Do Ivory Ferrules Cause More Deflection?
Arnot
one and compare them to some Melamine ferrules that I had also
made. They were machined to .540 O.D. (Approximately 14 MM) and
were l.005 in Length. They were all of solid ferrule stock without
a tenon hole. I would have compared them to other ferrule materials
but they already had 5/16 tenon holes drilled into them.
The results were they all weighed 5 grams +/- 2 hundredths of an
ounce. Once the tenon hole is drilled into them I think there will
be less than 1 hundredth of an ounce difference. I don't think 1 or
2 hundredths of an ounce have much effect on deflection.
Even before I started making cues I always preferred Ivory ferrules
on my cues because they are the easiest to keep clean and make your
cue look great.
Even though I personally like Ivory I think that Melamine is the
most functional ferrule material made because it is easy to keep
clean and is very strong.
Thanks for your time,
Arnot
Arnot Q Custom Cues
3717 Jeanne Avenue, Lake Worth, FL 33461
(Located in Palm Beach County)
http://www.arnotq.com
561 439-0441
Joe V
>The results were they all weighed 5 grams +/- 2 hundredths of an
>ounce. Once the tenon hole is drilled into them I think there will
>be less than 1 hundredth of an ounce difference. I don't think 1 or
>2 hundredths of an ounce have much effect on deflection.
No way... aggggggggghhhhhhh shit another arguement of the great white
cuemaker goes into the tanker...
What will it be now... the modulus of elasticity, the frictional coherrent of
air
on the ferrule as you stroke it??? Or maybe its the splitting of atoms as the
tip contacts the ball.. *grin*
But in all fairness the polymer that is used on a Predator ferrule is
proprietary,
and one would or should remove one from a Predator and weigh it with a piece
of ivory of the same measurements. To find if it is indeed lighter or heavier.
Joe
Visit www.classiccues.com for a vast selection of collectible cues We will be
supplying pre-ban ivory cue parts very soon. Will be available for trade on new
cues, for cuemakers obviously. New cues always coming...
Paul
Atlas Fibers' Ivorine-3® Threaded Ferrules weighs 4.5 grams before it is
glued on the shaft.
Paul
UNI-LOC Corp
"Joe V" <class...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011024104635...@mb-mv.aol.com...
Arnot
Paul wrote:
> A Predator ferrule weighs 2.2 grams before it is glued onto the shaft.
> Atlas Fibers' Ivorine-3® Threaded Ferrules weighs 4.5 grams before it is
> glued on the shaft.
>
> Paul
> UNI-LOC Corp
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I ask you:
Did your predator test pieces meet the same criteria as our test pieces?
All of "Ours were machined to .540 O.D. (Approximately 14 MM) and
were l.005 in Length. They were all of solid ferrule stock without
a tenon hole.
You know that the Atlas threaded ferrules do not meet the test criteria because
they are capped ferrules and they have a tenon hole in them. To be fair you
must compare solid ferrule material of the same size.
Thank you for your time - Arnot
rhncue
criteria. Who cares what the material weighs in it's raw form. What matters
is the weight at the finished product. You use a 1/4 inch tenon on a ivory
ferrule to keep the walls as thick as possible to keep from cracking, you
make them capped for the same reason. Linen ferrules are strong enough that
they don't have to be capped and you use a 5/16 or even a 3/8 tennon. This
makes them lighter in their usable form. The material that predator uses is
even lighter than linen.
My opinion
Dick
--
RHN Custom Billiard Cues
Building fine custom billiard cues for
real pool players at affordablr prices.
Over 30 years experiance.
toll free # 1-866-708-7987
"Arnot" <Ar...@arnotq.com> wrote in message
news:3BD726DF...@arnotq.com...
Frank G.
|But in all fairness the polymer that is used on a Predator ferrule is
|proprietary,
|and one would or should remove one from a Predator and weigh it with a piece
|of ivory of the same measurements. To find if it is indeed lighter or heavier.
|
|
--
Frank G Richmond, Va.
Reply to spydermurphy-at-suespammers-dot-org
Spam will be LARTED without so much as a by your leave.
The spamcop address in the header goes to the bit bucket, do not reply to
it.
tony mathews
rhncue wrote:
> Addressing Arnots experiments, I believe he is using all of the wrong
> criteria. Who cares what the material weighs in it's raw form. What matters
> is the weight at the finished product.
Dick is right on the money here. I have mentioned here many times, that it is
not the density of Ivory itself that is the problem, but how much of it is used.
