Need Advice on getting first cue...

Guanyao Cheng

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Jun 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/26/97

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Hi,
I have been playing pool for a while now, and I have decided it would be
good to get my own cue. I have looked at the prices and decided I don't
want to spend more than $200 on it as I'm not that good yet. I am looking
at the Internet Cue Store and I'm thinking about a Cuetec... After all,
Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland also play with it so it can't be all
that bad right? How about a McDermott in that range? I have heard they
are not that good... What other cues would you recommend?

Thanks in advance,
Guanyao Cheng

--
Guanyao Cheng "And I personally assure you, everybody here, that
gch...@uiuc.edu if Deep Blue will start playing competitive
http://www.uiuc.edu/ph chess, I personally guarantee you I'll
/www/gcheng tear it to pieces" -- Garry Kasparov

Preferred Customer

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Jun 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/29/97

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Guanyao Cheng <gch...@uni.uiuc.edu> wrote in article
<5oul8q$atg$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...

> Hi,
> I have been playing pool for a while now, and I have decided it would be
> good to get my own cue. I have looked at the prices and decided I don't
> want to spend more than $200 on it as I'm not that good yet. I am looking

> at the Internet Cue Store and I'm thinking about a Cuetec... After all,
> Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland also play with it so it can't be all
> that bad right? How about a McDermott in that range? I have heard they
> are not that good... What other cues would you recommend?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Guanyao Cheng
>

> I don't follow strict rule when I buy a cue. I just take the rock and
roll approach. Here's my criteria:
1.Does it feel right?
2.Is it warped?
3.Does it feel right?
4.Is the tip hard and smooth? (You'll roughen it up later)
5.Does it feel right?
6.Is it long enough?
7.Does it feel right?

That's it. I bought my first cue last December (Christmas money), and I'm
really happy with it. Forget about "deflection" and "squirt" and that crap.
If it feels right, then there isn't anything wrong with it. BTW, I've found
inexpensive sticks are just as good as expensive ones. Don't listen to the
hype in advertisements, and remember, Ms. Fisher and Mr. Strickland
endorse Cuetec.They get paid and they get free sticks. It's all what you
feel.

Terrata

Ter...@hotmail.com

John Walkup

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Jun 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/29/97

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"Preferred Customer" <CTAlb...@worldnet.att.net> writes:

>Guanyao Cheng <gch...@uni.uiuc.edu> wrote in article
><5oul8q$atg$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>> Hi,

>> at the Internet Cue Store and I'm thinking about a Cuetec... After all,

>> Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland also play with it so it can't be all
>> that bad right? How about a McDermott in that range? I have heard they
>> are not that good... What other cues would you recommend?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Guanyao Cheng
>>
>> I don't follow strict rule when I buy a cue. I just take the rock and
>roll approach. Here's my criteria:
>1.Does it feel right?
>2.Is it warped?
>3.Does it feel right?
>4.Is the tip hard and smooth? (You'll roughen it up later)
>5.Does it feel right?
>6.Is it long enough?
>7.Does it feel right?

>That's it. I bought my first cue last December (Christmas money), and I'm
>really happy with it. Forget about "deflection" and "squirt" and that crap.
>If it feels right, then there isn't anything wrong with it. BTW, I've found
>inexpensive sticks are just as good as expensive ones. Don't listen to the
>hype in advertisements, and remember, Ms. Fisher and Mr. Strickland
>endorse Cuetec.They get paid and they get free sticks. It's all what you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Would they shoot with Cuetecs if they weren't paid to? I doubt it.
I can't think of one single real good player who plays with a Cuetec who isn't
paid to. So how good can they be?

John

Althair

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Jun 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/29/97

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I'm fairly certain Joss makes a cue or two beginning at $200. Often, such
a product from a company with a repuation for excellence gives you maximum
value: you get all the best qualities of a Joss Cue and don't pay for any
of the fancier touches, which are merely decorative anyway. So, why not
get a great cue but without "birdseye maple" or "points" or other
decoration? You will find that people will be impressed that you play
with a Joss. Althair (ps--my own has a decorated butt below the grip and
is birdseye, but with no points above the grip it is a fairly "plain" cue,
but very beautiful and often admired). I got it for about 300 two years
ago.

cfei...@iamerica.net

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Jul 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/7/97

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On 26 Jun 1997 21:00:10 GMT, gch...@uni.uiuc.edu (Guanyao Cheng)
wrote:

>Hi,
>I have been playing pool for a while now, and I have decided it would be
>good to get my own cue. I have looked at the prices and decided I don't
>want to spend more than $200 on it as I'm not that good yet. I am looking

>at the Internet Cue Store and I'm thinking about a Cuetec... After all,
>Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland also play with it so it can't be all
>that bad right? How about a McDermott in that range? I have heard they
>are not that good... What other cues would you recommend?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Guanyao Cheng
>

>--
>Guanyao Cheng "And I personally assure you, everybody here, that
>gch...@uiuc.edu if Deep Blue will start playing competitive
>http://www.uiuc.edu/ph chess, I personally guarantee you I'll
>/www/gcheng tear it to pieces" -- Garry Kasparov

my advice is to look into to getting a custom cue. you can usually
find a good custom cue, made by a master cue maker, used for under
$200. custom cues are better because they usually increase in value as
the get older as collector pieces. some good makers are joss, jensen,
and scruggs. you can also get a bull cue (made by a cue maker in baton
rouge, louisiana) for under $100. and they hit as good as a mcdermott.
you can contact bull at 15049241632.

