Jeanette Lee strikes a new Low
P Street
I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
"Let's improve the Image of Pool"
By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
This hardly takes pool up a notch.
What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
spread eagle on a pool ball?
or
The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
Think maybe the WPBA will issue a fine for her seductive ads?
She should be ashamed. This hardly improves anything but her
income.
What's next The Jeanette Lee swimsuit signature cue?
Sheesh
P Street
Gary Robinson
On 18 Jun 1998 03:05:54 GMT, LFE...@prodigy.com (P Street) wrote:
>I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
>"Let's improve the Image of Pool"
>By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
>But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
>for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>
>This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>
<snip>
Sheesh, lighten up.
This is no different from any other part of our society.
She's a beautiful lady and a great player.
Why can't she have a little fun?
Why is it some people try to look only at the negative side of things.
'Somewhere someone is having too much fun and we have to put a stop to
it!'
I seriously doubt Ms. Lee's posing in the adds will hurt pool.
"Cleaning up" its appeal?
Jeanette looks might clean to me!
Always exhibits class IMHO.
Shut up and shoot pool.
Smorgass Bored
WHAT? Jeanette Lee "The Black Widow" after whom I named my Barbarachnid
is posing in a risque manner in Billiards Digest...... I'm Irate.
BTW, may this been seen online? Well then, where do I subscribe?
shame,shame,shame,
Doug W.
~>*) Big Fish EAT Little Fish (*<~
Umbra99
If the ad was as stated, I agree that this
takes pool further in a direction that it
should be trying to avoid.
"Show me the money", Jeanette ??
Evan
Deno J. Andrews
P Street wrote:
>
> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
I don't know if I agree with you stating it will hurt the game. Those
ads surely hurt her image, and changes the face of her fans.. I think
people will just embrace the other players, instead of just giving up on
the WPBA. She will always have fans (who want to look at her), but the
better players will maintain a higher fan base. I hope she is getting
paid alot of money, because I would be sad if she was destroying her
image for a little money. At least for a lot of money she could go and
do something else...so I wouldn't care as much.
Deno
kar...@teamnet.net
Maybe I'm de-sensitized or something, but the "sleaziness"
of these ads wasn't something that I noticed at all. Being
a woman, I would think that I would be offended by such things
before a man was, but I wasn't. She wasn't distastfully or
scantily dressed, as I recall. Aren't you making a bigger
deal out of this than it is?
Karla Chorny
In article <6ma06i$47d0$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
LFE...@prodigy.com (P Street) wrote:
>
> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>
> This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>
> What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
> spread eagle on a pool ball?
> or
> The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
>
> Think maybe the WPBA will issue a fine for her seductive ads?
>
> She should be ashamed. This hardly improves anything but her
> income.
>
> What's next The Jeanette Lee swimsuit signature cue?
>
> Sheesh
>
> P Street
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Doug Gilliam
Original reply deleted ...
I'm just replying to this article to give my opinion.
I haven't seen this picture'(s) but I don't need to see them to provide
my opinion. I guarantee you that however she is dressed, or undressed
for that matter, won't hurt my opinion of her. I have never been
offended yet by a beautiful woman removing part, or all, of her clothes.
I guess it boils down to whether or not a person thinks an unclothed or
partially clothed body is something bad or dirty or whatever. My
experience has been that the same people who think there is something
dirty about an unclothed body are the same people who think there is
something dirty or evil about sex.
Everyone has a right to feel however they want about these types of
things so I don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about it.
I'm sure there are people who will be offended by this and lose respect
for her and I'm sure there are others who won't be offended ... count me
as one of the latter.
Every time I see a beautiful woman (no matter how they are dressed or
undressed), it makes my day just a little bit better. If someone ever
comes up with anything more beautiful than a beautiful woman, let me
know about it and I will invest heavily in whatever it is.
Jeanette, if you've got it and you want to flaunt it, go right ahead ...
it won't bother me even a little bit. As a matter of fact, if I happen
to see you it will make my day a bit better :-).
JMO
Doug Gilliam
x6184
Laura Friedman
Doug Gilliam wrote:
>
> Every time I see a beautiful woman (no matter how they are dressed or
> undressed), it makes my day just a little bit better. If someone ever
> comes up with anything more beautiful than a beautiful woman, let me
> know about it and I will invest heavily in whatever it is.
Laura
=^.^=
kar...@teamnet.net wrote:
>Maybe I'm de-sensitized or something, but the "sleaziness"
>of these ads wasn't something that I noticed at all. Being
>a woman, I would think that I would be offended by such things
>before a man was, but I wasn't. She wasn't distastfully or
>scantily dressed, as I recall. Aren't you making a bigger
>deal out of this than it is?
I haven't seen the ads, but based only on the descriptions that have
been provided here, I would not think highly of them. Those described
poses are for money only, not for pool.
Bev =^.^= clou...@NOSPAMprimenet.com
**To reply directly, remove NOSPAM from address**
New URL - http://www.cloudbow.com/pool/
RSB Rogues Gallery - http://www.bayside.net/users/cbsites/rsb/
Michael Page
In article <35894C...@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>,
doug.g...@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM wrote:
>
> Original reply deleted ...
>
> I'm just replying to this article to give my opinion.
>
> I haven't seen this picture'(s) but I don't need to see them to provide
> my opinion. I guarantee you that however she is dressed, or undressed
> for that matter, won't hurt my opinion of her. I have never been
> offended yet by a beautiful woman removing part, or all, of her clothes.
>
> I guess it boils down to whether or not a person thinks an unclothed or
> partially clothed body is something bad or dirty or whatever.
I don't think it boils down to this at all. It's possible to agree with you
wholeheartedly about nudity, etc. and still see provative ads (I haven't seen
them either) as a detriment to pool/womens'pool. A barrier women face in
pool, politics, the business world, etc. is that the association with
physical appearance is rarely far from the surface. Look at the need to
comment on the clothing/hair styles of prominent women in politics. Look at
the relative availability of good roles for less-attractive female versus
less-attractive male actors. Look at how closely the self esteem of teenage
girls is connected to their physical image of themselves.
Jeanette Lee is attractive. She knows it and she's proud of it. That's fine.
I have nothing against her personally. Still, I think its a shame that this
overblown association of women with physical appearance is reinforced by her
behavior. I would prefer to point to the TV screen and tell my 13-year-old
daughter that that person is well known and admired because she can string x
number of racks together when the chips are down.
Men are judged by their pool playing, their politics, their courage, their
ideas, their compassion, their honesty. Women are judged by these things too,
but too often these criteria play second fiddle to physical appearance, or at
least physical appearance plays a disproportionate role....
mike page
fargo
Smorgass Bored
Laura F. wrote: How about a handsome man ?
Laura,
I get your point and I agree with you... I've been sending pictures of
myself scantily clad (in speedos) to Billiard Digest for months and
haven't heard squat in return. You think that I might not be Cover
material? Maybe if I did a split on top of the pool table? I'll run this
idea past the owners of Planet 9-Ball and see how they feel about it....
All that I have on as I type this is a pool glove. Wait a
minute,that's not a glove,it's hair in my palms. Anybody got a razor (or
some Nair)? yeehaaaaa,
Deno J. Andrews
Doug Gilliam wrote:>
> I haven't seen this picture'(s) but I don't need to see them to provide
> my opinion. I guarantee you that however she is dressed, or undressed
> for that matter, won't hurt my opinion of her. I have never been
> offended yet by a beautiful woman removing part, or all, of her clothes.
It's not a question of dressed or undressed. The point was that it is
not good for the image of both herself and PROFESSIONAL pocket
billiards.
> I guess it boils down to whether or not a person thinks an unclothed or
> partially clothed body is something bad or dirty or whatever. My
> experience has been that the same people who think there is something
> dirty about an unclothed body are the same people who think there is
> something dirty or evil about sex.
Again, their is nothing wrong with beautifull people showing body, as
long as it is done in the right place. As a hobby photographer, I
appreciate figure studies of people as art. I don't think those photos
of her are considered fashion, figure, or even artistic photographs.
The main theme to the photo was simple...make people like you think they
can get some with Jeanette Lee. Now I am not saying these kind of
photos should not be taken...just that they be placed in a more suitable
situation like on the cover of a 900-number catalog.
> Everyone has a right to feel however they want about these types of
> things so I don't think there is a right or wrong way to feel about it.
> I'm sure there are people who will be offended by this and lose respect
> for her and I'm sure there are others who won't be offended ... count me
> as one of the latter.
I respect your opinion. Let me just ask one thing...when you look at
these photos...what do you say to yourself..."Gee she can really play
pool" or "wow...I would really like to ^%^%^$%$#@@(* her"? I think
niether one. But the point is, she should be trying to promote herself
as a good player. Not as a model who likes to pose with cues and cases
and by tables. There are far more qualified models out there for those
jobs.
So I think there is a place for everything. And those photos do not
belong in a magazine promoting equipment or billiards. They are missing
an element of class, which is one of the most important aspects in
trying to erase the negative stigma from the pool largess.
Thanks to her, the industry has taken a small step backwards. And some
women continue to ignore the fact that the more they cater to mens
desires, the less respect they will get from them in the long run. You
said it yourself..."Every time I see a beautiful woman (no matter how
they are dressed or undressed), it makes my day just a little bit
better." Here you prove the most important thing, to you, about a woman
is that she is beautiful. Glass ceiling attitude...get the picture?
Deno
Tom Bellhouse
P Street wrote:
> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>
> This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>
> What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
> spread eagle on a pool ball?
> or
> The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
>
>
Say, if you're through looking at that sleazy magazine, would you pass
it over here, please? My Viagra is kicking in...
Tom Bellhouse
Bob Jewett
Since there are several pictures, I'd like to know how people feel about
each one. I find it remarkable that people have offered opinions here
without having seen any of the pictures. Oh, well, this is Usenet....
So, please cut out the form below and insert your opinions, if you have
seen the ads. Perhaps other magazines have the ads as well, so I will
include a brief description.
Bob Jewett
--- cut here, delete the part above, and insert comments below ---
My opinions about the Jeanette Lee ads in Billiards Digest, June 1998:
Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
Gary Robinson
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:10:32 GMT, kar...@teamnet.net wrote:
>Maybe I'm de-sensitized or something, but the "sleaziness"
>of these ads wasn't something that I noticed at all. Being
>a woman, I would think that I would be offended by such things
>before a man was, but I wasn't. She wasn't distastfully or
>scantily dressed, as I recall. Aren't you making a bigger
>deal out of this than it is?
>
>Karla Chorny
>
>
hell yes he is.
Robert W. Johnson
I've seen them all, and think they are tastefully done. First of all,
Jeanette Lee has nothing to prove to anyone, as either a truly remarkable
pro player, or as a truly beautiful woman. I wouldn't care if she posed
nude for Playboy, (in fact that would be the first issue I would purchase in
about 10 years!), that wouldn't change the fact that she can shoot circles
around 99.99% of all players out there. I feel the same way about Ewa,
Allison, or any of the other WPBA Pros. They do about 500 times better at
promoting this sport than any of the assholes playing on the men's tours.
Leave 'em alone if you can't enjoy it! C'mon women RSB'rs, defend
Jeanette's right to do whatever she wants! Bob
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co., beta ID 212564
Home of the World Champion Denver Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Bob Jewett wrote in message ...
8-BallR
<snip>
>If someone ever comes up with anything more beautiful than a >beautiful
woman, let me know about it and I will invest heavily in >whatever it is.
I know of something... a pool cue. A pool table. Oh baby, I just visited
the X-Rated pool cue site, and boy, I'm a bit uh, excited. Uh, I gotta go.
