Balls: Clean or Dirty?
Priveye
http://www.fastlarrypool.com/asklarry/balls.htm
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited"...James Thurber
Patrick Johnson
(true) and heavier cue balls follow more easily (also true). Then he
says the Super Aramith Pro CB draws AND follows better. Must be lighter
and heavier.
Read what these "experts" say with a grain of salt.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Tony DeAngelo
Patrick Johnson wrote:
> Interesting, all right. He says lighter cue balls draw more easily
> (true) and heavier cue balls follow more easily (also true). Then he
> says the Super Aramith Pro CB draws AND follows better. Must be lighter
> and heavier.
He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
it weighs the same as the other balls. Later he says the red dot is
lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
only way to get true play. A thought: since the author's bias is
towards artistic billiards perhaps his notions of playability might be
different than a tournement players (i.e. he might be more interested in
getting the most "stuff" on the balls and in making the cueball move as
much as possible).
Patrick Johnson
> He also says the CB that comes with the Centennial set is junk because
> it weighs the same as the other balls. Later he says the red dot is
> lighter then later he says the red dot weighs the same and that is the
> only way to get true play.
I've heard so many claims about the differences between the blue circle
balls that come with Centennials and the red circle ball that comes by
itself that I decided to compare them semi-scientifically today.
Lacking an accurate scale, I resorted to homemade methods.
Using a new set of Centennials with its blue circle cue ball and a new
red circle cue ball (on fairly young Granito cloth), I hit a bunch of
"challenge" draw shots like this:
START(
%Aa6O6%Pg7O6%_r6O9%`c1O7%ag7O5%b_4P0%cC6P0%da4O5
)END
... hitting as low as possible on the CB and counting only the shots
where the CB ended up nearly frozen to the foot rail. The idea is that
you'd have to hit harder with a heavier CB and easier with a lighter cue
ball to get them to the same point. Therefore the OB would travel
farther with a heavier CB and vice verse.
Comparing the distance the OB traveled for about twenty successful shots
with each CB (where the CB ended up frozen or nearly frozen to the foot
rail), there seemed to be no significant difference. Both OBs traveled
an average of 14.5 diamonds, with little variance from shot to shot.
BTW, on close inspection there also seemed to be no significant
difference in the surface glossiness/smoothness of the two CBs.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Tony DeAngelo
dimension. BTW, you didn't try these tests with a Predator shaft did you?
Fast Larry Guninger
Hi this is Fast Larry, the red circle is lighter and smaller than the
blue circle so that causes it it out draw it. The blue cirlce has the
same finish as the object balls, the red circle has a better finish so
its hotter. Yes, he's right, I throw the blue cirlces away, they
suck. The super pro aramith has the same polish as their 3-cushion
balls and it is the best ball to play with now, plus it is the same
size as the object balls which is good.
Patrick Johnson
> ... the red circle is lighter and smaller than the blue circle
Not to a degree that seems to matter to pool players. Not even to a
degree that seems detectable.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Samiel
I guess it's a mental thing with me then. I've always been able to
draw better with the red circle than the blue circle. I can
definitely tell a difference when I play since the poolhall I play at
can have either one randomly placed in the rack I get.
- Samiel
Patrick Johnson
> ... I've always been able to
> draw better with the red circle than the blue circle. I can
> definitely tell a difference when I play since the poolhall I play at
> can have either one randomly placed in the rack I get.
Try a test with an assistant: shoot a bunch of identical draw shots,
but have the assistant place the cue ball for each shot, selecting a red
or blue circle randomly and placing it so you can't see the circle. Hit
plenty of shots with each kind with the assistant writing down which
kind of CB is used and the result for each shot (but not telling you
until the test is over).
Of course, the CBs should be of similar age, condition, etc., and not
easily distinguishable by eye. Ideally, the assistant would have
several of each to use and would select from them randomly (if they're
new, I guess you can skip this part).
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Frank Glenn
patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net says...
:|:Of course, the CBs should be of similar age, condition, etc., and not
:|:easily distinguishable by eye.
