PFD Cue
Deno J. Andrews
posts just so happened to coincide with my receiving the latest addition to
my collection:
http://www.3cushion.com/On%20Line%20Collection/Cues/pfdstudios.htm
Paul delivered a first class cue, on budget, and on the exact day he
promised it would be delivered on...today. He was open and honest during
the entire process and made the design modifications I wanted exactly as I
described them. I have already ordered another cue from him and would
encourage anyone who was thinking of buying his stuff.
Let me know what you think of the cue if you like. I think it is a pretty
refreshing design...when was the last time you saw spliced two-way points?
As you can imagine, I am pretty happy with the cue.
Deno
William Lee
Almost to pretty to play with.
I like the way the points cut thru the butterflies.
Those stars at the middle tie it all together very nicely.
And the bright colors give an overall cheerful feeling just looking at it.
I did notice that some of the inlays were CNC rounded points.
Personally, I like the looks of that cue a lot but because of those rounded
points some would not and might even call the cuemaker lazy for not making
them sharp.
Not me ... I like the look of that cue and would be very proud to own and
play with something like that.
Congrats Deno and it is easy to see why you ordered another cue from PFD.
Will it look similar or will it have a totally different design?
William Lee
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:w32Bc.7022$HZ7....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
Mike Gralnick
Hey Deno. That is a stunning cue. Paul's cues are usually hit or miss with
me as far as aesthetics go, but this is a home run, no question. And if
there is one thing Paul has in spades it's imagination.
I was lucky enough to go to the Marina Del Rey cue show this past winter and
his stuff there was mind boggling. The Lord of the Rings cue was insane. I
have never seen anything so intricate.
What an treat to be in that room with so many living legends and hear some
of the stories behind the cues. Truly a cue junkies heaven. The PFD site
as an AWESOME photo section with pics of all the cues from each maker that
were on display. There is even a HORRIBLE pic of me at one of the booths.
Scary.
http://www.pfdcues.com/html/events/001/index001.html
Check it out.
Mike G. ~~~ If cues are wrong, I don't want to be right.
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:w32Bc.7022$HZ7....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
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Tony DeAngelo
I think this cue will look smashing with your Versace jacket Deno. I
really like the Ginaesque rainbows PFD does. He has a purpleheart pool
cue with this that my wife loves.
Deno J. Andrews
something very special for that cue although I don't yet know what it is
going to be exactly. As far as the CNC inlays, I believe all that was
inlaid into that cue was done so using CNCd parts and pockets. That being
called lazy is a crock for anyone who has ever tried to program a CNC and
then inlay its parts. Quite frankly, it is far easier to cut the cues using
a pantagraph than to program, setup, and be successful using a CNC for the
inlay work. I know, I did it for Joe Gold for a few years and inlaid some
very crazy cues with very little frustration. But I am still having trouble
programing even the most simple designs for CNC. In the end, the only
difference is what is cutting the pocket and the part. CNC doesn't even
mean perfection in the end, because the cues still need to be inlaid and
that's the real hard part. This particular cue has spliced points going
either direction. Those make enough points for me on a cue.
"William Lee" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:dn2Bc.11243$4g1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Deno J. Andrews
Sick but true...thanks.
Deno
"Tony DeAngelo" <aj...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:40D4FB72...@adelphia.net...
Deno J. Andrews
http://www.3cushion.com/On%20Line%20Collection/Cues/pfdstudios1992.htm
This is a cool pfd cue that I just picked up on line at auction. Really not
typically my thing in a cue, but I liked it a lot for an earlier work of
his.
Deno
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:s98Bc.1897$jS3...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
Chas
combos.
> Sick but true...thanks.
Nice cue, buddy- hadn't seen your site before either; good on yer.
Chas
Jimbo Ct
Ummmm when Jim Buss did them???
Jim <------- Few years back
Jimbo Ct
CNC and
>then inlay its parts.
It is lazy and shows an unfinished job in my eyes as well as many others.
Deno: > Quite frankly, it is far easier to cut the cues using
>a pantagraph than to program, setup, and be successful using a CNC for the
>inlay work.
Quite frankly one has little to do with the other, CNC or pantograph can use
the same cutter with the same rounded result, the sharp aspect of either is
hand done and takes time skill and shows the effort that the cue maker went the
extra mile.
Deno: >In the end, the only
>difference is what is cutting the pocket and the part.
What does this have to do with making the inlays sharp??? Both CNC or
Pantograph can cut the inlays sharp, what they can't do is cut the pocket
sharp, that takes a bit more time and skill.
Jim <-----Sharp is the right way IMO
PS Nice cue anyway
dalecue
Deno J. Andrews wrote in message ...
>Thanks William, the next cue will be completely different. We are planning
>something very special for that cue although I don't yet know what it is
>going to be exactly. As far as the CNC inlays, I believe all that was
>inlaid into that cue was done so using CNCd parts and pockets. That being
>called lazy is a crock for anyone who has ever tried to program a CNC and
>then inlay its parts. Quite frankly, it is far easier to cut the cues
using
>a pantagraph than to program, setup, and be successful using a CNC for the
>inlay work. I know, I did it for Joe Gold for a few years and inlaid some
>very crazy cues with very little frustration. But I am still having
trouble
>programing even the most simple designs for CNC.
why would you program at all?
most all packages have a CAM function that does virtually
all the work for you
Dale
William Lee
> Thanks William, the next cue will be completely different. We are
planning
> something very special for that cue although I don't yet know what it is
> going to be exactly. As far as the CNC inlays, I believe all that was
> inlaid into that cue was done so using CNCd parts and pockets. That being
> called lazy is a crock for anyone who has ever tried to program a CNC and
> then inlay its parts. Quite frankly, it is far easier to cut the cues
using
> a pantagraph than to program, setup, and be successful using a CNC for the
> inlay work. I know, I did it for Joe Gold for a few years and inlaid some
> very crazy cues with very little frustration. But I am still having
trouble
> programing even the most simple designs for CNC. In the end, the only
> difference is what is cutting the pocket and the part. CNC doesn't even
> mean perfection in the end, because the cues still need to be inlaid and
> that's the real hard part. This particular cue has spliced points going
> either direction. Those make enough points for me on a cue.
>
> Deno
> http://www.3cushion.com
True .. very true.
One more question about your new PFD cue.
I can not see from the photo but I assume there must be a trace of a line at
the point the two halves are joined together where the center stars are.
The stars would cover most of it but I can not see any line between them. Is
there one there?
If not them I am awarding extra points in the inlay and joinery department.
William Lee
William Lee
"dalecue" <pdg...@worldnet.spamex.net> wrote
>
> >inlay work. I know, I did it for Joe Gold for a few years and inlaid
some
> >very crazy cues with very little frustration. But I am still having
> trouble
> >programing even the most simple designs for CNC.
>
> why would you program at all?
> most all packages have a CAM function that does virtually
> all the work for you
>
> Dale
>
Dale are you serious?
Perhaps the high end programs ($7000) work like that but Bobcad ($500 and
commnly used by cuemakers) still requires hands on time to get a useable
program. One design I wanted required 4 axis motion and had to be
entirely hand programed to get the effect I wanted. And after all that work
I did not like the design. <g>
William Lee
Fred Agnir
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote
> Deno saz: >when was the last time you saw spliced two-way points?
>
> Ummmm when Jim Buss did them???
>
The Smithsonian Cue that Jim Buss did is a two-way points cue.
http://www.cueandcushion.com/Cues/Buss/Buss/smithsoniancue.jpg And, the work
in Buss' cue is quite a feat. Looks like a differenet approach, too. The
Andy Gilbert Cue on Dr. Wu's site is an amazing two-way pointer in ivory
with a very impressive scrimshawed viking tall ship.Also a different
approach. http://wuscues.com/AGilb/AGilb.htm
BTW, go to htttp://www.jimbuss.com and you'll see that Jim just purchased a
new toy. A softail.
Fred
Mike Gralnick
Damn, I knew I should not have paid for my cue before it was done. At
least now I know where the $$$ went. That's a sharp cue and a sharp bike.
And totally built without CNC. The cue, not the bike.
Mike G. ~~~ Runs over his opponents with a Buss.
"Fred Agnir" <ohag...@PASScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:qZhBc.83560$0y.60938@attbi_s03...
Deno J. Andrews
boring four spliced point cue that has been being made since the beginning.
Deno
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040620042406...@mb-m10.aol.com...
Deno J. Andrews
use the calculator. I think that there is value in learning how point A
arrives at point B before letting the machine do it for me.
Deno
"dalecue" <pdg...@worldnet.spamex.net> wrote in message
news:FIcBc.101620$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
William Lee
"Mike Gralnick" <chaos...@Xmsn.com> wrote.
>
> Damn, I knew I should not have paid for my cue before it was done. At
> least now I know where the $$$ went. That's a sharp cue and a sharp bike.
> And totally built without CNC. The cue, not the bike.
>
> Mike G. ~~~ Runs over his opponents with a Buss.
>
It might be an interesting story as to how Jim Buss did those spear head
inlays without using a CNC machine in the process. (if I am loking at the
right cue)
http://www.cueandcushion.com/Cues/Buss/Buss/smithsoniancue.jpg
Perhaps he used a pantograph machine and sharpen the points by hand.
Perhaps he did them entirely with chisels in which case makes it even more
better.<g>
If I had a closed look maybe I could tell how he did them.
Regardless, that is one nice looking piece of cue art.
William Lee
William Lee
> When I was learning statistics I learned the long way rather than to
simply
> use the calculator. I think that there is value in learning how point A
> arrives at point B before letting the machine do it for me.
> Deno
>
No question about that, Deno, but how many times you got to do it the old
way to learn that?
How long after you start using the machine will you forget the old way.
Can you still use a slip stick?
I once learned but that was long ago and not I dont think I could remember
how.
but I can sure give a calculator hell.
William Lee
Deno J. Andrews
Maybe you guys ought to organize a political party and have someone run for
President. ;)
I have a nice Hercek with razor sharp inlays. I appreciate what it took to
arrive there. In the end though, what really impresses me about the cue is
not the inlays but rather the construction of the cue itself. Inlays don't
have to be sharp to be beautiful IMO. But I can appreciate your point of
view.
>what they can't do is cut the pocket
> sharp, that takes a bit more time and skill.
I don't think that you are right that they "can't" do it...but rather decide
not to do it for whatever reason. Making pockets sharp is not all that
difficult to do for someone who is already skilled in inlay work. I think
it's not done because not many people care in the grand scheme of things.
If you couldn't sell a cue without sharp inlays, I think we'd see a lot more
of them.
> PS Nice cue anyway
Thanks. I like it a lot too. We'll see how it hits tonight.
Deno
http://www.3cushion.com
Tracy Beal
wrote:
>I can not see from the photo but I assume there must be a trace of a line at
>the point the two halves are joined together where the center stars are.
>The stars would cover most of it but I can not see any line between them.
I looked for that line also. I would also like to get a closer look at
the point tips (please).
>Is
>there one there?
It does appear to be one solid piece of ivory.
>If not them I am awarding extra points in the inlay and joinery department.
I am impressed with it. The first pfd I saw was in an ad, it was
malachite and spalted. I like his use of spalted woods. Give us a
review after you test drive it.
Tracy
Remove "NOSPAM" to reply.
William Lee
I think he only made one other like it.
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/DCP_0532.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/DCP_0533.JPG
They are nice hitting cues, no doubt.
Not trying to brag or blow my own horn but I sold it when I found I could
make a cue that I liked the hit of just as well if not better.
William Lee
"Tracy Beal" <tvb...@earthNospamlink.net> wrote in message
news:6dlbd05go08pppomq...@4ax.com...
Tracy Beal
wrote:
>They are nice hitting cues, no doubt.
>Not trying to brag or blow my own horn but I sold it when I found I could
>make a cue that I liked the hit of just as well if not better.
I don't take it as horn blowing, as there is no accounting for one's
taste in hit. Nobody says what they like, for fear of being wrong,
which is impossible IMO. I am surprised you were able to find a buyer
for that cue. I guess beauty is "in the eye of the beholder." No
offense (but definitely a pun) intended, that cue is "butt ugly" :-)
Jimbo Ct
Deno saz: >nlays don't
>have to be sharp to be beautiful IMO.
I agree on some inlays, but to me there are certain inlays that need to be,
points and diamonds are just sharp by definition. Many other odd shapes and
designs really don't need to be, but most times it does add a bit to the cue
IMO.
Deno: >I don't think that you are right that they "can't" do it...but rather
decide
>not to do it for whatever reason.
I was talking about the cutter on the machine, not the human running it. The
bit used in the cutter can not make a sharp pocket. When doing the OD on the
inlay it can make them sharp, but can't cut the pocket to fit the piece.
Deno: >Making pockets sharp is not all that
>difficult to do for someone who is already skilled in inlay work.
Sure this is true, but again this is a process done by hand and time consuming,
again taking this extra time to me shows a lil something extra, I am sure the
maker sees it as wasted time and feels he can sell the cue as it is.
Deno: >it's not done because not many people care in the grand scheme of
things.
>If you couldn't sell a cue without sharp inlays
Agreed, it's to bad people really can't tell the difference and are not willing
to pay the extra price that it should warrant do to that extra time spent.
Jim <---Willing to pay when someone takes the time to do things right.
William Lee
I really like the look of that dymondwood.
But then I have always liked "diferent" looking cues.
That is one of the reasons I started making them.
William Lee
"Tracy Beal" <tvb...@earthNospamlink.net> wrote in message
news:q8vbd0ljrvvh3njck...@4ax.com...
Mike Gralnick
Willee:
> It might be an interesting story as to how Jim Buss did those spear head
> inlays without using a CNC machine in the process. (if I am loking at the
> right cue)
>
> http://www.cueandcushion.com/Cues/Buss/Buss/smithsoniancue.jpg
>
> Perhaps he used a pantograph machine and sharpen the points by hand.
Bingo. Up till a few months ago that is how he did all his inlay. Jim just
added a CNC machine to his shop. Put that kind of equipment in the hands of
a rocket scientist and and we could be in for quite a treat. I can't wait
to see my new cue and the next wave of Buss Cues.
Mike G. ~~~ Cueless
William Lee
defiantly on the way.
I bet Jim is excited about it also as the possibilities are limitless.
William Lee
"Mike Gralnick" <chaos...@Xmsn.com> wrote in message
news:2jmkafF...@uni-berlin.de...
Fred Agnir
"William Lee" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote \\
> > I looked for that line also. I would also like to get a closer look at
> > the point tips (please).
I figure it's one piece. The veneers are separate pieces from each other, so
there would be a gap between the top veneer and the bottom veneer (of the
same color). That's why there's an inlay there. It's to give the artistic
illusion that the veneer continues and is attached to its counterpart on the
other point.
I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm pretty you can figure out what the pieces
look like before he assembles and turns them.
Fred
William Lee
You make it look like I said what is shown below but I have looked thru all
my posts to this thread and nowhere can I find I really said those words.
( please was the clue as I don't often use that word <g>)
Did you confuse me with someone else?
You know how anal I am about someone stating I said something that I really
did not.
No matter how harmless it appears.
Could you check and see?
Yes the way you discribe is doable.
The white material would be a sharpened point Diamond shaped inlay pocketed
into the conventional cut veneer set.
However, I have my doubts that this is what was done.
I am thinking white epoxy was used to hide the line in the exposed white
point material.
The star inlays cover the joint line of the veneers.
Interesting indeed.
William Lee
"Fred Agnir" <ohag...@PASScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:gdqBc.67361$Hg2.46183@attbi_s04...
Tracy Beal
wrote:
>The white material would be a sharpened point Diamond shaped inlay pocketed
>into the conventional cut veneer set.
It has been stated that they are structural points. They would be of a
compound angle pyramid shape IMO.