-- 8-BallR
dwin...@MNIC.net
<~ Big fish may eat little fish, buy MY fish eat Doug ~>
P Street
This is no different from any other part of our society.
>She's a beautiful lady and a great player.
But's that not the point! This does not emphasize her playing ability.
It emphasizes her sex appeal. What does this have to do with ability and
Imperial Billiards? Get your head out of the fog!
>I seriously doubt Ms. Lee's posing in the adds will hurt pool.
>"Cleaning up" its appeal?
>
Pool players are the first to say pools image needs a tune up. Read any
articles lately, or are you just one of those "picture folks"?
>Shut up and shoot pool.
>
Sounds like you got a real problem.. ever played against a woman?
I bet you always win, or at least that's the way the story goes....
P Street
=^.^=
"The Baron" <michae...@alcatel.NOSPAM.com.au> wrote:
Bev said:
>> I haven't seen the ads, but based only on the descriptions that have
>> been provided here, I would not think highly of them. Those described
>> poses are for money only, not for pool.
Baron said:
>This is dangerous thinking almost unbelievable how can you possibly condem
>something you admit you have never seen!!! You have based your opinion on
>someone elses opinion which happened to be critical. There were plenty of
>other opinions which thought the adds were great. Male and Female athletes
>from all sports as well as movie stars and all sorts of people pose for
>adds. I think you will find that pictures of Janette Lee will only enhance
>the image of pool to a wider audience. Would you critisize a picture of
>Michael Jordan sitting on a basketball. I think not.
>
>ps i haven't seen the pictures either so i will not say if they are good or
>bad
I'm entitled to my opinion regardless of what it is based on. Heck, I
can make up an opinion without basing it on anything except my
imagination! However, I did not base my opinion on someone else's
opinion, I based it on a description of the photo. If that person lied
in his or her description, then I reserve the right to re-evaluate my
opinion.
I don't give a rat's behind what Michael Jordan does. I have no
interest in basketball. I do, however, have an interest in billiards.
p.s. You seem to have no trouble criticizing other people's opinions.
Is that not also forming an opinion based on an opinion?
=^.^=
jew...@netcom.com (Bob Jewett) wrote:
>Since there are several pictures, I'd like to know how people feel about
>each one. I find it remarkable that people have offered opinions here
>without having seen any of the pictures. Oh, well, this is Usenet....
Precisely, Bob. This is Usenet. All of us form and share opinions on
the words other people write everyday. Joe Shooter may describe to us
a situation he faced in a 9-ball tournament and ask our opinions. Many
of us give our opinions based on Joe's description of the situation.
None of us actually *witnessed* the situation first hand. No one finds
the opinion-giving remarkable. How is this different? Someone
describes on the newsgroup what they see in a magazine before them and
asks our opinions. We give those opinions. No difference.
Ed Mercier
I've seen the pictures. I admit I thought they were a little out of place,
however I wouldn't call them offensive, crude or anything like that.
I asked a question in a previous post about what the women were selling, and
was it really pool? Jeanette Lee is the perfect example of a player who has
emphasized her sex appeal ever since she came on the pool scene. It's not just
her, it seems to me that sex appeal is one of the things the WPBA is
intentionally emphasizing. Once you get past the top 4 or 5 women, what does
it take to get sponsored in this game? The ability to run racks or the ability
to look good in an advertisement?
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, I just think this example is a
continuation of a trend.
The Baron wrote:
> > I haven't seen the ads, but based only on the descriptions that have
> > been provided here, I would not think highly of them. Those described
> > poses are for money only, not for pool.
>
Tony Cerqua
Well if you use this news group as a measurement, then the
advertisers got just what they paid for. After reading all these
messages (is anyone out there STILL reading this) I know where
I'm turning to first when I get the July issue! Not to look at
allegedly sexy pictures, but to see what all the fuss is about.
Companies advertise to get our attention and they have
accomplished that very well. Some might be offended, but it has
only brought attention to the ads. My guess is that Taco Bell is
thrilled with the fact that their "chihuahua ads" brought some
protest. It made the news a bunch of time. They like that.
P Street wrote:
> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>
> This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>
> What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
> spread eagle on a pool ball?
> or
> The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
>
Gary Robinson
I'm not one to usually get into these flame wars but.....
On 18 Jun 1998 22:42:10 GMT, LFE...@prodigy.com (P Street) wrote:
>This is no different from any other part of our society.
>>She's a beautiful lady and a great player.
>
>But's that not the point! This does not emphasize her playing ability.
>It emphasizes her sex appeal. What does this have to do with ability and
>Imperial Billiards? Get your head out of the fog!
Please read the first part of the sentence you refer to:
I said "She'a a beautiful lady" AS WELL AS "a great player."
I think her playing ability speaks for itself.
Why can't we ALSO enjoy her sex appeal?
How many adds, IN ALMOST EVERY MAGAZINE, highlites Michael Jordan's
sex appeal? I can not count the number of times I've see his image
displayed in very dramatic and sexy adds in the past week alone (as
every week, in or out of season, all year long).
And, it has done nothing to hurt the NBA. On the contrary, without MJ,
where would the NBA be now? And though he is probably the best that
has ever played the game, it doesnt hurt his image that he is also a
handsome, sexy man. Pool needs superstars too, and like the major
sports, the images of the athletes are not produced soley from thier
actions on the playing field.
>
>>I seriously doubt Ms. Lee's posing in the adds will hurt pool.
>>"Cleaning up" its appeal?
>>
>Pool players are the first to say pools image needs a tune up. Read any
>articles lately, or are you just one of those "picture folks"?
>
I agree that most of the Billiard rags arent great literature.
They could use cleaning up as far as the content goes.
And, yes, I read quite a bit, even in those big ole books that don't
even have any pictures!
I am just not offended by Jeanette's posing that highlites her
sex appeal.
>>Shut up and shoot pool.
>>
>Sounds like you got a real problem.. ever played against a woman?
>I bet you always win, or at least that's the way the story goes....
>
So now at the end of this and after this jab, I find myself being
attacked, for liking a female's sex appeal, but yet as you imply, I
may actually have some kind of "real problem" with women??!!
To answer your question, yes I have played women in pool, some have
won their share, some have not. No different than my record against
any other average pool player of my ability. I am not a great player,
but I enjoy the game regardless of who my opponent is. Although, I
will admit that its nice to play against beautiful ladies. Being male,
I enjoy the company of beautiful women very much.
I'm not sure how Jeanette posing in the magazine applies to your last
jab but I hope I have answered in a way that leaves no doubt to my
position:
Live and let live, try to look at the good in things as well, thats
all I'm saying. This issue is really getting out of hand here.
Its my oppinion that this will in no way hurt pool.
Now, Im going to shut up and shoot pool, I have a tournament in about
50 mins.
Flame off.
Bradley E. Robertson
Bob Jewett wrote
> Since there are several pictures, I'd like to know how people feel about
> each one.
>
>
>Jeanette Lee ads in Billiards Digest, June 1998:
Bob-
June issue? Must be July.
I know we are a little slow and behind the times up here on the Island but
how are you guys getting BD's July issue before me?
I saw Jeanette in a photo layout in "Swing" mag this winter and she looked
great!! And Sexy. Could sell a lot of cues.
Brad
The Baron
Bob Jewett
Bradley E. Robertson (br...@whidbey.com) wrote:
: Bob Jewett wrote ...
: >Jeanette Lee ads in Billiards Digest, June 1998:
: Bob- June issue? Must be July.
My typo. It is the very thick Trade Show issue. They give away
thousands of their July issue at the Trade Show, as do many of the
pool mags.
: I know we are a little slow and behind the times up here on the Island
: but how are you guys getting BD's July issue before me?
Mine is mailed first class with a check for $75 enclosed. How is yours
sent?
I failed to post my opinions of the pictures:
Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
Nice style, very classy. Nit-pickers might complain that she is
partly sitting on the cushion.
Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
Jeanette is less attractive when scowling like that, but I don't
find the picture at all offensive. Anyone else?
Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
I suppose the body position might bother some, but I thought the
ad was well designed and I did not find it offensive.
Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
Reading the ad copy along with viewing the image, I think the ad is
rather amusing. Some men may find it offensive, if they get as far
as reading the text. (How did they make balls that large? Is this
the first in a series from Aramith?)
How about the Brunswick ad on page 93? (Ewa Laurance)
How about the ad the Italian slate people run with that white marble
statue of Earl Strickland? (Not in the July BD issue, though.)
Bob Jewett
Michael Page
In article <jewettEu...@netcom.com>,
jew...@netcom.com (Bob Jewett) wrote:
>
> Since there are several pictures, I'd like to know how people feel about
> without having seen any of the pictures. Oh, well, this is Usenet....
Opinions of whether THESE ads are tasteful or not, provocative or not? I
agree. But those offering opinions about whether provocative, sexy ads in
general by women pros help or harm pool's image don't need to see these
pictures to have valid opinions.
>
> So, please cut out the form below and insert your opinions, if you have
> seen the ads. Perhaps other magazines have the ads as well, so I will
> include a brief description.
>
> Bob Jewett
>
> --- cut here, delete the part above, and insert comments below ---
>
> My opinions about the Jeanette Lee ads in Billiards Digest, June 1998:
>
> Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
>
> Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
>
> Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
>
> Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
>
I think subtle advertising on rsb is ok, btw.
Bradley E. Robertson
Bob Jewett wrote ...
> Bradley E. Robertson wrote...
> : I know we are a little slow and behind the times up here on the Island
> : but how are you guys getting BD's July issue before me?
>
> Mine is mailed first class with a check for $75 enclosed. How is yours
> sent?
By ferry. And by the way I'll be asking for a raise!!
Brad
LMoss18701
>From: Smorga...@webtv.net (Smorgass Bored)
> All that I have on as I type this is a pool glove.
doug<
i do not know what the dress code will be at the rsb tournament, but "JUST A
GLOVE" is fine with me. do not imagine laura and becky will mind either!!!
linda moss
David Miller
Pardon me but IMO the people you should be attacking here are the
advertisers and not the model. I seriously doubt that Jeanette Lee had
anything to do with styling the photos, that would have been the ad
agency and the photographer they used. If you want to debate the poor
taste of the manufacturers & how they are degrading the sport we all
love so much fine but I think in this case the guns are pointed in the
wrong direction.
Dave Miller
Gary Ives
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 16:12:07 -0700, Tom Bellhouse
<alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> wrote:
>
>
>P Street wrote:
>
>> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
>> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
>> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>>
>> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
>> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>>
>> This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>>
>> What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
>> spread eagle on a pool ball?
>> or
>> The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
>>
>>
>
>Say, if you're through looking at that sleazy magazine, would you pass
>it over here, please? My Viagra is kicking in...
>
>Tom Bellhouse
>
>
Yok!! Good one Tom!
Gary
Gary Robinson
On 18 Jun 1998 22:26:00 -0700, clou...@NOSPAMprimenet.com (=^.^=)
wrote:
>p.s. You seem to have no trouble criticizing other people's opinions.
>Is that not also forming an opinion based on an opinion?
>
In my opinion, yes.
BUT he still right, right? :)
The Baron
> Bev said:
> >> I haven't seen the ads, but based only on the descriptions that have
> >> been provided here, I would not think highly of them. Those described
> >> poses are for money only, not for pool.
>
> Baron said:
> >This is dangerous thinking almost unbelievable how can you possibly
condem
> >something you admit you have never seen!!! You have based your opinion
on
> >someone elses opinion which happened to be critical. There were plenty
of
> >other opinions which thought the adds were great. Male and Female
athletes
> >from all sports as well as movie stars and all sorts of people pose for
> >adds. I think you will find that pictures of Janette Lee will only
enhance
> >the image of pool to a wider audience. Would you critisize a picture of
> >Michael Jordan sitting on a basketball. I think not.
