Foul rules
Steve B
out" rule. I don't particularly like that, when they can push out, and if
you have a clear shot at one of your balls, but don't want it, you can let
him shoot again. He can leave you a nothing shot, but be in position for a
good one on his balls.
Then there's ball in hand on any foul, like nine ball.
And behind the line.
And using/not using the 8 ball on combinations, striking the 8 ball first.
And how many balls to spot during 8 ball? One if you scratch, one if you
make one and scratch plus one, all the ones you made during that one shot
that you fouled on plus one.
Is there a standard set of rules, or is it house rules, or is it what you
agree on before the game?
For me, eight ball, rotation, straight, and one pocket is behind the line.
Nine ball, ball in hand on ANY foul.
No using the 8 ball in combination shots when the cue ball contacts the
object ball first.
8 ball scratch, one, or one plus what you made on that shot.
Scratch on the 8, automatic loss. No contact with 8 ball, or contacting
object ball first considered a scratch.
Some others I can't think of right now, but is there a standard?
Steve
Ron Shepard
"Steve B" <desert...@dishmail.net> wrote:
> Is there a Hoyle's book for foul rules?
http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_summary
> I played a guy who used the "push
> out" rule. I don't particularly like that, when they can push out, and if
> you have a clear shot at one of your balls, but don't want it, you can let
> him shoot again. He can leave you a nothing shot, but be in position for a
> good one on his balls.
The push out rule is for 9-ball, where both players are shooting at the
same ball. It sounds like you are talking about 8-ball. I've never
heard of a push out rule being used in 8-ball, and it doesn't sound like
it would be a good rule there.
[...]
> Is there a standard set of rules, or is it house rules, or is it what you
> agree on before the game?
Yes, there is a standard set of rules, but the problem with 8-ball is
that every place seems to have its own rule variations. This is a
historical problem with 8-ball, it is nothing recent.
>
> For me, eight ball, rotation, straight, and one pocket is behind the line.
> Nine ball, ball in hand on ANY foul.
> No using the 8 ball in combination shots when the cue ball contacts the
> object ball first.
> 8 ball scratch, one, or one plus what you made on that shot.
> Scratch on the 8, automatic loss. No contact with 8 ball, or contacting
> object ball first considered a scratch.
>
> Some others I can't think of right now, but is there a standard?
Rules do change over time. The above set of rules looks a little
strange to me.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
gid...@rogers.com
> Ron Shepard wrote:
> >> For me, eight ball, rotation, straight, and one pocket is behind the line.
> >> Nine ball, ball in hand on ANY foul.
> >> No using the 8 ball in combination shots when the cue ball contacts the
> >> object ball first.
> >> 8 ball scratch, one, or one plus what you made on that shot.
> >> Scratch on the 8, automatic loss. No contact with 8 ball, or contacting
> >> object ball first considered a scratch.
>
> >> Some others I can't think of right now, but is there a standard?
>
> > Rules do change over time. The above set of rules looks a little
> > strange to me.
>
> Before now, I can't recall anyone else every playing that way.
Around here (Ontario), this notion of a "scratch" on the 8 ball
(including not hitting the 8-ball when it is "on") being a loss of
game is a very common "bar rule". Sometimes, the rule allows you to
call "just a shot" so that you can try to hit the 8 but not be
penalized for failure to hit the 8. This last variation is
particularly helpful when the 8-ball is behind the headstring (and
possibly blocked by one or more of the opponent's balls and the
opponent has "inadvertently" sunk the cue ball, thus giving you BIH
behind the headstring going forward.
I will echo Ron's comment regarding the infinate variations of "bar
rules". What I find particularly amuzing is that everyone seems to be
convinced that their own version of bar rules is the "real" version,
and everyone else is playing wrong or is cheating.
Regards,
Gideon
Steve B
<gid...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:596a22cb-72dc-456d...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Regards,
Gideon
And really bad when you are advised of them AFTER an infraction. Or
imagined infraction.
Steve
Steve B
"sittingduck" <du...@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CDE8B9BEDFD0du...@nomail.afraid.org...
> Steve B wrote:
>
>> Around here (Ontario), this notion of a "scratch" on the 8 ball
>> (including not hitting the 8-ball when it is "on") being a loss of
>> game is a very common "bar rule".
>
> that
> are seeking to prove otherwise.
> "Call shot" where you have to call a kiss off another ball, or even if you
> touch a rail on the way to a pocket are a perfect example.... perhaps they
> think that focusing on minute details somehow makes them "better".
>
> Taken to the extreme, why not just call it a loss of game if you miss? Not
> just the 8, but ANY BALL.
Some ahole was hassling me once for $5 a game. I kissed a rail on an
otherwise very good (and difficult) 8 ball shot. He claimed I missed, and
that I lost. I put $5 in the pocket, then took my cue on the thin end like
a baseball bat and put it on my shoulder. I guess you win, I said. He
left. Sometime you can be right, but it's not worth the hassle to collect.
And on the other hand, I've been stiffed by sore losers.
Steve
JakartaDean
> Around here (Ontario), this notion of a "scratch" on the 8 ball
> (including not hitting the 8-ball when it is "on") being a loss of
> game is a very common "bar rule". Sometimes, the rule allows you to
> call "just a shot" so that you can try to hit the 8 but not be
> penalized for failure to hit the 8. This last variation is
> particularly helpful when the 8-ball is behind the headstring (and
> possibly blocked by one or more of the opponent's balls and the
> opponent has "inadvertently" sunk the cue ball, thus giving you BIH
> behind the headstring going forward.
