Racking
Steve B
ball, one in front, nine in the middle. I really don't spend a lot of time
on arranging anything else. I've seen guys spend five minutes arranging and
rearranging a rack.
Is there any advantage to racking balls, say with all one bype on the
corners, sides, end, or any other grouping? Seems to me they fly all over
random, anyway.
Unless you use the straight pool break and hit the back corner ball inside
top English, and try to bank it off the foot rail to the head corner pocket
on the same side.
On eight or nine ball, it wouldn't seem to matter, cause if you make
anything on the break, you get to shoot again.
Other than that, isn't it pretty random? Or should I take care on carefully
arranging the rack?
Steve
Ron Shepard
"Steve B" <desert...@dishmail.net> wrote:
> Other than that, isn't it pretty random? Or should I take care on carefully
> arranging the rack?
The WPA/BCA rules for 8-ball specify that the two corner balls should
belong to different groups.
In 9-ball, if you are spotting your opponent a ball (or several), then
neither player generally wants that ball to be pocketed on the break.
You don't want it pocketed on his breaks because it would be an
automatic win for him, he doesn't want it pocketed on your breaks
because it takes away his spot. Most people put these balls right
behind the 1-ball.
Depending on how you read the rules, it might even be illegal to place
the balls in a specific position in 9-ball. On the other hand, in some
tournaments the position of every ball is specified, and every rack in
the tournament is supposed to be racked that way.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
JakartaDean
I don't play much nine ball, and I've never played in a handicapped
league, so I never thought about that. I do recall Ewe Mattaya writing
that putting the two ball in the back of a nine ball rack would could
make the rack marginally more difficult.
I rack eight ball in a particular way, with all balls alternating except
two adjacent stripes in the back row. I know this is against the rules,
but I do it this way every time so there's no advantage either way. The
waitresses where I hang out do it this way also.
Third-world Dean <-- don't you guys have young women hanging around to
rack for you?
Jack Stein
> I rack eight ball in a particular way, with all balls alternating except
> two adjacent stripes in the back row. I know this is against the rules,
> but I do it this way every time so there's no advantage either way. The
> waitresses where I hang out do it this way also.
I do this as well, as do many players. What rules say this is not
allowed? WPA only says two corners must have high in one, low in the
other. Most rules don't even say that much.
9 ball pretty much says 1 and 9, every thing else random. A lot of
debate over what is meant by "random". I saw Buddy Hall specify the 9
ball rack should be in order, except for the 9. This was in a Florida
Pro Tourney. I thought that was strange. Anyway, by random do they
mean no specific order or any order you want? I say any order you want
because a truly random order would be a bear to pull off, and prove, and
what for, really?
--
Jack
Got Change: General Motors =======> Government Motors!
http://jbstein.com
gpsman
>
> Other than that, isn't it pretty random? Or should I take care on carefully
> arranging the rack?
<exit lurk mode>
My grandpa taught me to rack 8 ball like this when I was still
dragging a chair around the table. Still seems like a fairly random
solid/stripe arrangement to me.
http://i47.tinypic.com/mt6s95.jpg
I've never been a league player (subbed a few times, hated it).
For 9 ball, 1 on top, 9 in the middle. Money on the 5, it goes on
bottom.
-----
- gpsman
Ron Shepard
Jack Stein <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I rack eight ball in a particular way, with all balls alternating except
> > two adjacent stripes in the back row. I know this is against the rules,
> > but I do it this way every time so there's no advantage either way. The
> > waitresses where I hang out do it this way also.
>
> I do this as well, as do many players. What rules say this is not
> allowed? WPA only says two corners must have high in one, low in the
> other. Most rules don't even say that much.
If you alternate solids all the way around, which is fairly common
to see, then you end up with two solids on the back corners. This
is not a legal WPA/BCA 8-ball rack.
I think the APA rules specify only the position of the 8-ball, the
other balls can be racked anywhere. I agree with the original
poster that it doesn't matter much in 8-ball.
> 9 ball pretty much says 1 and 9, every thing else random. A lot of
> debate over what is meant by "random". I saw Buddy Hall specify the 9
> ball rack should be in order, except for the 9. This was in a Florida
> Pro Tourney. I thought that was strange.
Steve Tipton, the spokesman/promoter and tournament director for the
WPBA, racks the balls in a specified order every rack for 9-ball.
