Chyna disgraces wrestling
Stan Bolivan
watch. But if Chyna did indeed lose to Joey Buttafuco like someone said
in an earlier post, then all of her wrestling exploits ALTHOUGH FAKE
give all the more credence to what I and many boxing fans have known all
along. The top heavyweight boxing champion will kick the top wrestler's
ass anytime. The only exception is those Brazilian Jujitsu guys. Those
guys are dangerous,deadly and almost impossible to beat!
Keith Patrick
(sport) vs. a pro wrestler (entertainment), and to use Chyna as your basis
is starting on shaky ground. She has very little wrestling background,
beyond a little bit of training by Killer Kowalski. She didn't even wrestle
in her first several years in the WWF, and when she finally did, she stunk
up the place; ask any smark about Chyna's work rate/skill level, and you
will get some rolled eyes. There are quite a few pro-wrestlers who are
legitimate bad-asses (Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit come to mind)
and would give a good boxer a hard time, and those guys aren't even the top
wrestlers (well, Lesnar was an NCAA champ a couple of years ago and Angle
won the gold medal about 6 years ago) today.
I really do think that very few boxers would stand a chance against a very
good grappler, simply because boxers are trained in striking and would not
be used to getting tackled and put in a joint lock or choked.
"Stan Bolivan" <StanB...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25390-3CE...@storefull-2311.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Silverfish
>ass anytime.
Ok Stan,
Glad to know you knwo so much about wrestling.
First off, you call Joanie Laurer "Chyna", do you call Leonard Nimoy "Spock".
She used to be pretty big, muscularly, but she has cut back on the muscles so
she can look more feminine, so if she did lose to a piece of trash, that's ok,
she is a smaller woman than he is a man.
As for Pro Wrestlers Vs Boxers, there have been some matchups of the sort, the
most famous probably being Ali vs Antonio Inoki. Inoki laid on his back and
kicked Ali most of the time.
When a boxer is off his feet, he is vulnerable ... don't you watch UFC?
When the going get's tough, the smart start running.
-Silverfish
Obi-Wan Jabroni
> I know wrestling is fake. Everyone knows it. Its really sickning to
It's sickening to watch? I rather see Eddie Guerrero Vs Dean Malenko
light up the ECW arena or Liger Vs Kanemoto at the Tokyo Egg Dome than
watch 95% of heavyweight boxers plod around.
> watch. But if Chyna did indeed lose to Joey Buttafuco like someone said
> in an earlier post, then all of her wrestling exploits ALTHOUGH FAKE
> give all the more credence to what I and many boxing fans have known all
What are you talking about, Joan Laurer was a female bodybuilder, she
had 6 hours of training with Killer Kowalsky and fancied herself a
wrestler which she was not, she was mainly a curiosity, oddity factor
much like Nicole Bass or Terry Power, she but never was a wrestler,
hell, Chris Jericho was audibly shouting instructions to her on what
to do inside the ring, she was pathetic.
> along. The top heavyweight boxing champion will kick the top wrestler's
> ass anytime. The only exception is those Brazilian Jujitsu guys. Those
> guys are dangerous,deadly and almost impossible to beat!
I could have swore tha Al Sarven AKA Al Snow taught former UFC champ
Dan Severn all he knows about shootfighting when he decided to abandom
amateur wrestling and become an MMA fighter and you can clearly see
Sarven in Severn's corner in the UFC.
Once again a troll like you exposed his ignorance, go ahead, put
Bernard Hopkins in there with fake wrestler Chris Benoit, in a
shootfight with takedowns and submissions he won't last 60 seconds I
garantee you. Hell, fuck Chris Benoit, Hopkins wouldn't last 45 second
with me, 15 seconds on the mat and he'd be dog meat wondering how to
generate leverage on his punches with his back on the mat and the
soles of his boots in the air.
I also seem to remember back in 1989 this young skinny kid called Ken
Shamrock was wrestling in the Eastern Coast wrestling independent
circuit before he was called over to Pancrase to become a shooter
under Masakatsu Funaki's tutelage, he later went on to become an UFC
champ.
I also seem to remember a dude by the name of Sakuraba working some
matches in Japan, didn't he beat god allmighty Royce Gracie?
I also seem to remember these fake wraslers named Greg Gagne, Kurt
Angle, Danny Hodge, Nat Pendleton, Robin Reed, Ed Don George, Jack Van
Bebber, Robert
Pearce, Pete Mehringer, Roy Dunn, Dick Hutton, Bob Roop, Chris Taylor,
Brad Reighans, Greg Hojowski, Duane Koslowski. What do all of them
have in common, all of them were fake pro wraslers yet amusingly
enough all of them represented the United States of America in the
Olympics. ain't that some funny shit coming from fake wraslers?
Isn't Danny Hodge presently the head of the Oklahoma boxing
commission? Not bad for a fake wrestler that brought home the Silver
in 1956 and won the NWA's fake Junior-Heavyweight title. Put a prime
Hodge in there with Roy Jones and Roy would be streched out in an
ambulance, Hodge is easily an all timegreat wrestler, ask anybody from
Jeff Blatnick on down.
Let's see: Perry Saturn a former US army ranger and has extenssive
martial arts background as does Steve Blackman.
Peter "Taz" Senerchia a an Empire State (that's NY for you morons)
Judo champion
Dean Malenko a disciple of the great Karl Gotch who was also a
shooter. Both Dean and his brother Joe have extenssive amateur
background.
Jun Akyama, Hiroshe Hasse, Manabu Nakanishi, Akita Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta
all represented Japan in the Olympics, all of them fake wraslers.
Scott Steiner was a top 8 in the NCAA wrestling and was a 2 time all
american and Rick was also a hot property out of Michigan U before he
busted his knee but was placed 4th in the NCAA in the early 80's and
was also a 2 time all american..