> >
> >ps i haven't seen the pictures either so i will not say if they are good
or
> >bad
>
> I'm entitled to my opinion regardless of what it is based on. Heck, I
> can make up an opinion without basing it on anything except my
> imagination! However, I did not base my opinion on someone else's
> opinion, I based it on a description of the photo. If that person lied
> in his or her description, then I reserve the right to re-evaluate my
> opinion.
But if one person doesn't like the pictures and provides a negative
description and someone else does like the pictures and provides a positive
description they are BOTH right. Thats why you should look at the pictures
and make up your own mind.
And yes i respect your right to have an opinion based on whatever you like.
I just think it's not being fair to Janette to critisis her without viewing
the evidence.
> I don't give a rat's behind what Michael Jordan does. I have no
> interest in basketball. I do, however, have an interest in billiards.
Michael Jordan has had many more pictures taken of him, and he wears less
clothing than Janette does when he plays, and this has done wonders for the
level of interest in basketball. I hope and i'm sure you agree with me
here, that it would be good if Janette or someone else could do the same
for billiards.
> p.s. You seem to have no trouble criticizing other people's opinions.
> Is that not also forming an opinion based on an opinion?
I didn't critisis your opinion. I critised that you condemed Janette
without viewing the pictures.
You are of course allowed to hold any opinion you wish. I just want to
point out that i dissagree with the mob mentallity of condeming something
out of hand without viewing what is so wrong. Should we burn Janette at the
stake or consider her innocent until proven otherwise.
Anyway pools "bad image", if you like, comes from where the game
developped, gambling rooms etc, not from pictures that might catch the
imagination, positive or negative, of the general public.
ps I think we both agree how popular the sport should be in the long run
maybe just not on what might stop it getting there.
pps Janette Lee is a very attractive lady but the reason 99% of people here
respect her is for her exciting pool playing not her looks. Look's catch
the eye but respect is earn't.
ppps Looked at your web page yesterdand its very good
Laura Friedman
Gary Robinson wrote:
>
> I agree that most of the Billiard rags arent great literature.
> They could use cleaning up as far as the content goes.
Easy there!
Laura
Deno J. Andrews
David Miller wrote:
>
> Pardon me but IMO the people you should be attacking here are the
> advertisers and not the model. I seriously doubt that Jeanette Lee had
> anything to do with styling the photos, that would have been the ad
> agency and the photographer they used. If you want to debate the poor
> taste of the manufacturers & how they are degrading the sport we all
> love so much fine but I think in this case the guns are pointed in the
> wrong direction.
I know if Jeanette didn't want to pose like she did, she would not have
had to. The model has alot of control as to what kind of shots are
taken. Plus, she is not a model, she's a pool player, and in none of
those ads is she promoted as such. She could just be any model trying
to look sexy ( .10/12 ). Too bad. I do also agree with you that the
manufacturer is also responsible for even letting ad's like these
circulate.
Deno
Deno J. Andrews
Gary Robinson wrote:
> How many adds, IN ALMOST EVERY MAGAZINE, highlites Michael Jordan's
> sex appeal? I can not count the number of times I've see his image
> displayed in very dramatic and sexy adds in the past week alone (as
> every week, in or out of season, all year long).
> And, it has done nothing to hurt the NBA. On the contrary, without MJ,
> where would the NBA be now? And though he is probably the best that
> has ever played the game, it doesnt hurt his image that he is also a
> handsome, sexy man. Pool needs superstars too, and like the major
> sports, the images of the athletes are not produced soley from thier
> actions on the playing field.
In this case it is different. Michael has a very natural sex appeal.
You could take a snap shot of him and he looks good. He has a great
smile and a good disposition. He is naturally a good looking man.
Also, you don't see him doing ads where he has to pose in less than
classy ways. No he's just Michael, and everyone knows he is the worlds
greatest basketball player ever. In Jeanettes case, everybody who knows
pool knows she has never been the best player. Here's the important
part...those who don't know pool and pick up the magazine, don't even
know she plays pool! They will have no clue unless they read the small
print. I feel a little bad, I think Jeanette has a certain natural
beauty which she hides when she does ads like these. I think she thinks
she needs to do something EXTRA for the camera. A couple of modeling
classes will cure her of that. I sure wouldn't buy any of those
products that couldn't stand on their own reputation and the reputation
of a good person/player. when they start doing that kind of stuff...I
think "hhmmmm, why can't they sell their stuff?"
Deno
lfig...@att.net
After the third ad in the BD Expo issue (and seeing her featured in a close up
on the cover of Shamos' new book, pg 34 and 154) the only thought that crossed
my mind was, "she's really selling herself cheaply." Frankly, the number of
ads that featured her turned me off and made me tired of looking at her mug
(cute as it might be).
I also had to wonder about her sponsors. Do they think the people (us) who
see these ads are going to be sucked in to thinking wonderful thoughts about
their products, just because JL has been paid a few bucks to seductively pose
on top of them? It's certainly taking the low road. It would seem, at least
to me, that many advertisers have a rather poor opinion of us if they don't
care if it seems like their spokesperson is selling herself as freely as a
$20 hooker, with poses to match.
We've all seen pool related ads with nubile models -- no big deal. But it
becomes problematic when these kinds of ads involve a player. (Think Efren in
binki briefs splayed across 9' of Simonis.) The only thing participating, as
frequently as she does, in these kinds of ads is to reinforce the perception
some people have of her as a lady who's a bit full of herself and who'd sell
her mother for a few bucks and a bit of self-promotion.
Certainly a sport with as colorful a history as pool can withstand a few more
coy shots of JL. And, perhaps, when she starts selling products on the merits
of her accomplishments as a player, she might recoup some of the damage she's
currently inflicting, only on herself.
Lou Figueroa
In article <jewettEu...@netcom.com>,
jew...@netcom.com (Bob Jewett) wrote:
>
> Since there are several pictures, I'd like to know how people feel about
> each one. I find it remarkable that people have offered opinions here
> without having seen any of the pictures. Oh, well, this is Usenet....
>
> So, please cut out the form below and insert your op>
<input type=
kar...@teamnet.net
Okay, so now rsb has created a dilemma for the advertisers.
Do they continue their ads in the same fashion, and appeal
to some players, or do they try to clean them up a bit (not
that I thought they were "dirty") and appeal to the other
players?
My solution is simple: they should sponsor me. I guarantee that no
matter how I posed in their advertisements, no one would
consider it too "sexy". If they would like to change their
focus and give their ads a more wholesome, midwestern, housewifey
appeal, then I'm the girl for them! And I can shoot, too! That should
sell oodles of product, right guys?
In article <6ma06i$47d0$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
LFE...@prodigy.com (P Street) wrote:
>
> I thought the pros were hung up on the mantra:
> "Let's improve the Image of Pool"
> By cleaning up it's appeal more people will play.
>
> But did you get a load of the likes of Jeanette Lee posing
> for the Imperial ads in Billiards Digest this issue?
>
> This hardly takes pool up a notch.
>
> What's sleazier: The one where she covers her crotch
> spread eagle on a pool ball?
> or
> The one where her "torpedos" are ready to launch?
>
> Think maybe the WPBA will issue a fine for her seductive ads?
>
> She should be ashamed. This hardly improves anything but her
> income.
>
> What's next The Jeanette Lee swimsuit signature cue?
>
> Sheesh
>
> P Street
>
>
Gary Robinson
SOME of the articles are great!
:)
bobgreen
Just finished reading the latest news in my grocery store tabloid.
(Where I get all my info on aliens & important stuff)
God help us! there goes the news group.
By the way "Jeanette comments" dominate this news group periodically,
one would conclude this was a bunch of Jeanette groupees.
Bored with Jeanette
Bob
Mike Hu
lfig...@att.net wrote:
> I also had to wonder about her sponsors. Do they think the people (us) who
> see these ads are going to be sucked in to thinking wonderful thoughts about
> their products, just because JL has been paid a few bucks to seductively pose
> on top of them?
In a word yes. Does Michael Jordan help Nike sells shoes, especially the Air
Jordan model? Of course. Are most educated, successful people influenced by
these advertisements? I would think not. But they do sell the product, that's a
fact. A sad fact, but a fact nonetheless.
--
Learn from past experiences
Incorporate what is useful
Reject what is useless
Add new and unique methods
Robert W. Johnson
Karla,
"Housewifey"? Actually, someone out there would still probably be offended.
In the meantime, I'm re-thinking my memories of my good ol' college days at
UNI. You mean to tell me they were really wholesome and mid-western? Kind
of takes away some of the excitement! But now you've got me thinking, maybe
I should call Hanes! Nah, those staples look like they would hurt. Bob
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co., beta ID 212564
Home of the World Champion Denver Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
kar...@teamnet.net wrote in message <6mdq2f$1cd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Gary Robinson
On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 06:53:55 -0500, "Deno J. Andrews"
<de...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
>In this case it is different. Michael has a very natural sex appeal.
Jeanette has a very natural sex appeal!
>You could take a snap shot of him and he looks good. He has a great
>smile and a good disposition. He is naturally a good looking man.
Jeanette looks great in all the snap shots I've seen of her. She has a
great smile and a disposition that I admire (The one I've seen
displayed on ESPN and in her few post here in this newsgroup). She is
a naturally good looking woman.
>Also, you don't see him doing ads where he has to pose in less than
>classy ways.....
Thats an obvious opinion that I would agree with. He HAS posed in some
that may have offended some people but not me. It is also my opinion
that Jeanette WAS NOT "less than classy" in her posing.
>.....No he's just Michael, and everyone knows he is the worlds
>greatest basketball player ever. In Jeanettes case, everybody who knows
>pool knows she has never been the best player.....
Ok, I admitt, that MJ is a hard standard for most of us mortals to
aspire to be. Bad choice for an example on my part. Just picked
someone everyone would know.
New example: Troy Aikman
Troy is all over the place posing too, but his rating as a quarterback
is not the best in the NFL. (although at times, one of the best)
He will never be included in the top 5 best of all time.
I could name a dozen or so atheletes that are not the best at what
they do, but still pose and sell there images for endorsements.
Jeantte is currently rated 2nd in the world.
She may not be the best player (seems Ms. Fisher is the real MJ clone
here) but she is ONE of the best. Maybe its just her bad luck to be at
her prime when the 800 pound gorrilla is playing. (I'm a big Fisher
fan too!) Kind of like it was Frazier's bad luck to have Ali come
along at the same time. (Actually it made them both better I think!)
My point here is, dont dis on Jeanette' playing ablitiy, she is among
the top 5 in the world!
>...... Here's the important
>part...those who don't know pool and pick up the magazine, don't even
>know she plays pool! They will have no clue unless they read the small
>print.....
She's been on ESPN more times than you and I can count. More people
see her by accident on the TV than they do in a magazine of very
limited circulation. I'm guessing here. I admit I dont know the
circulation numbers of the pool rags. And I dont mean to take cheap
shots at them. I just feel that we are blowing this thing way out of
line. ESPN probably does more for her exposure than the magazine
pictures will do. Most of the people who pick up the magazine did not
pick it up for the pictures of Jeanette Lee. They picked it up because
they are pool fans already.
> I feel a little bad, I think Jeanette has a certain natural
>beauty which she hides when she does ads like these.
Her natural was not hidden to me :)
>I think she thinks she needs to do something EXTRA for the camera....
The camera loves Jeanette.
>.... A couple of modeling
>classes will cure her of that....
Dont fix what is not broken.
Seriously, let her take modeling classes if she wants.
Maybe its another way to advance her career.
