Opinions on Custom Cuemakers
James Winter
I'm curious to get opinions on who people would rate as the top five
custom cuemakers (who are still currently producing cues), taking into
consideration both collectability/desireability, and playability?
I know the playability part is (at least partly) subjective, and the
collectability part has a lot to do with name and reputation, but I'm
really just interested in hearing about people's own opinions in terms
of preference and desireability.
(One reason I ask is because I have a friend who is a collector, and
I've been having conversations lately with him on this topic--he has
definite opinions--and I'm curious how others' opinions compare).
Brian King
Tim Scruggs
Barry Szamboti
Bill Stroud
Paul Mottey
Keith Josey
Southwest
Richard Black
A few personal favorites,
Brian King
Strokerz Billiard Pub
www.strokerz.com
Jimbo Ct
5) Paul Mottey
4) Mike Bender
3) Bill Schick
2) Thomas Wayne
drum roll
1) Ernie Gutierrez
You asked for 5 I gave 5, you can also round out the top 10 with guys like
Richard Black, Tad, Bill Stroud, Samsara, Ed Pruitt, and Barry Szamboti for
collectability
or
Tim Scruggs, Southwest, Cognoscenti, and Mike Lambros for hit. But I'll stick
with my top 5 even if I'm friends with many of the guys on the list and the
ones I left off and I piss them all off. Sorry guys.
Jim <-----So what's your collector pal been telling you?
PS I reserve the right to add the 1 or 2 guys I forgot at 5:45 am after a night
of many drinks.
Hugh(LCS)
etc??
--
The General
RH Arnold
Jimbo Ct <jim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020527054604...@mb-fi.aol.com...
Texas Willee
I have not been on the computer for a while (I got a life you know) so how
you been?
Texas Willee
Texas Willee
best.
The glass pin does more to set the cue apart from other than affect the
"hit".
If you think the thing makes the cue hit better ...... then it does.
Texas Willee
"Hugh(LCS)" <rh...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:LCoI8.6865$fg3.2...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Mike L.
their cues:
6) Paul Mottey
5) Dennis Searing
4) Pete Tascarella
3) Joel Hercek
2) Mike Bender
1) Ernie Gutierrez - Ginacue (Have to agree with Jimbo on this one!)
Sam Rullo
I have to agree with you on most of your top ten cue makers. I have
owned a Barry Szamboti and a Scruggs. I still own a Mottey. But you
left out one of the top 5 in my opinion. Tony Scianella of Black Boar
cues. His cues are nothing but flat out impressive. I own one now and
would like to get another someday.
Sam Rullo
I agree with most of your picks but in my opinion you left out one of
the best. Tony Sciannella of Black Boar cues. His work is just flat
out impressive.
bruin70
in "hit" is different. but i think one can be more objective about
resale value.
...in no particular order,,,,,,,,guitierrez, tad, kershenbrock,
stroud, schick/or black.
David Malone
>Tony Sciannella of Black Boar cues. His work is just flat
>out impressive.
We heard you the first time, Sam... (grin)
David "The Hamster" Malone.
SeanB
2. Ernie Gutierrez
3. Paul Mottey
4. Bill Schick
5. Bill Stroud
Tad is right up there, too, and could easily be inserted somewhere in
this list. All of these guys produce fine cues that are obviously
both "collectible" and "playable"...some perhaps more one than the
other. IMO, given the parameters of your question, these make up a
pretty good top 5 list.
Sean
www.cueaddicts.com - fine custom cues for play or for the
discriminating collector - BUY, SELL, & TRADE
James Winter
here--
Mottey, Wayne and Gutierrez. I think Mottey is his current
favorite.
Deno J. Andrews
its use in pool cues. The idea is to have something about as heavy as
wood, but much stronger. It is a much different hit than with a steel
joint.
Deno J. Andrews
Hugh(LCS)
i know joe gold uses them..and i didnt know if it was an advantage or
looks..etc etc
--
The General
RH Arnold
Deno J. Andrews <de...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3CF2D5DD...@ix.netcom.com...
sheldoncue
>
> I'm curious to get opinions on who people would rate as the top five
> custom cuemakers (who are still currently producing cues), taking into
> consideration both collectability/desireability, and playability?
Mcworter
Nitti
Bender
Dishaw
Searing
all very high quality cues
Sheldon <----- will be on the list someday
Mike L.
> looks..etc etc
It's not really an "advantage", per say. It's just a different philosophy
that Joe has. Also, they are not with out problems. I know of several of
these pins snapping right at the base of the butt. The problem with G-10 is
not in the actual strength, which they claim is stronger then steel
(depending on the diameter), but in lateral strength, or the resistance to
side force. The fact that Joe will replace them at no charge still does not
solve the problem...