As I mentioned before, you can (and I have) made Ivory ferrules with thin walls
(supported by phenolic), with short lengths that do not squirt very much. The
Devil is in the details.
Tony
tony mathews
Joe V wrote:
> >Arnot Ar...@arnotq.com writes:
>
> >The results were they all weighed 5 grams +/- 2 hundredths of an
> >ounce. Once the tenon hole is drilled into them I think there will
> >be less than 1 hundredth of an ounce difference. I don't think 1 or
> >2 hundredths of an ounce have much effect on deflection.
Well Arnot is wrong here. From results from Predator, 1 gram produced a 18%
increase in squirt (and I wish that Arnot would stop calling it deflection!): .02
ounce = .566 gram = 10% increase in squirt.
And of course the other point is that Predator use a short very thin wall ferrule
(not the typical design). The volume of material is completely different. The
typical design for an Ivory ferrule is a .25" diameter hole with a 0.25" thick cap.
This is a large volume of material. The comparison of densities is only useful, if
the volume is the same (which it is not).
There is nothing inherent in Ivory that produces more squirt. Use the same mass of
Ivory as is used in the Predator ferrule (which would be a small piece of Ivory
granted) and I would expect similar squirt values. I have installed water buffalo
ferrules on Predator shafts that did not appreciably increase the squirt.
It's not rocket science.
Tony
> Or maybe its the splitting of atoms as the
> tip contacts the ball.. *grin*
Maybe we need a portable partical accelerator on every cue? Just a thought.
> But in all fairness the polymer that is used on a Predator ferrule is
> proprietary,
> and one would or should remove one from a Predator and weigh it with a piece
> of ivory of the same measurements. To find if it is indeed lighter or heavier.
It is less dense. The material is a rigid urethane. Similar density to PVC.
Tony
Jeff Cavanagh
Wouldn't 2 hundredths of an ounce be around half a gram (2*28/100)? That's
around a 10% variance -- sounds high to me! Trying to confuse us with
metric and imperial measures?? ;-)
Jeff
"Arnot" <Ar...@arnotq.com> wrote in message
news:3BD6AE6B...@arnotq.com...
Arnot
experiment on some Elephant Ivory Ferrules and comparing it with
some like size melamine ferrule material I am sorry that I wasted
your time.
At least I took the time to post some real data instead of just my
opinion. For those of you who know so much why don't you make some
ferrules and report the data instead of picking me apart.
For those of you who like Ivory Ferrules and refuse to let one
hundredth of an ounce ruin your pocketing ability thanks for taking
the time to read.
Thanks - Arnot
Arnot Q Custom Cues
3717 Jeanne Avenue, Lake Worth, FL 33461
(Located in Palm Beach County)
Kick Ass Cues With Ivory Ferrules - Individually Made
http://www.arnotq.com
561 439-0441
Otto
> At least I took the time to post some real data instead of just my
> opinion.
Thanks for doing that.
> For those of you who like Ivory Ferrules and refuse to let one
> hundredth of an ounce ruin your pocketing ability thanks for taking
> the time to read.
When you install an ivory ferrule on a cue does it still have the same
mass(1/100th oz difference) as it does prior to the install?
Otto
tony mathews
Arnot wrote:
> If I offended anyone by simply reporting the results of a simple
> experiment on some Elephant Ivory Ferrules and comparing it with
> some like size melamine ferrule material I am sorry that I wasted
> your time.
>
I don't think that anyone was offended at all. thanks for the info, and
you are correct, Ivory and Linen Melamine (lbm) are similar in density.
Therefore, if the identical volume was used, one would expect similar
squirt.
Tony
Arnot
just guess that the weight of the ferrule will reduce proportionately to
the amount of material removed. If you start with a round piece of ivory
that is .540. O.D. and 1 inch long and then you drill a 5/16 hole thru it,
reduce the O.D. to .513 (13 MM Dia.) then you have removed quite a bit of
the original material. If the original difference was only 2 hundredths
of an ounce then I am guessing that you will be left with only about 1
hundredth of an ounce difference. Do I know that as fact? - NO. How
much deflection is increased by 1 hundredth of an ounce is another thing I
do not know.
I do know that many variables contribute to deflection. Some of these are
or might be: bend in the shaft; tip material, hardness, shape and
thickness; shaft diameter, length, taper and density; tenon diameter and
length; weight of the butt, player's stroke, elevation of the cue's butt,
how much side spin is applied; how hard the player shoots, how much chalk
is present on the tip (and some players believe the brand of chalk). Wish
I had a way to compare all these variables and come up with some useful
data.