Ken k

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Jul 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/11/97

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cfei...@iamerica.net wrote:
>
> On 26 Jun 1997 21:00:10 GMT, gch...@uni.uiuc.edu (Guanyao Cheng)
> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >I have been playing pool for a while now, and I have decided it would be
> >good to get my own cue. I have looked at the prices and decided I don't
> >want to spend more than $200 on it as I'm not that good yet. I am looking
> >at the Internet Cue Store and I'm thinking about a Cuetec... After all,
> >Allison Fisher and Earl Strickland also play with it so it can't be all
> >that bad right? How about a McDermott in that range? I have heard they
> >are not that good... What other cues would you recommend?

I know more than a couple of "100 average" USPPA players in the area
that use the Meucci "Sneaky Pete" cue. You don't have to spend a lot of
money to get something that will let you play to your potential. Why
don't you ask around your area and see if there are any local makers
that will put something simple together for you? As long as you get the
shaft you want and a good tip, you will be OK. A popular mix is the butt
of a "house cue" with a custom-made shaft mated to it. These used to be
very popular, esp when built from the Brunswick "Willie Hoppe" one-piece
cue.

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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est...@aol.com (Esternb) writes:

> >How do you know they aren't stolen? (Believe me, the number of stolen
>cues
>out there posing as "Cues taken from some guy in a bet" is huge. In fact,
>they may be in the majority.)

>John<

> That is very true John. I do have an answer though. I check with all of
>the major rooms once a week to see if any cues have been reported stollen
>from patrons. If I see a cue of the same make/model at a shop in town, I
>call the club that the cue was illegidely taken from. This is not in any
>way an absolute measure to prevent me buying stollen merchandise,. But it
>does cut down on my personal liability, and once in a while I can help
>recover somebodys lost or stolen cue.

Which is fine. But no one suggested to the man looking for a used cue to do
the same.

> I try to assume that all cues are stolen when they apear in a pawn
>shop...but I do my best to keep everything on the level.

When they are in a pawn shop I don't worry about it. It is the pawn shop's
responsibility at that point.

John

Ron Shepard

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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In article <walkup.869013983@dimension>, wal...@dimension.nhn.uoknor.edu
(John Walkup) wrote:

[...]

>When they are in a pawn shop I don't worry about it. It is the pawn shop's
>responsibility at that point.

I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick
from a pawn shop. When the police take back the stick and return it to
its owner, can the buyer get his money back from the pawn shop? If so,
then how does the shop owner get his money back from the thief? Or what
if the stick changed hands a few times between the thief and the shop
owner?

$.02 -Ron Shepard (who had a stick stolen from him once)

Esternb

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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John wrote:

>Which is fine. But no one suggested to the man looking for a used cue to
do
the same.<

Well, hopefully that person will follow the thread that they started.

Eric

Bill Gribble

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) writes:
> I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick
> from a pawn shop.

I'm not a lawyer. Law varies from state to state, but generally if
you buy something in good faith, with reasonable cause to believe that
the seller had clear title to it, it's yours regardless of the
seller's truthfulness. So the pawnshop isn't obligated to give
anything back, and something that you buy from a pawnshop is certainly
yours regardless of whether it got there legitimately or not.

Bill Gribble

John Walkup

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) writes:

>In article <walkup.869013983@dimension>, wal...@dimension.nhn.uoknor.edu
>(John Walkup) wrote:

>[...]
>>When they are in a pawn shop I don't worry about it. It is the pawn shop's
>>responsibility at that point.

>I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick

>from a pawn shop. When the police take back the stick and return it to
>its owner, can the buyer get his money back from the pawn shop? If so,

I assume that he could sue the pawn shop at that point. When you buy
from an established business I don't think it is the customer's
responsibility to check the legality of the merchandise.

>then how does the shop owner get his money back from the thief? Or what

He doesn't. He bought stolen merchandise, and I imagine he could be
prosecuted in many states if such is the case. However, I think that
what usually happens is that the cue is simply returned to its owner,
and the pawn shop keeper is stuck. He could sue the thief, of course.

>if the stick changed hands a few times between the thief and the shop
>owner?

Doesn't matter.

BTW, I am no expert on this issue, but I am pretty certain I am right.
Does anyone know for sure?