Mike L.
Bob Johnson
Buss
Annie O
Carpenter
Showcase,
(all RSB/ASP posters)
and my bonus pick, Ray Schuler
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Colorado
Home of the 1997/1998 World Champion Denver Broncos
Home of the 1996/2001 Stanley Cup Champion Avalanche
bo...@cris.com
"sheldoncue" <sheld...@BITEMEhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns921BBCB594720si...@204.127.202.16...
Ron Shepard
"Mike L." <bmi...@nospam.net> wrote:
> The problem with G-10 is
> not in the actual strength, which they claim is stronger then steel
> (depending on the diameter), but in lateral strength, or the resistance to
> side force.
Is this really the claim? If so, then that would surprise me. I expect
the real feature is that it is stronger than an equivalent weight of
steel. There are synthetic ropes like this too, stronger than steel by
weight, but the rope is thicker than an eqivalent steel cable.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
LunarK9
Southwest : Always a waiting list.
Bobby Hunter : Very Good.
Jerry McWorter : Very Good.
J.D. Dolan
Tough question, but I'd say my top five (in no particular order) are:
Barry Szamboti
Joel Hercek
Mike Bender
Bill Schick
Tim Scruggs
I've owned, or currently own, or have on order, cues from all of them
except Bill Schick.
J.D.
Chas
> ......cues from all of them
> except Bill Schick.
What a marvel that guy is.
--
Chas Clements
casemaker 303-364-0403
ch...@kuntaosilat.net
http://www.kuntaosilat.com/
http://chasclements.tripod.com/index.htm
Fred Agnir
> I'm curious to get opinions on who people would rate as the top five
> custom cuemakers (who are still currently producing cues), taking into
> consideration both collectability/desireability, and playability?
>
Knowing absolutely nothing about custom cues, the very first names I
heard of 15-20 years ago for custom cue work were Bill Stroud, Richard
Black, Ernie Gutierrez and Tad Kohara. And today, they still seem to
be the names thrown around, so I guess those four are my top 5 ;-)
I personally only have a list of two cuemakers of whom I expect to own
in the near future, and a few others that are in fantasy land. South
West, and a Mike Lambros with ultra joint are the two. The fantasy
land cues are from all of the others above.
Fred
Mike L.
> the real feature is that it is stronger than an equivalent weight of
> steel. There are synthetic ropes like this too, stronger than steel by
> weight, but the rope is thicker than an eqivalent steel cable.
That's HIS claim, anyway. Your interpretation of it is probably more
accurate then the claim though. I think the weight savings is probably the
biggest benefit. The truth is that G-10 is NOT as strong as steel at
certain diameters. This claim also does not apply to lateral strength,
either. Again the proof is that these pins snap (brittle) as opposed to
flex like a metal pin. Grant it, the cases I've heard of them snapping are
when people use G-10 pins on a break stick and keep their hand planted so
the stick has to bend (like Mike Sigel). I have not heard of one snapping
under "normal" playing use.
billy shears
I'd be willing to bet that if you had Szamboti, Scruggs, Black,
Schick, Stroud, Mottey and a few others build a cue with the same
specs, same joint & pin, put a blind fold on and hit a few balls you
would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the hit.
>
> J.D.
Frank G
> I'd be willing to bet that if you had Szamboti, Scruggs, Black,
> Schick, Stroud, Mottey and a few others build a cue with the same
> specs, same joint & pin, put a blind fold on and hit a few balls you
> would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the hit.
>
>
the same. I don't know how these particular people d0 this, so they may
well all do it the same, but I seriously doubt it.
Just my $.02
--
Frank G
Frank-at-Quick-Clean.com
Clean your pool table cloth with our unique product.
www.quick-clean.com
Unknown
in their area and then there are those cue makers whose work is
elevated to a national and international level. Why exactly this
elevation happens is not clear to me but I have noticed that many
times the key reasons seem to be centered around playability of the
cue, respect given by key dealers and collectors, availability of
examples of the cuemakers work (with long waiting lists driving up
prices and desirability). There have been a number of cuemakers
mentioned in these posts that IMHO do not match up with some of the
names mentioned like Ginacue. There are definitely many, many more
high quality cue makers nowadays than at any other time in the history
of the game, so I would also add in that nearly all of the names
listed here could make a jam up cue. With all that said, here are my
current favorites:
Ginacue: Steller pedigree, sky high collectibility esp on the earlier
cues (1st generation). Unique and unusual experimentation by E.G.
throughout the 40 years he has been making cues also warrant his place
on this list.
Bender: Very long wait list (like over 3 years now i think). Mike does
amazing inlay work, with flawless recut points. Ask other cuemakers
whom they have respect for and many will mention Mike Bender.
