simonis 860 vs. 760
chri...@my-deja.com
each (nylon, wool percentages)? Which cloth is faster? Which cloth wears
better? In what situation would you use each cloth?
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
barenada
760 is about a millions times faster, IMHO. This is not a good thing, also
IMHO.
My guess is that 760 will last longer because there is less friction between the
cloth and the balls. If there is indeed any friction.
Despite what the web page says, I think 860 is FAR more common than 760. I've
only ever seen 760 on one room's pool tables, and that was like 12 years ago. I
see 860 everywhere.
--
Dave <--- wonders if this will get double-posted
Hugh (Licking County Slim)
lets the cue ball "skid" more than 860
i think that's a bad thing
take care, and happy holidays
Hugh(LCS)
barenada <da...@spamsucks.barenada.com> wrote in message
news:t42etrr...@corp.supernews.com...
Earl Timmons
ohio. Wear seems to be about the same. I prefer 760 after playing on both.
I would buy 860 if I owned a pool room simply because it is much more
common.
chri...@my-deja.com wrote in message <91rchm$rgj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Bvinco
Personally, I think 760 is a *lot* faster. The 860 is much more player
friendly, IMO.
Becky
Earl Timmons <snipped>
>760 is a little faster
Otto
<chri...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:91rchm$rgj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> What are the relative merits of each cloth? What is the composition of
> each (nylon, wool percentages)? Which cloth is faster? Which cloth wears
> better? In what situation would you use each cloth?
Deno is the cloth expert here. He will give you the truth. I firmly believe
this.
Here is my experience(a casual playing know nothing who just reserved a room
for Derby City Classic--anyone want to put me up and save me some money?)
I have played on the rugs by Mali and whatever. They are rugs. Nothing wrong
with that. They just don't play the same.
Simonis860?--It seems to burn very easily. I have had brand new simonis 860
on my home table for about a month and it already has the 9 ball break "V"
burn mark. 760 does the same thing. Granito?--I don't know. Deno?
I allow jumps and masse's on my home table but the current one month wear is
not from any of those. It is just from being used. The bulk of the burn
marks are from hard breaks.
I do know the Granito Basalt has a higher wool content and therefore a lower
nylon content. They tell me it is the nylon that causes the burn marks.
Therefore given equal use the Granito basalt should burn less than the
simonis 860 if the use is the same.
Otto
Hugh (Licking County Slim)
Bvinco <bvi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001220205750...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
Ken Bour
years. The 760 is definitely faster, which is why I switched, but it is not
like playing on glass or bare slate or anything even remotely close to that
comparison.
My table is located in a basement which, during the spring and summer
months, picks up a lot of humidity. I run a dehumidifier, of course, but
the cloth still picks up moisture which slows things down. I have found
that, by switching to 760 at home, my table plays at about the same speed as
the S860 covered tables at the pool hall (2nd floor above ground) where the
conditions seem to be more arid than in my basement.
Ken Bour
<chri...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:91rchm$rgj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Deno J. Andrews <deno@ix.netcom.com
> I do know the Granito Basalt has a higher wool content and therefore a lower
> nylon content. They tell me it is the nylon that causes the burn marks.
> Therefore given equal use the Granito basalt should burn less than the
> simonis 860 if the use is the same.
This is as good as I could have put it! There is another thing to
remember...when on a home table, there is nothing to compare the cloth
to in the same room. Those tables tend to get a lot less play and any
marks tend to really stand out. Whereas in the pool room, all the cloth
wears at approx. the same rate, so that no one table looks much worse
than the others. But if you were to take a pool room cloth off and take
it home to compare with the home table cloth, there will most likely be
a huge difference; the cloth will look more faded. This is true because
there are so many burn marks that they just don't stand out like the
ones on the home tables, but the home tables color is much more
vibrant. This is assuming of course we are talking about worsteds.
Deno
chri...@my-deja.com
and noticed the differences. I wasn't sure how much was due to my
imagination. I have a 5x10 table and was told by my mechanic that 760
should be used because of the extra area. I am surprised that I actually
have more difficulty doing a straight back power draw on this table. The
ball doesn't seem to bite like 860 or bar cloth. There definitely is
more slide on the ball. I find I have to shoot softer and use more
center ball with angles rather than spinning the ball around. I find it
harder and more unforgiving than S860. Hopefully, these properties will
not detrimentally affect my game.
Ron Shepard
>ball doesn't seem to bite like 860 or bar cloth. There definitely is
These things are probably true, but this does not affect adversely the amount
of draw that you can get. The only thing that "bite" (i.e. higher friction)
can do to affect the amount of draw is to rub off the backspin before the cue
ball hits the object ball. After it the collision, and given the same spin and
speed on the cue ball in the two cases, the final speed and final angle that
the cue ball achieves does not depend on the cloth friction. On a slicker
cloth, the ball will slide for a longer time, but it will accelerate slower
while doing so, and the two things cancel out EXACTLY as far as the final ball
speeds and angles are concerned.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Patrick Johnson
> After it the collision, and given the same spin and
> speed on the cue ball in the two cases, the final speed and final angle that
> the cue ball achieves does not depend on the cloth friction.
A picky point: I think most people think of the cue ball's "final
angle" as a straight line from the location of the collision to where
the cue ball ends up, rather than as the straight line on which it's
rolling after it stops curving. So if the cue ball describes a wider
parabola (as it would on slicker cloth) and arrives at a different end
point, it will appear to most that the "final angle" is wider, even
though the final rolling lines are parallel.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Ron Shepard
>
>> After [the] collision, and given the same spin and
Yes, for some shots this is an important difference. For a straight back draw
shot, the angle part isn't important, it is the final ball speed, or the
resulting distance, that everyone thinks about. Some people think that "bite"
is better for such a draw shot. My point is that "bite" (meaning high
ball-cloth friction) always hurts, and never helps, in getting distance on a
simple draw shot.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Ken Bour
get less draw action. Quite the opposite is true. When the cueball slides
(less rubbing friction caused by the cloth), the reverse spin stays on the
ball longer which gives better draw action, all other things equal.
I have no trouble at all drawing on my S760 and it seems to be slightly
easier than the S860. Of course, the stroke has more to do with good draw
than the type of cloth, IMO.
Ken Bour
<chri...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:91t9ii$a12$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
tom simpson
<de...@ix.netcom.com" <"remove>"> wrote:
::Otto wrote:
::> I do know the Granito Basalt has a higher wool content and therefore a lower
::> nylon content. They tell me it is the nylon that causes the burn marks.
::> Therefore given equal use the Granito basalt should burn less than the
::> simonis 860 if the use is the same.
::
::This is as good as I could have put it! < snip >
::Deno
Deno:
Do you have any objective speed measurements for Granito v.
Simonis and the various cloth models? Perhaps the table speed
test numbers? Where does Basalt fall with respect to S760 and
S860?
Are you saying that Basalt gets speed and trueness and like
S860 without as much nylon? If so, are there any tradeoffs for
that (for example, does nylon add durability)?
tom simpson
Deno J. Andrews
These variables include how tight the cloth is stretched, what kind of
balls are used, the condition of the cloth, humidity, etc. If I were to do
this sort of experiment, it would be worthless because as soon as any one
of those variables changes, the results may not be the same. Plus, we are
not really into comparing the cloths with each other. We make a great
product, and so does Simonis. From that point, it is personal preference.
Deno
----------
In article <dag84tsb0rd7nnvim...@4ax.com>, tom simpson