is the cue supposed to touch the chin?
rafaelnorman
so low while shooting that he always brushes his chin with his cue.
This was the stance i imitated when i was just starting to play. But
in doing so i misjudged certain cut shots because of this very low
point of view. One night i followed the stance i read at some pool
book, which said that the head must be about one feet directly on top
of the cue. This must be an older shooting stance because i dont see
many professionals doing this (especially snooker players). But the
night i tried it, i was making near 90 degree cut shots. i even tried
shooting while almost upright and the balls just keep on going in.
this is probably because its easier to judge angles with an overhead
view. Now I aim while standing and then go low (chin 6 inches above
cue) to shoot.
which stance do you use? which stance is the correct one? am i
supposed to go really low when shooting long shots?
Jim Wyant
92ee1392.04060...@posting.google.com, "rafaelnorman"
<fakem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Theoretically, sighting down the line, as close to the line as possible, is
a good thing. For example, sight down the edge of a board to see the crown
- it is easier to see that with your eye just an couple of inches above the
board.
However, in pool you are usually using binocular vision (both eyes) and one
eye is generally dominant in seeing the line. If your chin is very close to
the cue and you are right eye dominant, you actually have a parallax view of
the target line; and that perception of angle changes as the length of the
shot varies. By getting higher above the cue, you are able to more easily
see the correct line.
The trick is to find (a) the right height, which also means being
comfortable, and (b) the relationship of your dominant eye to your sight
line.
It may be a case where Davis found his, and that's what he uses. Every
player is different. You still have to integrate what you found with your
comfort level in that stroke.
--Jim
predator
"rafaelnorman" <fakem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:92ee1392.04060...@posting.google.com...
First I would suggest to straighten that elbow/wrist/shoulder and get the
basic stroke with your ordinary stance working. Should you have any error in
that department, low snooker stance will only magnify it. That's because you
have slightly less space to work with...you might feel cramped first time
you try it. Because you're so low down, you might have difficulty seeing
beyond closed bridge...so forget about using it often if you want to use
such stance. Many players don't like it, it certainly isn't for everyone.
http://www.fcsnooker.co.uk/
- this site explains snooker technique in detail
- check it out, it is really good
I use that kind of style, and it's great once you get the hang of it...I
really like it a lot.
Higher stance on the other hand will give you better view of the angles,
cushions, ...etc. Kick shots and bank shots are also better judged with
slightly higher stance.
You will notice that many pool players use low snooker-like stance for
precision shooting, and then they switch to higher when they need to bank or
kick.
Unfortunately, there's no correct stance. Pool is a mixture of different
styles.
Your stroke should be as straight as possible with a nice follow through.
Whether you achieve that with snooker style or pool or carom or whatever is
irrelevant. If you can run a lot of balls, nobody can say that you're doing
something wrong.
rafaelnorman
to see shots, so one would not look stupid all the time)? to solve the
parallax view problem... would that work?
Steve.
> why not just close your non-dominant eye when shooting (only on tough
> to see shots, so one would not look stupid all the time)? to solve the
> parallax view problem... would that work?
Try shooting with one eye. Your depth perception is all screwed up,
that's why you must use both eyes. Though I've seen many people close
one eye to check clearance past another ball, I've never seen anybody
actually shoot with one eye closed.
Steve. <== Can miss with one or two eyes open.
William Lee
When you shoot a gun you look down the sights and line them up with the
target using only one eye.
I would seem that the same would apply to lining up a cue shaft.
Is using both eyes something your brain has learned to compensate for.
William Lee
"Steve." <rsb-asp...@s-c-ellis.com> wrote in message
news:54be6c92.04060...@posting.google.com...
Stephen
> Try shooting with one eye. Your depth perception is all screwed up,
> that's why you must use both eyes. Though I've seen many people close
> one eye to check clearance past another ball, I've never seen anybody
> actually shoot with one eye closed.
> Steve. <== Can miss with one or two eyes open.
Don't forget that Joe Davis was blind in one eye and he managed to get a
few balls down. He shot under his good eye but recommended two-eyed
folks shoot in the middle with the cue brushing the chin.
Stephen
Steve Ellis
>Good question ....
>When you shoot a gun you look down the sights and line them up with the
>target using only one eye.
I was going to mention that, the difference is the proximity of the target. The
stereoscopic vision isn't as neccessary at that range. Besides I believe the preferred way
to target shoot is with both eyes open if you can, kind of ignoring the non-aiming eye. At
least that was what I was taught in an ROTC shooting club back in the dark ages. Of
course, we were shooting with flintlocks back then, but that's another story. ;-)
Steve.
bonham15
> Good question ....
> When you shoot a gun you look down the sights and line them up with the
> target using only one eye.
> I would seem that the same would apply to lining up a cue shaft.
> Is using both eyes something your brain has learned to compensate for.
