ESPN Pool Parody on SNL
Ron Shepard
rerun. It is basically a parody of women's pool coverage on ESPN, and
in particular about the color commentary. I know lots of people here
don't care for Mitch Laurance in the booth, so you will probably get a
kick out of this skit.
The skit is about a rerun of a 1991 tournament, which I think hits the
mark pretty well as far as ESPN coverage is concerned.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/101532/saturday-night-live-drew-barrymore#s-p1-
so-i0
It starts at about 42 minutes into the video.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Jack Stein
making me laugh... This skit was particularly bad.
They did manage to shed some light on how someone like Mitch keeps his
job at ESPN, assuming they did not make up his father works for ESPN.
Mitch is bad, they got that right. I have my DVR tape all the pool
matches so I see them all, over and over. When Mitch is at the mic, I
generally Fast Forward between shots, effectively editing out all the
clapping and most of the boring commentary. This works great when Karen
Core is taking her full 30 seconds between even the simplest of shots...
As far as Mitch knowing absolutely NOTHING about pool... that has got to
be fake. He is married to a professional pool player, he has been doing
commentary for professional pool matches for YEARS. Pool simply ain't
all that complicated, something had to rub off on even an idiot. He's
boring as hell, but he isn't an idiot.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Ron Shepard
Jack Stein <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > http://www.hulu.com/watch/101532/saturday-night-live-drew-barrymore#s-p1-
> > so-i0
> >
> > It starts at about 42 minutes into the video.
[...]
> Whelp, SNL managed to maintain it's almost perfect track record of not
> making me laugh... This skit was particularly bad.
Yeah, but I think it shows how this kind of coverage of pool matches is
viewed by the typical TV viewer who is not a regular pool player. It
demonstrates, with a little humor, what many of us here in RSB have been
saying for the past 15 years about ESPN pool coverage.
> They did manage to shed some light on how someone like Mitch keeps his
> job at ESPN, assuming they did not make up his father works for ESPN.
I think they made that up.
[...]
> As far as Mitch knowing absolutely NOTHING about pool... that has got to
> be fake. He is married to a professional pool player,
THAT'S how I think he keeps this job.
> he has been doing
> commentary for professional pool matches for YEARS. Pool simply ain't
> all that complicated, something had to rub off on even an idiot. He's
> boring as hell, but he isn't an idiot.
I think ESPN is trying to package something that will attract regular
spectators who are themselves not regular pool players. But they are
trying to do it backwards. They should be educating the audience so
that they can understand when a good shot is made and why that shot was
chosen. That's how the poker people succeeded on TV, they educated the
audience about the game. Instead, ESPN uses Mitch to act as a surrogate
for all of the spectators out there who are not pool players, who don't
understand the tactics, and they hope that his personality is enough to
keep everyone interested. I agree that this is a role that he plays, or
at least a perspective that he adopts, he is not an idiot. I personally
don't think this is a winning long-term strategy for pool on TV. It
doesn't entertain the nonexperts (as demonstrated by this SNL skit) and
it does not satisfy regular pool players (as demonstrated by our
complaints about ESPN pool tournaments over the past 15 years here in
RSB).
On the other hand, you couldn't turn Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews
(just to pick two examples) loose as commentators on ESPN either. They
do great talking about details to experts. I think there has to be some
other approach, one that brings up the level of knowledge of the
spectators over time, and one that can talk simultaneously to both
nonexperts and experts about the match, the tactics, and the individual
shots. If something like poker can make for a good spectator sport on
TV, then pool should be a piece of cake.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
dumper
televises, and promotes poker. Not only is
watching poker on ESPN a learning experience, it
provides great insight into the lives of the
players. I never thought I'd be able to watch
poker on TV, but ESPN makes it pleasurable to
watch. Of course, having multi-million $ payouts
doesn't hurt, either, something pool (other than
the short-lived IPT) has never been able to
achieve.
John Black
she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> On the other hand, you couldn't turn Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews
> (just to pick two examples) loose as commentators on ESPN either. They
> do great talking about details to experts.
I think they could make it work on ESPN too. I'd like to see them try.
John Black
John Black
says...
> Whelp, SNL managed to maintain it's almost perfect track record of not
> making me laugh... This skit was particularly bad.
SNL has made me laugh plenty a time but that skit was horrendous. Extremely
bad. Very insulting to the players especially.
John Black
bk4...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> On the other hand, you couldn't turn Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews
> (just to pick two examples) loose as commentators on ESPN either.
I think you could. There's no middle ground between the bad ESPN
commentators and Billy/Grady. Why not take exactly what pool really
is and just put it out there.
Bob
Jack Stein
> Jack Stein wrote:
> [...]
>> Whelp, SNL managed to maintain it's almost perfect track record of not
>> making me laugh... This skit was particularly bad.
