Pro-sized pockets?
Edward Kagan
interested) told me that when they setup tables for television matches
(ESPN, etc.) pocket size varies between 4-3/4" and 5", and for women
they sometimes set them up at 5-1/4"!!! Can that be true? The table
that my buddy and I play 9-ball on has the tightest pockets in the
house - 4-1/4", they use this table for tournament finals, they also
have one with 4-3/4" pockets used for league play (APA, etc.), the
rest of the tables have 4-1/2" pockets. The league table (4-3/4")
seems way too easy - it's easy to cheat the pocket, pocket the ball
off the rail, etc. I cannot even begin imagining playing on a table
with 5-1/4" pockets! An extra inch of room would make it no fun.
Please tell me that this guy was wrong!
Ed Kagan
Los Angeles, CA
Kimberly & Shawn
I dont know if 5 and 1/4 is the exact measurement the guy that told you that
could be correct. I do know that the pockets they play on on television do
have very large pockets. Their reason is because people that watch the
matches on television want to see amazing shots, and a lot of bank shots.
You know as well as I do that a pro is not going to bank on a table with
really tight pockets. So to answer your question yes the pockets are very
large. Wish I had more info for you. Hope I helped at least a little.
Shawn
"Edward Kagan" <odes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2ad7b14f.02041...@posting.google.com...
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Rdplyr
have the pro-cut pockets that are 4 1/2 inch.
iamonds used in the
"Edward Kagan" <odes...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:2ad7b14f.02041...@posting.google.com...
Martin
5-1/4." It is unfortunate that there isn't better standardization for
a smaller pocket size. Although I prefer 4-1/4", I think 4-1/2"
pockets are a good compromise that would be satisfying enough for
intermediate to advanced players yet liberal enough for purely
recreational players. I generally won't patronize rooms with big
pocket tables.
Martin
odes...@pacbell.net (Edward Kagan) wrote in message news:<2ad7b14f.02041...@posting.google.com>...
Blkjackds
>You know as well as I do that a pro is not going to bank on a table with
>really tight pockets.
Shawn,
This simply is not true. The reasoning you give is wrong as well. If you have
never played under the TV lights, let me tell you, it's a trip. The pockets
have nothing to do with that either. Even though the pockets are usually
somewhere between 4 1/4 and 4 3/4. I never saw a 5 inch pocket on the MPBT,
nor do I think they switched to them after I left. The pockets on the Diamond
tables were doubly- tough because of the unforgiving pocket cut. Add that with
the heat from the TV lighting, a hot slick cloth, hot rubber on the rails, plus
camera cables to trip on every three or four steps, and you pretty much have
conditions that are tough beyond belief. Saying that the pros are good because
the pockets are bigger is a bit ridiculous and I'd challenge you to prove that.
My experience always was, that they would always go in the direction to make
the conditions more difficult, never easier. The pockets on the tables I
played upon as a pro did not accept junk.
Shawn also wrote:
>So to answer your question yes the >pockets are very large. Wish I had more
>info for you.
Not only do I wish you had more info, I wish you'd tell me what facts you've
based your assumption on. Just wondering.
Blackjack David Sapolis
El Paso, Texas
.
CE
> have the pro-cut pockets that are 4 1/2 inch.
>
City Classic (pro-cut 4 1/2" with Dymondwood rails)). It's one of the
toughest tables that i've ever played on. Should pay dividends on
league night though..lol.
C.E.
Clay
middle, or at the back by the cup?
The badger.
"Martin" <jazz...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:2edb2095.02041...@posting.google.com...
Ken Bour
POCKET OPENINGS & MEASUREMENTS (Cloth covered rails):
Pocket openings are measured from tip to tip of the opposing cushion noses
where direction changes into the pocket. This is called the mouth.
a.. Corner Pocket: Mouth Between 4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum
b.. Side Pocket: Mouth Between 5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum
c.. The angle at the corner pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is
142o (ą1o).
d.. The angle at the side pocket entrance on each side of the pocket is
103o (ą 2o).
e.. Vertical Pocket Angle: 12o minimum to 15o maximum.
f.. Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line
that goes from one side of the mouth to the other where the nose of the
cushion changes direction to the center of the vertical cut of the slate
pocket radius.
g.. Corner Pocket:
a.. 1 5/8" minimum to 1 7/8" maximum
b.. Side Pocket: 0" minimum to 3/8" maximum
h.. Drop Point Slate Radius: The pocket radius measured from the vertical
cut of the slate to the playing surface.
i.. Drop Point Slate Radius 1/8" radius min. to 1/4" radius max.
