Metal joint VS wood to wood joint?
MDavis0007
metal joint and the other is wood to wood, will there be a noticable difference
in the way in the play of the two sticks?
Mark
**doc**
Frank in Richmond, Va.
Bob Johnson
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
Home of the back to back World Champion Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
John McChesney
shock wave isn't close to the joint before the cue ball leaves the tip.
Although, the sound (hit) and balance of cues (steel vs. wood to wood)
are generally different. Steel jointed cues tend to be a slight bit more
front heavy.
I have experimented over the years and can't detect that use of either has
much to
do with how a cue: draws, follows, etc.
To me, the shaft diameter and density and tip and ferrule composition have
much more
to do with how a cue plays than does the joint.
In the high spped camera study, the predator shafts do deflect less than
others, as they are
much lighter in weight in the frontal area. (less mass means less
defelection). This is due to
hollow/foam filled man-made material core of the shaft at the ferrule end,
thus making the shaft lighter.
I have hit balls with a predator shaft and I simply can't tell much
difference until the shafts get
above 13 to 13 1/2 mm.
I prefer a shaft of larger dimameter (like a Southwest), with an unforgiving
(hard) ferrule (like the original
yellow mycarta), hard tip and gradual taper (like Southwest)...stiff, hard
hitting cue.
I have never been able to adjust to the more flexible style shafts. However,
one learns to play with
certain cues they like....and that becomes the best hit for them. That's
why there are so many different
varieties of cues, shafts, tapers, etc.
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
Frank in Richmond, Va. wrote in message
<7jn99j$ega$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
>yes
>frank
Mountain Mike^^
John McChesney <j...@texasexpress.com> wrote in message > I prefer a shaft of
larger dimameter (like a Southwest), with an unforgiving
> (hard) ferrule (like the original
> yellow mycarta), hard tip and gradual taper (like Southwest)...stiff, hard
> hitting cue.
Hey John. SW cues have a great reputation for their hit. What do you
attribute this? Taper? Also how large a shaft do you play with?
MM^<--just wondering.
kcbl...@earthlink.net
a Schuler with different shaft tapers and you'll quickly see how shaft
taper effects how the cue feels. Assuming the shaft taper is not a
variable I think that you will feel the cue response better with a
wood to wood joint ... but you may or may not like what you feel. When I
shoot cues with a piloted joint the feed back I get from the cue always
seems to be pretty constant regardless of how I hit the ball. I think
your perception of how your cue feels is very important. If it's not
just right it may bug the heck out of you and that will definitly effect
your game!
Ken
In article <19990609171415...@ng-fg1.aol.com>,
mdavi...@aol.com (MDavis0007) wrote:
> If you have two sticks that or for the most part indentical except
one has a
> metal joint and the other is wood to wood, will there be a noticable
difference
> in the way in the play of the two sticks?
>
> Mark
> **doc**
>
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Mike Page
<j...@texasexpress.com> wrote:
> It has been proven by high spped camera (Jacksonville project) that the
> shock wave isn't close to the joint before the cue ball leaves the tip.
John, I don't believe any of the Jacksonvillians proved or claimed this.
I think there are a handful of transmissions through and reflections at
the joint while the tip is on the ball.
--
mike page
fargo
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
Mountain Mike^^ wrote in message <7jpgc9$hv$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net>...
John McChesney
At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules
covered with masking tape...then numbered.
No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a
Pete), nor
detect by the style of ferrule.
We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.
The results:
Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong
about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times.
A top pro (Meucci staffer) happened to be there, having done an exhibition
and the cue
he liked the most during the attempts:
He thought was surely a Meucci, plastic joint when in reality it was an
older
Adams with a piloted steel joint; and additionally guessed the Meucci he
shot with as a
cue with a steel joint.
Again, I maintain that cues with different joint materials may sound
differently;
may be balanced differently, but what is "hit" ?
Doesn't "hit" have to do with all the senses:
Vibration (feel), sound, balance, etc.