> Yeah, but I think it shows how this kind of coverage of pool matches is
> viewed by the typical TV viewer who is not a regular pool player.
Perhaps, but somewhere deep inside me, where conspiratorial critters
live, I think it's more like how the TV muckity mucks view pool.
> I think ESPN is trying to package something that will attract regular
> spectators who are themselves not regular pool players. But they are
> trying to do it backwards.
<BEGIN> crazy ass conspiracy rant
Really backwards. So backwards I'm constantly astounded at how poorly
pool is handled on TV. It's so bad I sometimes wonder why it is on TV
at all, unless someone in power has a vendetta going on. I know, it
sounds crazy as hell, but after watching pool get slapped around year
after year, it's getting to the point where I don't think it's possible
for anyone to be so dumb as to present pool to the public so poorly if
they were actually wanting to promote it....
Some observations:
1. Mitch is obviously completely bored with pool, his voice is like a
sleep laxative, yet he is on year after year.
2. The camera men are WORSE than having a stationary camera on each end
of the table, or even one end of the table. This is not possible unless
done on purpose. Give me 10 minutes with a camera man and I'll have him
straight or gasping for air...
3. The editing of the matches is bazaar. Often I have watched a game
where they cut out of game for a brief interview and come back and the
very next shot that I was waiting to see was simply cut out of the game,
along with 2 or 3 additional shots.
4. Anything remotely current in pool will always be shown directly
opposite to Sunday Professional football, insuring that no football fan
will see the match unless they have a DVR or similar device.
5. Speaking of DVR's, you ain't lived yet unless you tried to set up a
DVR (on comcast) to record pool matches.... can't be done reliably if at
all, and often shows listed as pool turn out to be religious garbage,
high school football games and other non-pool nonsense.
6. Pool is the only sport on TV where second rate players are shown
while the best players, and more exciting players, are mostly ignored.
I know, you think the men are at fault here, because 20 years ago they
pissed off someone somewhere.
7. Pool is totally absent from TV, (the media in general) in the USSA,
except for ESPN. ESPN seems to put all their effort in pool to doing a
really, really bad job of selling it. Again, hard to figure anyone
successful in broadcasting doing such a poor job of it unless it was on
purpose.
<END> "sort of" crazy ass conspiracy rant
> They should be educating the audience so
> that they can understand when a good shot is made and why that shot was
> chosen. That's how the poker people succeeded on TV, they educated the
> audience about the game.
I think poker succeeded because of good presentation. Commentators are
really good at taking something as exciting to watch as water
evaporating, and making it interesting. Good camera work too, and,
matches are not shown haphazardly with one hand ending in the middle of
the bidding and starting at a new hand a few seconds later.... think
about that...
Instead, ESPN uses Mitch to act as a surrogate
> for all of the spectators out there who are not pool players, who don't
> understand the tactics, and they hope that his personality is enough to
> keep everyone interested. I agree that this is a role that he plays, or
> at least a perspective that he adopts, he is not an idiot.
He's not an idiot, but nor are the people responsible for the mess
presented to the public. Ergo, thoughts of conspiracy dancing in small
minds...
I personally
> don't think this is a winning long-term strategy for pool on TV.
Who on earth would? Really? This is where conspiracy theory comes into
play... Can anyone be that dumb?
> On the other hand, you couldn't turn Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews
> (just to pick two examples) loose as commentators on ESPN either. They
> do great talking about details to experts.
I don't think the details are all that complex. Pool is simple and the
rules are simple. There are a few commentators that are interesting,
but they are not on that often for me to remember their names. Doesn't
matter, it would not take long to find really good commentators if they
put out the effort.
> If something like poker can make for a good spectator sport on
> TV, then pool should be a piece of cake.
Yes, that's for sure. I don't think it will ever be popular like
football, but it could be a hell of a lot better than most of the stuff
shown on ESPN. I imagine it will one day get going, like you said, if
poker can do it, pool certainly can. You would think if money is
involved, someone, somewhere will figure out how to make it work. Mitch
and the wimmin just ain't it... I think the internet might one day have
a helping hand in it... Ustream is an inkling of what could get things
going....
bk4...@hotmail.com
and official ESPN criticizer. You rock, Jack!
They should hire you as a consultant. You'd have their pool ratings
through the roof in no time!
Bob Keller
John Black
says...
> 4. Anything remotely current in pool will always be shown directly
> opposite to Sunday Professional football, insuring that no football fan
> will see the match unless they have a DVR or similar device.
There are people who still don't have a DVR? Its like a cellphone, once you
are used to having it, you don't know how you ever lived without it.
> 5. Speaking of DVR's, you ain't lived yet unless you tried to set up a
> DVR (on comcast) to record pool matches.... can't be done reliably if at
> all, and often shows listed as pool turn out to be religious garbage,
> high school football games and other non-pool nonsense.