>
> William Lee
odd, when they taught me how to shoot a gun, i had both eyes open, one on
the scope and one out.
andy
RWMCT
warm up, then go up a little, as if to orient himself as to the proper height.
My recollection is that another strong player had one eye that was quite a bit
stronger than the other and used to aim primarily with that eye, so his chin
was not centered over the shaft. Whatever works for you.
Bob
> Don't forget that Joe Davis was blind in one eye and he managed to get a
> few balls down.
As is Niels and he shoots pretty sporty.
Bob
David Malone
<rsp...@RemoveThiss-c-ellis.com> wrote:
>Besides I believe the preferred way
>to target shoot is with both eyes open if you can, kind of ignoring the non-aiming eye.
Depends what you're shooting with. Olympic 3-position event match
target rifles or even air-rifles use 'peep' sights which use a
micrometer-adjustable circular rear sight and a circular front sight
mounted in a tube. It's actually not possible to use both eyes (I
guess you could leave the non-dominant eye open, but in fact many
shooters modify their shooting glasses so there is a flap over the
non-dominant eye). I shot 3 position, prone, and sporting rifle for
many years and I always close one eye.
Of course, if you're plinking with Daddy's old Winchester .22 short
with the open sights at the dump trying to kill rats or squirrels,
you'd use both eyes... And with the flint-lock, I'd recommend closing
BOTH eyes... (grin).
David "The Hamster" Malone
Mike Page
rw...@aol.com (RWMCT) wrote:
Getting down low is awkward for many people, either because they're tall
or because they're heavy or because they're not agile or simply because
they're unaccustomed to it.
Here is a caution about the chin thingy.
I've watched a few players around here who have been advised to get
lower--to get their chin just above the stick. And they've done it. I
see them consciously do it. But if you watch closely, they do it by
meeting in the middle: they lower their chin toward the stick, and they
raise their stick toward their chin.
In the choice between level stick and chin-on-stick, level stick wins.
So for the people who have tried to adopt a lower stance, watch out for
this. I think one useful way to check out how level you really are is
to take a few practice sessions for which you modify your pre-shot
routine such that when you get down into position, you
(1) lower the stick as much as possible, actually letting the stick rest
on the rail if there are no intervening balls,
(2) get your head into position (chin touching, chin a few inches
above--whatever you like), and
(3) raise stick and chin enough to get an unimpeded stroke.
Run all 8
>> why not just close your non-dominant eye when shooting (only on tough
>> to see shots, so one would not look stupid all the time)? to solve the
>> parallax view problem... would that work?
>
>Try shooting with one eye. Your depth perception is all screwed up,
>that's why you must use both eyes. Though I've seen many people close
>one eye to check clearance past another ball, I've never seen anybody
>actually shoot with one eye closed.
>Steve. <== Can miss with one or two eyes open.
there must have have been some great one eye players out there?...I heard the
name patch eye willie around here...(south jersey)...so one eye or two...you
can make it work........
Steve Ellis
I presume this is true though I've never been aware of watching any. However, I don't
think anybody should choose to shoot with only one eye if they have 2 available.
Steve.
JAM
Shannon Daulton shoots with one dominant eye.
I'm not sure about a Patch-Eye Willie, but there's a Patch-Eye from Philly, an
African-American gentleman who most likely is in his seventies by now. I saw
him at the last two DCC's.
The side-armed player said Jimmy King is the best one-eyed player he's ever
seen.
JAM
Jack Stein
> Good question ....
> When you shoot a gun you look down the sights and line them up with the
> target using only one eye.
That is with a rifle, since resting the rifle on your nose and chin to
aim and then shooting would not feel very good. Hand guns often are
aimed centered and with both eyes, and I believe someone said once that
hand gun target shooters have the exact same arguments over dominant eye
issues as we do here.
> I would seem that the same would apply to lining up a cue shaft.
> Is using both eyes something your brain has learned to compensate for.
I think so, otherwise walking through doorways with both eyes open would
be dangerous:-)
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
Jack Stein
> Depends what you're shooting with. Olympic 3-position event match
> target rifles or even air-rifles use 'peep' sights which use a
> micrometer-adjustable circular rear sight and a circular front sight
> mounted in a tube. It's actually not possible to use both eyes (I
> guess you could leave the non-dominant eye open, but in fact many
> shooters modify their shooting glasses so there is a flap over the
> non-dominant eye).
What if they are cross dominant? Do they shoot cross handed, or learn
to shoot aiming with the flap over the dominant eye?
> I shot 3 position, prone, and sporting rifle for
> many years and I always close one eye.
Are you shooting at a moving target? Is there a difference between
methods when shooting at say a rabbit or deer, as hunters have told me
both eyes should be open when aiming. Also, do people all sight with
one eye with hand guns as all do with rifles? I think rifles pose no
options as it would be difficult, if not impossible to aim with the gun
on your shoulder and your chin centered on the barrel. I've seen (on
TV) people aim hand guns with both hands on the gun, arms fully
extended, and centered between the eyes. I don't exactly know how
people do it in real life target shooting?
