Hamed v Kelley
sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk
It looks like Naseem Hamed could be fighting Kevin Kelley in December with
the winner likely to face Junior Jones in July. (Jones v McKinney on the same
December bill at Madison Square Garden)
Does anyone have any predictions as to who will win in Kelley and Hamed?
I'm putting my money on Hamed by KO between rounds 5 and 8.
Mark
Ivan Weiss
I have been the first to criticize Hamed for a lot of things but in this
case I agree with you. Kelley's legs are shot IMO and he has been getting
by on guile lately. Hamed could be fighting Jones or McKinney, either of
whom would test him severely, but instead he's fighting Kelley, who is
well past his prime and can't hurt Hamed.
It's not a real test for Hamed, but even so Kelley is better than most of
the bottom feeders the Prince has been in with. Let's see him against
Junior Jones, Luisito Espinosa, Cesar Soto, or even Hector Lizarraga.
Ivan Weiss
Seattle Times
iwei...@seatimes.com
Standard disclaimer
The Sanity Cruzer
sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> It looks like Naseem Hamed could be fighting Kevin Kelley in December with
> the winner likely to face Junior Jones in July. (Jones v McKinney on the same
> December bill at Madison Square Garden)
> Does anyone have any predictions as to who will win in Kelley and Hamed?
> I'm putting my money on Hamed by KO between rounds 5 and 8.
Off of the top of my head, I pick Hamed within 3 rounds. Kelley, always
relatively hitable, is nowadays relying upon his winning a war of
attrition in many of his fights. Given Hamed's incredible (to me) power
for a featherweight, his ability to strike from odd angles, and his
speed, I expect Kelley to succumb to Hamed's power before Kevin is able
to put any hurt on Naseem. Kelley's only hope IMO is to land a 'lucky'
shot, timing one of Hamed's attacks and catching him flushly on a sweet
spot.
In Kelley's fights with Troy Dorsey (years ago, but a war if I ever saw
one), Angel Gonzalez, Ricardo Rivera (who 'woulda thunk' Kevin would
comeback and win during that fight?), and Derrick Gainer, Kevin took
tons of punishment, even when he ended up victorious. IMO, there is no
way he can afford to do so in a fight with Naseem Hamed. In the fights
in which Kelley was able to absorb punishment and still emerge the
winner, he was not in with a big banger. That will not be the case in a
fight with Naseem Hamed.
I expect Hamed will be an overwhelming favorite against Kelley, as will
Junior Jones in his fight against Kennedy McKinney. If either of the
fight's odds are even close, I know I'll be placing a bet.
Unfortunately, I highly doubt the odds will be less than 6-1 for either
fight. And homie don't play that.
The Sanity Cruzer
To send me e-mail, remove "SPAMBLOCK" from my address.
Derrick Brasslett
sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> It looks like Naseem Hamed could be fighting Kevin Kelley in December with
> the winner likely to face Junior Jones in July. (Jones v McKinney on the same
> December bill at Madison Square Garden)
> Does anyone have any predictions as to who will win in Kelley and Hamed?
> I'm putting my money on Hamed by KO between rounds 5 and 8.
I think your bet is safe. It will probably be an entertaining fight
while it lasts, but Kelley will inevitably get hit and hurt, and his
legs won't hold him up. This is an example of a marketable fight
(especially here in the US) but not IMO an especially competitive one.
I'd rather see Kelly win, but my pick is Hamed KO8 after Kelly takes a
beating.
Derrick
Gisela Field
I am an avid naysayer of Naseem Hamed and a fan of Kevin Kelley. Both guys
can hit and both have less than great defense. I say Kelley comes off the
floor to stop Hamed in the fifth. later.
D.Bonnett
steve
pliesenberg wrote:
>
> Finally a good matchup for Hamed. I do think Kelley is a bit
> past his prime (which of Hamed's opponent's isn't?), but he has
> the speed to counterpunch Hamed, and the power to hurt him is
> he counters him well. I also think Kelley has the more able
> defense, although he's been slugging it out a bit too much
> as of late. I'd say, hard-pressed, and without a lot of
> confidence... Kelley wins this. And hamed comes back from
> the experience a far better and mature fighter.
