Drop pocket or ball return?
Bernie Cosell
what you folks thought about the question of getting drop pockets versus a
return table. I'm inclined to the drop pockets, although they're a bit
more bother than returns. Any thoughts? THANKS!
/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
ber...@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--
Jack Stein
> We'll be buying a billiard table in the new few months and I was wondering
> what you folks thought about the question of getting drop pockets versus a
> return table. I'm inclined to the drop pockets, although they're a bit
> more bother than returns. Any thoughts? THANKS!
Personally, I like drop pockets for a lot of reasons.
1)If you are using it at home for practice, it is just easier to throw
out some balls from where ever you are standing rather than always going
to one end of the table, bending down to get some balls.
2)Nothing much goes wrong with drop pockets. You can drop chalk in them
and just reach in and get it out. The balls never get stuck in the
tracks, jump off the track and all that rot that can happen with a
complicated mess as opposed to simple elegance. Simple is good.
3)When you are playing, it gives the winner something to do while the
loser is racking, he is responsible for tossing balls from one side,
loser gets the other. This is traditional and the way the game should
be played:-)
4) Drop pockets sound better (to me). The sound of balls bouncing
through the ball return sounds cheap as hell, like shooting in a bowling
alley rather than a nice pool room.
1 and 2 are the main reasons though. I also like incandescent lights,
which the socialist tree huggers have outlawed starting 2011... Thanks
for reminding me to buy a few hundred for my pool table lights.
--
Jack
Got Change: Global Warming ====> Global Fraud!!!
http://jbstein.com
PatH
I'm kind of a traditionalist. I like the drop pockets better too. I
like having to walk around the table collecting balls. I find it
gives me time to reflect on the rack I just played and what mistakes I
made. Just running down to the end of the table and dumping the balls
back in the rack doesn't seem to give me that same flow. Ball returns
always seem to be having some problems with chalk in them or kids toys
in them.
PatH
John Black
says...
> On 9/22/2010 8:08 AM, Bernie incandescent wrote:
> > We'll be buying a billiard table in the new few months and I was wondering
> > what you folks thought about the question of getting drop pockets versus a
> > return table. I'm inclined to the drop pockets, although they're a bit
> > more bother than returns. Any thoughts? THANKS!
>
> Personally, I like drop pockets for a lot of reasons.
>
> 1)If you are using it at home for practice, it is just easier to throw
> out some balls from where ever you are standing rather than always going
> to one end of the table, bending down to get some balls.
>
> 2)Nothing much goes wrong with drop pockets. You can drop chalk in them
> and just reach in and get it out. The balls never get stuck in the
> tracks, jump off the track and all that rot that can happen with a
> complicated mess as opposed to simple elegance. Simple is good.
>
> 3)When you are playing, it gives the winner something to do while the
> loser is racking, he is responsible for tossing balls from one side,
> loser gets the other. This is traditional and the way the game should
> be played:-)
>
> 4) Drop pockets sound better (to me). The sound of balls bouncing
> through the ball return sounds cheap as hell, like shooting in a bowling
> alley rather than a nice pool room.
I also prefer drop pockets. I agree with all your reasons and I would add
that its just a fact that almost all of the nicer tables I've seen have
them. Not saying you can't get a nice table with ball return but they do
tend to be the cheaper bowling alley or bar type tables. The pool rooms I
go to have drop pocket. And so you have many more (and I think better)
options if you are trying to buy a drop pocket table than if not.
John Black
Mark0
I have an Anniversary with plastic? returns. I was told that it was
unusual for them to still be viable after all these years and have used
them 10 years since. The pocket liners that feed the plastic runners are
almost completely worn out now and the nail holes have been ripped through
so many times that it's hard to find a place to nail the liners in place
where there is good rubber AND wood to hold the nail.
In July I got a set of red drop pockets and have been seriously
considering replacing the returns with them. I'll save the old liners and
tracks for antiquity's sake if I make the change.
Whattdya all think? Should I switch them out?
--> Mark0 <--
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
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Ron Shepard
<j4sj965g5aq7d6n1k...@library.airnews.net>,
Bernie Cosell <ber...@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
> We'll be buying a billiard table in the new few months and I was wondering
> what you folks thought about the question of getting drop pockets versus a
> return table. I'm inclined to the drop pockets, although they're a bit
> more bother than returns. Any thoughts? THANKS!
I think it depends on what you are used to. I mostly play in
leagues and tournaments on tables with ball returns, so when I
bought my two pool tables in the last 16 years, I got ball returns
on both of them.
As far as practice drills, I think you tend to do slightly different
things with the two types of tables. With ball returns, you tend to
stay near the foot of the table and shoot balls into the various
pockets. With drop pockets, you tend to shoot from one end or side
of the table to the other, then switch ends and shoot them back in
the other direction. I have a corner pocket drill that I do often
on ball return tables that I simply would not do on a drop pocket
table. Typically 60 to 120 balls go into a single pocket in this
drill, and stopping every 5 balls to clear a pocket isn't worth the
effort.