Weird. Time Warner doesn't seem to have that problem except very rarely.
The problem with using the DVR on Time Warner is that every match simply
says Billiards in the recorded list instead of what match it is so you end
up with a DVR full of matches that you don't know what they are without
looking into each one.
> 6. Pool is the only sport on TV where second rate players are shown
> while the best players, and more exciting players, are mostly ignored.
> I know, you think the men are at fault here, because 20 years ago they
> pissed off someone somewhere.
Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from the US
but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and
others.
John Black
John Black
@i12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, bk4...@hotmail.com says...
> I hereby nominate Jack Stein as the RSB representative to the media
> and official ESPN criticizer.
I'll second that.
Hey the more I think about that skit the more it bothers me. Maybe ESPN and
Mitch deserved that but the players did not. I have a tremendous amount of
respect for the players on the WPBA. They are talented, classy,
intelligent, affable people - essentially the opposite of how they were
portrayed in that skit. I think the skit was really disgraceful even
ignoring the endless Tampax jokes. This is an example of "elites" looking
down on pool players and not giving them the respect they deserve (or any
respect at all). I love humor but not humor that portrays people as other
than they are for the purpose of laughing "at them" when they have done
nothing to warrant that treatment.
John Black
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
> > 6. Pool is the only sport on TV where second rate players are shown
> > while the best players, and more exciting players, are mostly ignored.
> > I know, you think the men are at fault here, because 20 years ago they
> > pissed off someone somewhere.
>
> Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from the US
> but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and
> others.
The "someone" were the sponsors for the men pro tour, the PBTA, and they
"pissed off" these sponsors by suing them. That's why no one with any
advertising money would get near them for the past decade, the potential
sponsors don't want to be sued in court by their supposed partners. I
guess you could blame Don Mackey for this because he was in charge of
things at the time, but he did have the support of many, and perhaps
even most (I don't know), of the PBTA players at the time. And when you
combine this with the player behavior, such as throwing a tantrum and
walking out of the middle of a televised final event, it really was a
disaster.
The events you mention above are all organized and sponsored by
different pro organizations, most of them are not even based in the US,
but they are all suffering from the actions of the PBTA 10 years ago
when it comes to TV coverage within the US.
The women pros have avoided some of this. At least they kept some of
their sponsors and they still have some TV coverage. But I think Jack's
comments are right, they really don't play as well as the men, so what
you see on TV isn't the best that the game has to offer.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
John Black
she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> The "someone" were the sponsors for the men pro tour, the PBTA, and they
> "pissed off" these sponsors by suing them. That's why no one with any
> advertising money would get near them for the past decade, the potential
> sponsors don't want to be sued in court by their supposed partners. I
> guess you could blame Don Mackey for this because he was in charge of
> things at the time, but he did have the support of many, and perhaps
> even most (I don't know), of the PBTA players at the time. And when you
> combine this with the player behavior, such as throwing a tantrum and
> walking out of the middle of a televised final event, it really was a
> disaster.
Can you give more details on this story? It sounds like a doozy and it
happened before I was paying attention to pool. Or point to where I can
read about these events?
John Black
JakartaDean
> Yeah, but I think it shows how this kind of coverage of pool matches is
> viewed by the typical TV viewer who is not a regular pool player. It
> demonstrates, with a little humor, what many of us here in RSB have been
> saying for the past 15 years about ESPN pool coverage.
>
> spectators who are themselves not regular pool players. But they are
> trying to do it backwards. They should be educating the audience so
> that they can understand when a good shot is made and why that shot was
> chosen. That's how the poker people succeeded on TV, they educated the
> audience about the game. Instead, ESPN uses Mitch to act as a surrogate
> for all of the spectators out there who are not pool players, who don't
> understand the tactics, and they hope that his personality is enough to
> keep everyone interested. I agree that this is a role that he plays, or
> at least a perspective that he adopts, he is not an idiot. I personally
> don't think this is a winning long-term strategy for pool on TV. It
> doesn't entertain the nonexperts (as demonstrated by this SNL skit) and
> it does not satisfy regular pool players (as demonstrated by our
> complaints about ESPN pool tournaments over the past 15 years here in
> RSB).
>
six or eight tournaments a year, probably 20 hours over 3 or 4 days,
plus a few rebroadcasts. No, I don't know who watches the rebroadcasts,
not even I am that devoted. They are fairly well done, sometimes with
good commentators, sometimes with poor ones. I make a point of sending
them an email when I'm impressed with a commentator, but so far they
haven't hired me on as a consultant ;-0 I don't know what kind of
ratings they get, but it would be available to over half the cable
subscribers in Asia (my guess). The big series is a geographical tour,
covering several countries with a final in someplace nice like Bali.
There is always a title series sponsor, which is why it's on ESPN, but
the sponsors must have some idea of the exposure they get. BTW, it's
usually a brewery.