Thanks for your time - Arnot
Otto wrote:
Arnot Q Custom Cues
3717 Jeanne Avenue, Lake Worth, FL 33461
(Located in Palm Beach County)
Kick Ass Cues With "Attitude" - Individually Made
http://www.arnotq.com
561 439-0441
Ron Shepard
tony mathews <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Another factor is how the ferrule is attached to the shaft. Sometimes
ivory ferrules are installed over a metal stud, so this means that the
walls of the ivory ferrule are thicker than normal, and the weight of
the metal stud itself might also be an important factor.
I don't know the actual densities of all the materials used, but one
rough measure is that many plastic polymers float on water, as does
maple and ash from which the shaft and tenon are made, while ivory and
metal (steel, brass, aluminum, titanium) all sink.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Paul
> Now I ask you:
> Did your predator test pieces meet the same criteria as our test pieces?
>
> All of "Ours were machined to .540 O.D. (Approximately 14 MM) and
> were l.005 in Length. They were all of solid ferrule stock without a
tenon hole.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
A solid ferrule "slug" .540 O.D (precisely 13.716 MM) and 1.005 long made
from Predator ferrule material will weigh 4.5 grams +/-.1 gram (1/10 of a
gram)
Paul
UNI-LOC Corp
tony mathews
Arnot wrote:
> I do know that many variables contribute to deflection. Some of these are
> or might be: bend in the shaft; tip material, hardness, shape and
> thickness; shaft diameter, length, taper and density; tenon diameter and
> length; weight of the butt, player's stroke, elevation of the cue's butt,
> how much side spin is applied; how hard the player shoots, how much chalk
> is present on the tip (and some players believe the brand of chalk). Wish
> I had a way to compare all these variables and come up with some useful
> data.
Well some of these variables have been tested by others and what I can tell
you is known is:-bend in the shaft does not contribute to squirt (squirt is
independant of stiffness)
-length taper and density only contribute to squirt in that they may effect
the end mass
-same with tenon diameter and length
-player's stroke has nothing to do with the amount of squirt, only on the
location that the cue ball can be hit repeatably
-elevation of the butt has nothing to do with squirt, but does effect swerve -
the two are not linked, you can get one without the other (squirt without
swerve that is)
-amount of sidespin - yes this is the primary variable
- speed of stroke, actually the theory (and tests on slippery surfaces that
eliminate swerve confirm) says that squirt is independant of speed. That is
for a given tip offset, squirt will be the same regardless of speed. The
reason that people feel that it is speed dependant, is because they are seeing
the effect of swerve, which is speed dependant.
- chalk and brand of chalk are completely irrelevant. If the tip does not slip
on the ball, the squirt is the same. If the tip does slip, then that is a
miscue. Squirt is not caused by a miscue (or a partial miscue).
If you want some more detail, look into Ron Shepard's article everything you
always wanted to know about squirt (but were afraid to ask). Lot's of
information there.
Tony
tony mathews
Ron Shepard wrote:
> Another factor is how the ferrule is attached to the shaft. Sometimes
> ivory ferrules are installed over a metal stud, so this means that the
> walls of the ivory ferrule are thicker than normal, and the weight of
> the metal stud itself might also be an important factor.
Yes this would be a big squirt no no. However, I've not heard of any contemporary
cuemaker's installing Ivory ferrules with a metal stud. Maybe there are some, but I
would expect a huge amount of squirt.
> I don't know the actual densities of all the materials used, but one
> rough measure is that many plastic polymers float on water, as does
> maple and ash from which the shaft and tenon are made, while ivory and
> metal (steel, brass, aluminum, titanium) all sink.
I think that the original comparison was between Ivory and Linen Melamine (a cloth
filled thermoset resin, insulator material). The densities of these two materials
are similar. But the density of the thermoplastics like PVC, ABS or the Predator
ferrule material are much lower than Ivory.
Tony
>
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
Frank G.
|Another factor is how the ferrule is attached to the shaft. Sometimes
|ivory ferrules are installed over a metal stud, so this means that the
|walls of the ivory ferrule are thicker than normal, and the weight of
|the metal stud itself might also be an important factor.
|
|
All of my ferrules (that's all, not just the ivory) have threaded tennons
and the ferrule is threaded and glued. I do not notice much difference in
squirt between the Linen/Ivory/Corian ferrules. I like the softer hit of
the Ivory (I use a backer on all of the tips, so the softer feel is not
coming from the backer). I also like an Ivory joint, with linen next. This
is also due to the softer feel. JMO.
ivorycue
> I have installed water buffalo
> ferrules on Predator shafts that did not appreciably increase the squirt.