David Schultz, nuff said.
Brock Lesnar, NCAA wrestling heavyweight champion just 2 years ago. Go
ahead, find me a boxer that could beat his ass.
Shelton Benjamin a 2 time NCAA Wrestling All-American out of
Minessota.
Ron Waterman another UFC competitor.
Bob Backlund former NCAA champion at 191 lbs.
Iron Sheik represented Iran in 1968 Olympics, Bronze medal winner.
3 time all american from Oklahoma Steve Williams wrestled the
legendary Bruce Baumgartner and lost by 1/ONE point, not bad for a
fake wrasler.
Mike Rotunda, all american out of Syracuse U.
Both Bret Hart and his brother Dean Hart narrowly failed to qualify
for the Canadian Olympic Wrestling team back in the late 1970's.
Former WCW wrestler Frank Anderson was a 3 time world champ, 5 time
European champ and an Olympic bronze medalist.
Mad Dog Vachon placed 4th in the 1948 Olympics and won gold at the
British Empire games.
Sean Stasiak was an all american out of Oklahoma (I think)
As you can see I seem to remember a lot, maybe had you known a thing
or 2 you have remained quiet and not manifested your ignorance about
Boxing, Wrestling and MMA.
Last I checked women can't beat men so how does Buttafuco's victory
over Joan Laurer prove anything is beyond me since we already knew
women's concussive power is nowhere near a man of the same size.
Tom Bishop
Dan Paik
Stan Bolivan <StanB...@webtv.net> wrote:
>along. The top heavyweight boxing champion will kick the top wrestler's
>ass anytime. The only exception is those Brazilian Jujitsu guys. Those
>guys are dangerous,deadly and almost impossible to beat!
in a streetfight, a top wrestler will beat a top boxer because the
wrestler will just smother the boxer and take him to the ground.
now if it's a boxing match, then of course a top boxer will beat a top
wrestler.
the brazilian jujitsu guys are grapplers just like wrestlers. if you
think the BJJ guys can beat boxers, then why not hold the same logic for
wrestlers?
Dan.
--
RVD...The Whole Dam Show
i was bored one day and ended up making http://www.hanguk.com/~danpaik
Velella...27 ft Catalina. home port: Redondo Beach, CA.
PeterD
> the brazilian jujitsu guys are grapplers just like wrestlers. if you
> think the BJJ guys can beat boxers, then why not hold the same logic for
> wrestlers?
>
> Dan.
Wrestlers are trained to pin their opponents, not submit them...that's
the main difference. Look at Dan Severn ib the early UFCs. He took
opponents down but had few ideas what to do with them when he did.
It's almost impossible for somebody not trained in groundfighting to
avoid being taken down, and the paradox is that a grappler can choose
whether to fight standing up or to take it to the ground whereas an
untrained opponent does not have those options.
I'd say Stan is just a junior troll...he sort of understands his own
questions but has little grasp of the answers he receives.
Peter
YENDOR 20
ass anytime. >>
YENDOR 20
>>
Yeah I watch it.They have had such greats as Art Jimmerson and Melton Bowen in
it.
scott y.
> I really do think that very few boxers would stand a chance against a very
> good grappler, simply because boxers are trained in striking and would not
> be used to getting tackled and put in a joint lock or choked.
Except, of course, for Mike Tyson's opponents or any workman on
the Chitlin' Circuit...
Scott Y.
YENDOR 20
over Joan Laurer prove anything is beyond me since we already knew
women's concussive power is nowhere near a man of the same size.
>>
for saying he would manhandle her.She sure has gotten small.
YENDOR 20
think the BJJ guys can beat boxers, then why not hold the same logic for
wrestlers?
>>
a guy is a great wrestler he can beat any boxer.Some guys just go for points in
wrestling and are just good under those rules.Just like other sports.
RobRPM2222
>in
>it.
>
>
The UFC tries to get the best boxers it can. Until the UFC has boxing-sized
paydays, you won't see any top level boxers in it, period. I can't fault boxers
for taking the bigger payday, although I do wish they felt a greater need to
test out their skills in other format.
The closest that we've gotten to a top boxer in MMA is when Micheal Spinks
fought a shoot match in early Japanese MMA in '92 and quit due to leg kicks.
however, there was a formal challenge from the UFC to Frank Warren the boxing
promoter rather recently, due to Warren talking shit about the UFC in the
British press. The UFC even specifically requested that Warren bring fighters
to fight like Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Harry Simon, and Anthony Farnell.
The challenge probably won't pan out ( Warren isn't stupid enough to send his
boxers where they would be fishes out of water, ) but it will be interesting to
see where the boxing vs. MMA rivalry goes in Britain. If the UFC can
successfully milk the rivalry in Britain, it might be able to bring the same
formula over to the U.S.
--
Rob Meyer | As Voltaire once said-
Kempo-Jujitsu, Sombo, | " Witty quotes mean nothing."
Goshinbudo Jujitsu ( MMA )
Obi-Wan Jabroni
> <<The top heavyweight boxing champion will kick the top wrestler's
> ass anytime. >>
> Yeah Tyson or Lewis would destroy the Rock or Hulk Hogan in a real fight.
That comparison makes little sense since neither of the 2 you
mentioned has any amateur background, Johnson was a Footbal player
with the Miami Hurricanes (I think) and Bollea spent all his time on
the bench sinc ehis coahc considered him "weak and not very brave".
Former WCW champ Goldberg is well trained in MMA as he was trained by
???? (Tim Catalfo ????, Maybe, not sure) at Goldberg's Gym in Atlanta
and Goldberg wanted bichsoff to let him do 100% shoot on "Shooto2
organization in Japan.