In the UK, snooker used to be very popular on TV, and maybe still is.
(I remember my late grandmother watching it on TV when I was young, and
being told to "shut up!" if I dared to talk while it was on.) As I
recall, the commentators are as you describe below, intelligent and
knowledgeable about the game and the players. The players lifestyles
also gets a lot of commentary, but the pharmaceutical habits of them
leave them wide open for such a discussion. My impression is that it's
well done, but I admit that it's been years since I've watched a game there.
> On the other hand, you couldn't turn Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews
> (just to pick two examples) loose as commentators on ESPN either. They
> do great talking about details to experts. I think there has to be some
> other approach, one that brings up the level of knowledge of the
> spectators over time, and one that can talk simultaneously to both
> nonexperts and experts about the match, the tactics, and the individual
> shots. If something like poker can make for a good spectator sport on
> TV, then pool should be a piece of cake.
>
I'd agree, but I think Billy and Grady would still do better than two
know-nothings. I don't find it interesting to watch a game I don't
understand and not have the commentators explain why somebody did
something. I could think I might enjoy a chess match more, for example,
if an intelligent commentator was explaining what was going on, not just
assuming I'm too dumb to understand -- and I barely remember how to play
chess.
I wonder if the game is part of the problem? I understand why they went
away from straight pool, but that's about the closest N. American game
to snooker, in terms of run lengths, safety play and so on. Nine ball
was supposed to be better for TV, but it's mostly interesting only when
somebody makes a mistake. Ten ball might be better -- I watched some
ten ball out of the Philippines a while back that I enjoyed. The extra
ball seemed to make run-outs much harder, and there were more clusters.
Commentators who can explain the strategy behind safety play, the
chances of a run-out and so on would have something to talk about. I
don't know how the IBT experiment with eight ball went, but that would
also be a better experience, for me, than nine ball.
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
Dean
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
I did not see anything specific with a google search. I did find
this thread over at azb.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=157777
Also, I know that most of this was reported as it played out in
Billiards Digest, but it was over about a four year period, from
1994 to 1998.
1994 was when I think the biggest series of mistakes began. That
was the summer that the major league baseball players went on
strike. All the TV channels were desperately looking for filler
material for time slots that were left empty from baseball games.
If you look at RSB postings at the time, you will see us talking
about ESPN shows with dogs catching frisbies. That's no joke, that
really is what ESPN was putting on TV that summer. The PBTA should
have had a cake walk, they should have been able to negotiate
regular time slots, sponsors should have been falling out of trees
courting them. It is cheap to cover pool matches, and little
preparation is required. It was the perfect alignment of the
planets for professional pool. There was some pool coverage then,
and there was even a live tournament finals match between Earl
Strickland and Efren Reyes (with Earl acting like an ass, as usual
back then). But somehow every opportunity seems to slip away, both
with sponsors and with TV coverage (network and cable). When summer
was over and fall came around, the WPA world 9-ball championships
where held in the US that year (back then they were trying to rotate
it on a 3-year cycle with the US, Europe, and Asia -- 1994 and 1997
would be the last two times the tournament was held on US soil).
The 1994 tournament was yet another great possibility for pool to
get some decent TV coverage, to showcase the best of the US players,
and to show how they stacked up against the rest of the world. So
what did Don Mackey and the PBTA do to take advantage of the timing
of this tournament? They boycotted the world championship
tournament! Mackey threatened sanctions against any PBTA player who
played in the world championships that year. I forget who all
represented the US, but it was not the best of the best. Grady
Mathews was one of the players, another one was local Chicago player
Mike Bandy. These guys are good players, and they represented the
US with some style, but they simply were not the best of the best.
It was yet another example of the PBTA shooting itself in the foot
while holding professional pool hostage.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Jack Stein
>> 4. Anything remotely current in pool will always be shown directly
>> opposite to Sunday Professional football, insuring that no football fan
>> will see the match unless they have a DVR or similar device.
> There are people who still don't have a DVR? Its like a cellphone, once you
> are used to having it, you don't know how you ever lived without it.
Ha, I think you are the reason I have a DVR. You mentioned how it
recorded all the pool matches automatically, regardless of when they
were on, or what station... I had to get one.
>> 5. Speaking of DVR's, you ain't lived yet unless you tried to set up a
>> DVR (on comcast) to record pool matches.... can't be done reliably if at
>> all, and often shows listed as pool turn out to be religious garbage,
>> high school football games and other non-pool nonsense.
>
> Weird. Time Warner doesn't seem to have that problem except very rarely.
Well, that particular problem is mostly with one station, Channel 188,
CNPH. Not sure what CNPH stands for, Comcast something I think.
Anyway, it is a really screwed up station to start with. For example,
the sound is bad, most station I have on 10 to 15 and this one I have to
turn up to 35 to hear anything...
