Cue Ball Specs
Bob Johnson
The red triangle ball, for example, is for the Super Aramith Pro set, I
think.
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
Home of the back to back World Champion Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Bob Jewett <jew...@netcom13.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7v0jb9$l3p$7...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
> In rec.sport.billiard Steven M. Cohen <pamc...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> > How does the cue ball differ from object balls in terms of diameter
> > and weight? Is there a difference between the cue balls with red dots
> > versus blue dots?
>
> The cue ball ought to be the same size and weight as the object balls.
> I think the BCA equipment specifications have no details on weight
> matching, just a very loose weight requirement (5.5 to 6 ounces). In
> comparison, the rules for carom billiards require a set of balls to be
> matched to within one gram out of about 210. I have seen sets of pool
> balls with about a 3-gram range.
>
> There have been reports here before about the various cue balls, but
> I don't remember what people reported. I don't recall having seen
> anything about this from the manufacturers.
>
> Bob Jewett
>
Steven M. Cohen
weight?
Is there a difference between the cue balls with red dots versus blue dots?
Thanks,
Steve
Bob Jewett
The cue ball ought to be the same size and weight as the object balls.
Ciaran McNulty
balls, so that it can be returned automatically, when potted, while all the
other balls are retained by the table.
This is the case with the majority of pool tables in the UK.
-Ciaran
Bob Johnson wrote in message <7v0qkh$3...@journal.concentric.net>...
>I believe the cue balls are matched to the weight of the different sets.
>The red triangle ball, for example, is for the Super Aramith Pro set, I
>think.
>
>--
>Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
>Home of the back to back World Champion Broncos!
>bo...@cris.com
>Bob Jewett <jew...@netcom13.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:7v0jb9$l3p$7...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
Ninebal310
Some cueballs are weighted (magnetic) so that they work in the pay tables.
Others are a little bigger than the other balls. Certain cueballs will only
work in certain tables (pay tables). As far as teh red dot and the blue dot, I
have no idea waht the difference is. I have also heard of a green dot. None of
the "dot" balls will work in pay tables. Some pay tables use a ball that has
metal particles mixed-in instead of the weight. The metal flake balls are
lighter than the weighted balls therefore you can get more draw and/or english.
Hustlin' Hank
Fred Agnir
nineb...@aol.com (Ninebal310) wrote:
> >>> In rec.sport.billiard Steven M. Cohen <pamc...@adelphia.net>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > How does the cue ball differ from object balls in terms of
diameter
> >>> > and weight? Is there a difference between the cue balls with
red dots
> >>> > versus blue dots?
> >>>
>
> Some cueballs are weighted (magnetic) so that they work in the pay
tables.
As far as cueball return systems go, "weighted" and "magnetic" are two
different concepts. It just so happens that some cueballs are
"weighted" with ferrous materials. The oversized cueballs work on the
"weighted" system with no magnetics. Likewise, there are "magnetic"
systems that use cueballs with the nominal weight.
IMNSHO, the best system out there is the one using the cueball with a
cage/frame steel insert. These cueballs are ground down to about .010"
under the nominal BCA spec. diameter. The weight, however, is right at
5.75 oz., the inferred BCA nominal weight. The return system uses a
high-power magnet to shift this cueball to the proper area.
Diamond has come up with an electronic sensor in their new bar table
which reads the reflection off of several areas of each passing ball.
The "average reflection" is used to determine if the ball is the
cueball.
> Others are a little bigger than the other balls. Certain cueballs
will only
> work in certain tables (pay tables). As far as teh red dot and the
blue dot, I
> have no idea waht the difference is.
Generally, each pool ball brand will uniquely mark their cueball. For
example, newer Brunswick Centennials have a dark blue circle on their
cueball, while Super Pro Aramiths have a red triangle on their cueball.
>I have also heard of a green dot. None of
> the "dot" balls will work in pay tables.
Dynamo tables use a red dot cueball. The Dynamo red dot is one of the
heaviest "normal diameter" cueballs out there. There are, however,
other red dot cueballs that are "normal" size. Both are available
through Muellers.
>Some pay tables use a ball that has
> metal particles mixed-in instead of the weight. The metal flake balls
are
> lighter than the weighted balls therefore you can get more draw
and/or english.
The "metal flake" or "universal B" or "mud" ball is both heavier and
magnetically-affected. Maybe you mean the metal cage/frame ball? The
"mud ball's" biggest problem, IMO, is that its surface is rougher than
a "normal" cueball.