Tom Bishop
Obi-Wan Jabroni
> the brazilian jujitsu guys are grapplers just like wrestlers. if you
> think the BJJ guys can beat boxers, then why not hold the same logic for
> wrestlers?
> >>
> BJJ guys train submissions.Wrestlers don't.
Correct, they have to learn subs, remember when in the early years
Severn would easily ride a guy and overpower him but had no finishing
skills? Don Frye was the most complete MMA fighter in North America
before the arrival of Frank Shamrock IMO.
Tom Bishop
Obi-Wan Jabroni
Everyone you talked to are I-D-I-O-T-S, they know nothing about
fighting sports or athletic ability if they really thought she'd win.
Joanie is currently starting an "angle" in Japan, this "loss" will
surely deflate whatever remained of her notoriety and might cost her
her spot in Japan. What the heck, Missy Hyatt and Tammy Syctch need
somebody else to strip naked at www.wrestlingvixxxens.com
Sunny, Sable, Missy, Chynna, Wendy Richter. All of them thought they
were bigger than wrestling, all of them fell flat on their asses.
Tom Bishop
Genial Uncle Bob
StanB...@webtv.net says...
>
>I know wrestling is fake. Everyone knows it. Its really sickning to
>watch. But if Chyna did indeed lose to Joey Buttafuco like someone said
>in an earlier post, then all of her wrestling exploits ALTHOUGH FAKE
>give all the more credence to what I and many boxing fans have known all
>along. The top heavyweight boxing champion will kick the top wrestler's
>ass anytime.
The only thing dumber than that godawful abortion last night are those people
that try to draw any kind of meaningful conclusion from it.
The fact that a steroidsucking allegedly female 'wrestler' lost an ugly, ugly
bout to a man who outweighed her by something like 70 lbs proves absolutely
nothing.
Jack White
You're out of your mind.
Chyna has lost SO MUCH WEIGHT that she looked anorexic.
Chyna was her biggest in maybe 1995 through 1997.
She was physically bigger than Mike Tyson 5 years ago, and now she's
even smaller than Damon Stoudamire.
Chyna could in her prime bench 365lbs and deadlift 465lbs. Chyna would
have torn Butafuco a new one if this was 5 years ago.
I normally root for the guy in a man vs woman boxing match, but the
way Butafuco acted like a total scumbag, even I had to root against
him.
Chyna should train like she used to back in the day and have a rematch
in 6 or 8 months and come at 220lbs of solid muscle and she'd tear
Joey a new one.
Boxers are just too weak and skinny to ever last even 30 seconds
against a big strong wrestler.
Like Mick said in Rocky3, "I've seen wrestlers that are bigger than
Dinosaurs, every try and fight a dinosaur"?
It's not unusual for wrestlers to have WELL over a 600lbs benchpress,
weigh over a quarter ton, or be WELL over 7 feet tall.
Big strong guys(wreslers/strongmen) would destroy skinny little guys
like Lennox Lewis in 2 seconds.
I've seen a lot of fights, and the big guy beats up the skinny little
guy 99.8% of the time.
Martial arts or boxing can rarely make up for a huge disadvantage in
size, power, or strength.
Even female pro wrestlers(Nicole Bass for example) have legpressed
over 1200lbs for example, and that's MORE than ANY male boxer has ever
legpressed.
Even a little 250lbs wrestler like Ken Shamrock would DESTORY any
boxer in 30 seconds.
There was a pro wrestler who benched 750lbs back in 1987, and former
pro wrestler Bill Kazmire benched 661lbs once.
Bill Kazmire(when he was in his prime), Mark Henry, Manfred, Paul
Wight, or even Kane would tear any boxer in half and use the boxers
legs as toothpicks.
Can you even name 1 boxer who's ever benched over 600lbs? I can name a
dozen pro wrestlers off the top of my head who've benched over 600lbs.
Dan Paik
Jack White <jack...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>It's not unusual for wrestlers to have WELL over a 600lbs benchpress,
>weigh over a quarter ton, or be WELL over 7 feet tall.
like who?
>There was a pro wrestler who benched 750lbs back in 1987, and former
>pro wrestler Bill Kazmire benched 661lbs once.
i don't know kazmire. but dino bravo bench pressed 710 pounds but that
was all a big joke...jesse the body was spotting him and ended up doing it
with him. of course dino yelled and screamed that he did it.
>Bill Kazmire(when he was in his prime), Mark Henry, Manfred, Paul
>Wight, or even Kane would tear any boxer in half and use the boxers
mark henry is strong (after all he's the "world's strongest man") but he
can't fight. he would get killed against even a fake boxer like
butterbean.
paul wight is big and strong but he's super slow and has no stamina.
lennox lewis would just jab him for like 2 rounds and the big show would
be out of breath and easy to KO.
kane can barely wrestle let alone have a shoot match.
come on, let's ber serious for a moment. most of these wrestlers are very
strong but these guys don't have any real wrestling skills either. if you
want to talk about wrestler vs. boxer...talk about guys like chris
benoit. i'm sure he can beat pretty much any boxer in a shoot fight but
it doesn't have anything to do with how much chris can bench press.
Robert Phillips
Jack White wrote:
> It's not unusual for wrestlers to have WELL over a 600lbs benchpress,
> weigh over a quarter ton, or be WELL over 7 feet tall.
Umm, yes, I think all of the above are unusual.
Take a deep breath, count backwards from ten, and try again.
Pie
H. McDaniel
> yend...@aol.com (YENDOR 20) wrote in message news:<20020523003416...@mb-cn.aol.com>...
> > Last I checked women can't beat men so how does Buttafuco's victory
> > over Joan Laurer prove anything is beyond me since we already knew
> > women's concussive power is nowhere near a man of the same size.
