Victor Ortiz Exposed
D. Flynn
Of The Year- was just stopped by Marcos Maidana, an Argentinian w/
tremendous handspeed and heart.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4292363
De La Hoya's overhyped, glassjawed prospect all but quit while Maidana
picked himself off the canvas after being thrice dropped in the first
two rounds.
Hopefully HBO will feature "El Chino" in more fights and ignore
Ortiz, who alluded to retirement after the fight.
oscar levant jr.
<cfe356ff-48d9-48c5...@j3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
"D. Flynn" <gu...@msn.com> wrote:
I have to agree. I was extremely disappointed and shocked at
Ortiz' extraordinarily cavalier and 'who gives a shit' attitude
after his drubbing by Maidana. The poor kid has no heart.
Better luck next time, Oscar. Try for talent over looks, for starters.
D. Flynn
> In article
> <cfe356ff-48d9-48c5-81cd-76bbbb1ab...@j3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
If Ortiz was trying to piss off the Mexican fans he couldn't have done
a better job.
One reason they're upset is that the top Mex fighters are either
washed up or retired and the up 'n' comers like Ortiz, Angulo and
Chavez Jr. have been disappointing so far to say the least.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
Victor Irtiz was born in Garden City, Kansas. He is an American.
DCI
D. Flynn
>
> - Show quoted text -
I was including US fighters of Mexican descent like Ortiz and Oscar in
my description.
I wonder if in the midst of his shellacking Victor said "Toto, I don't
think we're in Kansas anymore."
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>> Victor Ortiz was born in Garden City, Kansas. He is an American.
>>
>> DCI- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I was including US fighters of Mexican descent like Ortiz and Oscar in
>my description.
>
>I wonder if in the midst of his shellacking Victor said "Toto, I don't
>think we're in Kansas anymore."
Ortiz is smart, young and capable of learning what went wrong,
especially, after he views the tapes and takes note that Maidana
set up to throw short left hooks and chopping right hands while Ortiz
was just swinging for the fences. It was good fight and Maidana showed
incredible staying power.
DCI
Melanie Ley
wrote:
>Golden Boy Promotions' Next Big Thing Victor Ortiz- the 2008 Prospect
>Of The Year- was just stopped by Marcos Maidana, an Argentinian w/
>tremendous handspeed and heart.
>
>http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4292363
>
>De La Hoya's overhyped, glassjawed prospect all but quit while Maidana
>picked himself off the canvas after being thrice dropped in the first
>two rounds.
Wasn't one eye swollen closed and the other had a nasty cut? I
think I'd quit, too, if I couldn't see. Victor has plenty of heart -
he's not stupid.
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
> Ortiz is smart, young and capable of learning what went wrong,
> especially, after he views the tapes and takes note that Maidana
> set up to throw short left hooks and chopping right hands while Ortiz
> was just swinging for the fences. It was good fight and Maidana showed
> incredible staying power.
I don't know what potential Ortiz has.....all I know is what I
saw in the ring -- he rolled over. He refused to go out on
his shield. This is NEVER the sign of a true champ.
And I must repeat -- his cavalier attitude in the after-fight
interview absolutely floored me. It was not the response
of a true fighter, but rather one of a school-girl getting
caught smoking in the bathroom.
Extremely disappointing.
ne...@millions.com
So you sort of like a fighter to give every last ounce of his being
and then be carried for the last time on a stretcher for the trip to
the morgue?
DCI
D. Flynn
I know there have been boxers who revived their careers after quitting
in a fight (Duran, Vitali K.) but I'm not sure about Ortiz.
In his post-fight interview, which Dan Rafael called "stunning", Ortiz
was laughing, acting like he didn't give a damn about the loss and
hinting at retirement. Let's see if he can bounce back after this.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
D., what behavior(s) would you have preferred Victor Ortiz show during
the interview?
I thought - my opinion - that Ortiz was genuine and was very honest.
DCI
D. Flynn
I thought he should have been more serious and less jovial.
>
> I thought - my opinion - that Ortiz was genuine and was very honest.