Fred Agnir
"William Lee" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote
> Fred, are you replying to me?
Nope. Sorry, it was Tracy. I just didn't delete properly.
Fred
Fred Agnir
"William Lee" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote
> The white material would be a sharpened point Diamond shaped inlay
pocketed
> into the conventional cut veneer set.
I'm thinking that it's done like a half splice, but using an "L" or a "V"
(for lack of a better term) rather than a "square" (an 'I'?) The veneers I
don't believe are recuts, but rather veneers as are done in a full or half
splice. I assume he's tried this out with maple before attempting it in
ivory.
Fred
Deno J. Andrews
> I agree on some inlays, but to me there are certain inlays that need to
be,
And that's cool. It's just that you and only a handful of others think that
way so it is typically not done.
> I was talking about the cutter on the machine, not the human running it.
I thought that you were talking about the cue maker.
> Sure this is true, but again this is a process done by hand and time
consuming,
> again taking this extra time to me shows a lil something extra, I am sure
the
> maker sees it as wasted time and feels he can sell the cue as it is.
If the maker is going to do a lil extra something, I would rather it be in
the construction than making a radius sharp.
> Agreed, it's to bad people really can't tell the difference
People can tell the difference...it just isn't important to them. I am as
critical as someone gets in a cue collector...I just don't mind radiused
inlay work...as long as it is well done.
> Jim <---Willing to pay when someone takes the time to do things right.
You mean when they do it how you want it to be done...
Deno
Jimbo Ct
be in
>the construction than making a radius sharp.
I would hope that the cuemaker has already made a well constructed cue when he
gets to this point in the process, and that would be the main reason to buy
from that maker. First and foremost should be a cue that you like to play with,
that is what it's made for after all.
Deno: >People can tell the difference...it just isn't important to them.
Most people are just not educated and I think for the most part it's the
cuemakers problem. When you claim most people don't care I agree but you must
also take into account that most people are happy with production cues with
decals I am talking about the people who know a little about cues, the people
willing to spend over 1,500 on a cue.
Deno: > I am as
>critical as someone gets in a cue collector.
I guess not from your words, but if it's a claim that makes you happy to repeat
then I won't stop you.
Deno: >I just don't mind radiused
>inlay work...as long as it is well done.
By well done do you mean smaller radius or are you just talking about a tight
fit on the inlay (no glue lines)?
Deno: >You mean when they do it how you want it to be done...
Nope, I meant what I said. Sorry you missed it. When something is supposed to
be a certain way but isn't do to time constraints or to keep costs down I don't
look at that as just another option. If I ask you to draw me a point it would
be sharp? If I ask you to draw a diamond it would be sharp? 15 years ago many
cue makers would draw in (with a marker) lines at the end of their points,
either to make them even or to give an illusion that they were sharp (on
rounded points) This was done to trick people into thinking they were done a
certain way. That to me was cutting corners to reduce costs and to avoid doing
things the right way, or to cover up mistakes, but all in the name of profit.
You may say it doesn't matter to you (or the masses) if the points line up. To
me this is the same thing, as long as people are not educated they will
continue to do this. You may not care, but the fact is it's just another cut
corner and as long as people don't see that then people will never really
understand why 1 cue is worth 5K and the other just costs 5K. When I say the
right way I do so believing that the cue maker would have done it sharp if he
felt he could get the extra money he deserves for taking the extra time or if
he thought someone wouldn't buy it with the rounded inlays. Their are people
out there who do rounded inlays that look good (AE comes to mind) but they look
good because they use a cutter with such a small radius that it's really hard
to see unless you get very close (inside a 12 inches). Now most cue makers
don't like to do this because the cutter used is expensive and when you try to
cut certain woods it can easily break. Broken bits cost more money and add to
the cost of production, so once again you have a situation where they would
like to do it one way but don't find it cost effective, again to me this is the
wrong way. But I'm not paying their bills so who am I to judge.
Jim <----Wants you to take out a pen and paper and draw a diamond, then draw a
point, if you draw either of them rounded off I guess we don't need to talk
anymore on this topic.
Deno J. Andrews
> I would hope that the cuemaker has already made a well constructed cue
when he
> gets to this point in the process,
Well constructed and going for a lill extra something can be far different.
Two different cues can be well constructed but one can be far superior. The
same goes for gunsmithing. I want the bulk of a maker's work and subtlety
to be in construction technique and tolerances, even in the inlay work.
> Most people are just not educated and I think for the most part it's the
> cuemakers problem.
I think that even most collectors don't care, and it has nothing to do with
education. They, including me, simply don't care.
>I am talking about the people who know a little about cues, the people
> willing to spend over 1,500 on a cue.
I know a little about cues, have worked for two different cue makers and
have been part of production for no less than 100 cues, mostly Cognoscentis.
And most cues in my small contemporary collection are over $1500. Oh, did I
forget to add that I don't care if points are radisued? I think you are
wrong about the majority of cue collectors. I appreciate what you want in a
cue, but to say it is the "right" way is presumptuous at best.
> By well done do you mean smaller radius or are you just talking about a
tight
> fit on the inlay (no glue lines)?
Both.
>When something is supposed to
> be a certain way but isn't
It's not supposed to be a certain way. It is what it is, there is no right
or wrong in art...ya either like it or you don't. You are hung up on one
aspect of the process and that is fine. I have my hangups regarding
construction too. Do I think that all cues should be the certain way I
like? No, cause that's "ignant" as Chris Rock would say. I would be
interested in knowing your construction technique and tolerances for the cue
you made. Is your cue going to start buzzing 20 years down the road? Is it
inlaid?
>If I ask you to draw me a point it would
> be sharp?
It depends what I draw it with. If I used a #2 pencil or even a ball point
pen, yes, it would be radiused. Even if I used a technical drawing pen or
pencil there would be a radius, albeit much smaller than the former. Almost
all writing utencils are radiused...just smaller than 1/16th of an inch
mill.
> rounded points) This was done to trick people into thinking they were done
a
> certain way. That to me was cutting corners to reduce costs and to avoid
doing
> things the right way, or to cover up mistakes, but all in the name of
profit.
> You may say it doesn't matter to you (or the masses) if the points line
up.
You are full of it- I said I didn't care if points were radiused. Drawing
in points to make them line up is a cop out. I don't see how you arrived at
me saying this doesn't bother me? Care to quote it?
> Jim <----Wants you to take out a pen and paper and draw a diamond, then
draw a
> point, if you draw either of them rounded off I guess we don't need to
talk
> anymore on this topic.
I just took out a #2 pencil and drew a diamond. The corners are radiused.
Why don't you try the same thing and take a look.
Deno J. Andrews
John Barton
because he seems to sell plenty of them over the $1500 price tag mentioned.
Apparently there is a cadre of collectors who do not fit in with the other
so-called experts's camp, the ones who, according to same so-called expert,
"know a little about cues, the people willing to spend over 1,500 on a cue."
do not fit into the so-called expert's box.
It's awfully funny that when the links to all the collections were posted a
few weeks ago that a lot of, possibly MOST of the custom cues had inlays
with corner radiuses. There seems to be a large amount of people out there
with more money than sense to be spending so much of it on those lazy
cuemaker's half-hearted attempts at building cues.
Love the irony. How any of you could embrace this buffoon's opinion of what
makes a "good" cue is absolutely beyond me. Yes, I am clouded by my
absolute dislike for him but at the same time he provides continous proof of
his utter lack of class as well as his limited understanding of the creative
process. All you cuemakers need to remember to sharpen all of your inlays
if you hope to sell a cue over $1500 to the sophisticated cue buyer.
John
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ZXABc.7488$Zd4....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
John Barton
"John Barton" <r...@jbideas.com> wrote in message
news:osWdnTegOfR...@centurytel.net...
And to continue, while I am think about it. Mr. Webb's cues appear to have
inlays with radiuses. That is why none of his cues are in Jim's collection.
Mike, there is your answer, stop being lazy (according to Jim Brennan -
remember that according to him round corners are indicative of laziness),
and sharpen up those corners and you'll have a cue worthy of Jim's
collection.
Mike, have you ever sold a cue for more than $1500 with round corners on the
inlays? If so did the person who bought it seem like a total idiot neophyte
who wouldn't know a good cue from a tree branch? Just wondering?
Jimbo Ct
Cognoscentis.
This may explain a lot, you're knowledge is based on someone who's design work
does not lend itself to what we are talking about. Joe's designs are not meant
to be sharp and again I can enjoy either style, but when talking points
(spliced, not floating) and diamonds some are supposed to be sharp by design.
Deno: >Oh, did I
>forget to add that I don't care if points are radisued?
I am well aware that you are a know-it-all so I'm prolly wasting a bunch of
time, but I will say this you can buy all the radisued pointed cues you want
and I'll buy refinished bushkas and we can talk again in 10 or 25 years and see
who really knew it all.
Deno: >I think you are
>wrong about the majority of cue collectors.
Clearly you are right, I don't think you've been wrong here before why would
you start now?
Deno: > I appreciate what you want in a
>cue, but to say it is the "right" way is presumptuous at best.
Then I would guess you saying I am wrong would also be presumptuous (at best).
I guess we can agree to disagree.
Deno: >ou are hung up on one
>aspect of the process and that is fine.
I'm not hung up on anything, just giving my opinion, as I've already said (you
choose to ignore it) I can appreciate other types of design work that involves
rounded inlays, when they fit into the design or make sense to the look of the
cue. But other things that are made to copy things that were made to be sharp
should remain sharp when the option is there. By that I mean points in cues for
all time were made sharp, the advent of machines that made the process easier
were not trying to achieve a rounded point. Not 1 cuemaker that I know of said
I wish I could make a 4 point cue but instead of having sharp points I wish
they were rounded, that would look really cool. Want my proof?? Show me one cue
pre 1968 where a cue maker took a pointed cue and with a pen or marker made the
points rounded for effect. For that matter show me one old Bushka or Boti that
has rounded diamonds in them. Surely you know these men would have been able to
sand the pointyness off of their inlays. If people didn't care or if cuemakers
thought it added to the design how come you can't site 1 example of where this
took place before the advent of the machines used to make the process easier?
Deno: >I would be
>interested in knowing your construction technique and tolerances for the cue
>you made.
I am not a cuemaker, I don't have the knowledge needed to know why I did the
things I did or the knowledge to know how things I would change would effect
the cue in any way good or bad. This has always been my argument here in
concerns to someone who builds/puts together cues as apposed to a cuemaker.
Deno: > Is your cue going to start buzzing 20 years down the road?
I'd be shocked if it wasn't buzzing now, I'd be happy and shocked if it's still
straight, if these things happen it will be pure luck.
Deno: >Is it
>inlaid?
No, I don't have that skill, all I did was put a cue together, my rings were
basic layered wood, the cue was a basic hard wood cue with a wrap. I didn't
have choices nor would I know what or how those choices would effect the cue, I
didn't design any taper, I used the taper bar available to me. Again all i did
was put a cue together, I am not a cuemaker and as to why it hit like it did I
wouldn't know or be able to change, again here in lies the difference to me
between a hack who can follow directions and put together something and someone
who is a cuemaker.
Deno: >It depends what I draw it with. If I used a #2 pencil or even a ball
point
>pen
Once more you show what a nit you are. When asked most people will make a
diamond by drawing 4 separate lines, they would not try to hold the pen to the
paper the whole time and do it in one continuous line. I am sure to make
yourself feel better you got out your magnified glass to examine the points :)
it's ok Deno I am used to your nit picky ways and have grown to accept you for
them, I am well aware that you know my point and prolly agree but the Deno in
you just won't let you do it here in public.
Deno: > Drawing
>in points to make them line up is a cop out. I don't see how you arrived at
>me saying this doesn't bother me? Care to quote it?
I never said you said this, I am saying its the same concept. If someone told
me that it didn't matter, it didn't effect the play of the cue and it wasn't
important in the overall scheme of things I would having the same debate now.
To me it's along the same lines, it wasn't your quote just a hypothetical to
draw a parallel to.
Deno: >Why don't you try the same thing and take a look.
I did I draw 4 independant lines and they appear to come to points, should I
break out the microscope for the real answer???
Jim <--------Don't be such a nit Deno.
Jimbo Ct
>inlays with radiuses
LOL I knew Mike didn't know what he was getting in to. He has now jumped on to
your list of people to stalk, all poor Mike did was to mention my name and now
he must put up with your psycho rants. Please John seek some help, you are an
obsessed stalker. You are so blinded by hate that the mention of my name brings
foam to your mouth. How many sleepless nights must you have endured do to me
beating you at VF, LOL it's a sad life you live John.
JCB: >That is why none of his cues are in Jim's collection.
What collection John?? You have been asked about this countless times now yet
you ignore it. Would you like to continue to rant and make up shit about me
that you have no idea about or would you like to prove that you have at least a
small bit of knowledge of the man you stalk? Again in case I didn't make my
challenge clear. Please show the link to the post that I made here on RSB
talking about a collection, or the post where I claimed to be such an expert (a
serious post). Please John I know you have people (Smorg,Chas,Willy,Jack,and
JAM) working overtime. Maybe you guys can divide all my posts up by year or
moth. I am sure after all the posts I've made there must me many since you keep
claiming these things as truth spoken by me. Please John for once back up
something you say.
JCB: >according to Jim Brennan -
>remember that according to him round corners are indicative of lazines
This si true, it is my opinion that certain inlays need to be sharp. This in no
way means that the only cue I would buy would need to be sharp, but it does
mean that I believe certain inlays should be and when they are not it's a sign
of a 1/2 assed job, or a cost effective move (I do understand the economics of
it). It would be like your cases John, I like American made products, but I can
see and understand why you'd have them made overseas.
JCB: > sharpen up those corners and you'll have a cue worthy of Jim's
>collection.
One has little to do with the other, unlike your post here. It's clear to all
that you are obsessed have nothing to add to this thread yet choose to do so
only to stalk a person who spoke well of me. You John are a sad obsessed little
man with no life, and it's clear for all who read this group to see. I have
warned people in the past not to cross you because you are so nuts that you
will stop at nothing to stalk them, you have no life and that gives you plenty
of time to try and make people's life a living hell, when in fact all you do is
prove day after day how petty and nuts you are.
JCB: >Mike, have you ever sold a cue for more than $1500 with round corners on
the
>inlays?
I believe it's clear to Mike now that everything I have said about you here (in
RSB) and too your face (in public) is all true and I doubt he will bite and
play your game. Obsession is a dangerous thing John, maybe a few sessions with
a qualified mental heath professional can help you through this. I think it's
this type of behavior that caused most of your life to fall apart, it's obvious
to most that a person with all your problems can't maintain any relationships
(business or personal) again I would suggest you get some help.
Jim <---trust me John you will sleep better at night, seek the help you need.
PS This is not a joke or an insult!
JAM
(Smorg,Chas,Willy,Jack,and
>JAM) [SIC (no spaces between commas)] working overtime. Maybe you guys can
divide all my posts up by year or
Missing punctuation and poorly constructed sentences could contribute to --
what do you call it again? Oh, yeah -- READING COMPREHENSION problems.
Well, JAM is in good company. I enjoy Smorg's enthusiasm for pool and humor,
don't know Chas, but his cases are -- listen here, JimBo -- JAM UP -- CHAS'
CASES ARE JAM UP -- enjoy Willee's work integrity, and admire Jack's brutally
frank retorts to clowns. Ah, great minds really do think alike!
>PS This is not a joke or an insult!
Thanks for the flowers!
JAM
Deno J. Andrews
> This may explain a lot, you're knowledge is based on someone who's design
work
> does not lend itself to what we are talking about.
Oh, I see, points in the midwest don't have to be sharp but points eslewhere
need to be. Now I understand.
> Joe's designs are not meant to be sharp...