--
Regards,
Fred Agnir
Templeton, MA
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jennifer Pass
There's a blue dot, blue circle, red dot and red circle. So be careful when
generally referring to red or blue dot. There are actually 4 fitting that
vague description.
On a similar note, let's take a poll. What's your favorite cue ball?
Mine = red circle cue ball
Jennifer
Steven M. Cohen <pamc...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:CRPQ3.406$f5.2...@server1.news.adelphia.net...
> How does the cue ball differ from object balls in terms of diameter and
> weight?
> Is there a difference between the cue balls with red dots versus blue
dots?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
>
Mountain Mike^^
Jennifer Pass wrote in message <7v20ea$61u$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
>On a similar note, let's take a poll. What's your favorite cue ball?
>
least). MM^^
Jennifer Pass
and like it... other balls feel too sluggish or too lite. I'm not an expert
on what the differences are between the balls, I just know that there are
differences and I can feel them.
Jennifer
Mountain Mike^^ <gam...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7v21ot$jnj$1...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net...
Fred Agnir
>There's a blue dot, blue circle, red dot and red circle. So be careful
when
>generally referring to red or blue dot. There are actually 4 fitting that
>vague description.
>
Let's not forget the red triangle, black circle, green dot, yellow moons,
blue diamonds, and green clovers.
>On a similar note, let's take a poll. What's your favorite cue ball?
>
>Mine = red circle cue ball
Why?
I have a variety of cueballs at home. If I know before-hand what kind of
cueball will be used at the next tournament or league match, I'll practice
with that one. I currently have:
"Normal" Cueballs
1- Red Circle (Super Aramith Pro)
1- Blue Circle (Brunswick Centennials)
1- Blue Dot (Old Brunswick Centennials)
2- "fake" Belgian (from my broken ball sets)
"Bar Table" Cueballs
1- Dynamo Red Dot
2- Valley Cage Insert
1- Oversize (2 3/8" diameter)
2- Universal B (Mud/Gray balls)
1- Plug/Slug (Single Sided)
Regards,
Fred Agnir <----Mueller's preferred customer
Templeton, MA
Eric Weigand
Green dots are magnetic AND weighted. Should work in most coin-op tables. I
bought some, on recommendation from a part supplier AND manufacturer,
because I had two different systems being used in one location. If players
switched the cue-balls the tables would cease to return them.
On a related note I had some frustration lately with one table. I converted
the table to blacklight pool. The special ball set included a glowing cue-
ball. Turns out the cue ball was magnetic and not weighted. The table I had
converted used a scale system. I had to put a green dot in the table, and
that ball doesn't light up at all.
I took the mechanism out of the table. (Without lifting the slate mind you)
and readjusted the weight to the most sensitive end. I then played around
with some small magnets opposite the scale. I finally got them in a place
that put enough pull on the cue ball without getting into the ball path. It
has worked for a couple of weeks now.
-eric
Bryan Mordt
case your friends think they can get you with that old gag. Boy would you show
them. LOL
Bryan Mordt
Bryan's Pro Shop
Phoenix, Az.
(602) 371-3992
Eric Lim
> blue diamonds, and green clovers.
greg miller
Ron Hudson
>> On a similar note, let's take a poll. What's your favorite cue ball?
>
>I like the one that's the same size and shape as the object balls.
By the way, if you should happen to encounter a red dot cue ball, should you
always turn the cue ball so that the red dot is on top before you shoot?
Ron
>
Ron Hudson
wrote:
>Don't forget folks there is a huge variety of cue balls on the market.
>There's a blue dot, blue circle, red dot and red circle. So be careful when
>generally referring to red or blue dot. There are actually 4 fitting that
>vague description.
Red dot or blue dot seems pretty selectively descriptive to me. A dot is not a
circle or a triangle - it's a dot. Does this really confuse you?
Ron
gide...@my-deja.com
Fred Agnir <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> IMNSHO, the best system out there is the one using the cueball with a
> cage/frame steel insert. These cueballs are ground down to about
>.010"
> under the nominal BCA spec. diameter. The weight, however, is right
>at
> 5.75 oz., the inferred BCA nominal weight. The return system uses a
> high-power magnet to shift this cueball to the proper area.