Searing: Its hard to find his cues for sale and I live about 20
minutes from his shop. Every cue I have seen of his hits like a
monster. Dennis is more regionally known but all you need to do is ask
some pro players about his cues (for example try asking Buddy Hall or
Jeremy Jones or Mizerak)
Southwest: Honestly, I include them on the list even though I am
unsure about their current product having not hit with a Southwest
made after 1999. Southwests have to be included on this list because
of the resale capability and the consistent great hit they deliver.
Here is one good reason I like Southwests: I have owned 7 of them in
my lifetime and ALWAYS sold them for a profit. One time I turned over
a JF era SW and made 25% on my investment and held the cue less than 1
month! and this was buying and selling between myself and two dealers,
not some lucky deal I consummated with newbies.
Dead Cuemakers
Peterson, G. Szamboti, Balabuska, Jerry Franklin represent some of the
cream of the crop for collectibility. Positioning yourself into one of
these cues is arguably a better investment than buying 300 shares of
any stock/mutual fund. John Wright in Chicago, a noted cue dealer, was
interviewed by the Wall Street journal some years back and he showed
them that over a certain period of time how Josswest cues had
outperformed the market. Authentication and getting yourself into
investment cues at the right price may be the hardest part here, but
done right I think these cues will outperform 95%+ of all the current
living cuemakers works.
Lastly I want to add in some info on what have been difficult cues to
resell that were listed by people here. This is not to bag on these
cuemakers, in fact I believe all the cuemakers here make quality
product, this is simply a reflection on what I have personally
experienced.
Hard to sell (followed by what I think was the problem)
Dishaw (not well known enough, too many variances in the hit of the
cues)
Cognescenti (too expensive for what the cue is, i thought the hit was
too mushy)
Black Boar (not enough demand/recognition)
Josey ((not enough demand/recognition)
Mcworter (not enough demand/recognition)
Nitti (not enough demand/recognition)
Selling high end cues on Ebay is a tricky thing as often times it
depends on how many of that cuemakers cues have been on the site
recently and more importantly who is bidding. In the years that I have
been watching Ebay auctions on cues, I can tell you that just one guy
who is actively collecting can raise prices on the custom cue market
on ebay. Last year there was one guy in particular out in Colorado
that had some major changes in his life and was coping by buying
hundreds of cue sticks online. When this one guy stopped, there was a
significant drop in the prices.
Jimbo Ct
followings
>in their area and then there are those cue makers whose work is
>elevated to a national and international level.
and then goes on to say: >There have been a number of cuemakers
>mentioned in these posts that IMHO do not match up with some of the
>names mentioned like Ginacue.
and then in his top 5 : >Searing: Its hard to find his cues for sale and I live
about 20
>minutes from his shop.
Hey Dave, Dennis does make a nice playing cue, but to put him in the top 5 is a
bit silly. If the list was just about playability you might have an argument,
but since the original post was asking for overall top 5 I think Dennis misses
the cut right now. Not to mention if we add in being a good businessman Dennis
might make the bottom 5, I've know Dennis since before he was making cues (89)
and have since moved from Florida, but I've been waiting about 6 years for a
cue that was going to take 6 months to make, so maybe the hit outweighs the bad
business practices but putting him in a top 5 list is just a stretch for anyone
to buy.
Jim <----next time you drive 20 minutes to see him tell him Jim in CT is still
waiting.
John Collins
five)
Joe Piccone - South Florida
Franz Hauber - Germany
Dan Janes - Joss Cues
Russ Espiritu
Jacoby - Dave and Brandon
Jim Waugh
Ted Harris
Tim Scruggs
Nubs Wagner - Nova
Roland Becker
Jerry Olivier
That's my overall list based on lot's of criteria beyond fame. Since this
question is so subjective it's hard to get qualified answers.
If I had to list my favorite cuemakers based on hit and then design I pick
the following:
1. Bill Stroud - JossWest
2. Tim Scruggs
3. Cognoscenti - Joe Gold
4. Black Boar - Tony Scianella
5. Schon - Early Schon Pre-1992ish.
If I had to list my favorite cuemakers based on design and then hit I pick
the following:
1. Thomas Wayne
2. Richard Black
3. Bill Schick
4. Bill Stroud
5. Prather
6. Richard Chudy/Paul Mottey (Sorry couldn't choose)
7. Russ Espiritu
8. Mike Bender
9. Michael Vollmer - Germany
10. Samsara
11. Paul Drexler - PfD Studios
ach - there are so many great ones it's hard to make a list, but these
artists have all made cues that I dream about.
