smaller or bigger diameter shaft?
M@man
of players, the better ones play with a small dia. shaft however, i
know of a couple pro's that play in the area of 13.25mm.
What do you all think? i figure since most of you are from the east
coast or mid-west, where all the talent obviously is, you may have
some insight for me.
thanx..
Jack Stein
> I recently switched from a 12.4mm shaft down to a 11.7mm shaft. A lot
> of players, the better ones play with a small dia. shaft however, i
> know of a couple pro's that play in the area of 13.25mm.
> What do you all think?
A better question would be what do YOU think. You just went to a
smaller shaft, so what you think might have some weight.
I know people that like fat tips, and people that like skinny tips. I
like my 12.75 OB1 and Predator shafts. I don't like fat shafts 13 and
above. I don't own anything smaller than 12.75.
--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors ========> Government Motors!
http://jbstein.com
ernie
You might seriously consider the fact that literally thousands of
major U.S. tournaments in all pool disciplines during the last nearly
100 years have been won by pros and top amateurs who played with
shafts that didn't stray very far from 12.75 (about a half-inch)
diameter.
Exceptions like Mosconi who had very small hands preferred his to be
slightly thinner, but the overwhelming majority playing with the 12.75
apparent ideal (or quite close to that figure) should tell you
something.
This very brief discussion may also guide you somewhat:
http://www.seyberts.com/phpBB2/showthread.php?p=3488#post3488
Ernie
Ron Shepard
<055512cb-e32d-4dd9...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
ernie <ernesto-s...@usa.net> wrote:
> You might seriously consider the fact that literally thousands of
> major U.S. tournaments in all pool disciplines during the last nearly
> 100 years have been won by pros and top amateurs who played with
> shafts that didn't stray very far from 12.75 (about a half-inch)
> diameter.
I gathered statistics from the pros about 10 years ago on cue weight
and tip diameter and posted the results here in RSB. Here is the
summary:
Means 19.340 12.799
Standard Deviations 0.604 0.299
Min 18.000 12.000
Max 21.250 13.500
#values 84 83
I think if you do a google search you can find the entire list of
individual entries, along with several discussion threads related to
this topic.
Also, Pat Johnson had a shaft with a small-diameter tip made for his
cue, and he made several posts here in RSB discussing his
experiences with the change. This was in 2001 to 2002 I think. I
think he ended up playing with that shaft permanently.
It is sort of odd that billiard players with big balls, and snooker
players with small balls both seem to prefer small diameter tips (in
the 10 to 12 mm range), while pool players with the medium size
balls tend to play with larger tips (12 to 14 mm). Squirt
characteristics might have been related to these trends; before the
high-tech shafts were developed (e.g. Predator 1996), the only way
to have a low-squirt cue was with a small tip.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
M@man
I do like the change. However I have noticed when I play @ home on my
9'r I preferr my 12.25.
I like the action I get on a bar box with my 11.7 with a smoother
stroke and a lot less effort. I like force follow shots on the big
table when I can use it and it seems the small dia. Just can't hndle
it.. or my stroke is lacking to achieve it! Lol! I use a flat
laminated shaft for both dia.
Thanx for the input.
If you care to see how I'm doin, I'll be @ the BCA west coast
regionals in lincoln city, or. Just search my name... matt hiatt...
and give me hell while I'm there. Goot net on the cell.
Thanx again. I enjoy this site
ernie
stroke and a lot less effort. I like force follow shots on the big
table when I can use it and it seems the small dia. Just can't hndle
it.. or my stroke is lacking to achieve it!"
Many players speak of "force follow" when they are really talking
about a "power follow" action on the CB (the opposite action
counterpart to "power draw". Force follow originally meant a kind of
stun stroke, struck scant millimeters above center (depending on the
distance the CB must travel to the OB) that's commonly used in
Straight Pool. It requires a skillful finesse readily acheivable with
practice.
The CB is struck firmly and precisely floats a desired predetermined
inch, or several inches, past the OB after impact -- generally to
achieve a slight angle on the next shot for position or to secondarily
break the pack.
Anyway I'm sure you mean a sizzling follow travel of the CB (power
follow) for distance or cluster-impacting action, and the point I want
to make in regard to your perceived lack of that sizzle action with
your smaller diameter shaft is a solution I gleaned from a friend who
achieved dazzling power follow from exactly the same high cue ball
position that the rest of us were using without the same result as his
action.