He says that he does not care if someone figures out how to break to
their advantage with this rack order because it is still fair to
both players regardless.
In rack-your-own 9-ball tournaments, Corey Deuel uses a specific
ball order that results in a fairly simple runout pattern rack after
rack. When he can get the head ball or one of the corner balls to
drop consistently with a controlled medium speed break, it is almost
boring to watch. However, for some reason, I think this might be
the way that god intended 9-ball to be played and that we all should
be mastering the game this way.
> Anyway, by random do they
> mean no specific order or any order you want? I say any order you want
> because a truly random order would be a bear to pull off, and prove, and
> what for, really?
The other question is which player gets to request a rerack based on
ball position, the breaker or the nonbreaker. If a neutral referee
is racking, then can one of the players request a specific order, or
does the referee get to make the choice?
My general feeling is that ball order is more important in 9-ball
than in 8-ball. In 9-ball if one rack order ends up requiring the
players to move the cue ball end-to-end more often, then that would
be tougher than when adjacent balls are all close to each other. If
one player gets one kind of rack and the other player gets the other
kind, then I do think that could make a difference in the match
outcome between strong players who need a good fraction of
break-and-runs to win.
To see the potential for ball placement in 9-ball, break a 9-ball
rack with the balls in a specific order and afterwards allow
yourself to exchange the positions of any of the balls on the table
except for the 9-ball and 1-ball. You will see that one set of
final positions might result in fairly easy runouts, while another
might result in more difficult ones. In a game situation, you would
want the easy ones and you would want your opponent to have the hard
ones of course. Then place the balls in that exchanged order before
the break shot and see how reliably you can break the balls and get
them to end up in that favorable position. I expect this is how
Corey developed his break and run pattern.
$.02 -Ron Shepard
John Black
says...
> When I rack, I put the one in front, and the eight in the middle. For nine
> ball, one in front, nine in the middle. I really don't spend a lot of time
> on arranging anything else. I've seen guys spend five minutes arranging and
> rearranging a rack.
Yeah, that's ludicrous. People try to alternate stripe and solid around the
whole rack. Waste of time. I put a stripe and solid on the back corners
(balls that travel most) and a stripe and solid under the 8 (balls that
travel least). That takes no extra time at all.
John Black
Jack Stein
> In article <hg0bhf$nhc$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Jack Stein <jbst...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> I rack eight ball in a particular way, with all balls alternating except
>>> two adjacent stripes in the back row. I know this is against the rules,
>>> but I do it this way every time so there's no advantage either way. The
>>> waitresses where I hang out do it this way also.
>> I do this as well, as do many players. What rules say this is not
>> allowed? WPA only says two corners must have high in one, low in the
>> other. Most rules don't even say that much.
>
> If you alternate solids all the way around, which is fairly common
> to see, then you end up with two solids on the back corners. This
> is not a legal WPA/BCA 8-ball rack.
Yeah, thats why he said alternating except the two adjacent stripes in
the back row. You end up with balls alternating except for two high
balls. I randomly change the position of the two high balls, sometimes
on the side, sometimes somewhere in the back row, normally, somewhere in
the back row.
> I think the APA rules specify only the position of the 8-ball, the
> other balls can be racked anywhere. I agree with the original
> poster that it doesn't matter much in 8-ball.
I don't know what the APA says, half their silly rules are ignored anyway.
>> 9 ball pretty much says 1 and 9, every thing else random. A lot of
>> debate over what is meant by "random". I saw Buddy Hall specify the 9
>> ball rack should be in order, except for the 9. This was in a Florida
>> Pro Tourney. I thought that was strange.
>
> Steve Tipton, the spokesman/promoter and tournament director for the
> WPBA, racks the balls in a specified order every rack for 9-ball.
> He says that he does not care if someone figures out how to break to
> their advantage with this rack order because it is still fair to
> both players regardless.
Hard to argue with that. A lot a guys would be spending 10 minutes
trying to get the balls in one exact order is about all I can say bad
about that idea.
> My general feeling is that ball order is more important in 9-ball
> than in 8-ball. In 9-ball if one rack order ends up requiring the
> players to move the cue ball end-to-end more often, then that would
> be tougher than when adjacent balls are all close to each other. If
> one player gets one kind of rack and the other player gets the other
> kind, then I do think that could make a difference in the match
> outcome between strong players who need a good fraction of
> break-and-runs to win.