> The problem with using the DVR on Time Warner is that every match simply
> says Billiards in the recorded list instead of what match it is so you end
> up with a DVR full of matches that you don't know what they are without
> looking into each one.
Comcast has the exact same problem. Worse, I have not been able to set
up auto recording of POOL. Half the matches, for example, those on FSN
are listed under POOL. You cannot, for some damn reason set up an
automatic recording for POOL, so you have to go through the listings
manually to get POOL recorded. You can do a SEARCH for POOL, and
SOMETIMES the matches will show up, often the don't even show up in the
search, but if you scroll through the menu indexes, there they are big
as life. When you find POOL on CNPH, there is only a 50/50 you will
record pool, half the time it's something completely unrelated to the
word "pool".
>> 6. Pool is the only sport on TV where second rate players are shown
>> while the best players, and more exciting players, are mostly ignored.
>> I know, you think the men are at fault here, because 20 years ago they
>> pissed off someone somewhere.
> Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from the US
> but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and
> others.
Yes, and the announcers are much better than good old Mitch. Sometimes
they even sound half interested in the match....
Jack Stein
> bk4...@hotmail.com says...
>> I hereby nominate Jack Stein as the RSB representative to the media
>> and official ESPN criticizer.
> I'll second that.
Youse guys are living on the edge, you know that right?
> Hey the more I think about that skit the more it bothers me.
Same here.
> Maybe ESPN and
> Mitch deserved that but the players did not. I have a tremendous amount of
> respect for the players on the WPBA. They are talented, classy,
> intelligent, affable people - essentially the opposite of how they were
> portrayed in that skit.
Yes, and the more I think about it, the more it pisses me off.
> I think the skit was really disgraceful even
> ignoring the endless Tampax jokes. This is an example of "elites" looking
> down on pool players and not giving them the respect they deserve (or any
> respect at all).
I think this might be the cause of pool going nowhere on TV. I guess
I'm slightly surprised they thought enough people even watched pool on
TV to bother writing a skit about it.
Mark0
snipped
> Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from the US
> but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and
> others.
>
> John Black
Hey John, I get the Fox sports feed out of Pittsburgh and I seldom if ever
see any pool on it. Would please post dates and times if you get a chance
to. I would love to watch/tape some Mosconi cup stuff.
--Mark0
Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
_____________________________________________________________________�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
Ron Shepard
Jack Stein <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I guess
> I'm slightly surprised they thought enough people even watched pool on
> TV to bother writing a skit about it.
The skit was about how bad the coverage is by ESPN, not about the
game itself or the players. As I said before, I think the fact that
this was a fake tournament from 1991 hit ESPN right in the bulls eye.
I watch ESPN from time to time on weekends. My wife will walk by
and ask where the tournament I'm watching is being played. I'll
tell her that it isn't live, it was taped three years ago in New
Jersey (or wherever). Then she looks at me like I'm crazy for
watching a show three years old, and I tell her that this is the
only thing that is ever on TV. Nothing live, and nothing really
even recent. Even their "recent" tournaments are old enough to have
already been covered in magazines like Billiards Digest, not to
mention any online coverage, so you already know the final match
scores and the winners of the tournament. No other sport is treated
this poorly on TV.
I guess three possible things could happen from this. Nothing, ESPN
will keep on keeping on. They could give up and drop pool coverage
entirely. Or they might be able to learn something from the public
ridicule and start presenting some decent coverage of a challenging
sport. Unfortunately, that third option is probably the least
likely.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Ratchet
I have Dish Network which came with a 100 hour DVR ,I didn't use it or
understand it much when I first got it but now I can't live without it !!
I now record ALL my programs and watch them at my leisure and I skip all
the commercials.......... I use the search feature to find pool or
billiard matches which 99.9% of the time are outdated by years and I have
found that FOX does a much better job when they do pool matches than ESPN
and are usually more current matches such as the World Cup or Mosconi Cup
......at least I can "find" more pool and Billiards easier than I could
before........
Tom S.- DVR's forever !!!
_______________________________________________________________________�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Carter Adams
a MUCH better UI than the Comcast DVR. The Comcast DVR will NOT let me
set up POOL or BILLIARDSas a series - the TiVo lets me search for POOL
or BILLIARDS as a keyword and automatically record any program with
pool/billiards in their description, that occasionally leads to
swimming events, home fix-it programs or sit-coms but I can easily
delete them...
Regards,
Carter Adams
www.LeagueOperator.org
www.CartersBilliardsLibrary.com
poolp...@gmail.com
Sent from Fayetteville, GA, United States
On Oct 20, 5:12 pm, John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
> In article <hbkli9$59...@news.eternal-september.org>, jbste...@comcast.net
risky biz
Billy Incardona is an absolute motormouth and ruins the match. It's so bad
I turn off the sound. It's especially laughable when he gets into an
argumentative contest with a co-host trying to be first to guess what shot
the player is going to take next and being wrong about 40% of the time and
then arguing for the next four shots that the player chose the wrong shot.