John

John Tate

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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John Walkup wrote:
>
> Bill Gribble <gr...@cs.utexas.edu> writes:

>
> >she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) writes:
> >> I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick
> >> from a pawn shop.
>

> >I'm not a lawyer. Law varies from state to state, but generally if
> >you buy something in good faith, with reasonable cause to believe that
> >the seller had clear title to it, it's yours regardless of the
> >seller's truthfulness. So the pawnshop isn't obligated to give
> >anything back, and something that you buy from a pawnshop is certainly
> >yours regardless of whether it got there legitimately or not.
>

> If someone steals my cue, and I report it to the police, then I should be
> able to recover it anytime it is found. Otherwise, you are saying that
> pawn shops can launder stolen merchandise, which cannot be correct.
>
> John

If you buy stolen property, regardless if in good faith or not, it is
still stolen property, period. This theory is universal State to State.
In fact, in California, say you pay $100 for a Rolex watch, you are
presumed by law to know that you are buying stolen property due to the
price great difference in price and can be arrested for possession of
stolen property if caught, even if you did not steal it. Since cues and
cases seem to be stolen from pool halls through the country on a regular
basis, I would be leary of buying a cue/case from anyone I did not know.
I would hate to be playing with that cue some day and be confronted when
the true owner spotted me riding the nine.

Scott

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Jul 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/16/97

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John Walkup wrote:

> When they are in a pawn shop I don't worry about it. It is the pawn shop's
> responsibility at that point.

Perhaps not but the law might not be so generous of someone receiving
stolen property, whether they knew it or not.

I'm guessing that neither would the righful owner, should he spot you
using his stolen cue in some pool room.

Scott

John Walkup

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Jul 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/17/97

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John Tate <ta...@wellsfargo.com> writes:

>John Walkup wrote:
>>
>> Bill Gribble <gr...@cs.utexas.edu> writes:
>>
>> >she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) writes:
>> >> I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick
>> >> from a pawn shop.
>>
>> >I'm not a lawyer. Law varies from state to state, but generally if
>> >you buy something in good faith, with reasonable cause to believe that
>> >the seller had clear title to it, it's yours regardless of the
>> >seller's truthfulness. So the pawnshop isn't obligated to give
>> >anything back, and something that you buy from a pawnshop is certainly
>> >yours regardless of whether it got there legitimately or not.
>>
>> If someone steals my cue, and I report it to the police, then I should be
>> able to recover it anytime it is found. Otherwise, you are saying that
>> pawn shops can launder stolen merchandise, which cannot be correct.

>If you buy stolen property, regardless if in good faith or not, it is

>still stolen property, period. This theory is universal State to State.
>In fact, in California, say you pay $100 for a Rolex watch, you are
>presumed by law to know that you are buying stolen property due to the
>price great difference in price and can be arrested for possession of
>stolen property if caught, even if you did not steal it. Since cues and

What if you buy it from an established, licensed business? Is it reasonable
to burden the consumer with the responsibility of knowing the past history
of merchandise in this case? (I imagine that if you buy a cue
off the street you are responsible to a large extent.)

>cases seem to be stolen from pool halls through the country on a regular
>basis, I would be leary of buying a cue/case from anyone I did not know.

Hell, it is some of the people I *do* know that you have to be leery
of. :)

John

John Walkup

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Jul 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/17/97

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Bill Gribble <gr...@cs.utexas.edu> writes:

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Jul 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/18/97

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Tom Bellhouse <alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> writes:

>John Walkup wrote:
>>
>> Bill Gribble <gr...@cs.utexas.edu> writes:
>> (snip)

>> If someone steals my cue, and I report it to the police, then I should be
>> able to recover it anytime it is found. Otherwise, you are saying that
>> pawn shops can launder stolen merchandise, which cannot be correct.

>> John

>John et.al.,

>Finally, getting to the point: What has ever happened to the microchip method of

>identifying cues, in which a tiny electronic "fingerprint' identifying the cue is put
>into the butt (or the case)? Is special equipment needed to detect the chip and
>identify the cue? Is that equipment widely available?

Even serial numbers would help. But cuemakers don't put them on their cues.
I once went to the police after finding out that the cue I had just traded
for might have been stolen. I figured, since the guy who had it stolen probably
misses it, that I would try to get his cue back to him. In any case, the
officer threw up his hands and said "Keep it. There is no way to positively
identify it anyway." (That is the last cue I "buy" off the streets. I don't
need that kind of action.) If anyone can positively id this cue as stolen
(it is a 96' Prather) and show a police report, it's theirs. NO GUESSING.

What else can I do?

So why no serial numbers?

At any rate, I am thinking of taking the bumber off each of the cues I am selling
and putting in some sort of id, so that at least the cue dealer, myself, can identify
it. Anything wrong with this?

John

Esternb

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97

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John wrote:

Serial Numbers are a very good idea John. I have to put them in all of
my cues for insurance purposes. The only cue maker that I know of, that
puts them on all of his cues, is Keith Hannsen of Keith Kustom Kues. I
have never seen one w/o a s/n.

By the way...just to go a different direction....has anybody heard of
any female cuemakers out there? Just curious...