I'm sure you are right, but for me, I have way more things to worry
about than rack order, like how the hell did I miss a bunny.... Again!
--
Jack
Got Change: 57 States, not counting Alaska and Hawaii!
http://jbstein.com
bk4...@hotmail.com
> In article <u8mbv6-kac....@news.infowest.com>, deserttra...@dishmail.net
> says...
>
> > When I rack, I put the one in front, and the eight in the middle. For nine
> > ball, one in front, nine in the middle. I really don't spend a lot of time
> > on arranging anything else. I've seen guys spend five minutes arranging and
> > rearranging a rack.
>
> Yeah, that's ludicrous. People try to alternate stripe and solid around the
> whole rack. Waste of time. I put a stripe and solid on the back corners
> (balls that travel most) and a stripe and solid under the 8 (balls that
> travel least). That takes no extra time at all.
>
> John Black
A while back I experimented for about an hour or so. My test was
racking all solids on one side of the rack. My completely
unscientific and subjective analysis is that is doesn't matter - much.
If someone has a poor break you will definitely notice a pattern of
one suit grouped in one area of the table. That might make it easier
to run one suit, assuming you make a ball on the break which you might
not with the weak break. But it also might not. But there was nearly
always a trouble ball or two regardless - just like normal.
For a good solid break up to a sledgehammer break, the balls would
spread into a pattern indistinguishable from a rack ordered
alternately solid/stripe.
So put a stripe in one corner, a solid in the other, and swing away.
It's random!
Bob Keller
M@man
> On Dec 12, 1:28 am, "Steve B" <deserttra...@dishmail.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Other than that, isn't it pretty random? Or should I take care on carefully
> > arranging the rack?
>
> <exit lurk mode>
>
> My grandpa taught me to rack 8 ball like this when I was still
> dragging a chair around the table. Still seems like a fairly random
>
> I've never been a league player (subbed a few times, hated it).
>
> For 9 ball, 1 on top, 9 in the middle. Money on the 5, it goes on
> bottom.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
money ball on the bottom eh? where can i get in this game?
1
38
596
42
7
that is how i was told a pro rack is racked---or a variation of it..
as long as the 4 and 2 are on the bottom of the 9---if you place the 2
opposite side from where the breakers breaks from---the 2 will stay at
the bottom of the table making the breaker have to go up and down the
table---try it, it works----
Fast Larry
in a circle and jerk each other off paising the jerker on your left.
None of you have a clue, and there is so much wrong here, I won't even
attempt to repair the damage you did to this subject.
If you really want to know, you won't get it here. Come to www.poolchat.net
and ask me there.
Money ball on the bottom, no no no, you do not want it going up table
with the 1, it will then be too easy to run to the 5, put it on the
next to the bottom, then it stays down table.
Always rack your own balls when you win. Insist on doing this. There
is one way to rack when you are breaking, another when the opponent
is, then you slug him into tamale.
Fast Larry
PatH
balls can't be the same type they must be a stripe and a solid. I
have heard an interesting theory about 8-ball racking and I don't know
if there is any merit to it or not. The theory being that if you're
opponent hits the 2nd ball back on his break there is an advantage in
racking the 6 first the 2nd row would be the 14 and the 10 and the 3rd
row would have the 2 on the same side as the ten. So the reason for
this is that the gaps between the balls may be harder to see if like
colors are racked together and the many men are at least a bit color
blind so the blues and greens are harder to see the gaps too. Sounds
like kind of a crock to me but it is novel.<G>
PatH
Steve B
<bk4...@hotmail.com> wrote
So put a stripe in one corner, a solid in the other, and swing away.
It's random!
Bob Keller
I did a rack last night with the one in front, a stripe and solid on row
two, 8 in the middle, then one stripe and one solid on the back corners.
That leaves 9 balls, and the way they're in the center of the rack, it seems
pretty random to me any way you go. Real quick, too.
BTW, I can't take credit for that, someone else suggested it, I just tried
it.
Steve
John Black
72adeb...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, bk4...@hotmail.com says...
> For a good solid break up to a sledgehammer break, the balls would
> spread into a pattern indistinguishable from a rack ordered
> alternately solid/stripe.
>
> So put a stripe in one corner, a solid in the other, and swing away.
> It's random!
Yeah, I don't doubt it.
John Black