Tony,
How did you install the Water Buffalo Ferrule was it capped ?, if so
what is the cap thickness, wall thickness
Thanks
Btw...
I have used this type of ferrule for my cues but only for my
break/jump
also used for Joints, rings and Butt caps ...one hell of a durable
material
tony mathews
ivorycue wrote:
Tony,
How did you install the Water Buffalo Ferrule was it capped ?, if so
what is the cap thickness, wall thickness
Tony
The Rock
know how to make better low end fakes garbage so he shits forth this...
Why don't you just quit beating around the bush and come out to say what you
really want to say. You really want to come in here and tell everyone you sell
substandard garbage that you call a cue. Now you're asking how to make better
copies of other hardworking cuemaker's designs. Did someone figure out you were
selling a fake or substandard copy of a cue and you ask this? Maybe you were
showing some person one of your fakes and your piece of crap broke? Like say...a
FERRULE! When will you start going to all the message boards to sell your fake
Balabushkas as the real thing? I'm sure you waiting to do it. Besides, why would
we care what you use the material for unless you're trying to say you sell
something. Which you are trying to imply. Hell, you probably only jumped into
this one cause you saw Arnot and might start making copies of his work. Your
rubbish isn't even fit to be burned as firewood or to line the bottom of an
outhouse.
William Lee
Sounds like you got burned or something.
William Lee
lfigueroa
jealously sits by.
Lou Figueroa
"Ron Shepard" <ron-shep...@home.com> wrote in message
news:ron-shepardNOSPAM-5...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com...
lfigueroa
> - speed of stroke, actually the theory (and tests on slippery surfaces
that
> eliminate swerve confirm) says that squirt is independant of speed. That
is
> for a given tip offset, squirt will be the same regardless of speed.
Though I also disagree with some of the other stuff, this one jumps out as
running completely contrary to my personal experience on a pool table and I
dan't care what the experiments on slippery surfaces say.
Lou Figueroa
"tony mathews" <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BD8AB72...@sympatico.ca...
Arnot
Ivory ferrule (5 grams x .357 = .1785 hundredths of an ounce
Predator ferrule (4.5 grams x .375 = .1606 of an ounce
.1785 - .1606 = .179 hundredths of an ounce
Now if you reduce the outside diameter of the ferrule from 14 MM to 13 MM you
have reduced the weight difference by 7 percent and brought the weight
difference to about .1253. Now if you drill a 5/16 hole through it you have
again reduced the amount of weight difference to well under 1 hundredth of an
ounce.
Use whatever ferrule material you like - it is not going to make any noticable
difference in deflection. If it made a difference, all the professional players
would insist on using the same ferrule material.
It ain't rocket science (:o).
Paul - Thank you for the data. Arnot
Paul wrote:
Arnot Q Custom Cues
3717 Jeanne Avenue, Lake Worth, FL 33461
(Located in Palm Beach County)
Ron Shepard
"lfigueroa" <lfig...@att.net> wrote:
> Ugly picture of Ron dropping ferrules in his bathtub, while rubber ducky
> jealously sits by.
Ok, here's a hypothetical question. If you drop a plastic ferrule in
the commode, would you reach in and get it? If you drop an ivory
ferrule in the commode, would you reach in and get it?
One floats, but the other is more expensive.
$.02 -Ron Shepard <--how about a nickel, dime, quarter,
Sakajewa dollar, or 1918 silver dollar
Frank G.
|Ok, here's a hypothetical question. If you drop a plastic ferrule in
|the commode, would you reach in and get it? If you drop an ivory
|ferrule in the commode, would you reach in and get it?
|
|One floats, but the other is more expensive.
|
|$.02 -Ron Shepard <--how about a nickel, dime, quarter,
| Sakajewa dollar, or 1918 silver dollar
|
2) yep
tony mathews
lfigueroa wrote:
> Ugly picture of Ron dropping ferrules in his bathtub, while rubber ducky
> jealously sits by.
>
Oh man, thanks a lot Lou! Now how am I going to get that image out of my head.
cruel.
Lol!
Tony
nu
> Did you buy one of his cues?
> Sounds like you got burned or something.
>
> William Lee
He probably hasn't seen, much less used, a cue that ivorycue sells.
Mainly because ivorycue sells his cues mostly in the Philippines.
That'd make him a liar.
If he has seen/used one, he's probably from the Philippines, and most
likely a one of the regs of easypooltutor.com. Then, he's a two-faced
traitor who can't say stuff like what he just did to ivorycue's face.