>I sure wouldn't buy any of those
>products that couldn't stand on their own reputation and the reputation
>of a good person/player. when they start doing that kind of stuff...I
>think "hhmmmm, why can't they sell their stuff?"
I could go on an on here, I have already actually :)
I'm just not ready to condem Jeanette for doing what others do
everyday. On the contrary, I applaud her. If the male pig in me wants
to see more pictures of her, then I apologize for my pigness. Im sure
that my pigness delutes my postion here somewhat for some people. No
part of me is worried about the "image of pool" being any better or
any worse as a result of Jeanette Lee's pictures?
I'm out of breath.
I'm embarrased by my lack of writing and spelling skills I have
displayed here. I have posted more words in these last few posts than
I have in all my time in ANY newsgroups put together. I normally just
lurk and read.
I enjoyed your response.
G.
=^.^=
"The Baron" <michae...@alcatel.NOSPAM.com.au> wrote:
<snip>
>ps I think we both agree how popular the sport should be in the long run
>maybe just not on what might stop it getting there.
>
>pps Janette Lee is a very attractive lady but the reason 99% of people here
>respect her is for her exciting pool playing not her looks. Look's catch
>the eye but respect is earn't.
>
>ppps Looked at your web page yesterdand its very good
You must be completely p'ed out by now. ;-)
ps Thanks for the nice comment about the web page.
Bev
Outofplumb
I nominate P Street as the "Official (and officious) Net-news Nanny of the
Month."
Smorgass Bored
Mike Hu's statement about Michael Jordan selling Nike 'Air Jordans'
prompts this thought from me.
Perhaps we in r.s.b. are OLDER (many of us are 40 or over) and BD
wants to appeal to the 18-30 age group with their ads. Sex sells and so
does youth.... IMO
I'll bet that 95% of the young men reading BD don't find anything
wrong with the ads. (or the young women readers either).
rack-em,
Doug W.
~>*) Big Fish EAT Little Fish (*<~
Gary Robinson
Anyone here old enough to remember the stir caused by Jan Stephenson
(spelling?) when she posed for some sexy shots for whatever magazine?
Man old man, that set back the WPGA a hundred years!
The nerve of her destroying women's golf showing off her legs like
that!
Just kidding!
G.
P.S. Nacy Lopez was as fine to me back then as Farrah.
Robert W. Johnson
At the ripe old age of 47, I find nothing offensive at all about Jeanette or
the ads in question. Thought I would say that while I still can, since I
seem to be rapidly approaching the "golden years" and the twilight of my
life. Damn, I FEEL OLD suddenly. Bob
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co., beta ID 212564
Home of the World Champion Denver Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Smorgass Bored wrote in message
<6me0nq$4rm$1...@newsd-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Bob Jewett
=^.^= (clou...@NOSPAMprimenet.com) wrote:
: How is this different? Someone describes on the newsgroup what they
: see in a magazine before them and
: asks our opinions. We give those opinions. No difference.
I just think its a better discussion when people talk about reality
rather what they believe might be someone elses perceptions.
Bob Jewett
John Walkup
I don't remember the name of the magazine, but wasn't it aimed at the
serious pool player,
who would almost certainly know who Jeanette Lee was?
Deno J. Andrews wrote:
> Gary Robinson wrote:
>
> > How many adds, IN ALMOST EVERY MAGAZINE, highlites Michael Jordan's
> > sex appeal? I can not count the number of times I've see his image
> > displayed in very dramatic and sexy adds in the past week alone (as
> > every week, in or out of season, all year long).
> > And, it has done nothing to hurt the NBA. On the contrary, without MJ,
> > where would the NBA be now? And though he is probably the best that
> > has ever played the game, it doesnt hurt his image that he is also a
> > handsome, sexy man. Pool needs superstars too, and like the major
> > sports, the images of the athletes are not produced soley from thier
> > actions on the playing field.
>
> In this case it is different. Michael has a very natural sex appeal.
> You could take a snap shot of him and he looks good. He has a great
> smile and a good disposition. He is naturally a good looking man.
> Also, you don't see him doing ads where he has to pose in less than
> classy ways. No he's just Michael, and everyone knows he is the worlds
> greatest basketball player ever. In Jeanettes case, everybody who knows
> pool knows she has never been the best player. Here's the important
> part...those who don't know pool and pick up the magazine, don't even
> know she plays pool! They will have no clue unless they read the small
> print. I feel a little bad, I think Jeanette has a certain natural
> beauty which she hides when she does ads like these. I think she thinks
> she needs to do something EXTRA for the camera. A couple of modeling
> classes will cure her of that. I sure wouldn't buy any of those
> products that couldn't stand on their own reputation and the reputation
> of a good person/player. when they start doing that kind of stuff...I
> think "hhmmmm, why can't they sell their stuff?"
> Deno
--
**********************************************************************
John Walkup
The Cue Gallery (http://www.cuegallery.com)
Authorized Dealer:
The Schuler Cue
Verl Horn Custom Cues
Instroke Cue Cases
John Walkup
bobgreen wrote:
As opposed to the 1000 Allison Fisher groupies in this newsgroup?
John Walkup
kar...@teamnet.net wrote:
> My solution is simple: they should sponsor me. I guarantee that no
> matter how I posed in their advertisements, no one would
> consider it too "sexy". If they would like to change their
> focus and give their ads a more wholesome, midwestern, housewifey
> appeal, then I'm the girl for them! And I can shoot, too! That should
> sell oodles of product, right guys?
I realize your intense desire to break into the modeling field, but
threateningthe editors with armed assault is a tad extreme.
Oh, you meant "shoot" as in "shooting pool." Sorry. Never mind.
bobgreen
John wrote:
>
> By the way "Jeanette comments" dominate this news group periodically,
> one would conclude this was a bunch of Jeanette groupees.
As opposed to the 1000 Allison Fisher groupies in this newsgroup?
--
**********************************************************************
John Walkup
The Cue Gallery (http://www.cuegallery.com)
Authorized Dealer:
The Schuler Cue
Verl Horn Custom Cues
Instroke Cue Cases
--------------------------------------
Whose Allison Fisher? Has she caught any bass lately?
:-)
Bob
Smorgass Bored
Heck ! I better check my eyes TOO... I've been following this thread
and I didn't even know P Street was a female. Was that info in a post
and I just missed it? I must be getting senile. What's the point of
following a thread on JL's ads if I don't even know who the r.s.b.
players are?
sheesh,
Doug W.
~>*) Big Fish EAT Little Fish (*<~
When all else fails,take my advice,
Pull down your pants,and slide on the ICE.
Smorgass Bored
PS
As they're so fond of saying on MAD TV ;
OK, OK, I tell you everything.. I, look a like a MAN.
you're now watching MAD TV,
JohnA
>My opinions about the Jeanette Lee ads in Billiards Digest, June 1998:
Maybe we should give equal time for the men.
>Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
How about the Miz for this one. Oops wouldn't be able to see the table.
>Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
Your trade show issue must have different ad content than those in the
Pasific Northwest. Unless your talking about the ad on page 57. If you are
talking about the ad on 57 then she is very hard to recognize with the beard
and the scowl.
But I have seen the ad your talking about and I would pick Nick Varner for
this one. Of course the Harley would need training wheels.
>Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
How about Howard Vickery in a speedo.
>Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
Buddy Hall looking demurely of course.
IMHO - I think Jeanette looks terrific and in no way do I find it offensive.
John (Kent, Wa.)
Broaden your skills. Play all the games.
MW 9BALL
I've been reading and doing limited posting on this newsgroup for several
months now and have enjoyed it immensely. It seems to me though that this
Jeanette Lee ad is getting a bit too much print. Probably 50% or more of the
posts in the last couple of days has been concerning this topic. Think maybe we
could give it a rest and talk about pool for a change!
P Street
>I nominate P Street as the "Official (and officious) Net-news Nanny of
the
>Month."
What's a Nanny to you? A spinster who could care less about pool?
Let me claify my initial post, since few folks seem to understand.
The Jeanette Lee ads are distasteful and not Professional. Eva Laurance
has had a VERY professional add promoting pool and its Image that
revolves around sex appeal. There is nothing wrong with sex appeal! Yes
Sex sells,
but it can also cheapen and mislead. Notice the posts regarding
JL posing for Playboy? Where did that come from? Wanting to buy Imperial
products? Disgusting!
The add of JL on page 1 shows an attractive lady who is very much into
pool.
There is another picture of her on page 34 capturing what all of us here
on r.s.b understand. The blood and guts of it all. Great for pool!
No P Street is not a Nanny, but SHE can play a bit.
Sorry if my perception was too blunt.
Speaking of perception Should Bob Jewitt get his eyes checked?
Page 56 doesn't look like JL at all, and it's not about pool.
Later.......
Gordon Matheson
=^.^= <clou...@NOSPAMprimenet.com> wrote:
> I haven't seen the ads, but based only on the descriptions that have
> been provided here, I would not think highly of them. Those described
> poses are for money only, not for pool.
What's wrong with doing something for money? You are holding JL to a
mighty high standard. How many people would go to work if they were not
paid? I certainly did it for the money. Fishing and pool I do for free.
I'd like to point out that pool is JL's job and she should be doing it for
the money. She is under no moral obligation to only do ads that are "for
pool"(whatever that means). I bet her agent would say she is under a moral
obligation to appear in ads where she gets paid.
Although I haven't yet seen the ads, I think thou doth protest too much but
seeing as how not protesting takes all the fun out of the thread, I have a
protest of my own. Where the #!~* is my July issue of BD ???
G.
Deno J. Andrews
Gary Robinson wrote:
> She is a naturally good looking woman.
She does have a bit of natural beauty...but she is no model. I get the
feeling she and her sponsors are trying to promote her in such a way to
make her look like a player/model. This is really bad because she is
not a model.
> Jeantte is currently rated 2nd in the world.
> She may not be the best player (seems Ms. Fisher is the real MJ clone
> here) but she is ONE of the best. My point here is, dont dis on Jeanette' playing > ablitiy, she is among the top 5 in the world!
here is a good point to debate. The rankings say she is 2nd...her
second is very very very far from from being world class status.
Unfortunaltely, the women have yet to be able to play to likes of the
men except for Allison. So her playing ability is not as good as it's
hyped to be. In reality, she needs alot of work before she can be
respected as a player in the big picture. I was recently in Boston, for
a billiard tournament. It was the same time as the WPBA tournament. So
I went to the tournament to watch a couple of my good friends play.
While there, I decided to watch Jeanette play a set. I was not real
impressed. I saw her miss shot after shot. She seemed to be so
interested in wearing the most revealing attire. She was also so
wrapped up in how she looked...making sure she used all of her
expressions in every game. And most of all...putting on her INTENSE
face while playing. All of this added up to her not being able to play
anywhere near Allison or Ewa etc. It was a bad display.
> She's been on ESPN more times than you and I can count. More people
> see her by accident on the TV than they do in a magazine of very
> limited circulation.
Sure...ESPN loves her because she dresses in a way that will suit their
male catering image. They know what they are doing, they know how to
sell TV. This makes a big point for me...By her being the focus of
media attention, she is helping to degenerate the quality of pool played
by women. You see, she is promoting that it is OK to play badly as long
as you dress in a way that makes men want to watch you. To go back to
Jordan...why is he so famous? Is it because he dresses too revealing or
is it because he is truly the greatest? It is because he is the best.
Allison, Gerda and a few of the others are doing a good job to build the
image based on playing ability...the way it should be. If Jeanette
want's to show off, let her try and get a Playboy layout and compete
with the other million women trying to show off how good looking they
are. A pool tournament is not the place to show off a nice body. A
pool tournament is a place where you dress with class and dignity and
try to show off oyur playing ability.
> ESPN probably does more for her exposure than the magazine
> pictures will do. The camera loves Jeanette.