> > >>
> > Just about everyone I talked to thought Chyna would beat him.I was laughed at
> > for saying he would manhandle her.She sure has gotten small.
>
> Everyone you talked to are I-D-I-O-T-S, they know nothing about
> fighting sports or athletic ability if they really thought she'd win.
>
> Joanie is currently starting an "angle" in Japan, this "loss" will
> surely deflate whatever remained of her notoriety and might cost her
> her spot in Japan. What the heck, Missy Hyatt and Tammy Syctch need
> somebody else to strip naked at www.wrestlingvixxxens.com
Hmm. She didn't look that bad. The match was pretty close and Buttafuco
was breaking the rules (at one point he got under her arm and practically
back flipped her to the mat.) Buttafuco looked like he was in good shape
(well okay) so her rep. shouldn't suffer much. I do think that Buttafuco held
back some. He gave it just enough to win. Didn't look like he was really
trying to embarass her ;)
-McDaniel
H. McDaniel
> You're out of your mind.
> Chyna has lost SO MUCH WEIGHT that she looked anorexic.
> Chyna was her biggest in maybe 1995 through 1997.
> She was physically bigger than Mike Tyson 5 years ago, and now she's
> even smaller than Damon Stoudamire.
> Chyna could in her prime bench 365lbs and deadlift 465lbs. Chyna would
> have torn Butafuco a new one if this was 5 years ago.
Interesting numbers but I don't believe she was ever benching that much
weight. If she was ever built to do that kind of litting it would still show, IMO.
She'd have a barrel chest. I mean what happened to her bones? They
just shrunk back to petite size after she stopped putting demands on them?
-McDaniel
Jack White
> In article <228e6376.02052...@posting.google.com>,
> Jack White <jack...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >It's not unusual for wrestlers to have WELL over a 600lbs benchpress,
> >weigh over a quarter ton, or be WELL over 7 feet tall.
>
> like who?
Well, these are the guys that have a PROVEN well over 600lbs
benchpress: Superstar Billy Graham, Tony Atlas, The Warlord, Bill
Kazmire, Dino Bravo, Paul Wight, Ted Arcidi, Ken Patera, and these
are the guys who might very well have had a 600lbs+ benchpress, but it
hasn't been proven yet: Brock Lesnar?, Zeus?, Max Muscle?, Ice Train?.
BTW, did anyone play the videogame Double Dragon as a kid in the
arcades or on your Nintendo, Sega Master System, or Sega Genesis
system?
Is it me or is Zeus right out of that videogame?
If you don't remember the Zeus character, then watch the movie No
Holds Barred and you'll remember him from the WWF. He was actually a
movie star turned wrestler instead of the regular way around.
BTW, was Zeus in Double Dragon the movie?
He sure as hell should have been.
I've never seen that movie, but I sure hope that it's based on Double
Dragon1 instead of Double Dragon5.
The Double Dragon cartoon was based on Double Dragon5 and I was hoping
that it would have been based on Double Dragon1 instead.
These are the guys that are well over 7 feet tall Paul Wight, Ron
Studd, Giant Silva, Jorge"The Giant Gonzolez", Kurrgan, Big John
Little, and
The Mummy
Most of these guys are PROVEN over 7 feet tall because most of them
besides being pro wrestlers, also played either NCAA division1 college
basketball, Pro basketball in their country, or pro basketball in
europe.
These are the quarter ton plus guys It thought of off the top of my
head: Yokozuna, Andre The Giant, Akeem, Haystacks Calhoun, Paul
Wight, and Mabel
Pro Wrestlers are SO much stronger than other people that you can't
even comprehend it.
Most people think Shaq's a strong guy right?
Shaq's MAX benchpress ever is 375lbs, and Shaq's max benchpress in his
rookie year was just 225lbs accoring to Dr. Jack Ramsey who has
information on players that regular people can't get.
Shaq doesn't even work our that much anymore, so it's safe to say that
Shaq's bencpress is probably under 300lbs now.
Let's compare Shaq to even female pro wreslters.
Christina Dutkowski(a Canadian pro wrestler) benches 425lbs, and
Nicole Bass has a max legpress of over 1200lbs.
Both of these women are MUCH MUCH stronger than Shaq ever was.
Now if the female pro wrestlers are that strong, just imagine how
strong the strongest male pro wrestlers are.
You can see Christina's records for yourself at this site.
http://www.ctol.net/~dwhitham/stat.benchpress.htm
Alan Conceicao
Does anyone else remember that 400 lb guy Tank Abbott sent into a seizure when
he first appeared on UFC eons ago? Size is meaningless. Really, the only guy of
note you mentioned is Lesnar (a former NCAA champion). Most of the others are
your general "freaks"..guys perfect for the job of being a monster heel and
orking boring 5 minute matches and not much else.
-
Alan
Jack White
I really don't think that Joanie used steroids.
She put on all that weight with very hard work in the weightroom and
eating right and using the right suplements and stuff. Joanie really
did cavein to all the pressure that she's too muscular and too big and
she lost almost all the weight she had put on with hard work in the
weightroom.
Here's a pic of Joanie whe she was younger along with her sister Kathy
and she was only 5'10" 160lbs.
She's in the Fitness America Competition or some thing like that when
this pic was probably taken.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Ring/4548/jandk2.jpg
Back in 1996 or 1997 Joanie was probably up to 215 or 220lbs or even
more. Her character was actually supposed to be HHH's bodyguard. I
think one of the things that scared HHH so much and made him bulk up
so much and hit the weightroom hard was the fear that Chyna would be
stronger than him and would be able to do more weight than him on
lifts in the gym.