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
David Malone
wrote:
>What if they are cross dominant? Do they shoot cross handed, or learn
>to shoot aiming with the flap over the dominant eye?
Don't know. I've seen people shoot left or right handed which may be
the reason. Most right handed shooters tend to use their right eye.
>Are you shooting at a moving target?
No. Paper targets.
>Is there a difference between
>methods when shooting at say a rabbit or deer, as hunters have told me
>both eyes should be open when aiming.
If you use an open sight or a shotgun you would normally have both
eyes open ge. skeet. If you're using a scope for longer range hunting,
you'd use one eye only.
>Also, do people all sight with
>one eye with hand guns as all do with rifles?
I'm no expert on taraget shooting with hand-guns. I shot small-bore
pistol (.22 long rifle) for a while with a Ruger bull barrel. In that
case both eyes were open.
Maybe there's a hand-gun expert out there somewhere?
David "The Hamster" Malone
David Malone
>there must have have been some great one eye players out there?
I imagine your brain would adjust to the situation and apart from some
depth perception limitations due to loss of binocular vision you
should be able to shoot almost as well with one eye as with two.
Our neighbor had one glass eye. He was a pretty good guy.... used to
keep an eye out for us kids.
David "The Hamster" Malone
Jack Stein
>>What if they are cross dominant? Do they shoot cross handed, or learn
>>to shoot aiming with the flap over the dominant eye?
> Don't know. I've seen people shoot left or right handed which may be
> the reason. Most right handed shooters tend to use their right eye.
Does that mean some right handed shooters use their left eye? I would
think that would be impossible.
>>Also, do people all sight with
>>one eye with hand guns as all do with rifles?
> I'm no expert on taraget shooting with hand-guns. I shot small-bore
> pistol (.22 long rifle) for a while with a Ruger bull barrel. In that
> case both eyes were open.
>
> Maybe there's a hand-gun expert out there somewhere?
You would think someone on RSB is a hand gun expert, or a cop trained to
shoot handguns. I wonder if it's true that they have the same dominant
eye issues as pool shooters? I really think the rifle aiming argument
is meaningless as far as pool aiming or dominant eye sighting is
concerned. There is little choice when shooting a rifle. A hand gun
however leaves the possibility of shooting left, right or centered, just
as pool does, so would be more pertinent I think.
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
Fast Larry Guninger
HI THIS IS FAST LARRY, SIR, IN ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU DID NOT CUT A BALL
90 DEGREES, THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, NOBODY CAN DO THIS. If the object
ball must travel more than two feet, that cut can not be made. Most
cut shots players think are 90 are actually between 75 to 78 degrees.
You cannot make a shot beyond 78, that is your limit. I have done
82-83, but I am a world champion at this kind of stuff. I am a staff
writer on the world wide internet magazine www.cuezine.com and I
should have a video up soon there of me shooting the cue ball on the
green spot, and cutting the black in the bottom left corner on a 6x12
snooker table into 3 l/2" pockets. You will swear this is a 90 degree
cut, but it is 78.
Sir, your cue does not have to be on your chin, Mosconi did the high
run of 526 balls from a very up right position, all the greats played
up right, Fats, Greenleaf, Hoppe and all the current billiard stars
are all very upright,so that is proof, low is not necessary. I teach
a variety of positions depending on the shot, that just low all the
time is dead ass wrong, especially when I must pot and swing around 3
rails for shape. On that shot I look like Raymound Cuelemans. If I am
doing a long cut, I then look like Steve Davis.
How to aim, look at the pros, one is aiming between the eyes down the
nose, one is off the left eye, the other off the right eye, most have
the nose across the cue at a 45 degree angle, what does that tell you,
that is can be done many different ways, you must experiment to find
which one is best for you. Most right handed players are right eye
dominate.
The Power Source Traveling Pool School. to see my web page come alive
click http://www.fastlarrypool.com
Best Wishes,
Fast Larry Guninger
William Lee
Fast Larry Guninger
> Hello Fast Larry and welcome to RSB..
>
> William Lee
>
>
> "Fast Larry Guninger" <fast...@bellsouth.net> wrote
Why thank you Mr.Lee, my middle name is Lee. I normally shoot most
shots with my cue about 4-8" off my chin, this allows me to get low
and to also shoot with a fairly level cue. Lock the chin on the cue
and you are shooting jacked up, no way possible to see and be level.
If you are not totally playing nothing but center ball you are in
trouble. I lock the cue against my tit, not my chin, which achieves
the same thing, a stable repeating move that is the same every time,
but allows me a higher field of vision.
Best Wishes,
Fast Larry
Donald Tees
I have always found a combnation to be best. I shoot with chin close to
the cue, but I never ain that way. I get my line while upright, get my
feet set while upright, and line up my cue while upright. THEN I get
down over the ball to shoot.
Donald