> I think there has to be some
> other approach, one that brings up the level of knowledge of the
> spectators over time, and one that can talk simultaneously to both
> nonexperts and experts about the match, the tactics, and the individual
> shots. If something like poker can make for a good spectator sport on
> TV, then pool should be a piece of cake.
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard
------�
Jack Stein
> I have a Comcast DVR and a TiVo - The TiVo has MANY more features and
> a MUCH better UI than the Comcast DVR. The Comcast DVR will NOT let me
> set up POOL or BILLIARDSas a series -
YES, that's what I was trying to say. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
What is up with that? It sure doesn't help my conspiracy theories much.
Even with searches, sometimes it finds them, sometimes it doesn't.
I'm sure I missed a bunch of FoxSports events because I trusted the
search when it comes up empty. I now know I have to physically scan all
the time slots.
the TiVo lets me search for POOL or BILLIARDS as a keyword and
automatically
record any program with pool/billiards in their description, that
occasionally leads to
> swimming events, home fix-it programs or sit-coms but I can easily
> delete them...
This is good to know. I didn't even know if TiVo would work with
comcast. Do you need both the Comcast DVR and a TiVo? I kind of like
the Comcast thing because I rent it, and I beat the living shit out of
it, skipping not only commercials, but even in between shots on some of
the wimmin matches I've seen 22 times already, sort of editing on the
fly:-) I wouldn't be comfortable doing that with my own equipment, I
don't think... I have to say the sucker is holding up pretty darned
good though.
Last night I watched ESPNClassic match from 1999, Lee vs Lawrence.
Damn, were they playing bad, and that was only the good matches I guess.
They looked like APA 5's. Lee, one of my favorites, looked
particularly bad, (looking, not just playing) She looked like she just
stepped of the back of a Hells Angels Harley Hard Tail, and in a bad mood.
John Black
she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> In article <MPG.25481b626...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <ron-shepard-508A...@news60.forteinc.com>, ron-
> > she...@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> > > The "someone" were the sponsors for the men pro tour, the PBTA, and they
> > > "pissed off" these sponsors by suing them. That's why no one with any
> > > advertising money would get near them for the past decade, the potential
> > > sponsors don't want to be sued in court by their supposed partners. I
> > > guess you could blame Don Mackey for this because he was in charge of
> > > things at the time, but he did have the support of many, and perhaps
> > > even most (I don't know), of the PBTA players at the time. And when you
> > > combine this with the player behavior, such as throwing a tantrum and
> > > walking out of the middle of a televised final event, it really was a
> > > disaster.
> >
> > Can you give more details on this story? It sounds like a doozy and it
> > happened before I was paying attention to pool. Or point to where I can
> > read about these events?
>
> I did not see anything specific with a google search. I did find
> this thread over at azb.
>
> http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=157777
Thanks for finding this. I read the whole thing.
> Also, I know that most of this was reported as it played out in
> Billiards Digest, but it was over about a four year period, from
> 1994 to 1998.
>
> 1994 was when I think the biggest series of mistakes began. That
> was the summer that the major league baseball players went on
> strike. All the TV channels were desperately looking for filler
> material for time slots that were left empty from baseball games.
> If you look at RSB postings at the time, you will see us talking
> about ESPN shows with dogs catching frisbies. That's no joke, that
> really is what ESPN was putting on TV that summer. The PBTA should
> have had a cake walk, they should have been able to negotiate
> regular time slots, sponsors should have been falling out of trees
> courting them. It is cheap to cover pool matches, and little
> preparation is required. It was the perfect alignment of the
> planets for professional pool. There was some pool coverage then,
> and there was even a live tournament finals match between Earl
> Strickland and Efren Reyes (with Earl acting like an ass, as usual
> back then).
Here is part of a post from the azbilliards thread above explaining how Earl
managed to piss off their best sponsor. Man, what a fool.
=============
Earl quit because he was unhappy with Scott Smith's racking. Earl had just
won the last game and only trailed 5-4 in the Race To Eleven. Earl made
Scott rack over a few times and finally Scott told him to go ahead and break
the balls. Earl was still unhappy with the rack and broke down his cue and
walked out, to the astonishment of everyone.
This match paid 15K to the winner and 7.5K for second. Plus all the "bonus"
points. I think Earl was fined for forfeiting. He may have lost his prize
money or the bonus points for second place. Of that I'm not certain. He was
able to continue on the tour for the rest of the season. The main man from
Camel, Larry Kiger, was VERY unhappy about this whole situation. He had told
me prior to this event that Camel could easily double or triple the prize
money the following year. He never spoke about that again after Milwaukee!