Again I stress my point about taking the image away from dressing and
playing like a professional, and saying it's OK to dress like me because
every man in the place looks at my butt. Everybody knows the only
reason so many men watch Jeanette is so they can catch a peek at her
butt or something else. When they want to watch a good player, they
watch Allison, who is also good looking but dresses like a pro, so she
doesn't draw any attention of the wrong nature.
> I'm just not ready to condem Jeanette for doing what others do
> everyday.
Just because others do it doesn't make it OK.
> On the contrary, I applaud her. If the male pig in me wants
> to see more pictures of her, then I apologize for my pigness. Im sure
> that my pigness delutes my postion here somewhat for some people. No
> part of me is worried about the "image of pool" being any better or
> any worse as a result of Jeanette Lee's pictures?
See, you are saying her importance to you is her sexual image. In
reality, it is less important to you how well she plays, than how she
looks. When we look at Allison, nobody really cares how cute she is,
only how well she plays, and that's good for the game.
> I normally just lurk and read.
> I enjoyed your response.
> G.
Most know I have solid opinions about the way the games should be. My
history is in 3 Cushion Billiards, so automatically, I care more about
the image of cue sports. I am not saying it's wrong to enjoy Jeanettes
looks, just that she flaunts them in the right place and time, and not
at a professional event. I applaud you for taking part and sharing your
opinion. You make some very good points and I enjoy discussing them
with you.
Deno
John Walkup
Deno J. Andrews wrote:
> Gary Robinson wrote:
> > She is a naturally good looking woman.
>
> She does have a bit of natural beauty...but she is no model.
Actually, I think she is more beautiful than most models. Have you seen theuglisauruses they have been trotting out on the runway
lately? It's a misconception
to think that models are hired for their beauty.
> > Jeantte is currently rated 2nd in the world.
> > She may not be the best player (seems Ms. Fisher is the real MJ clone
> > here) but she is ONE of the best. My point here is, dont dis on Jeanette' playing > ablitiy, she is among the top 5 in the world!
>
> here is a good point to debate. The rankings say she is 2nd...her
> second is very very very far from from being world class status.
Whoa! I would hate to hear your opinions about the player ranked 3rd in theworld.
> Unfortunaltely, the women have yet to be able to play to likes of the
> men except for Allison. So her playing ability is not as good as it's
> hyped to be. In reality, she needs alot of work before she can be
> respected as a player in the big picture. I was recently in Boston, for
> a billiard tournament. It was the same time as the WPBA tournament. So
> I went to the tournament to watch a couple of my good friends play.
> While there, I decided to watch Jeanette play a set. I was not real
> impressed. I saw her miss shot after shot. She seemed to be so
> interested in wearing the most revealing attire. She was also so
> wrapped up in how she looked...making sure she used all of her
> expressions in every game. And most of all...putting on her INTENSE
> face while playing. All of this added up to her not being able to play
> anywhere near Allison or Ewa etc. It was a bad display.
Yet she is ranked 2nd in the world.
> > She's been on ESPN more times than you and I can count. More people
> > see her by accident on the TV than they do in a magazine of very
> > limited circulation.
>
> Sure...ESPN loves her because she dresses in a way that will suit their
> male catering image. They know what they are doing, they know how to
> sell TV. This makes a big point for me...By her being the focus of
> media attention, she is helping to degenerate the quality of pool played
> by women. You see, she is promoting that it is OK to play badly as long
> as you dress in a way that makes men want to watch you.
Play badly? Again, the third ranked female player must be a pure novice in yourbook.
I almost agree with your point about the impropriety of Jeanette's photo layout.
But I think you skewer your own arguments by trashing Jeanette's pool playing.
Amongs her peers (the women in the WPBA) she is a world-class player.
You make her out to be some novice who doesn't know one end of a cue from
another.
> > On the contrary, I applaud her. If the male pig in me wants
> > to see more pictures of her, then I apologize for my pigness. Im sure
> > that my pigness delutes my postion here somewhat for some people. No
> > part of me is worried about the "image of pool" being any better or
> > any worse as a result of Jeanette Lee's pictures?
>
> See, you are saying her importance to you is her sexual image. In
> reality, it is less important to you how well she plays, than how she
> looks. When we look at Allison, nobody really cares how cute she is,
> only how well she plays, and that's good for the game.
Actually, Allison's popularity definitely depends on her cuteness. Although she hasearned all the accolades she gets, let's not
pretend that her looks have nothing to do with
her popularity.
Ed Mercier
Sorry, I have to agree with Deno here. Don't think she's a particularly strong
pool player, and most of her appeal is visual.
Deno J. Andrews
John Walkup wrote:
> Whoa! I would hate to hear your opinions about the player ranked 3rd in theworld.
3rd!!! Is there a 3rd place now? Just kidding. I was just trying to
articulate the gap between Jeanettes speed and Allison's. Really, over
time, Jeanettes speed is considerably less.
> > Sure...ESPN loves her because she dresses in a way that will suit their
> > male catering image. They know what they are doing, they know how to
> > sell TV. This makes a big point for me...By her being the focus of
> > media attention, she is helping to degenerate the quality of pool played
> > by women. You see, she is promoting that it is OK to play badly as long
> > as you dress in a way that makes men want to watch you.
> Play badly? Again, the third ranked female player must be a pure novice in yourbook.
No, I didn't mean for it to sound like it did. Many of them are fine
players. It just seems like Jeanette has to do something extra, because
she can't get the respect as a player like Allison. What she really
doesn't understand is that she will never get the respect until she
starts to act and promote herself as a professional pool player. I
understand Jeanette has been asked to go back to her room and change,
because she wanted to play with some super slutty outfit. This was in
the World Championship...
> I almost agree with your point about the impropriety of Jeanette's photo layout.
> But I think you skewer your own arguments by trashing Jeanette's pool playing.
> Amongs her peers (the women in the WPBA) she is a world-class player.
> You make her out to be some novice who doesn't know one end of a cue from
> another.
Well among my peers in the US, I am considered a decent and
knowledgeable 3 cushion player, but in the big picture, my average would
not qualify me to referee a match in Japan. So I agree with you on this
point. I just don't really consider her rank as a determining point as
to how she plays. I don't really want to take anything away from her, I
think she is talented. I just wish she would spend more time improving
her game and her image, because she could be an important factor for the
future of the game. I know she loves the attention, and I think she
thinks she gets it because people like her. In reality, they just pay
attention because she looks good and people like to be around good
looking people. She could continue to be good looking but alter her
image to raise the class level a few notches. She will still look good,
but people would add..."she has alot of class", instead of "boy she
dresses like slut"(not really what I think...just what I have heard many
say). I happen to think her attire is good for certain places with
certain crowds, but not at a tournament.
> Actually, Allison's popularity definitely depends on her cuteness. Although she >hasearned all the accolades she gets, let's not pretend that her looks have nothing to >do with her popularity.
I disagree, people watch her because she can play. I am sure it doesn't
hurt her that she is cute, but it's not as big a draw as her game. How
about Balukas? She's legendary...and she wasn't the most attractive.
I don't know, call me conservative, call me judgemental...I just don't
know. I just think she could get the respect she wants without having
to show her butt and chest all the time. Maybe I will invite her to go
shopping with me. I have a very conservative but stylish clothier. I'm
sure we could find some Versace or Fendi stuff she will look good in.
Deno
Smorgass Bored
Man,you guys are TOO much. If you're not picking apart a players
game,it's their attire. I'll tell you one thing,I'm definately NOT
wearing my slinky outfit to the r.s.b. tournament.
sheesh,Blackwell wannabes,
Doug W.
~>*) Big Fish EAT Little Fish (*<~
When all else fails,take my advice,
Pull down your pants,and Slide on the ice.
Gary Robinson
On Sat, 20 Jun 1998 08:48:38 -0500, "Deno J. Andrews"
<de...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
>here is a good point to debate. The rankings say she is 2nd...her
>second is very very very far from from being world class status.
Among women, she is world class just by the very fact she is ranked
2nd.
>Unfortunaltely, the women have yet to be able to play to likes of the
>men except for Allison. So her playing ability is not as good as it's
>hyped to be. In reality, she needs alot of work before she can be
>respected as a player in the big picture. I was recently in Boston, for
>a billiard tournament. It was the same time as the WPBA tournament. So
>I went to the tournament to watch a couple of my good friends play.
>While there, I decided to watch Jeanette play a set. I was not real
>impressed. I saw her miss shot after shot. She seemed to be so
>interested in wearing the most revealing attire. She was also so
>wrapped up in how she looked...making sure she used all of her
>expressions in every game. And most of all...putting on her INTENSE
>face while playing. All of this added up to her not being able to play
>anywhere near Allison or Ewa etc. It was a bad display.
I only wish that I could respond that I have seen her play in person.
I admit that my opinion may be from a different angle because did not
see the things you have in person. You have an advantge on me here.
I have seen her, and others, miss shots on ESPN that they should not.
I have seen the men do the same.
But as far as not being able to play "anywhere near Allison or Ewa?...
I disagree. The very fact that she is rated above Ewa would indicate
that she can play with her.
Does anyone know her face to face record with Ewa?
>Sure...ESPN loves her because she dresses in a way that will suit their
>male catering image. They know what they are doing, they know how to
>sell TV.
Yeah, they know how to sell TV.
"Honey, is that the strong man competition coming on?"
"Put out the cat, shut up the kids. Bring me a beer and a ham samich!"
Jeanette would not be on ESPN if she was not winning and making it to
the final rounds. And she seems to be winning pretty consistantly.
Simply showing off her good looks does not get her to the final
rounds. She does that with the cue.
>This makes a big point for me...By her being the focus of
>media attention, she is helping to degenerate the quality of pool played
>by women. You see, she is promoting that it is OK to play badly as long
>as you dress in a way that makes men want to watch you....
I think the quality of women's pool is at an all time high.
The exposure and qualitly of play has never been better.
>To go back to....
>......Jordan...why is he so famous? Is it because he dresses too revealing or
>is it because he is truly the greatest? It is because he is the best.
Again, I brought up MJ as an example of a great athlete that also
poses for adds in the same way that Jeanette did in the picures we are
debating. MJ is famous because he is a great player FIRST. His good
looks and public personna also played a major part in his rise to the
top as one of the greatest players of all times. There have been other
great players that didnt make it to his level (as far as his overall
public personna is concerned) because they didnt have the extras that
MJ does. They might me not as good looking or might not have as good
of personality, etc.... MJ is a great player first BUT the extras that
he has took him to the level he is at now. As great a player as MJ is,
if he had never done a commercial, never posed for an add, never made
a moive, never gave interviews, we (the general public) would have
hardly noticed him. But, MJ is now King of the world. I sure as hell
want to "be like Mike". But if you think it is because of his playing
ability alone that he is where he is today, then you and I are so far
apart that we will never come to an agreement on any of this so we
might as well stop trying.
>Again I stress my point about taking the image away from dressing and
>playing like a professional, and saying it's OK to dress like me because
>every man in the place looks at my butt. Everybody knows the only
>reason so many men watch Jeanette is so they can catch a peek at her
>butt or something else.
I'm guilty.
I sneek peeks at her butt.
I'm a pig.
<I hang my head>
:(
BUT, I watch her play on ESPN because its pool FIRST.
Her butt happens to be there.
And I accidently see her butt and I cant get up to go the the fridge
because I might miss her butt when she plays that great safe and puts
the cue ball against the 7 and the rail. Then, the way her butt looks
when she makes the 9 is incredible. Its what men write songs about.
Its what artist paint..... oh sorry, got carried awy there.