I finally noticed how he acheived such an atypical result from the
same spot on the CB. He would go as high on the CB as CB as possible
for power follow (just as the rest of us would do), but the important
difference was that he'd routinely *elevate* the butt end of his cue
stick almost imperceptibly. He later told me that he gets *much* more
grab for his follow stroke that way. You might want to experiment
with that small change with your smaller diameter. Don't elevate too
much or you'll get a self-defeating small jumping action that actually
reduces the follow speed of the CB.
Ernie
John Black
26ac58...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, ernesto-s...@usa.net
says...
> I finally noticed how he acheived such an atypical result from the
> same spot on the CB. He would go as high on the CB as CB as possible
> for power follow (just as the rest of us would do), but the important
> difference was that he'd routinely *elevate* the butt end of his cue
> stick almost imperceptibly. He later told me that he gets *much* more
> grab for his follow stroke that way.
Interesting. I never would have thought to try this on a follow shot. Kind
of shooting down on the ball (slightly).
John Black
M@man
Actually Ernie, that is exactly the stroke i am talking about! The
only game i practice at home is straight pool! Force follow is a stun
shot that follows natural tangent line then spins the fuq forward!
the only time you should play "this" shot is in straight pool!
As far as stroking @ a slight angel downward on the cueball you have
to be care full of skipping the cueball to its destination. i prefer
a negative upward stroke on the cueball instead! yes, stroke below
center toward above center opposite side of CB!
If you know the dynamics of keeping your cue paralell to the bed of
the table, think of this as going beyond parallell! your tip should
be higher than the bed of table and the butt below!
2cents-----Matt
Ron Shepard
<31f57ecf-2332-4d2c...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
ernie <ernesto-s...@usa.net> wrote:
> He would go as high on the CB as CB as possible
> for power follow (just as the rest of us would do),
It is almost impossible to tell just by watching where someone actually
hits the cue ball, especially when there is elbow drop motion and wrist
twists and shoulder motion and other movements going on. You can't
trust where they line up on their practice strokes, there's too much
other stuff going on on their final stroke. If you want to know where
someone is really hitting the ball, you need to use one of the cue balls
with markings on it (or put some markings on the cue ball yourself with
a felt pen, or use a striped ball) and then look at the chalk spot on
the ball after the shot to see where the tip really hit the ball on the
stroke. Players, especially beginners, always tend to hit closer to the
center than they think they do, whether it is draw shots or follow
shots. This is "beginners poke syndrome", and it does take some
practice to overcome it, although it sounds like it should be a simple
process.
> but the important
> difference was that he'd routinely *elevate* the butt end of his cue
> stick almost imperceptibly.
I can't see how a small stick elevation could help with follow. Any
idea how this might help?
On a "normal" follow shot you don't really need to hit much, if any,
topspin on the cue ball. The cue ball rubs against the cloth as it
slides on the table, and that adds topspin to the cue ball until, at
some point on its way to the object ball, natural roll is achieved.
Natural roll is pretty much the maximum topspin that you can get with a
level (or near level) cue. But on a "force follow" shot, you are
shooting hard, possibly also with the cue ball fairly close to the
object ball (say a diamond or less) and the cue ball doesn't have time
pick up much additional topspin from the cloth friction before it hits
the object ball. So any topspin on the cue ball on a force follow shot
has to be put there honestly, with tip offset. When someone gets good
follow on a shot like this, this is how they do it, they really do hit
the shot honestly with a good tip offset.
As far as tip diameter, I don't think that has much to do with the
maximum amount of topspin (or draw) either. It's all about the tip-ball
contact point and how consistently the player can hit the right spot on
the cue ball with the right speed without miscuing.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
ernie
shot. Kind
of shooting down on the ball (slightly).
John Black"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try it John, and when you get an improved follow, report that, so Shep
can tell you that it's impossible or you really couldn't tell where
you contacted the CB.
Ernie
Ron Shepard
<e377228a-dc63-40b7...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
ernie <ernesto-s...@usa.net> wrote:
Well, whatever.
Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVXh3PVOE3UVXh3UaUb3kVOE3kVHP3kQfk2kMhO@
The goal is to pocket the object ball and force the cue ball to roll
back at least to the starting cue ball position. You need just enough
cut angle on the object ball to avoid the scratch. This is a
progressive drill. When you succeed, move both the object ball and the
cue ball farther from the target pocket; when you fail, move the cue
ball closer to the target pocket. I usually move the balls a half
diamond at a time. The cue ball should always start one diamond away
from the object ball. On this drill, you can move the cue ball all the
way back frozen to the end cushion. I usually keep score according to
the cue ball position. The position in the above diagram is 4, moving
toward the pocket a diamond would be 3, moving away from the pocket a
diamond would be 5, starting frozen to the end cushion would be 8.
After you shoot this a while, you can experiment with the elevated cue
technique, along with lots of other things that you hear about, such as
snapping your wrist during delivery, or a tight vs. loose grip, or you
can see if there is a difference in using a closed or open bridge. You
can also experiment with shaft tapers and tip diameters (just to keep
this post on topic). If you do this once a week or so over a long
period of time, and keep written records, you can follow the progress of
your improvements.
As described above, this is a drill for power shots. It doesn't matter
where exactly the cue ball stops rolling, as long as it makes it back to
the initial cue ball position it is a "success". You can modify this to
make it a position drill rather than a power shot drill. The goal is to
try to get the cue ball to stop right at the initial cue ball position.
For this kind of position drill, I generally call "success" something
like within a half-diamond away from the target spot, or within a
handspan, or whatever is quick and easy to measure.
The other shot that was mentioned, where the cue ball rolls just a short
distance forward from the object ball, is sometimes called a "stun
runthrough" or a "stun follow" or a "drag follow" or simply a "drag"
shot. That is also a good shot to practice.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
M@man
well when your right, your right. I tried that theroy of elevating
and shooting down on it....thanx ernie. :) pretty cool when u gain
new stroke.
Matt
bk4...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
>
And here is an even better one, IMO.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt3UBUR3Ubrp4kQFt4kBdP4kBEj4kDAX4kCbC3kBkf3kOiT3kbBU4kSYo4kSYo4kVSm@
The only way to achieve the CB path shown is with a, well I guess I
would call it a "pure" stroke. Most find that they can only get this
action with a very firm stroke. But with practice it can be
accomplished with a medium stroke also (though the CB won't travel as
far). Just what a "pure" stroke means I leave up to the techno-
types. I don't care. I know what it feels like. And when I'm
playing well, getting the CB into position is effortless, and I find
myself stroking softer and smoother. (There I go again)
Moving the CB to increase the cut angle increases the difficulty of
getting that curving action on the CB. The farther you go the more it
becomes a kind of trick shot and not something you'd use for position
play during a match. But it is still an excellent gauge of how well
you are stroking the ball.
It's important because while anyone can accomplish a stop shot with
even a "poor" stroke, a player needs to learn to stroke every single
shot "well" in order to reach their potential. When you are
delivering your best stroke for even the simplest shot, it's takes
zero additional effort to deliver that stroke for the difficult ones.
Bob
lfigueroa
to 12.75 for a few years. When I ordered my Gina, 14 years ago, I went
back to 13mm. But little by little I took them down just a bit.
Last month I had Ernie match all my shafts to the one playing shaft that
I had grown fondest of and that was at 12.85.
So I guess what all that means is to find what feels good and looks
right, tip to CB, to your peepers.
Lou Figueroa
lfigueroa
particularly inside, and watch that baby go :-)
Lou Figueroa
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
hasn't tried
the ascending cue
Ron Shepard
Ron Shepard <ron-s...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
> Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
>
> http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AVXh3PVOE3UVXh3UaUb3kVOE3kVHP3kQfk2kMhO@
>
> The goal is to pocket the object ball and force the cue ball to roll
> back at least to the starting cue ball position. You need just enough
> cut angle on the object ball to avoid the scratch. This is a
> progressive drill. When you succeed, move both the object ball and the
> cue ball farther from the target pocket; when you fail, move the cue
> ball closer to the target pocket. I usually move the balls a half
> diamond at a time. The cue ball should always start one diamond away
> from the object ball. On this drill, you can move the cue ball all the
> way back frozen to the end cushion. I usually keep score according to
> the cue ball position. The position in the above diagram is 4, moving
> toward the pocket a diamond would be 3, moving away from the pocket a
> diamond would be 5, starting frozen to the end cushion would be 8.
There was something else I wanted to say about this but I forgot. If
you start off with the cue ball closer to the object ball, say a
half-diamond distance rather than a diamond distance, then you will see
a few double-hit fouls occurring from time to time. What happens is
that the cue ball is basically spinning on the cloth, almost in place,
and the tip catches up with it on the followthrough and hits it a second
time. You can avoid this either by adding a little more cut angle to
the object ball or by shortening your followthrough. For a beginner
learning about force follow shots I would recommend the first approach.