What is a "soft" hit? What is a "hard" hit? (what does this mean, if not
the sound the
cue makes upon impact, or are people ref. to the vibration in the butt?)
Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound?
A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound?
I maintain that the primary criteria that differentiates one cue from
another begins with:
>The tip (soft, med or hard)
>The shaft diameter and density of the wood
>The taper (or stiffness of the shaft)
To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the
reaction of the cueball
off the shaft, rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing
on how a cue
plays than anything else.
Remember, what makes the predator shaft play differently is what is located
at the tip,
inside the shaft, the ferrule and the laminations....not the joint or butt.
In closing, our experiment asked which cue the players liked best:
Of the 70 players, nearly 55 liked the hit of two cues with different
numbers:
When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints,
(one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13
1/4mm and
tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the
hit of these two cues:
more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
John McChesney
Texas Express
National Nine Ball Tour
PO Box 700814
Dallas Tx 75370
Voice 214 495 tour (8687)
Fax 214 495 7616
j...@texasexpress.com
http://www.texasexpress.com
Mike Page wrote in message ...
John McChesney
--
Bradicall
>>At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules
>>covered with masking tape...then numbered.
Personally, I like the idea of the test, but there is a flaw in the basic
logic. All cues hit differently. Even the same cue from the same manufacturer.
Much of a cues "hit" comes from the type and quality of wood used in the shaft.
Granted, IMO, a wood to wood joint enhances the hit, but I have used wood to
wood cues that hit like they have a sweat sock as a tip. My personal cues are
Southwests. They have the best hit I have ever had in a cue.( I've had 60+
different custom and manfactured cues). I think that you can find any hit you
want if you just shop around.
Bradical
Ron Shepard
<j...@texasexpress.com> wrote:
>Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:
>At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules
>covered with masking tape...then numbered. [...]
This is an interesting experiment.
[...]
>Does a hard hit vibrate more and make a different sound?
>A soft hit vibrate less with a different sound?
I think it is the opposite. A "hard" hit has little vibration afterwards
-- like hitting the balls with a sledge hammer. A "soft" hit has more
vibration and more feel. If the hit is too soft, there is too much
vibration afterwards, then it is "harsh". I would think that there would
be better words to describe these things, but these are the ones that
everyone tries to use. To some people, "hard" means "dead", and "soft"
means "lively"; but if you like "hard" hits, then you don't like to use
the word "dead" to describe what you like. It would be nice to find some
neutral sounding words to describe the characteristics of "hit" and
"feel".
As far as sound, I'm not sure if it is the amplitude (volume), or the
frequency, or how fast the amplitude is damped out that is important.
You've read about my water-in-the-ear experience before, so I certainly do
believe that sound is critical, at least for some of us players, I just
don't know which aspect of it is the most important to the "hit" of a
stick.
>To this day, I still don't believe the joint has much to do with the
>reaction of the cueball
>off the shaft,
I agree with this. In fact, I go even further and say this: apart from
miscues, the tip and shaft characteristics don't have much to do with the
cue ball action either. I think it is all in the tip offset and the shot
speed.
Squirt is a different matter, but we're talking about cue ball action
here, not squirt.
>rather it is the 3 aforementioned that have far more bearing
>on how a cue
>plays than anything else.
I think the difference has to do with the feedback that the player
expects, and needs, in order for him to perform well. I agree that the
tip and shaft are most important, but I think the joint does make a
difference too. For example, all Schuler cues (which I think are well
built, quality, cues) hit "hard" to me, even those with long cylindrical
taper shafts; I have never seen a soft-hitting Schuler cue.
[...]
>When the two were exposed, they both were sneaky petes, wood to wood joints,
>(one a Scruggs and the other a Huebler); both about 19 oz., both about 13
>1/4mm and
>tended to be on the stiff side of "hit". By the way, the 55 who liked the
>hit of these two cues:
>more than half thought they would be steel jointed.
I noticed something similar to this observation a couple of years back.