==============
> But somehow every opportunity seems to slip away, both
> with sponsors and with TV coverage (network and cable). When summer
> was over and fall came around, the WPA world 9-ball championships
> where held in the US that year (back then they were trying to rotate
> it on a 3-year cycle with the US, Europe, and Asia -- 1994 and 1997
> would be the last two times the tournament was held on US soil).
> The 1994 tournament was yet another great possibility for pool to
> get some decent TV coverage, to showcase the best of the US players,
> and to show how they stacked up against the rest of the world. So
> what did Don Mackey and the PBTA do to take advantage of the timing
> of this tournament? They boycotted the world championship
> tournament! Mackey threatened sanctions against any PBTA player who
> played in the world championships that year.
I didn't see anything about this. Why did he boycott the world championship
tournament?
John Black
Carter Adams
...
>
> This is good to know. I didn't even know if TiVo would work with
> comcast. Do you need both the Comcast DVR and a TiVo?
No, you don't need the Comcast DVR but you would need a Comcast set-
top box or the TiVo with a "cable-card" if you're HD. I'm lagging in
the home entertainment arena. I have a hand-me-down 52"
Mitsubishi HD that a friend was getting rid of, and I've only had that
since February. My Comcast DVR is HD and the TiVo is SD. It's not a
big deal as I've seen most of the offerings and SD is fine. I was
thinking of getting a HD TiVo, but AT&T is in the process of deploying
their U-verse and it is "supposed" to be available in my area in a
month or two. It's already within a mile or so, so I'm optimistic that
it will be here soon. I'm waiting for that to happen before I make any
decisions on additional home entertainment equipment... Anyway, I have
my TiVo hooked up to a standard Comcast set-top box and the Comcast
DVR is on a different INPUT to the TV. This works fine for the time
being.
I kind of like
> the Comcast thing because I rent it, and I beat the living shit out of
> it, skipping not only commercials, but even in between shots on some of
> the wimmin matches I've seen 22 times already, sort of editing on the
> fly:-) I wouldn't be comfortable doing that with my own equipment, I
> don't think... I have to say the sucker is holding up pretty darned
> good though.
>
> Last night I watched ESPNClassic match from 1999, Lee vs Lawrence.
> Damn, were they playing bad, and that was only the good matches I guess.
> They looked like APA 5's. Lee, one of my favorites, looked
> particularly bad, (looking, not just playing) She looked like she just
> stepped of the back of a Hells Angels Harley Hard Tail, and in a bad mood.
Yes, I saw that match a while back. This was definitely before she was
groomed for the "next" sexy woman player - I will say that Eva looked
good then and still does now! Their play, however, was as you said -
just AWFUL!
For some reason, this made me think of another BIG complaint that I
have with the ESPN presentation. Allegedly, they do races to 7 to
"fit" in TV time-slots, when the prelims are races to 9 or 11. To me,
it's just plain DUMB to have the semis and finals - the most important
races - to be races to 7. Even with the races to 7, they very seldom
show the entire match - they still cut games or parts of games. I
think it would be MUCH better to have races to 9 or 11 or even 13 and
then show the 1st game, selected middle games, and then always the
last 2 or 3 games. Sorry for the rant, but I do feel better now.
~Carter
Jack Stein
I
> think it would be MUCH better to have races to 9 or 11 or even 13 and
> then show the 1st game, selected middle games, and then always the
> last 2 or 3 games.
Yes, like much of what they do with pool on TV, it makes no sense.
Sorry for the rant, but I do feel better now.
Rants are ok, this is usenet after all:-)
Now, here is yar (Yet Another Rant) from me. I was watching the final
match on Party Poker's World Masters Tournament on FSN last night. It
was really well done, good announcers (Mark Wilson I think was one of
the guys) and the match was two guys, Shane Van Boening vs Nick van den
Berg. Shane got destroyed, but I have no clue what year this was, I'm
thinking this year but really, who the hell knows, they make an effort
not to tell you who's playing, what year or anything else about the
match, other than it is a FINAL match in the titles.
Anyway, what the rant is about is the title in the menu was POOL and the
description was FINAL Match of the worlds masters... Problem was this
was a SEMIFINAL not the FINAL, and EVERY freaking match was described as
the FINAL match. I must have missed at least 3 of these matches
because I THOUGHT I had already recorded the FINAL match. One was Shane
beating up Archer, which I heard mentioned, but never got recorded.
Whomever is doing this stuff hates pool, and wants pool to fail on TV.
I want a piece of the little f..ker! I think it's coming from Comcast
though... who does the menus for these broadcasts? Anybody know?
--
Jack
Got Change: We will bury you! ========> Buried!
http://jbstein.com
Ron Shepard
John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
[regarding the Don Mackey/PBTA boycott of the 1994 WPA world
championship tournament...]
> I didn't see anything about this. Why did he boycott the world championship
> tournament?