Then after you understand how to achieve that, you can go back on work
on changing your followthrough, something that is necessary from time to
time, but is more of a specialty stroke. When you add a little angle,
then the cue ball moves an inch or so to the side after it hits the
object ball, and the tip doesn't hit it the second time.
On the other hand, if you set up the shot with two or three diamonds
distance to the object ball, then the other thing I mentioned starts to
happen. The cue ball has a chance to pick up some extra topspin as it
slides toward the object ball, masking to some extent any unintentional
closer-to-center hit you might make, and defeating the purpose of the
drill. The purpose of the drill is to be able to hit consistently, with
power, with a large tip offset, without miscuing. This is what Bob K.
called a "pure stroke", which is another term for a high spin/speed
ratio.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
John Black
she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> I can't see how a small stick elevation could help with follow. Any
> idea how this might help?
It might increase how high you can hit on the ball without miscuing. The
little downward angle adds some downward pressure between the tip, the ball
and the table giving extra friction allowing you to hit higher (than if they
cue was level) without miscuing. Just a theory.
John Black
ernie
The
little downward angle adds some downward pressure between the tip, the
ball
and the table giving extra friction allowing you to hit higher (than
if the
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've got it, John.
Years ago, before rapid-action electronic toys and gadgets, it was
common to see kids playing by rolling wooden hoops with a stick and
sometimes just with their hand.
They'd run alongside the hoop, striking the hoop just slightly in
advance of the top-most point of the hoop's diameter with an almost
horizontal swinging motion that was roughly about 90 percent forward,
yet ten percent downward for frictive grab.
The same mechanics are at work with the slight butt elevation that
results in the exact interplay of physical forces you've aptly
visualized and expressed above, and which enabled my friend to produce
the sizzling "power follow" he was known for.
Ernie
Ron Shepard
<28019eeb-67c0-476f...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
ernie <ernesto-s...@usa.net> wrote:
I don't know. Try the progressive drill both ways, "level" and
intentionally elevated, to see if it makes a difference. I put "level"
in quotes here because you usually can't really stroke with a level cue,
the butt must be elevated at least enough to clear the rail and to keep
your knuckles from rubbing on the cloth.
Fred Agnir had a theory a while back about people who elevate a little
for normal draw shots. His idea is that when they don't elevate, they
often drop their elbow, changing the tip contact point and losing
accuracy. But when they elevate a little, they concentrate on holding
their elbow still, which then lets them be more accurate with the tip
contact point. Maybe the same thing is happening here for the topspin
shots, these people shoot with a little elevation in order to trick
themselves into holding their elbow still during the stroke (or at least
the part of the stroke before the tip hits the ball). If this is the
case, then I would recommend the simpler approach, just practice
stroking without dropping your elbow. Two wrongs usually don't make a
right. Especially later, in this case, when you combine force follow
with sidespin, that extra stick elevation comes back to haunt you (with
swerve).
Anyway, what is important is how the shot actually works for you. As I
say above, do the drill both ways so that you can measure your results.
Also, don't worry so much about miscues on these kinds of learning
exercises. You eventually need to practice the technique enough so that
you don't miscue, but at first don't worry so much about it. You need
to learn how to hit high on the cue ball, so focus on that first. The
miscues will disappear with the consistency that comes from practice and
as your stroke improves. This goes for both topspin and draw shots.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
nhoop
pretty well.
The result was an improvement in sighting, but no improvement in draw shots.
Then I thought of the advertising for the expensive laminated shafts and the
big deal with then is more stiffness. So it seems to me that making a shaft
thinner and more flexible is not a good idea if you generally rely on a lot
of english. I've gone back to my old Predator shafts and like how the work.
Nat.
"M@man" <barbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a7087fa6-27cd-4647...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
Jack Stein
> I bought some cheapy shafts on eBay and managed to grind some of them down
> pretty well.
>
> The result was an improvement in sighting, but no improvement in draw shots.
> Then I thought of the advertising for the expensive laminated shafts and the
> big deal with then is more stiffness.
OB1 shafts are not stiff. Whippy would be a better description.
Predator is stiffer. They both play consistently at my speed...