:|:
The red and blue circle are made of different resin. They may weigh
the same, but look a little different, and may play different. This
is actually a good test. Be sure to post the results. And also be
sure to use NEW balls, otherwise they may not be the same size!
Frank
Ste Williams
<snip>
A quick observation on this... I was given a set from a club owner in
Austria a few months ago after an event, and this set has a green
circle on the CB.
Has anyone seen one of these / tried the weight ?
Just curious to know.
Ste.
Bob Dzuricky
> dimension.
I got 2 sets of Centennial balls (with the blue circle cue ball) when they
re-issued them back in the mid 80s (?). The original plan, as I heard it,
was to only sell 500 sets total. Well, you know how that goes. Anyway, I
play with one set while the other has never been used. I also have a few
new Red Circle cue balls from the same era. Since Tony asked, I measured &
weighed a selection for comparison. All balls have never been used. The
Blue Circle cue is the one included with the set. See results at
http://www.dzcues.com/hidden.htm
Bob
Samiel
I'm not sure if I could find 2 new ones. I'll have to order some...
lol.
- Samiel
Patrick Johnson
> I got 2 sets of Centennial balls (with the blue circle cue ball) when they
> re-issued them back in the mid 80s (?).
> ... I also have a few
> new Red Circle cue balls from the same era. Since Tony asked, I measured &
> weighed a selection for comparison.
Your numbers show this:
All the Centennial balls (including the CB) are within 1/2% of their
average weight, except the 1-ball, which is almost 1% lighter than average.
The two red-circle CBs are almost 1% lighter and almost 2% lighter than
the average Centennial weight.
The lightest red-circle CB is also the smallest ball overall, but the
other red-circle CB is right on the average size of all the rest.
So one of the red-circle CBs is within the weight variance found among
the Centennials themselves (it could be the 1-ball), and the other isn't
by about 1% (and is also smaller). This is a small selection from which
to draw any conclusions, but it doesn't sound like much difference to me.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Tony DeAngelo
compelled to throw away new Centennial cue balls can mail them to me
instead.
Martin
circle and red circle that are not made by Aramith. I own several cue
balls and set of Centennial and Super Pro balls all in new condition.
Red Circle 5.9 oz
Blue Circle 5.9 oz
Aramith Logo 5.9 oz
Aramith "pro cup" (red "polka-dot" ball) 5.8 oz
The phoney red circles used at one poolroom I go to probably weigh
close to 5.3 oz. I'm going to take my scale there next time and weigh
one. I much prefer a ball that weighs the same as the others.
Extremely light cue balls ruin the game in my opinion. The lack of
equipment standardization including extremly large or extremely
restrictive pockets contributes to the overall stagnation of pocket
billiards.
Martin
Patrick Johnson <patrick...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<1016md9...@news.supernews.com>...
Jack Stein
> The phoney red circles used at one poolroom I go to probably weigh
> close to 5.3 oz. I'm going to take my scale there next time and weigh
> one.
Good idea, I wish I had the equipment to do that, it has to be
interesting to see what all the bitching is really about...
I much prefer a ball that weighs the same as the others.
Yes.
> Extremely light cue balls ruin the game in my opinion.
Yes.
> The lack of
> equipment standardization including extremly large or extremely
> restrictive pockets contributes to the overall stagnation of pocket
> billiards.
I thought it was all the gambling and smoking that was doing this, all
while more and more people are playing and watching the game. Seriously
though, you are right, and the best thing that can happen for the game
is all the pay tables on earth start using Diamond Smart tables or some
similar technology that allows real cue balls to be used that actually
work as they should.
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
Cookie
"Jack Stein" <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Z38Sb.135183$Rc4.1053590@attbi_s54...
JAM
Subject to check, I don't believe this to be true, but my opinion is based on
hearsay from players.
Shawn Putnam claims he "grew up on the red-circle cue-ball," and he likes it
because it is lighter than the blue-dot. He stated this to me at Capital City
Classic in Philly. KM swears that the blue-dot cue-ball is heavier than the
red-dot. He used to always want to play with the blue-dot, but has now
adjusted to the red-dot since it is being used so often.