>
> I will echo Ron's comment regarding the infinate variations of "bar
> rules". What I find particularly amuzing is that everyone seems to be
> convinced that their own version of bar rules is the "real" version,
> and everyone else is playing wrong or is cheating.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gideon
God, how I *don't* miss Ontario 8-ball rules, or "Boston Ball" rules as
we used to call it. You forgot call everything, every minor contact
even a whiff of cushion on the way down the rail.
We get some English and Aussies through here, where everyone plays WPA
rules, who get irate and demand to play by the "real" or "proper" rules.
These usually involve two shots after a foul, but the rest of the
details are different from one guy to the next. As the bar league
referee for many years, when they ask "Who the hell wrote these stupid
rules?" I would politely say that I did, actually. That sometimes shuts
them up for a bit.
Dean
Ron Shepard
<596a22cb-72dc-456d...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
"gid...@rogers.com" <gid...@rogers.com> wrote:
> Sometimes, the rule allows you to
> call "just a shot" so that you can try to hit the 8 but not be
> penalized for failure to hit the 8.
I've never heard of this. But when it comes to obscure 8-ball
rules, you can always learn of a new one.
> This last variation is
> particularly helpful when the 8-ball is behind the headstring (and
> possibly blocked by one or more of the opponent's balls and the
> opponent has "inadvertently" sunk the cue ball, thus giving you BIH
> behind the headstring going forward.
In all other games that have cue ball in hand behind the headstring,
the shooter has the option to spot an object ball in this situation.
8-ball is the only game I've ever seen played without this option.
When combined with the 8-ball "house rule" that missing the 8-ball
is a loss of game, sometimes the best possible shot for the opponent
is to shoot the cue ball directly into a pocket. Of course, modern
8-ball rules all penalize fouls with ball-in-hand anywhere on the
table, so this situation does not arise.
Here is the current general rule (from 1.5) that covers this
situation:
"[...] When the shooter has the cue ball in hand behind the head
string and all the legal object balls are behind the head string, he
may request the legal object ball nearest the head string to be
spotted. If two or more balls are equal distance from the head
string, the shooter may designate which of the equidistant balls is
to be spotted. An object ball that rests exactly on the head string
is playable."
$.02 -Ron Shepard
Steve B
"Ron Shepard" <ron-s...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ron-shepard-7FF8...@forte.easynews.com...
Saw a guy who was severely hooked after his opponent broke make a $100 wager
that his opponent would not get another shot. The opponent took the bet
quickly slapping a Franklin on top of the one put on the table. The shooter
shot the 8 ball directly into the pocket.
Game over, and the opponent did not get another shot that game.
Steve
John Black
says...
> Saw a guy who was severely hooked after his opponent broke make a $100 wager
> that his opponent would not get another shot. The opponent took the bet
> quickly slapping a Franklin on top of the one put on the table. The shooter
> shot the 8 ball directly into the pocket.
>
> Game over, and the opponent did not get another shot that game.
This is great. I'll have to remember that one.
John Black
Mark0
First time I was in Vegas I played a Canadian who call 'just a shot' and I
screamed to high heaven that he'd fouled -- until he (and the ref I
screamed to -- who luckily for him was Canadian) said that that and 'safe'
were synonymous....
--Mark0 <--felt duped at the time
Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
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Mark0
When I saw this the proposer simply picked up the 8 with his hand and
dropped it in the hole....
--Mark0 <-- be my luck I'd miss the 8 if I had to shoot it
Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
_______________________________________________________________________�
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Ron Shepard
"Mark0" <markmc...@charter.net> wrote:
> > [...] Sometimes, the rule allows you to
> > call "just a shot" so that you can try to hit the 8 but not be
> > penalized for failure to hit the 8.[...]
>
> First time I was in Vegas I played a Canadian who call 'just a shot' and I
> screamed to high heaven that he'd fouled -- until he (and the ref I
> screamed to -- who luckily for him was Canadian) said that that and 'safe'
> were synonymous....
But with a safety, you would still have to hit the 8-ball, then send
a ball to a cushion, and so on. My reading of the above tells me
that on a "just a shot" you don't even have to hit the ball. Right?
$.02 -Ron Shepard
gid...@rogers.com
wrote:
> In article <6djiv6xlgj....@recgroups.com>,
To clarify:
In Canadian pool usage, "just a shot" is indeed a common term for a
safety. If playing in a real league or under some real rule set, you
would have to otherwise make a legal shot just as you would for any
safety (for example, you might call "just a shot" if you were going to
make one of your object balls at 8-ball but then going to give up your
turn).
However, the particular usage that I mentioned for "bar rules" is in
situations were you don't have any real rule set and are playing bar
rules, where the concept of fouls is usually fairly odd. For example,
if you are solids, failure to hit your solid is not usually subject to
any penalty, and no one would understand the need to hit a rail under
any circumstances. Sinking the cue ball may or may not be subject to
some penalty (such as the oppenent being able to put a striped ball
down - since you can't spot a sunk solid on a coin-op). Under that
rather odd rule set, however, sometimes failure to hit the 8 is a loss
of game, so perhaps to mitigate against that result, sometimes one is
allowed to call "just a shot", in which case failure to hit the 8 ball
is not a loss of game. Since there is no penalty for other fouls
(other than sinking the cue ball), there is no penalty for the failure
to hit the 8 and the game just continues.
It is actually quite interesting playing the "miss the 8 and lose"
rules, especially if "just a shot" is not an option. Particularly if
the table is full of your oppenents balls, you really have to make
sure that you will be able to make the 8 before attempting to sink
your last object ball!
Gideon