So it seems to me that making a shaft
> thinner and more flexible is not a good idea if you generally rely on a lot
> of english. I've gone back to my old Predator shafts and like how the work.
>
> Nat.
>
> "M@man" <barbo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a7087fa6-27cd-4647...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> I recently switched from a 12.4mm shaft down to a 11.7mm shaft. A lot
>> of players, the better ones play with a small dia. shaft however, i
>> know of a couple pro's that play in the area of 13.25mm.
>>
>> What do you all think? i figure since most of you are from the east
>> coast or mid-west, where all the talent obviously is, you may have
>> some insight for me.
>>
>> thanx..
>
>
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
John Black
@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bk4...@hotmail.com says...
> On Oct 18, 11:06 pm, Ron Shepard <ron-shep...@NOSPAM.comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
> >
>
> And here is an even better one, IMO.
> http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt3UBUR3Ubrp4kQFt4kBdP4kBEj4kDAX4kCbC3kBkf3kOiT3kbBU4kSYo4kSYo4kVSm@
>
> The only way to achieve the CB path shown is with a, well I guess I
> would call it a "pure" stroke.
I can't do it Bob. That's a crazy looking path.
John Black
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
What does it look like when you shoot it?
Here is another version of the same kind of force follow shot.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AbUN4Iadd1PSFW1UbUM1UdxA1kSFW1kaGc1kbtm1kaXE
1kVGp4kYvK@
This is one of the standard artistic pool shots that you see often
on the trick shot shows on TV.
Bob's version is more like a shot you would see in one-pocket. Say
you need two to win from this position.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4BIGc4PQFt3UBUR3Ubrp4kQFt4kBdP4kBlj4kEut
4kAFi3kakn4kbJr@
Normally you would draw back from the 1-ball to the 2-ball, but when
the 2-ball is in the path of the cue ball, you would do the force
follow instead to get back for position.
Here is another loopy topspin shot.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYnQ3BCKQ3CGrK4DCKY3EAVa4FFcx4GJlb4HCJy4Iald
4PBpQ3UYnQ3Ubrp4kBpQ3kYex3kaso3kRjl3kDWd4kKIv4kXpP2uBnN@
This one needs the right sidespin also to get the cue ball to come
off of the first cushion the right way. On slick cloth you can get
the cue ball out past the foot spot and still pocket the 9-ball.
Another shot similar to this is the Jimmy Moore draw shot.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATTC4BbUf1Iada4PXbJ4UTTC3Ubrp4kXbJ4kVWs4kbeT
4kWma4kVgH1kaUI@
This is a draw shot rather than a force follow shot, but the cue
ball action is about the same. It sort of looks like the 2-ball
would block the cue ball, but it doesn't because of the looping
action of the cue ball.
I personally find all of the above follow shots easier to do than
the Jimmy Moore draw shot. I've wondered why. It might be because
the cue ball tends to hop a little more on the draw shots than on
the follow shots due to the stick elevation (another reason to learn
how to shoot these shots with a level cue, not with extra
elevation), and too much hop changes the final cue ball path too
much to hit the 9-ball. This is another shot that you see often in
the artistic pool competitions.
These are all good shots to practice from time to time, but as far
as beginners learning how to shoot force follow shots, I still
recommend the progressive drill that I posted originally. In the
progressive drill, the shot difficulty tracks along with the skill
of the shooter. These other shots look a little fancier, but they
don't give you the kind of feedback that a progressive drill gives
you. IMO, of course.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
John Black
she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> In article <MPG.254ed30ec...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <87528fc3-7751-4e5a-93d6-1e6b20c60660
> > @m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bk4...@hotmail.com says...
> > > On Oct 18, 11:06 pm, Ron Shepard <ron-shep...@NOSPAM.comcast.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
> > > >
> > >
> > > And here is an even better one, IMO.
> > > http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt3UBUR3Ubrp4kQFt4kBdP4kBEj4kDAX4kCbC3kBkf3k
> > > OiT3kbBU4kSYo4kSYo4kVSm@
> > >
> > > The only way to achieve the CB path shown is with a, well I guess I
> > > would call it a "pure" stroke.
> >
> > I can't do it Bob. That's a crazy looking path.
>
> What does it look like when you shoot it?
Something like this:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt4kQFt4kBdO3kMvk3kbBt4kIDp@
I.e. always hits the short rail first. Thanks for posting a list of other
shots I can't do. :-) Do you have to hit these things at light speed?