Most tournaments nowadays use the red-dot cue-ball, and, again, subject to
check, I believe it to be lighter.
JAM
Patrick Johnson
JAM:
> Subject to check, I don't believe this to be true
I don't believe so either. I remember somebody saying that Saluc makes
them from different resins (although maybe to the same dimensions and
tolerances).
> Most tournaments nowadays use the red-dot cue-ball, and, again, subject to
> check, I believe it to be lighter.
Pro players who have agreed with you certainly have a more sensitive
feel for such things, but I don't notice any difference and I use both
frequently. I've even done some simple tests to measure the amount of
draw possible with each and found no difference that I could detect. So
for me at least any difference in weight is negligible.
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Frank Glenn
jama...@aol.comnojunk says...
:|:Shawn Putnam claims he "grew up on the red-circle cue-ball," and he likes it
:|:because it is lighter than the blue-dot.
I have a digital postal scale, so here is what I get:
OZ GM
5.6 161 red circle (older)
5.7 164 red circle (old, but not as old as the other red)
5.8 167 blue circle (oldest)
5.7 163 no circle Arimeth (newest)
5.9 168 plugged (bar box ball)
5.8 166 1 ball Arimeth
5.9 168 1 ball centennial
5.8 165 9 ball Arimeth
5.9 168 9 ball Centennial
I bought the Centennials in 1998, I bought the red circles at
different times after that (as well as the plugged, which I do not
use much, if ever). I bought the Arimeth green box set last year
around September or so. The blue and red balls are obviously made of
different material and are different color. I have seen posts about
different resins before. I think it was Tom Simpson who posted this
after asking Saluk about it.
Conclusions:
The older, more used red circle weighs less, it's worn, most likely
The newer red circle and the Arimeth weigh pretty close
The blue circle weighs a little more than the other cueballs, but
about the same as the Centennial balls
The Arimeth cueball and ball set weigh about the same
The Arimeth set weighs less than the Centennials
Whether the cueball is lighter than the rack balls may well depend on
which brand of balls you use, and in any case, the differences are
small.
Frank
Cookie
but.....
How it was explained to me by a friend that is in the business and has had
training on the differences between everything they make was like this.
They are the same ball. Before the Super Pro's, Saluc's best Aramith ball
and the Brunswick ball was the exact same thing. Same materials and
tollerances. They Brunswick wanted them cosmically different so they could
market them themselves. So the red and blue circle is the same ball, but
different colors because it was made for Brunswick.
....and now there is the Super Pro which is made to higher standards than
any of the balls even the Brunswick balls. Higher tolerances and
individually weighed for a perfect matched set.
I'll have to ask him specifically what the differences between all their
sets of balls are again. I thought it was pretty interesting. You can find
tons of his auctions on eBay under the user ID of joerackem or here is the
link to his store. His prices are pretty competitive on most stuff
especially the balls. http://www.stores.ebay.com/nielsensbilliards
"JAM" <jama...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040217130437...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Martin
called "red circle" cue balls. The ones from Aramith are similar in
weight to the blue circle and logo cueball and pro cup cueball. On
the genuine Aramith red circle, the red circle is thick and very
distinct. The ball also is more creamy in color--or at least mine is.
I've also played with some light blue circle cueballs that were very
old and worn down.
The impostor red circle balls have a weaker red circle and weigh way
less. Some of the impostor balls even have a sticker applied to
them when they are new that says "Aramith." All the regulation cue
balls I have weigh in at 5.9oz on my scale. I'm going to take my
scale to the local room that uses the phoney cueballs and weigh a few
of them. Whats even weirder is that at this place some of the light
balls are also old and worn down and noticeably smaller and lighter
than some of the others. Might as well play with an American Snooker
ball!