Or he may be just a troll, plain and simple.
I think he's just got something against regs from easypooltutor.com.
Or something. Whatever.
nu
tony mathews
Arnot wrote:
> Gram = .357 Ounces.
Actually, 1 ounce = 28.32 grams, therefore 1 gram = 1/28.32 = .0353 ounces
I think that in the case of small measurements, it is better to stick with grams and
not run the risk of a conversion error.
>
>
> Ivory ferrule (5 grams x .357 = .1785 hundredths of an ounce
>
> Predator ferrule (4.5 grams x .375 = .1606 of an ounce
>
> .1785 - .1606 = .179 hundredths of an ounce
Use the above conversion factor, and not the one that you came up with.
> Now if you reduce the outside diameter of the ferrule from 14 MM to 13 MM you
> have reduced the weight difference by 7 percent and brought the weight
> difference to about .1253.
You forget that it is the volume difference that effects the weight. The difference
in volume between two cylinders of different diameters is given as: (pi * R sqr * L)
- (pi * r sqr * L), where R = the larger diameter, and r = the smaller diameter.
> Use whatever ferrule material you like - it is not going to make any noticable
> difference in deflection. If it made a difference, all the professional players
> would insist on using the same ferrule material.
I don't understand this logic at all. First off, not all of the professional players
want a low squirt shaft. Some are so used to a higher squirt shaft, that they will
not change. Secondly, it has been found that 1 gram makes an 18% difference in
squirt.
Your conclusions are based on some faulty math.
I think that it is better to start with the known densities of the materials. Then
use the ferrule dimensions to calculate the resulting mass. And then use the squirt
vs. 1 gram of end mass to calculate the variance in squirt.
But you may have missed one of the points, that is, the ferrule dimensions are not
the same. Consider the predator ferrule design is actually shorter, with a very
large diameter tenon. This is much less volume than the design you are describing.
When reducing the end mass, it is important to consider the final mass only. Thus,
it is entirely possible to achieve low end mass with an Ivory ferrule. It just
requires a smaller amount of Ivory.
> It ain't rocket science (:o).
>
No comment.
Tony
tony mathews
ivorycue wrote:
> Tony,
>
> How did you install the Water Buffalo Ferrule was it capped ?, if so
> what is the cap thickness, wall thickness
>
Cap thickness was 0.125", or about 1/2 the original thickness. Wall thickness was the same as
original.
Tony
Fred Agnir
> Gram = .357 Ounces.
Gram = .0353 Ounces by my calculations. No?
> It ain't rocket science (:o).
Apparently not.
Fred
Arnot
stupid. I needed that.
Who found that 1 gram of ferrule weight increased deflection 18%. 18% of what?
I haven't missed anything. I always knew smaller ferrules weighed less than larger
ferrules.
Thanks for your time - Arnot
tony mathews wrote:
Arnot Q Custom Cues
lfigueroa
larger workshop.
Lou Figueroa
"Ron Shepard" <ron-shep...@home.com> wrote in message
news:ron-shepardNOSPAM-C...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com...
lfigueroa
Lou Figueroa
"tony mathews" <tony.m...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3BD9C893...@sympatico.ca...
Mark0
You are making a different argument. The fact is most ivory ferrules are
capped and most melamine/ivorine ones are not. If, as you say, you make
'through' ferrules in all materials then you are correct that it likely
makes little difference. That isn't what your detractors are saying though.
Capische?
Mark0 <--how durable are the non-capped ferrules though?
"Arnot" <Ar...@arnotq.com> wrote in message
news:3BD96602...@arnotq.com...
tony mathews
Arnot wrote:
> Thank you for rounding off your numbers at a different place just to make me look
> stupid. I needed that.
Don't get your knickers in a knot! If it was a rounding error I wouldn't care, but we were
talking about a decimal place error. That's a factor of ten. I just wanted to point it out
to you.
.357 ounces versus .0353 ounces
>
>
> Who found that 1 gram of ferrule weight increased deflection 18%. 18% of what?
Predators test data that I have reviewed. It is not 18% of what, it is an 18% increase.
What isn't clear is if this is a linear increase across a large range of pivot points. But
starting at a pivot point of 40" to 50" (the 314 range) 1 gram of additional end mass will
yield an increase of 18% squirt.
> I haven't missed anything. I always knew smaller ferrules weighed less than larger
> ferrules.
I am sure that you did. What was the original point of the post again?
Tony
tony mathews
Mark0 wrote:
>You are making a different argument. The fact is most ivory ferrules are
>capped and most melamine/ivorine ones are not.