Neither are any of the cue makers who make radiused points...but I am sure
Joe will be happy you are speaking on his behalf.
> I am well aware that you are a know-it-all
Yes, I'm the know it all but you are the one saying there is a right way and
a wrong way. You're amusing.
> and I'll buy refinished bushkas and we can talk again in 10 or 25 years
and see
> who really knew it all.
Go for it...at least I'll be able to have mine identified. In 25 years
there will probably be 25 fakes to every one authentic cue. The refinished
ones are as good as fakes. Go for it...it's not my area of interest in
collecting.
> I'm not hung up on anything,
Sure you are.
> Want my proof?? Show me one cue
> pre 1968 where a cue maker took a pointed cue and with a pen or marker
made the
> points rounded for effect.
That doesn't prove squat. All it proves is that the cue makers delivered
what sold. Today, harldy anyone cares about radiused points. If they
really did care, you would see sharp inlays on cues. But cues are selling
as is with no complaints.
> it's ok Deno I am used to your nit picky ways
You are whining "sharp points" and I'm the nit picky one...Pot calling the
kettle black.
> Jim <--------Don't be such a nit Deno.
Look in the mirror studly.
Deno
Jimbo Ct
eslewhere
>need to be.
LOL you claim to be the Joe Gold expert and yet you say this?
How many Cog's have 4-6-8 spliced points? How many cogs would you call
traditional? In the Szamboti/Balabushka sense? Your absence from the fray has
made you a weak opponent Deno, this isn't even fun.
Deno: >Now I understand.
I believe you do, but pride won't allow you to admit to it.
Deno: >Neither are any of the cue makers who make radiused points...but I am
sure
>Joe will be happy you are speaking on his behalf.
LOL again very weak attempt, very weak.
Deno: >Go for it...at least I'll be able to have mine identified.
If you start buying Meuccis I think they will be easily identified in 25 years,
the name on the butt and the low counterfeit rate will really benefit you. BTW
they have rounded stuff and really neat designs.
Deno saz: >Today, harldy anyone cares about radiused points.
Thanks for speaking for most people, that clears up a bunch.
Deno: > If they
>really did care, you would see sharp inlays on cues.
Again I'd point to business and cost effective practices. Often times paying
bills is more important then doing the right thing. But there are other reasons
a Mottey is one price and a Pechauer is another.
Deno: > But cues are selling
>as is with no complaints.
No complaints? Well then I am happy that you now admit that I am not
complaining.
Deno: >You are whining "sharp points" and I'm the nit picky one..
I'm not whining at all just pointing out my opinion. Again if a rounded point
is an artistic thing and people like them so much please show me the one
example of a cue that was sharp but through extra work made to look rounded. By
your way of thinking it must have happened at least once I mean people really
like that look.
Deno I am giving solid arguments supporting why they should be sharp, you are
rebutting with people don't notice or don't care. Can't you see that this is
not a debate, we are arguing apples and oranges. Please try harder this time.
If you want to debate me or prove me wrong stick to the topic, show me the cue
that someone took extra time and effort to change the other way (from sharp to
rounded). I can show you hundreds that go the *right* way.
Jim <------Stubborn, but on topic.
Jimbo Ct
LOL added up you guys don't make a mind. Don't you think you'd be better served
looking for the proof of my posts for John??? Or would you like to add to this
conversation? O never mind I forgot you really don't have a clue about anything
we are talking about. Maybe one of the great minds you admire so much can
explain to you what a point, or inlay is. As for the pointy part check a
mirror, you'll find it on the top of your head.
Jim <------Hopes when they explain it they use the proper amount of commas for
you ;-P
Jimbo Ct
to --
>what do you call it again? Oh, yeah -- READING COMPREHENSION problems.
Did you need me to explain any of it for you Jam? I know you don't understand
me most times and the punctuation has little to do with it, but for you I'll
take the time and explain it for you in a private e-mail. BTW I don't spell
check (as if that wasn't obvious LOL) and I believe that 99% of what I type is
easily understood for those who read without the hate blinding them (you don't
qualify in that group)
JAM: >don't know Chas, but his cases are
You've never seen one of his cases in person yet you feel like you can comment
on it??? LOL this is rich, sounds like a great endorsement, if I were a case
maker I'd love to have you as my spokesperson. BTW do you know anything about
cases??? Judging from your experience and knowledge I'd say the word *pretty*
would suit you better.
JAM: > and admire Jack's brutally
>frank retorts
You and Jack should hit it off, I don't believe either of you knows anything
about pool and I've never seen any proof that either of you has even played
pool. He does rival you for being able to misread a post due to blinding hate
though. Maybe you guys should set up an e-mail group to get this stuff off your
chests.
BTW JAM if you like to have any credibility here why don't you address the fact
that you flew off the handle calling me names in another thread and then shut
up like a little church mouse when 4 other posters (you don't hate) agreed with
me? Can you spell Hypocrite?? Blinded by hate?? LOL
Jim <-------Loves the hypocrites
Deno J. Andrews
> How many Cog's have 4-6-8 spliced points?
One (and it wasn't his blank) that I know of. Know why? Because Joe
decided that he was going to make cues of the future rather than the past.
There are more than enough cue makers making old school cues. Only a
handful of them are successful at it while others are struggling to sell
cues. Joe on the other hand is spending his spare time racing his little
race car, Ducatis, a livin' it up with all the cheese the cue collectors
have poured into his cues. I have never heard one of them say "gee, I wish
these points were sharp." The reason is that they don't care. The few cue
makers like Hercek, Szamboti, etc. who do really well making spliced cues do
well not because inlays are sharp, but because the cues are first and
foremost great cues. The inlays are eye candy, nothing more. Those cue
makers wouldn't sell one fewer cue if their inlays had radiused points
because just like today for every one like you who would pass would be two
or three who would happily take your place on their lists.
> Your absence from the fray has
> made you a weak opponent Deno, this isn't even fun.
Ok Grasshopper...Whateva
> If you start buying Meuccis I think they will be easily identified in 25
years,
> the name on the butt and the low counterfeit rate will really benefit
you. BTW
> they have rounded stuff and really neat designs.
And they play well too.
> Thanks for speaking for most people, that clears up a bunch.
They speak with their money which is spent on tons of nice cues with
radiused points- cause they don't care, like me.
> Again I'd point to business and cost effective practices. Often times
paying
> bills is more important then doing the right thing. But there are other
reasons
> a Mottey is one price and a Pechauer is another.
Point being that if cues didn't sell with radiused points, they would make
them sharp. Cues do sell with radiused points. There is little demand for
sharp pointed inlays. If more than a few people actually cared, it would be
seen in the cues, which it is not.
> Again if a rounded point is an artistic thing and people like them so much
please show me the one
> example of a cue that was sharp but through extra work made to look
rounded.
You need not spend extra time to make it round...it's the other way around.
And I'm not convinced you would recognize an "artistic thing" if it jumped
up and bit you.
> Deno I am giving solid arguments supporting why they should be sharp,
And I really do appreciate your arguments- for you. If that is what you
like great, keep buyin' em. I don't care about it and will just buy cues
that I like, and others will buy what they like.
> you are rebutting with people don't notice or don't care.
Otherwise known as the truth.
> If you want to debate me or prove me wrong stick to the topic, show me the
cue
> that someone took extra time and effort to change the other way (from
sharp to
> rounded). I can show you hundreds that go the *right* way.
I'll do that when you show me a collectible cue that can't sell because the
points are rounded rather than sharp. That's what I thought.
Deno
Bob
> "Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> news:20040621160944...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> > This may explain a lot, you're knowledge is based on someone who's
design
> work
> > does not lend itself to what we are talking about.
>
> Oh, I see, points in the midwest don't have to be sharp but points
eslewhere
> need to be. Now I understand.
Hey! Don't lump all the midwest cuemakers together, my Ed Young has
razor sharp points.
Bob
Jimbo Ct
a
>handful of them are successful at it
Thank you for helping make my point. Cue makers have a tough time making money,
they will do whatever they can to increase production and decrease costs. Not
taking the time to do something the way it should be done because they know it
will sell and they know it's not cost effective is one way.
Deno: > I have never heard one of them say "gee, I wish
>these points were sharp." The reason is that they don't care.
No the reason is his designs are not what I am talking about, you can choose to
ignore this point but this will be the 3rd time I say it. Not all inlays on all
cues need to be sharp, some designs lend themselves to sharp inlays, others are
designed to be rounded, Cogs fit into the not sharp category.
Deno: >The few cue
>makers like Hercek, Szamboti, etc. who do really well making spliced cues do
>well not because inlays are sharp,
LOL What came first the Chicken or the egg? You picked to bad choices, why not
pick a name that doesn't have a rich pedigree in the past. The fact is these
guys are well know and command high prices because they are known to do great
work, part of the great work is the attention to detail, part of that is taking
the time to do the little things right. Do their cues hit good?? That would be
personal preference, but let's not forget that many people who buy high end
cues don't hit a ball with them, so is that really a factor??
Deno: > The inlays are eye candy, nothing more.
The inlays are what makes high end cues, eye candy my ass, you can't pretend to
have a clue about cue collectors and high end cues and dismiss inlays and fancy
cues. It's common knowledge that Southwest cues are among the top when you are
talking hit, they are also very cheap in price (considering collectable
markets). To you and me the hit may be important as far as high end cues goes
it's not a top criteria.
Deno: >Those cue
>makers wouldn't sell one fewer cue if their inlays had radiused points
Now you are just speculating, you can't say that for a fact. Again Chicken or
the egg, who is to say that those guys didn't get the reputation they did
because of their attention to detail including making sharp points and inlays?
Could it be just a coincidence that the majority of the top makers do it that
way. By top makers I mean the guys with the long waiting list, the guys who can
demand the high prices. Again I will say that these guys have built a name and
a reputation and a big part of that rep is that they have attention to detail
and great designs and sharp inlays and points often has a lot to do with that.
Again do I think a Mike Bender cue hits better then a Pechauer, do I think he
uses better wood, do I think his cues are built better? I can't say, but what I
can say is that people are stacked up to pay 5K for a Bender and I can go buy
20 Pechauers in the next 2 weeks for under $1,000. I am not picking on Pechauer
here, it's just I know they have rounded points and inlays and the cues are
that"great cue" you keep talking about.
Deno: >because just like today for every one like you who would pass would
Now you are putting words in my mouth, I never said if I would or wouldn't buy
the cue. I did say some designs lend themselves to sharp inlays. I have in the
past bought cues that were not sharp where they should have been, the reasons
are all different, but I did so knowing the cuemaker didn't have that attention
to detail that I prefer. Also for you to claim that for every one who passes
there are 2 or 3 who would is you once more making up numbers you have no way
of proving. It would be like me saying for every rounded cue a guy sells for
2,500 he would be able to sell it for 3,000 or $3,500 if he had taken the time
to sharpen the inlay. I wouldn't pretend to make up fake numbers like that
though.
Deno: >They speak with their money which is spent on tons of nice cues
Can you say that they wouldn't have spent more if it were done right??? I can
tell you all the guys who do have long wait lists and I can give you a giant
list of guys not doing it who have cues available. I am not sure how we could
do this but I would love to see a list of all the cuemakers, on one side I
would place guys who do it sharp and on the other the people who just leave
them as the machine cuts them, then I would like to see which side has the
longer wait lists and which side has more of the top cuemakers. Again there is
no real way to do this, it's just something I threw out there for conjecture.
Deno: >Point being that if cues didn't sell with radiused points, they would
make
>them sharp.
Not if it wasn't an option, not if they could get them cheaper with radiused
points, not if the people making them sharp were not taking names. Deno people
buy cues with decals on them, people will buy anything, this is not a good
argument. The speed limit is 65MPH everyone around here drives 75+, that
doesn't mean 75 is right if I get a ticket I can't go to court and say it's ok
to do 75, because all the other people do it.
Deno: > Cues do sell with radiused points.
Cues sell with Decals!
Deno: > There is little demand for
>sharp pointed inlays.
LOL How would you know? Joel Hercek has a long list, Barry Szamboti won't take
an order, Pete Tascarella isn't taking orders, you can't get a cue from Bill
Schick, Mike Bender might not answer his phone, and when he does he'll tell you
3 years. I can give you list of people who were at Valley Forge who don't do
sharp inlays who took cues home with them. Coincidence??? I don't know, but I
think not.
Deno: >If more than a few people actually cared, it would be
>seen in the cues, which it is not.
It most certainly is seen, just not by you, but don't worry it should keep it
easy for you to get cues for "your collection".
Deno: >You need not spend extra time to make it round...it's the other way
around.
I understand, but you said that they made them round by design and my point was
how come some people take the time and extra effort to make them sharp? How
come you can't give me 1 example of a person taking extra time and effort to
make them round? Again I think you are trying to change the argument here. I
never once said "people" wouldn't buy cues that weren't sharp, what I said was
that it showed me a lack of attention to detail and a laziness. I also pointed
out that I understand sometimes it's not cost effective for the cue maker.
Deno: >I don't care about it and will just buy cues
>that I like
This is how it should be, but I just thought I'd help you out since you like to
claim to have some superior intellect when it comes to things like this. You
should have a trained eye if you are going to spend your money I'd like you to
be a bit more educated, just trying to help lil buddy.:-)
I said: > you are rebutting with people don't notice or don't care.
you said: >Otherwise known as the truth.
>
Again you tried to change the argument. I never once claimed people wouldn't
buy cues that didn't have sharp inlays. Not once, and that's the truth.
Deno: I'm not convinced you would recognize an "artistic thing" if it jumped
up and bit you.
Gee Deno from you that really hurts, I guess compared to a guy who wears a pink
jacket I must not know anything about Art, how long did you two date back in
High School?? Did he bite you? I was talking about inlays in cues, is this
another one of your artistic attempts to sway the argument into something that
you might know a bit more about? Want to talk carpets??
Deno: >I'll do that when you show me a collectible cue that can't sell because
the
>points are rounded rather than sharp.
I can show you many cues that didn't sell at any number of shows I've been to
in the last 16 months, would that be proof? Not really, but again please stop
trying to twist the argument, it's not about what people will buy. I can show
you cues with decals that people can't stop buying. I bet the number of cues
with decals that sold at the Midwest expo was 10-1 to the number of cues with
rounded inlays, what does that tell you??? Tells me that just because someone
will buy it doesn't mean it's right or good or anything.
Jim <----Would rather hear from some cue makers on this topic.
Deno J. Andrews
Titlist conversion. I think he's making one of the finest cues today.
Deno
"Bob" <B...@nunya.com> wrote in message
news:IcWdne0Hu6K...@wideopenwest.com...
Deno J. Andrews
> Not taking the time to do something the way it should be done because they
know it
> will sell and they know it's not cost effective is one way.
If it truly were the right way, the market would demand it from them. It's
just your preference.
> No the reason is his designs are not what I am talking about, you can
choose to
> ignore this point but this will be the 3rd time I say it.
Are you trying to make a point...gee, I couldn't tell. Ok, in your infinite
wisdom, where do we find the jimbo manual on what cue makers have to make
sharp points for them to be right and which cue makers get the pass? I
don't buy it. You don't get to choose for all the cue makers what's right
or wrong.
> Not all inlays on all cues need to be sharp, some designs lend themselves
to sharp inlays, others are designed to be rounded, Cogs fit into the not
sharp category.
And you learned this artistic reasoning where? In a pool room?
> LOL What came first the Chicken or the egg?
The chicken...or else who sat on the egg?
> The inlays are what makes high end cues, eye candy my ass, you can't
pretend to
> have a clue about cue collectors and high end cues and dismiss inlays and
fancy
> cues.