Eric

Esternb

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97

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Ron wrote:

>the only thing worse than a cue thief is a .... well i cant think of
anything
>worse!

Truer words were never spoken Ron.

Eric (who has two cues stolen from him TWICE!!!)

Frank Glenn

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97

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Esternb <est...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970719061...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

>
> John wrote:
>
> >Even serial numbers would help. But cuemakers don't put them on their
> cues.

<<snip>>

David Hodges (Parrot Cue), signs the cue before he wraps it. Some of the
early ones have numbers. He also takes pictures of the cue. Of course these
are custom cues, and are one of a kind. If you have a Muecci, McDermott, or
some other mass produced cue, then there would be no way to tell it from
the other hundreds (thousands?) of cues that look just like it. This alone
is enough to make me want a custom, one of a kind cue.
Frank

John Walkup

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97

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"Frank Glenn" < gle...@mnsinc.com (remove the leading space)> writes:

>Esternb <est...@aol.com> wrote in article
><19970719061...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>
>> John wrote:
>>
>> >Even serial numbers would help. But cuemakers don't put them on their
>> cues.
><<snip>>

>David Hodges (Parrot Cue), signs the cue before he wraps it. Some of the

A signature is useless. We are talking about stolen cues, not faked ones.

>early ones have numbers. He also takes pictures of the cue. Of course these
>are custom cues, and are one of a kind. If you have a Muecci, McDermott, or
>some other mass produced cue, then there would be no way to tell it from
>the other hundreds (thousands?) of cues that look just like it. This alone
>is enough to make me want a custom, one of a kind cue.

As far as I know, you may still have little recourse without an SN.

John

John Walkup

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Jul 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/19/97

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est...@aol.com (Esternb) writes:

> By the way...just to go a different direction....has anybody heard of
>any female cuemakers out there? Just curious...

Females cannot make cues like men can. Everyone knows that. :)

John

Ken K

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97

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You can take out the weight bolt (if it has one) and etch your name on
it, you can make an identifying mark on the tip of the joint screw, you
can put a sticker inside the bumper, fingernail polish or paint marks
inside of a metal joint, there are lots of little unobtrusive ways to
mark a cue.

Ken K

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Jul 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/21/97

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John Walkup wrote:

>
> she...@tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) writes:
>
> >In article <walkup.869013983@dimension>, wal...@dimension.nhn.uoknor.edu
> >(John Walkup) wrote:
>
> >[...]
> >>When they are in a pawn shop I don't worry about it. It is the pawn shop's
> >>responsibility at that point.
>
> >I'm curious about who is responsible after someone buys a stolen cue stick
> >from a pawn shop. When the police take back the stick and return it to
> >its owner, can the buyer get his money back from the pawn shop? If so,
>

> I assume that he could sue the pawn shop at that point. When you buy
> from an established business I don't think it is the customer's
> responsibility to check the legality of the merchandise.
>

> >then how does the shop owner get his money back from the thief? Or what
>

> He doesn't. He bought stolen merchandise, and I imagine he could be
> prosecuted in many states if such is the case. However, I think that
> what usually happens is that the cue is simply returned to its owner,
> and the pawn shop keeper is stuck. He could sue the thief, of course.
>

> >if the stick changed hands a few times between the thief and the shop
> >owner?
>

> Doesn't matter.
>
> BTW, I am no expert on this issue, but I am pretty certain I am right.
> Does anyone know for sure?

John,

I asked a friend who spent a couple of years working checks, bunco and
pawnshop detail at the local P.D. (S.F. Bay Area, CA) and here’s the
gist of what he told me. It appears that while there are laws written to
deal with almost every circumstance, in the real world, what actually
happens in a given situation is very much dependent upon the local legal
system. In this case, an individual has purchased an item from a
pawnshop, and is confronted by the item’s former owner who can prove
that the item belongs to him.

Technically, everyone downstream of the original owner is guilty of
possession of stolen property, but the courts realize that this is
unreasonable. Since a purchase from a legitimate business is involved,
it’s not your ordinary recovered stolen property case. What usually
happens is that the present ‘owner’ is reimbursed by the pawnshop for
the price he paid for the item, and the original owner is offered the
opportunity to buy back the item from the pawnshop at whatever cost the
pawnshop paid the alleged thief. This is usually not a large amount of
money, and there are those (most of us I would say) who would suggest
that any amount is too much. To make matters worse, when an item is
outright sold to a pawnshop instead of being pawned - and most thieves
tend to sell instead of pawn (who could have guessed?) - the seller
receives more money for the item.

It appears that this practice of not ‘sticking’ the pawnshop owner with
the ultimate financial responsibility is due to a symbiotic relationship
between police departments and pawnshop owners. Pawnshop owners are a
good source of police information, and are instrumental in the
apprehension of many criminals. In return, the P.D. does what they can
to maintain this relationship by not unnecessarily harassing the
pawnshop owners. By and large, the pawnshops do try to refrain from
trafficking in stolen goods, and around here they require identification
from, and take photographs of everyone they buy from.