I also appreciate his honesty especially since his post -fight
comments will likely lose him a lot of fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLrHSMuYCs
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
This goes along the line when a fighter danced about the ring,
shouting and screaming after being beaten by his opponent. His shouts
were clear about his joy, "I am still alive, I am still alive."
DCI
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
> >Extremely disappointing.
> So you sort of like a fighter to give every last ounce of his being
> and then be carried for the last time on a stretcher for the trip to
> the morgue?
>
> DCI
Oh, come on. Ortiz was no where NEAR being carried out
to the morgue on a stretcher. Do you know anything about
the history of the sport? Thousands of fighters have been
bloodied and beaten far worse than Ortiz, but still manage
to go the distance. Why is it so hard for you to accept the
fact that Ortiz simply gave up? He wasn't beaten to a pulp.
Look at the interview - he's laughing and smiling.
No heart, no champ. Mark my words.
ne...@millions.com
Gee, I guess I know little of the Sweet Science.
Carry on.
DCI
Melanie Ley
wrote:
I thought he did very well for a 23-year old kid. If he loses
fans because he refused to keep going and not sustain further
injuries, then he doesn't need those fans. He made the statement that
he still wanted to be able to speak clearly when he gets older - makes
him a smart feller in my book.
Mel
________________________
Amateur boxing news
at www.amateurboxing.com
Melanie Ley
Donn, isn't it nice to know we have such a knowledgeable
expert to share his caca with us RSBers!
ne...@millions.com
thelordmemnoch
> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:32:07 -0700, "oscar levant jr."
>
>
>
>
>
> <mee...@two.com> wrote:
> > ne...@millions.com wrote:
>
> >> Ortiz is smart, young and capable of learning what went wrong,
> >> especially, after he views the tapes and takes note that Maidana
> >> set up to throw short left hooks and chopping right hands while Ortiz
> >> was just swinging for the fences. It was good fight and Maidana showed
> >> incredible staying power.
>
> >I don't know what potential Ortiz has.....all I know is what I
> >saw in the ring -- he rolled over. He refused to go out on
> >his shield. This is NEVER the sign of a true champ.
>
> >And I must repeat -- his cavalier attitude in the after-fight
> >interview absolutely floored me. It was not the response
> >of a true fighter, but rather one of a school-girl getting
> >caught smoking in the bathroom.
>
> >Extremely disappointing.
>
> So you sort of like a fighter to give every last ounce of his being
> and then be carried for the last time on a stretcher for the trip to
> the morgue?
>
He wasn't that hurt, but that is not even the point. There is a reason
Roy Jones Jr. was the first and only boxer who had disgruntled fans
clamoring for a "Roycott". He is by far one of the smartest boxers in
terms of business, but won't be remembered for his thrilling fights.
Don't get me wrong, if I were related to Roy I would think that he is
the smartest fighter that ever lived. As a fan I don't like him very
much. He does have his fan base though I can't imagine that any would
argue about his "warrior mentality" He simply didn't have it. The same
with this kid. No heart and no warrior instinct so he will make his
money, live on to take care of his family, but an easily forgotten
fighter.
ne...@millions.com
Interesting post. so what do your words have anything to do with
Victor Ortiz?
DCI
D. Flynn
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've seen a ton of comments on espn.com and youtube dealing w/this
fight. The fightfans are basically split with half saying Ortiz did
the smart thing by pulling the plug and the other half calling him a
quitter w/no heart and no future.
If so many people are interested in this young man he may yet become a
star. After all, the next time he fights a major league opponenta it's
going to be must-see tv.
Melanie Ley
<thelord...@gmail.com> wrote:
So you are saying that in order to have heart and warrior
instinct, you must be willing to die, or come close to dying, in the
ring?
Victor Ortiz has heart and his warrior instinct opted for
remaining as injury free as possible. I've known him since he was 15
and would never describe him as a coward.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:46:55 -0700 (PDT), thelordmemnoch
Interestingly, no one has mentioned the shot Ortiz took to the liver
when he went dow for the last time. Had he straightened up and tried
to continue, he would have been totally vulnerable to Maidana's
attack. Rules say: protect yourself at all times.