They do make a cue more pricey, but make no mistake that inlay is simply eye
candy. It would take dozens of inlays for an average cue maker to produce a
cue that will sell for what a plain cue sells for by a good cue maker. It
is the plain cue that is the foundation and the basis for price and inlay
goes up from there. Everyone can make an inlaid cue and sell it. But what
do people pay for a cue maker's least expensive cue is a much better measure
of what those cues are worth.
> and great designs and sharp inlays and points often has a lot to do with
that.
They must have your manual...
>... people are stacked up to pay 5K for a Bender and I can go buy
> 20 Pechauers in the next 2 weeks for under $1,000. I am not picking on
Pechauer
> here, it's just I know they have rounded points and inlays and the cues
are
> that"great cue" you keep talking about.
There is also a thing called supply and demand that play into the equation,
but I wouldn't expect you to ponder that when comparing custom versus quasi
production.
> I wouldn't pretend to make up fake numbers like that though.
No, you make up other stuff.
>You should have a trained eye if you are going to spend your money I'd like
you to be a bit more educated, just trying to help lil buddy.:-)
Jimbo on education...at least it's a short read.
> Gee Deno from you that really hurts, I guess compared to a guy who wears a
pink jacket I must not know anything about Art, how long did you two date
back in
> High School?? Did he bite you?
It's magenta! Think purple heart rather than pink ivory- maybe that will
help you. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality. And this line of
yours above is silly and amusing after reading about how you would like me
to be more educated. Get a book Jim, actually, two.
> I was talking about inlays in cues, is this another one of your artistic
attempts to sway the argument into something that you might > know a bit
more about?
Your chapter is becoming clear to me. Inlays, according to your genius, are
not artistic. I see. No art involved in inlaying cues. Ok.
> Want to talk carpets??
Sorry, don't know anything about wall-to-wall. If you want to talk Persian
rugs, ok.
>I bet the number of cues
> with decals that sold at the Midwest expo was 10-1 to the number of cues
with
> rounded inlays, what does that tell you???
Quit makin' up numbers.
Deno
William Lee
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
> They do make a cue more pricey, but make no mistake that inlay is simply
eye
> candy. It would take dozens of inlays for an average cue maker to produce
a
> cue that will sell for what a plain cue sells for by a good cue maker. It
> is the plain cue that is the foundation and the basis for price and inlay
> goes up from there. Everyone can make an inlaid cue and sell it. But
what
> do people pay for a cue maker's least expensive cue is a much better
measure
> of what those cues are worth.
Deno, there is a lot of wisdom in that statement.
It is the most profound statement I think I have ever seen you post.
However, I fear you are casting pearls before swine.
William Lee
Jimbo Ct
Not at all. The market is a large thing. There are people selling cues with
Decals, more cues sell with Decals then inlays. By your way of thinking decals
are the right way to do it. It's a simple thing to prove, ask Tim Scruggs how
many cues he sold at VF then ask Stealth cues how many they sold. I can give
you some odds if you'd like to bet on who sold more. Does this mean Stealth
makes cues the right way?? Why not it's what the buying public bought, it must
be what the market demands. Again I bring up the speed limit, just because
everyone is doing it doesn't make it right. Sometimes doing things right
doesn't pay off, but knowing what's right and being educated never hurts.
Deno: >Ok, in your infinite
>wisdom, where do we find the jimbo manual on what cue makers have to make
>sharp points for them to be right
Again I will say the proof is that certain guys (many of the guys people
consider the best makers) spend extra time and effort to go in and hand cut
them sharp. If there was really no reason to do this why would anyone in their
right mind make things harder on themselves. Why would a cuemaker spend extra
effort and time on something that doesn't matter to anyone? If it is as you
claim an artistic design to have rounded diamonds then please show me just one
example where a cue maker took extra time and effort to round off a sharp inlay
to achieve this "look". You can't and won't now quick get back to your defense
that they are selling them rounded.
Deno: >You don't get to choose for all the cue makers what's right
>or wrong.
Who should the market?? The buying public?? If this is so then I guess Decals
are the right way. I doubt anytime soon Paul Mottey will be going in that
direction.
Deno: >They do make a cue more pricey, but make no mistake that inlay is simply
eye
>candy
Nope the inlay is all that matters here, we are talking about inlays, stick on
topic. If the inlay didn't matter why would anyone put them in? It's all about
the inlay in this conversation, we are not talking about plane cues to play
with we are talking about collectible cues, cues done the right way that
command the high dollars and that have the best resale. Ginacue did not build
his name from making good playing plane cues, Bill Schcik is not famous for
sneaky petes. this thread is all about inlays.
Deno: > It
>is the plain cue that is the foundation and the basis for price
The basis for price is the inlays and the cuemakers name, he got his name for
attention to detail and part of that involves inlays, sure hit is a part of the
equation, but in this thread has little to do with what we are talking about.
How many good hitting Ginacue sneaky petes have you ever seen?? How many
Ginacues have you ever seen without inlays? And if you believe what you type
then why would you ever collect fancy cues? Seems like a waste of time for you,
after all they have no effect on the cue, nobody even notices them.
Deno: > Everyone can make an inlaid cue and sell it.
LOL That's a great line tell that to every cuemaker who went out of business,
tell it to every cuemaker who has cues available for sale. you live in fantasy
world.
Deno: >what
>do people pay for a cue maker's least expensive cue is a much better measure
>of what those cues are worth.
Again you are trying to change the argument all around, this has very little to
do with anything I've said. But since you bring it up I'll twist things a bit.
If you were to list the top selling cues (single cues) of all times (money
value).I would bet the majority of those cues have sharp inlays and points, is
this any indication of cue values? Is it a guide as to what people (the market)
thinks?? I'd say yes. I'm sure you'll point out that more rounded inlay cues
sell then the ones I am talking about and to that I have 1 word DECALS.
Deno: >There is also a thing called supply and demand that play into the
equation,
Sure and by all the figures it seems common knowledge that the demand for sharp
work far exceeds the rounded verity, my proof would be the guys who have the
most demand seem to use the sharp method. By demand I mean wait lists and
value.
Deno: >I wouldn't expect you to ponder that when comparing custom versus quasi
>production.
I just pulled that name out of the air, it is interchangeable with other
"custom" makers.
Deno: >There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
I don't recall saying there was, I guess you are reading into my words a little
too much. I don't judge people on their choices. That must have been a Freudian
slip on your part.
Deno: >Get a book Jim, actually, two.
I have a book, it's called Doing inlays the right way, SHARP. I can't lend it
out but you wouldn't get it if I did.
Deno: >Your chapter is becoming clear to me. Inlays, according to your genius,
Not just me, apparently the people who are paying the high dollars for cues and
the people making cues who want to have large order lists and the guys who want
to get the big bucks for their work. I think that's a nice list to be
associated with. You can be in that list of people who don't care the people
who buy the most cues, the decal list. Don't worry there is good news in your
list you don't have to wait as long to get a cue and you can pay less, I'll
give you a hint don't try to resell the cue, you may not be happy.
jim <--------Happy to be a group with guys like Lambros, Mottey, Szamboti,
Schick, Hercek, Tascarella, and Bender.
Deno J. Andrews
It's a simple thing to prove, ask Tim Scruggs how
> many cues he sold at VF then ask Stealth cues how many they sold.
Again, you go back to one or two man custom shop versus production.
Obviously you can't ponder the difference so I wont bother addressing the
issue.
> Sometimes doing things right doesn't pay off, but knowing what's right and
being educated never
> hurts.
I believe that you think that your way is right and educated. It is not. It
is simply how you like it.
> If there was really no reason to do this why would anyone in their
> right mind make things harder on themselves. Why would a cuemaker spend
extra
> effort and time on something that doesn't matter to anyone?
It matters to some, you included. The number of you are small though as the
few cue makers who do do it combined probably turn out in a year what Cuetec
turns out in a week. Yes it does matter to SOME jimbo. Most don't care.
> claim an artistic design to have rounded diamonds then please show me just
one
> example where a cue maker took extra time and effort to round off a sharp
inlay
> to achieve this "look".
Do I have to say it again, it doesn't have to be done because they start
round. If the cue makers hated the "look" they would sharpen them.
> Who should the market?? The buying public??
No, the cue makers wanker.
> Nope the inlay is all that matters here, we are talking about inlays,
stick on
> topic.
If we are talking inlays, why keep bringing up decals?
> If the inlay didn't matter why would anyone put them in?
To make a cue pretty...hence...eye candy. Get it?
> It's all about the inlay in this conversation, we are not talking about
plane cues to play
> with we are talking about collectible cues, cues done the right way that
> command the high dollars and that have the best resale.
So high end cues don't need to play well? Try running that claim past your
list of cue makers. The reason people buy high end cues from the top makers
is because they make first and foremost, the best cues available to man
(even gay men Jimbo). If the cues were crap to start, but with nice inlay
work, people would go to where the goods are. With your logic, nice inlay
work is all that demands high dollars. Nothing is further from the truth.
Nice inlay work, inside a first class cue stick by a first class cue maker
is what demands high prices. Take away the inlay work and the maker still
has a waiting list for the cues he makes. Hercek doesn't have a 5 year
waiting list only because his inlay work is some of the best in the world,
it is that way because he makes one of the best cues EVER. It is the splice
and the construction that people buy and the inlays are upgrades, expensive
upgrades, but upgrades only. However, if Hercek, or Szamboti or Tascarella
decided tomorrow to simply make four point spliced cues, they will have a
waiting list still because people want their cues first and foremost.
> The basis for price is the inlays and the cuemakers name,
Wrong. Answer me this...if cue price is based on inlays and the name, where
and how does a cue maker arrive at a price for the cues? The starting point
is the plane spliced cue, or whatever is the staple in that cue maker's
production capability. If you think that price is based on inlay work, you
are saying that the cue makers themselves don't place any value on their
construction, or the quality of their plain spliced cues or whatever. That
is dead wrong.
> he got his name for
> attention to detail and part of that involves inlays, sure hit is a part
of the
> equation, but in this thread has little to do with what we are talking
about.
I think you are way off. I think that it is a big part of what we are
talking about. If Cuetec started to inlay cues exactly like Hercek, do you
think they would bring anywhere near the value of a Hercek? I don't think
so. You must.
> And if you believe what you type
> then why would you ever collect fancy cues? Seems like a waste of time for
you,
> after all they have no effect on the cue, nobody even notices them.
Easy- I like the eye candy. It is not waste, and everyone notices, and they
do have an effect on the cue. But I have never heard anyone say gee, I wish
the inlays were sharper. Just you. Furthermore, I don't own an inlaid cue
from any cue maker I don't also own a simple cue from with the sole
exception of Hercek, because I bought one from someone and I have a few
years to go (argh) before I can have another commissioned. I buy cues from
cue makers whose work I appreciate at the base level first, and then go nuts
from there. Basically I wont buy an inlaid cue from a cue maker whose work
I wouldn't have in a plane cue. If I were to buy solely on inlay work, I'd
rather buy furniture or something else. Cues are meant to be played with,
and if the cue is crap to start, I am not interested in the inlay work.
> But since you bring it up I'll twist things a bit.
> If you were to list the top selling cues (single cues) of all times
(money
> value).I would bet the majority of those cues have sharp inlays and points
I have seen plenty of sharp inlay work in cues that have sold for less than
$100.
> By demand I mean wait lists and value.
I say the demand and list is foremost for the quality of the cue itself.
People will spend up from there because they, like me and you, like eye
candy. I would love to hear from cue makers on this point because I think
that you are wrong that people are lined up for inlay work. They are lined
up for cues. Nice inlay work is an upgrade on a cue that the same people
are going to buy regardless of inlays even being available. Cue makers?
> I just pulled that name out of the air, it is interchangeable with other
"custom" makers.
Bull. You were trying to spin and got busted.
> I don't judge people on their choices.
ROTFLMBGAO
> You can be in that list of people who don't care...
Thanks for allowing me to be on a list o grand poobah. The list I am on is
this: buy what you like...if it has sharp points fine, if it has radiused
points fine, if you don't like it don't buy it. As long as it is a good cue
stick and looks nice to you, it is worth buying. I don't have to live life
in your little deontological world where cue makers have to do things one
way to be one your list.
> jim <--------Happy to be a group with guys like Lambros, Mottey, Szamboti,
> Schick, Hercek, Tascarella, and Bender.
Well, start making cues like them and you can be in their group. Right now
you can be their groupie.
Deno
Aunty Dan
seldom differ."
--
Aunty Dan
------------------------------------------
"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoisted with his own petard."
- W. Shakespeare
------------------------------------------
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040621205455...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Deno J. Andrews
http://www.3cushion.com/On%20Line%20Collection/Cues/cognoscenti.htm
Too bad about the radiused points I guess.
Deno
Jimbo Ct
Deno: >, you go back to one or two man custom shop versus production.
>Obviously you can't ponder the difference
You tell me one custom shop that makes decaled cues and I will use them instead
of a production shop. Gee using Denologic I wonder why more custom shops don't
use decals those cues sell the most at every show. Yeah I said EVERY show.
Maybe that cleared it up, now you can address it.
Deno: >I believe that you think that your way is right and educated. It is
not. It
>is simply how you like it.
It is the right way and it is educated, as to if I like it or not isn't the
issue, as I've already said I bought cues that were not done right (sharp
points and inlays) I bought them because I liked them, but I knew when I bought
them that the cue maker cut corners.
Deno: >It matters to some, you included.
Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it mattered to me, I didn't say I
would only buy a cue with sharp points or sharp inlays, all I said was that
some things need to be sharp in a cue for them to be done right.
Deno: >The number of you are small
LOL once more you make up numbers, you have zero proof to back up anything you
say, I have given you proof all along to back me up.
Deno: >the
>few cue makers who do do it combined probably turn out in a year what Cuetec
>turns out in a week.
Again you make my point. If cuetech makes and sells so many cues it must mean
that that is the right way to do things. If people are buying them they must be
doing it right. Cuetech uses decals BTW. Thus Decals= Right. Make sense yet
Deno?? IMO you might as well be defending decals because that is what your
argument sounds like.
Deno: >Yes it does matter to SOME jimbo. Most don't care.
You are right because MOST by decals (cuetech,Stealth, Noname asian knockoffs)
Decals=Right
Deno: >Do I have to say it again, it doesn't have to be done because they start
>round.
Spliced points never start out round, why hasn't any cue maker made a spliced
cue and then gone in and made the points appear to be rounded? I mean you are
trying to say that the rounded look is part of the design right?? Why hasn't
anyone used that design in a spliced cue?? How come Gus never took his notched
diamonds and rounded off the points and then inlaid them, it is a design look
right? I wonder why he never came up with it??
Deno: > If the cue makers hated the "look" they would sharpen them.
No if the cuemaker had pride in his work and or felt he could recoup the money
that he spent in the extra time and work he would. But since most people are
not educated they either don't notice or don't care. If you asked a cue maker
(take your pick) if they could sell the same cue for an extra 2k if they made
the inlays sharp do you think any would still make them rounded???
Deno: >No, the cue makers wanker.
Make up my mind in one breath you say if the people wouldn't buy the rounded
stuff the cue makers wouldn't make it, now you are telling me the cue makers
decide. Who decides the cue makers or the buying public?? I'm confused on this
issue now.
Deno: >If we are talking inlays, why keep bringing up decals?
You keep bringing up the fact that things are done right if people buy them the
way they are. Your claim from the start has been that rounded inlays and points
are the right way and the proof is people buy them. My rebuttal is that people
buy more decaled cues the rounded inlay and sharp inlay cues combined. So again
using denologic decals MUST BE RIGHT.
Deno: >So high end cues don't need to play well?
The majority of high end cues aren't played with. I would guess the number
would be somewhere near 75% the higher the value the higher that percent goes.