I asked what would happen if the legal owner protested having to pay
*any* amount for his own property, and wanted to sue the pawnshop owner,
and was told that the recovery process through the courts would be long
and expensive - probably more than the item is worth. It turns out that
most individuals go ahead and pay if they want the item back
immediately. It’s definitely a rock/hard place issue. I would be
interested in knowing how other municipalities deal with this one.

John Walkup

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97

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Ken K <elli...@concentric.net> writes:

Yes, and this is what I am doing. However, there is no way to replace the
utility of an SN. When the police recover a pool cue, they don't care about
marks on the joint screw, or stickers under the rubber bumper. To them,
merchandise is identified by serial numbers placed where they can be seen.

John

Sherm Adamson

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97

to

Laurie Franklin is very active in her company (Southwest Cues) and there
are many other cases where a cuemakers wife is part of the team but I
know of no women who make cues on there own. This is probably just due
to the fact that woodworking and machining has traditionally been done
by men. The women who work in related industries, who might have the
background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
to do it right.
I for one, would appreciate input from women players, as to what they
would find appealing in a cue. Men too for that matter, but I already
have some perspective on that.
8^)
Sherm

--
////////////////////////////!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\!///////////////////////////
Sherm Custom Cues
The Finest In Custom Billiard Cues Made To Your Specs.
15 Years Experience
Member "American Cuemakers Association"
3352 Nine Mile Road, Cincinnati, Ohio 45255
Shop (513) 553-2172 Fax (513) 553-0417
e-mail, sher...@iac.net
http://www.iac.net/~shermcue
(Webpage Under Construction)
////////////////////////////!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\!///////////////////////////

John Walkup

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97

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Sherm Adamson <sher...@iac.net> writes:

>John Walkup wrote:
>>
>> est...@aol.com (Esternb) writes:
>>
>> > By the way...just to go a different direction....has anybody heard of
>> >any female cuemakers out there? Just curious...
>>
>> Females cannot make cues like men can. Everyone knows that. :)

>Laurie Franklin is very active in her company (Southwest Cues) and there

>are many other cases where a cuemakers wife is part of the team but I
>know of no women who make cues on there own. This is probably just due
>to the fact that woodworking and machining has traditionally been done
>by men.

Because it is a manly job.

John

Esternb

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Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97

to

Sherm wrote:

>Laurie Franklin is very active in her company (Southwest Cues) and there
>are many other cases where a cuemakers wife is part of the team but I
>know of no women who make cues on there own. This is probably just due
>to the fact that woodworking and machining has traditionally been done

>by men. The women who work in related industries, who might have the
>background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
>the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
>to do it right.
>I for one, would appreciate input from women players, as to what they
>would find appealing in a cue. Men too for that matter, but I already
>have some perspective on that.
>8^)
>Sherm

Thanks for the info Sherm. I had forgotten about Jerry's wife. I do
know that Gordon Harts wife was a big influence in Viking cues...and I
believe that she still is, although I don't know for sure. It just seems
strange that no female cuemakers have appeared yet....hopefully, they will
soon.

Eric

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/22/97

to

est...@aol.com (Esternb) writes:

>Sherm wrote:

>>Laurie Franklin is very active in her company (Southwest Cues) and there
>>are many other cases where a cuemakers wife is part of the team but I
>>know of no women who make cues on there own. This is probably just due
>>to the fact that woodworking and machining has traditionally been done
>>by men. The women who work in related industries, who might have the
>>background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
>>the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
>>to do it right.

Sexist pig!

>>I for one, would appreciate input from women players, as to what they
>>would find appealing in a cue. Men too for that matter, but I already
>>have some perspective on that.

Well, if women have similar tastes in cues as they do in popular music we can
just ignore them. "This is my latest creation, inspired by the careers of
Billy Joel and Phil Collins."

> Thanks for the info Sherm. I had forgotten about Jerry's wife. I do
>know that Gordon Harts wife was a big influence in Viking cues...and I
>believe that she still is, although I don't know for sure. It just seems
>strange that no female cuemakers have appeared yet....hopefully, they will
>soon.

Why? Do we not have enough cuemakers?

Let me know when it is safe to come out.

John

R.

unread,

Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97

to

John Walkup wrote:

[snip]

>
> Well, if women have similar tastes in cues as they do in popular music we can
> just ignore them. "This is my latest creation, inspired by the careers of
> Billy Joel and Phil Collins."

Ummmm . . . huh? I'm assuming this is supposed to be a joke, but I also
assume that jokes are supposed to have punchlines.

Rob A.

R.

unread,

Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97

to

SnookerUSA wrote:
>
> sue-sue-sudeo?
> How about Barry Manilo?...yeeeeeeeeeeeuck.
> I think the punch line is... they all sound the same?
> Especially when being broken in two.

I still don't see it (tho' I applaud the attempt at interpreting it).

>
> Somebody make the bad man stop mommy........

Mark, Mark, evil is only live spelled backward . . . and we all want to
live, don't we? ;)

Rob A.