>When they want to watch a good player, they
>watch Allison, who is also good looking but dresses like a pro, so she
>doesn't draw any attention of the wrong nature.
uh, I also copped a shot of Allison's butt.
I am scum. Somebody please kill me.
But when she lines up those shots (snooker style) with her chin right
over the cue, her butt is perfect, you know?
It's her fault. Her butt is too perfect. She actually has a better
butt than Jeanette. And she is ranked #1 in the world. Jeanette should
work on her butt.
>See, you are saying her importance to you is her sexual image. In
>reality, it is less important to you how well she plays, than how she
>looks. When we look at Allison, nobody really cares how cute she is,
>only how well she plays, and that's good for the game.
Seriously, our discussion here is more focused on her sexual image
because of the pictures in the magazine. I am a fan of the game first.
Her being easy on the eyes is a nice addition. Not the other way
around.
We are kicking around the subject of her looks because of the magazine
shots. Just because that is the focus of these posts does not mean we
are not fans of her game first.
I am interested in Jeanette and Allison because of pool FIRST.
I would never have seen either one of them otherwise.
I am not only interested in Jeanette because of her image as you
imply.
And by the way, I think Allison is extremely nice looking also!
Her cute mouth, they way it curls around her accent
Her smile melts my heart..... oops, sorry, I lost it there for a
moment.
Allison seems to be getting better at 9 ball every time I see her on
ESPN. I would rather watch her play than any other play on the WPBA
tour.
I just dont agree that with your position on Jeanette.
I also dont agree that the only reason I (or other men here in this
group) watch her play is to check out her looks. Her looks is the main
point of this discussion because of the pictures BUT NOT THE MAIN
REASON I WATCH HER PLAY.
Women's pool is at an all time high.
I see no evidence that Jeanette has hurt pool.
I only see evidence that she has made it better along with many other
players and supporters.
G.
PS. Gerda, Ewa, Jennifer, Dawn and Loree have killer tushes too.
I'm dirt. I will try to repent.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
I will not look at Jeanette's butt.
YES I WILL!
Smorgass Bored
Deno,
YOU wear Versace and Fendi? Take the Barbarachnid shopping ...
yeehaaaa,
outofpl...@aol.com
In article <6mf3ek$c5gi$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, LFE...@prodigy.com
says...
>
>>I nominate P Street as the "Official (and officious) Net-News Nanny of
>the Month."
>What's a Nanny to you? A spinster who could care less about pool?
No. You may or may not be a spinster, but you do seem to care about pool. And
surely you know what a Net-News Nanny is. If you don't, look up "officious."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Jeanette Lee ads are distasteful and not Professional.
This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I've seen the ads and find
nothing distasteful, or unprofessional about them. If pressed, I would admit
that they are a little silly, and show a lack of imagination. As far as these
particular ads go, I think a person's reaction to them says more about the
person than it does about the ads.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>No P Street is not a Nanny, but SHE can play a bit.
Maybe you can play a bit, but you ARE a nanny.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
SnookerUSA
All I can say is I have met her and she
is pleasant and very pretty. . . .
hubba hubba.....
Oh hiya honey..didn't see you standing
there........ (Frying pan in the head).
8O*
Mark Kulaga
Cue Sports Enthusiast
<A HREF="http://www.snookerusa.com/SnookerUSA.html">SnookerUSA</A>
John Walkup
Deno J. Andrews wrote:
> John Walkup wrote:
>
> > Whoa! I would hate to hear your opinions about the player ranked 3rd in theworld.
>
> 3rd!!! Is there a 3rd place now? Just kidding. I was just trying to
> articulate the gap between Jeanettes speed and Allison's. Really, over
> time, Jeanettes speed is considerably less.
Well, that is a judgment call that I am not willing to make.
> > > Sure...ESPN loves her because she dresses in a way that will suit their
> > > male catering image. They know what they are doing, they know how to
> > > sell TV. This makes a big point for me...By her being the focus of
> > > media attention, she is helping to degenerate the quality of pool played
> > > by women. You see, she is promoting that it is OK to play badly as long
> > > as you dress in a way that makes men want to watch you.
>
> > Play badly? Again, the third ranked female player must be a pure novice in yourbook.
>
> No, I didn't mean for it to sound like it did. Many of them are fine
> players. It just seems like Jeanette has to do something extra, because
> she can't get the respect as a player like Allison. What she really
> doesn't understand is that she will never get the respect until she
> starts to act and promote herself as a professional pool player.
But you just got done telling us she isn't all that good? So how is she going to getthe respect as a player if she doesn't have that much talent?
Jeanette is a big name in pool. Many people consider her a top player. The WPBA
certainly does. What does she have to gain by going straight-laced if she doesn't
have the talent to get respect based on her pool-playing alone? YOU certainly don't
seem to respect her pool playing, so what would changing outfits do for that?
> I understand Jeanette has been asked to go back to her room and change,
> because she wanted to play with some super slutty outfit. This was in
> the World Championship...
And I am all in favor of dress codes. I understand your desire to have everyone dressnattily for big events. I think they should as well. I just don't see how Jeanette's
reputation as a pool player has been harmed in this regard if she is ranked #2 in the
world. Somewhere along the line she must have won a few tournaments to get that high
of a ranking.
> > I almost agree with your point about the impropriety of Jeanette's photo layout.
> > But I think you skewer your own arguments by trashing Jeanette's pool playing.
> > Amongs her peers (the women in the WPBA) she is a world-class player.
> > You make her out to be some novice who doesn't know one end of a cue from
> > another.
>
> Well among my peers in the US, I am considered a decent and
> knowledgeable 3 cushion player, but in the big picture, my average would
> not qualify me to referee a match in Japan. So I agree with you on this
> point. I just don't really consider her rank as a determining point as
> to how she plays.
Then what is? If a person's ranking doesn't mean much (and I assume the rankingis based on wins, or total earnings) then what is? Her outfit? Her classiness?
For example, Earl Strickland acts like a jerk. But only an idiot would disrespect his pool playing.
> I don't really want to take anything away from her, I
> think she is talented. I just wish she would spend more time improving
> her game and her image, because she could be an important factor for the
> future of the game. I know she loves the attention, and I think she
> thinks she gets it because people like her. In reality, they just pay
> attention because she looks good and people like to be around good
> looking people. She could continue to be good looking but alter her
> image to raise the class level a few notches. She will still look good,
> but people would add..."she has alot of class", instead of "boy she
> dresses like slut"(not really what I think...just what I have heard many
> say). I happen to think her attire is good for certain places with
> certain crowds, but not at a tournament.
>
> > Actually, Allison's popularity definitely depends on her cuteness. Although she
> >hasearned all the accolades she gets, let's not pretend that her looks have nothing to >do with her popularity.
>
> I disagree, people watch her because she can play. I am sure it doesn't
> hurt her that she is cute, but it's not as big a draw as her game. How
> about Balukas? She's legendary...and she wasn't the most attractive.
Balukas was legendary but I don't remember her being a huge tv draw. And when itcomes down to it, Balukas wasn't a real popular player. She certainly has a lot of respect,
but you don't hear the idolatry surrounding Balukas that you see with Fisher. People watch
Allison because she is a great player. They LIKE her because she is cute and
charming.
Don't get me wrong, I like Allison as a pool player. She seems to be nice, and of course
she is a helluva player.
> I don't know, call me conservative, call me judgemental...I just don't
> know. I just think she could get the respect she wants without having
> to show her butt and chest all the time.
You just contradicted yourself. You have already indicated many times that you have littlerespect for her game, and now you claim that if she would dress more conservatively she would
get lots of respect as a player.
SnookerUSA
Hey John,
Get up off of Deno's neck......
or I'm calling the rsb police on
you!
;O)
-
Bob Jewett
P Street ("Patricia A. Street", LFE...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Speaking of perception Should Bob Jewitt get his eyes checked?
: Page 56 doesn't look like JL at all, and it's not about pool.
Patrica, I think my eyes are fine -- or at least functional -- but I
did get the page wrong: it's 57 as noted earlier. BTW, I usually spell
my last name with no "i", but I'm open to reasonable suggestions.
Bob Jewett
=^.^=
snook...@aol.com (SnookerUSA) wrote:
>All I can say is I have met her and she
>is pleasant and very pretty. . . .
>
>hubba hubba.....
>
>Oh hiya honey..didn't see you standing
>there........ (Frying pan in the head).
I notice that your memory of her has nothing to do with pool...
Thanks for making our point. ;-)
Bev =^.^= clou...@NOSPAMprimenet.com
**To reply directly, remove NOSPAM from address**
Personal pool page - http://www.cloudbow.com/pool/
RSB Rogues Gallery - http://www.bayside.net/users/cbsites/rsb/
Jim Barr
Bob Jewett wrote:
>
> Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
On page 1, I have JL shooting a shot with some special effect done to the photo.
It's a full page Imperial ad.
>
> Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
On page 56, I have a Camel 8-Ball Classic article called Ordinary Heroes.
>
> Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
On page 83, I have 2 quarter page box ads and part of the Tournaments Column.
>
> Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
My issue only goes too page 104?
Were there 2 versions of the June issue of BD? If so then someone else though
that something may have been wrong with the ads. It appears that there were 2
versions of the June issue and certain parts of the country were chosen for
each. I live in the Bible Belt. Do you think this might be why I have a
different issue?
Jim Barr
Frank
I haven't seen the pictures yet, but I will and will fill out Bob's
survey and give comments on the pictures then. In the meantime, I
would like to express my opinion on every one else's opinion. You do
not know how much difference there is between a televised match and a
non televised match unless you have see the whole tournament. A race
to 9 with no 30 second clock, and a race to 7 with a 30 second clock
and 10 times more light and a DIFFERENT dress code can make a big
difference in the way anybody plays. The way you get good at shooting
under the TV lights is to shoot under those conditions often (it
induces pressure, and this changes your game. The way to overcome this
is to do it often.) Fisher has been on TV in Europe for years before
coming to the US. She was a world champion before coming to the US.
This is a big contributor to her poise and professional demeanor. Some
of you have stated she can't shoot with the men. Well, I think if she
did, it would not take long for her to be a contender among the men,
but the PCA to money was about 62K and she make about 77K, so why
would she even want to do this? She has raised the level of play among
the women, and the women are the only ones I seem to get on my TV, so
I think they are doing OK. Each individual must decide what is right
and what is not right for them as far as what to wear or what image to
project. I have met both of these women (Fisher and Lee) as well as
most of the other WPBA members. They are all gracious and friendly.
Some play better than others (kind of like the men, huh?) What they
wear for photo shoots is between them and the sponsor. If you don't
like it write to the sponsor, but my guess is there will be more
positive responses than negative ones. The morality issue is so
difficult to settle because what is absolutely unforgivable by one is
perfectly ok with another, and this can not be regulated by a third.
My advice would be 'if you don't like the pictures, don't look at
them'. You certainly have no right to judge anyone by their choice of
clothes. No, as I said earlier, I haven't seen the pictures in
question, but the magazine is not going to publish anything that is
lewd, so let's just take a step back here and think about this for a
minute. It is easy to be opinionated when you are using some nickname
(or in some cases no name). Would you be this outspoken if we were all
in a room face to face? What if Jeanette was there also? Would you say
these things to her face? If so, then ok, if not, then why are you
saying them here?
Frank Glenn (that is my real name, not some made up handle like the
70's CB craze)
Ed Mercier
I'm not sure why you think I demean her pool game because she is good looking.
I've been pretty consistent in this newsgroup stating that the only women who
can really compete with the men today is Allison. From the info I have even she
is losing to some of the stronger men players around while being given a spot.
Maybe I can't beat her. I'm lucky if I get on a table a couple times a month.
It's not my profession. I'm sure I couldn't catch a pass against Terrell
Buckley either, it doesn't mean I can't consider him an average pass defender.