John Black
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
> Something like this:
>
> http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt4kQFt4kBdO3kMvk3kbBt4kIDp@
I'd guess that your shot speed is off. The shot speed on this shot is
about the same as a 5 or 6 on the progressive drill I posted originally.
Can you do a 5 or 6 on that drill?
> I.e. always hits the short rail first. Thanks for posting a list of other
> shots I can't do. :-) Do you have to hit these things at light speed?
No a 5 or 6 on the progressive isn't really "light speed", but its not a
soft shot either. The shot you describe looks sort of like a 3 or 4 (in
progressive drill units) to me.
None of the topspin shots are particularly difficult. A beginner might
not be able to hit them consistently, but anyone should be able to hit
them every so often. You need to figure out how full to hit the object
ball too, so it isn't all just shot speed and topspin. The fuller you
hit the object ball, the higher the spin/speed ratio left on the cue
ball, right? The draw shot is harder, as I said before; that shot isn't
possible for me on some tables. However, I think someone who shoots it
a lot, like Mike Massey or Tom Rossman in their exhibitions, can hit it
on just about any legit and reasonable equipment. I included it because
it uses a cushion to produce the same loopy kind of cue ball motion as
the topspin shots.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
bk4...@hotmail.com
> In article <ron-shepard-C38CD2.12194726102...@forte.easynews.com>, ron-
> shep...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.254ed30ec2c299c8989...@news.eternal-september.org>,> > > @m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, bk42...@hotmail.com says...
> > > > On Oct 18, 11:06 pm, Ron Shepard <ron-shep...@NOSPAM.comcast.net>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Here is a good drill for practicing force follow shots.
>
> > > > And here is an even better one, IMO.
> > > > OiT3kbBU4kSYo4kSYo4kVSm@
>
> > > > The only way to achieve the CB path shown is with a, well I guess I
> > > > would call it a "pure" stroke.
>
> > > I can't do it Bob. That's a crazy looking path.
>
> > What does it look like when you shoot it?
>
> Something like this:
>
> http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ABUR4PQFt4kQFt4kBdO3kMvk3kbBt4kIDp@
>
> I.e. always hits the short rail first. Thanks for posting a list of other
> shots I can't do. :-) Do you have to hit these things at light speed?
>
> John Black
Put the OB 1/4 inch off the rail and give yourself a 20 or so degree
cut angle. Shooting with straight high at soft-medium speed will send
the cue ball along a straight-ish path up-table. Now shoot very
firmly with a long, smooth stroke. It may take quite a bit of
practice to get a feel for it, but the CB can be made to curve into
the long rail at a 90 degree(ish) angle. The curve is easier the
closer the OB is to the rail. If the shot is too straight the CB will
just follow through the OB which I suspect is what you were achieving.
I really like the one-pocket example of this technique that Ron
posted. The need for this shot can come up in other games quite often
as well. Though I'm less interested in this than the idea of learning
to stroke the ball really well every shot. Anybody can shoot a simple
stop shot, but study Buddy Hall or Ralf Soquet shooting a long stop
shot and you'll see that they don't really seem to hit it hard enough,
or as hard as so many would. That's because they are exemplify the
ideal of a pure stroke on every shot, which ultimately simplifies the
game for them.
Bob Keller
John Black
@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, bk4...@hotmail.com says...
> Put the OB 1/4 inch off the rail and give yourself a 20 or so degree
> cut angle. Shooting with straight high at soft-medium speed will send
> the cue ball along a straight-ish path up-table. Now shoot very
> firmly with a long, smooth stroke. It may take quite a bit of
> practice to get a feel for it, but the CB can be made to curve into
> the long rail at a 90 degree(ish) angle. The curve is easier the
> closer the OB is to the rail. If the shot is too straight the CB will
> just follow through the OB which I suspect is what you were achieving.
Thanks Bob, yes two things wrong, I didn't have the OB close enough to the
rail and based on what I thought I saw in the picture, the cut angle was
less than 20 degrees.
John Black
bk4...@hotmail.com
I didn't have the OB close enough to the
> rail and based on what I thought I saw in the picture, the cut angle was
> less than 20 degrees.
This is one of the really weird things about pool. The exact same
shot will look very different diagrammed (looking straight down from
above), versus from a spectator's seat, versus from behind the shot,
versus from down on the shot. And it's a two-dimensional game!
(well, most of the time!)
Bob Keller