3 years ago some cues sold for over 200K and I can tell you for a fact that
those cues have never hit a ball, do you think the person cared if they hit
good? I know the answer. BTW they have sharp inlays, I have pictures to prove
it. 6 years ago or so the Celtic Prince cue sold for over 100K do you want to
wager as to if the buyer cared if it hit good?? I know the answer. In the past
2 years I have been whiteness to over 1/2 million dollars in cue sales and not
once did I see someone hit a ball with any of these high end cues. Your high
end and my high end may be a bit different.
Deno: >The reason people buy high end cues from the top makers
LOL now you are going to explain to me why every one does what they do. I think
I can make the same assumption you did by saying the reason people buy cues
from a certain person is because they pay attention to detail and sharp work is
part of that. I won't presume to know why people do what they do though I'll
leave that to you.
Deno: >With your logic, nice inlay
>work is all that demands high dollars. Nothing is further from the truth.
It's not the only thing but it is a major factor. I will not mention names but
I know for a fact that there are cues that sold for more then anything you've
ever bought or owned that didn't play well and rolled bad, they sold due to the
art in them, the inlay work, and the person liked them and was not planning to
play with them.
Deno: >Nice inlay work, inside a first class cue stick by a first class cue
maker
>is what demands high prices.
Sometimes. Sometimes it's supply and Demand, some times it's pedigree,
sometimes it's just plane looks. Again unlike you I am not going to presume why
people do the things they do.
Deno: >Take away the inlay work and the maker still
>has a waiting list for the cues he makes
There are many reasons for waiting lists, with some people it's hit with others
it's just them name. With others it's just the lack of supply. Again I am not
going to presume why. I will say it's no coincidence that people who do things
right have long lists and command high prices.
Deno: >if cue price is based on inlays and the name, where
>and how does a cue maker arrive at a price for the cues?
The price of cues is a funny thing, some guys actually punch a time card and
figure out time spent as to where to set it, some guys take the cost of
materials in to account but most guys just guess as to what the market will
bare.
Deno: > The starting point
>is the plane spliced cue, or whatever is the staple in that cue maker's
>production capability.
What about the guys who will not make a plane cue? How the hell can they ever
figure out how to price their cues?? You do know that the big name guys will
not make a merry widow or plane jane or sneaky pete right? How do you think
they price their cues?
Deno: > If you think that price is based on inlay work, you
>are saying that the cue makers themselves don't place any value on their
>construction,
How exactly do you make that jump?? What did I say that would even make you
claim that? The top guys make fancy cues and charge a lot, they do it because
they can and don't have to make a plane cue. They have a wait list of 3+ years
if they decide that fancy cues with lots of inlays are all they are going to
make then that's what they will do. they will make more money and the people
will still want them. If you want a sneaky ptet that p[lays great you don't
call Ernie or Bill (either one)
Deno: >That
>is dead wrong.
I never said they don't care about the hit of the cue or building a solid cue.
I believe the top guys all think they make solid cues, now it turns into the
art and the attention to detail and getting the most $$$ for the work, and all
that includes inlays, sorry.
Deno: > If Cuetec started to inlay cues exactly like Hercek, do you
>think they would bring anywhere near the value of a Hercek?
If Hercek started to pump out 10,000 fiberglass cues with decals would he be
able to sell them for anywhere near what a Hercek costs??? I don't think so,
you must. LOL That was fun :-)
Deno: >Easy- I like the eye candy
>But I have never heard anyone say gee, I wish
>the inlays were sharper.
Then why don't you buy cues with real pretty decals on them. I have never seen
a person who bought a cue with decals say I wish these were inlays. What is
your point? My point is most people who buy decaled cues are uneducated as to
what the right way really is, I can say the same for people who look at rounded
points. I am in no way saying someone might not look at a cue and think it's
nice I am saying they have no idea what they are looking at.
Education is the key.
Deno: > Just you.
I didn't say I wish they were, why do I care if your inlays are sharp or not. I
think I said they should be sharp or they should have been done right, but as
for my wishes, I'll save them for me. I only get so many wishes (3 I think) and
I'd hate to waste one on your cue.
Deno: > I don't own an inlaid cue
>from any cue maker I don't also own a simple cue from
I'm proud of you, I guess. Is this just bragging or does it somehow play a role
in this topic of rounded -v- sharp work?
Deno: >Basically I wont buy an inlaid cue from a cue maker whose work
>I wouldn't have in a plane cue.
And this means??? Again I am not sure where you are going with this.
Sharp/rounded, pay attention, you're starting to wonder off.
Deno:
>Cues are meant to be played with,
I agree 100% but that isn't everyone's stance on that issue, some people see
them as art. Thus the Gallery shows where many cues were bought without having
hit a ball, I also know of many cues that didn't even have shafts with them. Go
figure.
Deno: >if the cue is crap to start, I am not interested in the inlay work.
But if the inlay work is crap you are fine with it.
Deno: >I have seen plenty of sharp inlay work in cues that have sold for less
than
>$100.
LOL That's funny, plenty?? Care to show me some, I may want to buy it. How bout
just a name you don't even have to show me the cue. I think this is complete
bullshit.
Deno: >I would love to hear from cue makers on this point because I think
>that you are wrong that people are lined up for inlay work.
Where did I ever say that people lined up for inlay work? I said the people
with the long lines do sharp inlay work, I said I don't think it's by accident.
I think people line up for attention to detail and part of that is sharp work,
but that's just a part of it.
Deno: >Nice inlay work is an upgrade on a cue that the same people
>are going to buy regardless of inlays even being available.
Not true at all, some people buy cues as art and some buy for investment, not
all buy to play with the cues and just because it may be the way you and I look
at it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. Some people think if you spend
over $50 on a cue you are nuts, are they wrong?? I'm not the one who is going
to say that. Most of the top collectors want nothing to do with Southwest cues
yet they have a 7 year wait list, with them it's all about the hit and the
investment, there is no set rule it varies with each cue maker.
Deno:
>Bull. You were trying to spin and got busted
Would you like the name of a custom maker that would fit just the same??? How
about Arnot, DP,Mike Sigel and Olivier. Not spinning anything.
Deno:
>Thanks for allowing me to be on a list o grand poobah.
You put yourself on the list I didn't.
Deno: >he list I am on is
>this: buy what you like.
I'm on that list also except some of us are educated and some aren't. I've said
it a few times, I'll say it again. I am not saying I will not buy a cue with
rounded inlays, but I do understand that when I do shortcuts were taken on the
cue making process. I can still like a cue even if it's not done right, and
again some designs lend themselves to rounded work, Josey, Cognoscenti, and
Hunter (bob) come to mind, now since you didn't get it last time, go look at
cues from those guys and maybe you'll be able to pick up on it this time.
Deno: >I don't have to live life
>in your little deontological world where cue makers have to do things one
>way to be one your list.
Nice try, this is nothing like what I've been talking about or what I said.
It's about the right way and paying attention to details if I like it or not
has little to do with any of it.
Deno: >Well, start making cues like them and you can be in their group.
I'm in a group that is educated and can appreciate attention to detail and
things being done the right way. I don't have to make cues or even buy them to
be in the group. All I need to do is be educated in the way that things are
done and why they are done.
Deno: you can be their groupie.
You sound more like a scorned lover/groupie who is very mad because his cue was
done half assed. I told you I love the way that cue looks, don't be angry that
every detail isn't done right, like you've already said most people will not
even notice.
Jim <------An educated consumer is the best type, then buy what you like.
Jimbo Ct
It's hard to debate with someone who doesn't pay attention. If you can't see
that the cue you own is a different style and that the style of that cue does
not lend itself to sharp inlays I guess you don't have that kean eye that you
claim to have. Again certain cues and designs aren't meant to be sharp.
Examples would be Cognoscenti, Bobby Hunter, Keith Josey. Go do some homework
and take a look at those cues and see if maybe you can pick up a different
style then say Hercek, Szamboti, Mottey, Tascarella.
Jim <------Maybe your eyes are what they used to be?
Ray Fichthorn
Ray
lfigueroa
appreciating/buying/collecting fine wines, cigars, whiskies -- insert the
vice of your choice :-)
More five dollars wine is sold/bought than Montrachet '78. People who
wouldn't know the difference, buy expensive wines. Sometimes, people who do
know the difference buy/drink five dollar wine. Some very expensive wines
are not drinkable, but collectable for other reasons (i.e.historically
significant owner).
But the bottom-line is, if you're knowledgeable enough, you know that when
it comes to fine pool cues, things like points and diamonds need to be
sharp. Otherwise, it's points off (pun intended).
Lou Figueroa
"Jimbo Ct" <jim...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040623055506...@mb-m23.aol.com...
Barry C.
I think that if it fits the design of the cue, radiused points can work. I
prefer sharp points... Sharp just seems to work in my eyes, but there are
exceptions.
I feel it really depends on the design of the cue. Maybe a simple example
would be a nice sharp four point spliced cue. Then the butt sleeve has
four diamonds inlaid.. To me, the four diamonds should be sharp pointed
in relation to the already sharp forearm points.
If the diamonds in the buttsleeve have a radius, then IMO, it's wrong. The
design dosen't fit the cue.
As far as the demand for sharp vs radiused... I think a consumer, that is
attentive to detail & design, would notice sharp points. I also believe that
production cues have set a standard in rounded points and made them more
acceptable to the average consumer.
It's obvious I prefer sharp points, to me it adds a personal touch from the
cuemaker. BUT sharp may or may not lend to the cuemakers attention to detail
or quality of workmanship.
I think cues with sharp inlays has the best of both, that a consumer that is
ok with radiused inlays will also be ok with pointed inlays. Usually, a
person that prefers pointed may not accept radiused.
Barry C. <can't inlay sharp dots
cameroncues.com
Deno J. Andrews
> It is the right way and it is educated,
No it's not, and you commenting on it being educated is a laugh.
> Deno: >It matters to some, you included.
> Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it mattered to me,
Oh, I see, there is a right and educated way to do it but it doesn't matter
to you. Who are you trying to kid. Keep backstroking.
> Again you make my point. If cuetech makes and sells so many cues it must
mean
> that that is the right way to do things. If people are buying them they
must be
> doing it right.
It is right, for their market.
> IMO you might as well be defending decals because that is what your
> argument sounds like.
I do defend decals. Like it or not, decals have been an ingluencial force
in the industry throughout time. Titlist comes to mind as well as Brunswick
cue racks, furniture, tables, etc. all of which are even more valuable with
the decals. I have no problem with cue makers using decals if it is what
their customers want. People looking to buy custom cues want inlays, me
included. But only a handful of you want sharp points.
> I mean you are trying to say that the rounded look is part of the design
right?
It is what it is Jim, there is no right...the customer either likes it or
not. You may think it is wrong and someone else may think it is right.
Taste is not something that has a bunch of rules.
> How come Gus never took his notched
> diamonds and rounded off the points and then inlaid them,
I never met Gus or asked him that question. I don't know, so I wont speak
on his behalf. I can speculate that it was his preference to make sharp
pointed inlays. Does that make it right across the board? No. Does that
make it his preference if that was the case, yes.
> No if the cuemaker had pride in his work
I know plenty of cue makers who have pride in their work, radiused points
and all. Make sure to tell them what you said next time you want a cue from
them.
> But since most people are not educated...
giggle.
> now you are telling me the cue makers
> decide. Who decides the cue makers or the buying public?? I'm confused on
this
> issue now.
Of course cue makers decide. Did you think that aliens actually do the
work? And you are confused about other things as well.
> So again
> using denologic decals MUST BE RIGHT.
It is right for them. Now you are starting to get it. Does it feel good?
> The majority of high end cues aren't played with.
Now you get to speak for the majority of high end cues? I think that you
are wrong about the majority of high end cues.
> 3 years ago some cues sold for over 200K and I can tell you for a fact
that
> those cues have never hit a ball, do you think the person cared if they
hit
> good?
Yes, I know that cue and where it went. Ok, one or two cues that havn't hit
balls. Does that same collector have a dozen cues by that same cue maker
that he will play with? Of course. Why? Because that guy makes great
cues. That's why the 200k was well spent.
> I won't presume to know why people do what they do though I'll
> leave that to you.
You have been presuming that for days now, years really. You are full of
bunk Jim. You can sit and spew out all that you have and then say something
like you won't presume...what a joke stud.
> I will not mention names but I know for a fact that there are cues that
sold for more then anything
> you've ever bought or owned
Then you don't know me very well...or there are no such names that you won't
mention.
> There are many reasons for waiting lists, with some people it's hit with
others
> it's just them name.
Can you name one cue maker making cues today that makes a bad cue, who has a
name and pedigree that warrants a waiting list? I can't.
> The price of cues is a funny thing, some guys actually punch a time card
and
> figure out time spent as to where to set it, some guys take the cost of
> materials in to account but most guys just guess as to what the market
will
> bare.
Guess? Now I know you were a business major.
> What about the guys who will not make a plane cue? How the hell can they
ever
> figure out how to price their cues?? You do know that the big name guys
will
> not make a merry widow or plane jane or sneaky pete right? How do you
think
> they price their cues?
I said the staple in their production. for example, are you saying that
Hercek won't make a plain four point with no inlay (his base)?
> will still want them. If you want a sneaky ptet that p[lays great you
don't
> call Ernie or Bill (either one)
Those cues are made by someone else. I don't really consider a sneaky pete
a custom made cue.
> If Hercek started to pump out 10,000 fiberglass cues with decals would he
be
> able to sell them for anywhere near what a Hercek costs???
Supply and demand...starting to understand the concept Jim?
> Then why don't you buy cues with real pretty decals on them. I have never
seen
> a person who bought a cue with decals say I wish these were inlays.
I have a few.
>My point is most people who buy decaled cues are uneducated as to
> what the right way really is
So are you.
> Education is the key.
I just choked, excuse me.
> I'm proud of you, I guess. Is this just bragging or does it somehow play a
role
> in this topic of rounded -v- sharp work?
The point being that I will only buy eye candy on cues that I appreciate for
constuction, hit, etc.
> And this means???
If you don't get it from what I wrote there is no hope of explaining it to
you.
> But if the inlay work is crap you are fine with it.
No, I look for perfection in inlay work. It is hard to find. Radiused
points don't detract to me.
> LOL That's funny, plenty?? Care to show me some, I may want to buy it. How
bout
> just a name you don't even have to show me the cue.
Helmstetter/Adam to name one.
> Deno: >Nice inlay work is an upgrade on a cue that the same people
> >are going to buy regardless of inlays even being available.
>Most of the top collectors want nothing to do with...
Jimbo speaks yet again for most collectors...something he busts my balls for
doing. Double standard Jim?
> I'm in a group that is educated and can appreciate attention to detail and
> things being done the right way.
Must be nice to believe that.
Deno
Chas
>....I also believe that
> production cues have set a standard in rounded points and made them more
> acceptable to the average consumer.
Mostly what it's done is make ornamental work more available to the average
consumer.
You can see the same in inlay work done on musical instruments- the CNC
stuff is common, the hand-inlay is very expensive. Same with firearms;
designs are rolled on with a press, good stuff is engraved by hand. Same
with 'custom' knives; CNC is becoming more common, and one can buy knives
with various aspects that used to only be done by hand- the machine work is
a step down if it only mimics a hand process.
The making of a sharp point is exponentially harder than a radiused one- by
hand or by machine. I'm not a cue guy; either to judge the hit or to make
the cue- but I do know about 'fancy techniques' in various materials.
I know it's a sign of the Apocalypse, and dread shall fall upon the land,
but I've got to agree with Jim at this point- as it were.
Chas
John Barton
through the Blue Book of Cues Second Edition to compile a list of cuemakers
whose work exhibits rounded inlays. All of these cuemakers are lazy
according to so-called cue collector Jim Brennan. Mr. Brennan further
states that the top ten highest grossing cues of all time would have a
majority of sharp inlays. I think that this is untrue but I have no way to
prove it.