(The only bigger failure in Green Bay was Tony Mandarich, but we don't hate him
so much anymore since he's gotten humble.)
The Baron wrote:
> Ed Mercier wrote in message <6mguk2$a...@newsops.execpc.com>...
The Baron
This is what a really don't understand. If she was such a bad player why was
she ranked no 1 before Allison showed up and number 2 now. How many of us
could actually beat her? the very ones saying she is a bad player? I have my
doubts. If she never played pool at a high level and was just a model in
those pictures there would be no big stink about them. When i go to work and
the ladies there talk about a football player or movie star that they think
is really good looking and the men talk about ladies that are good looking.
It's a normal human reaction to be attracted by the opposite sex.
However to demean someone's other abilities because they also happen to be
good looking is wrong. There is something wrong here. I think if I played
ametuer phycologist here and tried to guess why people are making these
comments I might get in big trouble. :)
Ron Hudson
>Were there 2 versions of the June issue of BD? If so then someone else though
>that something may have been wrong with the ads. It appears that there were 2
>versions of the June issue and certain parts of the country were chosen for
>each. I live in the Bible Belt. Do you think this might be why I have a
>different issue?
>
>Jim Barr
I swear, this thread is longer and more ridiculous than the infamous "B" word or
"S" word threads.
What is the matter with you people anyway? There were not 2 versions of the
magazine for ad censorship. It's common practice for a magazine to deliver ads
to different parts of the country for either market testing or because
demographics say the products will sell better some places than others. Many
magazines offer sponsors the opportunity to buy by geographic areas. And it's
common practice to have 2 versions of a magazine when there's a trade show going
on.
I live in Oklahoma, and I got the full version of the magazine with the ads.
From the posts, I expected to see something really sleazy when I opened it up,
but what I saw was some nicely done ads featuring a fully-clothed pool player
who happens to be a very nice looking young lady (or vice versa, however you
view it). Everything about the ads and the model was tasteful.
Anyone who sees anything bad about these ads is creating the impression in his
or her own mind.
Ron
John Walkup
Frank wrote:
> My advice would be 'if you don't like the pictures, don't look at
> them'. You certainly have no right to judge anyone by their choice of
> clothes.
While I agree with most of what you said, we certainly do have the right
tojudge someone by their choice of clothes. I have the right to judge
someone
on any basis I think is important.
> No, as I said earlier, I haven't seen the pictures in
> question, but the magazine is not going to publish anything that is
> lewd, so let's just take a step back here and think about this for a
> minute. It is easy to be opinionated when you are using some nickname
> (or in some cases no name). Would you be this outspoken if we were all
> in a room face to face? What if Jeanette was there also? Would you say
> these things to her face? If so, then ok, if not, then why are you
> saying them here?
Because this kind of forum allows us to be more honest about our
opinions. Wecan say what is actually on our mind without having to worry
about hurting someone's
feelings. Under your guidelines, there would almost be no meaningful
discussion
in this group whatsover.
> Frank Glenn (that is my real name, not some made up handle like the
> 70's CB craze)
You KNOW my name isn't made up. But it could be worse. I could be
named
"Mark Kulaga." :)
John Walkup
Ron Hudson wrote:
> I live in Oklahoma, and I got the full version of the magazine with the ads.
Can I borrow your magazine, Ron? Please?!?!? :)
> Everything about the ads and the model was tasteful.
Oh, never mind.
Frank
John Walkup wrote in message <358C7EB5...@telepath.com>...
>
>Because this kind of forum allows us to be more honest about our
>opinions. Wecan say what is actually on our mind without having to
worry
>about hurting someone's
>feelings. Under your guidelines, there would almost be no
meaningful
>discussion in this group whatsover.
First, I don't really consider this thread particularly meaningful.
Second, what makes you think someones feelings aren't hurt because
they are discussed and disected here instead of in person? This is
exactly my point. When you are annonomous, it is easy to overstate to
make your point (although I'm sure <<you>> never do this John). Maybe
annonomous isn't the right word, because some of us do put our names
on our posts, but it is still easy to overstate or say things that
would be out of character for us to do in person. I am pretty blunt in
person. This has given me problems in dealing with people, and I am
<<working>> on this aspect of my personality. Maybe that is why I take
exception to this thread. I don't disagree with everything that has
been said, I just think certain individuals are overly critical and
they haven't even seen the pictures. Sometimes in our zeal to show how
sophisticated we are, we prove how unsophisticated we can be.
Frank
John Walkup
Frank wrote:
> John Walkup wrote in message <358C7EB5...@telepath.com>...
> >
> >Because this kind of forum allows us to be more honest about our
> >opinions. Wecan say what is actually on our mind without having to
> worry
> >about hurting someone's
> >feelings. Under your guidelines, there would almost be no
> meaningful
> >discussion in this group whatsover.
>
> First, I don't really consider this thread particularly meaningful.
You certainly bothered to contribute. You must have been reading it.
> Second, what makes you think someones feelings aren't hurt because
> they are discussed and disected here instead of in person?
I never said that. I said we don't need to WORRY about hurting
someone'sfeelings. These are public figures, and so discussing their
activity is within
reason, even if it is critical..
> This is
> exactly my point. When you are annonomous, it is easy to overstate to
> make your point (although I'm sure <<you>> never do this John). Maybe
> annonomous isn't the right word, because some of us do put our names
> on our posts, but it is still easy to overstate or say things that
> would be out of character for us to do in person.
Agreed. Any freedom can always be taken too far.
> I am pretty blunt in
> person. This has given me problems in dealing with people, and I am
> <<working>> on this aspect of my personality. Maybe that is why I take
> exception to this thread. I don't disagree with everything that has
> been said, I just think certain individuals are overly critical and
> they haven't even seen the pictures. Sometimes in our zeal to show how
> sophisticated we are, we prove how unsophisticated we can be.
> Frank
I agree as well. I just don't think we need to talk about public figures
in here
as if we were talking to them face to face.
John Gateley
Gordon Matheson wrote:
> [Among other things]
> Fishing and pool I do for free.
Argggh. Tell me how. Here I've been spending a fortune to play
and to fish and you're doing it for free?????
j
Gordon Matheson
#1 Choose your opponents carefully and stop buying new cues after you own 5
perfectly good ones.
#2 Sell your $15,000 Ranger Bass Boat and stop traveling to Canada for
fly-in fishing trips. It's important you don't start counting costs till
you have a two lifetime supply of rods, reels and lures which were of
course purchased in the dead of winter.
Good Luck
G.
John Gateley <gat...@jriver.com> wrote in article
<358D5496...@jriver.com>...
Deno J. Andrews
John Walkup wrote:
> Well, that is a judgment call that I am not willing to make.
I am. I wonder what Jeanettes winning average is over Allison? I don't
think she has a chance against Allison over time. She is inferior in
cue skill and composure. Not to say this can't change over time, but
right now...it's just the way it is.
> But you just got done telling us she isn't all that good? So how is she going to > getthe respect as a player if she doesn't have that much talent?
I agreed with you in saying among her peers, she is considered world
class. I don't think she will fare anywhere near the likes of Allison
if you were to throw them in the mixing pot with the male players.
Again, not to say this can't change. Just how it is now.
> Jeanette is a big name in pool. Many people consider her a top player. The WPBA
> certainly does. What does she have to gain by going straight-laced if she doesn't
> have the talent to get respect based on her pool-playing alone? YOU certainly don't
> seem to respect her pool playing, so what would changing outfits do for that?
Well it seems as though she does little to change or improve her game.
Instead, she is involved with all this other stuff. Over a few years,
when more of the female snooker players come over to play here, you will
see her name get buried. Then she will want to play in a bikini.
> And I am all in favor of dress codes. I understand your desire to have everyone >dressnattily for big events. I think they should as well. I just don't see how >Jeanette's reputation as a pool player has been harmed in this regard if she is >ranked #2 in the world. Somewhere along the line she must have won a few >tournaments to get that high of a ranking.
I am not sure how many events she has won. It may only be one...maybe
not even. Technically, you don't have to win any events to be the top
ranked player. Obviously it helps, but it is a point system. So if you
took second in every tournament and ten different people took first in
ten different events, you would most likely be the leader in points.
> Then what is? If a person's ranking doesn't mean much (and I assume the rankingis >based on wins, or total earnings) then what is? Her outfit? Her classiness?
> For example, Earl Strickland acts like a jerk. But only an idiot would disrespect >his pool playing.
Ranks are ranks, but they are only good in their own situations. Do you
think the European basketball champion team has a chance against the
Chicago Bulls? How about the Chicago Wolves(pro hockey team of another
league other than the NHL), against the Detroit Red Wings? The Wolves
are considered World Champions...hell they are the BEST in the
world...See what I mean? Yes, she is a great player against a majority
of the female pool players, but how about against Earl? Not a snowballs
chance!
> You just contradicted yourself. You have already indicated many times that you have > littlerespect for her game, and now you claim that if she would dress more >conservatively she would
> get lots of respect as a player.
I think there are many things about her game which are inferior in the
big picture. As a pool player excluding the fact she is a woman. How
do you think she would fare if she were a man and played at her level?
Not very well. So yes, in a way, I have found my amount of respect in
her direction to be limited. By dressing more conservative, she could
take less energy putting on her obviously rehearsed game face, and
concentrate more on developing her game to the next level. If she
settles with status quo, she will just fade out.
Deno
Deno J. Andrews
Gary Robinson wrote: Her looks is the main
> point of this discussion because of the pictures BUT NOT THE MAIN
> REASON I WATCH HER PLAY.
If you had the choice of watching them play in bikini's or tuxedo's,
whcih would you choose? I rest my case.
Deno
Deno J. Andrews
Smorgass Bored wrote:
>
> Deno,
> YOU wear Versace and Fendi? Take the Barbarachnid shopping ...
> yeehaaaa,
>
> Doug W.
Send her over...There is a sale on Brioni shoes...just picked up a pair
for cheap! Actually, I just saw an Istante with a big fish on it.
Pretty cool, probably wont see that again.
Deno
Patrick Greenwald
Ed Mercier wrote:
>Sorry, I have to agree with Deno here. Don't think she's a particularly strong
>pool player, and most of her appeal is visual.
Well Ed, IMO that is a ridiculous statement. How many people in your
state tournament would beat her regularly? How much better do you think
Larry is? You know I've seen both of them play, but I want to know
what you think. What would you consider a fair spot in this matchup?
.
.
.
.
On a related subject...
For everyone bashing Jeanette in here, which started out because
of some magazine ads, that make the Sports Illustrated's Swim Suit
issue look like a low grade porn mag (IMO).
1. She is an excellent player.
2. She is a very nice person.
3. She is a very hard worker who learned to love pool and excel at it,
even though it caused her great physical pain.
4. She loves pool so much she has integrated it into her family life
5. She is a sponsor and dedicated volunteer of a scroliosis(SP?)
foundation.
For anyone to judge her anything other that excellent is a tragedy.
I read the magazine before this thread was started, and didn't pay any
special attention to them, certainly wasn't offended, and won't go back
to the mag just to "Judge" the ad again. Besides, if an excellent player
in this sport can not be themselves, or appear in ads to support
themselves. If this (ad) "disgraces" then pool will never make it. There
is no reason pool has to be *"Graced"* with Elitist, Judgmental folk,
for it to grow in prosperity. Case in Point: Basketball, football, soccer,
Snooker, Ice Hockey, NASCAR, Ice skating...........the list is as long
as all popular sports!