I can see how some would embrace the distorted game to be had with a
light cueball. You can draw and spin the ball like crazy. Among
other things a notably lighter cueball takes away the top of the
cueball for all pocket billiard games. I have been asking pros what
they prefer in a cueball and I have yet to hear one say they prefer
the lighter ball--but so far my sample is small. I'll keep asking.
Martin
Patrick Johnson <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message news:<1034o1v...@news.supernews.com>...
Vader93490
>red-dot. He used to always want to play with the blue-dot, but has now
>adjusted to the red-dot since it is being used so often.
I agree with this statement. When I tried a blue circle, I found it to be
somewhat heavier than the red circle, but not as heavy as the oversized cue
ball on bar tables.
For me, the red circle gives a better sense of control than any other cue ball
I've tried to date when compared to blue circles and the SA "squiggly S" cue
ball.
Fred Agnir
> I have not personally talked with Saluc about this subject.
>
> but.....
>
I have via e-mail.
> How it was explained to me by a friend that is in the business and has had
> training on the differences between everything they make was like this.
>
> They are the same ball. Before the Super Pro's, Saluc's best Aramith ball
> and the Brunswick ball was the exact same thing. Same materials and
> tollerances. They Brunswick wanted them cosmically different so they could
> market them themselves. So the red and blue circle is the same ball, but
> different colors because it was made for Brunswick.
>
It is true that Brunswick Centennial blue circles ended up being made
with the same material as the Aramith Cueball. But that's the Red
Triangle and subsequent Red Aramith Logo cueball. The Red Champion
Circle Cueball is made from a slightly different material (a carom
resin), according to Saluc.
Here's the link to Tom Simpson's posts:
Fred
Martin
one of the places I play were only .1 to .2 of an ounce lighter than
other cueballs I mentioned. That is they weighed betweeen 5.7 and 5.8
ounces when I weighed them last night. I could hardly believe such a
small difference would have such a dramatic effect on how the ball
plays.
Even though I prefer a ball that weighs the same as the rest of the
set I do need to learn how to adjust/cope and stop my bitching.
Over and out,
Martin
jazz...@lycos.com (Martin) wrote in message news:<2edb2095.04021...@posting.google.com>...
Steve.
> ...
> Conclusions:
> The older, more used red circle weighs less, it's worn, most likely
>
If it is safe to assume that the older ball is lighter due to wearing,
is it also safe to assume that the wear would most likely be uneven
and result in an out of round ball? If so, what would be the impact of
that upon the play of the cue ball? Should a cue ball due to it's
involvement in every shot be replaced periodically due to wear?
Just some thoughts.
Steve.
JAM
wearing, is it also safe to assume that the wear would most likely be uneven
and result in an out of round ball? If so, what would be the impact of that
upon the play of the cue ball?"
It is thought in some circles that the blue-dot cue-ball, even though ever so
slightly heavier than the red-dot cue-ball, reacts differently when a lot of
english is used. Players who use extreme english may notice the difference
more (IMO).
I grew up playing with the big cue-ball on the bar table, and when the smaller
weighted cue-ball came on the scene with the newer bar boxes, I had to adjust
my englishes, what few I do possess in my skills set.
I asked Larry Liscotti one time why Earl Strickland kept wanting to have the
balls cleaned thoroughly before every match. Earl seemed obsessed with having
clean balls before he played.
Larry went on to explain in depth how one piece of dirt can affect the break,
and his opinion was that Earl's break is so fine-tuned that a dirt particle may
throw it off in some way. I remember thinking at the time that this seemed
incredulous, wondering if Larry was pulling my leg.
BTW, is there a difference between the red-dot and red-circle cue ball?
JAM
lfigueroa
was on the end rail and had a long distance combo I had to shoot jacked up
with some low english. It wasn't that hard a shot and almost any hit on the
first ball would have made it. I think the light cue ball just squirted out
of the way when I hit it and I didn't even hit the ball. I so shocked all I
could do was stare at the table trying to figure whaddahey had just
happened.
Lou Figueroa
"Martin" <jazz...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:2edb2095.04021...@posting.google.com...