There are several players around here who started collecting, and playing
with, expensive cue sticks. After going through a series of expensive
sticks over a period of a few months, several of these players all started
playing with sneaky petes. After throwing their games out of whack (not
because the sticks were bad, I think, but just because they were changing
sticks so frequently), they went back to solid hitting sticks with the
right kind of feedback to get their strokes back in shape. It is sort of
strange to see someone come into a room with $50K worth of cue sticks, set
up his display case in the corner, and then play in the tournament with a
$150 sneaky pete, but this is what was happening. Actually, if I remember
correctly, several of those $150 sneaky petes were Bludworth cues they
bought at a couple of Texas Express stops around here.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
kcbl...@earthlink.net
cue is to shoot ... anything stiffer than the Schuler Pro and I just
can't hack it ... feels too harsh ... but with my Schuler I always
receive a good deel of feed back on every type of shot and I've
always attributed that to the joint ... I don't want to be isolated from
any feed back from my cue. I've shot lots of Schons that while having a
softer hit give very little feedback. I'm curious what type of cues you
have shot give a soft hit while still giving good feed back for your
style of shooting.
Ken
In article <shepard-1406...@tcg15.tcg.anl.gov>,
she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) wrote:
*SNIP*
> I think the difference has to do with the feedback that the player
> expects, and needs, in order for him to perform well. I agree that
the
> tip and shaft are most important, but I think the joint does make a
> difference too. For example, all Schuler cues (which I think are well
> built, quality, cues) hit "hard" to me, even those with long
cylindrical
> taper shafts; I have never seen a soft-hitting Schuler cue.
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Ken Bour
[SNIP]
Interesting experiment. Thanks for posting the results.
I have two cues, one has a 3/8 x 10 radial pin and a wood joint and the
other is a 5/16 x 14 steel joint. I hit with both and cannot tell them
apart -- at least by the joint characteristics. Others have played with
both of my cues and tell me that they can definitely "feel" and "hear"
differences in the "hits." I have always been a little suspicious of such
contentions. Your evidence suggests that there is considerable doubt about
players' ability to sense the type of joint.
--
Ken Bour
Sterling, VA
http://www.erols.com/kbour
B.M.J.van Nunen
wooden and steel joints. At present allmost all carom cues are made with wooden
joints, mainly because the shaft can be made out of one piece of wood then.
This means that the cue has a bigger chance to be perfectly straight.
To be honest, I haven't seen any wooden-joint pool-cues over here yet, but then
again I rarely play outside my region yet, so maybe in the future.
--
BvN
---
B.M.J. van Nunen, B.M.J.v...@kub.nl
Student of Information Management and Technology
System Administrator at StuWWW.kub.nl
http://stuwww.kub.nl/people/b.vannunen
Bob Johnson
the American, but it took a little getting used to. I think the 12.5mm tip
gave me a little trouble at first. The more I shoot with it, the more I
like it.
--
Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
Home of the back to back World Champion Broncos!
bo...@cris.com
<kcbl...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7k9d34$3if$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
kcbl...@earthlink.net
couldn't get used to it ... it's a bit short for me and the quicker
growth in diameter messed with my bridge because I have a long stroke
and the hit was too stiff for me ... good cue ball control however. I
love my Shculer Pro shaft but in times of stress (getting my booty
kicked ... with my help of course!) I tend to get a little agrivated
with the hit but still I think it's a damn good shaft for 9 ball and
gives excellent cue ball control. So ... now I shoot with the Pro taper
shaft and I seem to be most comfortable with that taper recently (booty
in trouble or not!). I have a 31.5 inch Pro taper on order because with
my long stroke and low stance I kinda run out of cue!
Ken
In article <7klu7c$h...@chronicle.concentric.net>,
"Bob Johnson" <bo...@cris.com> wrote:
> The Schuler Pro is probably my favorite all-around shaft, but I also
like
> the American, but it took a little getting used to. I think the
12.5mm tip
> gave me a little trouble at first. The more I shoot with it, the more
I
> like it.
>
> --
> Bob Johnson, Denver, Co.
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