Joanie was very skinny on Celebrity Boxing, it's the skinniest I've
ever seen her.
When Howard Stern weighed her, a while ago she weighed 186lbs, and
she'd already lost TONS of weight.
Joanie's really lost almost all the muscle she built up after she went
from being a Fitness America Contestant type to more of a heavyweight
bodybuilder/powerlifter type of woman.
OZNakapoontang
Hey, Rocky Balboa beat Thunderlips. Actually it was a draw.
BoxingCritic
YENDOR 20
<<That comparison makes little sense since neither of the 2 you
mentioned has any amateur background, Johnson was a Footbal player
with the Miami Hurricanes (I think) and Bollea spent all his time on
the bench sinc ehis coahc considered him "weak and not very brave".>>
I used them becuase they are 2 big stars like Lewis and Tyson.
<<Former WCW champ Goldberg is well trained in MMA as he was trained by
???? (Tim Catalfo ????, Maybe, not sure) at Goldberg's Gym in Atlanta
and Goldberg wanted bichsoff to let him do 100% shoot on "Shooto2
organization in Japan.
>>
I would pick Tyson over Goldberg.I heard he had some training and all but he
has zero fights.Your guessing to as how good he really is.Maybe he has a glass
jaw who knows.Maybe he knows just enough to get hurt.
YENDOR 20
fighting sports or athletic ability if they really thought she'd win.
>>
YENDOR 20
have torn Butafuco a new one if this was 5 years ago.>>
have really helped her.Butto would not have manhandled her so bad but he would
have won under those rules.
YENDOR 20
against a big strong wrestler.>>
YENDOR 20
dozen pro wrestlers off the top of my head who've benched over 600lbs.
>>
Foreman?
PeterD
Yeah, nice post. Pro wrestling today is an outpost where many fine
amateurs find themselves if they have the charisma. Look at guys like
Sammartino, Thesz and Gotch. These men were real fighters, with
encyclopaedic knowledge of bone-snapping, tendon and ligament shearing
finishing holds. The rippers and hookers of yesteryear would have been
a handful for today's MMA guys, no doubt.
While pro wrestling per se is 'fake' that does not mean that its
exponents are.
Sure, there are some lamers out there, but for the most part they are
great athletes who undergo gruelling schedules and suffer many
injuries in pursuit of their dream.
In a gloves off, no rules fight, boxers like Hopkins would have little
chance. Not no chance, just a slim one. Every event staged to see
whether this is so has reinforced this POV. This is not meant to
denigrate boxers; it's just an observed fact.
Peter
Paul
>Hmm. She didn't look that bad. The match was pretty close and Buttafuco
>was breaking the rules (at one point he got under her arm and practically
>back flipped her to the mat.) Buttafuco looked like he was in good shape
>(well okay) so her rep. shouldn't suffer much. I do think that Buttafuco held
>back some. He gave it just enough to win. Didn't look like he was really
>trying to embarass her ;)
>
>-McDaniel
Buttafuco only looked good when he grabbed Joanie or used cheap
tactics. Joanie delivered the best legal punches in that bout.
Joey looked liked Butterbean's little brother in terms of
conditioning.
H. McDaniel
I don't think anybody would agree to a no holds barred "real fight" with Tyson
for simple money. How much money is it worth to get a finger bitten off or have
him gnawing on one of your eyeballs or ripping off one of your forearms and
shoving it up your bum? I just can't a guy agreeing to a real fight with Tyson
unless he has to wear a muzzle or a real personal vendetta is involved.
-McDaniel
Paul
According to her page on CelebrityCD.com, she can benchpress up to
325 pounds, which is still very impressive, man or woman, especially
someone who was maybe 225 pounds at the most in her prime. She was
stronger on a pound for pound basis than some of the wrestlers in the
WWF when she was there.
http://www.celebritycd.com/chyna/chyna_biography.html
The numbers he gave appear to be in the ballpark range, since it
appears she can deadlift in the mid 400 range...
http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=70
According to this CNNSI.com article, she claims she benchpresses
365 pounds. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/siforwomen/2000/july_august/short_takes/
Obi-Wan Jabroni
Did the Long Island Lolita perform a run in and hit Chyna with a steel chair?
"Amy Fischer 3:16" says you just fucked my ass.
Tom Bishop
Stan Bolivan
beat UFC CHAMP AFTER UFC CHAMP, he DIDN'T use grappling skills, he flat
out punched and bitch slapped these greco roman and jujitsu experts
around. Hitting them in the face. Its NOT how much you can give, its how
much you can take. Wrestlers CAN'T take getting their faces pounded.
Yes, Maurice knew enough grappling and martial arts to stay on his feet
or get in the guard position when they shot in and took him down. But
when he started PUNCHING them they were DEFENSLESS. It was a sorry sight
to watch. NOW, could you imagine a PRO boxer like Mike Tyson, rabbit
punching,etc, doing all of those things he can't do in the boxing ring?
He'd make MINCEMEAT out of those wrestlers.
Stephen Fox
Double Dragon? Shaq? Where did they come from? And out of like
10,000 pro wrestlers you mentioned like 12 guys who fit your elaborate
categories. While you said it was not uncommon, which it is, for a
pro wrestler to fit into 1 of 3 groups, you came up with a mere
handful of guys. Not that any of this was relevant information to
begin with.
Lets face it, these would mean very little in a pro or street fight
anyhow. Out of these attributes, I would say the only one that would
be helpful to the point that it would give one guy an advantage over
another would be height. Strength could, but not always, I'd rather
be fast and have good strenght than to be slow and overly strong.