Here is the list of cuemakers from pages 50-95 which are the color
photographs of the cuemaker's work. So-called production cuemaker's have
been excluded. I have put stars next to cuemakers who are considered by
many to be in the elite class of cuemakers.
AE Cues
Gary Allen
Arnot Wadsworth
David Barber
Mike Bender *
Frank Ball
Richard Black *
Black Boar *
Bludworth *
Jim Buss *
Dale Breland
Dan Bourque
Alex Brick
Richard Harris (Blue Grass Cues) *
Cognoscenti (Joe Gold) *
Capone Custom Cues
Richard Chudy *
Coker Cues
DZ Custom Cues
Dayton Custom Cues. (Now the book states that Paul does all his inlay work
by hand. One of the cues pictured has rounded inlays so we must conclude
that there is at least one cuemaker who makes a concious decision to round
the inlays rather than make them sharp.)
Dishaw Custom Cues *
DP Custom Cues (Dale Perry)
Espiritu Custom Cues *
Ginacue (Ernie Martinez) *
Ron Haley
Bob Hunter
Joel Hercek *
Wes Hunter
Bill Howard
Hurricane Cues (James Spach)
Hightower Cues (Chris Hightower)
JossWest (Bill Stroud) *
Keith Josey
Joss (Dan Janes) (Joss is primarily production but makes one of a kind
cues - I have one.)
Jacoby Custom Cues
Judd's Custom Cues
Kikel Custom Cues
Michael's Custom Cues
Morris Custom Cues
Mottey Custom Cues *
Stu Mortson
Bill McDaniel
Ernie Martinez *
McWorter Custom Cues (Jerry McWorter) *
Nova Cues
Palmer Custom Cues (the Original Palmer)
Jerry Olivier
Jerry Pechauer (again another production shop that makes unique cues)
Padget Custom Cues
Parrot Cue (David Hodges)
PFD Cues * (Paul Drexler) (How ANYONE could characterize this guy as "lazy"
is just plain nuts)
Joe Porper
Prather Custom Cues *
Phillippi Custom Cues
Bob Runde Cues
Ricco Cervantes
Showcase Custom Cues
Samsara Cues *
Shaman Cues
Bill Schick *
Mike Sigel
Sherm Custom Cues
SouthWest Cues * (That's right, the beloved South West cues have rounded
inlays in them - for shame)
Bert Schraeger
South East Cues
Schon Cues
Szamboti Cues * (who would have thunk it - round corners on a Szamboti -
guess Gus and Barry know something that Mr. Brennan does not)
Syra Cues
Tad's Custom Cues (Tad Kohara) *
Thomas Wayne Cues * (Oh that ever so lazy Thomas, if he had just applied
himself a little more then he could have sold a cue for more than the
$103,000 he already got for one.)
Perry Weston (from good ole' Arkansas where we are too lazy to sharpen those
corners)
Viking ( who has been repsonsible for some of the most innovative designs in
cuemaking for 30 years - but lazy according to Mr. Brennan)
And that is the list of cuemakers who are "lazy" according to so-called cue
expert Jim Brennan. For those of you who have a cue made by any of the
makers on this list I suggest you immediately demand a refund and write to
Jim Brennan post haste for a list of approved cuemakers who are not "lazy".
John Barton
ignant q-byer of qs from lazy cuemakers.
P.S. I might just forward this to the American Cuemakers Association so that
they can get their act together and put some heat on all those lazy
cuemakers.
PPS. There is at least one cuemaker who agrees with Mr. Brennan. While
disparaging his fellow cuemakers in the process this is what he has to say;
"We offer a wide variety of custom wood and ivory inlay designs. With ivory,
we offer diamonds in all shapes and sizes, spears, ovals, starbursts and
other finely cut designs. We take pride in the fact that the tips of our
diamond, spear and starburst inlays are very sharp and fade gradually into
the base wood. We feel when our customers decide to purchase ivory inlays, t
hey must be perfect, and cheaply cut pieces with rounded tips simply do not
meet our quality standards. " Apparently though customers who aren't
sophisticated enough to purchase ivory inlays aren't entitled to sharp
points.
William Lee
Bad ass that is.
Wish I could spend that kind of money on a cue like that.
I am Jealous.
William Lee
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7d9Cc.2496$E72....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
Sherm Adamson
"Barry C." <ba...@nojunk2cameroncues.com> wrote in message
news:4ZfCc.7250$Pt....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
I agree with most of what Barry says. What I don't agree with is the
contention that one way is right and one way is wrong! Or that to use
rounded points or inlays is "laziness" or "not finishing the job"! I use CNC
technology in my shop. It's hardly arguable that it can't be matched for
precision and repeatability! I also do short splices for people who require
sharp points. I don't personally feel that it's feasable for me sharpen
CNC'd points and have never been asked to do so! There are other great
cuemakers who do this, but if sharp points are important to the buyer I'd
rather make them in the spliced manner rather than attempt to make them look
like they're made in the spliced manner! On the inlays I can see some
argument for hand sharpening certain inlay shapes, especially when it's done
in ebony, which it is in most cases. You don't have to have the tremendous
skills of Edwin Reyes to make sharp inlays in ebony. The parts are easy
enough to make and the glue lines disappear if you use a little black
pigment with the epoxy when the inlays are glued in. Hardly a close kept
secret in cuemaking or inlay work in general! If you're inlaying in
something other than ebony, then it gets exponentially more difficult, and
expensive to get the same results!
I guess what I'm trying to say is there are different ways make a very
nice cue. If the basic construction is good, the appearance of the cue is a
matter of personal preference. Someone ordering a custom cue to "HIS SPECS"
has a right to expect it to be made with "sharp points and inlays" if that's
his preference. "Sharp" can also be a relative term. There are bits
available that are significantly thinner than most knife blades and can
probably make as sharp of a point as most people who "finish the job" by
sharpening them with exacta knives! The bits are expensive and break very
easily. They are also very limited in the depth they can cut so the tips of
the points are not very deep. This like "hand sharpening" them drives up the
cost. To some cue buyers, it's well worth the extra cost, to others it's
not. Most cuemakers use 1/32" end mills to cut their pockets which give a
pretty sharp point, I'm experimenting with some 1/64" bits to see how much
difference the overall appearance is. I've seen some cues made with what
looked like 1/8" radii. They looked pretty bad, but the 1/32" bits make a
pretty small radius which is acceptable to a lot of people, much, more
affordably! It's not a matter of being right or wrong, lazy or meticulous.
It's about giving the customer what he wants without him paying for things
that do not matter to him! An informed consumer makes better purchases. Ask
questions when ordering a cue. Make sure that you and the cuemaker
understand exactly what you require of him! If you're leaving thing up to
his creativity, fine, but if you have a "pointy fetish" make sure you're on
the same page!
Don't expect to get something for nothing. You usually end up with less than
something!
--
just more hot air! 8^)
Sherm
aka "cuesmith" in yahoo
Sherm Custom Billiard Cues by,
Sherman Adamson
3352 Nine Mile Rd., Cincinnati Ohio 45255
Shop (513)553-2172, Cell (513)509-9152
http://www.shermcue.com Over 20 years experience
almost a decade in "The American Cuemakers Association"
Sending unsolicited commercial email (spam) to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
William Lee
"Sherm Adamson" <sher...@adelphia.net> wrote
Good post, Sherm, I am glad to see well known cuemakers steping into this
duscussion and offering their opinions.
William Lee
Jimbo Ct
>a step down if it only mimics a hand process.
A step down is a good term, nice post.
jim <----Unlike Chas I can agree with his views and not think the world will
end.:)
William Lee
However , everything you say is dead true.
One would think that after years of arguing his point, Bimbo would come to
realize that there is no right or wrong way to do inlays and stop pushing
his preferences on the rest of us as hard fast rules. I am sure the other
cuemakers don't like being considered as lazy or half ass by someone that
professes to know more about the craft than they do.
William Lee
"John Barton" <r...@jbideas.com> wrote in message
news:FoGdnTN0qL7...@centurytel.net...
Barry C.
I should have said, it's wrong for me......
I've been using a .0156 and a .0200 bit for finish cutting on a
pantagraph.... with these small bits, it makes for little hand work for
nice sharp pointy inlays and without hand cutting, they still look pretty
pointy. But, the bits break easily and are not inexpensive, as you
mentioned.
All and all, in the end, it's the customer that decides.... and I don't
think there is a major difference of opinion between most customers.
Barry C.
cameroncues.com
"Sherm Adamson" <sher...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:DvGdnULJfam...@adelphia.com...
Jimbo Ct
matter
>to you. Who are you trying to kid. Keep backstroking.
Where did I backstroke? I never once said I would ONLY buy a cue with sharp
inlays. I can show you where I said over and over it depends on the design.
Some things work rounded some don't that would be a matter of taste, but that
doesn't change my views on the sharp thing.
Deno: >It is right, for their market.
Again doing things because you can keep your costs down and increase your
market doesn't make it the right thing to do, it makes it good for business but
often times "right for business" doesn't mean the right way.
Deno: >
>I do defend decals. Like it or not, decals have been an ingluencial force
>in the industry throughout time. Titlist comes to mind as well as Brunswick
This may be the worst attempt to twist something I've said. I am talking about
cheap knockoff $25 cues that have points and inlay decals. Things that people
who don't even know what the word point (when talking cues) means.
Deno: >I have no problem with cue makers using decals
I'm sure you don't.
Deno: >But only a handful of you want sharp points.
>
Where is your proof that only a handfull want it? I can easily use your logic
and claim tha the reason why some people have a big wait list is due to sharp
inlay work. That would be generalizing and that's more what you do.
Deno: >It is what it is Jim, there is no right...the customer either likes it
or
>not.
The consumer has proven that he likes decals, IMO that is wrong and they need
to at least understand the difference. You seem to know the difference but
since you have made misstakes in the past you now feel a need to defend your
purchases.
Deno: > You may think it is wrong and someone else may think it is right.
Again some think decals are right, some have no idea there is a difference what
the difference is or what amount of work it takes between the 2.
Deno: >Make sure to tell them what you said next time you want a cue from
>them.
I know going in what type of work the person does, I would only buy a cue that
I felt wasn't done the right way if the price was right or it hit great. If I
am buying from the maker I make sure to express my views before we get that
far.
Deno: >giggle.
You may giggle all you want but the majority of cues are bought by league
players and are under $100, these people have no idea if the points on the cue
they just bought are stuck on, inlaid or spliced. Before cue makers can get the
$$$ they deserve for doing good work these masses need to be educated. For you
to not understand this is sad, the cue makers understand it.
Deno: >Now you get to speak for the majority of high end cues?
I'm not speaking for any cues, just telling you the facts as I have seen them.
You may think I am wrong but I am not. I would say that most cues that cost
over $7,500 either hit balls less then 10 times or never at all. if you think
people are walking around playing with 10K cues you're uninformed (again). BTW
this doesn't ount older cues that have gone up in value, many people still play
with Bushkas and Botis that are very valuable.
Deno:
>Then you don't know me very well...
I know the industry well enough to know what I said was true.
Deno: >Can you name one cue maker making cues today that makes a bad cue, who
has a
>name and pedigree that warrants a waiting list?
Yes, but I won't mention a name.
Deno: >Guess? Now I know you were a business major.
>
Knowing the way it works has more to do with the buyers and the industry and
less to do with Business.
Deno: >are you saying that
>Hercek won't make a plain four point with no inlay
Did I say that? Can you read? If so why would you ask if that's what I said? I
didn't mention names but yes there are guys out there who no longer make plane
cues, if they did the cost would make it a foolish move to buy it.
Deno: >I have a few.
Well after hearing you twist this and getting to learn some of what's in your
head I can imagine that you may have been tricked once or twice, ask more
questions next time.
Deno: >The point being that I will only buy eye candy on cues that I appreciate
for
>constuction, hit, etc.
Hit is subjective, what you consider to be a greta hit someone else may hate.
this is where personal tastes come into play.
Deno: >If you don't get it from what I wrote there is no hope of explaining it
to
>you.
I agree, so I guess I'll be done with you on this topic, I look forward to more
educated people weighing in.
Deno: >Helmstetter/Adam to name one.
>
Asian knockoffs, please send me some pics of these sharp inaly cues, maybe I'll
buy them for under $100.
Deno: >Jimbo speaks yet again for most collectors.
I happen to know many, I also happen to know when many of them met and talked
right in your back yard you weren't there, maybe you don't know as much about
them as you think you do.
Jim <----Done with Deno for now.
Steve Ellis
>Don't forget the rest of the quote: "Great minds think alike, but fools
>seldom differ."
I didn't know that ... that does make an entirely different point than the first half by
itself.
Deno J. Andrews
> I would say that most cues that cost over $7,500 either hit balls less
then 10 times or never at all.
Ah, and I think you would be wrong and you obviously haven't a clue.
> if you think people are walking around playing with 10K cues you're
uninformed (again).
I have seen it happen probably as many times as you have seen it not happen.
I don't know how much time you have spent building high end cues, but I used
to see them fly out the door into peoples' hands who loved nothing more than
to play with them. 10K to you is high end. But there are plenty of people
out there who spend 10K like we spend 1k and think nothing of it. Unlike
you, not all cues have to be an investment in dollars. Many invest in fun
because it is typically worth more for someone who doesn't have to make a
profit on a cue to feel like a man. The buyers I saw and got to know bought
cues in that category and overwhelmingly played with them, because 10K isn't
that much money for them. These are people who drive $200,000 autos for
kicks jimbo...why the hell would they panic over using a measly 10K cue
stick? I know you don't get it. Travel a little and see how the rest of
the world lives Jim- it ain't all Connecticut.
> I know the industry well enough to know what I said was true.
That's a laugh...
> Yes, but I won't mention a name.
The BS meter just went bust. You wish.
> Knowing the way it works has more to do with the buyers and the industry
and
> less to do with Business.
Yes, in your "educated" world business has nothing to do with anything.
Prices are just "guessed" and people are all brilliant. Not! Jimbo, the
way it works when there is commerce is supply and demand. That is an
economic phenominon that is, uh, business related.
> I didn't mention names but yes there are guys out there who no longer make
plane
> cues, if they did the cost would make it a foolish move to buy it.
Who?
> Hit is subjective, what you consider to be a greta hit someone else may
hate.
> this is where personal tastes come into play.
Ring-a-ling-a-ling...the bells are going off...so are inlay designs genius.
Frankly I find diamonds a bit...I don't know...20th century. I don't know
if I would ever buy a cue with diamond inlays unless it was an older cue.
Frankly, it is one of the most uninspired of all design attributes with what
is possible today. Do I think it is wrong to make them? No. I just don't
like them.
> Asian knockoffs, please send me some pics of these sharp inaly cues, maybe
I'll
> buy them for under $100.
There are Lucasis on cueauctions.com as we speak that fit the bill. Do an
ebay search and there will be cues with sharp inlays for $100 or less. Oh,
and does the sharp thing not count in Asian-made cues? I know of some
Korean carom cues that sell for about $25 with sharp inlays too. I can't
say the name because it looks like geometry to me, but you can find them at
the next trade show.
> I happen to know many, I also happen to know when many of them met and
talked
> right in your back yard you weren't there, maybe you don't know as much
about
> them as you think you do.
Oooooohhh, Jimbo the illuminatus...part of the secret society of cue
collectors...or is it groupie to the society members? Which is it? Jimbo,
I don't care who met in my back yard, unless it was literally my back yard,
which isn't big enough for a cue collector's party. IF you are sooooo
important why weren't you there? What did they talk about? Actually, don't
answer because I really don't care.