It also depends a little on the games you play. If you play 14.1 or
one-pocket, then you mostly pocket balls in the corner pockets at
the foot of the table. With drop pockets, that means you have to
stop play and shuffle balls fairly often as they the fill up. With
ball returns, you don't have to do that. With 8-ball or 9-ball, it
doesn't make so big a difference, but of course you do have to empty
pockets every once in a while on drop pocket tables even in those
games.
I actually have both kinds of pockets for my current table. I have
the ball return pockets installed now, but if for some reason I want
to switch, it would take me an hour or so to take out the tracks and
install the other pockets. This is on a Brunswick Gold Crown. You
might consider this option too with your table -- you might even get
the other set of pockets for free just by asking.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
BillO
news:j4sj965g5aq7d6n1k...@library.airnews.net:
> We'll be buying a billiard table in the new few months and I was
> wondering what you folks thought about the question of getting drop
> pockets versus a return table. I'm inclined to the drop pockets,
> although they're a bit more bother than returns. Any thoughts?
> THANKS!
>
> /Bernie\
LOL I never liked drop pockets, always played on tables with ball
returns, and since I get a lot of racking practice, I perfer looking
down at the return and the rack, instead of looking at my opponent, who
just won a game, as he fishes out and delivers the balls he made. I'm a
bit lazy too. When I practice I perfer to know where all of the balls
are and not have to walk around the table emptying pockets. IMHO it's
like driving a shift instead of an automatic or living without AC (my
current car is a standard shift, the last one I'll own).
--
Bill O - At the 5 Ball
John Black
I like manual shift cars better too. I don't like paying about $3000 extra
so that the car can automatically shift in a very non-optimal way.
John Black
John Reber
My 90 year old MIL just bought a new car. Insisted that it was manual.
Didn't want to learn how to drive an automatic :-)
Mark0
Ron thank you for your well thought out and responsive reply (no surprise
though). At this point it may take a hardware failure to force my
decision.
Not sure who would give me a free set of pockets for an antique pool table
(or even new liners for my return system) but I'm listening...
Do I have trouble making decisions? Well, yes and no.
--> Mark0 <-- bumfuzzled hillbilly from Chicagoland
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
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John Black
John.P...@KimmelCancerCenter.org says...
Now that's funny.
John Black
David "The Hamster" Malone
> I'm kind of a traditionalist. I like the drop pockets better too. I
> like having to walk around the table collecting balls.
I mentioned this topic to my little dog, Max who was fixed when he was
just a puppy.
Now he's badgering me to get a ball return installed....
David "The Hamster" Malone
Mail Man
I agree wholeheartedly with all of Jack's reasons, except for one silly, and
probably impertinent, reason. In pool halls and on my own table, I prefer
the drop pockets, adding to reason 2 that the drop pockets also LAST A LOT
LONGER!
But, in bars and taverns and when playing on their associated pool leagues,
I like the rail returns better. Less complication and time looking for
balls when re-racking = more convenient. Nearly all of these bar / tavern
tables are coin-op, regardless of size, which limits options to only having
the rail returns, anyway.
Also, in concert with Jack regarding incandescent bulbs, PLEASE, PLEASE,
BRING 'EM BACK!!! These new-fangled mercury-laden phosphorescent twisty
bulbs create a nasty parabolic glare in the usually-invisible colloidal
particulates in the air that often reaches nearly all the way to the table
surface.
It doesn't matter how well, or with what, I clean my eyeglasses, I often
find myself, on distance shots, looking through this haze and not being able
to see ball edges and spots very well. This works together, somehow, with
light refraction in my eyeglasses, and I know quite a few eyeglass wearers
that also have this problem. Without my eyeglasses, I do not see this glare
/ haze, and it's the same with most of these other eyeglass wearing folks I
know.
Oddly, the 4-ft. and 8-ft. flourescent lights do not create this effect, or
at least, it's not noticeable to any degree of visual degradation at all!
Therefore, since the good ole incandescents are now legally out of the
question,
I highly recommend that:
you light your table with a set of 2 x 8-ft. or 4 x 4-ft. flourescent lights
and stay away from the tree-hugger phosphorescents, if at all possible.
You can easily build an eye-pleasing box for these flourescents and have the
whole kit and kaboodle for dirt cheap money (maybe $50 to $100)-- or you can
go out and spend a bunch of money for the Diamond Lights (anywhere from $400
to $1,650), which most people that have played under them say that they're
definitely worth the money -- I've never seen them, yet, so I don't
personally know -- I honestly question the need for ANY set of lights
costing over $400 or, if decorative furniture-style, over $600.