Weight in no way would help, as a matter of fact it would impair the
persons ability to fight. This is especially true in the extreme
circumstances as you are suggesting. I weigh 186 and I bet I'd beat
the hell out of any guy who weighs 500 pounds so long as I didn't let
him grab hold of me and chew my limbs off. At a certain point
strength becomes a weakness as well, as has been explained a million
times in RSB. While its not the strength itself that directly affects
your mobility, the bulkiness of the muscles in these extreme and rare
circumstances, again, cause you to be very slow and inflexable. You
actually have to fight against your own body to throw a punch. Even
once contact is made with the punch theres nothing behind it because
the arm is unable to straighten completely because the bicep is so
stiff.
Steve
jack...@my-deja.com (Jack White) wrote in message news:<228e6376.02052...@posting.google.com>...
Dan Paik
Jack White <jack...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>dan...@stonecold.babo.com (Dan Paik) wrote in message
>news:<acjqgn$lln$1...@stonecold.babo.com>...
>> In article <228e6376.02052...@posting.google.com>,
>> Jack White <jack...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> >It's not unusual for wrestlers to have WELL over a 600lbs benchpress,
>> >weigh over a quarter ton, or be WELL over 7 feet tall.
>>
>> like who?
>
>Well, these are the guys that have a PROVEN well over 600lbs
>benchpress: Superstar Billy Graham, Tony Atlas, The Warlord, Bill
>Kazmire, Dino Bravo, Paul Wight, Ted Arcidi, Ken Patera, and these
>are the guys who might very well have had a 600lbs+ benchpress, but it
>hasn't been proven yet: Brock Lesnar?, Zeus?, Max Muscle?, Ice Train?.
>BTW, did anyone play the videogame Double Dragon as a kid in the
>arcades or on your Nintendo, Sega Master System, or Sega Genesis
>system?
>Is it me or is Zeus right out of that videogame?
lol. i once had an argument with a guy because we were watching UFC and
he kept insisting that weightlifters should go on the show because they
are so strong they would beat everybody. when i pointed out that the
weightlifter would have to have fighting skills he kept insisting that
they don't need fighting skills, they would just lift up their opponent
and throw them to the ground...repeatedly. it was so stupid and absurd i
almost disowned him as a friend.
double dragon? i played that video game when i was a kid.
size and strength helps but this isn't basketball where even a no talent
guy like manute bol can be a professional. fighting skills are actually
important. a great wrestler versus and great boxer in a street fight
would be a close match with the wrestler winning sometimes and the boxer
winning sometimes.
in a street fight, chris benoit can beat pretty much all of the guys you
mentioned. he would kick them in the shins and balls, get them down, grab
them, and punch their faces in.
Fireint...@webtv.net
I agree with Pete. IMO there are some wrestlers that can't fight and
there are some boxers or Karate guys that can't fight. There was a women
in my class who stated that she had beat up a pro-female heavyweight on
the street the women in my class who beat up the boxer said the women
she had beating up on the street was a golden gloves champ before she
turned pro. So IMO it varies between people. I was watching the news a
year ago about a 6-7 man who was 250 pounds who wanted to fight the Big
Show in a bar the guy was being a jerk he was getting in the Big Shows
face provoking him to fight 'em the Big Show flattned the 6-7 250 pound
guy with one punch the Big show knocked out the 250 pound guy out cold.
And Andre The Giant I heard he overturned a car by himself when he got
into a fender bender. He turned the car upsidedown.
Group: rec.sport.boxing Date: Thu, May 23, 2002, 10:45pm (EDT-3) From:
pde...@yahoo.com.au (PeterD)
Rocky Marciano.
YENDOR 20
unless he has to wear a muzzle or a real personal vendetta is involved.
>>
Bob Sheehy
Olympics, not Greg Gagne.
I'm too lazy to look this up, but wasn't Bob Backlund a national AAU
champion, not NCAA champ?
Finally, it's hardly surprising that Danny Hodge should be the boxing
commish in his home state of Oklahoma. As Tom well knows, Danny Hodge
was not only a legendary amateur wrestler, but also a national Golden
Gloves heavyweight boxing champ. Hodge had a brief pro boxing career
that ended when he was stopped by Nino Valdes.
Paul
Maybe they can't take it in the face as well as other athletes, but
have you ever been powerbombed through a table? Do you know what it's
like to have someone leap off the top of a cage at you and feel the
impact. Agreed, if it the fighting was reduced to just punching, but
the skilled wrestlers would have an advantage in other areas, if they
were allowed to use their full repetoire. Boxers are more stationary
than pro wrestlers are.
Paul
> Boxers are just too weak and skinny to ever last even 30 seconds
> against a big strong wrestler.>>
> LOL!If that is true then how come Hulk Hogan never won a boxing belt?
Does anyone remember Antonio Inoki versus Muhammad Ali in a boxer
versus wrestler bout? Of course that bout proved nothing since it
was generally accepted as a farce.
Melanie Ley
Sheehy) wrote:
>I think Tom meant to say Verne Gagne represented the U.S. in the
>Olympics, not Greg Gagne.
I don't find either name listed as having been on an U.S.
Olympic team. Year and weight?
>
>I'm too lazy to look this up, but wasn't Bob Backlund a national AAU
>champion, not NCAA champ?
Boxing was never under the NCAA - was always governed by the
AAU. And I don't find a Backland listed as ever winning the U.S.
Men's Championships. Year and weight?
>
>Finally, it's hardly surprising that Danny Hodge should be the boxing
>commish in his home state of Oklahoma. As Tom well knows, Danny Hodge
>was not only a legendary amateur wrestler, but also a national Golden
>Gloves heavyweight boxing champ.
I don't find a "Danny Hodge" listed as ever having won the
National Golden Gloves. There is a Clay Hodges from L.A. who won
twice in the 60s.......
????