Jimbo, it's easy...I buy what I like. I don't subscribe to any of your
wacko rules of this and that. I'm more interested in how the cue plays and
how well it is constructed. After all, they are cues. I am sure not to
lose sight of that fact. Some may think they are the equivalent to
paintings on the wall, but they are not. They are an art form, but most of
the worth to me is in how well they perform the function they were designed
to perform. If that means playing well and looking good, then great. If it
means looking great but playing like hell...not interested. I buy cars to
drive, wine to drink (mostly the $10-$14 kinds, Lou knows, the good stuff to
drink), books to read, etc. Do I buy cues to hang on the wall...at about
the same rate I buy Picasso drawings with which to go play billiards. You
see value as strictly dollars. I see that as a miserable existence.
I appreciate the hard work it takes for a cue maker to do sharp inlays. I
even appreciate that it is your preference. But declaring radiused points
as not being right is just plain ignorant. Enough said.
Deno
Jimbo Ct
>according to so-called cue collector Jim Brennan.
So called?? John how many times will you throw out uneducated accusations?
Please show any post where I claim to be an expert or a collector. You are so
called sane, but that opinion isn't help by anyone outside your house and I'd
bet some inside might think otherwise.
JCB: >Mr. Brennan further
>states
My father doesn't post here, but you can call me JimBo. When I sign my posts
Jim Brennan feel free to use that name here, until then I'd say stick with
JimBoCt or JimBo so we know who you are talking about.
JCB: > the top ten highest grossing cues of all time would have a
>majority of sharp inlays.
You's have to know what the top 10 cues are and I happen to know at least 7 of
them, the list could change day to day, but most on the list are older Botis
and Bushkas and throw in some of TW's work.
JCB: >I think that this is untrue but I have no way to
>prove it.
If you don't have a clue why bring it up?? I'm sorry I guess you brought it up
to prove that you have no clue.
John gave a list of cuemakers he claims do rounded inlays and points. I will go
over the list and pull a few out who do sharp inlays that he included.
>Mike Bender *<---Sharp
>Richard Black *<----Sharp
>Black Boar *<---Sharp
>Espiritu Custom Cues *<---Sharp
>Joel Hercek <---Sharp
>Judd's Custom Cues<---Sharp
>Morris Custom Cues<---Sharp
>Mottey Custom Cues *<---Sharp
>Palmer Custom Cues (the Original Palmer)<---Sharp
>Samsara Cues *<---These guys have made about 10 drop in cues, how you can add
them to your list is a joke.
I could go on but I'm bored with it. Many people have made cues with rounded
inlays in the past. I have also said that some designs lend themselves to
rounded stuff, I have also pointed out that sometimes people do the rounded
stuff right (AE for 1) but for the most part you're are obsessed and nuts. In
an attempt to go after me in just one more post you made a fool of yourself.
You have added people to this list that do sharp inlays to show 1 example of
rounded work from 10 years ago is laughable. All people start off either as
young cue makers or old guys with new technology and equipment and they have a
learning curve. Some of those choose to take the new stuff and in time learn to
use it right. To say Barry Szamboti or Joel Hercek does rounded inlays is not
true and to point out a few examples from their past is a joke. But again you
don't care how weak the argument is as long as it's anti jimbo. Nice try
Johnny.
JCB:
>Thomas Wayne Cues * (Oh that ever so lazy Thomas, if he had just applied
>himself a little more then he could have sold a cue for more than the
>$103,000 he already got for one.)
Thomas does sharp inlay work and out of everyone on this list he is the one guy
who has many designs that don't lend themselves to being sharp, again if it's
something you and deno can't see I doubt I'd be able to explain it.
JCB: >And that is the list of cuemakers who are "lazy" according to so-called
cue
>expert Jim Brennan.
If you don't think they are lazy please tell me what you consider someone who
takes the time and effort to hand cut sharp inlays is?? When you come up with a
term find the opposite of it and apply it, maybe Lazy was a bad choice of
words, but IMO it fits. And once more I will ask what SO CALLED means? Who ever
called me an expert?
JCB: > I might just forward this to the American Cuemakers Association
Feel free I give my opinion here and I stand by it. I have no problem saying
anything I've said to a cue makers face. This is my opinion and many educated
cue collectors as well. I'm sorry that you don't agree, we can just add it to
the list of things you and I disagree with.
I have said it many times, you can skirt the issues and nit pick what I said
but you will never change my opinion. People who do sharp inlays go an extra
mile. They spend more time and effort on the cue and in their work. For anyone
to disagree with what I have said you will need to put up a good argument
against me. So please take the other side of the cue and explain it to me. Why
would a person spend so much extra effort to do something that they didn't
think was right? Attention to detail John I am shocked that someone who has
made the claims here you have in the past doesn't understand this. Do you think
that these guys who do sharp inlays are all stupid? I mean they must be they
are doing extra work and as Deno puts it nobody knows or cares, why the hell
would they do it??
I never said that every cue had to be sharp, the way you made that list I can
do the same list and for every cuemaker I see who has done 1 sharp inlay I can
add them, but that's only when I am trying to be like you. Your hate shines
through and it really detracts from any of the good stuff you have to add.
Quote unknown person who John is trolling with: >We take pride in the fact that
the tips of our
>diamond, spear and starburst inlays are very sharp and fade gradually into
>the base wood.
WOW!!! He must be nuts, why would he take pride in something nobody cares
about? How can that be something to take pride in?? And BTW John No I don't
want to know who said it, we all know you're dying for me to ask so you can
make a point in another attack filled post.
Jim <---Thinks you should throw out your BBII it's old outdated and filled with
bad info
lfigueroa
So glad your English gas improved. Have fun using it in my Bozo Bin :-)
Lou Figueroa
<DI...@MYMOMSHOUSE.COM> wrote in message news:40d9bdb2$1...@Usenet.com...
> WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW YOU STUPID SHIT. WINE CIGARS WHISKIES ARE ALL
> CONSUMABLE PRODUCTS YOU STUPID FUCK. WHAT, YOU GONNA START SMOKIN YOUR CUE
> STICK FUCKLY?
>
>
> On 23-Jun-2004, "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > From: "lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net>
> > Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
> > References: <z55Cc.8159$%C4....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
> > <20040623055506...@mb-m23.aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: PFD Cue
> > Lines: 414
> > X-Priority: 3
> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
> > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
> > Message-ID: <yzfCc.121202$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 9a1aef7abcffdc8ec71b8c87ca629736
> > X-Complaints-To: ab...@worldnet.att.net
> > X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1087997278
> > 9a1aef7abcffdc8ec71b8c87ca629736 (Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:27:58 GMT)
> > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:27:58 GMT
> > Organization: AT&T Worldnet
> > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:27:58 GMT
> > Path:
> >
text-west!propagator-lax.newsfeeds.com!feed-lax.newsfeeds.com!border2.nntp.s
jc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!
nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.n
et.POSTED!8e4bae94!not-for-mail
> > Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.sport.billiard:237136
> >
> > IMO, appreciating/buying/collecting fine pool cues is a lot like
> > appreciating/buying/collecting fine wines, cigars, whiskies -- insert
> > the
> > vice of your choice :-)
> >
> > More five dollars wine is sold/bought than Montrachet '78. People who
> > wouldn't know the difference, buy expensive wines. Sometimes, people
who
> > do
> > know the difference buy/drink five dollar wine. Some very expensive
wines
> > are not drinkable, but collectable for other reasons (i.e.historically
> > significant owner).
> >
> > But the bottom-line is, if you're knowledgeable enough, you know that
when
> > it comes to fine pool cues, things like points and diamonds need to be
> > sharp. Otherwise, it's points off (pun intended).
> >
> > Lou Figueroa
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com
Jimbo Ct
>pantagraph.... with these small bits, it makes for little hand work for
>nice sharp pointy inlays and without hand cutting, they still look pretty
>pointy. But, the bits break easily and are not inexpensive,
You must be a dumb fucker, why would anyone go through the trouble to make
something sharp when nobody notices?? Just cut them out with a spoon and be
done with it, after all there is no wrong way.
Jim <----------Doesn't share in the above opinion, just making a funny point at
Barry's expense
lfigueroa
and, er, Ginacue is not Ernie Martinez -- it's Gutierrez.
Lou Figueroa
extra points for anyone who knows
his real first name (and it ain't Ernie, either :-)
"John Barton" <r...@jbideas.com> wrote in message
news:FoGdnTN0qL7...@centurytel.net...
John Barton
debut. And it was right there in print too.
John
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:QXnCc.21398$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Deno J. Andrews
7 of
> them,
You couldn't possibly know that and it's a joke that you would even suggest
it.
> who has many designs that don't lend themselves to being sharp, again if
it's
> something you and deno can't see I doubt I'd be able to explain it.
In all your "education," you can't even qualify your statement. Which
designs Jim are ok with you to be radiused? I can't wait to read your never
ending wisdom on artistic theory.
> This is my opinion and many educated cue collectors as well.
Like who?
> Do you think
> that these guys who do sharp inlays are all stupid? I mean they must be
they
> are doing extra work and as Deno puts it nobody knows or cares, why the
hell
> would they do it??
1. They prefer to do it.
2. They like to do it.
3. Their customer wants it.
4. They think it looks better.
5. the list goes on...
And some people do care as I have said all along, but thanks for putting
words in my mouth. What I have said Jim is that there are only few who do
care compared to lots who don't.
> I never said that every cue had to be sharp,
You said to be right they did.
Deno
Deno J. Andrews
it wrong. Hey Jim, I have some Korean house cues with sharp inlays in them
I'll sell you for 3K each ok? Come to think of it I might have a Mali with
some sharp inlays too that I can unload for $1900. Surely you'll want those
instead of paying the same for some lazy cue maker on the list below who
does it all wrong and cuts corners according to you. Hey, there's a nice
Audrick cue for $200 with 112 inlays, and they look sharp too! Better pick
it up quick before some other collector snatches it up. I mean, it is
intrinsically more valuable to you than lets say this lazy assed corner
cutting PFD cue that is at $911, right?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21212&item=3684103325
&rd=1
Or how about this lazy assed corner cutting (your opinion not mine) Mottey
that's bid up to $1785 so far?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3684831268&indexURL=9&pho
toDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
Hard to tell what those butt diamonds are radiused at, oh, and I even think
I see a glue line.
Oh, but here are some great sharp windows...they need a high bid Jim cause
you can buy it now for less than $100.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21212&item=3683468214
&rd=1
Dude, you are soooooooo wrong.
Deno
"John Barton" <r...@jbideas.com> wrote in message
news:FoGdnTN0qL7...@centurytel.net...
pltrgyst
>ah, Mr. Alphabet Soup, I presume.
>
>So glad your English gas improved. Have fun using it in my Bozo Bin :-)
You're going to have to rename that bin now that Bozodozo's in town, Lou. No
sense giving him any extra publicity -- he'll probably add it onto his resume.
-- Larry (the slow one -- please excuse this, but I closed out a 9-ball game
with table-length banks of the 7, 8, and 9 last night. Haven't had anything to
brag about on the pool table in such a long time... I know, should have had
better position. 8;) )
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Mountain Mike^^
sharp inlays. I
> even appreciate that it is your preference. But declaring radiused points
> as not being right is just plain ignorant. Enough said.
You can't change a person. You can only change your reaction. Jim has proven
over and over again, that he sees the world in stark black and white. He
*thinks* that to disagree with him, is to attack him. He hasn't grown up
enough to realize that not everyone agrees with him, likes him, or sees the
world through his rose tinted glasses. Typical teen-ageer.......
Yeah, he buys some cues. More than me, I guess. And if you disagree about
anything he does, well, you're just *uneducated*. Give me Deno's brand of
cuemaking anytime. Jimbo can smoke whatever he wants.....It's a free country
(sort of).
MM^^
Aunty Dan
second half, which is "Whilst greater fools look on".
--
Aunty Dan
------------------------------------------
"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoisted with his own petard."
- W. Shakespeare
------------------------------------------
"Steve Ellis" <rsp...@RemoveThiss-c-ellis.com> wrote in message
news:ecrjd0pusdlqh79qk...@4ax.com...
John Barton
below the wrap with three and two veneers per point and all are real and all
are sharp and the cue only costs $160 retail. So how about some props for
those industrious Chinese cuemakers. Must be some pretty bright 12 year
olds over there. I guess if they can do it then it must not be that
difficult.
I guess the "value" of sharp pointed cues just took a nose dive now that
production cuemakers can pump them out.
John
"Deno J. Andrews" <denoa...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mcqCc.2625$8m7....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
John Barton
> JCB saz: > All of these cuemakers are lazy
> >according to so-called cue collector Jim Brennan.
>
> So called?? John how many times will you throw out uneducated accusations?
> Please show any post where I claim to be an expert or a collector. You are so
> called sane, but that opinion isn't help by anyone outside your house and I'd
> bet some inside might think otherwise.
>
If I wanted to say you said it then I would have said
'self-proclaimed'. Mike Webb called you an expert. Fred Agnir called
you an expert. SittingDuck, whoever that is, called you an expert. I
call you a fool and your posts are proof enough of that.
> JCB: >Mr. Brennan further
> >states
>
>
> My father doesn't post here, but you can call me JimBo. When I sign my posts
> Jim Brennan feel free to use that name here, until then I'd say stick with
> JimBoCt or JimBo so we know who you are talking about.
I can call you what I want to. You don't bother to ever address me by
my name so why should I show you any consideration on that. Your name
is Jim Brennan isn't it? I figure that a highly respected expert on
the construction, value and work habits of cues and thier makers ought
to be addressed by his proper name. Jimbo sounds so juvenile, like
someone who won't grow up.
>
> JCB: > the top ten highest grossing cues of all time would have a
> >majority of sharp inlays.
>
> You's have to know what the top 10 cues are and I happen to know at least 7 of
> them, the list could change day to day, but most on the list are older Botis
> and Bushkas and throw in some of TW's work.
>
> JCB: >I think that this is untrue but I have no way to
> >prove it.
>
> If you don't have a clue why bring it up?? I'm sorry I guess you brought it up
> to prove that you have no clue.
>
> John gave a list of cuemakers he claims do rounded inlays and points. I will go
> over the list and pull a few out who do sharp inlays that he included.
>
> >Mike Bender *<---Sharp
> >Richard Black *<----Sharp
> >Black Boar *<---Sharp
> >Espiritu Custom Cues *<---Sharp
> >Joel Hercek <---Sharp
> >Judd's Custom Cues<---Sharp
> >Morris Custom Cues<---Sharp
> >Mottey Custom Cues *<---Sharp
> >Palmer Custom Cues (the Original Palmer)<---Sharp
> >Samsara Cues *<---These guys have made about 10 drop in cues, how you can add
> them to your list is a joke.
Gee, I guess they aren't being lazy anymore. I am afraid though, at
the risk of offending your expert sensibilities, that you are wrong.
I have seen recent examples of most of the cuemaker's work that you
have listed above and some of them have inlays with round corners. I
guess they need you around to prod them to go the extra mile.
>
> I could go on but I'm bored with it. Many people have made cues with rounded
> inlays in the past. I have also said that some designs lend themselves to
> rounded stuff, I have also pointed out that sometimes people do the rounded
> stuff right (AE for 1) but for the most part you're are obsessed and nuts. In
> an attempt to go after me in just one more post you made a fool of yourself.
> You have added people to this list that do sharp inlays to show 1 example of
> rounded work from 10 years ago is laughable. All people start off either as
> young cue makers or old guys with new technology and equipment and they have a
> learning curve. Some of those choose to take the new stuff and in time learn to
> use it right. To say Barry Szamboti or Joel Hercek does rounded inlays is not
> true and to point out a few examples from their past is a joke. But again you
> don't care how weak the argument is as long as it's anti jimbo. Nice try
> Johnny.
Yes, It was a very successful post proving again what an idiot you
are. Most of the elite cuemakers on the list were and still are
heralded as the best and most artistic in their field with or without
your opinion of their work.