If you do build our own, think about putting in a cheap piece of
diamond-corrugated plastic in the bottom of your light box -- you get even
better light dispersion and, somehow, it's even easier on the eyes and you
can see the balls just as well or even better! Also, if you do this, don't
forget to drill a few holes in the top of the outfit for better air
circulation and heat dispersion.
If you really must have these Diamond Lights, look around for a second-hand
deal. It seems that taverns and pool halls have been going out of business
hand-over-fist for the last few years (anti-smoking laws, police enforcing
ever harsher drunk-driving laws, and just a sheer bad economy).
Also, sometimes, another good source for the Diamond Lights might be one of
the companies that provides tables for the large casino-style tournament
set-ups of 64 to sometimes over 300 tables at a time -- they often sell off
a bunch of their once-used equipment after the tournament for a really
decent price, often 50% or more off! It's far easier and much more cost and
time efficient for them to buy all new equipment for the next tournament
than hauling all that stuff back home, which is often over 1,000 miles away,
and finding usually-expensive long term storage.
Bernie, whatever you decide to do, I wish you many hours of great
satisfaction with your end result.
Mike Collier
Oak Harbor, WA
John Black
he...@invalid.invalid says...
> Also, in concert with Jack regarding incandescent bulbs, PLEASE, PLEASE,
> BRING 'EM BACK!!! These new-fangled mercury-laden phosphorescent twisty
> bulbs create a nasty parabolic glare in the usually-invisible colloidal
> particulates in the air that often reaches nearly all the way to the table
> surface.
They are also more expensive, much more dangerous when broken or discarded
and at least so far, don't last as long. What a deal! I still can't
believe that the lunatics in charge have actually banned Edison's light bulb
with nary a peep from the electorate. It appears that more and more people
are waking oup though...
John Black
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
I'm not sure what kind of lights you guys are talking about. The
ones with mercury are fluorescent. There is so much mercury in our
environment now from coal-fired power plants that it almost doesn't
matter any more though. In hindsight, this contamination will be
viewed as one of the true tragedies of the 20th century. I wasn't
aware that there was a difference in mercury between the tubes and
the compact lights, but maybe there is. In any case, I much prefer
either 8ft or end-to-end 4ft fluorescent fixtures to incandescent
(Edison) bulbs for pool tables because the light is so much brighter
and there aren't any shadows from the point sources. But you pay
for this with the humming sound and, if you are the sensitive type,
with the 60 Hz flicker. I'm lucky that I'm not sensitive to either
of those things, so for me fluorescent tubes are ideal.
As far as long life, I think all fluorescent lights (tubes or
compact) last longer than typical incandescent bulbs. You can spend
a lot of money and get long-life incandescents (which also are much
lower efficiency than normal bulbs), but that's not what you are
talking about. Also, when vibrations are involved, such as for
garage door openers and ceiling fans and utility lights, no
incandescent bulb lasts very long, even the expensive long-life
ones. The next time I change my garage door opener lights (every 6
months or so), I'm going to try the new LED lights to see how they
work. They are supposed to be resistant to vibrations and also have
high lumens/power ratios (and with no Hg).
As far as costs for overhead lights go, I think the previous
estimates for the high end are off by a factor of 4 or so. I think
this light:
http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/catalog/light-fixtures/gold-crown-t
able-light.html
is about $2500. It is so expensive that it is difficult to find an
actual price online.
BTW, I read a while back that there is a low-voltage incandescent
bulb used in an exit light of some kind that has been working since
it was installed over 100 years ago. So if the voltage is low,
there is no vibration, it is never turned off and on, and there is
enough variation in the manufacturing process, you can get a
particular bulb to last a long time -- a Herbie the Love Bulb of
lights.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Mark0
LOL!!!
--> Mark0 <--
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
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David "The Hamster" Malone
> LOL!!!
That's a bit insensitive of you... the poor little guy had tears in
his eyes...
David "The Hamster" Malone
Mark0
That's me. As insensitive as 3 MEN, I am. :O)
--> Mark0 <-- knows what they say about sensitive men
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
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Mark0
> On Sep 24 2010 12:40 PM, David "The Hamster" Malone wrote:
>
> > On Sep 24, 9:55 am, "Mark0" <markmccau...@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> > > LOL!!!
> >
> > That's a bit insensitive of you... the poor little guy had tears in
> > his eyes...
> >
> > David "The Hamster" Malone
>
> That's me. As insensitive as 3 MEN, I am. :O)
>
> --> Mark0 <-- knows what they say about sensitive men
>
>
> "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
> the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
>
>
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>
> Get: Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
> http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
>
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I should say hung like 3 insensitive Hamsters!
--> Mark0 <-- triple dreamer
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
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