Ken Bour
"Martin" <jazz...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:2edb2095.02041...@posting.google.com...
lfigueroa
the rail two diamonds from the pocket and have it still go and you'll have a
pretty good idea of how loose the tables they play on are.
Lou Figueroa
"Blkjackds" <blkj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020420063040...@mb-ml.aol.com...
lfigueroa
equipment.
Lou Figueroa
"Kimberly & Shawn" <sas...@hcis.net> wrote in message
news:3cc0f...@corp.newsgroups.com...
Eddie
Our local WPBT players informed me that all preliminary matches are usually
contested on very tight tables. The TV rounds (if any) are played on very
forgiving equipment. The reasons for this seem obvious to me.
I would run it the same way myself. I do remember many WPBA shots on
telivision thinking, no way that ball goes in on the tables I play on.
Eddie in Detroit
Msgriffco
the pocket angle is 142 degrees.
They also make two other pockets opening sizes.
The TV tables used in different events;
Those are that manufacturers standard tables, Women use Brusnwick (sometimes
GCIV) and they have very forgiving pockets.
Prime example was the l4.1 event in NYC close to two years ago. They were
HUGE, and so were the runs.
Mark Griffin
Anchorage Billiard Palace
Patrick Johnson
> Diamond Pro-Cut pockets (used in all tournements) is 4-9/16 opening. I think
> the pocket angle is 142 degrees.
If Diamonds are angled at the BCA spec, that would mean all the more "accepting"
pockets with facing angles less than 142 degrees (i.e., most other tables) are
not to spec?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
jdub
compute the overall difficulty of pockets. It consists of the width of the
pocket at the tip, the throat angle of the jaws and the depth of the shelf.
There are tables that convert each of these values to numerical values,
which are then combined in some manner (sorry, I don't have the formula here
in front of me). The result is a number between 1-20. The higher the
number, the more difficult the pockets. I checked out my table and it was a
13+. Most room tables I play on seem to be in the 10-12 range. I know of
one table in Columbus that is a 17 and causes lots of wincing.
While it would seem that a narrower throat angle, the tougher the packet,
that is not necessarily true except on side pockets. On corner pockets, a
throat angle of 15 degrees has a significantly higher potential to kick out
balls or leave hangers. A throat angle of 0 degrees will almost always
allow balls that hit on that side edge of the rail to go in. As such, the
width of the pocket is not always a true measure of if a table plays tight
or loose. A table with 5" at the tips but a 15 degree throat angle and a
deep shelf plays much tougher than a 4.5" with a 5 degree angle and a short
shelf.
The biggest benefit of wide pockets is for the less accurate shooters on
shots for straight in to about 30 degrees off straight.
--Jim
"Rdplyr" <rdp...@ala.net> wrote in message
news:1j7w8.47850$To6.14...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Bob C
a tight pocket Table with under 3 inchs. And I like playing on it and so do
alot of oter pepole.
Jimbo Ct
Ummmmmmmm Can I get a definition of Destroy, and what are we betting?
Jim <----- Missed the last boat
lfigueroa
US TV are plain sloppy -- nothing to do with speed.
Lou Figueroa
"Dirk G. Straka" <Dirk....@GMX.de> wrote in message
news:vfa3cuse94tpu7clm...@4ax.com...
> Hi Lou,
>
> "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
> > You don't need a tape measure. Just turn on your TV and watch
> > the women hit the rail two diamonds from the pocket and have it
> > still go and you'll have a pretty good idea of how loose the tables
> > they play on are.