>
Actually Mark this is not a fact. To cap or not to cap a ferrule is a
decision based upon the relative durability of the ferrule material, and
the convention of the cuemaker. Thus some cuemakers may cap all of their
ferrules regardless of material, some will make all through ferrules,
and some will switch depending on the material.
>Mark0 <--how durable are the non-capped ferrules though?
>
Depends on the material, but in general the non-capped ferrules are very
durable.
Tony
The Rock
>
>Did you buy one of his cues?
>Sounds like you got burned or something.
>
>William Lee
>
>
Luckily, I didn't buy one of his cues. The thing is, Mr. Lee, isn't just a
quality issue but also his sneaky way of trying to get customers. Every cue
that's sold is a copy of some American cuemaker's work. It's not just any work
but the signature works of these cuemakers. This is the collectable stuff that
they worked long and hard to develop not just the designs, but the methods used
to make those designs. He also doesn't come out here to say he sells his cues.
His usual tactic now is to just post some of his counterfeit garbage and tell
people to look at it hoping some will ask how much and where to get one. He's
also here to find out how to make better fakes and maybe get some new designs.
He's done that at other boards and is now here. How would you like it, Mr. Lee,
if you spent almost a year making a one of a kind collector grade cue and have
someone make a cheap, low grade copy of it in less than a week? It's antics like
this man's that had Viking and Thomas Wayne going to the courts to protect their
designs. It's also the reason that Southwest and a lot of other cuemakers are
putting identification marks on their cues so people know it's authentic and
they made it eg the cactus. I'm sorry if this is a little more than the answer
you might be seeking but that's the truth.
The Rock
says...
You think you have all the answers don't you? How do you know nobody said
anything to his face? However, I see what you're trying to do here. You and him
probably thought of this scheme to advertise his junk here. He just posts and
you jump in all of a sudden and tell people where he is and where his cues sell
at hoping someone will ask what he has to offer. Maybe even cause a little
trouble here to get some attention like your teacher Mark23 taught you. I also
notice you mentioned easypooltutor.com several times. Is this the way the site
advertises? By having you stick your nose into other people's
business/conversations? I say this because every time that site is mentioned,
it's always in some controversy. Well, I shouldn't be one to judge how you
people choose to advertise the site. You also make the false claim that I have
something against members of easypooltutor.com. For everyone's information, I do
not have anything against the majority of the members there. There are a few
regulars from there that post asking questions in a direct and civilized manner
and received the answer without any form of trouble. However, some of the ones
you call "regs" have a letter missing ie the "d" making them "dregs" which is
more like accurate. The only troll here is you. From some of your past posts,
you seem to troll around looking to advertise the site you seem to frequent.
Now, you will probably start into one of your vulgar, profanity laden tirades
similar to something a preschooler or uneducated savage would do.
Jeff Cavanagh
you're pissed at. Why don't you talk to him in private if you have a
problem with him? What business is it of yours who by what from whom???
Jeff
"The Rock" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:4MrC7.2431$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
Mark0
I must have missed something. Who is this 'alleged' design thief you refer
to? And why can't he copy the authentication too?
Mark0
"The Rock" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:4MrC7.2431$xS6....@www.newsranger.com...
nu
>
>
> You think you have all the answers don't you?
Not really...
> How do you know nobody said anything to his face?
I was talking about you.
> However, I see what you're trying to do here. You and him
> probably thought of this scheme to advertise his junk here. He just posts and
> you jump in all of a sudden and tell people where he is and where his cues > sell at hoping someone will ask what he has to offer.
Yeah, that's exactly it. It's such a lot less work than just putting
his website as his signature...
>I also notice you mentioned easypooltutor.com several times. Is this
the way >the site advertises?
Nope.
> The only troll here is you. From some of your past posts,
> you seem to troll around looking to advertise the site you seem to frequent.
Care to post a link?
> Now, you will probably start into one of your vulgar, profanity laden tirades
> similar to something a preschooler or uneducated savage would do.
#$%&@*@#$@#!!!! Heh.
nu
nu
> Rocky,
>
> I must have missed something. Who is this 'alleged' design thief you refer
> to? And why can't he copy the authentication too?
>
> Mark0
>
Coz the guy being accused of being a design thief isn't trying to pass
off the cues as originals.
If the accuser really knew what he was talking about, he'd understand
why the said cues look similar to some other cues. Well, I do.
nu
The Rock
Oh, that design thief is that ivorycue character. Your second question, Mark, is
a very good one. He maybe have plans to copy the authentification also. However,
he may just decide not to do that in an effort to trick people into thinking the
designs are his own.