--
Patrick Greenwald - PGree...@xta.com
Lake Geneva, WI, USA
John Walkup
Deno J. Andrews wrote:
> > Jeanette is a big name in pool. Many people consider her a top player. The WPBA
> > certainly does. What does she have to gain by going straight-laced if she doesn't
> > have the talent to get respect based on her pool-playing alone? YOU certainly don't
> > seem to respect her pool playing, so what would changing outfits do for that?
>
> Well it seems as though she does little to change or improve her game.
> Instead, she is involved with all this other stuff.
How do you know this? Do you know her practice regimen? Who appears in more ads,Jeanette Lee or Michael Jordan? I distinctly remember Mike Tyson appearing in numerous
ads on tv, yet he still managed to train on a very rigorous basis.
> Over a few years,
> when more of the female snooker players come over to play here, you will
> see her name get buried. Then she will want to play in a bikini.
Fallacy by prophecy. You have no idea how the female snooker players are going to do,you have no idea even if they are going to come over here to play, so how can you make
this claim?
> > And I am all in favor of dress codes. I understand your desire to have everyone >dressnattily for big events. I think they should as well. I just don't see how >Jeanette's reputation as a pool player has been harmed in this regard if she is >ranked #2 in the world. Somewhere along the line she must have won a few >tournaments to get that high of a ranking.
>
> I am not sure how many events she has won. It may only be one...maybe
> not even. Technically, you don't have to win any events to be the top
> ranked player. Obviously it helps, but it is a point system. So if you
> took second in every tournament and ten different people took first in
> ten different events, you would most likely be the leader in points.
It is very difficult to place second in every tournament unless you have loads of skill. In fact,Jeannette's shooting would have to be even more consistent for her to place #2 without
winning any tournaments. And you claim you don't even know how many tournaments she
has won, yet you are willing to go out on a limb to say her playing isn't up to snuff.
> > Then what is? If a person's ranking doesn't mean much (and I assume the rankingis >based on wins, or total earnings) then what is? Her outfit? Her classiness?
> > For example, Earl Strickland acts like a jerk. But only an idiot would disrespect >his pool playing.
>
> Ranks are ranks, but they are only good in their own situations. Do you
> think the European basketball champion team has a chance against the
> Chicago Bulls? How about the Chicago Wolves(pro hockey team of another
> league other than the NHL), against the Detroit Red Wings? The Wolves
> are considered World Champions...hell they are the BEST in the
> world...See what I mean? Yes, she is a great player against a majority
> of the female pool players, but how about against Earl? Not a snowballs
> chance!
Who cares? That isn't even an issue. Jeanette isn't playing against the men, so how shecompares to Earl Strickland is completely irrelevant. Allison couldn't even beat Grady
Mathews most of the time, and here you are slamming Jeanette because she can't beat Earl Strickland.
> > You just contradicted yourself. You have already indicated many times that you have > littlerespect for her game, and now you claim that if she would dress more >conservatively she would
> > get lots of respect as a player.
>
> I think there are many things about her game which are inferior in the
> big picture. As a pool player excluding the fact she is a woman. How
> do you think she would fare if she were a man and played at her level?
> Not very well. So yes, in a way, I have found my amount of respect in
> her direction to be limited. By dressing more conservative, she could
> take less energy putting on her obviously rehearsed game face, and
> concentrate more on developing her game to the next level. If she
> settles with status quo, she will just fade out.
Not only are you talking out of both sides of your mouth, but you are trying totell the #2 ranked female in the world how to prepare her game. Clearly,
Jeannette must have been doing something right all these years. What's your
excuse?
> Deno
Billiards Digest
Jim Barr wrote:
> > Page 1, sitting/standing against the table:
>
> On page 1, I have JL shooting a shot with some special effect done to the photo.
> It's a full page Imperial ad.
>
> >
> > Page 56, in leather on a Harley:
>
> On page 56, I have a Camel 8-Ball Classic article called Ordinary Heroes.
>
> >
> > Page 83, on top of a pile of cloth:
>
> On page 83, I have 2 quarter page box ads and part of the Tournaments Column.
>
> >
> > Page 117, sitting on top of a seven ball:
>
> My issue only goes too page 104?
>
> Were there 2 versions of the June issue of BD? If so then someone else though
> that something may have been wrong with the ads. It appears that there were 2
> versions of the June issue and certain parts of the country were chosen for
> each. I live in the Bible Belt. Do you think this might be why I have a
> different issue?
There were not two different June Issues printed. June is the issue
with Paul Sorvino holding a Cigar and his pool cue on the cover. July
is the tradeshow issue - already out that has the Jeanette Lee ad's in
it.
June issue has 104 pages, and July has 184.
Hope this helps straighten things out.
Yours,
--
=====================================================================
Sven T. Davies http://www.billiardsdigest.com
On-Line Coordinator http://www.bowlingsbookstore.com
Luby Publishing http://www.bowlersjournal.com
Billiards Digest Magazine 312-341-1110
=====================================================================
Glenn
It's brilliant how this is slowly turning into yet another "Boys vs. Girls"
thread.....
;o)
Glenn
RACKS BOSS
Personally, I'd like to see Doug wear the "speedos" to the tournament . . .
;o)
Becky
Linda Moss wrote:
>i do not know what the dress code will be at the rsb tournament, but "JUST A
>GLOVE" is fine with me. do not imagine laura and becky will mind either!!!
Robert W. Johnson
Sven, with all this response, (though most of it is rediculous), you ought
to consider a centerfold. I can see it now, The BD Playermate of the Month!
You could alternate the men and the women to cover all bases. ;>))
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co., beta ID 212564
Home of the World Champion Denver Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Billiards Digest wrote in message <358E7...@lubypublishing.com>...
Laura Friedman
Robert W. Johnson wrote:
>
> Sven, with all this response, (though most of it is rediculous), you ought
> to consider a centerfold. I can see it now, The BD Playermate of the Month!
> You could alternate the men and the women to cover all bases. ;>))
Oh sure. You guys get to have all the fun.
I mean, which pro man would us women WANT to see nekkid? Not much
appeal there, I'm afraid.
Laura
Gary Robinson
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:09:04 -0500, "Deno J. Andrews"
<de...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
>If you had the choice of watching them play in bikini's or tuxedo's,
>whcih would you choose? I rest my case.
>Deno
How did we get from:
"Jeanette Lee strikes a new Low" by posing in adds in a pool magazine
and Jeanette "hurting" women's pool as a result
to:
If I "had the choice of watching them play in bikini's or tuxedo's
which way would" I "choose"
Sheesh.
I grow tired of this thread.
I have actually been trying to honestly debate an issue of how
Jeanette has or has not hurt women's pool by posing for adds and you
bring it down to this?
I am through.
You win.
I'm going to play pool and I hope tonight all my opponents are women
that beat the hell out of me for taking up for a WPBA player that has
obviously irreversibly hurt all the women in the world by daring to
pose as others do in other sports (male and female).
Only then will I be able to cleanse my impure thoughts of Jeanette
playing on ESPN in a bikini.
I will never be able to get that mental picture out of my head
(actually aint a bad mental picture to be cursed with) thanks to you.
John Walkup is doing a better job than I was anyway defending
Jeanette's playing ablitiy.
PS Could you help me get a mental picture of Fisher playing 9 ball in
a hot tub?
Gordon Matheson
Deno J. Andrews <de...@ix.netcom.con> wrote in article
<358E49...@ix.netcom.con>...
>
> If you had the choice of watching them play in bikini's or tuxedo's,
> whcih would you choose? I rest my case.
> Deno
>
I'm not sure what that proves other than I'd love to have Deno as my
partner in a tournament but I wouldn't want him as my lawyer. Whether a
spectator wants to see someone in a bikini or a tuxedo has absolutely no
bearing on the individual playing pool and she or he should not be judged
on the peccadillo's of the audience.
Speaking of peccadilloes, I just received my July BD and those of you who
were offended by the pictures of Lee need to lighten up a bit. Those were
totally inoffensive in my book. What about the cute butt in a bikini diving
into a World of Leisure "pool" table? (Page 81) That was a pretty sexist
play on words. Speaking of books, what does Mike Shamos think of all this??
He put Jeanette on the cover of his new book. (Page 34) I suppose a lot of
you think he should have picked a more homely but better shooting player
like Nick?? Go to Booth 1736 at the BCA EXPO to complain.
That begs the question, why are 5 of the top 6 players in the WPBA good
looking??? Are the overweight and homely forced to sign a contract where
they agree to dump?? Why do the handsome male players always lose in the
semis?? There's a conspiracy for you.
Get a life? No way , this is too much fun!
P.S. I would love to see Deno and the Miz playing Three Rail and Mark and
John playing snooker, all in bikinis. I'm sure Doug would volunteer as
"referee in a bikini" and hold the bets. In fact, I would pay admission and
volunteer to keep an eye out for the cops. :-)
Bev, can you work that one out for the RSB Tourney? That would be worth
the price of a plane ticket.
G.
Laura Friedman
Gordon Matheson wrote:
>
> That begs the question, why are 5 of the top 6 players in the WPBA good
> looking??? Are the overweight and homely forced to sign a contract where
> they agree to dump?? Why do the handsome male players always lose in the
> semis?? There's a conspiracy for you.
The better looking women get sponsors much earlier in their careers than
the less attractive women. It's much easier to win when the financial
burden is taken off. Ergo, I think there is a correlation between doing
well on the tour and looks.
Laura
Gordon Matheson
Laura Friedman <Lfri...@nospam.net> wrote in article
<6mm9h7$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
This is an area where men have a big advantage over women. Most of us
enjoy seeing any woman nekkid if only for the laughs.
G.
tva...@my-dejanews.com
Someone else will have probably mentioned this by the time this post gets
propagated, but just in case. . . . The pictures in question are in the (pre-
dated for newsstands) *July* issue, not the June issue. I kinda doubt if BD
has the resources to offer directed advertising.
- Toby
P.S. Well, I promised myself that I wasn't going to respond to this thread,
but as long as I'm here. . . . I am one of the lucky few to have received
his July issue, so I saw the pictures even before I read about them here.
For what it's worth, I did not find them offensive, provocative, or even
mildly titillating in any fashion. At the time I thought the premise of a
person posing with "oversized" pool equipment was kind of cute, though
overused of late. My only criticism was that they really messed up the
shadowing on the one with the pool balls. As far as JL's hand position "in
front of her crotch" in this shot, I interpreted that quite naturally as an
attempt to foster the illusion of balancing herself on an oversized ball
(well, where would you put *your* hands if you were perched on a four foot
billiard ball?). All the outfits she wore were ones I've seen her wear on TV
and in person -- which is more than I can say for that McDermott "Run All
Night" ad -- so I wasn't shocked by anything in that regard.
In this case, I think JL's bad reputation for "flaunting her assets" -- a
reputation I think she earned, by the way -- has caused some to react more
negatively than they would have otherwise.
---
In article <6mhaa8$f...@drn.newsguy.com>,
Jim Barr <jim...@sound.net> wrote:
<<SNIPPED>>
> Were there 2 versions of the June issue of BD? If so then someone else though
> that something may have been wrong with the ads. It appears that there were 2
> versions of the June issue and certain parts of the country were chosen for
> each. I live in the Bible Belt. Do you think this might be why I have a
> different issue?
>
> Jim Barr
>
> ------------------
> Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Smorgass Bored
THAT'S why I suck...... No early sponsorship to give me incentive...
Friggin' ' beauty discrimination ', if you ask me......
rack-em,
Doug W.
~>*) Big Fish EAT Little Fish (*<~
When all else fails,take my advice,
Pull down your pants,and Slide on the ice.
Robert W. Johnson
We're lucky Roger Griffis plays for that other publication! Picture that!
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co., beta ID 212564
Home of the World Champion Denver Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
Laura Friedman wrote in message <6mm9h7$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...