SnookerUSA

unread,

Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97

to

sue-sue-sudeo?
How about Barry Manilo?...yeeeeeeeeeeeuck.
I think the punch line is... they all sound the same?
Especially when being broken in two.

Somebody make the bad man stop mommy........

>>

Regards,
Mark Kulaga
---
Webmaster: http://www.snookerusa.com
---
Favorite Quotes:
"And my wife's husband."
"I drank what?#@$!" - famous last words of Socrates.
"No matter where you go, there you are" - not sure... Deepack Chopra?

Ashtonne

unread,

Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97

to

Hey Mr. Kulaga,

Are we still on for the Copa tonight at 11:30? I'll be the one with
yellow feathers in my hair and dress cut down to...

;O)

Lol...er...Raquel

>How about Barry Manilo?...yeeeeeeeeeeeuck.

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/23/97

to

"R." <"CheezwhizI'mtired this morn"@sleepy.com> writes:

>John Walkup wrote:

>> Well, if women have similar tastes in cues as they do in popular music we can
>> just ignore them. "This is my latest creation, inspired by the careers of
>> Billy Joel and Phil Collins."

>Ummmm . . . huh? I'm assuming this is supposed to be a joke, but I also
>assume that jokes are supposed to have punchlines.

Uh, oh. I found a Billy Joel fan.

John

Tom Bellhouse

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

> Sherm wrote:
> SNIP

> The women who work in related industries, who might have the
>background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
>the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
>to do it right.

SNIP

>Sherm
>

Sherm,

I think you're right. In addition to playing a little pool, and being an RN,
I'm a glassblower -- not the little glass animals, but bowls, plates, sculpture,
etc. -- "on the pipe" like the Italians do it. Most glassblowers build and
constantly re-build their own equipment, as do most top-notch cue makers.
Over the past 15 years, I have seen (and taught) several women who wanted
to build their own glassblowing studios, but who never had been given the
opportunity to learn the welding, plumbing and wiring skills needed. Most
hired the work done. Some of the women became good glassblowers and wound
up with nice, functional studios, but they were starting with a tremendous
culturally-imposed handicap.

There are a lot more men than women who have the skills at lathe-work,
lamination, and basic wood-working needed to make a good cue. Of those
women who do have those skills, probably none have the playing background
to know what kind of hit they want. You'd need a cross between Jannette Lee
and Rosie the Riveter.

Back to the glass-blowing analogy: What women can contribute (without the
background and technical training) is design skill -- artistic creativity.
That should be true in cue-making, too. Creativity would be welcome. Only
a few top cue-makers are showing me anything new. Cue-makers are proliferating
like rabbits out there, and the more un-imaginative, semi-skilled cuemakers
there are, the less distinction there is between a custom cue and a production
cue. In fact, in many cases, the good production cues are looking better,
hitting better and lasting better than the one-offs by newbies.

I hope all this changes. Maybe somewhere out there is a young woman in high
school who loves wood-working courses, plays good pool, and who will become
obsessed with the idea of creating the best playing cue in the world. Maybe
she will succeed. If she exists, her odds of success are better now than they
were 20 years ago.

Best regards,

Tom Bellhouse

SnookerUSA

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

> Maybe
>she will succeed. If she exists, her odds of success are better now than
>they
>were 20 years ago.
>
>Best regards,
>
>

Major Sip.

This is amazing, coming from Sherm, and any man in the 20th Century.
I just participated and helped officiate in "Frank Oliva's Women's
League".
Their 30th year fundraiser.

I must say some of those women have beautiful strokes, and it made me
think of some of our top women pros. And now I hear of women not
being able to perform as well as men in the cuemaking arena?

That is absurd.
Not only do I think given some time and apprenticeship(sp) by any of our
top cuemaker (MEN) any women whom was willing to put her mind to
the long hours it took would eventually excell at this craft. And it
would
be my grand honor to purchase her first cue!

Any takers? Anyone know anyone?
I'm feeling frisky today!

Sherm Adamson

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

SnookerUSA wrote:
>
> > Maybe
> >she will succeed. If she exists, her odds of success are better now than
> >they
> >were 20 years ago.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >
>
> Major Sip.
>
> This is amazing, coming from Sherm, and any man in the 20th Century.

> And now I hear of women not
> being able to perform as well as men in the cuemaking arena?
>
> That is absurd.
> Not only do I think given some time and apprenticeship(sp) by any of our
> top cuemaker (MEN) any women whom was willing to put her mind to
> the long hours it took would eventually excell at this craft. And it
> would
> be my grand honor to purchase her first cue!
>
>

Mark,

Apparently you got mixed up on the postings. The opening quote was not
mine, it was a responce to my posting. What I said, roughly, was that
there are women in the field, mostly working with their cuemaker
husbands. I also said that probably the reason there weren't any ladies
doing it on their own was due to the fact that the woodworking and
machinine backgrounds needed to make the equipment used in cuemaking was
not common to women. And if it was, they probably had other things to do
with their time. It takes quite a bit of money, time, equipment and
determination to make cues professionally. It's a commitment that most
women (and the smart men) usually decline. I certainly do not think that
women are incapable of making cues, if anything, they're smart enough
not to.
Maybe I should quit posting my opinions in the NG, it seems lately that
everything I've written has either been misinterpreted, misquoted, or
taken out of context.