Mel
Amateur Boxing News at
www.amateurboxing.com
Obi-Wan Jabroni
> I think Tom meant to say Verne Gagne represented the U.S. in the
> Olympics, not Greg Gagne.
>
Absolutely, you are quite right, I meant to say Verne Gagne and not
his son Greg Gagne, Verne was at the London Olympics in 1948 and so
was Mad Dog Vachon. Gagne wrestled Dickie Hutton in the NCAA finals a
long time ago as well. I believe Gagne was a 2 time NCAA champ, not
sure at what weight though, I do know Vachon wrestled at 175 in 1948.
> I'm too lazy to look this up, but wasn't Bob Backlund a national AAU
> champion, not NCAA champ?
>
Former WWWF "fake" world champion Bob Backlund captured NCAA Division
II 190-pound amateur wrestling championship at North Dakota State in
1971. If I recall correctly Jack Brisco won the NCAA title also at 190
lbs in the mid 60's representing Oklahoma State.
Oklahoma has given us plenty, remember Doug Furnas? Steve Williams
also who in 1982 wrestled Bruce Baumgartner, don't judge Williams by
his 1998 "Brawl For All" showing in his youth he was one tough hombre.
> Finally, it's hardly surprising that Danny Hodge should be the boxing
> commish in his home state of Oklahoma. As Tom well knows, Danny Hodge
> was not only a legendary amateur wrestler, but also a national Golden
> Gloves heavyweight boxing champ. Hodge had a brief pro boxing career
> that ended when he was stopped by Nino Valdes.
Yes, Hodge did become a golden Gloves champ as well as a 3 time
National AAU champion. I believe Hodge won the 1958 Heavyweight golden
gloves title, a year later a fella by the name Cassius Marcellus Clay
would win the Light-Heavyweight division.
Hodge was a phenom if he was a young man today he'd be at the very top
of the MMA world.
There are plenty more shooters:
"Iron" Mike Dibiase who had the distinction of being the last men
inside the ring with Archie Moore and went on to father Ted "Million
Dollar Man" Dibiase was a AAU National Champion in the 1940's.
Brad Rheingans was an AAU champ from 1976 to 1980 and went on to teach
Don Frye a few tricks.
Dory Funk was an Indiana State Wrestling champ and father of former
"fake" NWA world Chanpion Dory Funk Jr and Terry Funk.
Bob Roop was also in AAU but didn't win it.
Tim Woods (AKA Mr Wrestling) was an AAU champ back in the mid 1950's,
I think he was also in the 190 lbs class.
Hell, even Paul "Pee Wee Herman" Reubens was a 2 time champion at Dade
County.
Mario Lopez from "Saved By The Bell" and "Pacific Blue" placed in the
top 10 of the California state 160 lbs class in the early 90's.
Both General Patton and Schwarzcopf wrestled at West Point and
Presidents Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Calvin Coolidge
and Abraham Lincoln all had Wrestling background.
Wasn't Mr T a 3 time Chicago wrestling champion?
Tom Bishop
Robert Phillips
Paul wrote:
> Does anyone remember Antonio Inoki versus Muhammad Ali in a boxer
> versus wrestler bout? Of course that bout proved nothing since it
> was generally accepted as a farce.
So why didn't it prove anything about what happens when a wrestler who wants to wrestle goes up against
a boxer who wants to box?
Pie
Obi-Wan Jabroni
> On Sat, 25 May 2002 10:06:39 -0400 (EDT), bob...@webtv.net (Bob
> Sheehy) wrote:
>
> >I think Tom meant to say Verne Gagne represented the U.S. in the
> >Olympics, not Greg Gagne.
>
> I don't find either name listed as having been on an U.S.
> Olympic team. Year and weight?
> >
You need to pay attention old woman, me and Sheehy are discussing
Olympic Free-Style Wrestling of which Danny Hodge from Oklahoma State
brought home the Silver in 1956 in the Middleweight division.
> >I'm too lazy to look this up, but wasn't Bob Backlund a national AAU
> >champion, not NCAA champ?
>
> Boxing was never under the NCAA - was always governed by the
> AAU. And I don't find a Backland listed as ever winning the U.S.
> Men's Championships. Year and weight?
> >
Still haven't got with the programe, we are discussing wrestling not
boxing. Ever heard of wrestling? It was first seen at the early Greek
Olympics alongside Pankration and Pugilism. Oh, you still think James
Figg invented boxing, my goodness, ignorance aplenty.
> >Finally, it's hardly surprising that Danny Hodge should be the boxing
> >commish in his home state of Oklahoma. As Tom well knows, Danny Hodge
> >was not only a legendary amateur wrestler, but also a national Golden
> >Gloves heavyweight boxing champ.
>
> I don't find a "Danny Hodge" listed as ever having won the
> National Golden Gloves. There is a Clay Hodges from L.A. who won
> twice in the 60s.......
>
Pathetic, try to keep up with the subject at hand and you might learn
something.
Tom Bishop
RobRPM2222
>to wrestle goes up against
>a boxer who wants to box?
>
>
It proves that a pro wrestler with only pro wrestling training in a match with
highly artificial rules (Inoki was banned from using a number of techniques
IIRC, while Ali was able to use his full boxing skills, ) will lose.
Inoki had no amateur wrestling experience that I know of. If he did, things
might have turned out quite differently.
--
Rob Meyer | As Voltaire once said-
Kempo-Jujitsu, Sombo, | " Witty quotes mean nothing."
