BCA AND BAR rules
MICHAEL TUNNAH
game of 8-ball. I broke and potted the eight and another ball. To my surprise
this I was told is a LOSS in bars. This has got to be the stupidest rule that
i have ever heard in my life. When i play in my pool hall at home i play by
standard BCA rules. I come up to university and have to play by dumb shit bar
rules. More people should be made aware of BCA rules and educated on the
correct and proper way to play pool.
o Bob Schaefer
Just a couple of quick comments on bar rules and the "correct and
proper" way to play pool. 1) how do you spot a ball on a pay table? 2)
along the same lines how do you spot the eight on a pay table? 3) have
you ever tried to make serious bank shots on a bar table? (Its very
difficult, you have to know the table to do this consistently) 4) do you
want to be the one to tell Bubba who's 6'0" and 300lbs that his shot was
no good? (I've seen fights over less than this) The only rule that I
follow religiously is to verify any questionable shot before attempting it
with the person I am playing and that I try to find out the house rules
before even playing. No matter what YOU think is the "correct and proper"
way to play, house rules will always be followed first. Just my opinions
and views.
Bob Schaefer
bob.sc...@launchpad.unc.edu
rj...@lubrizol.com
P.S. Yes, I've lost games to stupid house rules as well, but its a lot
cheaper to lose 50 cents to the table than a fight and much more because
of a disagreement. Its just not worth it.
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Launchpad is an experimental internet BBS. The views of its users do not
necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Bill Rohde
I thought the object in 8 ball was to sink all (stripes or solids)
then the 8. Therefore making the 8 on the break is making the 8
out-of-order and a loss. Around here - bar rules - make the 8 on the
break and you WIN.
Stevene127
rails 2) scratch on 8-ball w/0 pocketing it is still a LOSS 3) no ball in
hand, thus dirty pool is a good possibility
Scott Rohleder
That is also typical of bar rules around here (Milwaukee, WI). That is one of
the many reasons why I refuse to play bar pool of any kind unless I'm just
passing time and playing for drinks or $1-$2 a game. Anymore and you are just
asking for trouble, especially when playing against strangers.
--
[]========================================================================[]
|| The old pool shooter had won many a game in his ||
|| Scott Rohleder life, but now it was time to hang up his cue. ||
|| Software Engineer When he did, all the other cues came crashing ||
|| rohl...@mfa.com to the floor. ||
|| "Sorry", he said with a smile. ||
[]========================================================================[]
Doc Holliday
> I thought the object in 8 ball was to sink all (stripes or solids)
> then the 8. Therefore making the 8 on the break is making the 8
> out-of-order and a loss. Around here - bar rules - make the 8 on the
> break and you WIN.
Well, sinking it off the break is useless, because it isn't a stripe or solid,
according to the BCA the 8 ball is either respotted, or the next player can
request a new rack, either way it's a foul, but not a win or a loss.
Mark Avlon
>I thought the object in 8 ball was to sink all (stripes or solids)
>then the 8. Therefore making the 8 on the break is making the 8
>out-of-order and a loss. Around here - bar rules - make the 8 on the
>break and you WIN.
>
BCA 8 Ball rule 4.9. gives the breaker the option of a re-rack or having the 8 Ball
spotted and continue shooting. If the breaker scratched on the break, the incomming
player the same options.
Harry Ford
Holliday) wrote:
Im not familiar with the official rules, but what if you could call the
eight ball on the break? Would it just be a really impressive shot and
spotted or would it be a win?
KURT SCHAAF
MT> I was just recently playing in the local bar. We were playing you
MT> game of 8-ball. I broke and potted the eight and another ball. To
MT> this I was told is a LOSS in bars. This has got to be the stupides
I, too, have seen arguments pop up in bars about this. Usually the
reason is lack of awareness of the rules of pool. However, before I
enter into such an argument, I usually ascertain whether there is an
exit nearby or I have enough friends around in case the fists start
flying. <g>
Kurt Schaaf
Internet: kurt....@sunrisebbs.com
* RM 1.3 00968 *
Jari Kokko
>Well, sinking it off the break is useless, because it isn't a stripe or solid,
>according to the BCA the 8 ball is either respotted, or the next player can
>request a new rack, either way it's a foul, but not a win or a loss.
Hrmph! According to the BCA, it isn't a foul, and the breaker
has the choice of either respotting or breaking again.
4.9. 8-BALL POCKETED ON THE BREAK. If the 8-ball is pocketed
on the break, the breaker may ask for a re-rack or have the
8-ball spotted and continue shooting. ....
Jari
--
Say, little night-owl! What are you doing up at the middle of half-past-eight?