Steve Ellis
>
>
>Hi this is Fast Larry, the red circle is lighter and smaller than the
>blue circle so that causes it it out draw it. The blue cirlce has the
>same finish as the object balls, the red circle has a better finish so
>its hotter. Yes, he's right, I throw the blue cirlces away, they
>suck. The super pro aramith has the same polish as their 3-cushion
>balls and it is the best ball to play with now, plus it is the same
>size as the object balls which is good.
I just checked my cue balls this morning. The red circle was indeed lighter, but not
smaller around than the blue circle. However, it should be noted that the blue circle was
exactly the same weight as the Centennial ball set it came with, thus in my mind making it
the PROPER cue ball to use with that set. The red dot was the exact same weight (as close
as I could tell with my analog scale) as the Aramith cue ball (the one with the funny
squiggles) that came with my premium ball set and both these were the same weight as the
object balls that came with that set. Thus making them the PROPER cue balls to use with
that set.
IMHO, the cue ball should match the object balls it is being used with. I know that you
trick shot guys like gimicks like lighter cue balls and waxed cloth to make your trick
shooting easier, but I think for competition in non trick shot games the equipment should
match.
The blue circle cue ball does NOT suck, such statements are pure non-sensiblel hyperbole.
Steve.
Jack Stein
Greg/Diamond
80's was testing the elasticity of the balls. I found different cue
balls with the same size and weight actually playing different. One
would play lighter. It would draw easier and follow
harder.............. Further testing in which we would drop the balls
from a predetermined height to a steel surface resulted in the ball
that played lighter actually bounced higher than the other ball. It
was said to be more elastic. When attempting a draw shot it would
bounce off the object ball more and this added energy made it travel a
greater distance..... On the same note while attempting a follow shot
it would take a wider arc when hit with greater
force...........Greg/Diamond
JAM
blue-dot cue-balls. Only a handful of players noticed it and mentioned the
cue-ball differences to the TD, especially if and when they lost their match.
The TD explained that when he arrived at the pool room, there were cue-balls
with no dots, plain. So the TD had some blue-dots in his car and exchanged the
no-dots with the blue-dots, thinking, I guess, any dot is better than a no-dot.
To be clear, cue-balls come in red-dot, blue-dot, red-circle, no-dot, the red
squiggly lines, and a polka-dot. General consensus is most players like the
red-dot the best, or maybe cue-ball preference is regional.
JAM
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
"JAM" <jama...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040224132416...@mb-m20.aol.com...
JAM
That's a new one on me, the red triangle cue ball.
If we include the bar-box in the mix, you have the big cue-ball, "mud" ball and
the weighted cue-ball, although I am wondering if there is a difference between
the infamous "mud" ball and weighted cue-ball.
JAM
Mike Page
jama...@aol.comnojunk (JAM) wrote:
> Lou Figueroa posts: "Don't forget the red triangle cue ball."
>
> That's a new one on me, the red triangle cue ball. [...]
It doesn't roll very well, but it's easy to see in the snow.
Patrick Johnson
> ... cue-balls come in red-dot, blue-dot, red-circle, no-dot, the red
> squiggly lines, and a polka-dot.
The cue ball that comes with Brunswick Centennials is a blue-circle
(made by Saluc). This is probably the most common cue ball for 9-foot
tables other than the red-dot (also by Saluc).
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Frank Glenn
patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net says...
:|:The cue ball that comes with Brunswick Centennials is a blue-circle
:|:tables other than the red-dot (also by Saluc).
:|:
Although I have seen red "dot" balls, the common ball around here is
a red "circle". It's sometimes called a red dot, but is in fact a
circle. Is that what you meant, or were you referring to the cheap
rip off actually red "dot" POS?
Frank
JAM
a blue-circle (made by Saluc). This is probably the most common cue ball for
9-foot tables other than the red-dot (also by Saluc)."
If the blue-circle, as you put it, is the most common cue-ball for 9-foot
tables, it is curious why the red-dot cue-ball is used in most tournaments
these days.