Bob Jewett

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

Sherm Adamson (sher...@iac.net) wrote:

: Maybe I should quit posting my opinions in the NG, it seems lately that

: everything I've written has either been misinterpreted, misquoted, or
: taken out of context.

Yes, it is sad that some readers/writers are so careless and sloppy in
their Internet experience. It is easy enough to go back and re-read a
string to make sure you're not jumping on the wrong person and to edit
quotes down to what is really needed to make your point and to re-edit
a posting to make it less abrasive in case you happen to be off-base.
Such effort on the part of the poster saves much more effort and
irritation for the thousands of readers. It is especially sad when
knowledgeable contributors are driven away by the ignorant or clumsy.

Bob Jewett

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

snook...@aol.com (SnookerUSA) writes:

>> Maybe
>>she will succeed. If she exists, her odds of success are better now than
>>they
>>were 20 years ago.
>>
>>Best regards,

>Major Sip.

>This is amazing, coming from Sherm, and any man in the 20th Century.

>I just participated and helped officiate in "Frank Oliva's Women's
>League".
>Their 30th year fundraiser.

>I must say some of those women have beautiful strokes, and it made me

>think of some of our top women pros. And now I hear of women not

>being able to perform as well as men in the cuemaking arena?

How about leaving some of the context in Sherm's post so that we
can judge for ourselves?

>That is absurd.
>Not only do I think given some time and apprenticeship(sp) by any of our
>top cuemaker (MEN) any women whom was willing to put her mind to

Did Sherm ever say anything to the contrary?

>the long hours it took would eventually excell at this craft. And it
>would
>be my grand honor to purchase her first cue!

Kissy, kissy. Smooch, smooch. :)

John

LEON3MN

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

In article <33DB82...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net>, Tom Bellhouse
<alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> writes:

>> Sherm wrote:
>> SNIP
>
>> The women who work in related industries, who might have the
>>background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
>>the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
>>to do it right.
>
>SNIP
>
>>Sherm

Tom wrote:

>Sherm,

>(snip)

>
>There are a lot more men than women who have the skills at lathe-work,
>lamination, and basic wood-working needed to make a good cue. Of those
>women who do have those skills, probably none have the playing background

>to know what kind of hit they want. You'd need a cross between Jannette
Lee
>and Rosie the Riveter.

>(snip)

>I hope all this changes. Maybe somewhere out there is a young woman in
high
>school who loves wood-working courses, plays good pool, and who will
become
>obsessed with the idea of creating the best playing cue in the world.

Maybe
>she will succeed. If she exists, her odds of success are better now than
>they
>were 20 years ago.
>

>Tom Bellhouse

It's no surprise that the best cuemakers are also pretty good pool
shooters (Stroud, Sherm, Chudy and Teeter come to mind). So the point is
well taken that a combination of good mechanical skills as well as a
talent in pool are needed for a good cuemaker, and that the dearth of such
dual-facultied women account for their absence in the field.

LeonW
San Francisco, CA

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

Tom Bellhouse <alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> writes:

>Back to the glass-blowing analogy: What women can contribute (without the
>background and technical training) is design skill -- artistic creativity.
>That should be true in cue-making, too. Creativity would be welcome. Only
>a few top cue-makers are showing me anything new. Cue-makers are proliferating

I completely disagree. When it comes to artistic sense cuemakers are outdoing
almost any of their artistic counterparts, IMO. In fact, I consider
cuemaking to be THE TOP in artistic design over the last ten years. And they
didn't need the NEA to fund it.

John

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/27/97

to

Sherm Adamson <sher...@iac.net> writes:

>Apparently you got mixed up on the postings. The opening quote was not
>mine, it was a responce to my posting. What I said, roughly, was that
>there are women in the field, mostly working with their cuemaker
>husbands. I also said that probably the reason there weren't any ladies
>doing it on their own was due to the fact that the woodworking and
>machinine backgrounds needed to make the equipment used in cuemaking was
>not common to women. And if it was, they probably had other things to do
>with their time. It takes quite a bit of money, time, equipment and
>determination to make cues professionally. It's a commitment that most
>women (and the smart men) usually decline. I certainly do not think that
>women are incapable of making cues, if anything, they're smart enough
>not to.

>Maybe I should quit posting my opinions in the NG, it seems lately that

>everything I've written has either been misinterpreted, misquoted, or
>taken out of context.

Gee, sounds suspiciously like political correctness is getting to you, Sherm.