But we'll just have to tolerate the opinions contrary to the common
sense strength of Victor Ortiz.
DCI
SkippyPB
IMO, those fight fans that thought Ortiz "quit" are the same brainless
barbarians that watch cage matches and all those other stunt men
oriented fist fights masquerading as a sport. UFC, MMA...all of them
are not much more than a bunch of tough guys beating the crap out of
each other, blood and body parts flying and fans screaming. I think
it must of been the same scene in the Roman Empire when they fed the
Christians to the Lions.
Oliver McCall quit on his seat. Ortiz quit because he was beaten and
had no hope of winning. Big difference. I respect what Ortiz did and
believe he'll come back better the next time.
Regards,
////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-
"Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped."
-- Groucho Marx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remove nospam to email me.
Steve
oscar levant jr.
Melanie Ley <box...@cox.net> wrote:
> So you are saying that in order to have heart and warrior
> instinct, you must be willing to die, or come close to dying, in the
> ring?
>
> Victor Ortiz has heart and his warrior instinct opted for
> remaining as injury free as possible. I've known him since he was 15
> and would never describe him as a coward.
You have to be willing to do what it takes to take your opponent
down. This is a SPORT, man. And are you saying the Ortiz came close to
DYING?
Sheeit. He was laughing the whole time.
And if a boxer's main desire is to stay as injury-free as possible,
he's definitely in the wrong freakin' game. Injuries are GOING
to happen, and happen a lot.
Course, he is a 'Golden Boy', so maybe he really IS mainly
concerned about marring his choir-boy face.
No, Ortiz will be but a footnote in boxing history -- if that.
Anybody that rolls over as fast as he did can have NO heart.
That said, I'm sure he's a nice guy. He's just not a top-drawer
fighter.
ne...@millions.com
Your the kind of fan, it seems, who goes to auto racing events to see
the crashes.
Enjoy.
DCI
Melanie Ley
That kind of fan resides in my killfile. }-;>
I didn't see the fight and Rick did. Rick said the fight was
actually stopped by Dr. Paul Wallace at the end of the round. So, did
Victor actually quit or was the bout stopped by the doc?
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
In my humble opinion from watching the bout of TV, I thought the cut
above the right eye of Ortiz was sever enough to stop it the first
time doctor looked at it. I think the doctor made a "pending decision"
regarding the decision, "Let it go to see if he (Ortiz) can respond
and protect himself." The referee then let it and made the decision.
While doctor's are not the determinant factor of a fighter's ability
to carry on in spite of injury, they often are the saviors of a
fighter's career. There is little glory in taking a needless beating
or risking further injury in a boxing match.
Victor Ortiz is still in control of his destiny due to the avoidance
of furthering a more severe cut.
I can not even begin to list the names of fighters among my friends
and contacts who are walking around with a constant ringing in their
ears, partial or totally detached retinas, the stiff-jawed speech
pattern related to brain injuries, enough scar tissue around the eyes
and cheeks to make a wallet, all, because they were allowed to go
beyond the limit.
Mel, remember Bernhart Scwartz, a doctor on the California Athletic
Commission? For him in some - one is too many - cases, burial was a
good reason to stop a fight. Ah, those were the days.
DCI
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
>
> Your the kind of fan, it seems, who goes to auto racing events to see
> the crashes.
>
> Enjoy.
I don't go to auto races, can't stand them. What I DO like is to see
somebody give their ALL, in whatever their pursuit may be, in order
to bring home a win.
Ortiz acted like he didn't even CARE about this fight.
Can you imagine Ali, Foreman, Tyson, Liston, Robinson, etc
etc etc etc etc etc, doing what Ortiz did?
Face it, man. He rolled over. He's a quitter. No heart.
Like I said, if you're not willing to take some lumps in
the ring, don't get in the game in the first place.
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
> There is little glory in taking a needless beating
> or risking further injury in a boxing match.
You'd be singing a much different tune if Ortiz had
continued fighting and score a KO a round or two
later. We see this happen all the time.
For the last time: He wasn't injured that badly.
His chuckling and giggling in the post-bout
interview says it all.
ne...@millions.com
Take it to the limit. What's your win-loss record?