>
> Diamond has come up with an electronic sensor in their new bar table
> which reads the reflection off of several areas of each passing ball.
> The "average reflection" is used to determine if the ball is the
> cueball.
Fred, are you saying you prefer the cage/frame steel insert to the
diamond scanner? I haven't seen the Diamond, but I can't see what the
down side is (other than cost to the room owner). Is there one?
Regards,
Gideon
gide...@my-deja.com
"Fred Agnir" <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I currently have:
>
> "Normal" Cueballs
>
> 1- Red Circle (Super Aramith Pro)
My Super Pros came with a Red Triangle. What gives?
SHVNC
always turn the cue ball so that the red dot is on top before you shoot?
Ron>>
Ron, don't waste your time with those "red dot balls". "Stalker" has a cue ball
that is radially spliced, into 10 perfectly equal sections. It is rumored to
reduce scratches by 15%.
Ron Hudson
Well, good. I can see how that would be more convenient. I just was having
trouble understanding how they found the spine of the cue balls.
Ron
Steven M. Cohen
circle cue balls in terms of weight and diameter?
Jennifer Pass wrote in message <7v20ea$61u$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
Steven M. Cohen
variety you are talking about out there, and I'd like to know the specs of
each. Also, what are used in BCA tournaments, etc.
Thanks.
>"Normal" Cueballs
>
>1- Red Circle (Super Aramith Pro)
Fred Agnir
gide...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7v2qdp$v1u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <7v22o7$5n5$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Fred Agnir" <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I currently have:
>>
>>
>> 1- Red Circle (Super Aramith Pro)
>
>
You're right. The Red Circle is the "Champion" by Aramith cue ball. I
don't know if it comes with a set of object balls.
Joey
Ron).
I purchased a set of Brunswick Centennials yesterday and they came with a
blue circle cue ball. As soon as we started playing with the set we noticed
a couple of different things. The balls rolled further, especially
noticeable was the cue ball. The blue circle cue seemed to "float" more.
It would roll further than expected on all shots. We assumed it was because
of the cleanliness of the cue ball.
We did a layman's test and had three people hold the Blue Circle cue in one
hand and the red dot cue ball in the other hand. All three people said the
blue circle cue ball was lighter in weight. NOTE: The red dot cue ball was
over 2 years old. The blue circle cue ball was 1 day old.
Does a cue ball lose size as it ages?
Do object balls lose size as they age?
I like most of you have heard that the one ball can shrink in size by being
hit harder with more frequency than the rest of the balls. I don't know if
this is a pool freak's tale or not.
We then measured the size of the blue dot and it was slightly LARGER than
the red dot cue ball.
We then tried hitting both cue balls with the same amount of force. You
guessed it. The blue dot would take off faster and go further than the red
dot cue.
Keep in mind, we are not physicists. We don't even have a scale here in
Louisiana. Who needs one? We all cook by instinct and have no need for
measuring devices or scales ;-) I would be interested in any observations
that you may have made about the various cue balls as well as comments about
my observations.
Thanks for your input in advance.
Joey Aguzin
Steven M. Cohen <pamc...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:tu6R3.430$f5.2...@server1.news.adelphia.net...
Joey
Joey Aguzin
Jennifer Pass <jenn...@jessnjenn.net> wrote in message
news:7v22c2$olu$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
bobgreen
Is it known yet what kind of cue balls will be used in the 2000 BCA
championship in Vegas in May? I guess they're going to use Valley tables
again? I plan to buy a ball & practice with it prior to the tournament.
Thanks
Bob
Deno J. Andrews
them as small as 60.2 (apprx). Also, as you have said, the cleanliness of
the ball has a lot to do with the extra roll and 'float'. If the ball is
clean with a finish on it (like all new balls), there is less friction
between the cloth and the balls helping it roll more.
Deno
----------
In article <N3jR3.10954$I_5....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>, "Joey"
Jennifer Pass
again, I'm just drilled into the red circle ball because that's all Hard
Times uses in the tournament racks. I think all of this is just a matter of
preference. Even the big cue ball is fun occassionally on a bar table
because it's a whole different game.
JP
Joey <agu...@cmq.com> wrote in message
news:N3jR3.10954$I_5....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
Jennifer Pass
JP
Joey <agu...@cmq.com> wrote in message
news:65jR3.10958$I_5....@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
Fred Agnir
Joey wrote in message <65jR3.10958$I_5....@dfw-read.news.verio.net>...