The Rock
For a guy who claims not to be advertising easypooltutor.com, you sure were
quick to mention that place. I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned
that site but you. You probably wouldn't care, however, since you believe you're
doing a favor for the place by mentioning it a few times.
The Rock
Do you do anything else besides troll and covertly advertise the site you go to
or did your great leader Mark23 teach you to do this? Why do you insist on
replying for people? Any civilized human would notice that the post was
addressed to a specific person. From reading your posts, you seem to have a
problem with minding your own business and a total lack of any form of civilized
form of communication from some of your earlier posts. But I can understand that
since your leader, Mark23, teaches you to start trouble in order get noticed.
Plus how do you know that I don't know what I'm talking about? You seem to have
so many answers yet you don't seem to be answering many of the other posts in
this newsgroup. Then you make the claim that you know why that guy copies other
people's work yet didn't say why. You seem to know everything else, why didn't
you tell the entire world why since you know? Are you waiting for your next
payment from him? Tell us why. Like you said earlier, you're a reg of
easypooltutor.com and everyone knows by now that place is patronized only by
pool geniuses. You don't want to disappoint the world and your fellow geniuses
of that site by not carrying on the great tradition set forth by your leader do
you?
ivorycue
>
> Why don't you just quit beating around the bush and come out to say what you
> really want to say. You really want to come in here and tell everyone you sell
> substandard garbage that you call a cue. Now you're asking how to make better
> copies of other hardworking cuemaker's designs. Did someone figure out you were
> selling a fake or substandard copy of a cue and you ask this? Maybe you were
> showing some person one of your fakes and your piece of crap broke? Like say...a
> FERRULE! When will you start going to all the message boards to sell your fake
> Balabushkas as the real thing? I'm sure you waiting to do it. Besides, why would
> we care what you use the material for unless you're trying to say you sell
> something. Which you are trying to imply. Hell, you probably only jumped into
> this one cause you saw Arnot and might start making copies of his work. Your
> rubbish isn't even fit to be burned as firewood or to line the bottom of an
> outhouse.
ROCK YOU ARE WRONG !!!....my cues are excellent firewood !!!, I had a
bar-b-q the other day and got my sneaky pete and WOW !!!, maple and
Bacote wood has some aroma that no other charcoal can match, I also
experimented with graphite cues but the outcome was not to be desired,
their better off as large bar-b-q sticks for whole chickens...
Seriously... I have NEVER advertised my stuff in this discussion
board. This Discussion board was made so that pool enthusiast can
exchange information about pool and its associated equipment.
You on the other hand, who seems content on posting anything besides
the Subject matter .. should READ ...that is R -E - A - D ...that is
if you can read ....the SUBJECT MATTER of the post, before you
respond.
Take this thread for example ...it says "Do Ivory Ferrules Cause More
Deflection?"...
This means that you should RESPOND with sentences that contains
information on ferrule material (preferably ivory ) or Deflection or
both which is better...Did you understand that or was it too much
information for you ?
do you want me to repeat that for you ?
Regards
Ivorycue
Now please stop this and stay on topic for the benefit of the other
visitors of this site
The Rock
this big load onto the Internet...
Just the type of answer I would expect from you. You must love to think you're
special by looking down on people and giving orders just because you're a member
of easypooltutor.com don't ya? You're just like all the others from that place.
You're probably just waiting to advertise something whether directly or
indirectly like on some other sites. You're right about one thing in that this
newsgroup was made to exchange information. You're just looking for them to give
you information on how to make better forgeries of cues and to find designs you
can use possibly in an effort to pass them off as your own designs. Besides, how
do you know I post anything besides the topic? I've posted a lot of times on
topic. I am merely stating facts. Why don't you get your facts straight instead
of trying to stir up trouble and acting like you're some gift to this newsgroup.
Besides, your little cheerleader doesn't seem to post anything on topic. Maybe
you should tell him first before you go ordering other people around and
insulting them. But that's probably too hard for you to do or against the
training of your leader Mark23. Another thing, you talk about visitors to "this
site", what site? Usenet isn't a website but I may know what you're trying to
do. You're putting in "site" so people can ask what you're talking about and
then post a link to your junk? Very clever, I'm sure everyone's gonna advertise
like that now.
nu
"You also make the false claim that I have
something against members of easypooltutor.com. For everyone's
information, I do
not have anything against the majority of the members there."
which was taken from this message:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right&rnum=31&thl=1096670277,1096586506,1084350727,1084277943,1084235576,1084197732,1084039290,1083818684,1083638736,1083450744,1083823010,1083813065&seekm=3BD7CEAA.823817AB%40sympatico.ca#link37
To this:
"You must love to think you're special by looking down on people and
giving orders just because you're a member of easypooltutor.com don't
ya? You're just like all the others from that place."