>
> ...paul
You Yanks cannot accept it that you don't have the best.Hamed is a
GREAT fighter.He has beaten three ex champs and has destroyed everyone
who has stood in front of him.He plays with his opponents just to keep
it interesting.
WCrimi
Hamed has looked awesome to me. My problem with him is size. He looks totally
filled out at this point and I think he will have difficulty moving up in
weight class eventually. At the higher weights his power will be less
effective and his style flaws exposed.
Ted Conley
steve wrote:
> pliesenberg wrote:
> >
> > Finally a good matchup for Hamed. I do think Kelley is a bit
> > past his prime (which of Hamed's opponent's isn't?), but he has
> > the speed to counterpunch Hamed, and the power to hurt him is
> > he counters him well. I also think Kelley has the more able
> > defense, although he's been slugging it out a bit too much
> > as of late. I'd say, hard-pressed, and without a lot of
> > confidence... Kelley wins this. And hamed comes back from
> > the experience a far better and mature fighter.
> >
> > ...paul
> You Yanks cannot accept it that you don't have the best.Hamed is a
> GREAT fighter.
From what I read in RSB, it seems that it's usually the Brits who take the
Hamed threads personally. Plenty of folks in the U.S. appreciate that
Hamed
is a formidable fighter, but not all people stateside are gonna love him.
Get
off it.
--
REMOVE THE 2 "$" SIGNS WHEN SENDING MAIL TO THE REPLY ADDRESS (NO SPAM)
pliesenberg
pliesenberg
steve (de...@erols.com) wrote:
: pliesenberg wrote:
: >
: > Finally a good matchup for Hamed. I do think Kelley is a bit
: GREAT fighter.He has beaten three ex champs and has destroyed everyone
: who has stood in front of him.He plays with his opponents just to keep
: it interesting.
I ain't a yank, really. Regularly root for foreign fighters,
get pissed off at the fact that fighters like Lennox Lewis
or, in his time, Herol Graham get no respect from the US
media.
I must say that Hamed's management has learned the "yank"
rules on how to perfectly market a fighter with minimum risk
perfectly well. Choosing opponents with a smartness I find
commendable, yet a bit distorting.
I do bow my head at Hamed's awesome natural potential. But I
also think he'll find out, along the way, that there's a reason
why there's some traditional aspects to boxing styles, why
it's good to hold one's hands up, why it's good to throw
punches from positions that leave as little as possible
of a countering opportunity. If he fights top opponents
with regularity, he'll find out.
Hamed is a very good fighter. And I am looking forward to
him proving he's the best, preferably by beating Kelley,
Barrera, Jones and Espinoza. Oh, I *really* look forward
to that.
No disrespect whatsoever to Britain's school of boxing, which
I've always said has produced some great, and under-appreciated,
boxers. For instance - where's Adrian Dodson? I was expecting
him to contend for world titles by now, as he seemed to have
phenomenal natural ability (rivalling Hamed's, and more
conventional in style) 2 years ago?
...paul
The Sanity Cruzer
Do you have any money which says that?
The Sanity Cruzer
posted & mailed
raulposada
Hamed is naturally gifted but until he beats the likes of MAB, J.Jones, or
even an old Canizales it is difficult to take him seriously. Boom Boom
Johnson was finished by the time he fought Hamed and he still managed to
drop him once.
Hamed's defense is non-existent and any world class boxer that can deal
with his power will beat him. As for Kelley, it is too late for him to
beat Hamed. He will get rocked repeatedly and will probably refuse to go
down. It is a very dangerous fight for Kelley at this stage in his career
and I fear for his safety. When he was younger I would have bet even money
against a prime Hamed but right now, Hamed will destroy him.
Donald D. MacAngus
steve wrote:
>
> You Yanks cannot accept it that you don't have the best.
As a Yank (actually a displaced Scott) I can say that I don't give a
hang where the guy is from. I just want to see a good fight.
> Hamed is a GREAT fighter.
He is a flashy fighter on the BRINK of greatness... IF he fights the big
fights. Most of his fights have been against forgettable opponents.
There have been MANY fighters who built up impressive records by
steamrolling chumps. Hamad had certainly laid the groundwork for a
brilliant career. But now he needs to step up the competition and unify
his title. Otherwise he is destined to become just another flashy
fighter who once held one of the belts.