Goshinbudo Jujitsu ( MMA )
Bob Sheehy
phenom. A man of nearly inhuman natural strength, Hodge won the NCAA
177-lb. title all three years he was eligible (he was twice voted
outstanding wrestler of the tourney), never lost a college match and was
never taken off his feet. He competed twice in the Olympics, capturing
silver in 1956. After graduating from college in 1957, he laced on the
gloves for the first time and, less than a year afterward, he knocked
out Fred Hood in two rounds in Madison Square Garden to win the 1958
national Golden Gloves heavyweight crown. Hodge was undefeated as an
amateur boxer and 8-2 as a pro. His final pro bout - a controversial
stoppage loss to Nino Valdes - came a mere nine months after his debut.
Hodge subsequently turned to pro wrestling, where he was known as a
genuine shooter whom not even the great Lou Thesz would trifle with.
Melanie Ley
Sheehy) wrote:
>He competed twice in the Olympics, capturing
>silver in 1956.
As a wrestler?
> After graduating from college in 1957, he laced on the
>gloves for the first time and, less than a year afterward, he knocked
>out Fred Hood in two rounds in Madison Square Garden to win the 1958
>national Golden Gloves heavyweight crown.
That he did. I found it. 8-) Sorry for butting in - I
didn't realize the thread was bout him as a wrester, too.
Melanie Ley
wrote:
My apologies. I was totally out to lunch in my below post.
Obi-Wan Jabroni
Lou always spoke with the upmost respect of Hodge and although I never
saw any I hear of the "fake" NWA Heavyweight Vs NWA Junior-Heavyweight
bouts between Thez and Hodge and old timers say they were fantastic
bouts with tremendous workrate and realistic amateur moves and holds.
A lot of other shooters to talk about in good ol' fake wraslin:
Strangler Lewis, Karl Gotch, George Tragos, Ad Santel, Boris Malenko
(father of Dean and Joe Malenko), Tom Jenkins, Martin Burns, Billy
Riley, Joe Stecher, Billy Robinson, George Hackenshmidt, etc.
Santel was an old school shooter or as they were called back in the
days "hookers", Santel went to Japan way back then and legend has it
had shoots with several top judo fighters and whipped them all with
superior grappling skills. In Lou Thez bio which is indeed called
"Hooker" he talks about the olden days, and in his later years Thez
did a few seminars with Matt Furey about "real wrestling".
In my opinion old school wrestlers and modern day Brazilian Ju-Jitsu
fighters are the primary reasons why as to how shootfighting skills
were preserved over the years and kept around until they had their
recent popularity revival over the past decade.
Old time wrestlers from the first part of the 20th century had a shoot
style which encorporated grappling and submissions that is very
similar to what we see today. These skils were not necessarily used in
"worked" pro wrestling bouts but new wrestlers had to learn the shoot
skills as well in order to be able to protect the "sanctity of pro
wrestling" against "outsiders".
These are skills passed on down, George Tragos and Ad Santel and Ed
"The Strangler" Lewis thaught Lou Thez how to shoot, Billy Riley
thaught Karl Gotch, Frank Gotch thaught Dean Malenko, Stu trained his
boys of which Dean and Bret would become the better technical mat
wrestlers.
They had to know how to do legit shoots because back in the days of
wrestling carnivals (which are not totally extinct nowadays BTW) where
wrestlers went from town to town there was always a local tough guy
who said wrestling was fake (which is it) and wrestlers couldn't fight
(which they could) and the promotor would let the tough guy get in
there with the wrestler and the wrestler would turn into a shooter and
send the local idiot to the hospital and saved the rep of
pro-Wrestling.
With the arrival of Gorgeous George in the 1950's there was a shift in
emphasis from legit skill to flashy gimmicks and everybody with a
personality or a good build thought they could become wrestlers but
old timers like Stu Hart and Killer Kowalsky, Frank Gotch, Hiro
Matsuda and many others have made sure that many of these idiots are
left at the door after getting taken to the mat by the old timers and
streched out, if they can take the early schoolings and poundings
they'll earn respect from their peers and be allowed in but if they
start bitching then it's bye, bye. Stu Hart has been said to have
sent hundreds of bodybuilders and Football players packing after they
went down to the Hart Family Dungeon and had old man Stu strech them
out.
It's not uncommon for wrestlers to test each other a little bit by
doing a quasi-shoot by simply working the macth bu doing so while
being a bit sitffer in the delivery of the blows and tightning the
holds a bit more than usual.
There have been many recent examples, particularly by the Steiner
Bothers, Perry Staturn had a shooter rep and when he came to WCW Rick
Steiner decided to test him a litlle bit by going a little rougher on
him in their first match, Marcus Bagwell had always been a little shit
in the lockerroom, when Scott Steiner got inside the ring with him on
PPV he was not holding back much and laying it extra stiff on him with
clotheslines etc and the next Monday Bagwell was Okay but all black
and blue and very sore, another funny story is when Tank Abbott joined
WCW and the Steiners decided to test his rep by roughing him up, Rick
Steiner went in there and said the guy had nothing at all, was not
that strong and not that tough, keep in mind that in the early 1980's
Rick Steiner was a very decent national calibre wrestler, last I
checked Abbott is a strong fat guy who did well in High-school
wrestling but the closest he ever got to the NCAA was to buy a ticket.
Trust me, having charisma alone is not enough, there's a lot of old
school guys who are going to make you pay your dues, if you are
saddled with an old timer like "Cowboy" Bill Watts you are in for a
world of hurt before anything else.
Tom Bishop
Obi-Wan Jabroni
Okay, then let's get back to boxing then, remember Irish-American Ron
Eldard, who used to be on TV series ER playing a Paramedic and was
Juliana Margulies love interest? He was on eo fthe Austronauts in
"Deep Impact" etc. Tell us a little bit Ronnies participation in the
Golden Gloves.
Tom Bishop
Steve Goldberg
Melanie Ley <box...@nowhere.biz> wrote in message news:<m4u0fu0f3shntglmo...@4ax.com>...