When is the last time a blue-dot has been used in a major tournament?
JAM
lfigueroa
triangle cue ball -- the triangle is on the ball, sorta like the red
circle. It plays a smidge heavier than the red circle, IMO.
Lou Figueroa
"Mike Page" <mike...@ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote in message
news:mike.page-19BBE...@news.supernews.com...
Patrick Johnson
> ... other than the red-dot (also by Saluc).
Sorry, I meant "other than the red-CIRCLE".
pj
chgo
Patrick Johnson
> Although I have seen red "dot" balls, the common ball around here is
> a red "circle".
Yeah, I mis-typed. I meant red-circle.
pj
chgo
Mike Page
jama...@aol.comnojunk (JAM) wrote:
JAM, you need to read his sentence again
Patrick Johnson
> Patrick Johnson posts: "The cue ball that comes with Brunswick Centennials is
> a blue-circle (made by Saluc). This is probably the most common cue ball for
> 9-foot tables other than the red-dot (also by Saluc)."
> If the blue-circle, as you put it, is the most common cue-ball for 9-foot
> tables, it is curious why the red-dot cue-ball is used in most tournaments
> these days.
I'm numbering these responses for clarity, not (this time) to be a smart
ass:
1. I meant to say red-CIRCLE, not red-dot.
2. I said the blue-circle is the most common OTHER THAN the red-circle.
3. I think (maybe) we see red-circle CBs the most because they're the
most common *replacement* cue balls in pool halls.
4. I think players like red-circle CBs because that's what they're used
to (since we see them the most).
5. I think they're used the most in tournaments because they're what
players like best (because they're used to them because they're seen the
most, etc., etc.).
6. You did mean to say red-CIRCLEs are used the most (not red-DOT), right?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
JAM
I think I read it correctly, Mike.
Patrick stated, "...the blue-circle is probably the most common cue-ball for
9-foot tables, other than the red-dot...."
I responded, "If the blue-circle...is the most common cue-ball for the 9-foot
table, it is curious why the red-dot cue-ball is used in most tournaments...."
JAM
JAM
on the ball, sorta like the red circle. It plays a smidge heavier than the red
circle, IMO."
So is the red triangle cue-ball the same weight as the blue-dot or blue-circle
cue-ball, which is heavier than the red-dot or red-circle cue-ball?
JAM
Tony DeAngelo
red-dot (or red circle) cue ball is the most common, followed by the
blue circle, or Centennial cue ball. When you say "if the
blue-circle...is the most commmon cue-ball for the 9-foot table," you
chopped off the "other than the red-dot" part. It's as if PJ wrote
about "Poolhall Junkies" "It's incredible that this piece of trash was
made" and you quoted him as saying "It's incredible!".
The blue-circle cue ball is used in many tournements which use the
Centennial balls. Many WPBA events for example, and half the
tournements in my town use Centennial balls, including the blue circle
cue ball.
Steve Ellis
>...
>To be clear, cue-balls come in red-dot, blue-dot, red-circle, no-dot, the red
>squiggly lines, and a polka-dot. General consensus is most players like the
>red-dot the best, or maybe cue-ball preference is regional.
>
>JAM
You left of the blue squiggly line, blue with the Arimith Premium, red with the Arimith
Super Pro. You also left of the blue circle, but you mentioned it in a post further down
the line.
JAM
A poorly constructed sentence (IMO).
What region of the country are you in that has "many tournaments which use
Centennial balls"?
JAM
Tony DeAngelo
Now I get it. You're being deliberately argumentative. I'm sorry, I
took your post at face value. You win. Nobody uses Centennial balls.
Happy now?
Frank Glenn
:|:The blue-circle cue ball is used in many tournements which use the
:|:tournements in my town use Centennial balls, including the blue circle
:|:cue ball.
:|:
Years ago you could only get a blue circle ball with a new set of
Centennials. The red circle ball was the replacement ball when one
was needed. That's why there are so many around. Now you can get a
blue circle by itself, but this has only been recent (last couple of
years, I think).