> He has beaten three ex champs and has destroyed everyone who has
> stood in front of him.
I agree. Now I just want to see him beat some REIGNING champs.
> He plays with his opponents just to keep it interesting.
Let him play with the big boys now. Then everyone will have to give him
the proper respect.
--
Big D
Don MacAngus, Santa Cruz, CA
http://www.earthlink.net/~bigdatsc/
sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk
On 04/10/97 07:47, in message <19971004144...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
WCrimi <wcr...@aol.com> wrote:
He is only 5ft3 and is small as a featherweight. I have noticed that he has
had more problems since he moved up to featherweight. Down at Bantamweight he
looked perfect in build and height since everyone else was similar. As he has
moved up in weight he has had to adapt to the fact that he always has a height
and reach disadvantage, something that was not as pronounced down at
Bantamweight. He will have real problems at Super Featherweight as people such
as Genaro Hernandez tower over him and pick him off from a distance. Hamed's
style is best suited to fighters than come after him, when he faces high
quality boxers that can punch and that have vast height/reach advantages in the
weight's above he will face pretty nasty problems (this is coming from a Hamed
fan). He would be well advised to stay below Super Featherweight and clean up
down at Featherweight and Super Featherweight. He has some good matchups down
at these weights where his height disadvantage won't cause him any really
terrible problems and where his power can always be used as an equaliser in the
hard fights.
It's such a shame many people didn't witness his performances at the lower
weights when his potential that everyone raved about could be clearly seen
(Even though his overall style has changed a bit with experience). He has now
been hyped up as a really big puncher and it's as though he is trying to live
up to this by predicting knocking everyone out in the second round, putting
pressure on himself and causing him to make stupid mistakes while planting his
feet and trying desperately to find the big shot (Just look at the Medina and
Johnson fights). It might impress the teeny bop Naz fans that have emerged in
England but I can see that the serious fight fans in America don't give a damn
about all that and are more keen to see how he can actually fight behind the
hype.
Mark
Derrick Brasslett
Ivan Weiss wrote:
> > He's (Adrian Dodson) scheduled to fight Ron "Winky" Wright on Oct 11,
> for Wright's WBO
> > title. I believe it's on the same card as Hamed, where he also defends
> > his WBO title.
>
> Is that on HBO? The Fight TV Web site lists Julian Jackson vs. Arthur
> Allen on HBO.Is there American TV?
AFAIK, it won't be televised here. If it were, it'd be on Showtime due
to the promotional ties.
> Winky is always worth watching. Talk
> about a clinic in how to box! I'm surprised no one mentions him as an
> opponent for Trinidad, De La Hoya, Quartey or Norris. He might not beat
> any of them, but he'd cause any of them a lot of problems, and would have
> a fighting chance.
I agree he'd give any of them an interesting challenge. He's got no
power, but he is difficult to hit. Of course, he's a titlist which
creates the usual promotional problems *and* he's at least good enough
to make any of the above look bad, without a big payday. We're more
likely to see Oba Carr (again) even after his less-than-impressive draw
last night vs Anthony Jones.
Derrick
Ivan Weiss
On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Derrick Brasslett wrote:
> I agree he'd (Wright) give any of them an interesting challenge. He's
got no
> power, but he is difficult to hit. Of course, he's a titlist which
> creates the usual promotional problems *and* he's at least good enough
> to make any of the above look bad, without a big payday.
Winky is not only hard to hit, he lands a lot of punches and has an
incredible work rate. I have to think Trinidad, Norris, Oscar or Quartey
could wear him down with body shots and eventually beat him, but before
they did, Winky would puff up their faces like one of those microwave bags
of popcorn.
We're more
> likely to see Oba Carr (again) even after his less-than-impressive draw
> last night vs Anthony Jones.
I couldn't watch that fight closely (I was on company time and only caught
glimpses of it) but I have been watching both Carr and Jones for years,
and IMO this was an even matchup from the start. Jones has always been
able to beat guys to the punch inside. If he had more power he'd have
had some belt long ago. It's no surprise he made Carr look bad. Look at
who Jones has been in with. Jones is not some "opponent."