>Who manufactures the red circle cue ball?
>
Saluc of Belgium. They manufacturer some 80% of the billiard balls out
there including Super Pro Aramith and Brunswick Centennials.
Fred Agnir
gide...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7v2q4b$uue$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <7v21cq$bvf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>Fred, are you saying you prefer the cage/frame steel insert to the
>diamond scanner? I haven't seen the Diamond, but I can't see what the
>down side is (other than cost to the room owner). Is there one?
I only saw this table/system at Valley Forge this year, and have no idea
whether they are in production. If what they described to me is correct,
then I would think that once a cue ball gets dirty, or gets a big black
smudge on it, then all bets are off. Likewise, if enough dust and debris
get to the sensor, then again, all bets are off. Thirdly, there are
electronics involved. A pool table sitting in the middle of a bar would
need power to it, or long lasting batteries. This may or may not prove to
be a problem. After all, there are those funky blacklight pool tables,
right. They need power too.
RHA3
it is the colored "circle" cue balls that wont work on pay tables
Ninebal310
>From: "RHA3" RH...@alink.com
>Date: Wed, 27 October 1999 01:14 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7v7cba$j3u$1...@athena.netset.com>
>
>again Hank..you are wrong..the red "dot" will work on pay tables..
>it is the colored "circle" cue balls that wont work on pay tables
>
Red dot will work on some pay tables, not all. Red circle dont' work in any
that I know of. But why don't you tell us your opinion rather than jump my ass!
Are you still sore from the ass whippin' I gave you?
Hustlin' Hank
Steven M. Cohen
"specification" question is a mystery to me. Here's what I do know. Every
cue ball that I've ever used is 2 1/4" in diameter, except for an oversized
cue meant for coin-op tables that you can spot a mile away. The blue
circles, as you said, come with the Centennial set. Red Traingles come with
the Super Aramith set. The red "M"'s with the red band are Meucci's. All
cheap sets [under $75 or so] seem to come with blue dots, red circles or
plain cue balls. I don't know where red dots come from.
What I don't know is the weight difference between the balls. As far as
roll is concerned, cloth thickness, ball cleanliness and especially ball
polish are significant factors.
What I suspect is that some balls have uniform density and some have heavier
centers, but I can't verify this. The weights all seem about the same to
me, but roll and the ability to draw seems to change from ball to ball.
Then again, my instructor, the great womens champion of yesteryear Jackie
Walt, used to tell me that she draws the best with blue circles, so, lo and
behold, so do I. Am I just impressionable, or is there really a difference?
lfigueroa
to it. I recall a time when I was pleased to end up on the right half of
the table for position. Then I wanted a certain quadrant. Then a certain
area... a certain area with a certain angle... a certain area, with a
certain angle, at a certain distance from the object ball, and so on.
Eventually you get close to the width of a ball, or a smaller tolerance.
The size and weight of the cue ball becomes a big issue.
One night a friend and I, after discussing different cue ball behavior from
night to night at our pool hall, used a jeweler's scale to measure all the
cue balls in the pool room and found as much as a10% variance (different
manufacturers, age, wear). We duly reported these findings to the
proprietors and they were kind enough to replace all the cue balls.
Lou Figueroa
Steven M. Cohen <pamc...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:P63S3.528$f5.3...@server1.news.adelphia.net...
Bob Dzuricky
Circle Cueball. All three are brand new, untouched by leather or felt.
Weight (grams) Diameter
Blue Circle #1 167.9 1.2500
Blue Circle #2 167.6 1.2470
Red Circle 164.0 1.2425
(I hope this will come out legibly when posted.) Here is some raw data.
Now have fun with it.
Bob Dzuricky
Bob Dzuricky
167.6g = 5.9118 oz
164.0g = 5.7848 oz
Bob Dzuricky
Patrick Johnson
be about 2.25 rather than 1.25?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Don M.
<p...@21stCentury.net> wrote:
>Are these "Diameters" supposed to be in inches? If so, shouldn't they
>be about 2.25 rather than 1.25?
>
>Pat Johnson
>Chicago
Correct. Unless he was measuring the marbles they use in UK for pool.
Don >---
Bob Dzuricky
Bob Dzuricky
Don M. <do...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3819ba7b....@news.earthlink.net...