Someone's lying... And damn, there's proof! Let's see you try to
prove any of your accusations.
And when he said 'site,' he meant google. He uses usenet through
google, which is a website. It just so happens that usenet isn't very
popular in the Philippines, which is why most ISPs don't have access
to it. And those ISPs that do have usenet access, don't provide it
well.
nu
nu
> Plus how do you know that I don't know what I'm talking about? You seem to have
> so many answers yet you don't seem to be answering many of the other posts in
> this newsgroup.
Coz if you did, you'd know why ivorycue's cues look like that of other
cue makers.
It's interesting how you can call his cues crap when you haven't tried
his cues.
> Then you make the claim that you know why that guy copies other
> people's work yet didn't say why. You seem to know everything else, why didn't
> you tell the entire world why since you know?
Hey, if you know enough about ivorycue to make accusations, you should
at least know why his cues look similar to other cues.
If you don't know, then you don't really have the right to make any
accusations.
The Rock
like Mark23 by the day says...
I said it first and I'll say it again, I have nothing against every member of
the site you like to bring up. There are other members who post here from that
site and never cause any trouble. Since you seem to have so much time to look
through all the other threads, you might want to see if those others have any
trouble. They come in, ask their question, and get a reply in a civilized manner
and don't bother others. Now you're answering for him, he should have said so in
the first place but I do see how your plan's working. People ask him a question
and you're the one to answer. It's very clear now why he didn't say so in the
first place. Very good plan you guys have there.
The Rock
troll us so he says...
Hmmmm....you sure do like skirting questions asked to you and make lots of blind
accusations. You make the claim that you know why he makes them yet you don't
tell anyone. Is it some great secret you don't want the public to know? Maybe
you don't know yourself and want to brag to people here or elsewhere. It could
be you just want to say that so others can ask you so you can try to make a
sale. Very clever trick. You have no problem attacking and making things up. You
have no proof that I do or don't know anything about the said cues. You just
like making things up and stirring up trouble don't you? Is it because you're
lacking attention that you keep this thread going? Maybe your leader should have
made his last message toward you since you seem to have trouble staying on topic
when he asked everyone to the last time. I understand, however, that you have
nothing better to do with your time other than make trouble to get attention.
nu
So which is it, really? You don't have anything against most members
of our site, or ivorycue whom you regard negatively is just like
everyone else from there? You sure tried to evade a direct answer to
that in your last post.
And for all your accusations against me, you couldn't post a single
link to prove them. Then again, I'm not suprised because your
accusations are all lies.
I'm done with you. You've done nothing but avoid the issues and
re-hash your points. You're nothing but a total waste of time, and
I've wasted enough.
nu
The Rock
not getting enough attention here so he says...
You must have trouble reading. Maybe your leader should spell it out for you. I
have said repeatedly that I hold no malice toward some of those at the site. Why
you seek to twist it around is beyond me. I guess it's too much for your
uncivilized intelligence to comprehend. Then again, you too like to evade direct
questions asked of you. Then you go crying about links this and links that.
Unlike you, I have more important things to do with my time than to just sit all
day looking at every single post on usenet. I'm sure most people here also have
better things to do. Now you're talking about wasting time. If I recall, you
were the one that stuck your nose in and started all this. I understand,
however, since you are leaving this because you didn't get the attention you
were seeking or enough of it like you would at easypooltutor.com. Maybe you're
just going back to that site to confer with all those experts on how to come
back here to cause more trouble and get some more attention.
Warren Lushia
The Rock wrote:
>I understand,
> however, since you are leaving this because you didn't get the attention you
> were seeking or enough of it like you would at easypooltutor.com.
who the hell gives a crap about the easy pool tutor site. take it to email, leave it there, whatever,
this is getting older than joseph bartlo's delusions. the mark23 haters have already spammed us more
than he ever has. debate these topics on the easy site. we'll debate out own topics here. y'all are
a sad bunch of losers who have dragged me down to your level by replying. go away, rock, ivorycue, nu,
all of you. hell i am longwinded, but i can keep it on topic if necessary. go away.
warren..<-- sanding my tip. over and over, more sanding, more wondering......more sanding, what could
be wrong????????? perhaps its my agenda....