>
> That's not just a matter of possibly big(ger) pockets but of speed,
> angle and effet (english), too. And most women tend to play much
> softer than men, hence they can hit the rail a lot earlier.
>
> Greets, Dirk
> --
> Dirk Straka http://www.disclaimer.de/disclaimer.htm
>
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity
lfigueroa
intel OR are you just another blow hard bleed from the nose like a stuck pig
go off idiot who makes stupid challenges on the internet?
Please, we already have enough of those.
In any case, let me know when the two of you are coming to St. Louis so your
girlfriend and I can try and match up :-)
Lou Figueroa
"Dirk G. Straka" <Dirk....@GMX.de> wrote in message
news:dpa3cu0alai0atrmh...@4ax.com...
> Hi Lou,
>
> "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
> > Yes. And and da wimens can't do that stuff on even reasonably
> > tough equipment.
>
> Rubbish.
>
> I bet, my girlfriend would destroy you.
> And she's (of course) "just" a woman.
Donald Tees
propose a new award for ASB. The best insult of the month award. Surely an
internet pool room is THE formum for developement of internet specific
insults and curses. This is our chance to invent something truely new for
the modern world. Think of it ... the first new original curses in thousands
of years.
Donald
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:qWzw8.42723$QC1.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
jdub
freaking way you can pick up an extra 3/4"-1" on each end of rail made for a
table. Even with the pocket restrictor training aid in place you're at more
than 3".
--Jim
"Bob C" <tec...@skylands.net> wrote in message
news:hdtw8.110869$3L2.10...@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Patrick Johnson
> ... My room in Franklin NJ has a tight pocket Table
> with under 3 inchs.
So that's like 1/4 inch or so on each side of a ball?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Ron Shepard
"Bob C" <tec...@skylands.net> wrote:
Maybe you should measure again. At 3 inches, there isn't enough pocket
facing showing to allow a ball rolling along a cushion to go into the
pocket. The center of the ball will hit straight cushion, not pocket
facing.
I think the BCA specs should allow slightly tighter pockets than the
currect limit. Something in the 4 1/2 to 4 5/8 inch range is about
right I think, that's where most good players like the pockets to be. I
think the 1991 PBTA specs (the last year they were published) was in
this range. When pockets get below 4.5 inches then it gets to the point
that the pros can't do what the pros can do, they start looking like the
rest of us dufuses. I remember reading about the first Baton Rouge
one-pocket tournament, which had this problem. I think they tried to
play on 4 3/8 inch pockets in that tournament. The players were
fighting the pockets the whole time, and by the time the final few
matches came around, they were playing so tight that it wasn't fun to
play or to watch. I think the finals match was 4 or 5 hours long.
I also think that, whatever is the average pocket width on a table, the
other pockets should be very close to that value. For example, one
pocket should not be 4.5 inches while another pocket on the same table
is 4 3/4. That's too much variation If one pocket is tight, they
should all be tight. The same idea goes for shelf width and pocket
facing angles (or mouth/throat width differences, however the spec is
done). The pockets on a table should all play reasonably consistently.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Rich Shewmaker
--
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3CC2E38C...@attbi.com...
Bradley E. Robertson
Don's addled, reefer-head, peabrain, shows itself with this:
> "blow hard bleed from the nose like a stuck pig go off idiot who makes
> stupid challenges on the internet" ... I like that. I would like to
> propose a new award for ASB. The best insult of the month award.
Well Don, you have bleared the line between RSB and ASP with this brain fart
ASB. The fine for this offence is one Bogarted dubby(sp?) to be gifted to
the next red head you see.
Brad . . . ever vigilant
Gregory
> What did you do, put rails for a 9' table on a Pro-8? Sheesh,
there's no
> freaking way you can pick up an extra 3/4"-1" on each end of rail
made for a
> table. Even with the pocket restrictor training aid in place you're
at more
> than 3".
They went shim crazy!
Methinks a hunk of wood could be attached to the rail ends and new
rubber of sufficient length installed.
--
Gregory
Please include only relevant quotes, and reply below the quoted text.