Frank <-just thought you might like to know this
Smorgass Bored
line, Mud ball, etc., etc., it makes absolutely NO difference to my
game, whatsoever..
imo,
Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~
JAM
sorry, I
took your post at face value. You win. Nobody uses Centennial balls. Happy
now?"
No, Tony, I'm not. My inquiry was a serious one.
When I first embarked on the tournament trail with KM, he always made the
comment that he liked the "blue-dot cue ball," as he calls them, and that he
did not like the lighter-weight red-dots.
Seeing more red-dots at major tournaments, I was wondering if the popularity of
one cue ball versus another might have been a regional preference, and so I
asked you the question, hoping to hear your sincere response.
Imagine red and blue. I do.
I think about it day and night.
It's only right.
To think about the ball you love,
Whether it's light.
The blue-dot is better!
If I should play a game,
invest a dime,
I want to know which ball is used,
to ease my mind.
The only one for me is blue,
and blue for me.
So happy together
I can't see me playing somebody like you,
with all my might.
If we did, I'd have to make sure
it is blue for a fair fight.
Me and blue
And blue and me
No matter how they toss the dice
It had to be
The only one for me is blue,
and blue for me.
So happy together.
JAM
JAM
triangle, Red squiggly line, Mud ball, etc., etc., it makes absolutely NO
And neither do I, but most players who have skills above my level seem to
notice a tremendous difference and experience difficulties when switching from
one to another.
JAM
Vader93490
>
The only red triangle ball I've heard about used to come with the older sets of
SA Pro balls.
Ron Shepard
vader...@aol.comnojunk (Vader93490) wrote:
I think the red triangle cue balls were used the first couple of
years, about '95-'96, and then they switched to the squiggly-red-S
cue balls for the Super-Arimith Pro sets. Here is the set of
replacement balls at Muellers:
http://www.poolndarts.com/store.cfm/cat/80.cfm
They apparently do not have either the red triangle or the
squiggly-red-S cue balls, but they do have some black circle balls
that no one else has mentioned yet.
As far as how the various cue balls play, an important factor is the
weight in relation to the object balls. For example, I think the
common red-circle cue balls (new) play a little heavy with
Centennials, but they play a little light with SA Pros. Of course,
after the cue ball is worn down (and they do wear faster than the
ojbect balls), then it will play light no matter what are the object
balls.
The other important factor, besides weight, is how smoothly the
surface is polished and how that surface wears over time. I think
this is why the red circle cue balls are so popular (and relatively
expensive). They seem to be highly polished when new, and they seem
to wear more evenly and smoothly than most other cue balls.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Patrick Johnson
> The other important factor, besides weight, is how smoothly the
> surface is polished and how that surface wears over time.
Is this the only factor determining the friction between two balls? Are
some resins "stickier" than others (either with similar balls or in
combination with balls of another resin)?
Pat Johnson
Chicago
Ron Shepard
Patrick Johnson <patrick.jo...@THIScomcast.net> wrote:
When I made the original comment I was think primarily about the
friction between the ball and the cloth; this affects, for example,
how much draw you can get on table-length shots.
I don't know the answer to the ball-ball friction question. In
general, friction is well-known to depend on the *pair* of sliding
surfaces, it is not a characteristic of just one of the surfaces.
Also, it does not correlate the same for all materials as a function
of smoothness; for some pairs of materials smoother surfaces have
higher friction, while for other materials smoother surfaces have
lower friction. It looks like its time to make some measurements.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Bob Jewett
> Is this the only factor determining the friction between two balls? Are
> some resins "stickier" than others (either with similar balls or in
> combination with balls of another resin)?
I thought I'd improve an old set of phenolic balls by using some
car care products. First was rubbing compound, then polish. The
result was nice and shiny -- almost like new except for the yellowing
of the old plastic. The ball-ball friction was perhaps twice what
you would see on a new set of balls. I think something in the
products had made the surfaces stickier.
--
Bob Jewett
http://www.sfbilliards.com/