WILLIAM DAILEY
: In article <007406t.1...@axe.acadiau.ca>,
I don't know where you're from but thats not the way it goes in
the bars i've been in. I agree with guy that says that you have to
follow bar rules--thats a foregone conclusion. However if the rules
say that making the 8 on the break is a loss or foul then i simply
will not play there. Bye the way, the object of 9-ball is to sink the
balls in order too. BCA rules are for the birds, i call it "busch
league" or slop pool; my opinion is that it should be more like
snooker. Call everything, banks, caroms, kisses etc. and you'll truly
get respect from me and we will never have a disagreement. I also
think that making the 8 on the break is a truly religious
experience...why spoil it. A lot of people put a lot of practice into
breaking methodology in order to increase the occurence of this,
albeit the intractability of pool puts a serious damper on this
pursuit. In my mind, other than making the 8 on the break, you must
intend on making THE ball that your shooting in THE pocket that your
shooting to via THE path that you aim for...that is skill; all else is
slop and should be scoffed at whenever encountered. Is this snooker
talking or am i just a jerk? :-)
wILLY
Gary Haddox
If you are willing to take it if your first shot gets lucky (8
on the break)but you insist that every other shot must be
plotted and explained... I might call it situational ethics.
( I would never use that J-word unless I'm sure I can run faster
than you) Luck is a part of the game.
Plaster this with smiley faces - no flame intended
--
T.B.O.I. Zone 7 Southeastern Virginia
ghaddox.leo.vsla.edu
Doc Holliday
Well, unless you could sink all seven stripes or solids with it. The point is
you *have* to sink *all* of your group of balls before you can make a legal
shot on the 8. The only time you can hit the 8 ball before this is to make
a combination shot on an open table. The reason that you can win off the
break in nine ball is because it is not call shot, and on a legal break you
hit the one ball, so any balls that go in are legal, in 8 ball it is *illegal*.
Nate
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doc Holliday, aka Smi...@Meena.CC.Uregina.CA - I'm your huckleberry
One of the MANY resident idiots on alt.pinecone
'I have nothing to say and I am saying it'
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ron Shepard
Holliday) wrote:
[regarding BCA 8-ball...]
>Well, unless you could sink all seven stripes or solids with it. The point is
>you *have* to sink *all* of your group of balls before you can make a legal
>shot on the 8. The only time you can hit the 8 ball before this is to make
>a combination shot on an open table.
Just to clarify this a bit, in BCA 8-ball when the table is open, you can
hit the 8-ball first but you do not get credit for pocketing any object
ball. The table remains open after your shot, and your inning ends. The
shot is not a foul, so opponent does not get ball in hand. The purpose
behind this rule is to allow someone to play safe using the 8-ball in this
open-table situation. I play 8-ball using several sets of rules (I
usually ask about these things when they come up to make sure), and this
is from memory, but I think it is right.
>The reason that you can win off the
>break in nine ball is because it is not call shot, and on a legal break you
>hit the one ball, so any balls that go in are legal, in 8 ball it is *illegal*.
I'm not sure that call-shot has anything to do with it. Maybe yes, maybe
no? BCA 8-ball is call shot, but you continue shooting, with the table
open, if you pocket an object ball on the break.
In 8-ball, you might play 8-on-the-break is a win, a loss, or neither. In
BCA 8-ball, it is neither.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Jamie Burr
I think a good bar rule that should be used more widely is that if the
eight is sunk on the break, the two players split the cost of a
re-rack. This makes it fair and works with the law of averages.
In regards to your comment about how everything should be called (caroms,
banks, etc), the only time you would be close to 100% sure of the
proper path of a shot is by instant slow motion replay. Have you noticed
how many times a ball will bounce around in a pocket before going in? How
would you be sure? I understand that you think only obvious banks and
others should be called, but everytime a ball bounces around in a pocket,
it is banking. And since it would be such a grey area as to where you
draw the line at calling, it was determined that it is easier to call
the ball and the pocket, so the game moves much faster.
JCB
Jamie Burr
I've noticed at a few bars I've been to, that they plexi-glass the house
rules on the wall opposite the pool table. In LARGE letters, I might add,
for all the blurry-eyed hustlers.
JCB
CARA FISH
Other than that most bars I've played in (NY, NJ, FL, CA, MA, NC & SC)
sinking the eight-ball on the break, except if the shooter scratch with
the cue, is a win. Some bars allow the loser to put his money in and shoot
again without having to wait until the end of the list.
For you none bar shooters the reason for no spot on any ball is because
the table eats them and dosen't spit them up again until you feed it with
some US currency
Dats Dat
CF.
Ron Shepard
>BCA rules are for the birds, i call it "busch
>league"
Busch league 8-ball rules are different from BCA rules. BCA 8-ball is
call shot, Busch league is slop shot.