Thanks
[Delete the one, five, and three for email.]
jdub
--Jim
"Gregory" <greye...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bOJw8.160068$gA5.12...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Gregory
[about a less than 3" pocket]
>
> So that's like 1/4 inch or so on each side of a ball?
3/8" for a 3"er. A 3" pocket is very close to the limit for mouth
openings wrt being able to pocket a ball down the rail. Any narrower
and the ball is hitting the cushion point.
A table that is narrowed in mouth width loses half of that amount in
shelf length. If this table originally had generous 5" pockets and a
1.75" shelf, it now has a .75" shelf. Yet, even with the shorter
shelf, the MW is much too narrow for my taste.
Scylla and Charybdis should be about 4 9/16" from each other, IMO.
Patrick Johnson
Well, since he said "under 3 inchs", it would be less than that, actually -- say
1/4 inch or so.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Bob C
"Ron Shepard" <ron-s...@NOSPAM.attbi.com> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-04EF...@netnews.attbi.com...
Bob Johnson
means it's too tight in the corners, by BCA specs?
Bob Johnson, Denver, Colorado
Home of the 1997/1998 World Champion Denver Broncos
Home of the 1996/2001 Stanley Cup Champion Avalanche
bo...@cris.com
"Ken Bour" <ken....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lwew8.3144$t65....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Gregory
> My table measures 4 5/8" in the corners, and 5 1/2" in the sides.
So, this
> means it's too tight in the corners, by BCA specs?
Yes, but the corners are OK by WPA specs and the sides are 3/8" too
wide. WPA says the sides are traditionally 1/2" wider than the
corners. You probably have some shims in the corners but none in the
sides.
WPA specs
corner 4.5" to 4.625"
side 5.0" to 5.125"
I take the discrepancy between BCA and WPA to mean "do what you like
except if the governing body you are sanctioning with is adamant about
the specs. Just try to get the sides 1/2" wider than the corners."
--
Gregory- assumptions, distortions, interpretations
Donald Tees
redhead too.
Donald
"Bradley E. Robertson" <br...@whidbey.com> wrote in message
news:uc6oh2r...@corp.supernews.com...
Donald Tees
You cannot really compare, of course, considering that a snooker table has
rounded cushions at the pockets, but the measurement should give a bit of an
indication.
Donald.
"Bob C" <tec...@skylands.net> wrote in message
news:3aNw8.147454$K5.12...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Patrick Johnson
Of what?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Donald Tees
Donald
"Patrick Johnson" <patrick...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3CC4354F...@attbi.com...
lfigueroa
Do you have reliable intel OR are you just another blow hard bleed from the
nose like a stuck pig go off idiot who makes stupid challenges on the
internet?
And from Jimbo:
What do you want to bet and what's your definition of "destroy."
Lou Figueroa
"Dirk G. Straka" <Dirk....@GMX.de> wrote in message
news:f1b8cuc0l5p9f4vmf...@4ax.com...
> Hi Lou,
>
> "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
> > In any case, let me know when the two of you are coming to St. Louis
> > so your girlfriend and I can try and match up :-)
>
> Rest assured, we'll do so.
>
> Perhaps we can settle an appointment at the World Championship in July?
> I suppose you're in Taiwan, too?
lfigueroa
"I bet, my girlfriend would destroy you."
So I'm curious as to what you based this claim on. Here, "destroy" might
be 9-0 or 9-1 at 9ball, or say 150-30 at 14.1, or 5-0 or 5-1 at one pocket.
Is it just because your girlfriend can beat a few female Finns and Swedes?
Or, is it because:
You're just another blow hard bleed from the nose like a stuck pig
go off idiot who makes stupid challenges on the internet?
Come on Dirk, inquiring minds want to know
Lou Figueroa
"Dirk G. Straka" <Dirk....@GMX.de> wrote in message
news:bi59cusc3f3lp36mk...@4ax.com...
> Hi Lou,
>
> "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
> > Dirk, you ignored all of the questions posed:
>
> So you're just a poser?
>
> Greets, Dirk - shutting down his calendar application.
JB
--
John B.
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:T_bx8.46017$QC1.3...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...