I have forgotten. Anyone else remember?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Mark0
CONGRATULATIONS Ron!!!! This is the shortest reply you've ever made :D
--Mark0 <--reads every word of ALL of Ron's posts (really)
Ratchet
> On Oct 22 2009 5:57 PM, Ron Shepard wrote:
>
> > In article <MPG.2549930d5...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > John Black <jbl...@texas.net> wrote:
> >
> > [regarding the Don Mackey/PBTA boycott of the 1994 WPA world
> > championship tournament...]
> >
> > > I didn't see anything about this. Why did he boycott the world
> championship
> > > tournament?
>
>
> > I have forgotten. Anyone else remember?
> >
> > $.02 -Ron Shepard
>
> CONGRATULATIONS Ron!!!! This is the shortest reply you've ever made :D
>
>
>
> --Mark0 <--reads every word of ALL of Ron's posts (really)
>
ROTFLMAO ............
Tom S.- Believes Mark0 iis correct lol !!
______________________________________________________________________�
John Black
> On Oct 20 2009 5:12 PM, John Black wrote:
>
> snipped
>
> > Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from the US
> > but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and
> > others.
> >
> > John Black
>
> Hey John, I get the Fox sports feed out of Pittsburgh and I seldom if ever
> see any pool on it. Would please post dates and times if you get a chance
> to. I would love to watch/tape some Mosconi cup stuff.
After looking into this a little, I found out there are lots of Fox Sports
networks.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1636002#
I get FS Southwest on my cable being in Texas. I'm not sure how similar the
programming is on all of these. But just today I watched a nice match
between Nick Van Den Berg and Shane Van Boening from the World Pool Masters
tournament held in Vegas.
John Black
Mark0
Well I guess it just sucks to be me (still). I got nothin' like that at
all...
--Mark0
Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
_______________________________________________________________________�
John Black
> On Oct 25 2009 11:16 PM, John Black wrote:
>
> > In article <2kl3r6x...@recgroups.com>, markmc...@charter.net says...
> > > On Oct 20 2009 5:12 PM, John Black wrote:
> > >
> > > snipped
> > >
> > > > Do you get FSN (Fox Sports Net). They show men's pool. Nothing from
> the US
> > > > but still there a bunch of matches like Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool,
> and
> > > > others.
> > > >
> > > > John Black
> > >
> > > Hey John, I get the Fox sports feed out of Pittsburgh and I seldom if ever
> > > see any pool on it. Would please post dates and times if you get a chance
> > > to. I would love to watch/tape some Mosconi cup stuff.
> >
> > After looking into this a little, I found out there are lots of Fox Sports
> > networks.
> >
> > http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1636002#
> >
> > I get FS Southwest on my cable being in Texas. I'm not sure how similar the
> > programming is on all of these. But just today I watched a nice match
> > between Nick Van Den Berg and Shane Van Boening from the World Pool Masters
> > tournament held in Vegas.
> >
> > John Black
>
> Well I guess it just sucks to be me (still). I got nothin' like that at
> all...
Ok, check out this link. This shows when and where World Pool Masters
tournaments are broadcast. (FSN also covers several other tournaments too)
Click around on different days. It seems to be covered by all of the FSNs:
North, South, Southwest, Midwest, Rocky Mountain, Utah, Detroit, Florida,
Arizona Ohio etc. etc.
I just found Pittsburgh:
http://www.locatetv.com/tv/championship-billiards/6471310/schedule
John Black
Jack Stein
>>> Hey John, I get the Fox sports feed out of Pittsburgh and I seldom if ever
>>> see any pool on it. Would please post dates and times if you get a chance
>>> to. I would love to watch/tape some Mosconi cup stuff.
>> After looking into this a little, I found out there are lots of Fox Sports
>> networks.
I get FSN and I live in Pittsburgh, and they occasionally show pool. I
watched the same World Pool Masters tournament John Black did. The
problem is getting the DVR to find them, or the comcast search to find them.
>> http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1636002#
I went here and looked up Pittsburgh listing. They do not consider Pool
a sport, cause POOL ain't listed, contributing to my conspiracy theory.
> Well I guess it just sucks to be me (still). I got nothin' like that at
> all...
Well if you quit hankering for good pool coverage on the tube, er, flat
screen, you might try beach volley ball, thats covered.
Mark0
You are the BEST!!! Thanks for tracking that down for me. The link is
bookmarked in a place of honor in my "Pool" folder
John Black
> > I just found Pittsburgh:
> >
> > http://www.locatetv.com/tv/championship-billiards/6471310/schedule
> >
> > John Black
>
> You are the BEST!!! Thanks for tracking that down for me. The link is
> bookmarked in a place of honor in my "Pool" folder
Glad to help but keep in mind that bookmark tracks only that one tournament,
not all of the pool that will be shown on FSN.
John Black