>or slop pool; my opinion is that it should be more like
>snooker. Call everything, banks, caroms, kisses etc.
Hmmm. Snooker is not call shot. When shooting a red, you don't have to
call anything; when shooting a color, you only designate which color, not
the pocket (or banks, caroms, kisses).
>and you'll truly
>get respect from me and we will never have a disagreement.
If you try to call all banks and kisses, then you will surely get in a
disagreement with your opponent, probably before the first rack is
complete. IMHO, these rules are intended for those people who would
rather settle their differences out in the parking lot than play pool.
>I also
>think that making the 8 on the break is a truly religious
>experience...why spoil it. A lot of people put a lot of practice into
>breaking methodology in order to increase the occurence of this,
>albeit the intractability of pool puts a serious damper on this
>pursuit. In my mind, other than making the 8 on the break, you must
>intend on making THE ball that your shooting in THE pocket that your
>shooting to via THE path that you aim for...that is skill; all else is
>slop and should be scoffed at whenever encountered. Is this snooker
>talking or am i just a jerk? :-)
I wouldn't say that. :-) As I said, snooker is a slop-shot game. So is
one-pocket. Even in 14.1, you don't have to call banks, kisses, and
caroms. What one player regards as a measure of skill, another regards
as irrelevant.
There is a certain element of luck in pool, at all games and at all skill
levels. Lucky for me might be making a hard shot on a single ball; lucky
for someone else might be getting perfect position in order to run
another 30 balls. The challange in pool is to work the percentages in
your favor. You strive to not just run the 9-ball rack (or 8-ball, or
whatever), but to run it in the best, highest-percentage, most elegant
way possible.
Try looking at it this way. When a pocket has sideboards (a nearby
ball), then that increases the percentage of making another ball there.
Recognizing this, and using it in your favor, is an opportunity to strive
for excellence, that is, of achieving a higher percentage runout. Using
rules that would make you avoid such a shot removes any possibilities of
surpassing the mundane, and may even cause you to try a lower percentage
sequence of shots. Of course, you don't have to use the sideboards when
you make the shot, just the knowledge that they were there in principle,
increasing your odds, is the important point.
If you want to play a game that relies more on shotmaking ability, then
switch from 8-ball to 9-ball, or try snooker on a 12' table. But don't
change the rules to discourage excellence and to reward the irrelevant.
Just my opinion, pass the salt please.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Ron Shepard
she...@sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu (Ron Shepard) wrote:
[...]
>If you want to play a game that relies more on shotmaking ability, then
>switch from 8-ball to 9-ball, or try snooker on a 12' table.
I should have included playing on a tight-pocket pool table here too. I
was playing 9-ball sets on a table with 4-1/4" corner pockets a couple
weeks ago. If a ball dropped in one of those tiny things, by either me or
my opponent, we felt like we EARNED it! ;-)
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Doc Holliday
> > I don't know where you're from but thats not the way it goes in
> >the bars i've been in. I agree with guy that says that you have to
> >follow bar rules--thats a foregone conclusion. However if the rules
> >say that making the 8 on the break is a loss or foul then i simply
> >will not play there.
Good, then I won't have to worry about ever playing with you.
> >Bye the way, the object of 9-ball is to sink the balls in order too.
Hello! Sorry, but you can make combos in 9 ball. In 8 ball you *can't* (at
least not to make the 8 ball). Therefore when you make a 9 off the break it's
a combo. That's why it make sense that it is legal, it also makes sense why it
should be a foul in 8 ball. Both games have these rules for a purpose: they
work.
> >BCA rules are for the birds, i call it "busch league" or slop pool; my
> >opinion is that it should be more like snooker. Call everything, banks,
> >caroms, kisses etc. and you'll truly get respect from me and we will never
> >have a disagreement.
Sorry, but you don't call anything in Snooker, you don't have to, you never had
had to, and you never will have to (unless you're an American Snooker player,
but American Snooker is stupid)
> >pursuit. In my mind, other than making the 8 on the break, you must
> >intend on making THE ball that your shooting in THE pocket that your
> >shooting to via THE path that you aim for...that is skill; all else is
> >slop and should be scoffed at whenever encountered. Is this snooker
> >talking or am i just a jerk? :-)
Well, it's not snooker talking. Luck is part of the game, and as it is said in
The Color Of Money - 'Sometimes, luck itself, is a skill'
Nate.
P.S. - Snooker players are much too polite to say this kind of stuff :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Doc Holliday, aka Smi...@Meena.CC.Uregina.CA - I'm your huckleberry
One of the MANY resident idiots on alt.pinecone
'I have nothing to say and I am saying it'
Homepage http://meena.cc.uregina.ca/~smithn/nate.html
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-