Ken Bour
Thank you for posting the facts and ending the speculation. A red circle
cueball is LIGHTER than the blue circle. You can see the effect of this
difference by shooting a couple of draw shots with both cueballs. The
lighter red circle ball will draw back more easily than the blue circle.
I have a ball measuring device that was given to me a year ago in Valley
Forge by Dennis Pisko (an RSB participant). There are two holes in a metal
plate drilled precisely to 2.25" + .003" and 2.25" - .003". With a brand
new set of Centennials, the balls will not go through either hole. When I
measure Centennials that are 10-12 years old (at the pool hall), the
variances are HUGE. Some balls will go though the smaller hole with plenty
of room to spare. I have seen many shocked faces as I proved that the
balls shrink over time, almost certainly due to the beating they take. I
can tell you that, at our pool hall, the lower numbered balls (solids) are
universally smaller than the stripes -- probably because 9-ball is the most
popular game in the house. Other then really old cueballs (they tend to get
replaced over time), the 1-Balls are the smallest.
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
Bob Dzuricky <dzc...@erie.net> wrote in message
news:rfeS3.5847$23.3...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com...
> I just weighed & measured (2) Centenial Blue Circle Cueballs & (1) Red
> Circle Cueball. All three are brand new, untouched by leather or felt.
>
> Weight (grams) Diameter
>
> Blue Circle #1 167.9 1.2500
> Blue Circle #2 167.6 1.2470
> Red Circle 164.0 1.2425
>
John (Kent, WA)
game to change that drastically. What I expect is happening is the bar box
cue ball is one of those that have been drilled and plugged. These plugged
cue balls are the worst thing to play with. Look at the cue ball and see if
you can find a circle about a 1/2 or 3/4 inch in diameter. These balls are
drilled out, weighted and then filled and finished. These balls do not have
their mass distributed evenly and depending on where this mass is relative
to the spin axis they will behave erratically.
Dennis Pisko <djp...@home.com> wrote in message
news:381CD94C...@home.com...
> Hey all,
> Its joe not dennis responding. Funny you guys should be talking about
> this now. Last Wednesday we shot apa 9ball on bar boxes (small cue
> balls). Prior to this I had not played on one in six months (thank god).
> Well my game is the best it has ever been lately and that night I
> sucked. I got beat 16-4 by a three with me ranked a five. I was recently
> told by a bca certified instructor that I should feel confident shooting
> as a six. After this demoralizing defeat I when home and practiced with
> three different cue balls. There is a noticeable difference in the way
> they play. It's not night and day but if you try to do anything really
> tough the difference will be apparent. Just when I had learned enough
> about the physics of the game to marvel that we can play it at all, I
> find it's more complex then that.
> Joe
Dennis Pisko
Fred Agnir
John (Kent, WA) wrote in message <381d...@news2.foxinternet.net>...
>The cue ball specs they are referring to in this thread shouldn't cause
your
>game to change that drastically. What I expect is happening is the bar box
>cue ball is one of those that have been drilled and plugged. These plugged
>cue balls are the worst thing to play with. Look at the cue ball and see
if
>you can find a circle about a 1/2 or 3/4 inch in diameter. These balls are
>drilled out, weighted and then filled and finished. These balls do not
have
>their mass distributed evenly and depending on where this mass is relative
>to the spin axis they will behave erratically.
There is absolutely no reason why anyone would "drill and plug" a cue ball.
Other than the incredible waste of material, there is the consideration of
labor and machine time. I assume that it is a myth that these balls are
"drilled and plugged". From a manufacturing point of view, I also assume
that they are cast with either a hole all the way through, or a hole to the
center. A hole all the way through makes centering the "weight" difficult.
Therefore, casting a blind hole to the center would be the preferred method,
IMO. The distance should be pretty precise. After dropping the "weight"
in, more material would be cast into the hole similar to casting the number
into the object balls. Then off to centerless grinding and post curing.
Further, however, is that adding a weight and post casting is an old method.
The newer method is to insert the weight and cast around it, leaving no
"plug vestige" of any kind. That's why you see many "weighted" balls with
no "circle" of any kind.
Regards,
Fred Agnir
John (Kent, WA)
many times taken these cue balls and they roll horribly compared to any
object balls rolled on the same table. If you ever play on a table with a
plugged cue ball try rolling it with the plug rolling end over end, and then
with the plug centered on the spin axis.
Fred Agnir <oha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7vk7h1$p9a$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...