I hope people give Carr some credit for taking on a tough opponent like
Jones and giving the hometown fans a decent fight for a change instead of
a ho-hummer against some tomato can. When do you ever see two homies duke
it out for bragging rights any more? This wasn't Tapia-Romero or anything,
but this kind of fight was commonplace when I was a kid.
Phrank Da Slugger
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971008...@seatimes.seatimes.com>, Ivan
Weiss <iwei...@seatimes.com> wrote:
> I hope people give Carr some credit for taking on a tough opponent like
> Jones and giving the hometown fans a decent fight for a change instead of
> a ho-hummer against some tomato can. When do you ever see two homies duke
> it out for bragging rights any more? This wasn't Tapia-Romero or anything,
> but this kind of fight was commonplace when I was a kid.
Agreed! I get sick of watching guys like Chris Byrd fight against nobodies
all the time. Carr has had the tough luck of being around when 3 of the
best fighters in the world hold the titles in his division. He's always
fought tough guys, and Jones was no exception. I hope people won't have a
negative attitude because he drew w/a solid fighter. He coulda fought Jake
Torrence and gotten another meaningless KO...
'Course this is the day and age when if a young fighter loses one fight
he's written off...
--
Phrank Da Slugger
Editor/Publisher "Bob's Feints"
Send me your snail mail address
and I'll return w/a sample issue
----------------------------------
The Internet Boxing Records Archive
Patrick M. Kehoe
Phrank,
Yes... Oba has had the great misfortune to be stuck in a LOADED division
... a championship level loaded division to boot... he is a true
professional with excellent skills and always fights at a top level with
commitment and conditioning... really a nice fighter to watch as well...
he situation reminds me of the middleweights in the mid late 1970's when
about six or seven of the fighters who never got to the top were
incredible fighters having to line up against Monzon, Valdez, Corro,
Hagler... etc. there were sooooo many amazing fighters...
--
Patrick97.
Mr. David M. Murphy
Derrick wrote:
I agree he'd give any of them an interesting challenge. He's got no
power, but he is difficult to hit. Of course, he's a titlist which
creates the usual promotional problems *and* he's at least good
enough to make any of the above look bad, without a big payday. We're
morelikely to see Oba Carr (again) even after his less-than-impressive
draw last night vs Anthony Jones.
Derrick:
Funny,but I was thinking the exact same thing.This draw may
open up doors for Carr that the impressive loss to Ike Quartey had
effectively closed.
Dave
Raju Karia
I say Kelley will marginally win this one. Look at the Kelley-Gainer
fight and one can see what Kelley's made of. He got knocked down
and took a real beating early in the fight, but still came back and
won by TKO. This against someone much larger than him.
In terms of heart and experience, Kelley has the goods to give Hamed
the fight of his life.
RK
Gregg
absorb his power.Hamed will want to send a loud message to the Americans
and he will knock Kelley out by round two.
ChrisAC
Yes, I also see him wanting to send a message to us Americans. He made a
comment that "he thinks he can win over the American boxing public with
his power, and dramatic style". Well, get ready to see some power, and
dramatic style Dec 16, baby!
MARCIANOisTG
Prince Naseem Hamed USA Invasion
http://conti.home.ml.org
Ivan Weiss
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, Raju Karia wrote:
> I say Kelley will marginally win this one. Look at the Kelley-Gainer
> fight and one can see what Kelley's made of. He got knocked down
> and took a real beating early in the fight, but still came back and
> won by TKO. This against someone much larger than him.
>
> In terms of heart and experience, Kelley has the goods to give Hamed
> the fight of his life.
Unaccustomed as I am to speaking up for Hamed, he has a lot bigger punch
than Gainer. And if our friends reporting from the UK are correct about
Hamed beating Badillo behind a jab, then that's good news for Hamed and
his fans and bad news for everyone else. I watched Hamed in some fights
and thought he didn't even know what a jab was.
Gregg
d...@gte.net wrote:
>
> On Thu, 02 Oct 97 02:26:55 GMT, sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> > It looks like Naseem Hamed could be fighting Kevin Kelley in December with
> >the winner likely to face Junior Jones in July. (Jones v McKinney on the same
> >December bill at Madison Square Garden)
> > Does anyone have any predictions as to who will win in Kelley and Hamed?
