the Old
Mongoose, you certainly can.
DCI
Kip King
Diego into his backyard and seeing his boxing glove shaped swimming
pool. Kip
Kip King
Archie Moore's record:
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=008995
Kip
Ivan Weiss
"The Sanity Cruzer" <sanity...@earthlink.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:xxJOb.18910$zj7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I have always had Archie's picture on my wall. He was one of the most
brilliant fighters who ever lived.
--
Ivan Weiss http://www.twonewspapertown.org
Vashon WA http://ussmariner.blogspot.com
SuperCalo
>
> What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
> age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
> the Heavyweight Championship?
>
Ali did not have the skills of say a Lewis at age 39, in fact at the same
age Lewis would destroy Ali in about 12 seconds, Ali was more a Tyson type
of person, too much hard living, typical muslim
The Lord Memnoch
>Ali did not have the skills of say a Lewis at age 39, in fact at the same
>age Lewis would destroy Ali in about 12 seconds
Considering elwis never destroyed anyone in 12 seconds I would say you don't
know boxing.
> Ali was more a Tyson type
>of person, too much hard living, typical muslim
>
Tyson was not a muslim. He faked the funk when he got out of jail. Calo, you
are anything but super....
Kip King
I'm glad that you agree on Foreman since he's the oldest man at any
weight to hold a world title. A real linear title too, not one of
those dime a dozen, fake, WBwhatever paper titles.
Kip
Eric Taylor
Well you know how it is with fighters, everytime they lose, they have
some excuse, "I was undertrained," or "I was overtrained," and they vow
next time it will be different, and you know . . . every now and then
an older fighter pulls out a grand performance that defies father age,
but in a way this is the most cruel jest of all because it makes them
go on when they should really quit.
If you read any Ali biography you'll see exactly what excuse Ali had,
unfortunately he had a really tremendous one.
He had this quack of a doctor give him pills that helped him lose
weight. They were thyroid supplements. Now if you know anything
about how the thyroid works, you know that yes, you can lose weight
taking these pills but unless you are actually ill with a thyroid
condition, what also happens is you lose all of your endurance and
strength from being on these things. Ali, being the vain man that he
was fooled himself into thinking these pills were good for him, after
all his waist size got so tiny.
In the Holmes fight it was clear after the 2nd round that Ali was
completely out of gas. Now parkinson's syndrome really doesn't affect
your endurance, it affects your balance, your reflexes and muscle
coordination. The pills in addition to his brain damage were what made
him look so terribly old against Holmes.
Well after that fight, Ali realized that the pills screwed him up and
this unfortunately gave him enough of an excuse to try to grab the
brass ring one more time.
The Berbick fight was actually pretty close, now that Ali was only
battling against Parkinson's syndrome instead of both his brain damage
and thyroid pills. Thankfully Ali lost this fight. If the same judges
were there that gifted Ali with the '76 Norton decision Ali would have
had to suffer yet another beating.
--- edt
Pastor Marc
Ali's fight with Berbick. I remember Ali calling Frazier the day of
the fight wishing him luck and vice versa before Ali's fight with
Berbick. And you thought these guys hated each other ....
Pastor Marc
body punishment he took near the end of the first round was really
hard to watch.
Otherwise, I thought Ali was more competitive in this fight than he
was in the Holmes fight, and I even gave him a few rounds. But his
punches were about as strong as the state puff marshamllow man's, and
he was pooped out after 8 rounds.
Mike
MrStr...@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message news:<7cfd37d2.04011...@posting.google.com>...
> I've never understood why Ali decided to fight Trevor Berbick in 1981.
>
> What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
> age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
> the Heavyweight Championship?
>
gom
> I've never understood why Ali decided to fight Trevor Berbick in 1981.
>
> What was Ali thinking? After being beaten so badly by Holmes, and at
> age 39, did Ali still believe he had a chance to fight his way back to
> the Heavyweight Championship?
>
> Or was the Berbick fight a one shot deal that Ali was contractually
> obligated to do for some reason?
>
> Who saw that fight? Was it any good?
Ali had a large entourage that leeched off him. Ali, like Elvis, was
egomaniacal and needed yes-men to tell him he was the best and
greatest. These people hung around basically to live off Ali, and Ali
knew this but emotionally depended on them.
To support these guys, Ali climbed back into the ring. It was both
selfless and selfish: to support his friends, but so that they would
pat him on the back and go on calling him the greatest.