IMO, women are no smarter or dumber than men. They, up to now, simply
don't want to make pool cues. Fine. Why is there some inherent need
to get women involved in the cuemaking industry? Why would anyone go out
and buy a cue simply because it was made by a woman? If they put out
a better cue for the money than any of the men, then I will buy their
product. If not, I will shop elsewhere. I don't discriminate against them,
but neither do I kiss up to them. How do you think the woman would feel
if she found out that people only liked buying her cues because of their
incessant need to feel good about themselves? "I bought a cue from a woman,
and therefore, I must be a nice person. I am GOOD."

There you have it. I am evil. :)

John

SnookerUSA

unread,

Jul 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/28/97

to

>John Walkup wrote:
>>
>> est...@aol.com (Esternb) writes:
>>
>> > By the way...just to go a different direction....has anybody heard
of
>> >any female cuemakers out there? Just curious...
>>
>> Females cannot make cues like men can. Everyone knows that. :)
>>

>> John

>
>Laurie Franklin is very active in her company (Southwest Cues) and there
>are many other cases where a cuemakers wife is part of the team but I
>know of no women who make cues on there own. This is probably just due
>to the fact that woodworking and machining has traditionally been done

>by men. The women who work in related industries, who might have the

>background needed to make cues, probably wouldn't have much interest in
>the long hours it takes to make cues or all of the equipment necessary
>to do it right.

>I for one, would appreciate input from women players, as to what they
>would find appealing in a cue. Men too for that matter, but I already
>have some perspective on that.

>8^)
>Sherm
>
>--
>////////////////////////////!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\!///////////////////////////
> Sherm Custom Cues
> The Finest In Custom Billiard Cues Made To Your Specs.
> 15 Years Experience
> Member "American Cuemakers Association"
> 3352 Nine Mile Road, Cincinnati, Ohio 45255
> Shop (513) 553-2172 Fax (513) 553-0417
> e-mail, sher...@iac.net
> http://www.iac.net/~shermcue
> (Webpage Under Construction)
>////////////////////////////!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\!///////////////////////////
>
>

Sherm,

You were absolutely correct.
Very sorry about that.
;O)

Mark

Tom Bellhouse

unread,

Jul 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/30/97

to

John,

Learn to read.

I collect cues, old and new, as I can afford them. They can be beautiful,
functional art objects. Examples: Thomas Wayne. Sherm. Jim Buss.
Bill Stroud. There are creative cuemakers out there making fine cues, but
they have been doing it a while. But the early productions of most wannabe
cuemakers are jerkoff copies of better work, totally lacking in design originality.
It's "baby's first steps" in cuemaking.

It's hard to compare "wonderfulness" across art forms. Which is better, the
Mona Lisa or the Beethoven's Fourth Symphony?

As for the NEA reference, be careful or you'll inadvertantly win the Jesse Helms
Asshole Of The Year award, named for the asshole of the century. But let's not
get off into politics. Precious little creativity there.

Regards,

Tom Bellhouse

John Walkup

unread,

Jul 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/31/97

to

Tom Bellhouse <alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> writes:

>John Walkup wrote:
>>
>> Tom Bellhouse <alt...@XSPAMcyberhighway.net> writes:
>>
>> >Back to the glass-blowing analogy: What women can contribute (without the
>> >background and technical training) is design skill -- artistic creativity.
>> >That should be true in cue-making, too. Creativity would be welcome. Only
>> >a few top cue-makers are showing me anything new. Cue-makers are proliferating
>>
>> I completely disagree. When it comes to artistic sense cuemakers are outdoing
>> almost any of their artistic counterparts, IMO. In fact, I consider
>> cuemaking to be THE TOP in artistic design over the last ten years. And they
>> didn't need the NEA to fund it.
>>
>> John

>John,

>Learn to read.

"Creativity would be welcome" implies that creativity is lacking.
Learn to write.

>I collect cues, old and new, as I can afford them. They can be beautiful,
>functional art objects. Examples: Thomas Wayne. Sherm. Jim Buss.
>Bill Stroud. There are creative cuemakers out there making fine cues, but
>they have been doing it a while. But the early productions of most wannabe
>cuemakers are jerkoff copies of better work, totally lacking in design originality.
>It's "baby's first steps" in cuemaking.

Yeah, this doesn't happen in music, or sculpture. :)

>It's hard to compare "wonderfulness" across art forms. Which is better, the
>Mona Lisa or the Beethoven's Fourth Symphony?

Which is better? Beethoven's Fifth or the Dead Kennedy's "I Kill Children"?
We can play this game all night.

>As for the NEA reference, be careful or you'll inadvertantly win the Jesse Helms
>Asshole Of The Year award, named for the asshole of the century. But let's not
>get off into politics. Precious little creativity there.

Okay, so how much money did Thomas Wayne get from the NEA to produce his wonderful
designs?

Just put the dollar amount right here: _____________

In fact, put the dollar amount of ALL NEA FUNDING TOWARDS CUEMAKING: _________

If cuemakers can put out wonderful works of art without government assistance,
why can't other artists? (Let me guess: Pool players are rich, so selling to
them is easy.) And how did art get created before the NEA was formed?

John