> >I'm putting my money on Hamed by KO between rounds 5 and 8.
> >
> >
>
> This fiight will feature the wreckless
> abandonment of youth and the heart of
> of the elder lion. While wisdom does not
> come with youth, a wiley type may be able
> to pull off a win in a duel with a young
> fighter if that young fighter thinks that
> youth and strength are the only ingredients
> of victory.
>
> DCI
All that wiley crap goes out the window when Hamed cracks kelley in the
head.We have seen what Naseem can do when he plays.What can he do when
he is serious.If I had to lay money on one fighter today to win it would
be Hamed.Kelley is going to get killed.
d...@gte.net
d...@gte.net
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:14:04 -0400, Gregg <dev...@erols.com> wrote:
>All that wiley crap goes out the window when Hamed cracks kelley in the
>head.We have seen what Naseem can do when he plays.What can he do when
>he is serious.If I had to lay money on one fighter today to win it would
>be Hamed.Kelley is going to get killed.
Then I guess we'll have to wait and see,
Gregg.
DCI
BoyMayo
Since we didn't get this fight in the U.S., my question is: Did Hamed work the
jab from both sides, or just from the southpaw stance?
.....BoyMayo
Johnboy
Raju Karia wrote:
> I say Kelley will marginally win this one. Look at the Kelley-Gainer
> fight and one can see what Kelley's made of. He got knocked down
> and took a real beating early in the fight, but still came back and
> won by TKO. This against someone much larger than him.
Make no mistake about Kelley v. Gainer. It said a lot about Kelley's
heart, but it also said a lot about his deteriorating abilities. Gainer
was clearly winning that fight. With Kelley's eye closed, all Gainer had
to do was continue to circle to his left, hit him, and circle left
again, and Kelley was on his way to a clear cut decision loss or late
round KO. Instead, Gainer lost his patience, went in and slugged with
Kelley, and Kelley put him out. Kelley won that fight because he has the
guts to stick with it and Gainer was stupid.
Hamed is faster, stronger, and a better puncher than Gainer. He likes to
clown a lot, and this sometimes costs him. The only way I can see Kelley
winning this fight is the same way he won against Gainer - capitalizing
on his opponent's stupidity.
Johnboy
sm...@audio.softnet.co.uk
>
> Unaccustomed as I am to speaking up for Hamed, he has a lot bigger punch
> than Gainer. And if our friends reporting from the UK are correct about
> Hamed beating Badillo behind a jab, then that's good news for Hamed and
> his fans and bad news for everyone else. I watched Hamed in some fights
> and thought he didn't even know what a jab was.
>
> Ivan Weiss
> Seattle Times
> iwei...@seatimes.com
> Standard disclaimer
>
I was shocked when watching this fight. He never jabs and that was
virtually all he did through this one. His jab is very hard and I would even
dare to say that he could take some people out with it (or cause some big
hurt). When he has jabbed before it has been very flicky from the elbow and has
hardly been worth throwing. He has obviously been working on it. Hamed had
recently fallen into the trap that Roy Jones has of throwing big blinding hooks
out from distance. When they connect they cause mass destruction but when they
miss they look really bad and open for countering. He admitted after the
Johnson fight that he had tried too hard for the KO and that he needed to work
on some new moves after moving up into world class. I think what he displayed
on Saturday is the start of new Hamed. He didn't rush trying to make his
prediction in the 3rd, he even adopted a guard at times. He threw his lead
uppercut about twice and it worked really well because it looks like a jab that
suddenly twists into an uppercut and since he was jabbing a lot it really threw
Badillo off. He also looked very fit and had hardly broke a sweat after 7
rounds. He was also completely unmarked.
Since Ivan hasn't seen the fight I guess it hasn't been shown at all in
America which I think is pretty stupid since his next fight is in America and
he needs to show a decent performance against a good opponent because otherwise
interest is going to be a bit slim. Badillo was the no.1 contender for his WBO
belt and was a big puncher with one defeat to Tom Johnson.
By the way, he took two big left's and a couple of right hooks from the
southpaw clean on the chin while getting in a tearup and he didn't budge in the
slightest, so if anybody thinks his chin is bad, think again.
Mark