DCI
ne...@millions.com
I don't sing! you're a soprano in a base world.
DCI
Melanie Ley
>
>In my humble opinion from watching the bout of TV, I thought the cut
>above the right eye of Ortiz was sever enough to stop it the first
>time doctor looked at it. I think the doctor made a "pending decision"
>regarding the decision, "Let it go to see if he (Ortiz) can respond
>and protect himself." The referee then let it and made the decision.
Let alone the big bulge under his right eye.
>Mel, remember Bernhart Scwartz, a doctor on the California Athletic
>Commission? For him in some - one is too many - cases, burial was a
>good reason to stop a fight. Ah, those were the days.
>
>DCI
Bernie Schwartz was a living legend, even while alive. He
always wore a white coat splattered with blood stains and a pocket
full of pens that he WOULD NOT lend to anyone and he always fell
asleep toward the end of any event! My favorite recollection of
Bernie is the evening there was a show at the old Carson gym and
Bernie was taking a nap in the office. I was sitting with him when a
pro boxer walked in to make an appointment to get checked out. Bernie
opened one eye, looked sleepily at the kid, and said, "you look okay
to me." And promptly went back to sleep.
His office was in South Central L.A. deliberately and he took
care of the poor people when no one else would.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:17:04 -0700, ne...@millions.com wrote:
His office was located, as I recall, at 11th Place and Main. He was
schooled as an osteopath, not medical doctor.
If you recall, his nose had "that" characteristic bend. Yup! amature
boxing in his youthful years.
I knew him very well.
DCI
SkippyPB
The objective in boxing is to hit and not be hit. It's not to take
lumps. Its not to be beaten senseless. Its not to bleed all over the
place or lose your eye sight. If you achieve your objective, you'll
win the fight by KO or decision.
Take Ricardo Lopez for example. Retired with a record of 51-0-1. Do
you think he ever had an injury like Ortiz did? Nope. That's how he
got to 51-0-1. Better to stop now and live to fight another day than
to be permanently injured. Having a ringside doctor insures that
maxim is enforced.
Melanie Ley
>His office was located, as I recall, at 11th Place and Main. He was
>schooled as an osteopath, not medical doctor.
>
There were definitely times we weren't sure he knew what he
was doing....... };-> He must have been on of the first DOs ever.
ne...@millions.com
wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:22:19 -0700, ne...@millions.com wrote:
The history of the open philosophical antagonisms b/w M.D.'s and
Osteopaths dates back to the first years of the 1900's. Schwartz
graduated from COP in 1939. He was, as you observed, was the doctor to
the po'folks of south LA and the Watts area. He collected bills when
he could, but he provided care first, often without compensation for
his attending folks without money or insurance.
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
> I don't sing! you're a soprano in a base world.
I am surprised not at all. And 'bass' is the generally accepted
spelling for the word you have in mind.
oscar levant jr.
SkippyPB <swie...@Nospam.neo.rr.com> wrote:
> The objective in boxing is to hit and not be hit. It's not to take
> lumps. Its not to be beaten senseless. Its not to bleed all over the
> place or lose your eye sight. If you achieve your objective, you'll
> win the fight by KO or decision.
That may be, but look at this logically - if no one were hit, or
beaten, or bloodied a bit - we wouldn't have a sport, would we?
It ain't no beauty contest, notwithstanding the seeming aims
of Golden Toy Productions.
oscar levant jr.
ne...@millions.com wrote:
>
> Take it to the limit. What's your win-loss record?
>
> DCI
I'm a fan, not a boxer. But what I do in life, I do to the
utmost, with all the moxy I can muster. And if a
FIGHTER doesn't have that......well, he isn't a fighter
at all, is he?
ne...@millions.com
No, it is base, like the one you can't reach. You're screaming your
silly opinion about what a fighter should do to please you and you
can't get it through your head that fighters fight, not you.
Light a fire cracker on this celebration of the USA's birthday.
Enjoy.
DCI
ne...@millions.com
Who is "we"?
DCI
ne...@millions.com
Answer your own questions because it's quite obvious any other
opinions are not pleasing to you.
DCI