John
James Winter
is the list of top cuemakers (in no particular order):
Stroud
Schick
Gutierrez
Bender
Mottey (my collector friend's current favorite)
South West
Scruggs
Szamboti
Black
I'll take two of each please.
James Winter wrote:
>
> I'm curious to get opinions on who people would rate as the top five
> custom cuemakers (who are still currently producing cues), taking into
> consideration both collectability/desireability, and playability?
>
> I know the playability part is (at least partly) subjective, and the
> collectability part has a lot to do with name and reputation, but I'm
> really just interested in hearing about people's own opinions in terms
> of preference and desireability.
>
> (One reason I ask is because I have a friend who is a collector, and
> I've been having conversations lately with him on this topic--he has
> definite opinions--and I'm curious how others' opinions compare).
James Winter
James Winter
For what it's worth, tabulating (unofficially) the responses, here
Jimbo Ct
(and more than
>five)
>
>Joe Piccone - South Florida
>Franz Hauber - Germany
>Dan Janes - Joss Cues
>Russ Espiritu
>Jacoby - Dave and Brandon
>Jim Waugh
list of the 5 top cuemakers based on hit and collectability / desirability and
you gave a pussy answer that lists over 25 guys and your first list you made
was a popularity contest. I mean Nubs Wagner ??? The only creative cues to come
from Nova were done by Miller, the rest is production CNC junk, I've seen more
creativity in Bob Meucci's little pinky finger. Roland Becker ??? Isn't he the
guy that Ted Danson plays on that CBS TV show??? Ted Harris may be a nice guy
and a great cue repairman, but is he even doing inlays??? I know much of the
list can be subjective when you talk about hit, but the other main concern was
collectability and desirability and you listed over 25 guys and left off Ernie,
you must have gone mad. I think if you polled the guys on your list at least
85% would admit to being under Ernie in these 2 categories, you know who the 2
or 3 with the egos are and they would say they are even with him, but to leave
him off your drunken list was silly. I still like ya John but I fear long hours
and cheap beer may have gotten the best of you tonight.
Jim <------Just my opinion of coarse ;-)
John Collins
these cuemakers has made a cue for me and each of them hits great and looks
great.
The other two lists are based on being in the industry for over 12 years and
seeing the work of these makers evolve over the years.
GinaCues don't turn me on. I agree that in a poll of top cuebuyers, players
and dealers that Gina would certainly be in the top ten, five or maybe even
number one but not with my vote. And this is primarily due to the fact that
I have very little hands on experience with Gina cues. But designwise I
have seen very little variance in Ernie's work, up and down points with
butterfly veneers in between, lot's of old style diamonds, all very prettily
arranged but not particularly innovative anymore. Granted, a lot of the
designs out there now by other cuemakers can be directly linked to Ernie's
first designs of this type but my design list is based on those that I feel
have pushed the envelope beyond even what Ernie has done.
Even if the creative stuff was done by Steve Miller, it was done under
Nova's name on Nub's cues. We are doing a lot of artistic stuff on the
Instroke cases that are not my ideas but are done on my chassis. That way I
don't put out a pretty case which doesn't work.
That's why I said the question is subjective. How many people in the
country have ever really seen a fair sampling of the work of the guys most
experienced players/buyers would pick as the top five? Most people are
colored by their local experiences in my opinion.
The cuemakers I picked as my top choices - in no order - are all my personal
friends whose work is familiar to me. Would they get win the Miss America
Cue Paegent - probably not, with the exception of Espiritu who is always a
contenda'.
Roland Becker does more in his part time cuemaking business than a lot of
full time, big name cuemakers do all year. For those of you who do not
know, Roland Becker does the pantagraph inlay templates for Southwest's
inlay cue orders.
Ted Harris - The cue I have is just plain solid - after three years the
rings are still like new and the cue hits like gold. All cuemakers should
aspire to build as solid a cue as Ted makes. (and deliver them sooner) :-))
And for the record: Bob Meucci is in fact a creative genius and his designs
continue to drive the company. Bob was the first cuemaker to push the
design envelope way out there. A lot of great cuemakers today owe Bob a
debt of gratitude for pioneering the "artistic" cue.
And that is my ballsy opinion - wanna get bopped??? :-))
John
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020529041839...@mb-fi.aol.com...
Joe Van
>I'm curious to get opinions on who people would rate as the top five
>custom cuemakers (who are still currently producing cues), taking into
>consideration both collectability/desireability, and playability?
In my opinion is collectability / desirability of current cuemakers:
Barry Szamboti
Ginacue
Mottey
Tascarella
Southwest
Honorable mention: Tad
These are cues that are hard to get both new and on the secondary
market. My list is in no particular order, and doesn't reflect playability.
Joe
www.classiccues.com for a vast selection of collectible cues. ..