>
> JCB:
> >Thomas Wayne Cues * (Oh that ever so lazy Thomas, if he had just applied
> >himself a little more then he could have sold a cue for more than the
> >$103,000 he already got for one.)
>
> Thomas does sharp inlay work and out of everyone on this list he is the one guy
> who has many designs that don't lend themselves to being sharp, again if it's
> something you and deno can't see I doubt I'd be able to explain it.
You definitely cannot explain 'it'. The "point" is that Thomas Wayne
sells every cue he makes whether the little diamonds are round or
pointy. I think that you can not appreciate when a point has been
well rounded.
>
> JCB: >And that is the list of cuemakers who are "lazy" according to so-called
> cue
> >expert Jim Brennan.
>
> If you don't think they are lazy please tell me what you consider someone who
> takes the time and effort to hand cut sharp inlays is??
An Eagle Scout? What? Why don't you enlighten us on exactly how much
real true "hand cutting" is going on? Really I'd like to know.
Detail for us exactly waht "hand cutting" the inlays entails. Betcha
won't do it.
When you come up with a
> term find the opposite of it and apply it, maybe Lazy was a bad choice of
> words, but IMO it fits. And once more I will ask what SO CALLED means? Who ever
> called me an expert?
The opposite? Okay how about creative, industrious, efficient. Mike
Webb, Fred Agnir, Barry Cameron and Sitting Duck all called you an
expert or alluded to your so-called expertise. Why do you belabor
this? Accept that there are people out there who feel that you are an
expert. To me whatever expertise about cues that you may have is
completely overshadowed by your bigoted opinions and this is why we
are here in this thread.
>
> JCB: > I might just forward this to the American Cuemakers Association
>
> Feel free I give my opinion here and I stand by it. I have no problem saying
> anything I've said to a cue makers face. This is my opinion and many educated
> cue collectors as well. I'm sorry that you don't agree, we can just add it to
> the list of things you and I disagree with.
And I suppose that the rest of the cues are going to uneducated
collectors? This statement is incredibly ludicrous.
>
> I have said it many times, you can skirt the issues and nit pick what I said
> but you will never change my opinion.
We ALL know that you will never change your opinion no matter how many
times you are proven wrong. I enjoy proving you wrong for the benefit
of those who might otherwise be inclined to believe your bullshit.
People who do sharp inlays go an extra
> mile. They spend more time and effort on the cue and in their work. For anyone
> to disagree with what I have said you will need to put up a good argument
> against me.
Even if they do this does NOT make those who do not do it lazy. Nor
does it detract from their artistry. You want to show me something
done by hand? If you want the "extra mile" let's see the cuemakers you
value so much start producing 58" inch tapered and jointed pool cues
using nothing more than a foot pedal driven wood lathe. Let's see
them inlay several hundred pieces, all cut by hand and precisely
placed with no glue lines. When I was in Turkey I saw thrones inlaid
in intricate patterns that make Thomas Wayne's stuff look like a
kindergarten drawing. Each leg of the throne was inlaid EXACTLY like
the others to the millimeter. There were thousands of individual
pieces. Now that is going the extra mile. I highly doubt that most
cuemakers whose cues have sharp inlays are actually whittling on them
to get them all sharp and perfect. I am going to guess that Sherm's
description is more the norm in that the cuemakers develop techniques
to achieve that effect and these techniques are either illusory or
mechanical.
So please take the other side of the cue and explain it to me. Why
> would a person spend so much extra effort to do something that they didn't
> think was right? Attention to detail John I am shocked that someone who has
> made the claims here you have in the past doesn't understand this. Do you think
> that these guys who do sharp inlays are all stupid?
You apparently think that whoever doesn't do it the way you like it is
stupid and lazy.
I mean they must be they
> are doing extra work and as Deno puts it nobody knows or cares, why the hell
> would they do it??
Further proof that you deliberately refuse to acknowledge anything
anyone says that does not agree with. Deno said that there is a
MARKET for all types of cues being made and that if there was a MARKET
for only one type, i.e. sharp inlays, then that is all that would be
made.
> I never said that every cue had to be sharp, the way you made that list I can
> do the same list and for every cuemaker I see who has done 1 sharp inlay I can
> add them, but that's only when I am trying to be like you. Your hate shines
> through and it really detracts from any of the good stuff you have to add.
Gee, was I being that obvious? I understood you to mean that every
cue that could be sharp, should be. Did you mean something else?
Didn't you say that when a cuemaker does not sharpen his inlays that
he or she is being lazy? Yes I know, if the design lends itself to
sharp inlays. So by your reckoning most of the cues I see should be
sharpened but they are not because the cuemaker is lazy.
>
> Quote unknown person who John is trolling with: >We take pride in the fact that
> the tips of our
> >diamond, spear and starburst inlays are very sharp and fade gradually into
> >the base wood.
>
> WOW!!! He must be nuts, why would he take pride in something nobody cares
> about? How can that be something to take pride in?? And BTW John No I don't
> want to know who said it, we all know you're dying for me to ask so you can
> make a point in another attack filled post.
Again, none of us said that no one cares about it. I figured you woud
immediately know who said it. It doesn't matter. The statement, as
written, is narrow minded in my opinion which is probably why it
agrees with your opinon.
>
> Jim <---Thinks you should throw out your BBII it's old outdated and filled with
> bad info
Yes. Very bad info indeed. All those examples, 40 pages of them, of
laziness. Let's have a book burning party to erase the painful
memories of the time when cuemakers were lazy. All those awful
pictures of cues which would have otherwise been fine showcases of a
unique artform if only the cuemakers would have gotten off their lazy
butts and sharpened those inlays. Gosh, with your expert insight I am
horrified by the thought of ever opening that book again.
Would you care to make a small wager, say a billion dollars that the
new and presumably up-to-date Blue Book will have some more examples
of cuemakers with -gasp- inlays with rounded corners? Would you care
to wager that some of those cuemakers will be from your list above? I
didn't think so.
It is so enlightening to be in the presence of an expert. Thank
goodness for cuemaking that you are here Jim Brennan.
John Barton
www.cuecaserepair.com
Edwin Reyes
>
> All and all, in the end, it's the customer that decides.... and I don't
> think there is a major difference of opinion between most customers.
>
> Barry C.
> cameroncues.com
>
>
> "Sherm Adamson" <sher...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:DvGdnULJfam...@adelphia.com...
> > I guess what I'm trying to say is there are different ways make a very
> > nice cue. If the basic construction is good, the appearance of the cue is
> a
> > matter of personal preference. Someone ordering a custom cue to "HIS
> SPECS"
> > has a right to expect it to be made with "sharp points and inlays" if
> that's
> > his preference.
> > Sherm
Great posts Barry, Chas and Sherm. I agree that consumation of a deal
is dependent on the customer. But make no mistake, choice of
methodology is for the craftsman alone to make. Technical advances in
materials and processes has made the line, that differentiates cues in
the hit category, real narrow. It used to be what identifies a
cuemaker from the other. It still somewhat exists but, then again,
hit is subjective. This IMO is the reason why the cuecraftsman's eye
was cast on the aesthetics of the cue, to set himself apart from the
others. And thus the start of the use of pantographs and CNCs. From
the onset, it was a race to whoever can afford and proficiently use
these equipment to set himself apart from the rest. Discovering new
ways to get design ideas translated efficiently. But then, technology
will never cease to advance and so is its ease of use. How much
longer do you think will that "demarkation line" between custom and
production cues (design) last if their construction methodology is one
and the same? How hard will it be for scrupulous entities to
duplicate a design executed with this technologically advanced
machines?
I do expect responses to this post but hope that they stay in the
custom cue art topic since it is IMO that the sharp vs round debate is
about a cue's collectibility and I do notice that majority of the cues
collected are because of their art. My understanding and thus my
approach to this craft is "taking function and beauty and making them
work as one "but more focus on function, due to the cue being an
implement of performance. Structural composition of the cue is in
itself art and the more when considerations are taken in composing the
aesthetic to it or vice versa.
In expressing my ideas, whether it be deemed artistic or otherwise, I
have chosen manual over computerized as I find it to best express my
ideas. But do too look at how I can blend the use of CNC in the
expression of these ideas. Quite possibly, just as far as in rough
cutting the inlay materials only. Secondly, I prefer the said
methodology as it gives me peace of mind. It's harder to couterfeit
specially with the prevalence of the "I want it now" attitude.
Pardon me, just some thoughts that run through my mind when I see the
topic. And it sure is hard to pick them out specially when it's
running at a million miles/min, it kinda gets all jumbled up.
Edwin Reyes< always open to new and old ideas
William Lee
"John Barton" <bar...@instroke.com> wrote
> > I never said that every cue had to be sharp, the way you made that list
I can
> > do the same list and for every cuemaker I see who has done 1 sharp inlay
I can
> > add them, but that's only when I am trying to be like you. Your hate
shines
> > through and it really detracts from any of the good stuff you have to
add.
>
> Gee, was I being that obvious? I understood you to mean that every
> cue that could be sharp, should be. Did you mean something else?
> Didn't you say that when a cuemaker does not sharpen his inlays that
> he or she is being lazy? Yes I know, if the design lends itself to
> sharp inlays. So by your reckoning most of the cues I see should be
> sharpened but they are not because the cuemaker is lazy.
Jimbo can add my name to his list as I have done a cue with sharp pointed
inlays.
Here is the proof.
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx/stambolee1.jpg
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx/stambolee2.jpg
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx/stambolee3.jpg
These photos were posted over a year ago here so I know he seen it.
But as always he ignores anything that does not fit his narow and often
wrong set of "rules".
William Lee
lfigueroa
ah, the possibilities :-)
Lou Figueroa
"pltrgyst" <pltr...@spamlessxhost.org> wrote in message
news:gsckd05vfqk9o18t6...@4ax.com...
Deno J. Andrews
> You can't change a person. You can only change your reaction. Jim has
proven
> over and over again, that he sees the world in stark black and white.
Maybe he should collect only ebony and ivory cues? ;)
Deno
Frank Brent
>
> and, er, Ginacue is not Ernie Martinez -- it's Gutierrez.
>
> Lou Figueroa
> extra points for anyone who knows
> his real first name (and it ain't Ernie, either :-)
>
Caesar
Frank B
Fred Agnir
> Fred Agnir called
> you an expert.
I did? I must have been drunk.
> SittingDuck, whoever that is, called you an expert.
Sheldon Lebow. And for Sheldon Lebow to call Jim an expert doesn't make sense.
Fred
John Barton
"Fred Agnir" <oha...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5447edcf.04062...@posting.google.com...
Fred, if you, Mike and Barry feel that Jim Brennan has anything of value to
offer William Lee in the field of cuemaking then don't you consider him to
be an expert? Are you advising a practicing cuemaker to send his work to a
neophyte? Sheldon just said that Jimbo knows more about cues than 95% of
the people who post here. From what I have seen there is a large number of
people here who seem to exhibit a pretty good knowledge of cues so for Jim
to know more than 95% puts him in the expert category IF Sheldon's assertion
is true. Mike Webb said, and I quote, "this man knows cues". Now if an
esteemed cuemaker says that about someone isn't it safe to assume that the
cuemaker feels that the person he is talking about is an expert?
But, I agree with you. You must have been drunk. :-)
Tell us your opinion about Jim's comment that cuemakers who don't sharpen
all their inlays are lazy. You are in a unique position to comment on this
right now. Are the cuemakers who don't routinely "sharpen" their inlays
lazy?
John
John Barton
"William Lee" <n5...@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a4BCc.2241$Pc....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
Don't you get it Willie. Even if you were to fulfill every single one of
Jim Brennan's "requirements" you would still not be considered a cuemaker by
him. You have violated the cardinal rule of this newsgroup. You have
disagreed with Jim Brennan and you have done it in his attributed field of
expertise, cuemaking. This puts you on the level of the Axis of Evil in Mr.
Brennan's eyes.
Had you simply prosyletized yourself before the Altar of Cuemaking and asked
Jim Brennan's advice in the beginning of your career then you would have
been accepted as an obedient acolyte and you would be inundated with orders
for cues for the next twenty years. Mr. Brennan holds the key to all
cuemaking success. Listen up any of you lurking cuemakers and learn from
William's mistakes. Send all of your work to Jim Brennan before anyone else
get's to look at it if you want to succeed of as a cuemaker and not be
considered lazy.
Hate is such a strong word. I don't hate you Jim. I pity you and at the
same time am thankful that you provide entertainment and a live example of
arrogant bigotry to use to educate with. Don't change. Your the best free
entertainment going.
Jimbo Ct
I doubt what you say is true, but I would say that Stalk is a much better term
to define you.
Jim <---Has a few, join the club
Jimbo Ct
anything of value to
>offer William Lee in the field of cuemaking then don't you consider him to
>be an expert?
Seems like a bit of a stretch to go from what they said to Expert, but I guess
it fits your stalk of the day.
JCB: >Sheldon just said that Jimbo knows more about cues than 95% of
>the people who post here.
>to know more than 95% puts him in the expert category
Again quite a leap, but it fits your stalker rant of the day so stick with it.
JCB: >Mike Webb said, and I quote, "this man knows cues"
Again giant leap from knowing about something to being an expert, but seems to
fit your agenda so run with it stalkerboy.
JCB: >Tell us your opinion about Jim's comment that cuemakers who don't sharpen
>all their inlays are lazy.
Lazy may be considered to be a derogatory term and maybe not the best one to
use. But if you consider that Sharp takes more time and effort then I guess you
can also assume that rounded is a shortcut, thus it wouldn't be a big leap to
say lazy (or at least cutting corners). Now that's a leap that isn't 1/2 as
crazy as all of the ones you took in this post.
Jim <---Hoping his stalker has a parachute
Smorgass Bored
JCB: >That is why none of his cues are in Jim's collection.
What collection John?? You have been asked about this countless times
now yet you ignore it. Would you like to continue to rant and make up
shit about me that you have no idea about or would you like to prove
that you have at least a small bit of knowledge of the man you stalk?
Again in case I didn't make my challenge clear. Please show the link to
the post that I made here on RSB talking about a collection
Maybe you guys can divide all my posts up by year or moth. I am sure
after all the posts I've made there must me many since you keep claiming
these things as truth spoken by me. Please John for once back up
something you say.
Jim <--- a stupid pinheaded moron
Dumbo said previously:
Once again I'd like to thank Joe V and Mark K from Classiccues.com,
please visit their site, they have some great stuff, and it's getting
better since I decided to thin out my collection, check the new cues
section.
Jim <----Good luck to me
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
Smorgass Bored
I've been collecting cues now for over 12 years and I can remember when
cue makers would start out doing years of repair work before they even
ventured into making a sneaky pete, they paid dues and knew how to make
a cue.
Jim <----- a lying idiot
Smorgass Bored
JCB: >That is why none of his cues are in Jim's collection.
What collection John?? You have been asked about this countless times
now yet you ignore it. Would you like to continue to rant and make up
shit about me that you have no idea about or would you like to prove
that you have at least a small bit of knowledge of the man you stalk?
Again in case I didn't make my challenge clear. Please show the link to
the post that I made here on RSB talking about a collection
I am sure after all the posts I've made there must me many since you
keep claiming these things as truth spoken by me.
Dumbo wrote in RSB:
I am 28 also own a small company, I love pool. College edumacated
,Collect Cues, Ride my harley, and blah, blah, blah..
Jim <---- caught lying AGAIN
William Lee
"Smorgass Bored" <Smorga...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9327-40D...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
And
"I've never posted that I am a CUE expert, let alone an expert on anything.
I collect cues, my collection
would spin most peoples heads, does that in any way make me an expert??? I
don't think so".
Jimbo Ct < ------ 06/04/2001